Max Keiser - "Libertarians are Intellectually Lazy & Idiots"

[conspirosphere.tk]

I consider a moral duty to do my best to not pay any tax, and that is one of the reasons I am into into bitcoins.

Is that because you don't agree with what the money is used for, or because you're an anarchist or something of that nature?

I am a political realist, therefore anarchist.
Besides, what is the point of taxes in a pure fiat money system?

[myrkul]

Taxes being voluntary doesn't starve the government. In fact, the IRS isn't even going to care if most people just stop paying taxes with USD. They only target people who are worth targeting, and that doesn't change with Bitcoin. It just gets harder.

Yup, they'll actually have to offer services that people will want to pay for.

Sound familiar?

No, they'll still collect taxes from people that want to pay them. There are a lot of those people.

For now.

[dree12]

Taxes being voluntary doesn't starve the government. In fact, the IRS isn't even going to care if most people just stop paying taxes with USD. They only target people who are worth targeting, and that doesn't change with Bitcoin. It just gets harder.

Yup, they'll actually have to offer services that people will want to pay for.

Sound familiar?

No, they'll still collect taxes from people that want to pay them. There are a lot of those people.

For now.

And now is all that matters concerning Bitcoin adoption.

Adoption: not alienating half the political spectrum.
Post-adoption: whatever you imagine.

[myrkul]

Taxes being voluntary doesn't starve the government. In fact, the IRS isn't even going to care if most people just stop paying taxes with USD. They only target people who are worth targeting, and that doesn't change with Bitcoin. It just gets harder.

Yup, they'll actually have to offer services that people will want to pay for.

Sound familiar?

No, they'll still collect taxes from people that want to pay them. There are a lot of those people.

For now.

And now is all that matters concerning Bitcoin adoption.

Adoption: not alienating half the political spectrum.
Post-adoption: whatever you imagine.

Which half would that be? The half that wants to control other people? Fuck 'em.

[dree12]

Taxes being voluntary doesn't starve the government. In fact, the IRS isn't even going to care if most people just stop paying taxes with USD. They only target people who are worth targeting, and that doesn't change with Bitcoin. It just gets harder.

Yup, they'll actually have to offer services that people will want to pay for.

Sound familiar?

No, they'll still collect taxes from people that want to pay them. There are a lot of those people.

For now.

And now is all that matters concerning Bitcoin adoption.

Adoption: not alienating half the political spectrum.
Post-adoption: whatever you imagine.

Which half would that be? The half that wants to control other people? Fuck 'em.

Bitcoin is not a means to achieve a political end. It is a decentralized, fair monetary transfer system. Sabotaging what it is for what it is not is not constructive.

[myrkul]

Taxes being voluntary doesn't starve the government. In fact, the IRS isn't even going to care if most people just stop paying taxes with USD. They only target people who are worth targeting, and that doesn't change with Bitcoin. It just gets harder.

Yup, they'll actually have to offer services that people will want to pay for.

Sound familiar?

No, they'll still collect taxes from people that want to pay them. There are a lot of those people.

For now.

And now is all that matters concerning Bitcoin adoption.

Adoption: not alienating half the political spectrum.
Post-adoption: whatever you imagine.

Which half would that be? The half that wants to control other people? Fuck 'em.

Bitcoin is not a means to achieve a political end. It is a decentralized, fair monetary transfer system. Sabotaging what it is for what it is not is not constructive.

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!"

[dree12]

Taxes being voluntary doesn't starve the government. In fact, the IRS isn't even going to care if most people just stop paying taxes with USD. They only target people who are worth targeting, and that doesn't change with Bitcoin. It just gets harder.

Yup, they'll actually have to offer services that people will want to pay for.

Sound familiar?

No, they'll still collect taxes from people that want to pay them. There are a lot of those people.

For now.

And now is all that matters concerning Bitcoin adoption.

Adoption: not alienating half the political spectrum.
Post-adoption: whatever you imagine.

Which half would that be? The half that wants to control other people? Fuck 'em.

Bitcoin is not a means to achieve a political end. It is a decentralized, fair monetary transfer system. Sabotaging what it is for what it is not is not constructive.

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!"

You are not permitted to issue and control Bitcoin.

[myrkul]

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!"

You are not permitted to issue and control Bitcoin.

Precisely.

[dree12]

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!"

You are not permitted to issue and control Bitcoin.

Precisely.

Therefore, the quote is invalid.

[myrkul]

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!"

You are not permitted to issue and control Bitcoin.

Precisely.

Therefore, the quote is invalid.

Then you're looking at it wrong. The quote says money trumps political power. Decentralize money, decentralize political power.

The only invalid quote here is this:

Bitcoin is not a means to achieve a political end.

[Matthew N. Wright]

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!"

You are not permitted to issue and control Bitcoin.

Precisely.

Therefore, the quote is invalid.

Then you're looking at it wrong. The quote says money trumps political power. Decentralize money, decentralize political power.

The only invalid quote here is this:

Bitcoin is not a means to achieve a political end.

Money doesn't make politicians, people do. Money is just what gives them more power.

[dree12]

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!"

You are not permitted to issue and control Bitcoin.

Precisely.

Therefore, the quote is invalid.

Then you're looking at it wrong. The quote says money trumps political power. Decentralize money, decentralize political power.

The only invalid quote here is this:

Bitcoin is not a means to achieve a political end.

Money and political power are both products of human society. There is no reason one would trump the other.

Why would Bitcoin be a means to achieve a political end?

[420]

The day they will be able to effectively "regulate" bitcoins, I'm out for good.

I know some people are against taxes (I'm not, just against forced taxes for things I don't want to participate in and don't ask for) but do you expect to pay taxes on bitcoins?

I consider a moral duty to do my best to not pay any tax, and that is one of the reasons I am into into bitcoins.

As long as taxes are going to kill people mostly overseas and arrest people here for partaking in the consumption of a plant by any means, no tax money for them

[myrkul]

Money doesn't make politicians, people do. Money is just what gives them more power.

Why would Bitcoin be a means to achieve a political end?

Bitcoin, or it's successors, makes paying the State an entirely voluntary affair. They can't even prove how much you've got. When people cannot be forced into paying the State, the State must convince them to pay. That puts them in market competition, if not with each other, then at least with all the myriad other things money can buy.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Money doesn't make politicians, people do. Money is just what gives them more power.

Why would Bitcoin be a means to achieve a political end?

Bitcoin, or it's successors, makes paying the State an entirely voluntary affair. They can't even prove how much you've got. When people cannot be forced into paying the State, the State must convince them to pay. That puts them in market competition, if not with each other, then at least with all the myriad other things money can buy.

Yes, but it doesn't remove the government, it just makes them more honest (unless they basically kill everyone who carries bitcoins like they currently do with any lethal weapons).

Government may be a flawed principle in itself, but I think short of some advancements in Eugenics, our need for government is far from over. This forum is a government. The internet you use is a government. McDonalds is a government (they control your actions and do not reward you unless you do what they want, they way they want it, and yet they produce a product through this). Everything needs management, and the roots of this go right down to our childhood. When a baby can be born alone and grow up without any help from anyone else, we won't need government. The second someone says "we dont' need moderation of that", I'll point you to pedophiles, kidnappers, murderers and psychopaths that would raise the child up as a freak.

Government may be inherently evil, but our interest in creating one is natural and understandable. Government is a file system tree on your computer. You want chaos? Fine. Randomize your hard drive. No order! No one tells these bits what to do or where to go! Rather useless.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Bitcoin, or it's successors, makes paying the State an entirely voluntary affair. They can't even prove how much you've got. When people cannot be forced into paying the State, the State must convince them to pay. That puts them in market competition, if not with each other, then at least with all the myriad other things money can buy.

Then it becomes either a ticket (pay-as-you-go), or a contribution (voluntary gift).
Taxes are neither voluntary, nor an exchange for any particular service.

[myrkul]

Money doesn't make politicians, people do. Money is just what gives them more power.

Why would Bitcoin be a means to achieve a political end?

Bitcoin, or it's successors, makes paying the State an entirely voluntary affair. They can't even prove how much you've got. When people cannot be forced into paying the State, the State must convince them to pay. That puts them in market competition, if not with each other, then at least with all the myriad other things money can buy.

Yes, but it doesn't remove the government, it just makes them more honest (unless they basically kill everyone who carries bitcoins like they currently do with any lethal weapons).

Government may be a flawed principle in itself, but I think short of some advancements in Eugenics, our need for government is far from over.

Would you rather kill criminals, or reform them?

An honest government, in market competition, is functionally identical to an AnCap defense firm.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Government may be a flawed principle in itself, but I think short of some advancements in Eugenics, our need for government is far from over. This forum is a government. The internet you use is a government. McDonalds is a government (they control your actions and do not reward you unless you do what they want, they way they want it, and yet they produce a product through this). Everything needs management, and the roots of this go right down to our childhood. When a baby can be born alone and grow up without any help from anyone else, we won't need government. The second someone says "we dont' need moderation of that", I'll point you to pedophiles, kidnappers, murderers and psychopaths that would raise the child up as a freak.

Government may be inherently evil, but our interest in creating one is natural and understandable. Government is a file system tree on your computer. You want chaos? Fine. Randomize your hard drive. No order! No one tells these bits what to do or where to go! Rather useless.

That's the brainwashing the matrix of B/S instilled in you: "lack of Government? Be afraid!"
...and an ironical negation of your sign.

I'll try to cure it with this quote:
"Before our white brothers came to civilize us we had no jails. Therefore we had no criminals. You can’t have criminals without a jail. We had no locks or keys, and so we had no thieves. If a man was so poor that he had no horse, tipi or blanket, someone gave him these things. We were too uncivilized to set much value on personal belongings. We wanted to have things only in order to give them away. We had no money, and therefore a man’s worth couldn’t be measured by it. We had no written law, no attorney or politicians, therefore we couldn’t cheat. We were in a really bad way before the white man came, and I don’t know how we managed to get along without the basic things which, we are told, are absolutely necessary to make a civilized society." - John Lame Deer, Seeker of Visions: The Life of a Sioux Medicine Man, Simon & Schuster; Revised edition (October 1, 1994)

[Matthew N. Wright]

Government may be a flawed principle in itself, but I think short of some advancements in Eugenics, our need for government is far from over. This forum is a government. The internet you use is a government. McDonalds is a government (they control your actions and do not reward you unless you do what they want, they way they want it, and yet they produce a product through this). Everything needs management, and the roots of this go right down to our childhood. When a baby can be born alone and grow up without any help from anyone else, we won't need government. The second someone says "we dont' need moderation of that", I'll point you to pedophiles, kidnappers, murderers and psychopaths that would raise the child up as a freak.

Government may be inherently evil, but our interest in creating one is natural and understandable. Government is a file system tree on your computer. You want chaos? Fine. Randomize your hard drive. No order! No one tells these bits what to do or where to go! Rather useless.

That's the brainwashing the matrix of B/S instilled in you: "lack of Government? Be afraid!"
...and an ironical negation of your sign.

I'll try to cure it with this quote:
"Before our white brothers came to civilize us we had no jails. Therefore we had no criminals. You can’t have criminals without a jail. We had no locks or keys, and so we had no thieves. If a man was so poor that he had no horse, tipi or blanket, someone gave him these things. We were too uncivilized to set much value on personal belongings. We wanted to have things only in order to give them away. We had no money, and therefore a man’s worth couldn’t be measured by it. We had no written law, no attorney or politicians, therefore we couldn’t cheat. We were in a really bad way before the white man came, and I don’t know how we managed to get along without the basic things which, we are told, are absolutely necessary to make a civilized society." - John Lame Deer, Seeker of Visions: The Life of a Sioux Medicine Man, Simon & Schuster; Revised edition (October 1, 1994)

That's some grade-A bullshit right there. Does John Lame Deer go on to explain how we went to space, cured diseases, etc with such a society? Oops.

Also, I am far from afraid of government or living without it. I believe however that as seekers of shelter and cooperation, we are inherently drawn to moderation for the fairness of the group. Such is government. I will not defend any government though, they need to defend their own practices.

[myrkul]

I believe however that as seekers of shelter and cooperation, we are inherently drawn to moderation for the fairness of the group. Such is government.

“It thus has been demonstrated a priori, to those of us who have faith in the principles of economic science, that the exception indicated above is not justified, and that the production of security, like anything else, should be subject to the law of free competition. Political economy has disapproved equally of monopoly and communism in the various branches of human activity, wherever it has found them. Is it not then strange and unreasonable that it accepts them in the security industry?”

-The Production of Security, 1849 (translated 1977)