dogie (OP)
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March 14, 2015, 05:48:27 PM Last edit: March 18, 2015, 06:10:44 PM by dogie |
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CanaryInTheMine has previously come under fire for misusing his level 1 DefaultTrust position by adding users into his trust list in return for leaving him positive trust. This further increased Canary's own trust score and power, as well as the addition of many accounts added inappropriately to DefaultTrust. This included newbies, those abusing their level 2 trust and others running questionable operations. He has refused to chance his practises and is further now abusing that self given power at the detriment of the forums. When you put some numbers on the trust network, its pretty shocking case of abuse and centralisation of influence. There are currently 417 accounts in DefaultTrust lists, of which 211 (53%) are from Canary. 181 (100%) of people who left Canary 'trusted' trust are in DefaultTrust because Canary added them to it (+ some overlapers). What is more, he has started abusing his inappropriately self appointed power. He has ~trusted several accounts, including me, aggressively in order to inappropriately shield his own interests. CITM is heavily involved with ASICMiner. AirWolf - because he put a bounty on information regarding ASICMiner (to regain his investment) Silverspoon - because he was critical of ASICMiner SpanishSoldier - because he was critical of ASICMiner NotLambchop - because he was critical of ASICMiner (although he is a bit hash) And... me. CITM has refused to respond as to why he has ~'ed me and does not respond to PMs. Its one thing to buff his own ratings, but he is now directly inhibiting the very reason for default trust's existence for his own personal gain. There are currently 10 phising accounts, scam accounts or PM spammers that I am the only trust rating for, which are now unmarked. Canary should either be forced to alter his negative practises or face removal from DefaultTrust.
Edit: Canary has repeatedly dodged explaining why he has removed me from DefaultTrust, and refuses to be accountable for his actions. He has since left a negative trust rating for creating this thread and highlighting his abuse of the DefaultTrust system. These are the actions of a desperate man, not one fit to be in DefaultTrust. I absolutely do not trust dogie. No personal btc were risked, I simply do not trust him whatsoever.
Edit2: Canary has now been removed.
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Quickseller
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March 14, 2015, 06:07:28 PM |
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What is more concerning is the fact that so many people have left positive trust for FC that are on CITM's trust list that as of now 3 people in the default trust network have now left FC negative trust but FC's trust score is still +150, which is the highest. I ran some tests, and even with 5 negative trust ratings, CITM would still have +150 trust.
I checked a while ago and I think it was everyone that gave positive trust to FC was on CITM's trust list except for maybe one or two, and maybe one or two additional people are both on CITM's list and someone else's list.
As a result CITM was able to make FC and in turn ASICminer much more trustworthy then he really was.
Additionally almost (but maybe all of them) all of the instances where someone in the default trust network turned scammer, or was purchased by a scammer were account's that were on CITM's trust list.
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Finksy
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March 14, 2015, 06:38:55 PM |
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Interesting... ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photoforum.com.au%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D54067%26d%3D1314324937%26thumb%3D1&t=665&c=K6_V_45goXjZGQ) How many people have you left negative trust for that you've never carried out actual deals with, but rather do not like the way they conduct themselves on this forum? Also, Canary has openly criticized AM with these recent developments, and has been openly sharing information regarding the development of the BE300 (specifically lack thereof), as well as the management.
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Finksy
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March 14, 2015, 06:43:11 PM |
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Does this post sound like that of someone trying to protect the interests of AM? I shared what I know, didn't throw in the towel at all. My hope is to nudge fc out of his situation, hire a CEO and get rid of Dave and all other people who are not there to serve shareholders. There was serious infighting between fc and Dave. Fc is a young guy and people took advantage of him. He is now the fall guy, a scapegoat. The company didn't adjust as it grew with getting good business managers. Management didn't listen to good external business advise.
The board of directors FAILED the shareholders miserably. The board should have acted properly in shareholders interests, but what do you expect from a board made up of investors who purchased the seat instead of really doing it's fiduciary duty to the shareholders? Although a couple board members really tried. This david guy would be the last person I would invest a penny with (this is my personal view only). AM is bankrupt. The question now is, will certain people steal the IP from you the shareholders, find an investor and produce the chip with hopes of making personal gains out of this situation.
I have had a few deals with Canary, and he has been nothing but upstanding and honest. I have nothing to gain from this.
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dogie (OP)
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March 14, 2015, 07:14:24 PM Last edit: March 14, 2015, 07:46:37 PM by dogie |
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How many people have you left negative trust for that you've never carried out actual deals with, but rather do not like the way they conduct themselves on this forum?
You mean the people committing illegal acts and telling me to kill myself? That openly operate using shill accounts and refuse to reveal their main accounts? I am also NOT at trust level 1, nor do I have 180+ people in my trust list simply because they gave me positive trust.
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haploid23
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March 14, 2015, 07:22:07 PM |
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For someone with such a high position to appoint default trust, Canary does need to be removed for 1) not understanding how trust system works, or 2) understands it but deliberately misuse it. The latter is more true.
I've excluded him (and Maidak) from my trust list, not because I have beef against him, but simply because I don't want his massive trust list affecting mine. You can't add everyone and their mom to your trust list, otherwise all these newb's power are mis-appointed.
I suggest anyone who wants to complain about this also add a "~" to his account name. There are a handful of people that have already done this.
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Blazed
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March 14, 2015, 07:40:02 PM |
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That is a huge trust list...mine is 13 total (counting default and old scammer tag). I think it would probably be wise for him to look through the list and trim it down.
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dogie (OP)
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March 14, 2015, 07:45:17 PM Last edit: March 14, 2015, 07:59:47 PM by dogie |
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That is a huge trust list...mine is 13 total (counting default and old scammer tag). I think it would probably be wise for him to look through the list and trim it down.
It is insane, I'm going to post it in full just to demonstrate how silly it is. It is one solution but in the previous thread he was asked to do so and and ignored it. It would remove his own trust at the same time. CanaryInTheMine theymos Gavin Andresen jgarzik Luke-Jr Miner-TE eleuthria luv2drnkbr MemoryDealers Digigami gmaxwell E zapeta bitpop SebastianJu ipxtreme Philj os2sam yxt knybe conv3rsion bitcoin-rigs.com BitcoinEXpress Vod dtmcnamara John (John K.) notme Mushroomized greeners dribbits echris1 SaltySpitoon bitcoiner49er BadBear freshzive arklan glendall Pistachio tarrant_01 tbcoin ElideN TheJuice Bees Brothers Christoban Stale af_newbie eroxors camolist MrTeal cncguru Mendacium PsychoticBoy Dabs mem Namworld lky_svn 420 mr2dave DobZombie Adrian-x gektek johnny5 dyingdreams Zillions phrog Domrada Mapuo philipma1957 jborkl RicRock jmutch MonocleMan b!z CoinHoarder absinth mitty (^_^) soy super3 iluvpcs batt01 AirWolf xstr8guy MJGrae mobile nubbins ThickAsThieves hephaist0s Rawted BitcoinValet Timzim103 Rounder Nemo1024 TheXev ibminer Mooshire Benny1985 mrbrt hanti ssinc dogie Kaega finlof elchorizo fewerlaws bitterdog Swimmer63 locksmith9 Krellan Spendulus MikeMike statdude bluespaceant Hiroaki keeron Bigdaddyaz Polyatomic palmface flowdab SpaceCadet photon dwdoc xzempt jdany mackstuart bmoconno jdot007 mrtg maxpower Chris_Sabian xjack CommanderVenus daddyfatsax Plesk helipotte aurel57 gambitv boyohi LaserHorse joeventura xhomerx10 slashopt drofdelm canth zackclark70 cdogster DBOD addzz DefaultTrust DustMite pixl8tr namoom blblr Taugeran arc45 smscotten Cilantro chadtn kinger1331 guytechie rumlazy fractalbc fforforest KyrosKrane ZBC3 rj11248 bitdigger2013 Damnsammit jaslo BorisAlt ASICSAUCE sidehack steelcave Rotorgeek buyer99 daddyhutch digeros west17m Trillium BrianDeery ziggysisland devthedev ryhan zac2013 atomriot metal_jacke1 Apheration johoe spacebob 2byZi terrapinflyer cxboyminer BenTheRighteous gsr18 Paddy Jennifer Smith BITMAIN J_Dubbs BitcoinFr34k 00Smurf firejuan ldh37 thomslik argakiig Cheeseater ManeBjorn redsn0w Ski72 suchmoon Thai Silverspoon NotLambchop Spondoolies-Tech KaChingCoinDev SpanishSoldier sjc1490 Kialara MobyDick_Poloniex FACTOM
Yeah. That was font size 6.
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Muhammed Zakir
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March 15, 2015, 04:12:30 AM |
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That is a huge trust list...mine is 13 total (counting default and old scammer tag). I think it would probably be wise for him to look through the list and trim it down.
I PMed him twice to prune his trust list and gave the links to the discussion. He replied and IIRC, removed 1 user. I also recently PMed him(+few others) to tell about FC and others replied but he didn't. When I did the same to philipma1957, he pruned the list in some minutes after reviewing his trust list anf kept us updated in the thread. CanaryInTheMine told he is doing this to catch scammers fast because he has a HUGE list of people and they are efficient in catching. Gladly, theymos added a 'tidle' option to trust list and it is really useful.
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dogie (OP)
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March 15, 2015, 09:15:50 AM Last edit: March 15, 2015, 10:57:27 AM by dogie |
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Gladly, theymos added a 'tidle' option to trust list and it is really useful.
Which CITM is now also abusing *sigh*
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Muhammed Zakir
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March 15, 2015, 11:26:31 AM |
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Gladly, theymos added a 'tidle' option to trust list and it is really useful.
Which CITM is now also abusing *sigh* Understood what you meant. People who uses default trust list won't see your feedback as trusted but if they add any person who trusts you, then they can see your feedback as trusted. CanaryInTheMine's exclude list: AirWolf dogie cxboyminer Silverspoon NotLambchop SpanishSoldier
Actually, you should talk to him. He may not have seen your feedback as relevant and excluded you. In overall, I agree with you! He is misusing his power.
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abyrnes81
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March 15, 2015, 11:34:04 AM |
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I think every users should create his trust list and add only the people who trust. I have heard that trust list isn't moderated, isn't it? However I think dogie is an helpful user and I want to tell you "thanks" for your numerous fantastic threads.
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dogie (OP)
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March 15, 2015, 11:38:37 AM |
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Actually, you should talk to him. He may not have seen your feedback as relevant and excluded you. In overall, I agree with you! He is misusing his power.
I have tried to, he does not respond. I gave him some time to do so before posting here.
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TECSHARE
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March 15, 2015, 04:37:17 PM |
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And... me. CITM has refused to respond as to why he has ~'ed me and does not respond to PMs. Its one thing to buff his own ratings, but he is now directly inhibiting the very reason for default trust's existence for his own personal gain. I warned people about this when Theymos introduced this feature. I had the privilege of being the very first user to be paid retribution by Theymos personally for leaving a trust rating he didn't agree with and refusing to remove it. Trust exclusions (~) are a way for the highest ranking users in the trust system to have a back door quiet form of retribution to users that is more destructive than a negative trust rating. Not only does the individual user not trust the excluded user, but anyone who trusts that user will also exclude them from their trust by default, always siding with the highest ranking member. So in effect they are destroying already earned trust ratings just by excluding them, not leaving a single rating where they have to explain themselves. Since the exclusion cascades down the trust list, you could have 3 other people trusting you on the 2nd level default trust. Then if Theymos, or Canaryinthemine, or one of the highest ranking trust profiles excludes you, anyone who trusts the excluded user and also the default trust would no longer see the excluded user as being trusted. It is just a force multiplier for abuse, and this is just one of the first few cases of it. This system allows for honest traders to have their hard earned reputations extorted by people participating in popularity contests, mobs, account farming, and just plain old nepotism. Canaryinthemine is clearly negligent in maintaining his trust list at the very best if not purposely exploiting it for personal gain and to protect his buddies.
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Muhammed Zakir
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March 15, 2015, 05:06:39 PM |
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I warned people about this when Theymos introduced this feature. I had the privilege of being the very first user to be paid retribution by Theymos personally for leaving a trust rating he didn't agree with and refusing to remove it. Trust exclusions (~) are a way for the highest ranking users in the trust system to have a back door quiet form of retribution to users that is more destructive than a negative trust rating.
Not only does the individual user not trust the excluded user, but anyone who trusts that user will also exclude them from their trust by default, always siding with the highest ranking member. So in effect they are destroying already earned trust ratings just by excluding them, not leaving a single rating where they have to explain themselves. Since the exclusion cascades down the trust list, you could have 3 other people trusting you on the 2nd level default trust. Then if Theymos, or Canaryinthemine, or one of the highest ranking trust profiles excludes you, anyone who trusts the excluded user and also the default trust would no longer see the excluded user as being trusted. It is just a force multiplier for abuse, and this is just one of the first few cases of it. This system allows for honest traders to have their hard earned reputations extorted by people participating in popularity contests, mobs, account farming, and just plain old nepotism.
TL;DR: I was excluded, so this feature should be removed. It ia really helpful. I could exclude CanaryInTheMine and other, who are trusted by persons I trust, who misuses trust system. Canaryinthemine is clearly negligent in maintaining his trust list at the very best if not purposely exploiting it for personal gain and to protect his buddies.
He isn't ready to invest some time on pruning his trust list though it is mist for him if he wants to be in DefaultTrust trust list.
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dogie (OP)
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March 15, 2015, 06:39:51 PM |
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It ia really helpful. I could exclude CanaryInTheMine and other, who are trusted by persons I trust, who misuses trust system. Canaryinthemine is clearly negligent in maintaining his trust list at the very best if not purposely exploiting it for personal gain and to protect his buddies.
He isn't ready to invest some time on pruning his trust list though it is mist for him if he wants to be in DefaultTrust trust list. The major problem is that CITM is at depth 1, it gives him power above all else especially when he abuses the system for his own gain by selling seats to 50% of DefaultTrust. And in his persuance of that, no one else can stop him removing others from DefaultTrust. There could be 200 other depth 2s that add someone to their trust, but as long as CITM removes them, that's it. Lets take a look at who is at depth 1: The first category is comprised of staff Theymos - We trust him implicitly as an admin BadBear - We trust him implicitly as an admin SaltySpitoon - Global moderator Maged - Global moderator HostFat - Staff dserrano5 - Staff OldScammerTag - Defunct but just how that 'feature' worked The second includes escrows and account markers Tomatocage - Marked 100s of false accounts and acts as an escrow escrow.ms - Marked many false accounts and acts as an escrow OgNasty - Acts as an escrow DeaDTerra - Runs investment securities Then some left over accounts dooglus - Runs just-dice, marks many likely HYIPs [arguably conflict of interest] philipma1957 - Bought and sold some hardware And finally we have CanaryInTheMine, someone who bought and sold some hardware, and then aggressively abused the hell out of the trust system. That doesn't make any sense.
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TECSHARE
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March 15, 2015, 10:52:08 PM |
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It ia really helpful. I could exclude CanaryInTheMine and other, who are trusted by persons I trust, who misuses trust system.
I would agree if it mean excluding peoples trust for your account personally, but when you make exclusions as a highly ranked member you automatically make people untrusted by excluding them. It is way more destructive to a persons trust rating than leaving a negative trust rating. It is a tool of extortion, not a balancing force as currently deployed.
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CanaryInTheMine
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between a rock and a block!
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March 16, 2015, 04:41:49 AM |
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I do not trust you because of your misconduct with several manufacturers, therefore I added a tilde in front of your name. That's the reason, I choose not to trust you.
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Bicknellski
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March 16, 2015, 07:40:15 AM |
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I do not trust you because of your misconduct with several manufacturers, therefore I added a tilde in front of your name. That's the reason, I choose not to trust you.
Removed my positive rating of Dogie for the same reason. Basically his use of these boards is merely to further his advertising sales. Inducing flame wars and bump spam in popular threads is part of that game. Not really seen any overt abuse by CITM of the system he seems to discuss issues with others and resolves them when there are problems. Dogie has no real leg to stand on given his abuses of the trust system.
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SaltySpitoon
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Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?
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March 16, 2015, 07:51:08 AM |
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I do not trust you because of your misconduct with several manufacturers, therefore I added a tilde in front of your name. That's the reason, I choose not to trust you.
Hmm interesting, I don't have any say in the matter, but I am curious. Why would you not just leave Dogie negative feedback if you didn't trust him, rather than excluding him from being trusted by others? Seems a little bit harsh. I don't know too much surrounding all of the parties involved with all of the hardware producing companies and the recent shenanigans, and I don't make judgements unless I'm involved or have a significant amount of information proving something, but just because you don't trust Dogie, is your reason strong enough that others shouldn't be able to make their own decisions and add Dogie to their trust lists?
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