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Author Topic: In support of genjix  (Read 5174 times)
flatfly
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August 03, 2012, 12:44:16 PM
Last edit: August 03, 2012, 06:11:04 PM by flatfly
 #1

In the whole Bitcoinica fiasco, it seems that the angry mobs are directing their ire at genjix and zhoutong, while the other Intersango guys (the CEO & CTO, no less!!!) haven't even made any attempt to communicate professionally with their customers.

On the other hand, neither genjix nor zhoutong apparently had a major role in Bitcoinica in the last few months of its existence, yet they have been the most reponsive to customers.

To my knowledge, no evidence exists to support the theory that genjix had any malicious intent. I'm sure anyone who has met him in person can vouch for his openness and dedication to Bitcoin projects.

Don't know about you guys, but to me it seems that the youngest two kids in the bunch have been thrown to the wolves.
 
Let's act and think rationally, not based on emotions.

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waspoza
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August 03, 2012, 12:53:41 PM
 #2

+1
memvola
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August 03, 2012, 01:02:43 PM
 #3

genjix is one of the coolest guys in the community. He has been involved in open source projects and has been an activist before and outside of Bitcoin, which is pretty much proof of his character. None of the developments had any direct ties with him, other than him being part of the organization. He's been the only person who's been open, and I'm sure he would've been even more open out of principle if not restrained by other obligations. I wish he had been more vigilant about the affairs others were dealing with, which might have prevented most of the fiasco, but I'm sure the organizational structure prevented him from being so, and hindsight is always 20/20.
lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)
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August 03, 2012, 01:20:24 PM
 #4

I met genjix before, so I might be biased. However, I also have not gotten any of my money back from Bitcoinica, so hopefully that would counteract the bias.

Based on the postings genjix made regarding Bitcoinica, he did not have access to the funds. Please consider that if not anything else.

On a somewhat lighter note, kindly note that genjix, unlike someone else, did not demand "fucking respect" from complaining customers.
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August 03, 2012, 01:29:21 PM
 #5

Of course I dont think he had any malicious intent, however..

In my opinion, as long as he is not working on the priority (which is involving himself on the bitcoinica mess) he can do better.

For example, compiling & saving and checking / finishing the claims ? Forcing his intersango mates to act ?

That doesnt mean of course that Donald and Patrick are doing any better, far from it.

I wont even comment on the fact that he leaked the sources.

As long as this issue is not solved in a satisfactory manner for the creditors, I would say that he deserves the heat.

-----

If I am thinking rationnaly any person involved with the bitcoinica fiasco should work actively towards helping the creditors. Thats a matter of both personnal image, responsability and professionnalism.

That doesnt mean that you cant take a few days off, but all others major projects should be put aside.

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August 03, 2012, 01:53:04 PM
 #6

I see the whole thing as BitcoinConsultancy being handed a bomb that exploded in their hands, and then every prick doing nothing but shitting on them endlessly (in the hope that will get them their money back) while they try to clean up a mess someone else made, and then they get fucked again (by an insider).

I'm only surprised they haven't come out and told everyone to go and fuck themselves. I'm not surprised that they have not come forward to take what was stolen bitcoin as that would only implicate them in handling stolen goods, and really after the shit they have gotten do you blame them for throwing in the towel?

Really the way everyone, their mother and their dog has been hurling shit (and threats) at them (specifically at genjix, simply because he's engaged with people about it, and this is what he gets) makes me sick.

I genuinely think genjix would rather starve than steal or use stolen funds if it came to it, he is honest to a fault.

And this ... fucking mob, they turn on anyone who isn't behind them (started making accusations about me being colluding with the Intersango guys), it's disgusting.

Now prepare for the mob to descend upon this thread.


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DarkEmi
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August 03, 2012, 01:59:52 PM
 #7

Are you refering to the creditors as "prick" ?

Do you know how many very polite unanswered mails some of us have sent ?

Do you really think telling creditors to fuck themselves is a good idea ?

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Bitcoin Oz
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August 03, 2012, 02:01:08 PM
 #8

I met genjix before, so I might be biased. However, I also have not gotten any of my money back from Bitcoinica, so hopefully that would counteract the bias.

Based on the postings genjix made regarding Bitcoinica, he did not have access to the funds. Please consider that if not anything else.

On a somewhat lighter note, kindly note that genjix, unlike someone else, did not demand "fucking respect" from complaining customers.

+1

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August 03, 2012, 02:03:26 PM
 #9

+1

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August 03, 2012, 02:10:58 PM
 #10

I see the whole thing as BitcoinConsultancy being handed a bomb that exploded in their hands, and then every prick doing nothing but shitting on them endlessly (in the hope that will get them their money back) while they try to clean up a mess someone else made, and then they get fucked again (by an insider).

I'm only surprised they haven't come out and told everyone to go and fuck themselves. I'm not surprised that they have not come forward to take what was stolen bitcoin as that would only implicate them in handling stolen goods, and really after the shit they have gotten do you blame them for throwing in the towel?

Really the way everyone, their mother and their dog has been hurling shit (and threats) at them (specifically at genjix, simply because he's engaged with people about it, and this is what he gets) makes me sick.

I genuinely think genjix would rather starve than steal or use stolen funds if it came to it, he is honest to a fault.

And this ... fucking mob, they turn on anyone who isn't behind them (started making accusations about me being colluding with the Intersango guys), it's disgusting.

Now prepare for the mob to descend upon this thread.



Wow, you lost all my respect with this post.

I hope you learn from this.
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August 03, 2012, 02:15:52 PM
 #11

I see the whole thing as BitcoinConsultancy being handed a bomb that exploded in their hands, and then every prick doing nothing but shitting on them endlessly (in the hope that will get them their money back) while they try to clean up a mess someone else made, and then they get fucked again (by an insider).

I'm only surprised they haven't come out and told everyone to go and fuck themselves. I'm not surprised that they have not come forward to take what was stolen bitcoin as that would only implicate them in handling stolen goods, and really after the shit they have gotten do you blame them for throwing in the towel?

Really the way everyone, their mother and their dog has been hurling shit (and threats) at them (specifically at genjix, simply because he's engaged with people about it, and this is what he gets) makes me sick.

I genuinely think genjix would rather starve than steal or use stolen funds if it came to it, he is honest to a fault.

And this ... fucking mob, they turn on anyone who isn't behind them (started making accusations about me being colluding with the Intersango guys), it's disgusting.

Now prepare for the mob to descend upon this thread.



Wow, you lost all my respect with this post.

I hope you learn from this.


Show me where I'm wrong bro.

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paraipan
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August 03, 2012, 02:26:16 PM
 #12

I see the whole thing as BitcoinConsultancy being handed a bomb that exploded in their hands, and then every prick doing nothing but shitting on them endlessly (in the hope that will get them their money back) while they try to clean up a mess someone else made, and then they get fucked again (by an insider).

I'm only surprised they haven't come out and told everyone to go and fuck themselves. I'm not surprised that they have not come forward to take what was stolen bitcoin as that would only implicate them in handling stolen goods, and really after the shit they have gotten do you blame them for throwing in the towel?

Really the way everyone, their mother and their dog has been hurling shit (and threats) at them (specifically at genjix, simply because he's engaged with people about it, and this is what he gets) makes me sick.

I genuinely think genjix would rather starve than steal or use stolen funds if it came to it, he is honest to a fault.

And this ... fucking mob, they turn on anyone who isn't behind them (started making accusations about me being colluding with the Intersango guys), it's disgusting.

Now prepare for the mob to descend upon this thread.



Wow, you lost all my respect with this post.

I hope you learn from this.


Show me where I'm wrong bro.


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lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)
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August 03, 2012, 02:28:37 PM
 #13

Show me where I'm wrong bro.
It's not that you're wrong, but the clusterfuck is Bitcoinica's responsibility, not the creditors. Even if they were innocent of malice, in my humble opinion they should have hired a professional to deal with the PR and with the claims. Instead, they apparently were overwhelmed, screwed up both the PR and the claims and then just gave up.

Tihan claims the trio had operational responsiblity when the fails happened. Hiring other professionals who can fix the mess would have then been fully up to the trio. That would have been a proper, mature and responsible course of action. I'm sure there are accountants and IT specialists in the community who would have helped if asked.
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August 03, 2012, 02:32:27 PM
 #14

Show me where I'm wrong bro.
It's not that you're wrong, but the clusterfuck is Bitcoinica's responsibility, not the creditors. Even if they were innocent of malice, in my humble opinion they should have hired a professional to deal with the PR and with the claims. Instead, they apparently were overwhelmed, screwed up both the PR and the claims and then just gave up.

Tihan claims the trio had operational responsiblity when the fails happened. Hiring other professionals who can fix the mess would have then been fully up to the trio. That would have been a proper, mature and responsible course of action. I'm sure there are accountants and IT specialists in the community who would have helped if asked.

I think they're being made scapegoats, and they've tried to deal with it as best they could. You also assume they had the kinds of funds available to them at the time to be able to hire someone else to do PR and claims; unless they use funds from users this is not the case.

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August 03, 2012, 02:32:43 PM
 #15

I see the whole thing as BitcoinConsultancy being handed a bomb that exploded in their hands, and then every prick doing nothing but shitting on them endlessly (in the hope that will get them their money back) while they try to clean up a mess someone else made, and then they get fucked again (by an insider).

I'm only surprised they haven't come out and told everyone to go and fuck themselves. I'm not surprised that they have not come forward to take what was stolen bitcoin as that would only implicate them in handling stolen goods, and really after the shit they have gotten do you blame them for throwing in the towel?

Really the way everyone, their mother and their dog has been hurling shit (and threats) at them (specifically at genjix, simply because he's engaged with people about it, and this is what he gets) makes me sick.

I genuinely think genjix would rather starve than steal or use stolen funds if it came to it, he is honest to a fault.

And this ... fucking mob, they turn on anyone who isn't behind them (started making accusations about me being colluding with the Intersango guys), it's disgusting.

Now prepare for the mob to descend upon this thread.



Wow, you lost all my respect with this post.

I hope you learn from this.


Show me where I'm wrong bro.

Use your analogy, if someone give you a bomb and you take it, who is it to blame?

Not only you're wrong, but you make bunch of assumptions.

I'm not even gonna bother why you call Bitcoinica a "bomb".

Tihan has said it clearly himself that Intersango guys are exclusively responsible for Bitcoinica. I dont care what is the deal between them. Its in their best interest.

You dont call Bitcoinica customers ... pricks. Is that your attitude to your clients? No one from Bitcoinica  did what they promise (refunding customers money). Instead they point fingers between themselves. Throwing a towel shows they cant keep their words with Tihan either. Ever have a contractor working on your home? Most of crooks accept the job then walk out based on the very same reason .... they got themselves a "bomb". Who the fck is to blame but themselves? Can any rational person defend their action?

Whats your personal opinion/experience with Genjix is irrelevant. You called ppl hurling mobs but you present a bandwagon to jump on. "genjix would rather starve than steal or use stolen funds if it came to it, he is honest to a fault"

Again, you can believe what you want. But calling other ppl ...pricks for believing otherwise is fcking childish.

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August 03, 2012, 02:37:47 PM
 #16

Show me where I'm wrong bro.
It's not that you're wrong, but the clusterfuck is Bitcoinica's responsibility, not the creditors. Even if they were innocent of malice, in my humble opinion they should have hired a professional to deal with the PR and with the claims. Instead, they apparently were overwhelmed, screwed up both the PR and the claims and then just gave up.

Tihan claims the trio had operational responsiblity when the fails happened. Hiring other professionals who can fix the mess would have then been fully up to the trio. That would have been a proper, mature and responsible course of action. I'm sure there are accountants and IT specialists in the community who would have helped if asked.

I think they're being made scapegoats, and they've tried to deal with it as best they could. You also assume they had the kinds of funds available to them at the time to be able to hire someone else to do PR and claims; unless they use funds from users this is not the case.

Why did they take it over in the first place ?

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August 03, 2012, 02:41:26 PM
 #17


I think they're being made scapegoats, and they've tried to deal with it as best they could. You also assume they had the kinds of funds available to them at the time to be able to hire someone else to do PR and claims; unless they use funds from users this is not the case.

Trying your best isn't good enough for bitcoinica customers.

Either you perform to the satisfaction of the customers or you don't.

But the intersango guys gave up so they get a big fat 0.

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August 03, 2012, 02:43:02 PM
 #18

I don't think people are taking it personal against any of them, or at least they shouldn't be.  Especially genjix as the responses I received from genjix in the beginning of this mess seemed to be fast and courteous, I have also observed this in the forums.

As for intersango being handed a ticking time bomb,  they are to the best of my knowledge all grown men, who agreed to a legal obligation to assume operational control of a company.  The state that company was in is pretty much irrelevant, as they had their chance to do their DD and accept or pass on the deal.

Then phantomcircuit goes and starts demanding respect and defending their actions.  Saying silly things like,  the site is being exploited and that's the most important thing on their plates.  Well in this case, the data they were trying to protect was not only compromised, it was lost completely.  In light of the data being lost completely, a compromise doesn't sound so bad.

Personally i don't know any of them,  don't personally wish them any ill will.  As operators of bitcoinica though, they were / are complete fail.   I think they would save more face at this point by admitting they were wrong and being as helpful as possible to return people their funds, but they choose to be defensive and seem to no longer be facilitating the return of customer funds.

I personally have several hundred coins mixed up in this mess so I know first hand how aggravating this can be, and why at this point, the mob is the mob.  I didn't even say a peep for a month or more, they really did have their chance, I believe a lot of other people also gave them the same courtesy.  


teek

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August 03, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
 #19

I think they're being made scapegoats, and they've tried to deal with it as best they could.
If they couldn't handle it, they should not have taken any responsibility in the first place. They must have been aware of the absence of backups and so on. If it turned out later that it's worse, it just means they have a poor judgement.

You also assume they had the kinds of funds available to them at the time to be able to hire someone else to do PR and claims; unless they use funds from users this is not the case.
First of all, I'm sure there are community members who would have offered help even for free.

Edit: also, using opportunity costs, if it helped them to get Bitcoinica operate earlier, that might have been a more profitable course of action even if the hired personnel was not free. If Bitcoinica cannot operate, it cannot generate revenue. If the foregone profit exceeds the salary of the hired person, hiring is preferable.

Furthermore, even if they didn't find assistance with available funds, the more sound course of action would have been receivership (which we now have anyway) rather than doing a crappy job. Just dragging it while the situation deteriorates is irresponsible.

If you take on more responsibility than you can handle, it's your problem. Your customers don't judge you on your intentions but on your performance.
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August 03, 2012, 02:46:43 PM
Last edit: August 03, 2012, 08:32:28 PM by ninjarobot
 #20

Let's stick with the Bomb analogy:

1) They knew it was a bomb. (By doing the security audit and from IRC chatlogs, etc.)
2) They accepted the bomb. (By signing the Bitcoinica limited partnership agreement.)
3) They announced they owned it. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77975.0)
4) They pretended it was not a bomb to the outside world to attract capital (http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/)
5) They did not defuse the bomb. (We were in a transition phase. We were planning to redevelop the platform at some point in the future. What could possibly go wrong!?)
6) The bomb blew up in their faces and wiped out all their customers. (Surprise!)
7) They pretended it was not their bomb. (We didn't finish the paperwork...)
8) They did not clean up the mess. In fact they made it worse.
9) Welcome to now.

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