[2015-03-13] IBM and Federal Reserve want to create a Bitcoin Knock-Off

[krigger]

Found here:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ibm-federal-reserve-want-create-bitcoin-knock-off/

Don't know if the source posted real news, but looks real to me.

[1Referee]

It is something that will or would happen anyway. Current world economy and fiat are well connected and won't part ways.

They will work on something that can bring their soo loved old financial system to a whole new level without losing any control.

[fancy_pants]

they should call it the debit card.

[db]

Transferring value by assigning it to new owners in a ledger has been done for thousands of years. Bitcoin is new because for the first time this can be done without a trusted ledger keeper. Technologically a centralised ledger is much more efficient. Bitcoin can compete because no real life ledger keepers can actually be trusted. They are too vulnerable to coercion and corruption.

According to the Reuters article these people want to use the less efficient Bitcoin technology and have in centrally controlled by vulnerable organisations, combining the worst of both worlds.

[cr1776]

Yeah, you don't need a blockchain for this, just IBM and the central banks maintaining a ledger.   It takes just the buzzwords and removes the benefits so that they can try to get in on the hype without anything real.

It uses a centralized blockchain so that you get something less secure than a decentralized leader that is more costly and less efficient than a regular ledger. 

Seems just a way to try and control something while trying to mislead everyone about the loss of security and benefits.

[Snipe85]

Sure, the news is most likely real, but the attempts mean nothing, it's the results that count.
Suddenly everybody wants to have their own crypto. Apple, Blizzard and now Dell... My prediction is they will all fail miserably.

[Armis]

I’m very encouraged by this news, I hope many other companies do the same.

As a direct result of so many bank failures some 15 years ago and more in ~2008 there was mass consolidation of banks -- super banks.  That hurt competition, and drove fees through the roof. 

So as soon as IBM or any other fortune 200 firm does this, particularly for reasons indicated by IBM, the world will be a less expensive place to do banking.

[Hazir]

I’m very encouraged by this news, I hope many other companies do the same.

As a direct result of so many bank failures some 15 years ago and more in ~2008 there was mass consolidation of banks -- super banks.  That hurt competition, and drove fees through the roof. 

So as soon as IBM or any other fortune 200 firm does this, particularly for reasons indicated by IBM, the world will be a less expensive place to do banking.

Armis, you are copy pasting this comment 2nd time as far as I can tell. Do you even read the news and understand what it is about? It is not good news at all, it just mean that IBM is just creating another altcoin on their own. I hate this because instead of perfecting bitcoin and stay focused on cryptorevolution they are just to grab cake for themselves.

[Armis]

I’m very encouraged by this news, I hope many other companies do the same.

As a direct result of so many bank failures some 15 years ago and more in ~2008 there was mass consolidation of banks -- super banks.  That hurt competition, and drove fees through the roof. 

So as soon as IBM or any other fortune 200 firm does this, particularly for reasons indicated by IBM, the world will be a less expensive place to do banking.

Armis, you are copy pasting this comment 2nd time as far as I can tell. Do you even read the news and understand what it is about? It is not good news at all, it just mean that IBM is just creating another altcoin on their own. I hate this because instead of perfecting bitcoin and stay focused on cryptorevolution they are just to grab cake for themselves.

Funny you should point out my 'copy and paste' but the authors are essentially repeating the same story over and over again, so we have different conversations on the same subject that I have the same reply about.   But to answer your question directly, yes I read the article; no, IBM isn't creating another altcoin, they are essentially only taking the bitcoin blockchain technology.

As I indicated in another thread, the greatest value about bitcoin is as follows: the community, the blockchain, the node network, the code, and the coin.  IBM has their own centralized network, and doesn't care about our community, code, or coin they just want our blockchain technology.  So there's no competition for the cryptocurrency world,  if anything its a blurring, or erasing, of the lines between corp and crypto, which is a good thing for all involved.

When the banks, insurance, legal, and govt start using blockchains to store content things will be faster, cheaper, and easier to store. 

[cbeast]

I’m very encouraged by this news, I hope many other companies do the same.

As a direct result of so many bank failures some 15 years ago and more in ~2008 there was mass consolidation of banks -- super banks.  That hurt competition, and drove fees through the roof. 

So as soon as IBM or any other fortune 200 firm does this, particularly for reasons indicated by IBM, the world will be a less expensive place to do banking.

Armis, you are copy pasting this comment 2nd time as far as I can tell. Do you even read the news and understand what it is about? It is not good news at all, it just mean that IBM is just creating another altcoin on their own. I hate this because instead of perfecting bitcoin and stay focused on cryptorevolution they are just to grab cake for themselves.

Funny you should point out my 'copy and paste' but the authors are essentially repeating the same story over and over again, so we have different conversations on the same subject that I have the same reply about.   But to answer your question directly, yes I read the article; no, IBM isn't creating another altcoin, they are essentially only taking the bitcoin blockchain technology.

As I indicated in another thread, the greatest value about bitcoin is as follows: the community, the blockchain, the node network, the code, and the coin.  IBM has their own centralized network, and doesn't care about our community, code, or coin they just want our blockchain technology.  So there's no competition for the cryptocurrency world,  if anything its a blurring, or erasing, of the lines between corp and crypto, which is a good thing for all involved.

When the banks, insurance, legal, and govt start using blockchains to store content things will be faster, cheaper, and easier to store. 

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

[LiteCoinGuy]

I’m very encouraged by this news, I hope many other companies do the same.

As a direct result of so many bank failures some 15 years ago and more in ~2008 there was mass consolidation of banks -- super banks.  That hurt competition, and drove fees through the roof.  

So as soon as IBM or any other fortune 200 firm does this, particularly for reasons indicated by IBM, the world will be a less expensive place to do banking.

Armis, you are copy pasting this comment 2nd time as far as I can tell. Do you even read the news and understand what it is about? It is not good news at all, it just mean that IBM is just creating another altcoin on their own. I hate this because instead of perfecting bitcoin and stay focused on cryptorevolution they are just to grab cake for themselves.

Funny you should point out my 'copy and paste' but the authors are essentially repeating the same story over and over again, so we have different conversations on the same subject that I have the same reply about.   But to answer your question directly, yes I read the article; no, IBM isn't creating another altcoin, they are essentially only taking the bitcoin blockchain technology.

As I indicated in another thread, the greatest value about bitcoin is as follows: the community, the blockchain, the node network, the code, and the coin.  IBM has their own centralized network, and doesn't care about our community, code, or coin they just want our blockchain technology.  So there's no competition for the cryptocurrency world,  if anything its a blurring, or erasing, of the lines between corp and crypto, which is a good thing for all involved.

When the banks, insurance, legal, and govt start using blockchains to store content things will be faster, cheaper, and easier to store.  

good point.

a centralized and unlimited coin would be a big faliure anyway.

[deisik]

Transferring value by assigning it to new owners in a ledger has been done for thousands of years. Bitcoin is new because for the first time this can be done without a trusted ledger keeper. Technologically a centralised ledger is much more efficient. Bitcoin can compete because no real life ledger keepers can actually be trusted. They are too vulnerable to coercion and corruption

I think it has much in common with the old argument of planned economy vs market economy. At first look it seems that planned economy, in which decisions regarding production and investment are made by a central authority, should be more efficient, but, as it often happens, the devil is in the details and the best-laid plans of men go astray...

[Armis]

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

[Hazir]

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

I am not a techy guy but from what I can understand from Mortified's post: blockchain alone is not enough and will give you nothing without a whole network of miners supporting transactions. So you can do nothing with blockchain without essentially creating a coin with similar properties to bitcoin.

[Armis]

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

I am not a techy guy but from what I can understand from Mortified's post: blockchain alone is not enough and will give you nothing without a whole network of miners supporting transactions. So you can do nothing with blockchain without essentially creating a coin with similar properties to bitcoin.

However I indicated that: "IBM has their own centralized network" larger and far more powerful (financially, politically, and electronically) than that of btc.   




   

[Hazir]

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

I am not a techy guy but from what I can understand from Mortified's post: blockchain alone is not enough and will give you nothing without a whole network of miners supporting transactions. So you can do nothing with blockchain without essentially creating a coin with similar properties to bitcoin.

However I indicated that: "IBM has their own centralized network" larger and far more powerful (financially, politically, and electronically) than that of btc.   

Oh. They have a huge network and power behind and that is one of my main concerns. Can IBM effectively copy bitcoin’s blockchain, and keep it as secure? Do you want them to create their 'altcoin' and then use their fiat centralized digital money or you will stay with decentralized bitcoin?

[Armis]

I suppose that is possible if they found a way to break the laws of known physics. You could conceivably create instantaneous blocks that propagate globally through some entanglement network. That would solve the Byzantine General's Problem without requiring Proof of Work. Or perhaps they invented a device that rewards miners with magic wishes rather than scarce tokens that can be traded. Either way, I'll await their White Paper with breathless anticipation.

Mort, would you explain that in American (English) please

I am not a techy guy but from what I can understand from Mortified's post: blockchain alone is not enough and will give you nothing without a whole network of miners supporting transactions. So you can do nothing with blockchain without essentially creating a coin with similar properties to bitcoin.

However I indicated that: "IBM has their own centralized network" larger and far more powerful (financially, politically, and electronically) than that of btc.  

Oh. They have a huge network and power behind and that is one of my main concerns. Can IBM effectively copy bitcoin’s blockchain, and keep it as secure? Do you want them to create their 'altcoin' and then use their fiat centralized digital money or you will stay with decentralized bitcoin?

I want both of those option, plus all other honest coins, and more centralized blockchains for big corps so they can reduce expensese.  As things get easier to do life gets cheaper to live.    Decentralization enables the world to dwarf any centralized super power however when that decentralized entity keeps hurting itself with scams and schemes it serves no one any good.  

Bring integrity to the world of CC.

[bitbouillion]

Central banks can create a Globalcoin, but how they wanna deal with currency fluctuations? Will be there exchanges around the world, where it is traded or will be there a global committee setting the exchange rates?

The other global currency before Bitcoin was gold but was abolished, declared illegal or a barbarous relic.

Bretton Woods failed and who the heck uses SRDs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

[lyth0s]

Central banks can create a Globalcoin, but how they wanna deal with currency fluctuations? Will be there exchanges around the world, where it is traded or will be there a global committee setting the exchange rates?

The other global currency before Bitcoin was gold but was abolished, declared illegal or a barbarous relic.

Bretton Woods failed and who the heck uses SRDs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

SDR's are only used by countries for now. If we have multicurrency failure the IMF may step in and each of the national currencies may be "backed" by SDR's since they have the lowest current leverage at about 3:1 while other countries like the US are 70-80:1.

[Armis]

Central banks can create a Globalcoin, but how they wanna deal with currency fluctuations? Will be there exchanges around the world, where it is traded or will be there a global committee setting the exchange rates?

The other global currency before Bitcoin was gold but was abolished, declared illegal or a barbarous relic.

Bretton Woods failed and who the heck uses SRDs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

Long before there were currency exchanges for cryptocurrencies there were currency exchanges for fiat -- they still exist.
In order to better appreciate the process, make the distinction between currency as a commodity and currency as a currency.
Currency as a commodity is the merchandise that you receive or trade away, where as currency as a currency is the means of exchange of good or services.  

The commodity's value is ever changing whereas the currency's value remains the same (face value). As a commodity BTC is worth about $280 however as a currency bitcoin is worth 1 bitc.   As a commodity the USD may be worth .70 GBP (www.xe.com) however as a currency it's worth is 1USD, 4 quarters, or 100 pennies.


Yes, there are currency exchanges around the world.  The exchange rates are set just like the exchange rates of cryptos, mostly by supply and demand (buyer and seller) but there is some influence by media, some by the trading systems (bots, mgmt), and some by regulators.
  
 
Gold was never "abolished" and still remains the most widely accepted tradable currency in the world.   Salt was a major global currency for a very long time too.