Jeers to mtgox

[sadpandatech]

From their point of view this is a question of if this money is yours or your mums  

I fail to see why there is a need for residence information in my name as long as the address matches what is on my driver's license.

There are plenty of people in situations where their residence is not in their name.. spouses, siblings, roommates, people whose permanent address is different from their residence... etc.

For example, when I was doing my undergraduate degree, I paid my roommate via my bank account and he wrote out all the checks for the rent.

a notarized copy of the rental agreemant probably would have worked.

To anyone else. BEFORE you move money to/from Gox, get your account verified!

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[casascius]

In Texas, notaries by law can't charge more than $6.

Them asking for your notarized proof of identity to cash out BTC is perfectly reasonable.

[AzN1337c0d3r]

After several PMs with mtgox_Alex. I was told my Car Insurance with me listed as one of the drivers was sufficient proof. I have submitted it and await my verification.

Them asking for your notarized proof of identity to cash out BTC is perfectly reasonable.

However, if I cannot notarize for whatever reason, they refuse to allow me to withdraw my BTC.

BTC is not recognized as money by any country in the world so therefore doesn't fall under the purview of any AML laws I'm aware of.

But IANAL. Any one with legal experience want to comment?

To anyone else. BEFORE you move money to/from Gox, get your account verified!

If there was a way to sticky a post...

[repentance]

BTC is not recognized as money by any country in the world so therefore doesn't fall under the purview of any AML laws I'm aware of.

There's a long list of things which aren't money that are covered by AML legislation.  Money laundering very often involves using illicit money to buy items of value which are later sold to establish a "legitimate" trail for the money.  What the items are is irrelevant to whether or not they're being used as a means of laundering money.  They don't even have to be high value items. 

From an AML compliance point of view, it's even more important to verify for Bitcoin withdrawals.  In the case of withdrawals to bank accounts, at least the bank should have sufficient KYC information about their customer on record for the money trail to be followed if necessary.  There's nothing inherent in a Bitcoin address which identifies it as belonging to a specific person or which easily allows the origin and destination of BTC going to and from that address to be determined.

[AzN1337c0d3r]

There's a long list of things which aren't money that are covered by AML legislation.  

Could you provide that list?

Money laundering very often involves using illicit money to buy items of value which are later sold to establish a "legitimate" trail for the money.  What the items are is irrelevant to whether or not they're being used as a means of laundering money.  They don't even have to be high value items.  

From an AML compliance point of view, it's even more important to verify for Bitcoin withdrawals.  In the case of withdrawals to bank accounts, at least the bank should have sufficient KYC information about their customer on record for the money trail to be followed if necessary.  There's nothing inherent in a Bitcoin address which identifies it as belonging to a specific person or which easily allows the origin and destination of BTC going to and from that address to be determined.

I'm well aware of what money-laundering is.

The question is whether there are any AML laws giving mtgox the authority to indefinitely hold my coins just because I dont want to/can't pass/don't trust their verification procedures.

Note that in my hypothetical situation (I've finally been verified), I'm not withdrawing to cash anymore. I simply wanted my bitcoins back before I was verified.

[Mt.Gox_Alex]

I am glad we found a way to solve this matter and this should be a reminder to everyone : There are many ways for you to be verified and many documents that will do just fine. The notarized documents are most of the time (for verified account) used in last resort when no other document can be sent.

So if you ever have problem when trying to be verified, just try to think out of the box and ask what can of document could be OK. Since we are working with many different countries we many not be always aware of what document you may have in your possession.