UK's Plans to Regulate Bitcoin

[BillyBobZorton]

That's your opinion.  Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance?  Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

If people have trust issues with decentralised exchanges or completely unregulated exchanges then they will favour the exchanges which provide a safer, highly regulated environment.  If many people feel this way then such exchanges will thrive, while the sketchy exchanges will remain illiquid and collapse regularly.

All government regulations achieve here is to remove some freedom from the people.  People are being denied the freedom to experiment.  This is defended as: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and fail" but what is left unsaid is: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and succeed".

If you feel that when you know better than other people how they should handle their money and further that you have a moral duty to control these people for their own good then we're opposed in principle and will likely never agree.

I still don't know what a decentralized exchange is...

A decentralized exchange means you don't have to store your bitcoins somewhere else, it's like P2P exchange.. or something along the lines. I have no idea how day trading would work tho.

[deisik]

That's your opinion.  Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance?  Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

If people have trust issues with decentralised exchanges or completely unregulated exchanges then they will favour the exchanges which provide a safer, highly regulated environment.  If many people feel this way then such exchanges will thrive, while the sketchy exchanges will remain illiquid and collapse regularly.

All government regulations achieve here is to remove some freedom from the people.  People are being denied the freedom to experiment.  This is defended as: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and fail" but what is left unsaid is: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and succeed".

If you feel that when you know better than other people how they should handle their money and further that you have a moral duty to control these people for their own good then we're opposed in principle and will likely never agree.

I still don't know what a decentralized exchange is...

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

[minerbit hill]

I'm really concerned that this could be an issue for newcomers.

[pedrog]

That's your opinion.  Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance?  Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

If people have trust issues with decentralised exchanges or completely unregulated exchanges then they will favour the exchanges which provide a safer, highly regulated environment.  If many people feel this way then such exchanges will thrive, while the sketchy exchanges will remain illiquid and collapse regularly.

All government regulations achieve here is to remove some freedom from the people.  People are being denied the freedom to experiment.  This is defended as: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and fail" but what is left unsaid is: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and succeed".

If you feel that when you know better than other people how they should handle their money and further that you have a moral duty to control these people for their own good then we're opposed in principle and will likely never agree.

I still don't know what a decentralized exchange is...

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

So, I does someone buy bitcoin in such an exchange?

I have a bank account full of euros and I ant to buy a few bitcoin, how would that go?

[deisik]

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

So, I does someone buy bitcoin in such an exchange?

I have a bank account full of euros and I ant to buy a few bitcoin, how would that go?

I guess you won't be able to directly buy bitcoins with euros using this exchange, since the currency of the BitShares blockchain is, well, BitShares, which is used as a collateral for so-called BitAssets (bitUSD, bitEuro, bitBTC), the price of which (denominated in BitShares) corresponds the price of the underlying, that is USD, Euro, BTC...

[pedrog]

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

So, I does someone buy bitcoin in such an exchange?

I have a bank account full of euros and I ant to buy a few bitcoin, how would that go?

I guess you won't be able to directly buy bitcoins with euros using this exchange, since the currency of the BitShares blockchain is, well, BitShares, which is used as a collateral for so-called BitAssets (bitUSD, bitEuro, bitBTC), the price of which (denominated in BitShares) corresponds the price of the underlying, that is USD, Euro, BTC...

So it is not an alternative to the kind of exchanges we already have, like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, plus it seems a lot more complicated than current exchanges for someone who just wants to buy a few bitcoins.

[deisik]

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

So, I does someone buy bitcoin in such an exchange?

I have a bank account full of euros and I ant to buy a few bitcoin, how would that go?

I guess you won't be able to directly buy bitcoins with euros using this exchange, since the currency of the BitShares blockchain is, well, BitShares, which is used as a collateral for so-called BitAssets (bitUSD, bitEuro, bitBTC), the price of which (denominated in BitShares) corresponds the price of the underlying, that is USD, Euro, BTC...

So it is not an alternative to the kind of exchanges we already have, like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, plus it seems a lot more complicated than current exchanges for someone who just wants to buy a few bitcoins.

It is a decentralized exchange, so you don't bear the risk of your money being stolen by any exchange like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, and their kind. It seems complicated, that's why you probably didn't understand the technology behind it before. But now, I hope, you do...

[pedrog]

It is a decentralized exchange, so you don't bear the risk of your money being stolen by any exchange like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, and their kind. It seems complicated, that's why you probably didn't understand the technology behind it before. But now, I hope, you do...

Sure, but if it isn't an alternative to current exchanges and it is not suitable for 'average people' to use it, its impact on bitcoin's economy is going to be negligible.

It may be good for altcoin exchanges thought.

[deisik]

It is a decentralized exchange, so you don't bear the risk of your money being stolen by any exchange like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, and their kind. It seems complicated, that's why you probably didn't understand the technology behind it before. But now, I hope, you do...

Sure, but if it isn't an alternative to current exchanges and it is not suitable for 'average people' to use it, its impact on bitcoin's economy is going to be negligible.

It may be good for altcoin exchanges thought.

I simply can't imagine how it would be possible to make a decentralized exchange allowing to trade directly all the currencies out there (dollars, euro, bitcoins). Whenever I think about it, I come to the same idea that is already implemented in the BitShares blockchain. Theoretically, the bitcoin blockchain could mirror the BitShares functionality in the future, but that would be a hell of a change...

[gentlemand]

I simply can't imagine how it would be possible to make a decentralized exchange allowing to trade directly all the currencies out there (dollars, euro, bitcoins). Whenever I think about it, I came to same idea that is already implemented in the BitShares blockchain. Theoretically, the bitcoin blockchain could mirror the BitShares functionality in the future, but that would be a huge change...

The personage who mentioned this in the first place phrased it as 'exchanging with each other in a decentralised format'. That's pretty much a localbitcoins or bitcoin.de that maybe bypasses a vulnerable website. Or perhaps there's something very impressive up their sleeve.

[countryfree]

I'm not afraid, I'm sure there will be a minimum. Say if you want to buy 50 BTC, you will have to explain where your money comes from.

This is why in China, they started to buy mining gear instead of Bitcoin itself in order to get money out of their country once the government came down on it.  Even if the profitability of mining decreases, hash keeps going up from things like this (as well as technical advances obviously).

So just how effective are these AML laws when people can just buy hardware instead?

Regulation will come afterwards, when people will look for ways to exchange their freshly mined coins into fiat.

[teukon]

A small price to pay for not getting goxxed, vircurexed, GBLed, and many others.

Amateur hour is over!

Study: 45 percent of Bitcoin exchanges end up closing: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/26/large-bitcoin-exchanges-attacks

That's your opinion.  Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance?  Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

To clarify: "A small price to pay for not getting goxxed, vircurexed, GBLed, and many others." is an opinion.  One could just as easily consider the price too high.

Certainly scammers will scam, just as regulators will regulate, but such observations do not magically render the subjective objective.

[r0ach]

I'm not afraid, I'm sure there will be a minimum. Say if you want to buy 50 BTC, you will have to explain where your money comes from.

This is why in China, they started to buy mining gear instead of Bitcoin itself in order to get money out of their country once the government came down on it.  Even if the profitability of mining decreases, hash keeps going up from things like this (as well as technical advances obviously).

So just how effective are these AML laws when people can just buy hardware instead?

Regulation will come afterwards, when people will look for ways to exchange their freshly mined coins into fiat.

They don't really have to exchange to fiat, unless you're implying holding BTC is risky.

[ajareselde]

Wild west of bitcoin must come to an end, and its obvious that regulations are the first step to legalising bitcoin related businesses and activities.
I dont see why people are against it, did u not have enough of exchange scams already?
Im not saying there will be no more scams present, but its the first step to make it a safer place for all of us, and its a step in the right direction.

cheers

[elvizzzzzzz]

"regulations are the first step to legalising bitcoin"

I, for one am totally convinced by your logic.
I am willing to provide the self regulation that bitcoinUK clearly needs.
Just pm me with your proposed transaction, 0.1BTC fee, (I'm
still working on the reason for that, this is a work in progress after all)
private keys, family history, medical history, (you can't be too careful)
current bank details and full details last year's transactions, (GCHQ knows this
already and you have nothing to hide, right? so no problem there)

!!! Nearly forgot ;-) just in case I get accused of Money Laundering,
I'll need your passport details and date of birth. I don't actually need these
right now but they might come in handy later - I'll trust you to send
them on if you don't have them handy.

Yes .. April 1st can't come soon enough ... ;-)

[teukon]

"regulations are the first step to legalising bitcoin"

I, for one am totally convinced by your logic.
I am willing to provide the self regulation that bitcoinUK clearly needs.
Just pm me with your proposed transaction, 0.1BTC fee, (I'm
still working on the reason for that, this is a work in progress after all)
private keys, family history, medical history, (you can't be too careful)
current bank details and full details last year's transactions, (GCHQ knows this
already and you have nothing to hide, right? so no problem there)

!!! Nearly forgot ;-) just in case I get accused of Money Laundering,
I'll need your passport details and date of birth. I don't actually need these
right now but they might come in handy later - I'll trust you to send
them on if you don't have them handy.

Yes .. April 1st can't come soon enough ... ;-)

Awesome!  I've been looking everywhere for an exchange aspiring to provide an experience on par with the major banks.

Do you have plans to randomly freeze accounts due to "suspicious activity" where the details are withheld from the account holders for the purposes of "security and fraud-prevention"?

[BitCoinNutJob]

"the government's plan to apply anti-money laundering (AML) regulations to digital currency exchanges." As a possible UK-based firm, this would impact me hugely! I'm not saying this isn't a good idea, however, isn't the purpose of Bitcoin to get away from the government control, fiat currencies, corruption, and taxes? How will they go about regulating me?

Yeah part of the purpose of bitcoin is that from our point of view but many people see bitcoin differently like many people see the internet differently.

[Sefton]

I'm really concerned that this could be an issue for newcomers.

Can you elaborate on that please as it doesn't really make any sense. Regulation isn't such the dirty word you may think it is. It will probably attract more newcommers to bitcoin in fact as people will start to see it as a legitimate and viable currency.

[indiemax]

like it or not regulation has to come to Bitcoin for it to compete with fiat

and compete it will 

[1K]

A decentralized exchange means you don't have to store your bitcoins somewhere else, it's like P2P exchange.. or something along the lines. I have no idea how day trading would work tho.

I imagine they'd work in a similar way to normal exchanges. You put your orders in and when they're accepted you just have to send the coins otherwise someone else will likely get them before you. some sort of 2 or 3 escrow may be used as well. I'm interested to see how they deal with certain issues, though.