Vod - You are a dickhead

[Hazir]

I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know. I am just giving an example as to what laws might be broken if one was being broken. The key word in my statements about this is *might* - as in I am not 100% sure.

One reason why it might violate anti-piracy laws is that anyone can download most microsoft products, but cannot actually use them without the product keys. So if you use a stolen product key to unlock the software to use it then this would be the action that would be breaking the law. Now if the keys are really "stolen" or not is probably a different question

There is no maybe, this simply IS NOT A CRIME.
Copying software illegally = a crime
Selling legally obtained registration keys  = a violation of TOS and NOT a crime.

This very clearly does not fit the definition of software piracy because HE IS NOT PROVIDING ANY ACTUAL SOFTWARE! This whole criminal excuse is just some bit to justify VODs excessive, abusive, control freak extortionist behavior after the fact to save face and to attempt to manipulate staff into doing his dirty work for him.

I would be interested to see if Vod can quote what specific law that he is claiming to be broken by these people. A somewhat quick search of google does not find anything that would refute your point.

As I said in one of the other threads (I think it was another one - there are so many), I think Vod does have somewhat of a conflict of interest as he said that he is a Certified Microsoft Engineer

This discussion can go on forever really. And the only two suitable solutions as I see it. First, is give every MSDN reseller red trust and make their activity as illegal/scam. Second, is just let is go as we are letting go all other gray area activity here and no one had a problem with it so far.

[Quickseller]

I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know. I am just giving an example as to what laws might be broken if one was being broken. The key word in my statements about this is *might* - as in I am not 100% sure.

One reason why it might violate anti-piracy laws is that anyone can download most microsoft products, but cannot actually use them without the product keys. So if you use a stolen product key to unlock the software to use it then this would be the action that would be breaking the law. Now if the keys are really "stolen" or not is probably a different question

There is no maybe, this simply IS NOT A CRIME.
Copying software illegally = a crime
Selling legally obtained registration keys  = a violation of TOS and NOT a crime.

This very clearly does not fit the definition of software piracy because HE IS NOT PROVIDING ANY ACTUAL SOFTWARE! This whole criminal excuse is just some bit to justify VODs excessive, abusive, control freak extortionist behavior after the fact to save face and to attempt to manipulate staff into doing his dirty work for him.

I would be interested to see if Vod can quote what specific law that he is claiming to be broken by these people. A somewhat quick search of google does not find anything that would refute your point.

As I said in one of the other threads (I think it was another one - there are so many), I think Vod does have somewhat of a conflict of interest as he said that he is a Certified Microsoft Engineer

This discussion can go on forever really. And the only two suitable solutions as I see it. First, is give every MSDN reseller red trust and make their activity as illegal/scam. Second, is just let is go as we are letting go all other gray area activity here and no one had a problem with it so far.

Like I said, I think we should give Vod the opportunity to respond and cite which law he thinks is being broken. I don't think the situation is so urgent that a conclusion needs to be made this minute

[Vod]

I'll stop selling keys immediately, but everyone should do that

Excellent.  Contact me after one month and I will remove the negative feedback. 

[FuckIdolPlus]

I'll stop selling keys immediately, but everyone should do that

Excellent.  Contact me after one month and I will remove the negative feedback. 

You can read the rest of it right? If not do so. Stop playing games.

[TECSHARE]

Like I said, I think we should give Vod the opportunity to respond and cite which law he thinks is being broken. I don't think the situation is so urgent that a conclusion needs to be made this minute

Seriously? You expect VOD to back up his accusations? When has he ever done this? VOD's authority is granted by being self assured of his superiority. He has no desire to justify his actions which are clearly above the heads of the mere mortals he places his ratings upon. All he has to do is make baseless accusations, leave a few negative ratings, and lemmings such as yourself will concur with his baseless declarations, because, you know, BURN THE WITCH!!1

[Quickseller]

Like I said, I think we should give Vod the opportunity to respond and cite which law he thinks is being broken. I don't think the situation is so urgent that a conclusion needs to be made this minute

Seriously? You expect VOD to back up his accusations? When has he ever done this? VOD's authority is granted by being self assured of his superiority. He has no desire to justify his actions which are clearly above the heads of the mere mortals he places his ratings upon. All he has to do is make baseless accusations, leave a few negative ratings, and lemmings such as yourself will concur with his baseless declarations, because, you know, BURN THE WITCH!!1

Well I think he should be given the opportunity to backup his claims. I don't think it is fair to go around saying that he is abusing his position on default trust until he has at least been given some time to either backup his claims that the law is being broken or correct/adjust the trust that he left.

[TECSHARE]

Well I think he should be given the opportunity to backup his claims. I don't think it is fair to go around saying that he is abusing his position on default trust until he has at least been given some time to either backup his claims that the law is being broken or correct/adjust the trust that he left.

You mean not fair, as in exactly like he does to people he leaves negative ratings for without even bothering to discuss it with them? Funny how VOD some how deserves leniency, yet he affords no such courtesy to others. VOD clearly has a long history of abusing his position on the default trust. This was not the first time he has behaved like this, nor will it be the last.

[Vod]

I'll stop selling keys immediately, but everyone should do that

Excellent.  Contact me after one month and I will remove the negative feedback. 

You can read the rest of it right? If not do so. Stop playing games.

There is no "rest of it" to read.  I'm asking you to stop selling keys that will eventually become invalid (scamming those you sold it to) and you have agreed to do so.

I'm willing to remove the negative trust if you keep your word.  Everyone is entitled to a second chance. 

[Quickseller]

Well I think he should be given the opportunity to backup his claims. I don't think it is fair to go around saying that he is abusing his position on default trust until he has at least been given some time to either backup his claims that the law is being broken or correct/adjust the trust that he left.

You mean not fair, as in exactly like he does to people he leaves negative ratings for without even bothering to discuss it with them? Funny how VOD some how deserves leniency, yet he affords no such courtesy to others. VOD clearly has a long history of abusing his position on the default trust. This was not the first time he has behaved like this, nor will it be the last.

Well sometimes it is appropriate to leave negative feedback ASAP in order to warn others as quickly as possible about a scam. I have left negative trust a number of times for people as a placeholder while I write up a scam accusacation.

I don't see any issue if Vod were to know for sure that something is in fact illegal but needs some time to research the specific statute that is being broken.

[Hazir]

I'll stop selling keys immediately, but everyone should do that

Excellent.  Contact me after one month and I will remove the negative feedback. 

You can read the rest of it right? If not do so. Stop playing games.

There is no "rest of it" to read.  I'm asking you to stop selling keys that will eventually become invalid (scamming those you sold it to) and you have agreed to do so.

I'm willing to remove the negative trust if you keep your word.  Everyone is entitled to a second chance. 

I personally have no problem with it as long as 'rewarding' someone with red trust is justified and morally right, not just because 'I can do it, and I don't like someone - therefore - red trust". In this case I have slight objections because you are just doing this to one person. That bothers me - Vod if you are playing like that and you want to destroy all evil, then please search through forum to find every other MSDN keys&account dealer and other service resellers and give them all red trust once and for all. 

[Vod]

That bothers me - Vod if you are playing like that and you want to destroy all evil, then please search through forum to find every other MSDN keys&account dealer and other service resellers and give them all red trust once and for all. 

If you review my trust, you'll see I've left negative feedback to nine Microsoft key sellers TODAY.    I'm not picking on any one individual scammer. 

[FuckIdolPlus]

That bothers me - Vod if you are playing like that and you want to destroy all evil, then please search through forum to find every other MSDN keys&account dealer and other service resellers and give them all red trust once and for all. 

If you review my trust, you'll see I've left negative feedback to nine Microsoft key sellers TODAY.    I'm not picking on any one individual scammer. 

What about HBO Go and netflix sellers? Starbucks sellers? Why not them. Heck they are the real culprits selling stolen goods. MSDN is not stolen.

[Fiiasco]

That bothers me - Vod if you are playing like that and you want to destroy all evil, then please search through forum to find every other MSDN keys&account dealer and other service resellers and give them all red trust once and for all. 

If you review my trust, you'll see I've left negative feedback to nine Microsoft key sellers TODAY.    I'm not picking on any one individual scammer. 

What about HBO Go and netflix sellers? Starbucks sellers? Why not them. Heck they are the real culprits selling stolen goods. MSDN is not stolen.

Good point. I'll have to say here that most digital goods on this forum don't have a legitimate source. So it's really no use fighting against it anyways.

[TECSHARE]

Like I said, I think we should give Vod the opportunity to respond and cite which law he thinks is being broken. I don't think the situation is so urgent that a conclusion needs to be made this minute

Seriously? You expect VOD to back up his accusations? When has he ever done this? VOD's authority is granted by being self assured of his superiority. He has no desire to justify his actions which are clearly above the heads of the mere mortals he places his ratings upon. All he has to do is make baseless accusations, leave a few negative ratings, and lemmings such as yourself will concur with his baseless declarations, because, you know, BURN THE WITCH!!1

Well I think he should be given the opportunity to backup his claims. I don't think it is fair to go around saying that he is abusing his position on default trust until he has at least been given some time to either backup his claims that the law is being broken or correct/adjust the trust that he left.

Notice how this isn't happening and he just continues to roll on negging every key seller in sight like the question about legality never happened? He simply pretends that things that are counter to his arguments don't exist and continues as self assured as ever. Shocking I know!

[jc01480]

Just ignore this user.  His credibility is waning badly.

[abyrnes81]

It is not illegal to sell "fake" microsoft key that it will turn invalid after a couple of days (or maybe weeks). It is only a scam , but it is not illegal. If the OP think that vod abused the trust system he can open a thread in the Meta : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0

[FuckIdolPlus]

It is not illegal to sell "fake" microsoft key that it will turn invalid after a couple of days (or maybe weeks). It is only a scam , but it is not illegal. If the OP think that vod abused the trust system he can open a thread in the Meta : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0

We are not selling fake keys, VOD thinks that this is spam because they 'might' get banned where as there has never been a single case in all of history.

Here is the meta thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999252.0

[abyrnes81]

It is not illegal to sell "fake" microsoft key that it will turn invalid after a couple of days (or maybe weeks). It is only a scam , but it is not illegal. If the OP think that vod abused the trust system he can open a thread in the Meta : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0

We are not selling fake keys, VOD thinks that this is spam because they 'might' get banned where as there has never been a single case in all of history.

Here is the meta thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999252.0

It will turn in a scam when microsoft will block the MSDN account that has generated those keys, remember the trust system is not moderated but a few times an admin removed one or two users (but this will not be the case of Vod , the scambuster!).

[Fortify]

It will turn in a scam when microsoft will block the MSDN account that has generated those keys, remember the trust system is not moderated but a few times an admin removed one or two users (but this will not be the case of Vod , the scambuster!).

It works both ways. People buying these want a cheaper Microsoft serial code, the only way that can happen is through these MSDN accounts. If whoever owns the MSDN is greedy and sells too many, it will get more attention and likely be shut down. If they are not, you're free to use Windows until your computer claps out. It is not illegal, just against Microsoft T&C - they are not the law.

[tidus1097]

That bothers me - Vod if you are playing like that and you want to destroy all evil, then please search through forum to find every other MSDN keys&account dealer and other service resellers and give them all red trust once and for all. 

If you review my trust, you'll see I've left negative feedback to nine Microsoft key sellers TODAY.    I'm not picking on any one individual scammer. 

What about HBO Go and netflix sellers? Starbucks sellers? Why not them. Heck they are the real culprits selling stolen goods. MSDN is not stolen.

I notice that there's no reply to this as of yet. It does seem that he singled out MSDN for the -trust-a-thon. And I'll say this to the OP as well as I said it in another thread. Basically say in your thread that the key is under warranty for 1 month (example is up 2 u) and if key fails before then a full amount will be returned. If the key is not gone bad, then no refund shall be given. Timeframes are at your discretion and its completely up to you. But when 1 person takes the responsibility of being robocop on MSDN keys all you can do is play by the rules. Now if all the msdn sellers then do this, and I'm sure they won't though, and he leaves negative feedback then, on lets say the 9 he did today, wouldn't that be abuse of the trust system since he singled out just MSDN sellers when the trader and tradee's both know the agreement and consequences?