[Vod] I need an explanation from him

[alani123]

I don't see where the problem is. Microsoft does little to nothing for keys distributed from unauthorised resellers or even illegally. They never de-activate keys. Big part of their profits come from software licencing to businesses. I've installed cracked versions of windows seven on all my family's computers and they've had no problems what so ever. Cracked versions of windows receive free updates in the same way that a copy purchased from an authorised reseller would do. That's how it worked from the time windows had online updates and that how it's going to be for windows 10.

Piracy might be immoral but it's not prosecuted, although illegal (at least that's what's like in most of the world). The receiving party is almost never on the wrong side of the law. Microsoft also doesn't go after pirates and people that distribute their software products without authorisation. At least not for those that do it in a small scale. So Vod, my suggestion is that you should tone it down a little bit. You're not Microsoft's guard dog are you? If such posts are allowed don't make people that post em have a bad time.

Why you stupid and would do not read the posts in this thread: [Vod] I need an explanation from him

Alright, relax. I'm just getting my thoughts out here while trying to help. Maybe Vod will reconsider if he hears the opinion of some other forum members as well.

[TECSHARE]

I don't see where the problem is. Microsoft does little to nothing for keys distributed from unauthorised resellers or even illegally. They never de-activate keys. Big part of their profits come from software licencing to businesses. I've installed cracked versions of windows seven on all my family's computers and they've had no problems what so ever. Cracked versions of windows receive free updates in the same way that a copy purchased from an authorised reseller would do. That's how it worked from the time windows had online updates and that how it's going to be for windows 10.

Piracy might be immoral but it's not prosecuted, although illegal (at least that's what's like in most of the world). The receiving party is almost never on the wrong side of the law. Microsoft also doesn't go after pirates and people that distribute their software products without authorisation. At least not for those that do it in a small scale. So Vod, my suggestion is that you should tone it down a little bit. You're not Microsoft's guard dog are you? If such posts are allowed don't make people that post em have a bad time.

Why you stupid and would do not read the posts in this thread: [Vod] I need an explanation from him

Alright, relax. I'm just getting my thoughts out here while trying to help. Maybe Vod will reconsider if he hears the opinion of some other forum members as well.

Obviously the OP's English is not that great. I don't think he understood that you were basically questioning VOD's behavior and became defensive by default. After all, I personally don't blame him, does anyone ever really back anyone else up around here or is it usually more like a lottery for a weekly witch burning?

[Muhammed Zakir]

Please read. Vod's feedback is appropriate IMHO.

At worst it is a violation of contract law, which would be a CIVIL case. It is however NOT a violation of CRIMINAL law, so there is a very big difference. Violations of CRIMINAL LAW are not allowed on the forum. This is what VOD was disingenuously trying to frame this as so he could manipulate staff into acting on his extortion for him.

I understand. Thank you for telling! But did you check Vod's trust feedback? It does have a relevant point but the second last line of the negative feedback may not be approved.

This user is selling Microsoft product keys they get from MSDN subscriptions. This is not allowed. Microsoft does not sell product keys without Certificate of Authenticity.

All it will take is a single person to report his illegal purchase of a Microsoft key (even someone who intentionally buys just to report), then Microsoft can trace it back to the original MSDN subscription that generated that key.

ALL keys generated from that MSDN account will then become invalidated (i.e. stop working) and FuckIdolPlus will NOT give you your money back.

This is a scam. Do not purchase keys from this account!

The bottom line, if you want to become a reseller, you need to become a Microsoft Partner who resells the entire package, not just product keys.
 =snip=
you bought an MSDN licensed key, which carries up to 10 activations unlike full packaged retail licenses which only carry 1 activation. The person who sold it to you probably sold it to 10 other persons. Somewhere along the way, one of those persons might have installed it on a second system, activated it, because it went past 10 activation threshold, Microsoft detected it that it was being abused and blocked the key from further use.

=snip=

Edit:

The TOS is a contract between Microsoft and the person who is using the key. Violating the TOS of something, alone is not a crime. Although what the OP is doing may be against federal anti-piracy laws (I am really not sure on this)

This might be different case but I think this is appropriate.

Example of how your tips are used.

 
F.B.I. and Chinese Seize $500 Million of Counterfeit Software

A multi-year investigation by Chinese police investigators and the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation led to the dismantling of a piracy ring responsible for pirating and distributing up to $2 billion of software. The two-year investigation led to the demise of two criminal organizations - located in Shanghai and Shenzhen - and included up to 25 arrests according to officials from both nations. Microsoft, in gathering evidence it later handed over to the F.B.I. and to Chinese authorities, said more than 1,000 people had notified the company and sent in counterfeit discs. The consumers who sent in the pirated discs were apparently unaware they had purchased illegal software until a notification popped up on their screens. The F.B.I. said that a joint effort with the Chinese authorities had led to the seizing of more than $500 million worth of counterfeit Microsoft and Symantec software that was being made in China and distributed worldwide.

The arrests, according to industry executives, represented the most significant crackdown on software piracy. In the last couple of weeks, the operation led to the seizing by the Chinese government of 290,000 counterfeit discs and certificates of authenticity. The F.B.I. said that Chinese officials had seized more than 47,000 counterfeit Microsoft discs.

[alani123]

@Muhammed Zakir

We get many "immoral" things that are allowed to be sold or marketed through this forum. While against Microsoft's TOS, Vod shouldn't leave negative feedback to sellers just because he thinks it's right to do so. What they did was not disallowed to be done in the forum. Maybe Vod could talk with Theymos and Badbear about potential new rules instead of handing out negative trust ratings. His ratings are particularly harmful as long as he's in the default trust.

[worhiper_-_]

Will Vod be removed from default trust? The suspense continues.     

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999040.msg10847419#msg10847419

[TECSHARE]

Microsoft, in gathering evidence it later handed over to the F.B.I. and to Chinese authorities, said more than 1,000 people had notified the company and sent in counterfeit discs.

The seller is not selling the software itself, only a LEGALLY OBTAINED registration key. This is a BIG DIFFERENCE, and no his trust rating is not appropriate. He simply evoked the criminal aspect of this so he could manipulate the staff into doing his extorting for him because criminal activity is not allowed on the forum. This is very clearly 100% a TOS violation, and a CIVIL case at best NOT A CRIMINAL CASE.

[SellMaster3000]

Hi there,

I'm one of the MS key sellers and of course we are all bummed by the negative trust Vod gave us. We are doing something that is morally wrong, but the people that browse this website know what they are doing and are accepting certain risks (not saying I don't refund/scam or whatever). The things we do can't be justified by saying other 'illegal/morally incorrect' businesses are allowed on this forum. We know what we are doing and so do our customers.

Still, I totally agree with Vod's opinion of us, I do the same thing with other threads. Apparently Vod uses his power on this forum to express his opinion and I respect that. The only thing I'm asking you though, is if you are going to fight our 'illegal/morally incorrect' business, you should fight them all.

Have a nice day,

Jake

[Fortify]

So I only skimmed the first page and this has probably been brought up before, but Vod seems to have a serious conflict of interest at play here, if he is directly or indirectly employed by Microsoft. Plenty of stuff in the digital goods section falls under the classification of "shady" but this guy actively targeting anything Microsoft related. Now, I respect Vod and he's done a lot of good for these boards, but this is no more "illegal" than half the other stuff in there which are given a free pass. You're not helping the board, you're just helping your employer in this situation.

[Fortify]

So I only skimmed the first page and this has probably been brought up before, but Vod seems to have a serious conflict of interest at play here, if he is directly or indirectly employed by Microsoft. Plenty of stuff in the digital goods section falls under the classification of "shady" but this guy actively targeting anything Microsoft related. Now, I respect Vod and he's done a lot of good for these boards, but this is no more "illegal" than half the other stuff in there which are given a free pass. You're not helping the board, you're just helping your employer in this situation.

Hmm...Why did you not read what I write in this topic.

1. He received money from other sellers to stop me selling the key here (goal is to compete in the business)

2. He is working a lack of fairness and transparency (Why he did not check my key he gave me a feedback)

Look buddy, I was defending you, you really should understand what people are saying before attacking them. As far as I know, there is no evidence he was receiving money from other sellers, he works for Microsoft - that is the only reason he wants NO ONE selling MSDN keys.

[tidus1097]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=801840

You clearly state you sell Microsoft keys.  This is a SCAM, since as soon as your stolen/hacked MSDN subscription expires (are you going to pay to renew it?), all the keys you have sold will become invalid.

I give one chance to remove negative feedback.  Read my signature, clearly make it known you are not selling product keys, and in a month I will remove the negative feedback.  If you choose to continue selling scammy products, do not contact me in the future to remove negative feedback.  You will have to work to gain positive feedback from good trades with trusted members.

Hmm...The keys are not blocked and working lifetime.

When you give a feedback for me, why you did not check my keys and why you do not see the feedback from my customers

PS: Are you working lack of objectivity and fairness here...Right ?

I want to know why these people do not leave feedback for them and why was I while I do not sell the key MSDN

Why not do this then. Add a note to your thread that says "Not responsible if sometime in the future the key may become invalid. I'll give 1 month of Warranty and if no issues occur within the 1 month then no refund can be given. If they are a issue arise in the month, btc will be refunded."

As long as you hold true to your word then the feedback should be updated. Whether it is or not is a different situtation. From the looks of it, Vod don't want you selling the keys. Someone stated earlier that he works for Microsoft in a different thread, but I don't know nor care. But one things for sure, he clearly has a big ego.

[alani123]

symantec, Vod's rating shouldn't affect your sales. If you're honest with people and show no intention to scam they're gonna buy from you eventually.

[ABitNut]

The keys that to symantec is selling are not legit. They do come from MSDN. Whether they work to activate a product or not is not really relevant. Even if they do activate the product they do not grant you a licence to use the product. Using the product without a licence means you're liable for software piracy. It also means that the product key can be cancelled at any time.

Vod's feedback seems spot on. Buyer beware. And symantec, don't play dumb. You know you're breaking the rules.

[Fiiasco]

Vod have changed his neutral feedback to a negative one on TECSHARE's trust. I don't get how TECSHARE is untrustworthy as a result of that though. 

[TECSHARE]

The keys that to symantec is selling are not legit. They do come from MSDN. Whether they work to activate a product or not is not really relevant. Even if they do activate the product they do not grant you a licence to use the product. Using the product without a licence means you're liable for software piracy. It also means that the product key can be cancelled at any time.

Vod's feedback seems spot on. Buyer beware. And symantec, don't play dumb. You know you're breaking the rules.

The keys are legitimately obtained. Selling them is not a crime. Selling them is not against forum rules. Downloading software may be criminal, but that is not the responsibility of the seller, the forum, or anyone else but the one downloading the software. Also this is NOT universally illegal in all jurisdictions. Additionally, Windows doesn't just deactivate operating systems linked to invalid registration keys, it just makes a popup that naggs you to get a licensed copy.

Vod made claims about criminal activity and scamming that are speculative at best, and applied this speculation en-mass upon users doing nothing but attempting to provide customers with a product they clearly want. If he wanted to warn people he could have easily done so with neutral ratings, but then he would have any fun subjugating people that way now would he?

Vod have changed his neutral feedback to a negative one on TECSHARE's trust. I don't get how TECSHARE is untrustworthy as a result of that though.  

Yep. Funny how negatives seem to come out for anyone who is critical of his behavior. Just another demonstration of his disregard for his position on the default trust. Notice there is no reference and he refuses to actually quote any supposed lies he says I made about him. In short the negative rating is for being openly critical of his abusive behavior.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.msg10848601#msg10848601

[SellMaster3000]

The keys that to symantec is selling are not legit. They do come from MSDN. Whether they work to activate a product or not is not really relevant. Even if they do activate the product they do not grant you a licence to use the product. Using the product without a licence means you're liable for software piracy. It also means that the product key can be cancelled at any time.

Vod's feedback seems spot on. Buyer beware. And symantec, don't play dumb. You know you're breaking the rules.

The keys are legitimately obtained. Selling them is not a crime. Selling them is not against forum rules. Downloading software may be criminal, but that is not the responsibility of the seller, the forum, or anyone else but the one downloading the software. Also this is NOT universally illegal in all jurisdictions. Additionally, Windows doesn't just deactivate operating systems linked to invalid registration keys, it just makes a popup that naggs you to get a licensed copy.

Vod made claims about criminal activity and scamming that are speculative at best, and applied this speculation en-mass upon users doing nothing but attempting to provide customers with a product they clearly want. If he wanted to warn people he could have easily done so with neutral ratings, but then he would have any fun subjugating people that way now would he?

Vod have changed his neutral feedback to a negative one on TECSHARE's trust. I don't get how TECSHARE is untrustworthy as a result of that though.  

Yep. Funny how negatives seem to come out for anyone who is critical of his behavior. Just another demonstration of his disregard for his position on the default trust. Notice there is no reference and he refuses to actually quote any supposed lies he says I made about him. In short the negative rating is for being openly critical of his abusive behavior.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.msg10848601#msg10848601

This is perfect proof for Vod abusing his powers. Down with the Villain Vod!

[redsn0w]

I think the negative trusts (that vod left) are to be considered as "working" and the sellers shouldn't stop their activities (if they think that they are "legit"). No one can remove these negative trusts, only Vod and remember the trust system is not moderated

This was my opinion, thanks for the attention.

[innocent93]

Well, maybe Vod is right, the keys are much cheaper than legal ones, How about making a call to Satya Nadella or MircroSoft service and asking whether these keys is legal or not?

[Fiiasco]

Damn, Vod has got all the sellers he could find this time.

All the sellers selling those keys that I see, are all marked red by Vod.

I wonder if vod's only doing this for his "Financial interest in Microsoft" 

[ABitNut]

Vod made claims about criminal activity and scamming that are speculative at best, and applied this speculation en-mass upon users doing nothing but attempting to provide customers with a product they clearly want. If he wanted to warn people he could have easily done so with neutral ratings, but then he would have any fun subjugating people that way now would he?

Ok, let's do some group reading of the feedback Vod left for symantec.

This user is selling Microsoft product keys they get from MSDN subscriptions¹. This is not allowed². Microsoft does not sell product keys without Certificate of Authenticity³.

All it will take is a single person to report his illegal purchase of a Microsoft key (even someone who intentionally buys just to report)⁴, then Microsoft can trace it back to the original MSDN subscription that generated that key.⁵

ALL keys generated from that MSDN account will then become invalidated (i.e. stop working)⁶ and symantec will NOT give you your money back⁷.

This is a scam⁸. Do not purchase keys from this account!⁹

1) True.
2) True.
3) True. _{there are a few exceptions, but not among the products that are sold here.}
4) True. Microsoft may (though unlikely) have a mystery shopper buy a key to identify the source subscription.
5) True.
6) I'm not 100% on this, but seeing how product keys do get blacklisted I am going to say true.
7) The magic eight ball says, "True". (I can't guarantee how symantec will act, but all signs point to symantec *not* reimbursing customers.)
8 ) True.
9) A fair warning.

I don't see any major fault in this feedback. It seems spot on.

Vod have changed his neutral feedback to a negative one on TECSHARE's trust. I don't get how TECSHARE is untrustworthy as a result of that though.  

Yep. Funny how negatives seem to come out for anyone who is critical of his behavior. Just another demonstration of his disregard for his position on the default trust. Notice there is no reference and he refuses to actually quote any supposed lies he says I made about him. In short the negative rating is for being openly critical of his abusive behavior.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.msg10848601#msg10848601

That's how it works though. Vod doesn't trust symantec because symantec is involved in software piracy. Symantec is screwing over their customers by making them believe they get a lifetime, guaranteed licence while all they get is as-is, guaranteed to fail product key unless symantec renews their MSDN subscription, which is highly unlikely.

[TECSHARE]

This user is selling Microsoft product keys they get from MSDN subscriptions¹. This is not allowed². Microsoft does not sell product keys without Certificate of Authenticity³.

All it will take is a single person to report his illegal purchase of a Microsoft key (even someone who intentionally buys just to report)⁴, then Microsoft can trace it back to the original MSDN subscription that generated that key.⁵

ALL keys generated from that MSDN account will then become invalidated (i.e. stop working)⁶ and symantec will NOT give you your money back⁷.

This is a scam⁸. Do not purchase keys from this account!⁹

I don't see any major fault in this feedback. It seems spot on.

You skipped over the parts that were incorrect such as the keys being "illegal" and labeling the retailers scammers. Also, he ASSUMES that Symantec will not issue refunds, he could not possibly know this.

Vod have changed his neutral feedback to a negative one on TECSHARE's trust. I don't get how TECSHARE is untrustworthy as a result of that though.  

Yep. Funny how negatives seem to come out for anyone who is critical of his behavior. Just another demonstration of his disregard for his position on the default trust. Notice there is no reference and he refuses to actually quote any supposed lies he says I made about him. In short the negative rating is for being openly critical of his abusive behavior.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.msg10848601#msg10848601

That's how it works though. Vod doesn't trust symantec because symantec is involved in software piracy. Symantec is screwing over their customers by making them believe they get a lifetime, guaranteed licence while all they get is as-is, guaranteed to fail product key unless symantec renews their MSDN subscription, which is highly unlikely.

You are confused. Please read again. This is a reference to the negative trust rating Vod has now left me for daring to challenge him on this subject in yet another lame attempt to try to silence people who are critical of him by further abusing his position on the default trust.