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Author Topic: AMHash1: Cost-Effective Mining Contract  (Read 303383 times)
HarmonLi
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February 05, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
 #1881

At least FC is squeezing the competition a bit. I'm afraid though: Compared to, say, KNC and Bitfury, we're the next ASIC/cloud-mining company that would go down if this streak continues. Well, at least AM has access to own hardware and can continue to self-mine. I don't think a depressed BTC price will kill them necessarly.

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thevictimofuktyranny
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February 05, 2015, 10:49:47 PM
 #1882

At least FC is squeezing the competition a bit. I'm afraid though: Compared to, say, KNC and Bitfury, we're the next ASIC/cloud-mining company that would go down if this streak continues. Well, at least AM has access to own hardware and can continue to self-mine. I don't think a depressed BTC price will kill them necessarly.

Price may around this level all of 2015 and only the block halving in 2016 will cause it to increase Roll Eyes

Looking at the network hashpower, it looks like all the 1watt and 1.2watt mining equipment (some may be farms) is still functional, even when it is not switched on for mining Shocked

Whenever, the BTC prices goes above $220 these farms and equipment are switched on - mine some BTC and immediately convert it into Fiat Currency, which causes the price to head back downwards below $219.

Therefore, their is still 362PTHs network hashpower, but it is only switched off when BTC is a below certain price benchmarks.

Around 362PTHs around $245 plus
Around 310 PTHs around $220 plus
Around 250 PTHs around $200 plus

Consequently, network difficulty will have to be held around 41500000000 right up to the block halving in mid 2016 Shocked

Obviously, when the block reward is halved mid 2016, the 1watt and 1.2watt mining equipment will need BTC price of $400 before being switched on, so price will definitely climb alot Grin  Wink
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February 06, 2015, 03:04:37 PM
 #1883

At least FC is squeezing the competition a bit. I'm afraid though: Compared to, say, KNC and Bitfury, we're the next ASIC/cloud-mining company that would go down if this streak continues. Well, at least AM has access to own hardware and can continue to self-mine. I don't think a depressed BTC price will kill them necessarly.

Price may around this level all of 2015 and only the block halving in 2016 will cause it to increase Roll Eyes

Looking at the network hashpower, it looks like all the 1watt and 1.2watt mining equipment (some may be farms) is still functional, even when it is not switched on for mining Shocked

Whenever, the BTC prices goes above $220 these farms and equipment are switched on - mine some BTC and immediately convert it into Fiat Currency, which causes the price to head back downwards below $219.

Therefore, their is still 362PTHs network hashpower, but it is only switched off when BTC is a below certain price benchmarks.

Around 362PTHs around $245 plus
Around 310 PTHs around $220 plus
Around 250 PTHs around $200 plus

Consequently, network difficulty will have to be held around 41500000000 right up to the block halving in mid 2016 Shocked

Obviously, when the block reward is halved mid 2016, the 1watt and 1.2watt mining equipment will need BTC price of $400 before being switched on, so price will definitely climb alot Grin  Wink


I don't know if it really matters that much which hardware is being used to mine the coins. If the price rebounds big time, also the people using 1.2W/GH/s equipment and above will wait to sell. The block reward will be factored in before it actually takes place, that means the price will go up before the halving happens!

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February 06, 2015, 04:20:20 PM
 #1884

At least FC is squeezing the competition a bit. I'm afraid though: Compared to, say, KNC and Bitfury, we're the next ASIC/cloud-mining company that would go down if this streak continues. Well, at least AM has access to own hardware and can continue to self-mine. I don't think a depressed BTC price will kill them necessarly.

Price may around this level all of 2015 and only the block halving in 2016 will cause it to increase Roll Eyes

Looking at the network hashpower, it looks like all the 1watt and 1.2watt mining equipment (some may be farms) is still functional, even when it is not switched on for mining Shocked

Whenever, the BTC prices goes above $220 these farms and equipment are switched on - mine some BTC and immediately convert it into Fiat Currency, which causes the price to head back downwards below $219.

Therefore, their is still 362PTHs network hashpower, but it is only switched off when BTC is a below certain price benchmarks.

Around 362PTHs around $245 plus
Around 310 PTHs around $220 plus
Around 250 PTHs around $200 plus

Consequently, network difficulty will have to be held around 41500000000 right up to the block halving in mid 2016 Shocked

Obviously, when the block reward is halved mid 2016, the 1watt and 1.2watt mining equipment will need BTC price of $400 before being switched on, so price will definitely climb alot Grin  Wink


I don't know if it really matters that much which hardware is being used to mine the coins. If the price rebounds big time, also the people using 1.2W/GH/s equipment and above will wait to sell. The block reward will be factored in before it actually takes place, that means the price will go up before the halving happens!

These people already have Bitcoins at the exchanges. When the price hits certain prices point they sell down Roll Eyes

The equipment is switched on to replace the sold value of Bitcoins Shocked

Bitcoins price will go up next year in advance of the Block Halving for sure, but not this year Tongue

Litecoin is having it's 1st Block Halving this August and DRK is looking very undervalued this year;)

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February 07, 2015, 09:18:43 AM
 #1885

i want to withdraw btc but google 2fa fails what should i do
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February 07, 2015, 11:04:19 AM
 #1886

i want to withdraw btc but google 2fa fails what should i do

sync. your clock
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February 07, 2015, 02:44:15 PM
 #1887

I have a ticket from 31.01 and no answer until now and also sent email to alex few days ago and no answer.
Please if someone from team can check and solve.
Thank you.
BR.
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February 07, 2015, 05:48:15 PM
 #1888

At least FC is squeezing the competition a bit. I'm afraid though: Compared to, say, KNC and Bitfury, we're the next ASIC/cloud-mining company that would go down if this streak continues. Well, at least AM has access to own hardware and can continue to self-mine. I don't think a depressed BTC price will kill them necessarly.

Price may around this level all of 2015 and only the block halving in 2016 will cause it to increase Roll Eyes

Looking at the network hashpower, it looks like all the 1watt and 1.2watt mining equipment (some may be farms) is still functional, even when it is not switched on for mining Shocked

Whenever, the BTC prices goes above $220 these farms and equipment are switched on - mine some BTC and immediately convert it into Fiat Currency, which causes the price to head back downwards below $219.

Therefore, their is still 362PTHs network hashpower, but it is only switched off when BTC is a below certain price benchmarks.

Around 362PTHs around $245 plus
Around 310 PTHs around $220 plus
Around 250 PTHs around $200 plus

Consequently, network difficulty will have to be held around 41500000000 right up to the block halving in mid 2016 Shocked

Obviously, when the block reward is halved mid 2016, the 1watt and 1.2watt mining equipment will need BTC price of $400 before being switched on, so price will definitely climb alot Grin  Wink


while i hope your logic is correct i got 1 thing to say ............ 2016 is so far away i want the block halving to happen now lol, i hope amhash is around for 2016

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February 07, 2015, 06:02:16 PM
 #1889

Had to do some of the macros for someone on another thread, thought you'd like have a look at it DARKANGEL6415:

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

This would require $161,739,130 this year up front, plus not a single old unit must be decommissioned, however at 44 billion difficulty most of the old 1.2 watt units had to shut off  Grin

Therefore, if difficulty doubled, most 1 watt units would have to be shut down and therefore another $161 million would be needed to replace them as well; net $322 million up front costs  Shocked

Current Bitcoin price $225 makes this level of new investment impossible, because the profits per Bitcoin are insufficient to fund such investments.

Annual production of BTC this year value at current prices (3600 times $225 times 365 days) $295,650,000.

Most Bitcoins are never available to buy, under 30% reach the open Fiat Currency exchanges, which will be under $88,695,000 to fund hardware, labor and electricity costs. Nowhere, near close enough to fund the doubling of network hashpower.

QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

And

It is a clever piece of macro economics included in Bitcoins and other crypto currencies, to increase difficulty you have to increase capital expenditures up front. This is very cheap at the beginning of the process of establishing a crypto currency, but it becomes ever more expensive as doubling of difficulty reoccurs. Therefore, people can accurately forecast the future difficulty on the basis of price expectations.  Roll Eyes

And, yeah this implies manufacturers like AMhash will be there in 2016 Wink
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February 07, 2015, 06:26:21 PM
 #1890

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

That's a major flaw in your argument. The next generation of 28nm ASICs from ASICMiner, BitFury and Sponddooies all promising less than 0.2 J/gh will be available soon. All those companies have 16nm plans (as does KNC which has apparently already taped out) for later this year as well. Those 16nm ASICs are expected to use around 0.05 J/Gh making them 10x more efficient than an S5.

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February 07, 2015, 06:52:40 PM
 #1891

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

That's a major flaw in your argument. The next generation of 28nm ASICs from ASICMiner, BitFury and Sponddooies all promising less than 0.2 J/gh will be available soon. All those companies have 16nm plans (as does KNC which has apparently already taped out) for later this year as well. Those 16nm ASICs are expected to use around 0.05 J/Gh making them 10x more efficient than an S5.



 What the hell though, if  thevictimofuktyranny says bitcoin diff stays below 50 billion for the rest of this year, who am I to argue?  I'm going to start loading up on AMHash shares and Asicminer Prisma 2.0s  //QED  LMFAO
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February 07, 2015, 07:03:21 PM
 #1892

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

That's a major flaw in your argument. The next generation of 28nm ASICs from ASICMiner, BitFury and Sponddooies all promising less than 0.2 J/gh will be available soon. All those companies have 16nm plans (as does KNC which has apparently already taped out) for later this year as well. Those 16nm ASICs are expected to use around 0.05 J/Gh making them 10x more efficient than an S5.



Electricity only accounts for 30% of the price of mining a Bitcoin in the USA  (10 cent a watt) Tongue

Electricity only accounts for 9% of the price of mining a Bitcoin in Iceland (3 cent a watt) Tongue

For a Bitcoin Farm in Iceland using mining equipment using 0.7Watts per 1GHs; new equipment producing at 0.2 per a watt represents a saving on electricity bills of only 6.48%.

Therefore, for the cost of Bitcoin Farm in Iceland, the electricity bill will come down to just 2.52%, but this is not really worth investing in tonnes of new mining equipment even if it is mining at 0.2Watts per 1GHs and these are insufficient savings to generate doubling of the Bitcoin network hashpower Cheesy

In the USA, even 22.5% reduction in the electricity bill, only makes it worth replacing ancient 1.2Watt and 1Watt mining units and maybe some of the 1Watt units Shocked

Earlier calculations showed these units are switched off automatically when BTC price is under $220 and difficulty is 44 billion. Therefore, it will be a straight swapover for miners and it guarantees a BTC price of between $200 to $250 all the way into the Block Halving in 2016.

However, the savings on each Bitcoin mined is insufficient to double network hashpower.

You see, at a sub-$230 price for Bitcoins such electricity savings are marginal factors on ROI. If, like last year Bitcoin price was between $300 to $500 per a Bitcoin, I would agree with you that the network difficulty would be guaranteed to double Wink

Have you ever heard of macro economic rule of "diminishing returns" on ongoing use of old knowledge, like more efficient ASIC silicon Grin

 
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February 07, 2015, 07:15:24 PM
 #1893

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

That's a major flaw in your argument. The next generation of 28nm ASICs from ASICMiner, BitFury and Sponddooies all promising less than 0.2 J/gh will be available soon. All those companies have 16nm plans (as does KNC which has apparently already taped out) for later this year as well. Those 16nm ASICs are expected to use around 0.05 J/Gh making them 10x more efficient than an S5.



Electricity only accounts for 30% of the price of mining a Bitcoin in the USA  (10 cent a watt) Tongue

Electricity only accounts for 9% of the price of mining a Bitcoin in Iceland (3 cent a watt) Tongue

For a Bitcoin Farm in Iceland using mining equipment using 0.7Watts per 1GHs; new equipment producing at 0.2 per a watt represents a saving on electricity bills of only 6.48%.

Therefore, for the cost of Bitcoin Farm in Iceland, the electricity bill will come down to just 2.52%, but this is not really worth investing in tonnes of new mining equipment even if it is mining at 0.2Watts per 1GHs and these are insufficient savings to generate doubling of the Bitcoin network hashpower Cheesy

In the USA, even 22.5% reduction in the electricity bill, only makes it worth replacing ancient 1.2Watt and 1Watt mining units and maybe some of the 1Watt units Shocked

Earlier calculations showed these units are switched off automatically when BTC price is under $220 and difficulty is 44 billion. Therefore, it will be a straight swapover for miners and it guarantees a BTC price of between $200 to $250 all the way into the Block Halving in 2016.

However, the savings on each Bitcoin mined is insufficient to double network hashpower.

You see, at a sub-$230 price for Bitcoins such electricity savings are marginal factors on ROI. If, like last year Bitcoin price was between $300 to $500 per a Bitcoin, I would agree with you that the network difficulty would be guaranteed to double Wink

 

 Why don't you post this in the speculation (or /dev/null) thread where it (sort of) belongs?
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February 07, 2015, 07:37:21 PM
 #1894

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

That's a major flaw in your argument. The next generation of 28nm ASICs from ASICMiner, BitFury and Sponddooies all promising less than 0.2 J/gh will be available soon. All those companies have 16nm plans (as does KNC which has apparently already taped out) for later this year as well. Those 16nm ASICs are expected to use around 0.05 J/Gh making them 10x more efficient than an S5.



Electricity only accounts for 30% of the price of mining a Bitcoin in the USA  (10 cent a watt) Tongue

Electricity only accounts for 9% of the price of mining a Bitcoin in Iceland (3 cent a watt) Tongue

For a Bitcoin Farm in Iceland using mining equipment using 0.7Watts per 1GHs; new equipment producing at 0.2 per a watt represents a saving on electricity bills of only 6.48%.

Therefore, for the cost of Bitcoin Farm in Iceland, the electricity bill will come down to just 2.52%, but this is not really worth investing in tonnes of new mining equipment even if it is mining at 0.2Watts per 1GHs and these are insufficient savings to generate doubling of the Bitcoin network hashpower Cheesy

In the USA, even 22.5% reduction in the electricity bill, only makes it worth replacing ancient 1.2Watt and 1Watt mining units and maybe some of the 1Watt units Shocked

Earlier calculations showed these units are switched off automatically when BTC price is under $220 and difficulty is 44 billion. Therefore, it will be a straight swapover for miners and it guarantees a BTC price of between $200 to $250 all the way into the Block Halving in 2016.

However, the savings on each Bitcoin mined is insufficient to double network hashpower.

You see, at a sub-$230 price for Bitcoins such electricity savings are marginal factors on ROI. If, like last year Bitcoin price was between $300 to $500 per a Bitcoin, I would agree with you that the network difficulty would be guaranteed to double Wink

 

 Why don't you post this in the speculation (or /dev/null) thread where it (sort of) belongs?


Ok, post me the thread link then, I not going out of my way to find it Grin

I have AMhash Gen 3 direct and shares in AMhash1 at Havelock Grin
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February 07, 2015, 08:22:35 PM
 #1895

Had to do some of the macros for someone on another thread, thought you'd like have a look at it DARKANGEL6415:

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

This would require $161,739,130 this year up front, plus not a single old unit must be decommissioned, however at 44 billion difficulty most of the old 1.2 watt units had to shut off  Grin

Therefore, if difficulty doubled, most 1 watt units would have to be shut down and therefore another $161 million would be needed to replace them as well; net $322 million up front costs  Shocked

Current Bitcoin price $225 makes this level of new investment impossible, because the profits per Bitcoin are insufficient to fund such investments.

Annual production of BTC this year value at current prices (3600 times $225 times 365 days) $295,650,000.

Most Bitcoins are never available to buy, under 30% reach the open Fiat Currency exchanges, which will be under $88,695,000 to fund hardware, labor and electricity costs. Nowhere, near close enough to fund the doubling of network hashpower.

QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

And

It is a clever piece of macro economics included in Bitcoins and other crypto currencies, to increase difficulty you have to increase capital expenditures up front. This is very cheap at the beginning of the process of establishing a crypto currency, but it becomes ever more expensive as doubling of difficulty reoccurs. Therefore, people can accurately forecast the future difficulty on the basis of price expectations.  Roll Eyes

And, yeah this implies manufacturers like AMhash will be there in 2016 Wink

wow awsome i actually enjoyed the read and i even felt a little bit of a tingle of joy as i read this and looked at the numbers. Now granted not all old units will be shut off i know someone who runs a few dozen jalapenos miners. He does this at his college housing where the power and internet are all free since you pay for them in college price. Maybe amhash will find cheaper power or maybe havelock will get cheaper rent or taxes meaning lower fees lol  Grin

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February 07, 2015, 08:46:40 PM
Last edit: February 07, 2015, 09:44:34 PM by thevictimofuktyranny
 #1896

Had to do some of the macros for someone on another thread, thought you'd like have a look at it DARKANGEL6415:

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

This would require $161,739,130 this year up front, plus not a single old unit must be decommissioned, however at 44 billion difficulty most of the old 1.2 watt units had to shut off  Grin

Therefore, if difficulty doubled, most 1 watt units would have to be shut down and therefore another $161 million would be needed to replace them as well; net $322 million up front costs  Shocked

Current Bitcoin price $225 makes this level of new investment impossible, because the profits per Bitcoin are insufficient to fund such investments.

Annual production of BTC this year value at current prices (3600 times $225 times 365 days) $295,650,000.

Most Bitcoins are never available to buy, under 30% reach the open Fiat Currency exchanges, which will be under $88,695,000 to fund hardware, labor and electricity costs. Nowhere, near close enough to fund the doubling of network hashpower.

QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

And

It is a clever piece of macro economics included in Bitcoins and other crypto currencies, to increase difficulty you have to increase capital expenditures up front. This is very cheap at the beginning of the process of establishing a crypto currency, but it becomes ever more expensive as doubling of difficulty reoccurs. Therefore, people can accurately forecast the future difficulty on the basis of price expectations.  Roll Eyes

And, yeah this implies manufacturers like AMhash will be there in 2016 Wink

wow awsome i actually enjoyed the read and i even felt a little bit of a tingle of joy as i read this and looked at the numbers. Now granted not all old units will be shut off i know someone who runs a few dozen jalapenos miners. He does this at his college housing where the power and internet are all free since you pay for them in college price. Maybe amhash will find cheaper power or maybe havelock will get cheaper rent or taxes meaning lower fees lol  Grin

Yeah, Genesis Mining managed to get a 40% reduction from their electricity suppliers in Iceland in December 2013, which they passed on their customers Shocked

Because, electricity costs in Iceland are such a small part of a Bitcoin Farm's outlay, Genesis Mining Dividend only increased by 5%. The majority of cost of cloudmining in Iceland is based on mining equipment outlay (Genesis SHA256 is around 0.5watt per 1GHs), facilities and labour. Nearly forgot, the manufacturers profit margin Wink

Perhaps, AMhash can do the same, it is all about whether they did a long fixed price electricity deal or a shorter fixed price contract when they finished building their new Bitcoin Farm in October 2013 Shocked

Of course, these are private business matters and it would be pure speculation say anything about non-public deals done by the manufacturers for cloudmining their offerings Roll Eyes
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February 07, 2015, 10:14:09 PM
Last edit: February 07, 2015, 10:38:10 PM by thevictimofuktyranny
 #1897

Just as a comparison, if you bought a Bitman S5 today as a newbie miner.

S5 is $413
PSU is $110
Raspberry Pi $56
Postage $23

Location USA, 10 cent per a watt.
Average difficulty 12 months 47 billion
BTC average price $225 over 12 months.

ROI is 14.28 months. Block Halving is in 18 months Cheesy

Older miners, may have an existing PSU (11.28 months) or existing PC/Raspbery Pi (12.85 months) or both (10.28 months).

Currently, if you pop over to Havelock and buy some AMHASH1, on these identical variables you're looking at a 7-8 month ROI.  

Units producing at 0.2watts per 1GHs are unlikely to out before June this year; you'd have made back most of your investment before difficulty rises towards 49.99 billion. Also, a lot of GPU manufacturers and CPU manufactuerers suffered 4-6 months delays when they went to 16nm fabrication (poor silicon yields equaled delays) Wink

Additionally, (these are highly speculative estimates) because this is guessing at non-public information:

1.2watts per 1GHs 50PTHs is swtiched off, but still setup to be switiched on if BTC price rises.
1.2 watts per 1GHs 60PTHs is in locations were electricity is 9 cent per watt and switches off when difficulty passes 44 billion.

1watt per 1ghs will be switched off at a difficulty of 47.1 billion onwards. This is speculation, but about 160PTHs of this network hashpower is here.

0.7watt per 1ghs will be switched off at difficulty of 67.3 billions onwards. This stuff is quite new and there is about 80GHs of it on the network.
 
So, there are significant obstacles in place to halt rises in network difficulty Grin
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February 08, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
 #1898

Another big diff. increase about to hit

Estimated Next Difficulty:   44,283,751,397 (+7.30%)
Adjust time:   After 207 Blocks, About 1.3 days

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February 08, 2015, 05:49:00 AM
 #1899

Just as a comparison, if you bought a Bitman S5 today as a newbie miner.

S5 is $413
PSU is $110
Raspberry Pi $56
Postage $23

Location USA, 10 cent per a watt.
Average difficulty 12 months 47 billion
BTC average price $225 over 12 months.

ROI is 14.28 months. Block Halving is in 18 months Cheesy

Older miners, may have an existing PSU (11.28 months) or existing PC/Raspbery Pi (12.85 months) or both (10.28 months).

Currently, if you pop over to Havelock and buy some AMHASH1, on these identical variables you're looking at a 7-8 month ROI.  

Units producing at 0.2watts per 1GHs are unlikely to out before June this year; you'd have made back most of your investment before difficulty rises towards 49.99 billion. Also, a lot of GPU manufacturers and CPU manufactuerers suffered 4-6 months delays when they went to 16nm fabrication (poor silicon yields equaled delays) Wink

Additionally, (these are highly speculative estimates) because this is guessing at non-public information:

1.2watts per 1GHs 50PTHs is swtiched off, but still setup to be switiched on if BTC price rises.
1.2 watts per 1GHs 60PTHs is in locations were electricity is 9 cent per watt and switches off when difficulty passes 44 billion.

1watt per 1ghs will be switched off at a difficulty of 47.1 billion onwards. This is speculation, but about 160PTHs of this network hashpower is here.

0.7watt per 1ghs will be switched off at difficulty of 67.3 billions onwards. This stuff is quite new and there is about 80GHs of it on the network.
 
So, there are significant obstacles in place to halt rises in network difficulty Grin


Great math and calculations but did you factor into that at these difficulties most cloud mining contracts and the average user will end however it does not mean the miners will be shutdown since their maintenance fees are usually much lower.
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February 08, 2015, 07:10:59 AM
 #1900

Announcement of The Spring Festival Holiday

Dear Customers,

We will pause the transaction and dividends of AMHash from 10th February  to 28th February on havelock for The Spring Festival Holiday coming.And we will restart all those things in the beginning of March.

AMHash Team

AMHash
ASICMINERROCKMINER ● Purchase from: AMHash (20Th/s min) ● Havelock (1Gh/s min)
Cloud-mining contracts: 0.0012 BTC per Gh ● Maintenance fee: $0.001551 per Gh per day ● Upto 6% Christmas Bonus

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