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Then you can make some USB sticks, and make some return for the near future, I'm interested in the miners, but the questios is the cost of the unit.

i would expect at least 22nm for one of the two, or you think it's still to early for that?

It's actually quite possible the S6 has the same chip as the S5 and comes out in April at .49 watts per GH and powered by a 2,200 watt PSU but running at 1,960 watts at 4,000 GH/s.  This would make it within the wattage available for a 120 volt/20 amp circuit @ 2400 watts.  They may recommend it for a 240 volt circuit and insist the 120 volt circuit have 12 gauge wiring and a 20 amp outlet.  Most outlets wired to a 20 amp circuit in the home are rated at 15 amps (1,800 watts).  One would need to go to the local hardware store to purchase a 20 amp outlet while making sure the wiring for the outlet is in fact 12 AWG and not 14 AWG.

Then we see the new chips in the S7 in July.

I think this will more than likely be the case after further thought.

That would be a big jump if they go from 110 to 220.  I think they would stay with 110 since use it so many models.  But who knows.

Speculation? Well I have some insider information.

https://i.imgur.com/vxJsHbe.png
First of all, s6 will not operate on SHA-256 ASICS.

S6 will operate on 10mm supercomputers made from mutated, hyperintelligent human brain cells. Bitmain estimates that those miners are going to be so efficient and effective that about 1/5 of the world's population will in some way invest in bitcoin. The demand is going to be so high that the bubble that's going to be created will make Bitmain the largest company in terms of revenue and reserves on earth.

Bitmain creates its own state and decentral bank. Shortly after they announce that there's not going to be a s7 miner since s6 turned out to be so efficient that it will remain profitable until the day only transaction fees are mined.

That's when Bitmain decides to invest into spacecrafts. In record time, they successfully launch a manned mission to Europa, the frozen moon. They establish a base there, this way it's easier for them to satisfy demand for miners from outer space. They also cover the planet's surface with self-sufficient S6s and since the planet itself is so cold, they manage to overclock them at a stable +40% hashrate.

https://lightsinthedark.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/europa_tstryk.jpg

Hashnest.com is now the main source of income of every state, human being and company worldwide. The planet is renamed to Bitmain Earth s1.

Any ETA on S6? At least speculative?

I'm still thinking mid to late April.

Well, with the current BTC price, I m really not sure how profitable for them is to develop new miners. The profit margin s really, really low.

I think this is part of why it's taking so long.  These big mining outfits did not get big by being stupid.  If they can run this gen gear a while longer and not rush to a new generation it makes sense to a point.

Also at a point when electricity vs hash is to low then there will be more of a incentive to go develop next gen gear.

Well, with the current BTC price, I m really not sure how profitable for them is to develop new miners. The profit margin s really, really low.

at least those new miner are better than s5

ratio is 2.37 for wattage ( 1400 vs 590) but hash power is 3.46 in ratio ( 4000 vs 1155), they are 1.45 times better if they would have the same wattage

We might see S6 somewhere in the second part of this year. S7, I highly doubt, not with these BTC prices.

I can see your estimate of S6 not coming out till Q3 or Q4 of this year IF NO S7 were to come out.  However, an S7 has to be on the way for THIS year.  Why?  Because the competition will have a 3rd generation rig out by Q3 or Q4 of THIS year.  Do you honestly think Spondooliestech would go an entire year without new equipment on the market and that new equipment being a 3rd generation rig?

Bitmain, would come out with an S7 THIS year as well to compete.  IF my speculation holds out for an S7 in Q3 or Q4, it only makes sense for an S6 to come out this year and soon.  Why soon?  Look at how short lived the S4 was...  Because the S5 came out shortly afterwards.  To make the S6 less short lived like the S4, it would behove Bitmain to come out with it sooner [say... April or May].  Then they would come out with an S7 (3rd Gen.) in Q4 of this year more than likely.

It actually makes more sense for a 3rd generation S7 rig to come out with low prices of BTC.  It would actually get more sells to offset the low price of BTC by paying for less power.

huge risk to build the s-7 with a tape out of 22 16 or 14 sized chips as a full sized  tape out of 1000's of chips = $$

The s-6 would be the same chips.  I see the s-6 sooner then June 1 .

 I see the s-7 in Sept or Oct

All of the above is based on coins running 200 to 300 usd each.

I don't think the price matters.  Competition will put out new rigs regardless.  I would think so anyway...  That's what has me believing the S7 will come out in Q3 or Q4 regardless.  It's a sure money maker if the S7 is more power efficient to offset the lower price of BTC [IF the price of BTC is lower at that time].

I honestly believe the S7 would be the same form factor as an S3 and S5 [Requiring a PSU].  This would reduce costs of the rig.  I think Bitmain knows they can still charge the same costs per GH as what they are now if the price of BTC remains the same or is lower.  It will be interesting to see what the difficulty does in the next 6 months if the price of BTC remains the same.

I think price is a huge factor.  If it was 1k per BTC again they would throw a ton of cash quickly to get a new generation.   

But with price so low it does not make a company want to throw away money.  It means tighter margins, and being better with their cash.    I don't think we will get the 6 months but I also don't think we will have a quick arms race to next nm chips super quick.

I buy into the maxim:

Mining follows price. It's a slow response, but when price goes up, mining WILL follow eventually, and vice-versa.

I am 99% sure that Price does NOT follow mining. If it was I'd be way better off than when I started in July of 2013. As I recall BTC was about $100, and difficulty was about 26 million. I paid way too much for my 333Mhz Block Erupter stick miner.

I buy into the maxim:

Mining follows price. It's a slow response, but when price goes up, mining WILL follow eventually, and vice-versa.

I am 99% sure that Price does NOT follow mining. If it was I'd be way better off than when I started in July of 2013. As I recall BTC was about $100, and difficulty was about 26 million. I paid way too much for my 333Mhz Block Erupter stick miner.

I thought miners would like to see the following good news developing every difficulty change:


Bitcoin difficulty on Mar 24 2014 was 5,006,860,589 [BTC-e $588.71].  On Mar 22 2015 it was 46,717,549,645 [BTC-e $266.36].  That means the difficulty rose 9.3 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Feb 17 2014 was 3,129,573,175 [BTC-e $612.00].  On Feb 22 2015 it was 46,684,376,317 [BTC-e $230.23].  That means the difficulty rose 14.9 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Jan 24 2014 was 2,193,847,870 [BTC-e $774.98].  On Jan 27 2015 it was 41,272,873,895 [BTC-e $252.58].  That means the difficulty rose 18 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Jan 02 2014 was 1,418,481,395 [BTC-e $782.00].  On Dec 30 2014 it was 40,640,955,017 [BTC-e $308.86].  That means the difficulty rose 29 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Nov 29 2013   was 707,408,283 [BTC-e $1,019.60].  On Dec 02 2014 it was 40,007,470,271 [BTC-e $377.50].  That means the difficulty rose 56.5 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Oct 26 2013 was 390,928,788 [BTC-e $171.37].  On Oct 23 2014 it was 35,985,640,265 [BTC-e $354.17].  That means the difficulty rose 92 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Sep 25 2013 was 148,819,200 [BTC-e $122.55].  On Sep 25 2014 it was 34,661,425,924 [BTC-e $401.91].  That means the difficulty rose 232.9 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Aug 24 2013 was 65,750,060 [BTC-e $106.34].  On Aug 31 2014 it was 27,428,630,902 [BTC-e $475.90].  That means the difficulty rose 417.1 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Jul 22 2013 was 31,256,961 [BTC-e $84.50].  On Jul 25 2014 it was 18,736,441,558 [BTC-e $594.47].  That means the difficulty rose 599.4 times more than what it was a year prior.

Bitcoin difficulty on Jun 29 2013 was 21,335,329 [BitStamp $88.83].  On Jun 29 2014 it was 16,818,461,371 [BitStamp $599.86].  That means the difficulty rose 788.3 times more than what it was a year prior.

The numbers above reveal at one time we had as much as a 788.3 times increase in difficulty over a year's time.  That number has reduced to 9.3 times more than what we had the year prior.

If you look at the numbers below [curtesy of https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty (https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty)] you can see what I see.  For example:  On Apr 29, 2014 the difficulty was 8,000,872,136.  Do you honestly think it will be close to 10 times that at 80 Billion a month from now on April 29, 2015?  
On May 24, 2014 the difficulty was 10,455,720,138.  Do you honestly think it will be close to 10 times that at 100.4 Billion this coming May 24th of 2015?
On Jun 29, 2014 the difficulty was 16,818,461,371.  Do you honestly think it will be close to 10 times that at 160.8 Billion on June 29, 2015?
On Aug 31, 2014 the difficulty was 27,428,630,902.  Does one really believe it will be close to 10 times this at 270.4 Billion on August 31, 2015?

The difficulty is 46.7 Billion at present.  I expect a network difficulty no higher than 55 Billion by May 24th of 2015  May 24, 2014 the difficulty was 10,455,720,138.  That would be an increase of 4.45 times what we had a year prior.  I can see only a 1.5 times more than what we had a year prior by November of 2015 IF the price of bitcoin continues at price levels between $235.00 and $335.00.

Mar 22 2015   46,717,549,645   -1.50%   334,417,246 GH/s
Mar 08 2015   47,427,554,951   1.59%   339,499,662 GH/s
Feb 22 2015   46,684,376,317   5.01%   334,179,783 GH/s
Feb 09 2015   44,455,415,962   7.71%   318,224,263 GH/s
Jan 27 2015   41,272,873,895   -6.14%   295,442,739 GH/s
Jan 12 2015   43,971,662,056   8.20%   314,761,417 GH/s
Dec 30 2014   40,640,955,017   3.00%   290,919,288 GH/s
Dec 17 2014   39,457,671,307   -1.37%   282,449,013 GH/s
Dec 02 2014   40,007,470,271   -0.73%   286,384,627 GH/s
Nov 18 2014   40,300,030,328   1.76%   288,478,854 GH/s
Nov 05 2014   39,603,666,252   10.05%   283,494,086 GH/s
Oct 23 2014   35,985,640,265   2.81%   257,595,247 GH/s
Oct 09 2014   35,002,482,026   0.98%   250,557,526 GH/s
Sep 25 2014   34,661,425,924   16.20%   248,116,151 GH/s
Sep 13 2014   29,829,733,124   8.75%   213,529,547 GH/s
Aug 31 2014   27,428,630,902   15.03%   196,341,788 GH/s
Aug 19 2014   23,844,670,039   20.86%   170,686,797 GH/s
Aug 08 2014   19,729,645,941   5.30%   141,230,307 GH/s
Jul 25 2014   18,736,441,558   8.08%   134,120,673 GH/s
Jul 12 2014   17,336,316,979   3.08%   124,098,191 GH/s
Jun 29 2014   16,818,461,371   24.93%   120,391,236 GH/s
Jun 18 2014   13,462,580,115   14.51%   96,368,902 GH/s
Jun 05 2014   11,756,551,917   12.44%   84,156,677 GH/s
May 24 2014   10,455,720,138   18.10%   74,844,960 GH/s
May 12 2014   8,853,416,309   10.66%   63,375,223 GH/s
Apr 29 2014   8,000,872,136   14.64%   57,272,474 GH/s
Apr 17 2014   6,978,842,650   14.04%   49,956,502 GH/s
Apr 05 2014   6,119,726,089   22.23%   43,806,706 GH/s

Yes, there is plenty of talk of the 3rd generation chips (rigs) coming out by the Summer of this year (2015).  The power efficiency and hash rate of these 3rd generation rigs remains to be seen.  Will 3rd generation rigs encourage miners who stopped mining to start back up again because of their power costs being above 15 cents per kWH?  I would say it's quite possible.  Especially, if the price of bitcoin remains at the $235.00 to $335.00 level.  

If bitcoin price is higher than $335.00 by the end of November, 2015, we could definitely see more miners wanting to come back into the fray.  The only issue is will they be able to buy these 3rd generation rigs from those who will manufacture them?  The demand for power efficient 3rd generation rigs could be quite high.  The 3rd and 4th quarter of 2015 will be a very interesting year indeed for the miners.

Cheers miners!

Price is not jumping to much it's been pretty steady at a low price.   That is part of why I don't see this being a fast race.

Also we all overpaid on the block erupter if I remember right there was a deal to get so many cheaper depending on how many you bought.

Was hopping S6 to be really compact and have really high hash like 10Gh/s for each. Compact is awesome!!

The more I think about it.  Now is a better time to get into bitcoin mining than it was a year ago.  One does not have to be concerned with as large of an increase in difficulty now as they did a year ago.  I can't imagine having to increase my hash rate more than 700 times what it was a year prior to mine the same amount of bitcoin that I mined a year prior.  The main thing holding most back at the moment is the price of bitcoin in relation to their power costs.  Those who move to an area with extremely low power costs stand a better chance of surviving.  Especially, when the blocks halve.

Was hopping S6 to be really compact and have really high hash like 10Gh/s for each. Compact is awesome!!

If Bitmain comes out with another compact unit, it would more than likely begin with the letter "U" like the U3 is presently.  The U3 is at 63 GH/s.  I could see a U4 at 100 GH/s with approximately 1/2 the power of the U3.

Was hopping S6 to be really compact and have really high hash like 10Gh/s for each. Compact is awesome!!

I actually have a typo in my previous post as I actually wanted to say 10 Th/s. U3 is good but only if it can deliver higher hash so the total hash per space is small.

This may and may not be true. Yes, it s correct, we do not see those 40% monthly diff jumps anymore and I hope we ll not see this with current available hardware. However, I m sure companies are working on next gen and next next gen which might increase their efficiency big time. Probably the only limiting factor is this limping BTC price. If it starts picking up, more money will be available for development as well.

they should instead try to use better fan to reduce the noise, it should be about time already, or at least make it regulable with 4 pin on the circuit board

This may and may not be true. Yes, it s correct, we do not see those 40% monthly diff jumps anymore and I hope we ll not see this with current available hardware. However, I m sure companies are working on next gen and next next gen which might increase their efficiency big time. Probably the only limiting factor is this limping BTC price. If it starts picking up, more money will be available for development as well.

What do you guys think about this my post in the similar speculation thread?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920048.msg10985965#msg10985965 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920048.msg10985965#msg10985965)

There are two possible scenarios here.

1) Bitmain sells out used S5s from their own farm and makes an upgrade with some devices based on some next chip (as I mentioned before somewhere in this forum, many of Russian bitcoiners receive used S5s) and after their upgrade we will probably see S6, S7 or whatever.

2) Bitmain decided to go out of business and sells out their facilities (all that used S5 buyers receive) and we will not see any new hardware from them. They stopped even to promise that "upgrade for S2 will be available soon". They keep silence about S6 also.

Any comments?..

You know the BM1384 can do under 0.35W/GH, right? I worked over some numbers a month ago speculating S2 upgrade kits, with suitable chip density they could make a 3.6TH miner off a 1KW PSU with the same power density (and therefore same fan volume) as the S2 if they really felt like it. It's possible to get 0.21W/GH from 28nm if done right, and pretty easy to do with 22nm.

I have not seen nor heard of these rumors you speak of.  How do you know the rigs received in Russia were used rigs?

First, inside many of S5 there was a lot of dust.

Second, if there were more or less large batches of S5s we should get the same versions of boards at the same time. Guys from bits.media told about v1.5, v1.7, v1.9 they received several days ago. IMHO hardware revisions should be sold according to the rule "first revision produced - first sold". So since all HW versions of hashing blades being sold these days, we can conclude that they all together were laying somewhere in Bitmain's data center and hashing (collecting the dust...), and now they sell it out by a "first HW version that came to hand" scheme.

I can see what you mean there.  Either they were hashing or they could be "refurbished."  Either case is not good.  If one pays for a "new" unit, they want a "new" unit!!!  A used or refurbished unit should be at a used or refurbished price.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm sure there are others on bitcointalk.org who understand engineering and design about hardware and chips more so than myself.  I was not quite sure what the BM1384 could do.  I have not taken the time to research it very well.  0.21 watts a GH would be great.  If this is the case, we might see Farm Wars back in business again and difficulty climbing again.

With hardware companies doing producing in batches.  What choice do they have it does not sell out?   

In a perfect world they would leave it new in box after a small test.  But with not selling them all I think it's understandable they run them.  That way if they don't see them and have to put it in a cheaper batch they don't lose money.

I don't think there is a company that can take the hit on just storing boxes and boxes of miners after paying for them to be made. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.0

There is an efficiency chart in the first post of the thread about miners with that chip, which has been on the front page of the hardware forum for four months. That's what I calculate off of.

AMHash, or ASICMiner? Far as I know they're two different enterprises, if not exactly two different companies.

So are you suspecting that Bitmain's next gen chip is actually a repackaged BE300? Or that the BM1384 ripped it off? The BE300 was in engineering samples when the BM1384 was already being installed on miners, and also had more performance and a substantially different protocol. I guess it's possible that Bitmain might have taken hash core design from BE300 data and added on their own interface logic for data and comms, but I doubt that went into the BM1384 given the timing. The next chip, maybe, but then why would it take them eight months to pull it off?

Would be interesting to know for sure, but I would be surprised to find Bitmain swiped BE300 IP.

I think Bitmain is just holding their tech, no reason to sell the new product and raise difficulty when they can mine on it themselves and wait for competition to sell theirs first. Once a competitor puts out a new better than S5 miner than we will see the release of the new Bitmain products.

There will be no S6 or S7.  Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

Yeah I am not sure what BK is but I don't see how it could be Bankruptcy weren't they making bank? Like Hashnest is tons of profit and they hash at least like 25% of the network.

Yeah I am not sure what BK is but I don't see how it could be Bankruptcy weren't they making bank? Like Hashnest is tons of profit and they hash at least like 25% of the network.

I have a real love/hate feeling about Bitmain's keep quiet till it's ready to ship way of doing things.  I have to respect the fact that they don't do pre orders, at least no ones that are more then a couple weeks from shipping and they are always at least very close to shipping on time. 

On the other hand I want to know what those guys are up to... ???  The suspense is killer

it would be interesting if miners producers have/will have a deal to sell at higher price, not like spondoolies vs bitmain, sp20 vs s5
they will upgrade, we will upgrade slower...
diff will go up slowly and they will have higher % of the network, and ~ constant % between themselves....

Well, with the current BTC price, I m really not sure how profitable for them is to develop new miners. The profit margin s really, really low.

Not really. In fact when the S5 was first released it was sold for about $300 USD, but shortly after Bitmain got news that spoondolies was out of the hardware bussiness they jacked up the price to $340, well as of now the S5 costs $360, growing difficultly and a growin price.

I am sure at $300 they were making a  profit, so to say the profit magin is really low it is not accurate, doing basic math you can easily conclude that the profit margin is over 20%.

profit margin is really really low for indepent miners, not for the hardware vendors.

.

Is there actually any competitive threat to them at this time?

While it would be nice to actually hear something concrete on the S7 from Bitmain, I wonder what will actually motivate them to start selling it to the public? Do they need the cash?  Could they do just as well by replacing some set of their in-house S5 gear and continue to sell S5's? I think every one has accepted "new" means it has a warranty, not that it actually means "unused".

Is there actually any competitive threat to them at this time?

selling the s-7 rather then mining with it is not really a good idea.

the new pattern for asic builders is replace your older gear slowly with the newer gear.  all the while slowly selling the older gear at the highest price the market will allow.

Both avalon and bitmaintech slowly sell the avalon 4.1 at high price and the s-5 at high price while mining it,

they then replace the 4.1 or the s-5 with more efficient gear.  they have no need to rush.

the new avalon mini does .4 watts vs .53 watts.  the new s-7 does > watts vs .52 watts.


the trick is to allow over-clocked gear die in the field   see my sp20 stat thread.

what does all of this do.  it lowers the builders risk it ends the gear-up wars  and allows for safer profit for the building-self mining company.

SO when the s-7 comes out look for a .35 to .4 watt item priced to break even in about 180-210 days if your power cost is 8 cents.

You and I are on pretty much exactly the same page regarding the S7's performance, Phil.  Earlier in the thread I stated that the S7 should likely get around 1.5TH/s for the same 590W the S5 demands.  Your numbers put the range between 1.475TH/s and 1.685TH/s.  Hopefully they will make the thing a bit quieter.  My S3s are virtually silent compared to the noise the SP20 and S5 make.

Great points sidehack.  The BE300 did indeed beat the BM1384 and show that there's still plenty of wiggle room with the 28nm tech to get some nice efficiency gains.  Do I think Bitmain's going to throw all of their cards on the table with this next S6/S7 generation and offer up the best they can get from their chips?  Honestly, no.  Even though they could very easily put out an S7 running 1.8TH/s at under 600W, I just don't see the incentive for them to do so.  This will likely be a "hey it's good enough" generation while they transition to a smaller process node to compete with KnC's 16nm tech (which promises some absurdly low power draw).

When does KnC plan to introduce this 16nm chip?

So far I have not seen clear evidence of a .1 watt mining machine mining as of today.

My KNC confusion is pretty simple if they built this chip  and it 2 or 3x better then any chip ever built  why don't they really show proof of it. 

They could get a shit ton of investment money and then rob them too.

So far I have not seen clear evidence of a .1 watt mining machine mining as of today.

If they had the chip, they wouldn't be losing market share of the network hashrate distribution. KNC is in a lot of trouble. Those leaked financials from December 2014, at a higher BTC price, showed them bleeding value at a rate of 5% of their total book value ($4.6 million) every 6 weeks. That's an "bankruptcy on the horizon" rate. Hence why they needed $15 million of equity in January, but have nothing to show for it. They'll have to raise more cash again soon, even with a new chip. Production will cost tens of millions, and the factories in China will require at least partial payment up front.

While mining in Sweden sounded smart in 2013, the electricity rate is higher there than Iceland, Georgia, and the better rates of North America and China. Plus, their farm supposedly cost $20+ million to house less than 10 MW. I bet the Chinese spend far less than that to house 10MW. Throw in the cost of low pay scale employees, which in Sweden is $80K+ USD, 12 weeks vacation and benefits, the high tax rate in Sweden (25% VAT plus high income rates) and I would bet they're going to have to shutter that operation before the end of 2015. Throw in millions of liability in law suits. KNC may produce a chip, but the company is either going to have to sell it for nothing to a creditor/investor or sell the whole company. They simply do not have the funds on hand to manufacture a final product.

Kinda like when BitFury talked big game about their 0.19W/GH chip in exactly one press release and never talked about it again?

any news from Bitmain/Hashnest?

they put 2000 "New" S5 for 420 US dollar to sell at the shop.

Yeah, there is still quite a bit of July left. Bitmain likes to announce a couple weeks before they actually start shipping, but a July announcement for an early August miner would still be okay.

A 2x16 string on the S5 instead of a 2x15 would have made it a 1TH miner at 0.43W/GH wall. I'm assuming they'll have a new chip that does better than that. I'm rooting for board-level top clock at or below 0.32W/GH, but that's not based on anything just what I'd like to see.

Bitmain's site is now claiming to be out of Batch 5 on the S5. I suspect they now have incentive to get around to releasing whatever is next, since they appear to have managed to clean out their old stuff despite their price gouging price raises this month.

Asic sellers piss me off this is why I keep building GPU rigs and just selling the alt coins for bitcoin. I don't have to deal with shady company practices constantly. I really want a modular asic machine soon.

Wasn't the design of the S2 supposed to be that modular machine?  A bunch of boards on a backplane that could easily be swapped out.  Unfortunately, they (Bitmain) never followed through with any upgrade kits.  That kind of setup would be great for the datacenter guys.  Keep the chassis and just upgrade the boards.

Bitmain's site is now claiming to be out of Batch 5 on the S5. I suspect they now have incentive to get around to releasing whatever is next, since they appear to have managed to clean out their old stuff despite their price gouging price raises this month.

Perhaps they're building "next gen" machines and using them to replace S5s in their cloud operations, then turning around and selling the used S5s as "new"?

 Hmmmmm - where have we heard THAT sort of thing *cough KNC cough* before?

They never claimed the hashnest S5's are new, so that can very well be the case. They have probably been selling used units in hashnest for a while, but as long as there are no issues of them breaking, etc.. I guess it doesn't really hurt anyone.

There wont be an S6. They jump to the S7and we are around 2 month before launch.
Thats what they told me.

This correlates with what doggie said that the S4+ was the S6 and we aren't going to see one, but I the 2 month before launch is new information. Did they say if it was a new chip by any chance?

There wont be an S6. They jump to the S7and we are around 2 month before launch.
Thats what they told me.

They are selling used S5 miners right now (I assume from their own mines). Naturally, they are probably replacing those miners with new (S7), otherwise why bother.
In two months they might start sales, but I have no doubt that during these two months they will be delivering from factory to themselves and mining with unannounced New miners-that 80PH jump in hashing speed very nicely coincided with used S5 sales announcement-don't you think?.
After 1-2 mo, they will sell to us, probably a mixture of brand new and from their mine.

They are selling used S5 miners right now (I assume from their own mines). Naturally, they are probably replacing those miners with new (S7), otherwise why bother.
In two months they might start sales, but I have no doubt that during these two months they will be delivering from factory to themselves and mining with unannounced New miners-that 80PH jump in hashing speed very nicely coincided with used S5 sales announcement-don't you think?.
After 1-2 mo, they will sell to us, probably a mixture of brand new and from their mine.

I would like to see an S5e with the design geared towards very best J/GH at a sensible price. So still based on the existing 1384, chip rather than a more expensive 1386 chip. Chain mode but able to run at 12V, so 20 chips / chain, (0.6V) or more if that improved the J/GH? Needs them to sort whatever is preventing the S5 running at 0.6V?

If it could get close to the chip spec of 0.249J/GH  @ 0.6V this would give a best in class efficiency Miner which I think for the Home User is what we need.

So with 2 boards this would give only 330GH, with very low consumption to see us through a few difficulty increases. Then also a S5e+ version with 4 boards and 660GH?

People could still choose to return it to higher hash rates by increasing the voltage.  :)


Rich

what if s7 will come out ~December! :o :o :o

what if s7 will come out ~December! :o :o :o

they should arrive nov 1. You read it here first

A guess or insider knowledge? Nov 1st isn't bad and would be nice but if the price is too high it could cut into some extra christmas money and I can't have that lol.

As long as its a discounted price and not marketed as new I have to agree.

No doubt the chips lifespan will be reduced having been run professionally 24/7 so I would hope very discounted prices.

There have been comments (by Dogie I think, or someone from Bitmain itself) that they are going to skip the S6 and go straight to an S7. In any case, if they came out with another water-cooled rig it would be probably be called the "C3" in keeping with their current naming progression.


 Buying an S5 and needed power supply right now is VERY VERY IIFY on ROI unless you have 5 cent/KWH or cheaper power. The size of difficulty increase is going up since all of the "next gen" announcements to date, and looks likely to go up faster for a few months or a bit longer than it did the first half of this year, with the widespread adoption of "next gen" mining gear in the big mining farms as the gear becomes available.


 I'm hoping for an S7 that does over 2TH for under 600 watts and $600 or less, otherwise ROI is going to be very iffy even WITH cheap electric due to the bitcoin halfing next summer (unless bitcoin climbs a LOT somewhere between now and then, or the current rate of difficulty increase drops by at least half of the last couple of incriments for the next year). I'm also hoping that Bitmain goes back to making the voltage adjustable, rather than the S5's "chained power" setup - that would be worth an extra $100 easy, as you could undervolt later on and keep the mining profitable for a lot longer or at higher power costs (an SP20E can be profitable at 18 cents/kwh if you undervolt it enough, an S5 right now loses money at that power cost with current difficulty and bitcoin pricing).

 2TH at 400 watts or 3Th at 600, might be able to sell as high as $800 and still manage to ROI at some point, but I suspect Bitmain is going to release the S7 with a chained-power design at or very close to the highest rated voltage the chip can handle (just like the S5) at the cost of efficiency and somewhat of a loss of long-term ROI ability.

 What I'd LIKE to see is an "S5 Lite" model, still using the BM1384 but chaining 18 chips - should run about 800Mh/s at less than 350 watts - in the $400 range. THAT would ROI no problem, and still be profitable after the halving for quite a while even if Bitcoin price stays flat and difficulty increases stay in the RECENT 2-3% on average range.

S6 is water cooled 4.4 TH machine with 2200 Watt PSU.They will release it as soon as they melt down their S5 stocks.

And yes, S5 will do good profit from now on to the release.

S6 is water cooled 4.4 TH machine with 2200 Watt PSU.They will release it as soon as they melt down their S5 stocks.

And yes, S5 will do good profit from now on to the release.

where did you get that information? link?

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

any confirmation on this?

thx!

I am pretty sure he is just jesting. The water cool serie is C, not S in the first place. There's also rumors(not sure if the confirmation is true) of the S6 being skipped altogether. Seem logical with the recent S4+, anyways.
This is a speculation thread, he was probably just voicing his Christmas wishes.

Bitmaintech has mentioned to several people (including myself) that the next unit coming is the S7. There can certainly be an S6 down the road, but I'd imagine the next one out will be the S7 as they keep saying. Their original ETA was to make the announcement in July, but last I spoke to them (2 weeks ago) they said to wait another month (or maybe even 2).

It is good to have additional input. However i'd kind of like to read it from Bitmain. It's just hard to warrant putting money on that probable fact since in the end, there's no guarantee that they will be announcing a new unit that will be ready to ship in the immediate or near future.
There's no guarantee it will be indeed in another 2-6 weeks that Bitmain will give us an announcement in the first place... or that it will lead to a shift in ASIC value.

From: Bitmain Technologies Limited <info@bitmaintech.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: BITMAIN AntMiner S5

Hi,
No details yet, new product may be released in one or two months later, we don't have the exact info yet.
Please pay attention to our official announcement or update in website.
Thanks.



From: Bitmain Tech <info@bitmaintech.com>
Date: 05/27/2015 10:38 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: BITMAIN AntMiner S5
Hi,
S7 will be released in July, but we don't have the detailed info yet.
Please wait for our official announcement later.

That's good, there's no point in debating the legitimacy of this. It did get reported several time already by trusted member.

Now if only "May(be) in 1 or 2 months we might be releasing S7" was just a little bit less vague and included some technical specs we could start extrapolating values. xD

Agreed. I'll ping them again in a few weeks. Hashnest is down to 210 S5's.. maybe they'll announce something when it's down to 0. Or I guess they can just replenish it with more used inventory.

Noon yesterday net hashrate was 413 and today it's 296.  Is the big swing from Bitmain, KnC or the hot weather?

Price: 440.0 USD(1.55783314฿)  Stock: 177

Slowly getting to 0.

Well the idea is they can't as they have switched over fabrication to the new units and are not making any of the old S5 now, so the idea is when they are out of S5 they won't have a hold and wait on selling units but bring out their new units.

Noon yesterday net hashrate was 413 and today it's 296.  Is the big swing from Bitmain, KnC or the hot weather?

Hmm luck affect the guessed network hashrate too, i wouldn't go saying Bitmain went and offlined 100PH in a shot. It's not 296 today either, look more like 360. But its possible they onlined a bunch of hardware yesterday and offlined a batch of S5 today to be ready to ship for the 14th+ august date.

I find the up spike and then down spike exactly syncing with bitmain's S5 event days pretty funny. And maybe suggest that Bitmain is truly doing what everything think they are doing...


They can replenish the stock at anytime, too.

Read your post, went back and looked at the graph (https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=30days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=) and see I was wrong.  Looked at my daily notes and see I must have misread the chart, having the wrong info recorded.  The chart indicates it dropped to 327.

I'd tend to agree that the noticeable drop was probably related to Bitmain - but I'd guess it was "pulled the August 5 batch to ship it" machines, not pull machines that aren't due to ship for almost a week, given the actual timing and the timing on WHEN they shipped that "August 5" batch.

I hope that is a personal mod and not a real thing coming from bitmain as it would be quite the disappointment instead of a sleek S7, I am done with the +'s.

Hopefully this is just one of the few experiments that Bitmain has done and will decide to not release (just like they did with the S2 upgrade kits) The people want a new miner and a new chip!

Officially on the US site now:

https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B

This ain't the S6 or S7, however.

We're still waiting for the news from Bitmain that was supposed to be here last month.

They are selling S5+ now, that means we won't see S7's in a short time. Maybe after Christmas?

Based on Bitmain's past record of reusing design work, I'd bet the S7 will be same form factor and same front/back plates as the S3/S5.
I'd go 80/20 on 2 hash boards vs. 3 like the "S5+".
I'd bet on it being 1KW power consumption or less, but not on HOW much less.
Definitely new chip with better specs - but how much better is a good question, and a high probability they'll run the chip at or very close to it's LEAST efficient point to maximize hash rate NOT efficiency.

 Price, actual hash rate, power consumption, and date of first shipment are the big questions right now.
 Chip technology doesn't really matter except indirectly in how it affects the hash rate and power consumption.



 The S5+ is perfectly practical with 110V - I have no clue why people keep saying it needs 220. You DON'T have to run it from a single power supply after all.
 I do still think the S5+ should have been called the S6 though, even if it's not really rack-mount form factor it's CLOSE.

 I don't think the S5+ has a direct effect on when the S7 will go on sale - I think the only real holdup on the S7 right now is Bitmain clearing out all of their "used farm/Hashnest" S5 units as they get them replaced by S7 (or perhaps S8 or "S7+) units.

The people complain because it needs 2x 220-240v for optimal efficiency and also because 220v is more efficient, about 2% less waste, which at 90% is a 20% reduction in waste, up to 40%. Etc.

We could see a s7 be at around 0.8kWh for like 2.5TH. We'll see.

the s7 won't come out for months. 

 There is a good chance s-5++  can be made to run downclocked to 4.75th and use 1800 watts  that translates to .375 watts a gh.

I will be ordering an s-5+ this weekend and try to test the findings out from this thread.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151460.0


if it tests as expected the s-5 generation has a lot of life left to it.

No need for bitmaintech to sell s-7's

They will off load all s-5's and s-5+'s for months to come.  and if the mods allowing for lower power use pan out  we will not see a s-7 until Jan or feb.

But i find that irritating, the s5+ is a very big chunk. A single unit form S5+ would be nice and affordable by piece. The S5+ right now is big and noisy, a lot of heat. I don't know what kind of noise you could get to with high quality performance low noise fans but that one unit is like my whole farm. =/

Ah. Thanks philipma1957 i noticed the 2 unused connector and was wondering if the controller was able to run loaded 4 blades. This is pretty nice, it could be nice to pickup a S5 with defective controller board and double up effectively getting a second S5 for real cheap. :)

I hope they keep the same heatsink size. It's a fairly practical power density and I would not be opposed to seeing the S1 formfactor become somewhat of a standard for small miners. S5+ is a disaster.

Good that I know so what? All of that was hopes and opinions.

S1 upgrades?  Who still has those ancient things? :P

S5, or S5+? The S5+, like the S4+, I have a hard time understanding. Now if instead of designing an S5+ with 7.7TH in a terribly hideous and cumbersome form-factor and very little improvement on technology already eight months old, or an S4+ using more-than-year-old chips in a mediocre and highly-overpriced offering worse than any miner sold this calendar year, they had retooled the S4 build around the BM1384, it might have been something. A 5x17 string instead of 3x17 of BM1382 would have built a 4.2TH miner in the same case, same heatsinks, same PSU. That would have been worth buying. A clumsy behemoth trying to extract 1KW from a box the size of an S1 and with about a 10% power savings over the stuff they were shipping last Christmas, with no good way to power it and no good way to even shelve the thing safely? Yeah, definitely a mess.

I got about a dozen S1 sitting on the shelf waiting, and several stripped-down dead S5 chassis as well.

Well... the BM1385 certainly beat our predictions in this thread... it's slated to be 0.23W per GH (or 230W per TH).  Now we just have to wait and see what the actual units will look like.  If they're still drawing the same 590W like the S5, that's about 2.5TH/s.

 18 chips per string, that's a given from the BM1385 published specs and Bitmain's long-standing tendancy to run their new designs at "max hash/max volts".

 That works out to 2.34 TH at about 540 watts "at the wall", on a 2 board 2 string per board "same as S5/S3/S1" form factor unit.
 I suspect the actual final announced specs will be a HAIR off from that estimate, more on the power side than the TH side.

 I would guess the unit will initially be priced at 3.5-4 BTC, but that's a LOT more speculative and I wouldn't be shocked at anything up to 5.


 Release date? Whenever Bitmain finishes replacing their "farm" S5s, or when a competator shows up with working hardware or at least announces working production of chips (other than SFards, whish is starting to make me think "Sfarts" of late) of those competators that sell to the public.

Don't forget the controller and fan power, which could easily be another 25W (becoming 28 more at the wall).

The S5 is inefficient for the chip, because it's running at the top of what's possible for it. The S[odd] miners always did that, and the S[even] miners came later with higher chip density and lower per-unit power. Inefficient or not, the S5 was the most efficient machine available at the time, and nobody's really beaten it in a cost-effective way in the last 8 months. Sucks to say, but that was a pretty optimal design when you consider $/GH and that efficiency was already "good enough".

I'm betting they announced the chip as a preemptive strike on Spondoolies or LK Group announcing new gear (speculative, of course). Quite possibly they're only toying with factory samples now, which is why they aren't announcing an S7 design or any performance curves beyond the one data point. Or they're only letting slip a little bit of info and they've actually had them for months and just aren't telling everyone about their already-deployed S7 stacks because they don't want to yet.

Don't forget the controller and fan power, which could easily be another 25W (becoming 28 more at the wall).

 Note that the specs they published on the BM1385 were the "at the wall" spec numbers, NOT the chip numbers, for power.

 I'm STILL saying they already have S7's built and hashing away in their farm/Hashnest.

 I suspect the CHIP can go down to more like .12 at "optimal efficiency" undervolt.


 The only "waste" to them on actually putting the S7 up for sale right now would be if they still have any of those S5+ things or any S5's left in their hands unsold. I'm CERTAIN that's the only thing they are waiting on, though if someone else releases a miner that might preempt them.

 Note that the specs they published on the BM1385 were the "at the wall" spec numbers, NOT the chip numbers, for power.

I'm fairly certain that's false. The chip spec they posted was 0.216W/GH which translates to 216W/TH and the machine-level number they gave was 230W/TH assuming a 93% PSU; 216/0.93=232 which backs up that assertion.

My bet is 2x18 string, 32.5GH per chip makes 1.17TH per board at 253W per board so about 505W for the pair at 2.34TH. Add 25W for controller and really loud fan makes 530W. A typical 90% PSU takes that up to 589W at the wall, or a 93% gives you 570W wall. I certainly wouldn't complain if it came in under that. I also certainly wouldn't complain to see a chip-level performance curve chart like they posted for the BM1384.

I'm fairly certain that's false. The chip spec they posted was 0.216W/GH which translates to 216W/TH and the machine-level number they gave was 230W/TH assuming a 93% PSU; 216/0.93=232 which backs up that assertion.

It is very unlikely they have S7's already at data centers.  Don't really see a huge jump.  Unless they put in S5 slots and did not do a big batch.

Unless they continue that monster trend of 3x units.

15 or 16th monster..... muahahahhahah
i'd buy!

If they sell an 11th to 15th beast I will buy it.

If they go big

I rather they sell something that maxes at 2700 watts  not 3500 watts

In terms of the cost for the S7, I'll just bet it's more than you'll want to pay. I think that the primary driver for the S7 price will be "Whatever the market will bear". Unless they have some serious competition in terms of gear, they will try and extract every dollar they can for each miner. I don't think they care about ROI times, except to the extent that their customers do calculations and then buy or refuse to buy. Since the price of BTC also factors into customer calculations on return, that will fold in, but the number one driver will be what folks are willing to pay, large or small.

Right now, they seem to have approximately zero credible competition. The SFARDS pricing provided them with plenty of room to the upside. Besides, it's easy to lower the price later if folks aren't buying. I expect they they think there is plenty of pent up demand for new hardware, and they are probably correct. That won't lead to a low price.

Just my rather cynical $.02 on the pricing guesses for the S7.

BITMAIN Earth S1, the beginning.

https://i.imgur.com/vxJsHbe.png
First of all, s6 will not operate on SHA-256 ASICS.

S6 will operate on 10mm supercomputers made from mutated, hyperintelligent human brain cells. Bitmain estimates that those miners are going to be so efficient and effective that about 1/5 of the world's population will in some way invest in bitcoin. The demand is going to be so high that the bubble that's going to be created will make Bitmain the largest company in terms of revenue and reserves on earth.

Bitmain creates its own state and decentral bank. Shortly after they announce that there's not going to be a s7 miner since s6 turned out to be so efficient that it will remain profitable until the day only transaction fees are mined.

That's when Bitmain decides to invest into spacecrafts. In record time, they successfully launch a manned mission to Europa, the frozen moon. They establish a base there, this way it's easier for them to satisfy demand for miners from outer space. They also cover the planet's surface with self-sufficient S6s and since the planet itself is so cold, they manage to overclock them at a stable +40% hashrate.

https://lightsinthedark.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/europa_tstryk.jpg

Hashnest.com is now the main source of income of every state, human being and company worldwide. The planet is renamed to Bitmain Earth s1.

The S7 is showing up on Bitmain's site. Sorry if this is duped in another thread.


The fist pre-sale round will be deployed before 11:59PM on October 10th 2015 beijing time.

AntminerS7
Price: 1923.0 USD(8.05349228฿)  Stock: 978

         Power: 0.249w/GHS
Maintenance Fee:$0.0005796/GHS/Day

It's $1,823.00; Not $1,923.00 USD + shipping costs.  Its been available for purchase at least a week now.  I bought on day two (2) of their first availability.

He's talking about the S7 on hashnest. They cost 100$ more xD

Thx for clarifying...

Makes sense that they charge some for a PSU.   They are not going to eat the cost of anything.

Likely the 100 pay's for the PSU and cost of person to install it.

Now ... we need a new thread :).  We should be speculating S7+, S8, etc.   

So not sure who is the one who is active enough in this thread to do it, I think would be a good idea to get a new fresh start as this has already hit market.

There were 1000 S7 miners.They are just out off stock. Does any have an idea when the sales will begin on Bitmain's site?

Probably not until after S7 hash starts trading on Hashnest, and then restock late October. You can still buy an S7 to hash at https://www.hashnest.com/hash_currencies/25/shop stock remaining is over 800.

Probably not until after S7 hash starts trading on Hashnest, and then restock late October. You can still buy an S7 to hash at https://www.hashnest.com/hash_currencies/25/shop stock remaining is over 800.

Bitmain announced today sales for S7 to hash will reopen Nov 3. They still had 600 S7 left for sale when they closed the shop and started S7 trading on Hashnest. No mention of price but it would be hard to imagine they could get away with increasing price.

This is a quote from a thread titled:  "GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion"

The following statement was edited by the original author but quoted by another member before it was edited.


If the numbering of rigs is consistent with past numbers of rigs by Bitmaintech, the S6 (even number) will be a large form factor with built-in PSU like the S2 and S4 models.  The S7 (odd number) will be a similar form factor to the S3 and S5 without PSU.

I would expect the S7 to be approximately 2 TH/s @ .37 watts per GH for a total of 740 watts to make it available for power from a 750 watt [preferably 850 watt] PSU.  

I would expect the S6 to be approximately 4 TH/s @ .35 watts per GH for a total of 1,400 watts from a built in PSU that is able to provide 1,600 to 1,800 watts for potential over clocking.

As for the pricing of each rig; only time will tell.  The price seems to fluctuate with the price of Bitcoin as of late.

well see with the new S7 coming @ 3.5 th in Nov, if it is still over priced , I'll hold out till Dec then sell all my S5 and wait for the new miner at a much reduced price in Jan or Feb, if that wasn't a BS story or even do one of the Group buys but that's not the same as having it in front of me .

I can sell all my S5 right now if want to for 300 to 310 and have them sold in no time till maybe Dec . add a PSU with a break out  board Maybe 90 more :) .