World's First Bitcoin Lawsuit - Cartmell v. Bitcoinica

[MemoryDealers]

It's flabbergasting that Patrick, Amir, and Donald of Interstango refused to even lift a finger to help everyone get part of their money back.
Instead they have actively worked to block the easiest solutions for everyone involved.
They should be ashamed. 

[1714702328]

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[1714702328]

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[iCEBREAKER]

Feel free to have a laugh at my expense.

OK, how's this?  

[Monster Tent]

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

No more flabbergasting than people handing over millions to some guy offering 7% a week or some company promising to deliver a machine that mines unicorns.

[Herodes]

It's flabbergasting that Patrick, Amir, and Donald of Interstango refused to even lift a finger to help everyone get part of their money back.
Instead they have actively worked to block the easiest solutions for everyone involved.
They should be ashamed.  

Yes, that's flabbergasting as well. But as we've all realized by now, some people have no shame at all.

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

No more flabbergasting than people handing over millions to some guy offering 7% a week or some company promising to deliver a machine that mines unicorns.

Agreed.

[jgarzik]

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

+1000

Well, first, it is amazing that high profile bitcoin luminaries would keep any amount of serious money on a remote website.  When bitcoinica first appeared, pretty much 100% of bitcoin web wallets had been hacked and most had been DDoS'd as well.  Your own encrypted, decentralized, backed up computer is far more secure than (at that time) that proven track record.

And, as you say, who would trust that much money to a teen running a fly-by-night website, who had no experience in the area of finance in question?  Especially given HK's reputation it seemed likely that Bitcoinica was a bucket shop or possibly associated with organized crime in some way.

[tvbcof]

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

+1000

Well, first, it is amazing that high profile bitcoin luminaries would keep any amount of serious money on a remote website.  When bitcoinica first appeared, pretty much 100% of bitcoin web wallets had been hacked and most had been DDoS'd as well.  Your own encrypted, decentralized, backed up computer is far more secure than (at that time) that proven track record.

And, as you say, who would trust that much money to a teen running a fly-by-night website, who had no experience in the area of finance in question?  Especially given HK's reputation it seemed likely that Bitcoinica was a bucket shop or possibly associated with organized crime in some way.

Agree, and put my money where my mouth was (withdrew all that I had won but a token amount), but I'll produce a couple of counter-arguments for the fun of it.

1) A forex-style market such as Bitcoinica probably did have some legitimate and valuable uses to those wishing to undertake certain financial activities in the nascent Bitcoin economy.  I think I remember a few people at least claiming to use the service in this way...amid the thousand using it as a simple gaming platform.

2) The site was surprisingly functional for some time, and Mr. Tong showed an impressive aptitude for fairness and professionalism over a decent amount of time.

My defenses aside, I was also a bit taken aback at the amount of money that people trusted (and lost) to the platform.

[MemoryDealers]

Had Patrick, Amir and Donald cooperated, not a single penny would have been lost by Bitcoinica customers.
Instead everyone except the lawyers will loose.
Shame on the Intersango trio of Patrick, Amir and Donald.

[Herodes]

Had Patrick, Amir and Donald cooperated, not a single penny would have been lost by Bitcoinica customers.
Instead everyone except the lawyers will loose.
Shame on the Intersango trio of Patrick, Amir and Donald.

For some people, unless they can physically feel that what they did have consequences, they're just psycopaths that doesn't care about others. Not saying any of the 3 are, but at the same time not ruling out the possibility.

[smoothie]

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

I know right? Sound a lot like how people threw millions of $ at BFL and still no product. "TAKE MY MONEY!" lol

[smoothie]

It's flabbergasting that Patrick, Amir, and Donald of Interstango refused to even lift a finger to help everyone get part of their money back.
Instead they have actively worked to block the easiest solutions for everyone involved.
They should be ashamed. 

I would be ashamed if I sent 25,000 BTC to some guys that just put up a website and promised me a % interest on my deposit.

Isn't it enough that bitcoins have been appreciating like crazy in $ terms? Yet you had to try to get a % gain on your initial capital?

Perhaps you should publicly admit that it was a bad idea and that you are also partly at fault for your losses.

No one made you send them that much BTC.

[Herodes]

Perhaps you should publicly admit that it was a bad idea and that you are also partly at fault for your losses.

It was not the best idea by MemoryDealers, but the responsibility for  Bitcoinica fiasco was not on his hands. I doubt he'd repeat this with a new similar site though.

The outlook one must have is basically to be very sceptical, and don't put more money on the table than you can stand to lose entirely.

[bg002h]

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

No more flabbergasting than people handing over millions to some guy offering 7% a week or some company promising to deliver a machine that mines unicorns.

+1
These examples make teen investing sound wise...

[Transisto]

Teen ? More money was lost after the website was handed over to intersango and Tihan than prior. Anyway I don't see how trying to set the blame on investors at this time help in any way.

[dancingnancy]

Anyway I don't see how trying to set the blame on investors at this time help in any way.

It helps if it prevents people from making the same mistakes in the future.

If you can't protect it, you don't actually own it. It's unfortunate it has to be this way, but it's a fact of life.

You could say that about a lot of things.  In the end, you will probably end up sleeping with all your cash and btc tucked under your mattress at night.

[hardcore-fs]

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

+1000

Well, first, it is amazing that high profile bitcoin luminaries would keep any amount of serious money on a remote website.  When bitcoinica first appeared, pretty much 100% of bitcoin web wallets had been hacked and most had been DDoS'd as well.  Your own encrypted, decentralized, backed up computer is far more secure than (at that time) that proven track record.

And, as you say, who would trust that much money to a teen running a fly-by-night website, who had no experience in the area of finance in question?  Especially given HK's reputation it seemed likely that Bitcoinica was a bucket shop or possibly associated with organized crime in some way.

Actually HK has a GOOD reputation for bringing people to court and preventing web fraud/scams, BUT only If you contact the Cyber enforcement team in the HK police force.
Don't think for a moment that a scammer is safe in HK, However be clear that *many*  HK scammers are actually mainlanders using a dummy address in HK.

[ninjarobot]

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

Actually I was under the impression that I deposited my money at a registered financial services provider in NZ, backed by reputable VC and operated by the respected Bitcoin Community that performed a thorough security audit beforehand. I also waited until they had a reasonable TOS in place.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/&hl=en&tbo=d&strip=1

Clearly I was wrong, so I give you that.

I also assumed that:

* Good user-facing security (enforcing strong passwords + OTP) suggested good security in the backend. Another mistake. They did not even bother making backups.

* Businesses care about their customers. Wrong again.

Needless to say, I learned a few lessons since then. Now I keep my coins in a paper wallet. Not too happy about that, but it will be some time before I trust my coins to any 3rd party again.

[Herodes]

It's flabbergasting that people deposited serious amounts of money on a website, created by a teen in 4 days.

Actually I was under the impression that I deposited my money at a registered financial services provider in NZ, backed by reputable VC and operated by the respected Bitcoin Community that performed a thorough security audit beforehand. I also waited until they had a reasonable TOS in place.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/&hl=en&tbo=d&strip=1

Clearly I was wrong, so I give you that.

I also assumed that:

* Good user-facing security (enforcing strong passwords + OTP) suggested good security in the backend. Another mistake. They did not even bother making backups.

* Businesses care about their customers. Wrong again.

Needless to say, I learned a few lessons since then. Now I keep my coins in a paper wallet. Not too happy about that, but it will be some time before I trust my coins to any 3rd party again.

I'm sorry for any losses you may have had. I guess you also learned a lesson. It was quite apparent that there was a lot of questionable stuff going on at the time. Personally I followed it on the sideline, and  when I heard that Bitcoin Consultancy was going to be involved, then I knew it was going to go pear shaped. Certainly, never believe all that you read, and do you own research. A legitimate company is always interested in talking to prospective customers that have hard questions. Yes, you're right that they received funding, and the entire business were going to be handed over to a new party, and that's when all the mess happened. Clearly it's an inside job.

[bbit]

Coinjar?

[legitnick]

I knew my odds of getting any of the 150+ bitcoins I had in bitcoinica (just sitting there, not in any position) were always low and ever decreasing, but I'm assuming this lawsuit means that the chances of me getting any of that back have dropped to essentially zero.  That was a lot easier to shrug off when they were trading for $4.something a pop.

[ninjarobot]

Does anyone know what the current status on this is?

The link to the case stopped working since the website has undergone renovation...