Bitmain Antminer S6 and S7 Speculation

[sidehack]

You know the BM1384 can do under 0.35W/GH, right? I worked over some numbers a month ago speculating S2 upgrade kits, with suitable chip density they could make a 3.6TH miner off a 1KW PSU with the same power density (and therefore same fan volume) as the S2 if they really felt like it. It's possible to get 0.21W/GH from 28nm if done right, and pretty easy to do with 22nm.

[dmwardjr]

What do you guys think about this my post in the similar speculation thread?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920048.msg10985965#msg10985965

Batch 5 of the S5' is sold out now.  It will be interesting to see what happens.  Seems like we will see something happening soon.

There are two possible scenarios here.

1) Bitmain sells out used S5s from their own farm and makes an upgrade with some devices based on some next chip (as I mentioned before somewhere in this forum, many of Russian bitcoiners receive used S5s) and after their upgrade we will probably see S6, S7 or whatever.

2) Bitmain decided to go out of business and sells out their facilities (all that used S5 buyers receive) and we will not see any new hardware from them. They stopped even to promise that "upgrade for S2 will be available soon". They keep silence about S6 also.

Any comments?..

An interesting theory you have there.  I suppose it can make one wonder.  I only hope this is not the case.  Neither one sound good to me in the least.

I have not seen nor heard of these rumors you speak of.  How do you know the rigs received in Russia were used rigs?

[dmwardjr]

You know the BM1384 can do under 0.35W/GH, right? I worked over some numbers a month ago speculating S2 upgrade kits, with suitable chip density they could make a 3.6TH miner off a 1KW PSU with the same power density (and therefore same fan volume) as the S2 if they really felt like it. It's possible to get 0.21W/GH from 28nm if done right, and pretty easy to do with 22nm.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm sure there are others on bitcointalk.org who understand engineering and design about hardware and chips more so than myself.  I was not quite sure what the BM1384 could do.  I have not taken the time to research it very well.  0.21 watts a GH would be great.  If this is the case, we might see Farm Wars back in business again and difficulty climbing again.

[dmwardjr]

Difficulty has officially changed...

Apr 05 2015   49,446,390,688         5.84% increase       353,951,052 GH/s

[Rabinovitch]

I have not seen nor heard of these rumors you speak of.  How do you know the rigs received in Russia were used rigs?

First, inside many of S5 there was a lot of dust.

Second, if there were more or less large batches of S5s we should get the same versions of boards at the same time. Guys from bits.media told about v1.5, v1.7, v1.9 they received several days ago. IMHO hardware revisions should be sold according to the rule "first revision produced - first sold". So since all HW versions of hashing blades being sold these days, we can conclude that they all together were laying somewhere in Bitmain's data center and hashing (collecting the dust...), and now they sell it out by a "first HW version that came to hand" scheme.

[dmwardjr]

I have not seen nor heard of these rumors you speak of.  How do you know the rigs received in Russia were used rigs?

First, inside many of S5 there was a lot of dust.

Second, if there were more or less large batches of S5s we should get the same versions of boards at the same time. Guys from bits.media told about v1.5, v1.7, v1.9 they received several days ago. IMHO hardware revisions should be sold according to the rule "first revision produced - first sold". So since all HW versions of hashing blades being sold these days, we can conclude that they all together were laying somewhere in Bitmain's data center and hashing (collecting the dust...), and now they sell it out by a "first HW version that came to hand" scheme.

I can see what you mean there.  Either they were hashing or they could be "refurbished."  Either case is not good.  If one pays for a "new" unit, they want a "new" unit!!!  A used or refurbished unit should be at a used or refurbished price.

This could also explain why the price of the rigs have come down some in the last couple of weeks.

[notlist3d]

I have not seen nor heard of these rumors you speak of.  How do you know the rigs received in Russia were used rigs?

First, inside many of S5 there was a lot of dust.

Second, if there were more or less large batches of S5s we should get the same versions of boards at the same time. Guys from bits.media told about v1.5, v1.7, v1.9 they received several days ago. IMHO hardware revisions should be sold according to the rule "first revision produced - first sold". So since all HW versions of hashing blades being sold these days, we can conclude that they all together were laying somewhere in Bitmain's data center and hashing (collecting the dust...), and now they sell it out by a "first HW version that came to hand" scheme.

I can see what you mean there.  Either they were hashing or they could be "refurbished."  Either case is not good.  If one pays for a "new" unit, they want a "new" unit!!!  A used or refurbished unit should be at a used or refurbished price.

With hardware companies doing producing in batches.  What choice do they have it does not sell out?   

In a perfect world they would leave it new in box after a small test.  But with not selling them all I think it's understandable they run them.  That way if they don't see them and have to put it in a cheaper batch they don't lose money.

I don't think there is a company that can take the hit on just storing boxes and boxes of miners after paying for them to be made. 

[sidehack]

You know the BM1384 can do under 0.35W/GH, right? I worked over some numbers a month ago speculating S2 upgrade kits, with suitable chip density they could make a 3.6TH miner off a 1KW PSU with the same power density (and therefore same fan volume) as the S2 if they really felt like it. It's possible to get 0.21W/GH from 28nm if done right, and pretty easy to do with 22nm.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm sure there are others on bitcointalk.org who understand engineering and design about hardware and chips more so than myself.  I was not quite sure what the BM1384 could do.  I have not taken the time to research it very well.  0.21 watts a GH would be great.  If this is the case, we might see Farm Wars back in business again and difficulty climbing again.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.0

There is an efficiency chart in the first post of the thread about miners with that chip, which has been on the front page of the hardware forum for four months. That's what I calculate off of.

[dmwardjr]

I have not seen nor heard of these rumors you speak of.  How do you know the rigs received in Russia were used rigs?

First, inside many of S5 there was a lot of dust.

Second, if there were more or less large batches of S5s we should get the same versions of boards at the same time. Guys from bits.media told about v1.5, v1.7, v1.9 they received several days ago. IMHO hardware revisions should be sold according to the rule "first revision produced - first sold". So since all HW versions of hashing blades being sold these days, we can conclude that they all together were laying somewhere in Bitmain's data center and hashing (collecting the dust...), and now they sell it out by a "first HW version that came to hand" scheme.

I can see what you mean there.  Either they were hashing or they could be "refurbished."  Either case is not good.  If one pays for a "new" unit, they want a "new" unit!!!  A used or refurbished unit should be at a used or refurbished price.

With hardware companies doing producing in batches.  What choice do they have it does not sell out?   

In a perfect world they would leave it new in box after a small test.  But with not selling them all I think it's understandable they run them.  That way if they don't see them and have to put it in a cheaper batch they don't lose money.

I don't think there is a company that can take the hit on just storing boxes and boxes of miners after paying for them to be made. 

I believe I would have to agree with you there.  Which could also explain the price lowering maybe.

[dmwardjr]

You know the BM1384 can do under 0.35W/GH, right? I worked over some numbers a month ago speculating S2 upgrade kits, with suitable chip density they could make a 3.6TH miner off a 1KW PSU with the same power density (and therefore same fan volume) as the S2 if they really felt like it. It's possible to get 0.21W/GH from 28nm if done right, and pretty easy to do with 22nm.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm sure there are others on bitcointalk.org who understand engineering and design about hardware and chips more so than myself.  I was not quite sure what the BM1384 could do.  I have not taken the time to research it very well.  0.21 watts a GH would be great.  If this is the case, we might see Farm Wars back in business again and difficulty climbing again.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.0

There is an efficiency chart in the first post of the thread about miners with that chip, which has been on the front page of the hardware forum for four months. That's what I calculate off of.

Sorry, I haven't taken time to do much research on that chip along with the math.  Thanks for the link!

[RealMalatesta]

In all this speculation about S6 and S7, I'd like to get some information from Bitmain first.

Since Friedcat has disappeared, rumours are in the air that Bitmain and/or persons who are deeply involved in Bitmain's management had been on the board of AMhash ASICMiner.

Furthermore, the rumour goes that Bitmain had therefore firsthand access to specifications from AMhash ASICMiner chips, i.e. that Bitmain was able to produce chips which were designed for AMhash ASICMiner before AMhash ASICMiner was able to produce them.

These rumours are serious, and so I think it would be vital to know if

a) Bitmain was on the AMhash ASICMiner-board
b) any and which officer/emploee was on the AMhash ASICMiner-board
c) Bitmain and/or any of its officers/employees had thus access to any of the designs from Friedcat/AMhash ASICMiner

IF any of these questions is answered with "Yes", I believe it may take some looong time until S6/S7 come out.

[sidehack]

AMHash, or ASICMiner? Far as I know they're two different enterprises, if not exactly two different companies.

So are you suspecting that Bitmain's next gen chip is actually a repackaged BE300? Or that the BM1384 ripped it off? The BE300 was in engineering samples when the BM1384 was already being installed on miners, and also had more performance and a substantially different protocol. I guess it's possible that Bitmain might have taken hash core design from BE300 data and added on their own interface logic for data and comms, but I doubt that went into the BM1384 given the timing. The next chip, maybe, but then why would it take them eight months to pull it off?

Would be interesting to know for sure, but I would be surprised to find Bitmain swiped BE300 IP.

[RealMalatesta]

AMHash, or ASICMiner? Far as I know they're two different enterprises, if not exactly two different companies.

So are you suspecting that Bitmain's next gen chip is actually a repackaged BE300? Or that the BM1384 ripped it off? The BE300 was in engineering samples when the BM1384 was already being installed on miners, and also had more performance and a substantially different protocol. I guess it's possible that Bitmain might have taken hash core design from BE300 data and added on their own interface logic for data and comms, but I doubt that went into the BM1384 given the timing. The next chip, maybe, but then why would it take them eight months to pull it off?

Would be interesting to know for sure, but I would be surprised to find Bitmain swiped BE300 IP.

Sorry, you're right... edited AMHash to ASICMiner...

[philipma1957]

I think Bitmain is just holding their tech, no reason to sell the new product and raise difficulty when they can mine on it themselves and wait for competition to sell theirs first. Once a competitor puts out a new better than S5 miner than we will see the release of the new Bitmain products.

yeah this is very likely true.  there is zero need to grow hash rate unless price jumps.

I feel once sfards pushes out gear the s-6 and or s-7 will come out to put it in place. until then not much change.

[gallery2000]

There will be no S6 or S7.  Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

[mavericklm]

wish s7 will have same cooling and same holes and screws so i can upgrade to c3!

[unamis76]

There will be no S6 or S7.  Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

Bankruptcy? Can you please link that thread?

[philipma1957]

There will be no S6 or S7.  Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

Bankruptcy? Can you please link that thread?

Yeah I am not sure what BK is but I don't see how it could be Bankruptcy weren't they making bank? Like Hashnest is tons of profit and they hash at least like 25% of the network.

gallery2000 has had some wild threads and wild posts.  he is not what I consider a reliable poster.

[dmwardjr]

There will be no S6 or S7.  Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

Bankruptcy? Can you please link that thread?

Yeah I am not sure what BK is but I don't see how it could be Bankruptcy weren't they making bank? Like Hashnest is tons of profit and they hash at least like 25% of the network.

Don't believe gallery2000's hype.

I personally know of efforts by Bitmain to sell the new equipment coming out at a pretty reasonable price but once it earns your payment you give it back to them (you retain bonuses it earns) this may be the new model they want to start and possibly still selling large bulk to farms.

Group buys may begin to be the norm for home miners.

[tripppn]

I have a real love/hate feeling about Bitmain's keep quiet till it's ready to ship way of doing things.  I have to respect the fact that they don't do pre orders, at least no ones that are more then a couple weeks from shipping and they are always at least very close to shipping on time. 

On the other hand I want to know what those guys are up to...   The suspense is killer