Bitmain Antminer S6 and S7 Speculation

[steven.G999]

They are selling S5+ now, that means we won't see S7's in a short time. Maybe after Christmas?

[VirosaGITS]

They are selling S5+ now, that means we won't see S7's in a short time. Maybe after Christmas?

It was supposed to by July, but with this we can speculate getting them by as far as November. We'll just have to wait and see i guess.

[alh]

I also want to add that we know absolutely nothing about the S7. We don't know it's price, hashrate, power consumption, size/shape, date for 1st shipment, or chip technology. While I am willing to bet that it will be newer chips than the BM1384 for the S5 and S5+, we should probably not take it for grated it will be "home miner friendly". Every body seems to be assuming it will follow the pattern of the S1/S3/S5 in terms of form factor, and 120V usable power consumption.

I too was assuming that to be the case, though the S5+ makes me wonder. If we had a run a speculative poll of what an S5+ would have looked like back in June, who would have predicted the beast that was delivered? I think it would have been a "kindler, gentler, quieter, more efficient" S5, rather than three S5 frames bolted together with 3 blades per frame and 2x the fans, all at least as loud as the S5, practical only with 220V power.

I hope the S5+ doesn't mark a turn to "data center or farm" mining only. It might though.

[QuintLeo]

Based on Bitmain's past record of reusing design work, I'd bet the S7 will be same form factor and same front/back plates as the S3/S5.
I'd go 80/20 on 2 hash boards vs. 3 like the "S5+".
I'd bet on it being 1KW power consumption or less, but not on HOW much less.
Definitely new chip with better specs - but how much better is a good question, and a high probability they'll run the chip at or very close to it's LEAST efficient point to maximize hash rate NOT efficiency.

 Price, actual hash rate, power consumption, and date of first shipment are the big questions right now.
 Chip technology doesn't really matter except indirectly in how it affects the hash rate and power consumption.



 The S5+ is perfectly practical with 110V - I have no clue why people keep saying it needs 220. You DON'T have to run it from a single power supply after all.
 I do still think the S5+ should have been called the S6 though, even if it's not really rack-mount form factor it's CLOSE.

 I don't think the S5+ has a direct effect on when the S7 will go on sale - I think the only real holdup on the S7 right now is Bitmain clearing out all of their "used farm/Hashnest" S5 units as they get them replaced by S7 (or perhaps S8 or "S7+) units.

[VirosaGITS]

Based on Bitmain's past record of reusing design work, I'd bet the S7 will be same form factor and same front/back plates as the S3/S5.
I'd go 80/20 on 2 hash boards vs. 3 like the "S5+".
I'd bet on it being 1KW power consumption or less, but not on HOW much less.
Definitely new chip with better specs - but how much better is a good question, and a high probability they'll run the chip at or very close to it's LEAST efficient point to maximize hash rate NOT efficiency.

 Price, actual hash rate, power consumption, and date of first shipment are the big questions right now.
 Chip technology doesn't really matter except indirectly in how it affects the hash rate and power consumption.



 The S5+ is perfectly practical with 110V - I have no clue why people keep saying it needs 220. You DON'T have to run it from a single power supply after all.
 I do still think the S5+ should have been called the S6 though, even if it's not really rack-mount form factor it's CLOSE.

 I don't think the S5+ has a direct effect on when the S7 will go on sale - I think the only real holdup on the S7 right now is Bitmain clearing out all of their "used farm/Hashnest" S5 units as they get them replaced by S7 (or perhaps S8 or "S7+) units.

The people complain because it needs 2x 220-240v for optimal efficiency and also because 220v is more efficient, about 2% less waste, which at 90% is a 20% reduction in waste, up to 40%. Etc.

We could see a s7 be at around 0.8kWh for like 2.5TH. We'll see.

[philipma1957]

Based on Bitmain's past record of reusing design work, I'd bet the S7 will be same form factor and same front/back plates as the S3/S5.
I'd go 80/20 on 2 hash boards vs. 3 like the "S5+".
I'd bet on it being 1KW power consumption or less, but not on HOW much less.
Definitely new chip with better specs - but how much better is a good question, and a high probability they'll run the chip at or very close to it's LEAST efficient point to maximize hash rate NOT efficiency.

 Price, actual hash rate, power consumption, and date of first shipment are the big questions right now.
 Chip technology doesn't really matter except indirectly in how it affects the hash rate and power consumption.



 The S5+ is perfectly practical with 110V - I have no clue why people keep saying it needs 220. You DON'T have to run it from a single power supply after all.
 I do still think the S5+ should have been called the S6 though, even if it's not really rack-mount form factor it's CLOSE.

 I don't think the S5+ has a direct effect on when the S7 will go on sale - I think the only real holdup on the S7 right now is Bitmain clearing out all of their "used farm/Hashnest" S5 units as they get them replaced by S7 (or perhaps S8 or "S7+) units.

The people complain because it needs 2x 220-240v for optimal efficiency and also because 220v is more efficient, about 2% less waste, which at 90% is a 20% reduction in waste, up to 40%. Etc.

We could see a s7 be at around 0.8kWh for like 2.5TH. We'll see.

the s7 won't come out for months. 

 There is a good chance s-5++  can be made to run downclocked to 4.75th and use 1800 watts  that translates to .375 watts a gh.

I will be ordering an s-5+ this weekend and try to test the findings out from this thread.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151460.0


if it tests as expected the s-5 generation has a lot of life left to it.

No need for bitmaintech to sell s-7's

They will off load all s-5's and s-5+'s for months to come.  and if the mods allowing for lower power use pan out  we will not see a s-7 until Jan or feb.

[VirosaGITS]

Based on Bitmain's past record of reusing design work, I'd bet the S7 will be same form factor and same front/back plates as the S3/S5.
I'd go 80/20 on 2 hash boards vs. 3 like the "S5+".
I'd bet on it being 1KW power consumption or less, but not on HOW much less.
Definitely new chip with better specs - but how much better is a good question, and a high probability they'll run the chip at or very close to it's LEAST efficient point to maximize hash rate NOT efficiency.

 Price, actual hash rate, power consumption, and date of first shipment are the big questions right now.
 Chip technology doesn't really matter except indirectly in how it affects the hash rate and power consumption.



 The S5+ is perfectly practical with 110V - I have no clue why people keep saying it needs 220. You DON'T have to run it from a single power supply after all.
 I do still think the S5+ should have been called the S6 though, even if it's not really rack-mount form factor it's CLOSE.

 I don't think the S5+ has a direct effect on when the S7 will go on sale - I think the only real holdup on the S7 right now is Bitmain clearing out all of their "used farm/Hashnest" S5 units as they get them replaced by S7 (or perhaps S8 or "S7+) units.

The people complain because it needs 2x 220-240v for optimal efficiency and also because 220v is more efficient, about 2% less waste, which at 90% is a 20% reduction in waste, up to 40%. Etc.

We could see a s7 be at around 0.8kWh for like 2.5TH. We'll see.

the s7 won't come out for months. 

 There is a good chance s-5++  can be made to run downclocked to 4.75th and use 1800 watts  that translates to .375 watts a gh.

I will be ordering an s-5+ this weekend and try to test the findings out from this thread.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151460.0


if it tests as expected the s-5 generation has a lot of life left to it.

No need for bitmaintech to sell s-7's

They will off load all s-5's and s-5+'s for months to come.  and if the mods allowing for lower power use pan out  we will not see a s-7 until Jan or feb.

But i find that irritating, the s5+ is a very big chunk. A single unit form S5+ would be nice and affordable by piece. The S5+ right now is big and noisy, a lot of heat. I don't know what kind of noise you could get to with high quality performance low noise fans but that one unit is like my whole farm. =/

[philipma1957]

Based on Bitmain's past record of reusing design work, I'd bet the S7 will be same form factor and same front/back plates as the S3/S5.
I'd go 80/20 on 2 hash boards vs. 3 like the "S5+".
I'd bet on it being 1KW power consumption or less, but not on HOW much less.
Definitely new chip with better specs - but how much better is a good question, and a high probability they'll run the chip at or very close to it's LEAST efficient point to maximize hash rate NOT efficiency.

 Price, actual hash rate, power consumption, and date of first shipment are the big questions right now.
 Chip technology doesn't really matter except indirectly in how it affects the hash rate and power consumption.



 The S5+ is perfectly practical with 110V - I have no clue why people keep saying it needs 220. You DON'T have to run it from a single power supply after all.
 I do still think the S5+ should have been called the S6 though, even if it's not really rack-mount form factor it's CLOSE.

 I don't think the S5+ has a direct effect on when the S7 will go on sale - I think the only real holdup on the S7 right now is Bitmain clearing out all of their "used farm/Hashnest" S5 units as they get them replaced by S7 (or perhaps S8 or "S7+) units.

The people complain because it needs 2x 220-240v for optimal efficiency and also because 220v is more efficient, about 2% less waste, which at 90% is a 20% reduction in waste, up to 40%. Etc.

We could see a s7 be at around 0.8kWh for like 2.5TH. We'll see.

the s7 won't come out for months.  

 There is a good chance s-5++  can be made to run downclocked to 4.75th and use 1800 watts  that translates to .375 watts a gh.

I will be ordering an s-5+ this weekend and try to test the findings out from this thread.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151460.0


if it tests as expected the s-5 generation has a lot of life left to it.

No need for bitmaintech to sell s-7's

They will off load all s-5's and s-5+'s for months to come.  and if the mods allowing for lower power use pan out  we will not see a s-7 until Jan or feb.

But i find that irritating, the s5+ is a very big chunk. A single unit form S5+ would be nice and affordable by piece. The S5+ right now is big and noisy, a lot of heat. I don't know what kind of noise you could get to with high quality performance low noise fans but that one unit is like my whole farm. =/

the biggest downside is 7.7th is all riding on the controller  it goes poof and you lose your hash until a new controller is shipped to you.

S-5's can run 4 blades on one controller.  so if you have 2 s-5's you can double up the units until the new controller arrives.

AS for the wires being to short to do that  s-5's can run on their sides s-5's can run pointed straight up  so the controller can reach all four blades.

It would be nice to be able to buy  extra controllers from bitmaintech but as far as I know you can't.  ( I could be wrong here)

[VirosaGITS]

Ah. Thanks philipma1957 i noticed the 2 unused connector and was wondering if the controller was able to run loaded 4 blades. This is pretty nice, it could be nice to pickup a S5 with defective controller board and double up effectively getting a second S5 for real cheap.

[philipma1957]

Ah. Thanks philipma1957 i noticed the 2 unused connector and was wondering if the controller was able to run loaded 4 blades. This is pretty nice, it could be nice to pickup a S5 with defective controller board and double up effectively getting a second S5 for real cheap.

yeah there are threads from JAN 2015 that show it.

 also  a  thread that show s-5's mounted on a 20 inch box fan pointed straight up.  they ran for months  no issues.

[jonnybravo0311]

Well... the BM1385 certainly beat our predictions in this thread... it's slated to be 0.23W per GH (or 230W per TH).  Now we just have to wait and see what the actual units will look like.  If they're still drawing the same 590W like the S5, that's about 2.5TH/s.

[sidehack]

My guess for an S7, based on BM1385 posted info and a few assumptions (that 0.216W/GH 0.66V 32.5GH are concurrent at an expected stock operating point):

2x18 string per board for 72 chips total
2340GH per machine
About 530W DC expected draw, 590W wall (with 90% PSU)

This puts it at running a bit cooler than the S5, so hopefully also a bit quieter.

[jonnybravo0311]

I was a bit generous with the 2.5TH/s, but I just fudged it... you did the actual numbers and came up with a very acceptable value of 2.34TH/s for 590W at the wall.  I wonder if they're going to go with the large heatsinks (like the S1/S3/S5) or if they're going to adopt the individual smaller heatsinks like in the S5+...

[sidehack]

I hope they keep the same heatsink size. It's a fairly practical power density and I would not be opposed to seeing the S1 formfactor become somewhat of a standard for small miners. S5+ is a disaster.

[VirosaGITS]

I hope they keep the same heatsink size. It's a fairly practical power density and I would not be opposed to seeing the S1 formfactor become somewhat of a standard for small miners. S5+ is a disaster.

Its good that you know so. I would love some PCB to upgrade S1s from you, if you can ever get your hand on enough chips. Even though it could be hard to get them out anytime soon.

[sidehack]

Good that I know so what? All of that was hopes and opinions.

I'm hoping between myself and PlanetCrypto we can strike a deal with someone for chips. I would like to have a GekkoScience-branded actual miner (whether a standalone machine or "S1 Upgrade" or both remains to be seen) shipping for Christmas but it's not going to be easy.

I'm looking forward to hearing more info about the BM1385, an actual performance graph and such. That'd be nice.

[jonnybravo0311]

S1 upgrades?  Who still has those ancient things?

[sidehack]

(the S3 and S5 use the same chassis so would also be compatible)

[VirosaGITS]

Good that I know so what? All of that was hopes and opinions.

So nothing. Its good that you agree that the S5 was a rushed mess. That's my opinion on your opinion. In the end, just another opinion.

S1 upgrades?  Who still has those ancient things?

I do, at my electricity cost they still earn me, even after the BTC crash in the last 24 hours. So if the crash kick off some other miners, all the better for me.

[sidehack]

S5, or S5+? The S5+, like the S4+, I have a hard time understanding. Now if instead of designing an S5+ with 7.7TH in a terribly hideous and cumbersome form-factor and very little improvement on technology already eight months old, or an S4+ using more-than-year-old chips in a mediocre and highly-overpriced offering worse than any miner sold this calendar year, they had retooled the S4 build around the BM1384, it might have been something. A 5x17 string instead of 3x17 of BM1382 would have built a 4.2TH miner in the same case, same heatsinks, same PSU. That would have been worth buying. A clumsy behemoth trying to extract 1KW from a box the size of an S1 and with about a 10% power savings over the stuff they were shipping last Christmas, with no good way to power it and no good way to even shelve the thing safely? Yeah, definitely a mess.

I got about a dozen S1 sitting on the shelf waiting, and several stripped-down dead S5 chassis as well.