Sending bitcoins without miner fees

[Berau]

So I have seen a few people sending bitcoins without any miner fees, and their amount eventually got sent back after a week or so.

So, what do you think the technique(or tips) for sending bitcoins without miner fees would be? This would be really helpful for sending small amounts less than BTC0.001 since the transaction fee would be more than 10% of the real amount transferred.

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[1714812557]

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[shorena]

So I have seen a few people sending bitcoins without any miner fees, and their amount eventually got sent back after a week or so.

Thats bc.i specific behaviour, coins dont "get send" back usually.

So, what do you think the technique(or tips) for sending bitcoins without miner fees would be? This would be really helpful for sending small amounts less than BTC0.001 since the transaction fee would be more than 10% of the real amount transferred.

Inputs of 1 Bitcoin with 144 confirmations (~1 day) typically have a high enough priority to be used in a transaction with a single output to be confirmed in a reasonable amount of time. Thus if you want to spend 0.001, just wait 1000 days, pay the fee or use an off chain system like changetip.

[redsn0w]

The minimum fee required for send a tx in the new bitcoin core is 1'000 satoshi, I think with 1k  as fee your bitcoin will be confirmed in less than 30 minutes (try and report here your test with the transaction id).

[Berau]

So I have seen a few people sending bitcoins without any miner fees, and their amount eventually got sent back after a week or so.

Thats bc.i specific behaviour, coins dont "get send" back usually.

So, what do you think the technique(or tips) for sending bitcoins without miner fees would be? This would be really helpful for sending small amounts less than BTC0.001 since the transaction fee would be more than 10% of the real amount transferred.

Inputs of 1 Bitcoin with 144 confirmations (~1 day) typically have a high enough priority to be used in a transaction with a single output to be confirmed in a reasonable amount of time. Thus if you want to spend 0.001, just wait 1000 days, pay the fee or use an off chain system like changetip.

Uhhh... Say I was sending 10 BTC, am I going to only wait 1/10 of a day?

The minimum fee required for send a tx in the new bitcoin core is 1'000 satoshi, I think with 1k  as fee your bitcoin will be confirmed in less than 30 minutes (try and report here your test with the transaction id).

I think the guys I was talking about used blockchain.info.

[randy8777]

Inputs of 1 Bitcoin with 144 confirmations (~1 day) typically have a high enough priority to be used in a transaction with a single output to be confirmed in a reasonable amount of time. Thus if you want to spend 0.001, just wait 1000 days, pay the fee or use an off chain system like changetip.

what if a wallet contains many small (~5k sat) payouts. how long will it take for them to have high enough priority?
last time i sent some of these coins to an exchange and it had low priority while i had 0.0001 fee included.
the coins were at least a week in my wallet before sending.

[Berau]

Inputs of 1 Bitcoin with 144 confirmations (~1 day) typically have a high enough priority to be used in a transaction with a single output to be confirmed in a reasonable amount of time. Thus if you want to spend 0.001, just wait 1000 days, pay the fee or use an off chain system like changetip.

what if a wallet contains many small (~5k sat) payouts. how long will it take for them to have high enough priority?
last time i sent some of these coins to an exchange and it had low priority while i had 0.0001 fee included.
the coins were at least a week in my wallet before sending.

Probably 1000 days? I doubt you'll get more than 20 small payouts from faucets...

[randy8777]

Inputs of 1 Bitcoin with 144 confirmations (~1 day) typically have a high enough priority to be used in a transaction with a single output to be confirmed in a reasonable amount of time. Thus if you want to spend 0.001, just wait 1000 days, pay the fee or use an off chain system like changetip.

what if a wallet contains many small (~5k sat) payouts. how long will it take for them to have high enough priority?
last time i sent some of these coins to an exchange and it had low priority while i had 0.0001 fee included.
the coins were at least a week in my wallet before sending.

Probably 1000 days? I doubt you'll get more than 20 small payouts from faucets...

in total 8 faucet payouts and 3 normal (less than 0.01) received transactions.
it took over 10 blocks to get a single confirmation while the fee was 0.0001.

[shorena]

So I have seen a few people sending bitcoins without any miner fees, and their amount eventually got sent back after a week or so.

Thats bc.i specific behaviour, coins dont "get send" back usually.

So, what do you think the technique(or tips) for sending bitcoins without miner fees would be? This would be really helpful for sending small amounts less than BTC0.001 since the transaction fee would be more than 10% of the real amount transferred.

Inputs of 1 Bitcoin with 144 confirmations (~1 day) typically have a high enough priority to be used in a transaction with a single output to be confirmed in a reasonable amount of time. Thus if you want to spend 0.001, just wait 1000 days, pay the fee or use an off chain system like changetip.

Uhhh... Say I was sending 10 BTC, am I going to only wait 1/10 of a day?

~14.4 blocks, yes its linear.

-snip-
what if a wallet contains many small (~5k sat) payouts. how long will it take for them to have high enough priority?
last time i sent some of these coins to an exchange and it had low priority while i had 0.0001 fee included.
the coins were at least a week in my wallet before sending.

Every input has to mature on its own. The more inputs you use the bigger the transaction gets and the higher the priority has to be in order to get away without fee. Keep in mind that miners typically only reserve 50 kbyte in a block for TX without fee. A fee must also be high enough in comparison to the size in bytes. The typical rule of thumb is 10k satoshi per every 1000 bytes. Thus if your transaction is bigger than 1000 byte the fee would be 0.0002 after this rule. Its not perfect, but its a pretty good estimate.

-snip-
in total 8 faucet payouts and 3 normal (less than 0.01) received transactions.
it took over 10 blocks to get a single confirmation while the fee was 0.0001.

Payouts from faucets are a different beast because they are typically very small. I recently helped[1] someone with >2000 inputs and total amount of ~0.5 BTC from faucets. It took some years to gather that much and I had to pay ~0.01 BTC in fees to move the coins. It also took several seperate transactions. This might sound odd, but the best way to spend funds from faucets is to combine them with bigger inputs.

E.g. if you have an input of 1 BTC that is confirmed for 1 day (or longer) and an input of 1 satoshi you can use both and send them to yourself. The next day you take the big input with another small input, etc. This will take some time, but it would allow you to fuse all inputs into a single big one over time without the need to pay a fee.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=970041.msg10603746#msg10603746

[zetaray]

Don't send small amounts with zero fee. They confirm because of luck. Send small amounts with 0.00001 fee is a much safer solution.

[DarkHyudrA]

Don't send small amounts with zero fee. They confirm because of luck. Send small amounts with 0.00001 fee is a much safer solution.

Its no luck, it's how much "old" is the input to be spent.
It's clearly said on the wiki, that the fee is a multiplier to the priority given to your transaction to make sure it gets a block sooner.

But as someone said, use a wallet that you can configure yourself the miner fee and pay something like 100 or 1k satoshis, that will help a lot to get the first confirmation sooner.

[caga]

Yeah, best thing to do is not send such small amounts. I really don't see why people would want to send something as small as a cent.
And the on;y place I can see this being required are faucets.

[zetaray]

Don't send small amounts with zero fee. They confirm because of luck. Send small amounts with 0.00001 fee is a much safer solution.

Its no luck, it's how much "old" is the input to be spent.

The wiki also says sending small amounts below 0.01 cannot be a free transaction. Age is not a factor for small amounts. They confirm because of luck.

[randy8777]

Every input has to mature on its own. The more inputs you use the bigger the transaction gets and the higher the priority has to be in order to get away without fee. Keep in mind that miners typically only reserve 50 kbyte in a block for TX without fee. A fee must also be high enough in comparison to the size in bytes. The typical rule of thumb is 10k satoshi per every 1000 bytes. Thus if your transaction is bigger than 1000 byte the fee would be 0.0002 after this rule. Its not perfect, but its a pretty good estimate.

-snip-
in total 8 faucet payouts and 3 normal (less than 0.01) received transactions.
it took over 10 blocks to get a single confirmation while the fee was 0.0001.

Payouts from faucets are a different beast because they are typically very small. I recently helped[1] someone with >2000 inputs and total amount of ~0.5 BTC from faucets. It took some years to gather that much and I had to pay ~0.01 BTC in fees to move the coins. It also took several seperate transactions. This might sound odd, but the best way to spend funds from faucets is to combine them with bigger inputs.

E.g. if you have an input of 1 BTC that is confirmed for 1 day (or longer) and an input of 1 satoshi you can use both and send them to yourself. The next day you take the big input with another small input, etc. This will take some time, but it would allow you to fuse all inputs into a single big one over time without the need to pay a fee.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=970041.msg10603746#msg10603746

that explains it. didn't know about the 10k sat fee per 1kb transaction size.
next time i will add a higher fee for this kind of transactions.
cheers.

[countryfree]

So I have seen a few people sending bitcoins without any miner fees, and their amount eventually got sent back after a week or so.

So, what do you think the technique(or tips) for sending bitcoins without miner fees would be? This would be really helpful for sending small amounts less than BTC0.001 since the transaction fee would be more than 10% of the real amount transferred.

My experience of successful transactions without a fee were over one BTC. It's against the rules to make smallish transactions without a fee.

[Q7]

Actually I won't suggest you do that. Sending without a fee will probably cause the transaction to get stuck for days. If you are really serious about bitcoin, the least you could do is to support the network and add the fee to pay for the miners' work. Does 0.1mbtc which amounts to less than 5 cents going to make any difference?

[cramved]

I think that it would work but it would take a long time. My friend was telling me that people would get mad at him because on his site people would send to it with no transaction fee and then blame him for the coins not showing up on the site.

[Furio]

Actually I won't suggest you do that. Sending without a fee will probably cause the transaction to get stuck for days. If you are really serious about bitcoin, the least you could do is to support the network and add the fee to pay for the miners' work. Does 0.1mbtc which amounts to less than 5 cents going to make any difference?

People say this, yet I never ever ever experienced it. When I don't pay miner's fee, 2 hours has been the max for me. I do have to say, I rarely do so now, but in the beginning only, the little bitcoin I had, I didn't want to spend more than neccesary

[dothebeats]

So I have seen a few people sending bitcoins without any miner fees, and their amount eventually got sent back after a week or so.

So, what do you think the technique(or tips) for sending bitcoins without miner fees would be? This would be really helpful for sending small amounts less than BTC0.001 since the transaction fee would be more than 10% of the real amount transferred.

Though you can send coins without fees, it is not advisable as it will put the transaction in the low-priority bracket, usually taking a couple of days (or even weeks in some instances) to be completed. And also, removing the fees in a transaction is not that good as it will lessen the incentive the miners receive for processing and computing for the whole block.

[GigaBit]

What??  Just pay the miner's fee, ya cheap fucking bastard!

Usually, people who make threads like this, is because, well, it was accidental, forgot to pay it.

Happened to me once and took 3-4 hours; it was also accidental and was enraged with my own lack of attention.

You also have to make sure you leave your wallet opened until you get the first confirmation.

Bitcoin's too slow, so you have to pay to get prioritized.

If you want both speed and cheap Tx's use AltCoins; that's why they're there, for cheaper and busier people.

Bitcoin's a rich person's game now it seems, if you can't afford to move the money, that's just lunacy.

Like paying $2 on a money order to pay a $0.99 bill.

In Gold mining, you often need to pay 10% commission for the wash & assayer or invest more for the equipment.

This falls under Costs of Doing Business.

If you can't afford to move Bitcoin, use another coin where Tx's fees are a fraction of Bitcoin's.

There, I gave you the solution if you worry about the pennies of Tx fees you give someone to help put food on their table.

Don't wonder why you can't afford the Tx fees, karma's a bitch and she found you.

So I have seen a few people sending bitcoins without any miner fees, and their amount eventually got sent back after a week or so.

So, what do you think the technique(or tips) for sending bitcoins without miner fees would be? This would be really helpful for sending small amounts less than BTC0.001 since the transaction fee would be more than 10% of the real amount transferred.

Though you can send coins without fees, it is not advisable as it will put the transaction in the low-priority bracket, usually taking a couple of days (or even weeks in some instances) to be completed. And also, removing the fees in a transaction is not that good as it will lessen the incentive the miners receive for processing and computing for the whole block.

If you understand the economy, you're wasting your time in this forum trying to explain it.

That's why more fortunes have been lost than made on this forum, no one understand shit about shit and think they know it all.

[Amph]

i've send bitcoin without the fees, but it never come back, in the end it get through, but it takes much longer(2-3 hours in my case)