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Author Topic: What did theymos do with 200K?  (Read 10634 times)
SaltySpitoon
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March 09, 2015, 11:07:14 PM
 #21

I did a little bit of research on Slickage and I wasn't able to find much of anything. Does anyone have any details on this company or how they managed to land such a large job without having and PR or advertising (at least from what I could find)? I see they're based out of Hawaii and they have a twitter page and a github account. The twitter page only has about 75 followers. They also have a website but all it does is link to their Twitter and Github accounts. I'm curious how they were able to get this job.

They were recommended by Warren, the developer of Litecoin iirc.

And if they can be trusted 110%?
They could easily build in backdoors of which we would only found out about if things already were to go south.

I mean, I won't question your judgement but are you really sure they can be trusted?

And its all open source.

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March 09, 2015, 11:10:01 PM
 #22

is it this??

https://github.com/epochtalk/epochtalk

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March 09, 2015, 11:27:21 PM
 #23

Can't wait for the new forum if $1.5 million is the price it costs to build.

Just curious, how much did this current forum cost to set up and keep running?

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March 09, 2015, 11:33:57 PM
 #24

1.5 million is absolute madness. I bet huge corporations don't even pay that much for their website. Also the slickage twitter had only 75 followers as someone else said. I hope I can trust you guys on this one but a forum for 1.5 million when there are free alternatives is quite large...

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March 09, 2015, 11:45:10 PM
 #25

1.5 million is absolute madness. I bet huge corporations don't even pay that much for their website. Also the slickage twitter had only 75 followers as someone else said. I hope I can trust you guys on this one but a forum for 1.5 million when there are free alternatives is quite large...

But the problem is that the free alternatives are bad. Bitcointalk has nearly a half a million users, it needs something much more robust. The development hours that Theymos spends creating new features for the forum at the moment is an uphill battle, as he not only has to create the features, but also contend with issues in the current SMF based forum software. I agree $1.5m is a lot of money, but this could potentially become a staple in forum software everywhere. Being able to say that Bitcoin created the world's best forum software would be really cool. The only reason the forum was really holding any money at all, was to create a new forum. If Theymos had only spent $50, the rest of it would just be sitting there. Why not make the best forum software possible, since the entire budget is already allocated just for that purpose. And that doesn't mean spending money frivilously, that means creating the best forum with all of the functionality that will really help everyone out.

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March 10, 2015, 12:05:10 AM
 #26

Yes of course but maybe this money could go towards philantrophy or something worthwile to the community. I agree that maybe the money would just be sitting there, but 1.5 million for a forum software is absolute madness. All free or cheap forum software is 100% tested and is definitely enough to handle load. SMF is free (just checked there site and its a free download) and look how well it is holding up now. So hire some designer for at most a couple thousand dollars, and hire someone to do some features and there you have it a good forum.

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March 10, 2015, 12:11:02 AM
 #27

Yes of course but maybe this money could go towards philantrophy or something worthwile to the community. I agree that maybe the money would just be sitting there, but 1.5 million for a forum software is absolute madness. All free or cheap forum software is 100% tested and is definitely enough to handle load. SMF is free (just checked there site and its a free download) and look how well it is holding up now. So hire some designer for at most a couple thousand dollars, and hire someone to do some features and there you have it a good forum.
The donations were specifically for a new forum/new forum software. This was something that theymos explicitly said he was going to use the donated money for. After the $1.5 million is spent and the new forum is complete then the forum will still have a lot of money left over that is specifically earmarked for new forum software, due in part to the fact that the price of bitcoin has appreciated so much since most of the bitcoin was donated.
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March 10, 2015, 12:14:31 AM
 #28

Yes of course but maybe this money could go towards philantrophy or something worthwile to the community. I agree that maybe the money would just be sitting there, but 1.5 million for a forum software is absolute madness. All free or cheap forum software is 100% tested and is definitely enough to handle load. SMF is free (just checked there site and its a free download) and look how well it is holding up now. So hire some designer for at most a couple thousand dollars, and hire someone to do some features and there you have it a good forum.
The donations were specifically for a new forum/new forum software. This was something that theymos explicitly said he was going to use the donated money for. After the $1.5 million is spent and the new forum is complete then the forum will still have a lot of money left over that is specifically earmarked for new forum software, due in part to the fact that the price of bitcoin has appreciated so much since most of the bitcoin was donated.
True, I was never really interested in sending over 3 thousand dollars to a forum (10 btc), so I never read the donation page. If he did say that he would use the funds for the forum software then yea I think its a good idea then. Still, hard to get over the fact that a new forum costs 1.5 million dollars.

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March 10, 2015, 12:21:01 AM
 #29

1.5 million is absolute madness. I bet huge corporations don't even pay that much for their website. Also the slickage twitter had only 75 followers as someone else said. I hope I can trust you guys on this one but a forum for 1.5 million when there are free alternatives is quite large...

But the problem is that the free alternatives are bad. Bitcointalk has nearly a half a million users, it needs something much more robust. The development hours that Theymos spends creating new features for the forum at the moment is an uphill battle, as he not only has to create the features, but also contend with issues in the current SMF based forum software. I agree $1.5m is a lot of money, but this could potentially become a staple in forum software everywhere. Being able to say that Bitcoin created the world's best forum software would be really cool. The only reason the forum was really holding any money at all, was to create a new forum. If Theymos had only spent $50, the rest of it would just be sitting there. Why not make the best forum software possible, since the entire budget is already allocated just for that purpose. And that doesn't mean spending money frivilously, that means creating the best forum with all of the functionality that will really help everyone out.


Saying Bitcoin created the world's best forum software would indeed be really cool!

Will that software be used only on bitcointalk.org? Or will it be available for other forums either as open-source or paid licences?

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March 10, 2015, 12:25:33 AM
 #30

1.5 million is absolute madness. I bet huge corporations don't even pay that much for their website. Also the slickage twitter had only 75 followers as someone else said. I hope I can trust you guys on this one but a forum for 1.5 million when there are free alternatives is quite large...

But the problem is that the free alternatives are bad. Bitcointalk has nearly a half a million users, it needs something much more robust. The development hours that Theymos spends creating new features for the forum at the moment is an uphill battle, as he not only has to create the features, but also contend with issues in the current SMF based forum software. I agree $1.5m is a lot of money, but this could potentially become a staple in forum software everywhere. Being able to say that Bitcoin created the world's best forum software would be really cool. The only reason the forum was really holding any money at all, was to create a new forum. If Theymos had only spent $50, the rest of it would just be sitting there. Why not make the best forum software possible, since the entire budget is already allocated just for that purpose. And that doesn't mean spending money frivilously, that means creating the best forum with all of the functionality that will really help everyone out.


Saying Bitcoin created the world's best forum software would indeed be really cool!

Will that software be used only on bitcointalk.org? Or will it be available for other forums either as open-source or paid licences?

We should keep it to ourselves lol. If we are spending 1.5 million I doubt we would want to give it for free or cheap to other people. Also it would make a bunch of clones and we want our forum to be OURS, and no copies anywhere else. I doubt we would be the best forum software in the world though...

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March 10, 2015, 12:27:31 AM
 #31

man are they reinventing the wheel? This forum (SMF) is free to use, why the hell would anyone spend that much money on new forum code? Why not donate it to smf and work with the devs there to make it better?
Obviously it has held up quite well for the last 5 years too; which seems like a pretty good testament to the code.

Yes, we are creating a completely new forum software to compete with SMF. SMF has a lot of issues, it just isn't suitable for our needs. As far as how much money it costs, I hope that it will be well worth it, but frankly, creating new forum software is pretty much the only thing that the donated coins are to be used for. What else do we need? Might as well go all out.
1.5 mill would go a long way in fixing those issues. let alone a rewrite I'm sure but it isn't my money just saying.

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March 10, 2015, 12:29:10 AM
 #32

Yes of course but maybe this money could go towards philantrophy or something worthwile to the community. I agree that maybe the money would just be sitting there, but 1.5 million for a forum software is absolute madness. All free or cheap forum software is 100% tested and is definitely enough to handle load. SMF is free (just checked there site and its a free download) and look how well it is holding up now. So hire some designer for at most a couple thousand dollars, and hire someone to do some features and there you have it a good forum.
The donations were specifically for a new forum/new forum software. This was something that theymos explicitly said he was going to use the donated money for. After the $1.5 million is spent and the new forum is complete then the forum will still have a lot of money left over that is specifically earmarked for new forum software, due in part to the fact that the price of bitcoin has appreciated so much since most of the bitcoin was donated.
True, I was never really interested in sending over 3 thousand dollars to a forum (10 btc), so I never read the donation page. If he did say that he would use the funds for the forum software then yea I think its a good idea then. Still, hard to get over the fact that a new forum costs 1.5 million dollars.
If you are not aware of the facts then you probably are not qualified to be making comments about the question at hand.
Haha...suckers donated to people who sold the forum withing a couple weeks...

The forum wasn't sold (or given away). Past and future donated funds will be used to pay people to develop the forum software.

A million dollars (or even two million dollars) is really not a lot of money to be spending to build a piece of software that is used for a half million people, many of which conduct a lot of business on
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March 10, 2015, 12:33:30 AM
 #33

We should keep it to ourselves lol. If we are spending 1.5 million I doubt we would want to give it for free or cheap to other people. Also it would make a bunch of clones and we want our forum to be OURS, and no copies anywhere else. I doubt we would be the best forum software in the world though...

If it really is that good it can be sold, not given for free.
Also it could be called "Bitcoin Forums" or something like that and give bitcoin more exposure.

There are several options here, I don't think keeping it for ourselves would be the best one.

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March 10, 2015, 12:34:47 AM
 #34

We should keep it to ourselves lol. If we are spending 1.5 million I doubt we would want to give it for free or cheap to other people. Also it would make a bunch of clones and we want our forum to be OURS, and no copies anywhere else. I doubt we would be the best forum software in the world though...

If it really is that good it can be sold, not given for free.
Also it could be called "Bitcoin Forums" or something like that and give bitcoin more exposure.

There are several options here, I don't think keeping it for ourselves would be the best one.


Yes, I agree. Wouldn't it be great if the forum could end up making the 1.5 Million back by licensing out the software!
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March 10, 2015, 12:39:18 AM
 #35

We should keep it to ourselves lol. If we are spending 1.5 million I doubt we would want to give it for free or cheap to other people. Also it would make a bunch of clones and we want our forum to be OURS, and no copies anywhere else. I doubt we would be the best forum software in the world though...

If it really is that good it can be sold, not given for free.
Also it could be called "Bitcoin Forums" or something like that and give bitcoin more exposure.

There are several options here, I don't think keeping it for ourselves would be the best one.


Yes, I agree. Wouldn't it be great if the forum could end up making the 1.5 Million back by licensing out the software!
Doubt anyone would buy ANY piece of code for 1.5 million dollars, but custom code jobs are a different story. Well, if the code broke sha256 I bet it would not be sold for as little as 1.5 million lol
Calling it like BTC Forum Software would add lots of exposure I'm sure, if its really good, but it won't really have that much volume if it is sold as a good price.

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March 10, 2015, 12:40:27 AM
 #36

We should keep it to ourselves lol. If we are spending 1.5 million I doubt we would want to give it for free or cheap to other people. Also it would make a bunch of clones and we want our forum to be OURS, and no copies anywhere else. I doubt we would be the best forum software in the world though...

If it really is that good it can be sold, not given for free.
Also it could be called "Bitcoin Forums" or something like that and give bitcoin more exposure.

There are several options here, I don't think keeping it for ourselves would be the best one.


Yes, I agree. Wouldn't it be great if the forum could end up making the 1.5 Million back by licensing out the software!
Doubt anyone would buy ANY piece of code for 1.5 million dollars, but custom code jobs are a different story. Well, if the code broke sha256 I bet it would not be sold for as little as 1.5 million lol
Calling it like BTC Forum Software would add lots of exposure I'm sure, if its really good, but it won't really have that much volume if it is sold as a good price.

Not for 1.5 Million. But, if you get 10 sales at 150K, you are at the same difference. And calling it the Bitcoin Forum would give bitcoin lots of exposure.
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March 10, 2015, 12:44:59 AM
 #37

We should keep it to ourselves lol. If we are spending 1.5 million I doubt we would want to give it for free or cheap to other people. Also it would make a bunch of clones and we want our forum to be OURS, and no copies anywhere else. I doubt we would be the best forum software in the world though...

If it really is that good it can be sold, not given for free.
Also it could be called "Bitcoin Forums" or something like that and give bitcoin more exposure.

There are several options here, I don't think keeping it for ourselves would be the best one.


Yes, I agree. Wouldn't it be great if the forum could end up making the 1.5 Million back by licensing out the software!
Doubt anyone would buy ANY piece of code for 1.5 million dollars, but custom code jobs are a different story. Well, if the code broke sha256 I bet it would not be sold for as little as 1.5 million lol
Calling it like BTC Forum Software would add lots of exposure I'm sure, if its really good, but it won't really have that much volume if it is sold as a good price.

Not for 1.5 Million. But, if you get 10 sales at 150K, you are at the same difference. And calling it the Bitcoin Forum would give bitcoin lots of exposure.
Seriously doubt they would sell it for even 150k. The forum would probably be highly specialized, and there are many great free forums that serve the general purpose of just having talks with eachother, with some categories, PMing, and some signature stuff. Nothing special needed could easily be found for free.

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March 10, 2015, 12:56:07 AM
 #38

The new forum creation isn't to profit Bitcointalk, we aren't a business, we don't really have much need for money. All funds collected thus far have been for the new forum software. Hosting is now covered by Private Internet Acess, so I can't say that there are many expenses. Thats one of the reasons why new donator tiers were never created, because we didn't need the money, so why collect more? I believe that the forum might be closed source for a period of time after release just to make sure we aren't giving hackers a roadmap to how to cause issues, but then opened up once vetted and 100% secure, however that was something I had heard a long time ago, so that may not be necessary or true. I'm pretty sure it will be free/open source, since that is sort of what we are all about, but I dont think it has been discussed anywhere near this far so at this point its speculation.

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theymos
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March 10, 2015, 01:07:58 AM
 #39

Jesus Christ that is 50% over budget!
I seriously hope this dorum is going to be slick or it is a 1.5 Million not well spend.

When I first contacted Slickage, I stated my budget as $1.5 million. They estimated that only $1 million would be necessary. But the requirements changed in various ways, and (as always) various unexpected issues cropped up.

The forum must meet your and almost everyone's expectation then. That's quite a large sum of money.
Do you know exactly how many developers are working on the forum?

I expect that (especially after all this time) most people will be disappointed when the switchover happens because there won't be any major feature improvements over the current forum. My huge list of requirements will be met, but there's nothing groundbreaking in there. Building something (a little more than) feature-equal to SMF (which has been in development for over 10 years) isn't easy. But the new forum software is much more extensible and secure, so any future enhancements should be much easier to do.

There are 4 full-time programmers working on it, plus some additional outside contractors. You might be surprised by the cost if you've never looked into this sort of thing before, but it's actually pretty standard for a group of this size.

And if they can be trusted 110%?
They could easily build in backdoors of which we would only found out about if things already were to go south.

The code is public.

1.5 million is absolute madness. I bet huge corporations don't even pay that much for their website. Also the slickage twitter had only 75 followers as someone else said. I hope I can trust you guys on this one but a forum for 1.5 million when there are free alternatives is quite large...

Huge corporations pay way more for this sort of thing. This isn't just any website. It's a very large and complicated computer program.

Will that software be used only on bitcointalk.org? Or will it be available for other forums either as open-source or paid licences?

It'll be free and open source. MIT license. (Much of the code is already public on github.)

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
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March 10, 2015, 01:26:00 AM
 #40

Yeah, that's Slickage's $100k monthly fee. The amounts aren't exact, though. I send approximately the correct amount to an intermediate wallet of my own, and then it gets sent to Slickage via Coinbase.

The total cost will probably be around $1.5 million, which is more than I'd hoped, though not entirely unexpected.

One way or another it will be a moment to remember, I'm looking forward to the beta release.


When I first contacted Slickage, I stated my budget as $1.5 million. They estimated that only $1 million would be necessary. But the requirements changed in various ways, and (as always) various unexpected issues cropped up.


What sort of issues cropped up, just an example or two would be cool.


I expect that (especially after all this time) most people will be disappointed when the switchover happens because there won't be any major feature improvements over the current forum. My huge list of requirements will be met, but there's nothing groundbreaking in there. Building something (a little more than) feature-equal to SMF (which has been in development for over 10 years) isn't easy. But the new forum software is much more extensible and secure, so any future enhancements should be much easier to do.

There are 4 full-time programmers working on it, plus some additional outside contractors. You might be surprised by the cost if you've never looked into this sort of thing before, but it's actually pretty standard for a group of this size.


What changed in the original master sheet as new proposals were made and were added to the master list.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bHlm4NQkSzaBTT5tLIqQBmV92wSsbdOX5r-dRR9Dgg0/
(Can't tell myself since I can't see the last modified date in the google doc)


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One additional inquiry

Will there be a transition period, or will the migration all occur simultaneously with the shutdown of the old forum and switch over and redirection the new forum.
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