Greece now targets tax evaders! next step cyprus style!

[thejaytiesto]

Greece had to choose between go out of euro and create their own money (with huge inflaction) or stay in euro accepting the conditions. Syriza choosed euro, so they should work more and talk less.

Syriza, like some said they are buying time and waiting for other similar-minded parties to win in other countries to create more pressure against Troika. If even then Troika keeps pressing them i see a realistic scenareo where a lot of south euro countries leave.

[countryfree]

I don't fear a contagion, yet, but it's terrible solving that Greek problem takes so much time. The longer it takes to cure, the longer the recovery.

[Kakmakr]

I think they are buying time and hoping for another bailout from another country. They should sell some of their assets and be done with it. They are so far in debt and beyond the point where anything can be done to save them.
The government sold them out and they are stuck with the bill. ^very sad^

[aso118]

From the news:

    "In this position, to give the most bankrupt of any state the biggest credit in history, like third class corrupt bankers, was a crime against humanity," said Varoufakis, according to a German translation of his comments.

Strangely enough, this hasn't stopped the current Greek government from demanding still more financial aid and concessions from the EU. Although they are at least as bankrupt today as they were back then…

They have nothing to lose by asking for more credit.
It is a dangerous game of chicken (finding out who blinks first) being played by Greece, as they know that a Greek default would have wide spread consequences.

[lyth0s]

Well they should have been targeting their tax evaders this whole time. One could even argue that if the people of Greece actually paid the taxes that they owed that it could have at least postponed their inevitable bankruptcy.....


Now a Bail-in aka "hair cut" would be a completely different situation, that could start turning first world countries to cryptocurrencies as a safe haven for wealth.

[Erdogan]

Well they should have been targeting their tax evaders this whole time. One could even argue that if the people of Greece actually paid the taxes that they owed that it could have at least postponed their inevitable bankruptcy.....


Now a Bail-in aka "hair cut" would be a completely different situation, that could start turning first world countries to cryptocurrencies as a safe haven for wealth.

The greeks will be protected from hunger, because they have a large blue market.

[countryfree]

Well they should have been targeting their tax evaders this whole time. One could even argue that if the people of Greece actually paid the taxes that they owed that it could have at least postponed their inevitable bankruptcy.....

How many tax evaders are there in Greece?
Considering no one with a fixed salary can do it, only business owners can. So how many successful business managers are there in the whole Greece?
Not many, I guess.

They're just an bunch a losers trying to hide their global failure behind the curtain of a few black sheep, but Greece's problems are much larger than a few people evading tax.

[GreenStox]

Their problem is far more vast than tax evasion, corruption is rampant also.

Guys you have no idea on corruption. Corruption is a good thing because it takes away the resources (money) from the government to do evil stuff.

Politicians are always thieves so dont blame them.

But an efficient government is your worse nightmare, because then the government has total control over the population and thus its total tyrrany.


I`d much rather have an utterly corrupt govenrment where politicians steal and loot all they get (they do that anyways) instead of having a stalinist-dictatorship with total surveillance and population control. 

Of course no government is the best.

[minerbit hill]

Just my thought, although they have not done this yet but maybe they are waiting for the right time. Who knows

[bitboy11]

I think any government should target tax evaders!
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Of course on the other side of the spectrum, tax evaders will find a friend in Bitcoin.

[Q7]

Yeah, the fact is that you can have it nice stashed away, probably with only a small chance of somebody finding out about it. And I just wonder why the tax evaders haven't really figure that out. Or maybe they did, it's just that the scare of price volatility actually turned them away. I imagine if this doesn't become problem, bitcoin would be an attractive way to hide the stash. 

[cellard]

Merkel no longer controls the process. Greece never should have gone into the deal, but more importantly, they were given an exchange rate far better than reality at the time. If the rate were an accurate assessment of their economy, though, they would not do it and that is not what Germany and France wanted.

[leopard2]

From the news:

    "In this position, to give the most bankrupt of any state the biggest credit in history, like third class corrupt bankers, was a crime against humanity," said Varoufakis, according to a German translation of his comments.

Strangely enough, this hasn't stopped the current Greek government from demanding still more financial aid and concessions from the EU. Although they are at least as bankrupt today as they were back then…

varoufakelakis is basically saying: you left your car unattended, so it is YOUR fault I stole it

it is not greeces fault to borrow lots of money they cannot pay back, and enjoy sweet life, it is the BANKS and EU's fault to lend out that money

just shows how morally broken this country is. 

[dinofelis]

From the news:

    "In this position, to give the most bankrupt of any state the biggest credit in history, like third class corrupt bankers, was a crime against humanity," said Varoufakis, according to a German translation of his comments.

Strangely enough, this hasn't stopped the current Greek government from demanding still more financial aid and concessions from the EU. Although they are at least as bankrupt today as they were back then…

varoufakelakis is basically saying: you left your car unattended, so it is YOUR fault I stole it

it is not greeces fault to borrow lots of money they cannot pay back, and enjoy sweet life, it is the BANKS and EU's fault to lend out that money

just shows how morally broken this country is.  

In fact it is both, of course.   Debt has nothing to do with morality.  Debt is worth what the creditor can enforce to obtain.  As such, as a creditor you take a certain risk by writing out a loan.  If you do not know how to enforce paying back, then the risk is all yours.  There are two parts to "enforcing to pay back":
1) there must be something that can be paid back.  If the other one is broke, there's nothing to be taken
2) there must be enough force to convince the other to pay it back (or you have to go and take it with force).

If those two conditions are not satisfied, as a creditor, you're a dumb ass, and your losses are your "rightly risk".

As a debtor, you should pay back your debt, if it is advantageous to you.  Otherwise, you don't.  This means that the creditor has means to make life actually worse when you don't pay back your debt, rather than when you do. If your creditor doesn't have those means of pressure, you better don't pay back your debt.
Of course, another part of "life is worse when you do not pay back" is your credit worthiness. If you don't pay back your debts, you will have more and more difficulties making new creditors believe you will.  So not paying back also costs you some reputation as a debtor.

As a debtor, you should make the balance between all that before deciding to pay back or not (at least, if you can).

A loan is a gamble: the gamble by the creditor that the debtor will pay back.

[leopard2]

From the news:

    "In this position, to give the most bankrupt of any state the biggest credit in history, like third class corrupt bankers, was a crime against humanity," said Varoufakis, according to a German translation of his comments.

Strangely enough, this hasn't stopped the current Greek government from demanding still more financial aid and concessions from the EU. Although they are at least as bankrupt today as they were back then…

varoufakelakis is basically saying: you left your car unattended, so it is YOUR fault I stole it

it is not greeces fault to borrow lots of money they cannot pay back, and enjoy sweet life, it is the BANKS and EU's fault to lend out that money

just shows how morally broken this country is.  

In fact it is both, of course.   Debt has nothing to do with morality.  Debt is worth what the creditor can enforce to obtain.  As such, as a creditor you take a certain risk by writing out a loan.  If you do not know how to enforce paying back, then the risk is all yours.  There are two parts to "enforcing to pay back":
1) there must be something that can be paid back.  If the other one is broke, there's nothing to be taken
2) there must be enough force to convince the other to pay it back (or you have to go and take it with force).

If those two conditions are not satisfied, as a creditor, you're a dumb ass, and your losses are your "rightly risk".

As a debtor, you should pay back your debt, if it is advantageous to you.  Otherwise, you don't.  This means that the creditor has means to make life actually worse when you don't pay back your debt, rather than when you do. If your creditor doesn't have those means of pressure, you better don't pay back your debt.
Of course, another part of "life is worse when you do not pay back" is your credit worthiness. If you don't pay back your debts, you will have more and more difficulties making new creditors believe you will.  So not paying back also costs you some reputation as a debtor.

As a debtor, you should make the balance between all that before deciding to pay back or not (at least, if you can).

A loan is a gamble: the gamble by the creditor that the debtor will pay back.

I agree with you as long as a private debtor is involved. However when the debtor is public, in this case a country, the game changes. Because the creditor has no means at  all to get the money back. Should Germany now invade Greece and collect? What if the USA does not pay their debt back?

Of course the creditors to Greece were dumbasses, they were politicians!

The debtor Greece has plenty of equity: gas fields, gold reserves and LOTS OF ISLANDS they could sell to pay off the debt. Crete alone would fetch the 320 billions owed. However Greece is dishonest and dishonorable to the bone, that they expect a debt cut instead of paying back the money they were given! 

[manselr]

This is uncharted waters for Greece. They knew joining the Euro Union would fill the pockets of corrupt 'established ' officials in Government.. the pockets have been filled ...now these corrupt people can walk away knowing full well that Nationalism can cover their corrupt past... Job well done...

[dinofelis]

I agree with you as long as a private debtor is involved. However when the debtor is public, in this case a country, the game changes. Because the creditor has no means at  all to get the money back. Should Germany now invade Greece and collect? What if the USA does not pay their debt back?

Of course the creditors to Greece were dumbasses, they were politicians!

In fact, you said it all

But you are entirely right that there is something absurd in a state being a debtor.  After all, contracts are enforced by a state (or by cryptography.... ).  So how can a state be a debtor ?  How can a state make a contract with another state, or a foreign private entity ?  Who's going to enforce the contract ?  In the end, indeed, it is up to the other country to take up arms and to enforce its due... but then, why should they stop taking when they have collected their due ?

Moreover, the big problem with a state being a debtor is that a state can in principle (it being the local violence monopolist) extort its entire population - usually called taxes.  So yes, if you are having possessions in a certain state, if that state takes on a foreign loan, your possessions are at potential danger to be used as a collateral.

The problem with the Greek state is that most of its rich people possess ships.  They are not present on the territory of the state

[GreenStox]

This is uncharted waters for Greece. They knew joining the Euro Union would fill the pockets of corrupt 'established ' officials in Government.. the pockets have been filled ...now these corrupt people can walk away knowing full well that Nationalism can cover their corrupt past... Job well done...

It's collectivism. Nationalism its just a facade of collectivism. The leftist socialist crap is the exact same as the right-wing rabid nationalist sentiment.

So there is only 1 side in statism: the collective, which manifests itself in either leftist socialist or right winged nationalist, and alternating between these 2 whenever the other 1 fucks it up.

So in reality this left-right crap is an illusion, there is only 2 real sides: slavery or freedom, and to tell you the collective is not freedom

[nazar83]

))))))))))))))))))) it is matchless