Why Bitcoin so popular in Discussions about government taking over the economy?

[myrkul]

They had no Bitcoin, bringing us back around to square one here.  

What differentiates Bitcoin from Dollars that allows government control?

The transaction tracking.  It's vastly easier to launder paper fiat money than it is electronic currency with a full transaction log. 

I see... and if this transaction log shows your government-approved whitelist addresses getting almost no traffic, while the rest of the addresses get plenty, what then?

You audit and arrest people conducting business illegally.  If a business is running without taking in any legal currency or paying taxes it will be fairly obvious when all legitimate business is tracked. 

So... you'll arrest people on - literally - absence of proof? And you expect people to be OK with that?

[Rarity]

They had no Bitcoin, bringing us back around to square one here.  

What differentiates Bitcoin from Dollars that allows government control?

The transaction tracking.  It's vastly easier to launder paper fiat money than it is electronic currency with a full transaction log. 

I see... and if this transaction log shows your government-approved whitelist addresses getting almost no traffic, while the rest of the addresses get plenty, what then?

You audit and arrest people conducting business illegally.  If a business is running without taking in any legal currency or paying taxes it will be fairly obvious when all legitimate business is tracked. 

So... you'll arrest people on - literally - absence of proof? And you expect people to be OK with that?

What are you even talking about?  You suspect a car dealer of operating on the black market.  You look at his transaction log and see he isn't receiving legitimate payments. That is proof.

Maybe he is only moving a small number of cars in this way.  Okay, a drug dealer just got caught in possession of one of his cars and there is no log of the purchase in the transaction log.  Busted. 

[myrkul]

Okay, a drug dealer just got caught in possession of one of his cars and there is no log of the purchase in the transaction log.  Busted. 

Prove that drug dealer didn't buy it second-hand.

You can't. This is what I'm saying. You don't have proof that the car dealer did anything wrong, all you have is proof he didn't (legally) sell anything to that drug dealer.

[Rarity]

Okay, a drug dealer just got caught in possession of one of his cars and there is no log of the purchase in the transaction log.  Busted.  

Prove that drug dealer didn't buy it second-hand.

You can't.

Yes I can.  Cars have VINs and transferring titles is a government process.  There will be a record of who the car was sold to originally at the dealership or they are in deep shit already.

[myrkul]

Okay, a drug dealer just got caught in possession of one of his cars and there is no log of the purchase in the transaction log.  Busted. 

Prove that drug dealer didn't buy it second-hand.

You can't.

Yes I can.  Cars have VINs and transferring titles is a government process.

Right. The drug dealer is going to register the car he bought on the black market under his name. Uh huh. Good luck with that.

[Rarity]

Okay, a drug dealer just got caught in possession of one of his cars and there is no log of the purchase in the transaction log.  Busted.  

Prove that drug dealer didn't buy it second-hand.

You can't.

Yes I can.  Cars have VINs and transferring titles is a government process.

Right. The drug dealer is going to register the car he bought on the black market under his name. Uh huh. Good luck with that.

It doesn't matter who he registers it under, we are talking about busting the dealership here.  We have the car.  We know it came from them.  We know they transferred the title. There is no legitimate payment for it.  That is all the proof you need unless you think it is reasonable that they might be giving away cars for free.

[myrkul]

It doesn't matter who he registers it under, we are talking about busting the dealership here.  We have the car.  We know it came from them.  We know they transferred the title. There is no legitimate payment for it.  That is all the proof you need unless you think it is reasonable that they might be giving away cars for free.

Prove that there is no legitimate payment for it. The blockchain contains no information about the nature of the transaction.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Okay, a drug dealer just got caught in possession of one of his cars and there is no log of the purchase in the transaction log.  Busted.  

Prove that drug dealer didn't buy it second-hand.

You can't.

Yes I can.  Cars have VINs and transferring titles is a government process.

Right. The drug dealer is going to register the car he bought on the black market under his name. Uh huh. Good luck with that.

It doesn't matter who he registers it under, we are talking about busting the dealership here.  We have the car.  We know it came from them.  We know they transferred the title. There is no legitimate payment for it.  That is all the proof you need unless you think it is reasonable that they might be giving away cars for free.

You overestimate the competency and efficiency of the government 

[Rarity]

Prove that there is no legitimate payment for it. The blockchain contains no information about the nature of the transaction.

Incredibly fucking easy.  The dealership sold 5 cars that day, we know this because when you sell a car you have to transfer the title.  Are there 5 payments for them? 

[bb113]

Prove that there is no legitimate payment for it. The blockchain contains no information about the nature of the transaction.

Incredibly fucking easy.  The dealership sold 5 cars that day, we know this because when you sell a car you have to transfer the title.  Are there 5 payments for them? 

Have you ever had contact with a government? That is definitely too hard for them.

[myrkul]

Prove that there is no legitimate payment for it. The blockchain contains no information about the nature of the transaction.

Incredibly fucking easy.  The dealership sold 5 cars that day, we know this because when you sell a car you have to transfer the title.  Are there 5 payments for them? 

There almost certainly would be. Just not necessarily from the people who bought the cars.

[Rarity]

Prove that there is no legitimate payment for it. The blockchain contains no information about the nature of the transaction.

Incredibly fucking easy.  The dealership sold 5 cars that day, we know this because when you sell a car you have to transfer the title.  Are there 5 payments for them? 

There almost certainly would be. Just not necessarily from the people who bought the cars.

I don't think the $20 oil change is going to fool anyone.

[bb113]

The funny thing is that rarity is the type of person who would get quickly fired from a government job for infringing his/her superior's sphere of plausible deniability.

[myrkul]

Prove that there is no legitimate payment for it. The blockchain contains no information about the nature of the transaction.

Incredibly fucking easy.  The dealership sold 5 cars that day, we know this because when you sell a car you have to transfer the title.  Are there 5 payments for them? 

There almost certainly would be. Just not necessarily from the people who bought the cars.

I don't think the $20 oil change is going to fool anyone.

You're not thinking deviously enough. What if I had an account specifically for buying cars? I could sell myself a car, but that car actually gets sold to the drug dealer. The money that the drug dealer gives me gets shuffled and mixed, possibly ending up in that shell account 150 or so transactions later.

5 car-sized transactions, and a non-entity to track down looking for whoever sold that car to the drug dealer. And this is just my 5-minute analysis of the issue. You can be certain that people who actually avoid government intervention for a living will be many times more devious than this.

[Rarity]

You're not thinking deviously enough. What if I had an account specifically for buying cars? I could sell myself a car, but that car actually gets sold to the drug dealer.

Then you would have to explain why you bought so many cars and yet don't have them any more and how a criminal ending up in possession of one.

The money that the drug dealer gives me gets shuffled and mixed, possibly ending up in that shell account 150 or so transactions later.

If you are attempting to launder black market coins you are wasting your time because they will never be allowed back into the system regardless of how much you transfer them.  If you are using white market coins you all you are doing is making a public record of your attempt to hide money for a criminal, great plan.

5 car-sized transactions, and a non-entity to track down looking for whoever sold that car to the drug dealer. And this is just my 5-minute analysis of the issue. You can be certain that people who actually avoid government intervention for a living will be many times more devious than this.

Your 5 minute analysis is deeply flawed.  You are still thinking in terms of an economy where laundering money is actually possible.   I am correct on this matter and you should actually consider it in depth before continuing to post.  

[Rarity]

If you are attempting to launder black market coins you are wasting your time because they will never be allowed back into the system regardless of how much you transfer them.

So the government controls all Bitcoin mining then?

There is zero need to.

[myrkul]

You're not thinking deviously enough. What if I had an account specifically for buying cars? I could sell myself a car, but that car actually gets sold to the drug dealer.

Then you would have to explain why you bought so many cars and yet don't have them any more and how a criminal ending up in possession of one.

The account that bought the car isn't "mine" it's nobody's, a vacant shell account. An address, nothing more.

I have no need to explain what someone else does after they buy my cars.

If you are attempting to launder black market coins you are wasting your time because they will never be allowed back into the system regardless of how much you transfer them.

So the government controls all Bitcoin mining then?

There is zero need to.

I would be very interested in seeing how you propose to stop miners from including transactions from "black market" addresses to "white market" ones.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Once bought a car from a mate for $7000 and when it came to register it that figure magically changed to $500 so the transfer tax was only paid on the smaller amount 

[Nefario]

In Ireland what they have is the Criminal Assets Bureau, where if they start chasing you, require you to prove you got the funds legitimatelythat was used to buy your property (i.e. your house car etc.).

If you can't provide legit means of income that could cover those assets then they take them off you.

I believe it's something along the same lines in the U.S. so it becomes a case of prove that you're good or you lose everything (although its the IRS in the states).

[Bitcoin Oz]

If you are attempting to launder black market coins you are wasting your time because they will never be allowed back into the system regardless of how much you transfer them.

So the government controls all Bitcoin mining then?

There is zero need to.

So, what happens when I mine transaction fees from blacklisted addresses along with transaction fees from whitelisted addresses?