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Author Topic: Designated "business etiquette" boards  (Read 3725 times)
eMansipater
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May 25, 2011, 05:39:49 PM
 #1

Business in bitcoins is finally starting to take off, but no matter which way you look at it these forums are anything but professional and do not reflect the quality standards of a leading open source community.  For those of us trying to build serious BitCoin projects, they're quite frankly an embarrassment.  I would never send a potential business contact here, and as a mod I can also testify to the increasing complaints regarding language, thread hijacking, etc. for which there are no good guidelines against which to moderate.

I consider this all to be just normal growing pains, and I'm not interested in executively censoring opinions or personalities I disagree with.  But we need to self-organise things a little so that people can still talk about whatever they want without making the forums useless for people unwilling to wade through a lot of noise to find the signal, like just about anybody who considers their time valuable (no offense to anyone who spends as much time here as I do).

I propose that we designate several of the main boards as "business etiquette" zones, and then if necessary create additional boards for bitcoin-related (and thus not off-topic) discussions which are personal/philosophical/political or anything else that's out of place in a professional setting.

Too many people out there think BitCoin is a joke, and it's time to step up the game by acting like the $50 million technology BitCoin is.

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Anonymous
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May 25, 2011, 06:01:12 PM
 #2

The marketplace isn't professional?
eMansipater
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May 25, 2011, 06:48:54 PM
 #3

It's a bit unfair to pick on anyone since there's no current standard of etiquette that people are requested to adhere to, but I think it would be fair to say that posts like these are NSFW (posters are clearly joking, and I just grabbed it from a search, but this is plenty to get an employee in trouble if they accidentally click on it at work).

I've also heard some unconfirmed reports that the whole forums are being auto-blocked by some filtering software because of NSFW content (anyone have better details on that btw?).

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Anonymous
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May 25, 2011, 06:50:24 PM
 #4

Here's my view: When the demand comes for a professional, business-only forum it will be made. I don't see why it's totally necessary for this forum to specialize in such a thing.
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May 25, 2011, 06:52:06 PM
 #5

It's a bit unfair to pick on anyone since there's no current standard of etiquette that people are requested to adhere to, but I think it would be fair to say that posts like these are NSFW (posters are clearly joking, and I just grabbed it from a search, but this is plenty to get an employee in trouble if they accidentally click on it at work).

I've also heard some unconfirmed reports that the whole forums are being auto-blocked by some filtering software because of NSFW content (anyone have better details on that btw?).  If we could keep "business etiquette" boards public and simply make other boards require log-in it would help prevent that sort of thing.
I vote a plain fat no.

eMansipater
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May 25, 2011, 06:56:29 PM
 #6

Consider my post demand in and of itself.  The market isn't somebody else, it's us, paying attention to what needs to be done.  The lack of business-safe zones on the official project forums isn't a gap that can be appropriately filled elsewhere, and it's most assuredly having an impact.

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theymos
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May 25, 2011, 07:00:07 PM
 #7

Create a competing forum. bitcoin.org should not be considered any more official than weusecoins.com or any other site.

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Anonymous
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May 25, 2011, 07:00:30 PM
 #8

Well, I think a simple business board will cut it. If some goof-ball decides to starts going off-topic on there, you move it to off-topic. It doesn't sound difficult at all.
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May 25, 2011, 07:01:06 PM
 #9

Create a competing forum. bitcoin.org should not be considered any more official than weusecoins.com or any other site.
+1

Anonymous
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May 25, 2011, 07:02:03 PM
 #10

Create a competing forum. bitcoin.org should not be considered any more official than weusecoins.com or any other site.
This. The main point of Bitcoin is its decentralization. The technology is public. It's not Gave Andresen's or anybody elses. We don't totally reflect its use and direction. Every individual does whether he be on the forum or outside of it.
eMansipater
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May 25, 2011, 07:12:29 PM
 #11

Why is it so unacceptable just to designate a specific portion of the board "business etiquette"?  Is that really some sort of assault on personal freedom?

Create a competing forum. bitcoin.org should not be considered any more official than weusecoins.com or any other site.
In theory, I agree with you.  In practice, without big bold letters proclaiming that on the front page, no reasonable person will come to that conclusion.  And in any case, de facto official is sufficient for the point I'm trying to make.

This. The main point of Bitcoin is its decentralization. The technology is public. It's not Gave Andresen's or anybody elses. We don't totally reflect its use and direction. Every individual does whether he be on the forum or outside of it.

Which is why I, as an individual, am making a suggestion to a community of individuals who have a larger impact on the image of BitCoin than any other identifiable group that we voluntarily self-organise a little to our mutual advantage.

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Anonymous
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May 25, 2011, 07:13:35 PM
 #12

So, you want make a business etiquette sub-forum? I honestly don't see a problem with it.
zef
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May 25, 2011, 07:17:02 PM
 #13

I think a strictly business board might be a good idea, but I'm not convinced that Project Development and Marketplace boards are inadequate. From what I've seen in my brief experience is that they are quite active and productive. But I am not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish.

I would suggest adding a board for specifically for dissent or disagreement on bitcoins, where there are stricter rules to keep conversation productive and avoid possible flame wars.  It seems a lot of people have strong emotional ties defending or attacking bitcoins, and understandably so.  
Anonymous
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May 25, 2011, 07:21:06 PM
 #14

I think a strictly business board might be a good idea, but I'm not convinced that Project Development and Marketplace boards are inadequate. From what I've seen in my brief experience is that they are quite active and productive. But I am not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish.

Simply renaming the "Project Development Board" to "Bitcoin Ventures and Businesses" can do the trick.

I would suggest adding a board for specifically for dissent or disagreement on bitcoins, where there are stricter rules to keep conversation productive and avoid possible flame wars.  It seems a lot of people have strong emotional ties defending or attacking bitcoins, and understandably so.  

No. Too much overheard. You're going to kill us with butthurt, power-high moderation.
Mike Hearn
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May 25, 2011, 07:21:35 PM
 #15

For now it'd be better to make a politics subforum, IMHO, like how there's one for economics.

The problem is that "Bitcoin Discussion" is too vague so it's constantly being flooded with stuff that's barely on-topic, like the current sovereign citizens thread. There needs to be an area for stuff that doesn't obviously fit, or for people to ask newbie questions. Stuff that's political in nature could just be moved. Spam (like the citizens thread) should just be deleted.

eMansipater, you are a mod so if you think something is off-topic why not just move it or lock it?

As to the idea that forum.bitcoin.org is not an official forum, sorry but that's naive. It's obviously the official forum and its contents do reflect on the people using and building Bitcoin. At the very least it could do with some better organization.

Anonymous
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May 25, 2011, 07:23:17 PM
 #16

Bitcoin doesn't have an official anything. The development team could go rogue or fall apart very easily. The software would still continue though.
elewton
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May 25, 2011, 07:24:50 PM
 #17

It doesn't have to be a competing forum.  A co-operating forum would be valuable.

As Ubuntu is to Debian, a Bitcoin Business forum could be to Bitcoin.org.  I love this site for what it is, but the characters around here, including myself, may be off-putting to cautious business people unaccustomed to open forums.

They'd probably prefer a heavily-moderated forum in which one is polite, helpful, and accurate or does not post/gets edited.
eMansipater
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May 25, 2011, 07:37:06 PM
 #18

"Business etiquette" as a topic doesn't really make sense taxonomically.  But on most forums you have a chance to see what you're getting into before clicking.  Heck, even 4chan keeps /b/ separate from everything else.  Is there a good reason that we can't simply designate some of the main boards as business etiquette and then create enough "enter at your own risk" boards that people can talk about whatever they want?  Lots of the main boards are getting overloaded by pure quantity of posting anyways, so this would be a helpful way of enabling people to both find things and post more effectively.

I think a strictly business board might be a good idea, but I'm not convinced that Project Development and Marketplace boards are inadequate. From what I've seen in my brief experience is that they are quite active and productive. But I am not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish.

Just trying to improve the signal to noise ratio, and give people a chance to discover bitcoin without having to drink from the firehose of the untempered internets.

I would suggest adding a board for specifically for dissent or disagreement on bitcoins, where there are stricter rules to keep conversation productive and avoid possible flame wars.  It seems a lot of people have strong emotional ties defending or attacking bitcoins, and understandably so.  
This might be a good idea if implemented very carefully.

For now it'd be better to make a politics subforum, IMHO, like how there's one for economics.

The problem is that "Bitcoin Discussion" is too vague so it's constantly being flooded with stuff that's barely on-topic, like the current sovereign citizens thread. There needs to be an area for stuff that doesn't obviously fit, or for people to ask newbie questions. Stuff that's political in nature could just be moved. Spam (like the citizens thread) should just be deleted.
Politics/philosophy is definitely a big enough thing to warrant its own no-holds-barred zone.

eMansipater, you are a mod so if you think something is off-topic why not just move it or lock it?
If something is obviously so according to community consensus, I do.  But the job of a moderator is to hold the community to its own standards rather than just impose mine instead, which is why something like this has to be a discussion rather than just a skew in my own practice of moderation.  If you were referring to the citizens thread I am just giving people a chance to see it before I move it with fair warning, since that's why PLATO bumped it.

...If we could keep "business etiquette" boards public and simply make other boards require log-in it would help prevent that sort of thing.
I vote a plain fat no.
By the way, that was just me thinking out loud about the technical side of things.  I've removed it since that's not the gist of what I'm getting at here.

If you found my post helpful, feel free to send a small tip to 1QGukeKbBQbXHtV6LgkQa977LJ3YHXXW8B
Visit the BitCoin Q&A Site to ask questions or share knowledge.
0.009 BTC too confusing?  Use mBTC instead!  Details at www.em-bit.org or visit the project thread to help make Bitcoin prices more human-friendly.
kiba
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May 25, 2011, 07:40:37 PM
 #19

If we're going to use bitcoin.org marketplace as a hub of commerce, let act like it is a hub of commerce.

Simple rules:

1. Don't hijack other people's threads for your opinions, especially when they're trying to conduct business transaction or access trustworthiness.

2. Offtopic chatters will simply be moved to split off to some place else.

I think they're already in place anyhow, but I don't moderate the marketplace forum for thread hijacking much.

eMansipater
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May 25, 2011, 07:47:05 PM
 #20

If we're going to use bitcoin.org marketplace as a hub of commerce, let act like it is a hub of commerce.

Simple rules:

1. Don't hijack other people's threads for your opinions, especially when they're trying to conduct business transaction or access trustworthiness.

2. Offtopic chatters will simply be moved to split off to some place else.

I think they're already in place anyhow, but I don't moderate the marketplace forum for thread hijacking much.
Yep, I'm with you on that.  And just a very brief "business etiquette expected" label on the board subtitle would be fair enough notice to all.

If you found my post helpful, feel free to send a small tip to 1QGukeKbBQbXHtV6LgkQa977LJ3YHXXW8B
Visit the BitCoin Q&A Site to ask questions or share knowledge.
0.009 BTC too confusing?  Use mBTC instead!  Details at www.em-bit.org or visit the project thread to help make Bitcoin prices more human-friendly.
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