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Hi all!

Has anyone heard anything about B-ELEVEN ASIC miner? One russian site, 51ASIC.ru promises to sell it soon.

http://snag.gy/bEK61.jpg

All that I found here is their own thread and something about B-Eleven cloud mining provider in Chinese section:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1190324.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1190324.0)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157590.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157590.0)

Preliminary specs:

Hashrate: 3TH/s, 5TH/s or 10TH/s
Power consumption: 260 W/TH
Technology: 14nm
Price: $500 per TH/s

And here are some renders at bw.com website:

https://www.bw.com/pool/miner (https://www.bw.com/pool/miner)


Any opinions? Any details?

I saw the same renderings in another post yesterday where people were discussing Avalon, Insolicon, etc. I will dig it up.
I hope it is true, but I fear it may not be.

Do not order.  I believe the renderings were from LKETC (insolicon's long term partner).   - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033676.msg12650782#msg12650782

So the B-Eleven is actually someone Else's rendering.   Unless LKETC is letting them use the design which is unlikely.   

It's strange that 14nm-based miner has the same power consupmtion as S7, but it looks more expensive than S7... I hope real specs will differ for the better.

It is really since BM took the 28nm and perfected it in a way.  They kept same NM but found a way to get a lot more out of same NM.   SP did the same I believe and got even lower they are reporting.

On the 14 NM it is very very new (I don't know if we have even seen a working prototype).  But hope is later on they will be able to get even more out of it.

But it's looking like those who choose to stick with 28 NM are the winners right now as they are able to sell.

100% SCAM....after KnC, Butterfly labs and etc. who the fuck will purchase a miner (rendered wtf) from chinese site ? you have to be kidding me there are still peoples who believes in Santa.

 Not available yet but here is the original on the BW.com Website.

https://www.bw.com/pool/miner

The are hoping to have it ready for January 1st but would not be surprised if it was late.  :)

Discussion here.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033676.msg12650782#msg12650782


Rich

Interesting BW is a big name to get behind the miners.  So is it LKETC or BW that is doing that design?

I'm suspecting that it will be later then January 1st aswell.   With us still not seeing a prototype and it only having 2 months left in year not a lot of time to get mass production, unless they are just very secretive which is possible.

My understanding is Miner design is LK Group, chips assumed to be InnoSilicon? BW.com is planning using them in their  B-Eleven Cloud Mining Investment program with a target of 10000TH.

Rich

Ok that makes sense.   Kinda disappointing if first X number get sold to them for that.    That would be a while till LKETC needs us regular customers.

I was hoping they would open with Customers.  But if they do this it's likely a lot will be going to data centers if that is the model they already are mmaking deals with.

My assumptions are just gleaned from what I have read on the Net & Forum, no first hand information or experience.  :) What I do find interesting is the range of lower GH/S specs which are more geared towards Home Mining than Big Customers, so we will have to wait to see?

Rich

 It would appear that the chips (probably Innosilicon A3) used in it are not "full custom" 14/16nm, but rather are "standard cell" type which is a lot faster and more reliable to design at the cost of lower performance/efficiency.



 Lketc is part-owner of bw.com - doubtfull this is a scam with the track record Lketc has.


 The one quote I've seen so far on price was "0.76 BTC per TH" - nowhere near the $500/TH that the OP mentions.
 At $500/TH this would not be a competative design at all, with ZERO chance of achieving RoI even on very cheap electric.

They could be just using it to get some press with BW.  If they truly buy that many from LKETC I suspect they could ask for a special data center design.  Or they might do a ton of that design and just have a lot more hours of install's.   

And who know's they could do a controller like S5+ where you could link multiple modules together.  So they could do same design but use different controller that hooks up multiple.  That would take little effort.

I have seen 0.76 BTC/T but only in relation to their B-Eleven Hash Investment program.

https://www.bw.com/beleven

Have not seen anything in relation to a Miner purchase and would be very surprised if any prices had bee released yet?

51ASIC from the OP's  post just seems to have a speculative (Scam?) announcement.

Very soon !
NEWEST Miner B-ELEVEN
Heshreyt : 3TH / s, 5TH / s, 10TH / s
Power consumption : 260W / TH
Process technology : 14nm
Price: 500 USD for the TH / s

Rich

We have not even seen prototypes yet so I don't think they have chips yet.  I feel it's to early to know a lot. 

I feel Innosilicon either is behind schedule they originally had.  Or bitmain and SP keepng 28 nm surprised them.  I feel like Innosilicon is losing sells right now by not having chips.   And LKETC and BW, etc.  All not getting sells they would have got if Innosilicon would have perfected 28 nm like others do.

Their big hope is that get ahead of the 28nm chip's and they take time to catch up.  But with amount of money SP and bitmain have I don't see them falling far behind.

There was a comment about "December" early on in the info out of Lketc.

 I suspect Innosilicon is still on track, but Bitmain decided to push the S7 out the door a couple months early (and before they were REALLY fully ready for it) to preempt the slew of 14/16nm gear, or to at least give themselves a chance to get a chunk of sales for the 28nm gear they were already heavily invested into before it became "obsolete" and nobody wanted it any more.

 I suspect the SP50 announcement was more of the same.

It does resemble the S7 quite a bit.  "If they Rend-it don't Spend-it!"

i also think that the price speculated is far out from true. 1 th is sold on bw with 0.78 btc so this should be the correct price if the logic stands. we will see. hope sooner than later  ;D

Renderings do not get me excited at this point.  At one point I thought it was a big deal, but so many scam miners have done renderings it lost it's power over me.

I want to see a working prototype or something more concrete before  I trust someone on a miner.  I think they don't have a prototype yet or they would have released a video or something.  Instead we got a rendering.

i do not read chinese and i simply dont get the ideea of this business model. they are asking loans for a few months or what? or a very non-atractive cloud mining. if you guys understant better the bw deal please share  ???

BW is huge so it's not surprising they want to have a cloud mining setup.   If they are asking for pre-payments that would be pretty crazy.  Sadly I cannot read Chinese either (Someone needs to discover how to translate words in pictures I would love google translate if they did that).

BW is one of the biggest out there so if they are just buying a lot to get new miners, or doing cloud they chances will get a profit.

It's a pre-order for Cloud Mining on the B-Eleven, priced at 0.76BTC/T, now 0.78BTC/T. During Phase 1 before the miner is available you get .000312BTC/THS daily interest, equates to about 14% / year.

Phase 2 is theoretically Jan 1st however I suspect it will be later, it then reverts to a typical Cloud Mining contract. Have not looked into if it is good or bad as these things go? You can however trade your Hash on their Market.

Here is the full description.

Beleven cloud hash project contract

Before investing in Beleven, please read the terms below carefully.
Beleven cloud hash project description

Beleven is the latest cloud hash project of BW.com, the daily interest is 0.000312BTC/THS/DAY on stage 1. The mode to earn interest will be changed into mining income on stage 2.

How to invest?

Investors can take part in Beleven by investing in the hash, the minimum is 0.01TH/s, 0.76BTC/T.

Power Consumption：260W/THS

Electricity fee：0.5 CNY

Including the maintenance fee:260W*24h*0.5CNY/KWh/1000=3.12CNY/Day

The contract will be officially valid once investing has successfully started.

Exclusive income

Stage 1 income:From the day you invest till stage 2, you will get 0.000312BTC/T/Day.

Stage 2 income:there is no any extra fee for the investors and customers get all the income from the PPS mode.

Stage 3 income:Investors who start to be profitable will switch to co-share income stage in advance, for those who didn’t start to get how much they invest before July 1st, 2016, we will repay the rest and switch to co-share income stage.

From stage 2 to July 1st, 2016, we guarantee no extra fees including electricity fee before your investment becomes profitable, customers own all income of the investment. Investors who start to be profitable will switch to co-share income stage in advance, for those who didn’t start to get how much they invest before July 1st, 2016, we will repay the rest and switch to co-share income stage.

Co-share income

During co-share income stage, investors receive 50% of income after paying maintenance fee 3.12CNY/THS/DAY, the rest of the income will be used to(including but not only) paying for fees from stage 1, machine maintenance, miners, mining farm maintenance, unexpected accidents and venture insurance. The agreement will be temporarily terminated if the fees exceed the average income for 10 days and it will be officially terminated if the fees exceed the average income for 30 days.

Cloud hash mining machine

The cloud hash mining machine is based on the 14nm chips technology, the power consumption, weight and bulk can be modified due to the actual circumstance, and it is unnecessary to inform the investors.

Risk warning

The changes of Bitcoin price and the mining difficulty is a risk for the project.

The risk from political changes

BW will strictly respect the laws and industrial rules while designing every product.

Risk for the delay of stage 2 and fail to be repaid 100% of the principal.

According to the original plan, the stage 2 is supposed to be on Jan 1st, however, there is uncertain factors that might cause a delay of the plan, BW will withdraw the investors the principal money or paid the same daily interest of stage 1 until stage 2 comes.

Fail to be repaid 100% of the principal

BW guarantee users to get a 100% principal money back before July 1st, 2016, but there might be a chance that investors will lose their money due to the uncertainty of difficulty, price, policy and other circumstances.

Rich

Is this USD or CNY?  At usd that is lowest going still on a project like this.  That peaks my interest a little bit.

If it truly is CNY that is like .01 USD... which would be amazing but sounds to good to be true.  Please correct me if my math is off.

yup i saw that...now correct me if i am wrong....but why would you even consider to chase the stage 3? that is someting that has no sense...moving to stage 3 it would trigger less profit so the sell option is the logic one...whats the big ideea?  ???

all in all this sounds to me like a loan and maybe stage 2 as a pretty good cloud mining contract...i must be missing something or this is a very shitty deal  ::)

I read it as CNY which would equate to 8 Cents which is ok but not amazing?

I guess the idea of stage 3 is that you have got you investment back and that is when you make some money, but if the price was right to sell then that would be an option. I assume the Market will remain open throughout, you will of course be competing with other sellers so the price might be quite low?

I feel you are quite well protected and earning a good income during stage 1, stage 2 seems to have a money back guarantee, stage 3 is where you might make some money?
BW.com are probably ok, soI think as ever the big risk is what happens to BTC price during the contract?

I have made a small Investment to see what happens, they are paying the daily interest, you can also get interest on a BTC Deposit account there at 0.02% paid Daily which is nice.  :)

If you decide to open an account please use this recommender’s link  :)

https://23021.bw.com/ (https://23021.bw.com/)



Rich

at the exact point when you should start to earn some money they cut 50% of it...=> bad deal imho

On their website doesn't the price work out to about 18 cents per G not 50 cents per G?

Strange, the CEO has just announced this miner as a miner for the public in an interview to bitcoin magazine. Its not there own miner thats for sure. He says that minimum order  is 333 miners equal to 1PH.... for the public...
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bw-to-launch-nm-chip-and-miner-for-general-population-1445278227

They want to add 48 Peta per month .... (in their private farm)

If they release 48PH a month btc price has to go up. Since the halving wil take its share. So somehow they predict the price will rise to almost 600$ if I do the calculation right..

As I read the announcement, it was .87 BTC per miner. This is for a re-order, so take that for what it's worth. If they actually were to deliver 3TH for .87 BTC, that would be massive "shot across the bow" at Bitmain. The S7 is priced at well over 3x that. I didn't see any other details, but it would really upend S7 sales if true, and on time.

I think that will be 0.87 BTC/TH so for the 3TH Miner that is 2.61 BTC. That is also the Bulk price, individual prices will obviously be higher. However great that there might be another supplier to the Public.

Hope you are right, but it just sounds too good to be true......

Rich

Thanks for this. Interesting crowd sale for the B-Eleven, I may throw a few bitcoin in, already have an account at BW. Looks like there is a decent chance the hash could be sold at a profit once public trading begins January.

They do mention that is for pre-orders.   So they could hope to get big customers on pre-order.   Since 333 units is more of a data center order.

I'm hoping once it's truly out they lower the amount to order.  Guess we will wait and see.

Group buys carry some risk. Pre-orders carry risk. Put the two together, and the probability of failure just goes too high for me. I been in a couple and the best outcome was a small profit, only because we were able to sell the hardware to somebody else at a profit.

Some GB's do make a lot of sense like look at U3 or something.  Order of 20... group buy or re-seller is who are buying that.

I would not pre-order gear in this case (or almost any case).  I mean not even a working prototype shown just renderings.  To many stop at rendering stages with money.

I predict after release the number is dropped as they will have already gotten big buyers set up on gear from big pre-order numbers.  And it still could be a number that needs a group buy.  But I dont see the 333 number sticking forever.

They have already stated that later in the Year they will open up individual sales.
But there is no way these will be 0.87BTC ($235) for 3TH So I will stick with this being a /TH price. This is supported by the current B-Eleven Hash Investment being sold at 0.76BTC/TH

Rich

.87 B per TH sounds more likely than .87 B per miner - but it would still be better pricing by quite a bit vs. the S7 and would be in the ballpark of having a prayer of RoI with cheap enough electric.

(does a quick visit to bitcoinwisdom)

 Hmmm, using my current "standard assumptions" this thing will barely achieve RoI (NOT including cost of PS or shipping) at my current 6.7 cent "incremental" electric rate, *IF* it goes on sale to the public at 0.87/TH soon enough to get delivered by 1 December 2015 and if the halfing does not happen before mid-July.

 TONS better than the S7 manages at it's current pricing, but still a bit marginal at best for most folks.

I have just crunched some numbers from the available data on B-Eleven. Several assumptions made, so plenty of room for error.

Data from Bitcoin Magazine

ASIC 34.6 to 63GH/s
Core Voltage 0.59V to 0.76V
Power Consumption 18W


So if we assume that 18W is at 63GH/s (If 18W refers to a Lower GH then numbers are worse?

Then to get 3TH we need 48 Chips and consumption would be 18W x 48 = 864W = 0.28J/GH

If we add something for the Controller & Fan(s) thet might become 880W = 0.29J/GH

Now if we loose another 5% in the PSU that becomes 0.3J/GH

The other data we have accompanies the sketches, 260W/TH (We are not told if this is at the wall?)

Which would give 780W for 3TH which is 0.26J/GH

So take your pick, but these numbers are in the same league / slightly worse than an S7, would you not expect something better from a 14nm Chip?

However it's all about price & delivery date, we will see.  :)


Rich

S1 is 55nm but I take your point. Could also be the value of Full Custom showing in the BM1385 ASIC?


Rich

Any update on the B-Eleven?

No nothing more. I emailed them the other day asking if there were any updates and in reply they pointed me at Sina microblogging  but could not find anything there.

Rich

Sounds too good to be true with the power used. Also the people who made the threads in the quote ahve made maybe 1 or 2 posts and never been seen again. $500 per TH seems to be under cutting a lot of the other mines too. 14nm Technology used to lol id be surprised if this is really being used or actually made the equipment.

Each chip is capable of producing 34.6-63 GH/s, with a power consumption of 18 W based on a voltage range of 0.59-0.76 V. I will only believe such findings if theirs a unit being shown in real time and am around to see it live that it works or some company like bitmain or avalon pick it up or some company that people are buying from and not scam.

Sounds to good to be true more than likely is fake.

That reseller (51asic.ru) promised to provide one to me for testing and review once it will appear.  :)

Have heard that so many times. Even I have done with a number of places who started up promised to send equipment to test and never sent anything out. Am guessing are still awaiting to have a test unit sent out. Even when a unit comes can just send a unit out and get a review done on it and then still never send equipment out to customers. But will be interesting to see if really get sent a unit out to review. How long as it been since you where told you will have one sent out and any comments or response on them sending out?

 51ASIC.ru looks like a scam to me. However the miner is backed by BW.com / LK Group Limited and CHBTC. I would expect the Miner to be real, although they are still only showing renderings. They announced  0.87 BTC/TH so for the 3TH Miner that is 2.61 BTC for bulk orders. Individual prices have not been announced, also the exchange rate has moved a lot since then so would expect this price to change.


Rich

0.26 J/GH @ $0.50/GH is too good to be true?

It is proven, that these kind of efficiency could be allready achieved based on 28nm ASICs, so it doesn't seem to be an outstanding 14nm design.
And why should one pay a higher price per GH as for a comparable 28nm miner?

 Actually, the chip specs are competitive with the BM1385 in the Bitmain Antminer S7 on efficiency, and a hair better than the Avalon 6 chips.
 Nowhere near "too good to be true".

 $500 per TH would be MORE than Bitmain has been charging for the S7 by quite a bit, and somewhat more than for the Avalon 6.
 Not even in the BALLPARK of "too good to be true".


 BW.COM is part-owned by Lketc, of Dragon Miner fame - tends to lend legitimacy to the probability of the B-Eleven being a real unit fairly soon, per their announcements.

 It seems that the chip involved will be a non-custom 14nm design - leaving room for another generation of improvement and giving some EXPERIANCE at that process node, which might give the chipmaker a small head-start on the 14nm Full Custom generation over Bitmain (and WILL put them well ahead of Avalon given commentary out of those folks).

 There is still some question as to who is actually designing the chip - Lketc has a history of using Innosilicon chips in their miners, and Innosilicon let slip that their A3 14nm chip had been taped out some months back.


 I'd rate the probability of "fake" as pretty close to zero in this case, the only real questions in my mind about it are "when will it go on sale", "how much",  "what will be the exact details for TH and power usage", and "what sizes will it be available in".

On their Hash Investment page in the FAQ is this Question.


With this Answer.


I think there is more than one way the answer could be interpreted, however I interpret it as being they are using Samsung?


Rich

Some news about B-alaven chips (please use some translation service). https://forum.bits.media/index.php?/topic/9440-allrossiia-new-b-eleven-10ths-antminer-s7/page-7#entry335679 (https://forum.bits.media/index.php?/topic/9440-allrossiia-new-b-eleven-10ths-antminer-s7/page-7#entry335679)

Wow, that's awesome!  So actually on schedule, and we may very well see the 14 nm by January 2016. 

chrome translation I see chips will be in near Christmas or New Years

If true gear will be at least 1 month after that.  Lets say on my birthday Jan 27th.

So it is a waiting game for now.

Very intersting is there anything that tells efficiency?  I was thinking on miner they listed multiple speeds.  So I'm really curious what they do with this miner.

Really want to know efficiency to.

If they can do the 260 W/TH they claim it's efficiency is .26 J/GH which is good, but not better than Bitmains 28nm BM1385.

Surely a 14nm chip would be more efficient than that, right?  I am sure that can be greatly improved upon in time.

well bitmains s5 and s7 are both 28nm  and the s7 is much better then the s5.

so this is the first 14nm  the next one may have a big improvement not this one.

kind of makes me think they could be in trouble with this miner if it only gets down to .26 in a miner it will need to be very cheap price or just get the s-7

I read that it's not full custom, if so you might see the sort of difference between S5 & S7 when they are able to progress?

Rich

We need a low cost miners that can hash in the the tera's...  The S7 is great and all but it's so expensive..  I'm just a hobbyist miner but with the difficulty increasing all the time, it's starting to suck for us small guys  :'(

Actually some miners are already cheaper as higher BTC price.  This causes  the miners to be cheaper if you were holding onto BTC.  So that is good if holding already, if you are not holding it has no effect.

But i have a feeling "low cost" will not meet where you want it to.  If you want current gen miners you pay for it... and they hold value longer and you can even sell them one day when you go to get new.   If your wanting "low cost" you really need to have lower electricity and then can look at used miners.

Well, I have ordered a semi-professional noise meter and an IR-thermometer, because they have confirmed once again that they expect this miner will arrive soon.  ::) Can't wait to get my hands on it.

Do you not find it odd they are only who has said soon?   Normally a site or two will talk about it if really close.

I think it's further out then "soon', but I would love to be wrong.  But i just don't see the chatter I expect us to have once it's close to release.

Well I read soon as mid Jan to late Jan

I still stand by what I said when the OP was first raised this in early October, that the info from 51ASIC just seemed to be a speculative (Scam?) announcement.


In terms of B-Eleven I agree with Phil that we are going to be well into January at best before we see product. Also remember they have all the pre-sold Hash to deliver and the Bulk order customers.

Rich

Probably this is like the new trend SFARDS started..show a working product eventually ...have the price way to high (some fools will buy) limited guanity lot of 100 (so more $$$ so the wholesalers can sell it at a profit to newbie home miners) very few if any hit the world ..the real goal is newbie IPO $$$ *much richer then home miner newbies*

and then the silence starts when IPO $$$ is reached (or in SFARDS case...they announced another batch 'someday' also in 100 lot buys only)

rinse/wash/repeat

the product annoucne gets the word out shows your chops...gets you IPO $$ plus some chump change from the overypaying small amount of miners you sell to 1st adopter newbies....then make data hall....and run it around again for the next version

seems to be the trend imho (sfard/spondoolies etc)

er again pre-orders are dead..have to show 'some kinda product' but the real point is to get the newbie IPO bucks indeed :)

@Rabinovitch So did you get any more updates yet other than promised a unit, Am sure if already have the equipment it does not take this long for shipping units out no doubt going to be waiting but will be nice to see whats under the hud of one if really going to stick to word and get a unit for testing.

I know what you are going to say  but why did it go up that high to start with, if they were selling them for around 3 to 500 per miner . that made no sense but did but my thought on the did doesn't all ways agree with others .

but one thought is they messed up there sells some how and got to far a head of them self and have to make it up some how or the other thing i won't go there .

I don't agree they had to they didn't have to . no one ever has to  :) .

you might be right ,  kind of hate that to .  i get that feeling well never hear from these guys again then one day well see there miners being sold as used some place same thing with SFARDS they will sell off any and all 28 nm miners they have once they start there next gen something like KNC does now . what's  bad is they don't see how it hurts everyone !!! :( including them, over time  .

Look at how miners have evolved.  I started in GPU day's.  But think asics back to USB sticks... yes you could get them cheaper as they were very cheap to produce.  Chances are we all overpaid quite a bit.

But look at miners now some are huge.  I mean Avalon 6 and S7 are getting some big numbers on speed, and at good efficiency.  So miners of today vs when asics started are very different.

On price each company I'm sure has it's own plan.  But I still think what it mines is considered.  If it's going to mine a lot more for then then selling... then using it themself sounds pretty good.  To sell to another then need a quick profit to justify it vs long term of keeping it and mining it.

Honestly on last two paragraphs I'm not totally sure what your saying if you want to clarify.

my point is they didn't need to raise the price. why or what i mean really means nothing to any one etc !!! just some random thoughts, i had about how things go up and they don't need to .:). and maybe why they did . if you renumber one of there interviews about the S7 how they were still for Home miners , that went out the door with the S5 +, it  was a test but not why  they told us. sorry for what might seem like the rumbling of a mad man. there not .

I love mining but not for the money , it keeps me sane .The money is just candy that comes from doing it.


it actually started with CPU's , i renumber searching the web back when it all started and even had it running on a PC Cpu mining but saw no point then . the rest is history. A friend who is now dead also did it back then. wish i had listened.
 
Just me being old, pushing 60 now or close.

I think it is pretty random as this miner does not even have a cost yet that I know of.  There is still a lot not decided.  So saying it's high.... is really  speculation.

But I agree would love to get them cheaper on miners.  But it's based on what you can get partially from mining.  If a mining company could get more why they ever sell gear?

So it's they are going to sell at quick profit.  But with current price of BTC I don't expect it to go down much unless difficulty goes crazy.

One early post mentioned $500/TH, which WOULD be high - but I doubt the actual price when it's released will be that high, unless the price of Bitcoin keeps pushing up.

 I am starting to wonder if it will be Innosilicon A3 based though - the numbers just aren't adding up give everything Innosilicon has let slip about the A3 in the last month or so.

My understanding was that they had announced 0.87BTC / TH for large orders of 1PH, that was available until end of November, have seen nothing since. My assumption is that the chips will come from Samsung?


Rich

I can get a used 'ebay high priced' knc neptune 3.5TH unit for around 750 bucks buy it now ...RIGHT NOW at 1250 watts I think they are?

So that price is not too attractive for something maybe months away imho :)

 a recent sold example below

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNC-NEPTUNE-Bitcoin-Miner-Set-/361435838266?hash=item542741373a:g:xyQAAOSwv-NWVJQB (http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNC-NEPTUNE-Bitcoin-Miner-Set-/361435838266?hash=item542741373a:g:xyQAAOSwv-NWVJQB)

 anyway just saying they probably will have to do better then that ..unless your elec is so damn cheap (3c-4c kwh) you'll make money on that price for equip anyway :)

so MAN they will have to really really dump the price per TH down with the above comparison imho

The $500 came from a site that may or may not be legit 51ASIC.ru as mentioned at the beginning of this thread.  I don't believe a price has ever been mentioned for the physical hardware, but the B11 hash contracts went from .76 to .87 BTC/TH if I'm not mistaken, and the B12 contracts are going for .5 BTC/TH right now.

First batch of B11 Hash Contracts were 0.76BTC/TH, next batch were 0.78BTC/TH although I not think they were all sold as BW replaced them with B12 which started at and is now at 0.5BTC/TH but was adjusted with exchange fluctuations and at one point was at 0.65BTC/TH.

I agree the $500 should just be ignored and the only "real" price I have seen is the one Bitcoin Magazine article I refered to earlier.


I am interpreting the 0.87BTC as being per TH and was for "Large Orders", with no indication of what a one off order might be?. However that article was back in October when BTC was about $260 so that could be good news?  :)


Rich

I personally think they have these miners for testing atm, and will reach their anticipated in house launch date of Jan 1, 2016.  I am pretty excited for the B12 offering they have once it goes live, and think if they in fact do produce this hardware miner for the public it will be competitively priced. 


This is a little worrying to me as far as getting our hands on them since it appears they may only want to produce large quantity orders.  If they do in fact offer some 10 MOQ orders I will def be interested with their prices speculatively looking pretty attractive with bitcoin now at $420 and climbing.

A lot is still in the air with this miner.  They pre-sold a LOT of gear they will do their own cloud.  That no doubt will be first to go up.

From there it will open up to public I think.   But we still don't know size, price, etc.  We have not even seen a prototype.  So there are to many unknowns to really do any good guesses.

So just pulling together all of the history. B11 & now B12 is BW.com third "cloud funded" pre-sold hash investment. I assume that the earlier ones, B1 & B9, were based on previous generations of LK Group hardware and as far as I can establish they were profitable for the investors. What I do not know is on the earlier ventures what the lag was between taking the money and miners coming online?

As I understand it the B11 ASIC's have again been designed by the original team at LK Group, using Samsung 14nm FinFET with BW.com designing the Miner itself.

People had put a lot of money in with nothing other than the Financial details, so they seem to trust BW to deliver. Some time later we saw the very poor renders along with a spec with major omissions from the details including the number of chips etc. Only other information to emerge was from the Bitcoin Magazine article shown above. Finally we had the info from 51ASIC chips will be available on December 14 and that they expected a sample miner at the end of December.

Here's hoping that it all goes well and that they do make B11 available to the home market at sensible prices.

Rich

how do you figure?

$500/TH would be higher than what Bitmain wants for the S7 - which is ALREADY iffy to achieve RoI unless you have very very cheap electric.
The published specs show the B-Eleven being a hair LESS efficient than the S7, so it's both going to return less per TH and cost more per TH than the S7, making it HARDER to achieve RoI on it than the S7.



 This is the first time Lketc would have designed their own ASIC - previous Lketc miners used Innosilicon chips.
 They have a good track record with miner design, no track record with ASIC design - which puts them one step ahead of Gridseed/SFards.

R&D is done and it sounds like this miner will be out for sale by the end of January 2016 to early February 2016 with no more information released.  I was told updates will be made via their website for price or if there are any delays.

Also talks of a B13 hash opening but no confirmation from their management.  I personally feel like these will be competively priced to the S7.

So 30 more days to wait for it.

Maybe it is why bitmaintech dropped price on the batch 9 and scheduled it to ship at the end of january

That very well may be.  It seems so far away but will be here before we know it, and hopefully some information/photos will leak before then.

Just noticed that BW.com added 15PH this morning at 04:00. Could be B11 Miners coming on line? They are however a public pool so could be anyone, but have never seen this much Hash added in one go before?


Rich

Antpool is having problems so its the backup pool I guess.

I would say they are bringing the B11 online.  They were scheduled to launch the first mining stage for B11 purchasers Feb 11th so I bet they are bringing them online between now and then.

Hash rate at BW.com has been creeping up again over the last few days with another chunk Today taking it from 70PH a Week ago to 86PH. Could be anyone but if they are going to meet the Feb 11 date that's only 2 Weeks away and would make sense to mine for themselves a bit first?


Rich

Hi all

I'm looking for some information about bw. But i have some hard time figure out what's the ROI over bw cloud mining product .

I found out about trading fee , but nothing about income per day and per TH ? what are the electricity or maintenance fee  ? 

what's the diffeence between hash investment and b12 or B11 hash investement ?

is ther some graph about the price I can find somewhere ?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

B11 & B12 are now closed to investment, however you can buy on the secondary market. Main Difference is when the Miners will start hashing and the guaranteed return amount.

See the FAQ at the bottom of the page here.

https://www.bw.com/beleven

And supplementary Instructions here for further info.

https://www.bw.com/news/show-54


Covers most things, that is most of the info I have, any gaps let me know and I will attempt to answer od give you my guess.  :)


Rich

BW have restated that they Phase 1 B11 Hash investors will stop receiving interest and start earning mining income on Feb 11. So looks like the added BW.com Hash over the last Month was probably B11 miners coming on line. I wonder when we will see a proper picture / specification  and when they will start selling miners?


Rich

hmmm...so they are selling 'hash' only in the above link and individual miners later (after their data hall etc above runs btc difficulty up for a few months) :)

(assuming I have this correct Chinese link and all) :)

I think we have probably seen most of the hit from the hash Investment miners as BW.com has grown from 50PH to nearly 100PH over the last Month. Does not have to be B11 of course as it is a public Pool, but it would be reasonable for them to get them up and running mining for themselves first?

This is the latest info.

https://www.bw.com/news/show-64

Rich

Not sure what went on at BW.com this Morning but they dropped 25PH at 02:00?


Rich

from reddit today/yesterday:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46170h/introducing_the_bw_14nm_asic_chip_bwlk1401/d01n15h

https://i.imgur.com/vXBHfd3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ELm0ahd.jpg

does not look like this:
https://www.bw.com/pool/miner

full album: http://imgur.com/a/WHajz

Sweet, should finally see more photos surface soon and an announcement on the bw website.  Wouldn't mind the opportunity to get one of these.

Interesting to see some pictures of the B11 Miner although it does not completely make sense, quite apart from looking nothing like the renderings on their website.

https://i.imgur.com/ELm0ahd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/vXBHfd3.jpg

Those wires coming out through a hole look very odd?


Rich

2 blades with 2 6pins on each?!

The black and red wires might be from the fans? ::)

Yes agreed on the wires for fans & the black connectors being 6 Pins & the White for data?

Is it that these are an inner casing?

https://i.imgur.com/NtjXBLK.jpg

With these pictures being of the complete miner in an outer casing?


Rich

Wonder what the price will be. Too bad they won't start selling until April. In April you can buy Bitfurys gear.

And with Bitfury and BW stuff all online by then you'll be looking at  > 2EH on the network haha.

From a security point of view it will make me warm and fuzzy.

No that's an old pic of Dragon miners

Seems reality of the design process stepped in and objected to the idea shown in the pretty renders ;)
As for the (fan?) wires coming out of what seems to be a hole for LAN socket, rather doubt they were like on the models sent in for Safety Agency approvals. Bare wire through unprotected holes in sheet metal like that is verboten. Only  takes a 1-cent rubber grommet to fix that. Using for a PR pic, um, oops?

Thanks for posting I also find it interesting on pretty different design then rendering.  I do wonder if they make a different one for internal use then external sales.

If I was them I would focus on a miner that is most profitable on sales.  And on internal I would be trying to have more chips, and have most optimized for personal farms.  Having 2 different models might make sense at least at first when filling up their own farms.

Just revisiting these pictures

https://i.imgur.com/ELm0ahd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/vXBHfd3.jpg

I think these are probably Miners that have not yet completed the assembly process.

As previously discussed the 4 Black connectors look like 6 pin power, 2 for each of 2 hash boards. The White connector probably Data to each of the Hash Boards. I am doubting that the Black & Red wires are for the fans as you would expect a smaller gauge & 4 wires if you want to monitor & control speed.

However what is missing is the controller Board, can't see that being inside the hot casing? So perhaps it fits on the top of the unit? As to the Black & Red wires I do not know?

Hopefully more pictures & specs will be out soon.


Rich

I re-read the article I was to into looking at pictures at first.   I saw in it they say "The power consumption of the BW-LK1401 chip is 160W/T, which makes it the lowest in the industry. Building on this technology the second generation BW-LK1402 chips are currently in production with a lower power consumption of 95 W/T"

Is that a correct number on watts to T?  That seems like a huge and good jump if true.  To think a S7 1300 watts for 4.7T or so, this would do 1300 watt's for 13T if I read this right.... man is that a huge difference in efficiency.

Yes I have just been reading the same stuff and I think we might have been underestimating the B-11.

The spec on the website has 260W/TH which was no great shakes However the article has much better numbers.
   
BW-LK1401    160W/TH which gives 0.16 J/GH significantly better than S7
BW-LK1402    95W/TH which gives 0.095 J/GH getting to Bitfury territory

BW-LK1401 is Full Custom which we had not expected.
BW-LK1402 Optimised design with an ETA of 4 Months.


Rich

Found a couple of pictures showing the hash Board.

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/uploads/1455612638/gallery_2150_2322_53281.jpg

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/uploads/1455612638/gallery_2150_2322_12145.jpg


Rich

Shouldn't machines solder the parts together? Or do workers do it individually one resistor/one capacitor at a time.

Looks like the miner will be HUGE!

Most components will be machine placed, some components like connectors can be fitted by hand or could just be touchup?

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/uploads/1455612638/gallery_2150_2322_15153.jpg

Pictures are a bit misleading on size, which is actually given in the Miner Photo as 135mm x 150mm x 295mm


Rich

Holy shit...they are using a buck for every 4 chips...thats going to be one expensive board. Seems like every chip has a single tantalum output cap as well...thats insane. Looking at least 2-3 bucks of power components PER chip. Then chip cost on top of this...theyll have a hard time competing with bit fury. Does not seem like each chip can output more than 50GH based on the inductor either.

EDIT: Each board has 2 6Pin connectors, so even if they pull 200 watts per connector we are looking at ~400 watts per board, or 2.5TH per board, or ~60 GH per chip which is in line with what I previously calculated based on the power buck design.

Yes 2 - 2.5TH / Board sounds about right. Much as I like the simplicity and efficiency of String designs it is actually quite nice that this is a Conventional Buck Converter based unit, could make for a more reliable unit with undervolting being easier. Also I suspect that the added component cost is quite small and with Miner pricing not seeming to be based off cost it may have very little influence on the selling price.

Rich

Well your look at LEAST 100 bucks in component costs for the buck design in this board. Let say they sell the chip half of what bitfury is so around $5 that will be ~300 bucks, so I can't see them selling this below 400 per 2.5 TH.

well maybe I will get one some day.  but no links for purchase so once again oh well.

A 5 th 400 - 450 watt unit would be nice to own.

Nice Pics RichBC hope to be able to get my hand on one of these  ;D

I'm guessing BW get's internal put in first before us little guy's get a chance at buying.   It would make sense as them to want to get as much as they can before having.   And it's hard to say how much of these they will do for internal mining they sold a LOT of cloud so should have a good amount set for this.

The good news is i do think it's a miner we will all be able to own and I agree love the specs as of today.  I just think it will be a while for us to be able to buy one.

BW have started making payments on Phase 1 of the Hash Investment. Headline sales were a Total of 10PH for B11 & 5PH for B12. However looking at the interest payments and the first B11 Mining income payments I calculate the following.

B11 Phase 1 (Paying Mining Income from 11 Feb) 3.486PH (Paying BTC0.003437/TH/Day)

B11 Phase 2 (Paying Mining Income from 21 Feb) 7.998PH
B12            (Paying Mining Income from 29 Feb) 5.001PH

Total Hash Sold 16.486PH


Rich

EDIT Checked the data & corrected the above numbers. In fact they now add up to more than the headline hash sales...

Thought those 160w/GH and 90w/GH numbers were for the chip, not the miner?

 If so, that puts the miner efficiency at being probably only a little better than the published 260w/GH on the initial B11.

 The 90w/GH figure is nice to see though, gives BitFury some actual competition if/when it shows up.



 Optimally they DID set up the bucks to be controllable for undervolting - AKA the SP20E vs. string in the S5.

Yes good point on the Chips v Miner efficiency. However I think still measurably better than 260W/GH, even if we allow say 10% for the Bucks & another 10% for the PSU that would make it 192W/GH.

Let's hope they have made provision for controlling the Bucks? Hopefully a lot of information should emerge soon on this Miner.

Rich

whats gonna be nice if it all falls in line  we will finally have 4 big makers of miners to pick form, prices should come down a lot, we should have our pick of what size we want to buy or can afford etc and still make out good, if it all works out like they claim time will tell.

Avalon
Bitmian
bitfury
BW aka LK.


if it all happens and they all keep selling to the public after it happens, i see a very bright and nice time for all .

Not sure if this was posted yet:  https://www.bw.com/news/show-65-proclamation

Look for miners available to the public in April.  Lots going to be hitting the market in April if Bitfury delivers too.

What crappy chip ID stenciling.. Looks almost like they found a chip packaging house that normally does counterfeit chips.
That said, would be nice if they show up for us.

hm, interesting to see this

 BW also provides a convenient and efficient way for users to mine BTC, LTC and DOGE on our mining pool, an interest wallet for customers to store their capital with stable income and hash investments all on an open and transparent platform.



slush pool is about to add some kind of direct script mining to it's pool and make it so we can cash in our own alt coins mined there . or do the same as bw does.

all right here

https://slushpool.com/devcorner/

exciting afford able stuff coming it looks like.

with these new and improved miners coming it's going to be fun to see price wars etc. we need it.

I made account on BW site months ago i could never login into till now .

This is actually not to bad we get interest from what i see on our BTC and LTC and other coin once you set it up and it doesn't have to be a set a mount, so far it looks like .

 so I'll mine and let it set and hope they keep going and build interest.

 Not sure why you're including Avalon in that list, they stated when they released the 6 that they had NO PLANS to go to the 14/16nm node (which at best puts them several months and more likely a YEAR out from now before they could possibly have their own 14/16nm chip).

 You SHOULD include Innosilicon, though.

Innosilicon has been quite for a long time though.  They took on a big task going after 2 chips at once.  They mentioned A3 and A4 dev all at once.

I would have focused on A3 if I was them and got it as it would have much higher sales.  Then worn on the A4 on scrypt.  I do wonder if they hit some snags as they were very open a while back, and have went pretty silent.

It sure would be nice if I could read the latest B16 Hash posted on the website....

Not sure why they have jumped from B12 to B16? 149W/ TH is interesting and is too good at the Miner level for the BW-LK1401 Chip so must be based on the improved BW-LK1402?

Great pity that they expect investment without sharing much information, they have not even updated the data on the b11 yet.


Rich

Who knows. I was trying to figure out what the countdown was too, and think it may be for when sales open up.  I tried translating each section with Google but still not sure what the terms are: when the contract starts, will interest be paid like B11, B12, and if so how much? , etc....

They sure are quicker to sell cloud hash than launch a physical machine so I guess that should be approached with caution for now.

Yes I think we are in countdown, 7 Hours to go, to investment opening, although no indication of how much they are selling? I also tried some translation, but hopefully English version will appear in the next day or so?

I am in on B11 (Phase 2)  & B12 and am quite hopeful as the miner appears more efficient than first announced. Will probably have some B16 but will wait to see the detail first.

Rich

I follow 51asic on instagram and he posted a picture Yesterday with the new b-eleven 2.8th miner.

I afsked him the Price and he replied 575$

wow! where can you purchuase this miner?  :o

Interesting.. If the pictures are different from those in this thread can you please post them here?

Rich

OK I found the 51asic picture, looks like they have taken delivery of a few.

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/uploads/1455955880/gallery_2150_2322_60314.jpg

Still not clear to me what the Red & Black wires are, but we can now see they have plugs on. Still feel there is something missing (The Controller?) here as those trailing plugs are odd & where is the RJ45?

However I make 750W & 2.8TH to be 0.268J/GH which is very disappointing. Just hope that is a spec sheet quote & that they are better than that?


Rich

This would be the first public sale of 14nm I think.   So impressive on that part.  I agree on specs I don't know if those deserve to be called B11's.  It's no where near the specs - https://www.bw.com/pool/miner

And 2T is smaller then the 3T mentioned as bottom speed on miner spec page.   So.... i'm hoping these are internal miners and rush to racks to use before having.  And we will see a better miner for B11 hit market.  That is my hope.

That's a bad price since its only 2.8TH/s and 0.25W/GHS. An S7 is better.

Noise-wise BW might be better : 2 fans in parallel to cool 750watt....

Price still high! ;D

 2.8T is close enough to 3T to count. The efficiency is close to what they pre-announced, no shock there.

 Still, too little too late to matter to anyone that didn't preorder the B11/B12 hash stuff.

 It will be interesting to see how soon they can get their 1402 chip to market - the one that appears like it MIGHT be fairly competative with the new Bitfury chip....

B16 cloud mining is released as 149w/ths...

I am assuming that B11 & B12 are based on the BW-LK1401 Chip & B16 on the BW-LK1402 Chip?

Here are a few numbers from the various bits of data that have been released.

BW-LK1401 Chip 160W/TH 0.16J/GH
BW-LK1402 Chip  95W/TH 0.095J/GH

B11 Miner 260W/TH 0.26J/GH
B16 Miner 149W/TH 0.149J/GH

B11 ends up a bit disappointing with significant losses between the chip and the Miner, presumably because of the Buck converters?  This make it only an S7 class miner, whose Days are numbered.

The B16 is better however still significant losses between Chip and Miner, 36% so presumably still Buck based rather than string?


Rich

I have been thinking about this miner some... and I think this proves low electricity cost's.  To not meet refined efficiency but still go in a production of it, means they see profit in it.

So likely they have extremely cheap electricity which would make sense.  And once they get a better batch of chips I suspect likely it's a easy switch to put new chips in.

It may of course not be their electricity cost, but the Hash Investment carries a charge of 0.5 CNY/KWh which is about 8 Cents. So far from Cheap?

Rich

Same thing with Hashnest. They profit by obtaining cheap power then charging customers over 8 cents per kWh.

I agree they charge customer far above what they actually pay I think.  I am willing to bet they pay a few cent's..... and charge customer that 8 cent's.  Makes for extra profit for them.

There is no way hashnest pay's 8 cents even after cooling and everything.  They are well below it (I suspect at least in China mines).

Yeah no doubt about it, that's where their money really comes from.

If they would charge us what they get I suspect we would have a lot better chance of profit.   Cloud mining at maybe 2 cents or so of cost.... now that sounds like a pretty attractive investment to me.

But I don't see them ever sharing cheap electricity sadly.  They will keep that internal, and in some places I really don't think 1-2 cents is crazy with usage they provide.  I think they have some pretty amazing deals (this is all speculation).

Not B11 but BW have just put up for sale some used mining equipment. Unfortunately it's a graphic so cannot translate, but I guess it's indicative of things moving on.



http://www.slotforum.com/forums/uploads/1457694200/gallery_2150_2322_123002.jpg

I assume these are what were known as B1 & B9?



Rich

Looks like prisma and dragon ::)

It is... He said it was old used equipment.

That 1.5T dragon is a HEAVY miner to.  It was in 40-50 pound range if I remember right.  I think shipping of them is going to be a little hard.  I selling that one and after was like ohhh crap this is heavier then I remember.

Are they selling in bulk? Or just single units?  I'm surprised if they are interested in spending time selling old gear 1 by 1.  The good news... maybe they are closer to spec on B11 and making room.

I was curious about the new miner, so I asked BW about it via e-mail.
And I even got a response pretty quickly.  :)
https://i.imgur.com/GCAyttz.jpg (http://imgur.com/65NcEkd)
  (click on thumbnail)

Good to get a reply, even if it does not say much....  :)

Rich

Yeah. They are up to it, but they don't promise any schedule yet  :-\

But the good thing is it seems they did not say ohhh no home/hobby miner.  I think this will be a next gen that us normal people can get.  Which is great I think for us.

I hope we see one some with great specs....  but I will settle for them selling to home/hobby even if it takes longer :).

They said the same thing when I emailed at the end of December. They're mining in house and will release the miner to the public when it's just about obsolete for most people IMO.