Bitcoin Forum

Continued from another thread...

What bothers me is the SA culture in general. I've thought about it at length yesterday, and realized that SA are essentially a bunch of jealous ludites. Here are some examples why that is true:

1) Furry fandom is a community of incredibly artistic people, full of painters, writers, musicians, and entertainers, who organize, put together huge international conventions, and raise hundreds of thousands for charity while contributing tens of millions of dollars to local economies of the cities hosting those conventions. The only thing SA contributed is to make fun of them.

2) SecondLife allowed for unprecedented communication, collaboration, and creativity. Players there got a chance to explore design, fashion, and architecture skills they never even knew they had. They used their creative skills to make new games, experiment with fashion in virtual space, and practice things like investment and business/real estate management before building real life businesses using those skills. People there earned from thousands to millions of dollars using nothing other than their brains and creativity. The only thing SA contributed is to make fun of them by making random penises fly around, and when told that they are causing serious damage and costing actual money, their only reply was, "don't take it so seriously."

3) Bitcoin is a new financial concept entirely without precedent. We are only scratching the surface of what is possible with it. The only reason it has any value (and the thing SA seems to focus most on) is that it is impossible to duplicate, and has a guaranteed limit on quantity, which is extremely unusual in the copy/paste digital world. But besides inflation resistance, it can do awesome things like, for the first time ever, allow software to own valuable property. This was never possible before, w/ closest thing being that a program could control bank accounts or own contracts in someone else's name. Now, for the first time, it's possible for a program or a "virus" to own money, decide on its own how to spend it, and actually take it with it as it travels around the web. The possibilities for AI, concept of property, and ownership/copyright law are mind boggling. This is just one example of many that Bitcoin allows for, and those that realize such possibilities are working hard to make them come true, earning real money in the process (as much as $6,000 a day, or $2.3mil a year). The only thing SA has contributed was to willfully stay ignorant of basic finance and economics and make fun of those involved with bitcoinOther than that, all they are able to do is stare at the system without understanding it, or being able to figure out how to make anything out of it. As they have with SecondLife, or any other fandom or technology.

All this makes me think that SA goons have absolutely no imagination or drive. On the contrary, the group seems to be based around making fun of anyone who shows any sort of imagination, or attempts something out of the ordinary. They are like a pot of crabs, grabbing and dragging anyone who dares try to escape and achieve something back down with them. The group has no accomplishments to its name, other than being a nuisance to everyone else, and providing a circle-jerk of entertainment to its members in the style of bullying people they don't even want to understand. Any discovery of scammers or bad people in other communities is at most a purely accidental result of them being so eager to try to attack anything and anyone. This of course suggests that the SA group consists primarily of losers, who lack any initiative, imagination, or drive, and who's actions only suggest that they are jealous of those who do (which is perfectly exemplified by their whining about how Bitcoin is unfair, benefits early adopters, and their insistence on the belief that everyone involved with it is a selfish idiot who's only philosophy is "F*** you, got mine."). And judging by the few people I know in that group, including even my ex, that seems to be completely true.

My biggest pet peeve is ignorance; especially willful ignorance. Racists, religious extremists, jingoists, and ludites who believe they are right, and everyone else is an idiot, who are afraid of anything they don't understand, and actively try to avoid understanding or learning new ideas. SA is in that group, and that's why I hate them.

Yeah, one of the first things I found when looking at Bitcoin was a thread by the SomethingAwful community attacking it, I don't really pay attention to those kind of people because their arguments are usually either flawed/incorrect statements/outright bullshit, people like this take advantage of the way that technology works to attack others without getting any response back. It's a bit like when you have youtube video posters who say something completely outrageous and stupid but disable the comments because they know they'll get called out on their bullshit.

I wouldn't bother to get all angry about it, I used to think there was something off about people who drew that sort of stuff but I'm honestly a lot more open minded now lol it's peoples choice whether they want to do that sort of thing and if you have people dumb enough to actually go out there, search for it and then rant about it that's just there problem and no one else. If it's any comfort to you one thing I've learned about douchebags like SomethingAwful is that they always hang out in their own little club, you'll never see them make any other friends because they can't so they stick together and pick on smaller groups or single people to inflate their egos, everyone will always hate people like that.

I dream of a day when I can block an entire I.P address from my browser so I never have to stumble on that kind of bullshit from a person again.

something about misery loves comany...

It's a community of egomaniacs.

Sounds like the name fits the site. I heard you can't even talk about ponies there.

nope and their constantly ripping Jay a new one over the thing with him and Matt(Rassah should know who I'm talking about).

Relieved, actually. No more than I am upset with the KKK or Focus on the Family. Was just glad to figure out what it was exactly that made me dislike that bunch so much.
Thanks for all the attention though  ;D

Honestly the epitome of tl;dr & 'u mad'

Who generalizes the generalizers?

I'm still looking for somebody to buy me a Account Registration Certificate for one Bitcoin.

Please, I know you'll read it :)

Who hates the haters?

Well, Something Awful does actually have a huge creative side, but... they seem to do this thing where they get so obsessed with some group or website that a lot of the members just collectively lose touch with reality. They don't just do that with furries or Second Life or Bitcoins either - I'm catching up with the Awful Kickstarter thread, and a whole bunch of people spent pages trying to argue that Penny Arcade's Kickstarter somehow violated the site's rules, even though it was exactly the kind of thing Kickstarter was created to fund, just because they hated Penny Arcade so much. They're also chronically and totally unable to grasp the fact that TV Tropes has always been really popular with feminists, because they've collectively decided it must be a bunch of misogynistic male geeks with Aspergers, and that's lead to much weirdness and cognitive dissonance whenever their perspective collides with external reality (http://www.themarysue.com/tv-tropes-rape-articles/).

Actually, the Bitcoin thread is mostly relatively reasonable, the odd weird brainfart aside. (Apparently if you install the Bitcoin client it starts using your CPU to mine Bitcoins automatically, and building and launching satellites is impossible without a billion dollar budget. This no doubt comes as news to the people who actually develop the Bitcoin client and to the amateur radio groups and schools who've built microsats and put them in orbit, respectively.)

Just as in a city, there are places on the internet that respectable people don't go. SA is one of those places.

I have to admit curiosity about that table, though.

The coffee table meme started with I.

Each and every time I've brought it up, it's only for humor purposes at Rassah's expense. Nothing more, and definitely nothing implied.

Taxing my memory, the way the whole thing started is that Rassah mentions his table, somebody makes a comment, then another, along with I (I think), then Rassah asks (states) why so much interest in my coffee table (paraphrased). It was at this point that I took the discussion to the nth degree, always continuing the dialog when some conversation detected such.

My true feelings about Rassah is that I fully trust him. I also believe that if between us we ever had a disagreement on some subject, it can be resolved via a dialog, or simply we agree to disagree and carry on.

~Bruno K~

And here I was thinking Rassah digged ass holes and after all he hates them...
That should teach me not to judge a person based on their cofee table!

j/k :P

Now I wonder about the coffee table  :D

Yeah. Almost afraid to ask... Pics?

Or at least a detailed description?

Well.

Not my cup of coffee, but I might like if it were gender switched. Or at least not excited to see me. To each his own.

..... $300 for what is essentially a hentai drawing? People can draw whatever they like but as an artist even I have a hard time justifying that price, I look at paintings like the mona lisa etc. with their price tag like this:


It's how much for the original? O_O   <


If my art ever reaches those prices somehow feel free to burn it since I'll probably have put it on the internet anyway I think high priced artwork is a bit of a ponzi scheme.

This is really creepy. Do anyone know if this concept is used in fiction yet? It is an intriguing train of thought.

Yup: Daemon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(technothriller_series)).

Thanks, myrkul. They are on my wish list.

If it's just to cover the cost I can understand but then I end up asking "Who the hell wants a hentai picture that big being displayed for everyone to see in their house?" LOL :D

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=20203

Like I said, to each his own. The only thing that differentiates it, in my mind, from "David," is the erection.

Yeah to each their own, but let's put it this way, I enjoy lesbian BDSM but that doesn't mean I'm going to spend over $1000 to have a gigantic picture of two women doing it plastered over my wall..... Well I might do it if I knew some deeply religious people were going to visit but that's another story :D

It's not porn. It's art. Maybe not in the best taste (as evinced by the fact that he hides the erection with a remote - Is it one of those big multi-function remotes, btw, or a dinky little A/C unit remote? Actually, forget I asked.;) ), but it's art. If it were a picture of a sexual act, then yes, maybe you'd have a point. But it's not. Just a dude ready for sexual activity... like we all are, first thing in the morning. A candid portrait, if you will.


Sorry, Rassah, to have dragged this out into the open again.

lol! :D

Edit: Also, have the mods disabled smilies entirely from the board?

No, I suspect that's a setting on your end. I see 'em just fine.

The erection is actually part of a joke in the picture. The content is a play on words, referencing morning coffee as a pick-me-up sorta thing (except having both, coffee and wood). And the art is damn good. If it was a really well drawn anime pic (hentai), and if I was into such a thing, I probably would've displayed that, instead. I've definitely come across people with such as their computer backgrounds. As for displaying it publicly, as mentioned, it's mostly covered, plus being able to do that is a major benefit of not living with my parents (we own our house), and being in a relationship with someone who is attracted to the same things I am.
I'm sure if all girls out there were into lesbian porn as well, guys with girlfriends/wives would decorate their homes with it too  ;D

As an example of what I mean, remember that judge who was caught on camera beating his daughter a while ago? She is/was an SA member. Her father apparently just got reinstated and you can find the SA discussion of it here (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3516419). Well, I say that, but the thread immediately got derailed into talking about how she and her lawyer are weirdo furry freaks and she obviously deserved it. Once goons spy one of their favourite obsessions they forget everything else... humanity, common decency, you name it.

With due respect, there were plenty of people saying the opposite - that, yes, shoe seems pretty messed up and none of the players in the drama are particularly likeable but no matter what she did not deserve those beatings.  The scariest people of all in that thread were the ones saying "well, it's Texas and beating your kid is legal there, so what's the big deal", as well as the "one mistake shouldn't ruin someone's career" chorus.

In the original thread, the reason why people were telling her to delete the furry stuff and the bestiality-related stuff was because if the media got hold of it she would lose a lot of public sympathy and her father would use it to portray her as crazy.  It wasn't - for the most part - "ewww, furries" (an attitude which definitely does exist on SA, for reasons I don't totally understand) in that particular instance.  She made some terrible judgements in how she handled the attention she got at that time and people were trying very hard to stop her from digging herself into an ever-deepening hole.  Goons being goons, they weren't happy when she ignored that advice and started pissing in the well.

She is actively disliked by many now, mostly due to the racist comments and the bestiality stuff (which she now claims was trolling but if that's the case she was trolling a lot of places).  That doesn't - and never should - excuse or in any way be used justify the beatings she received as a teenager. 

She's started a new thread on reddit and it will be interesting to see whether that deteriorates in the same way the reddit threads did last year.  Hillary and her mother are seeking donations to establish a foundation for abuse victims.

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/11telw/in_the_wake_of_domestic_abuser_judge_william/

I think it has become my duty in life to make morons like these look like the morons they are to everyone.

SomethingAwful is a ponzi and what the Hell is this.

I find the Bitcoin beatings at SomethingAwful, FatWallet and the like to be amusing, and a waste of time to take seriously or debate. Those of us who understand Bitcoin and the harbinger of radical change that it is, know that the peanut gallery at those sites is at least short-sighted.

As has been said here before, Bitcoin is following the classic Gandhi sequence, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Right now, seems like we are in the transition from laughing to fighting, and the ignore stage has long since passed.

The silver lining in the SomethingAwful et al groups is also the relatively low fiat/Btc rate.

Imagine what it would be if they took Btc seriously.

So, enjoy their ridicule, because chances are that Bitcoin or its successors will make the doubters and hecklers reconsider or at least stop laughing...   

I've spent the last week reading through the BitCoin thread over at SA, and I hate to say it, but they've called it every time an "investment" turned out to be a scam and for the most part they are quite right about a lot of the BCT community. It's so insular here that a lot of people either can't, or don't want to see it. I feel like a lot of ridicule stems from people not listening to them.

The majority of their threads revolve around this community and not BitCoin itself. It's clear that there's money to be had in BitCoin, and quite a few SA members have made quite a chunk of change off it. However, they got into it very early.

You might want to open your mind a little bit and learn to take constructive criticism. A lot of the so called "trolls" are actually rather helpful. Look at that one guy who has put a ton of effort into Dank's Hookah Lounge and Bank threads, trying to teach him basics of running a business. It's not their fault Dank won't listen. That's a lesson that should apply to everyone here.

Just my BTC0.2!

-Zoey

A lot of the investments clearly are scams, I played EVE Online for a bit so I can see them a mile off :D the thing these people don't realise is, there's constructive criticism and then there's just being a cunt which I've been on the receiving end of myself and it was one of those things where I realised I'm actually giving myself far better critique than some people ever could.


Good critique Example:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m602/Lethn/Aire2copy5CORRECTIONS.jpg


Anything less than this is just pathetic trolling in my view and it amazes me that these people have the time to troll other people for hours on end and yet they can't even provide basic fucking critique on what is technically wrong with something. I've seen the hate on Bitcoin and very little goes into the detail of why it's bad and the best the government bodies have been able to come up with is because it 'could' be used by criminals. Believe it or not, I do actually like criticism but unless you're going to go into the technical aspects of why something is bad then I'm going to call you out on your bullshit.

That's because they call every investment a scam.  They were (are) wrong about Dank Bank as well.

Are you talking about monster ant?  Why would I thank someone who calls you a fucking sponge every other sentence?  Another thing that I tried to make clear, I do listen to people's feedback, I just have little respect for people full of hate.

:D

Sorry hon, Dank Bank kind of is a Ponzi... I also read your whole Hookah thread and Monster-Ant started off respectful but it degraded quickly because of how poorly you took criticism.


Actually, if you read the thread on SA they go into great detail about what's wrong with the investments and certain aspects of BitCoin in general. There appears to be quite a few people who are MBAs, finance majors, bankers and brokers over there. Haven taken quite a few finance courses in college it's all pretty sound advice. I'd also like to point out what they're doing isn't really trolling. Making fun of somebody and pointing out obvious flaws in people's logic isn't trolling. I'm sure a lot of them jump on the bandwagon in making fun without quite knowing what's going on, but tons of people do that here as well, in this very thread in fact.

I'm not trying to defend them, but you really should know what you're talking about before you blast somebody. Plus, it seems they do a lot of good for the internet; they're involved in charities, they've been the spearhead in taking down Reddit's pedo section, hell, one of their members was killed in that attack on the consulate in Libya and they raised over $50k for his family.

On the flip side there is quite a bit of dumb and just plain mean stuff that goes on over there. The way they grief people in online games is a good example.

As for the furry issue, I'd have to say I agree with the stance that's its disgusting and everyone involved needs psychological help. In my time on the internet, I've seen a lot of furries equate their fetish with being gay, which... Yeah, just no. You weren't born that way. It's something you picked up through environmental means and use it to be a unique special snowflake. The fact that this wasn't a thing before the internet is very telling. Basically, they start hanging around on boards and chatrooms with more of their kind, which is just a huge echo chamber. This makes them believe that what they're doing is normal and alright.

Then you get to the point where you have an anthropomorphic fox with a huge erection on your coffee table and when someone says, "Ew gross!" they scream that they're being persecuted because someone rightfully made fun of them.

Here's a tip: If cartoon animals turn you on, you're fucked up in the head and should seek help.

I realize I'm being aggressive here, but I'm tired of people placating made up issues when there's real shit in the real world that we need to deal with. Like Gay Rights and Women's Rights.

-Zoey

Just to clarify, Dank Bank does not operate like a ponzi.  I use each investment for whatever I feel is best, enough to make a profit at the end of their investment term.

Crtisizm is one thing, criticizing people is another.  Not that I care a bit what Monster thinks, but I'm not going to listen to someone who firmly believes I'm incompetent at everything and my best bet in life would be to join the military.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not going to take advice from someone who thinks helping kill people is a more suitable career over starting a hookah bar.

There are a lot of people out there who are more than capable of making judgements for themselves about which investments are a stupid idea or not, usually the people who fall for these cons are relatively small in number but they noise they make about it make it seem like it's a huge deal, if you ever want to know how to deal with scams etc. you should probably play EVE Online for a bit, it will take you ten minutes looking at the market places etc. carefully to realise who are the scammers and who are the honest traders.


Well with the it's 'wrong' to have that sort of fetish situation there are people who argue that it's morally wrong to be gay yet there are people out there who think it's perfectly normal and that number is growing, seriously why don't you go and read back your post? You just claimed it's somehow right to go ahead and make fun of people yet you wonder why people get so pissed off about it? As far as I'm concerned as long as they aren't hurting anybody they have every right to do what they want, if you find it abnormal then don't bother them, it is actually pretty simple to deal with, no one is exactly forcing you to deal with this yet you've decided to come on this thread specifically to have a bitch fest about it and target the people you don't like.

Also putting faith in the opinion of people who majored in finance, who are bankers and brokers is the most laughable thing I've ever heard of since a lot of them will almost certainly be Neo-Keynesians and Keynesian economics seems to me to be more of a religion than anything involving logic, mathematics or even common sense so I'm afraid you're going to get mocked for that one.

All the talk... please, I'd finally want to see a picture of said coffee table.

lmao ElectricMucus :D

https://i.imgur.com/UQqrY.jpg

thanks but,
I expected something which might be considered cute, disappointed. That's just creepy.

Hon, this right here is what's wrong with the majority of the BitCoin community. They think they know better than the professionals. They don't. This is exactly why all the BitCoin exchanges fail. This is why people get sucked into so many scams. The lay-man really doesn't know best. BitCoinTalk is an absolute textbook example of the Dunning-Kreuger effect.

-Zoey

I'm curious about why you find the image "creepy".  I don't find the image appealing at all, but I don't find it intrinsically creepy either.  There's a fair bit of more conventional art around which is disturbing but which doesn't ping people's "creepy" meter either (in fact there's quite a few disturbing images that I'd regard as good art and be happy to display).

Maybe something about it's dimensions, and if the same thing would be something hanging on the wall I'd be less concerned.
I mean there is enough space on it for a person to lay down on it...
Then when you say coffee table I expected something small, maybe round with maybe enough space for two or thee persons to sit at.

Because you just *know* he's masturbated to it. I imagine that table would glow like New York City at night if you hit it with a black light.

-Zoey

Well, that's about what I expected when I read "coffee table," but yeah. Good artwork, but I'd say either it needs to be displayed in a more appropriate place, or he should not be so "proud."  Pants would be nice. I wouldn't call it "creepy," but as I said before, not my style. That said, not my house, not my say. Enjoy, Rassah... at least you always remember where you put the remote.

I haven't fallen for scams so I think I do know better than these professionals  ::) yes, Bitcoin exchanges fail, yes, there are ponzi and investment schemes, however that isn't to do with Bitcoin, that's just humanity at work, you think you don't have to deal with scam artists in other currencies? Of course you do in fact some of these people you lot seem to blindly put your faith in have been involved in some scams bigger than anything people in the Bitcoin community have come up with so far and they've been at it for longer.

The problem here is not that you're criticizing Bitcoin but its the way that the problems you're all describing have nothing to do with the currency itself but the people and that's a fact, you lot need to learn how to take criticism yourself really, if scams are all that Bitcoin critics can come up with as a problem with the currency then it's probably going to do pretty damn well compared to all the other fiat currencies.

At which point the thread turned into a massive flamewar and got locked, yeah. Still, SA has improved a lot over the years. Notice all the (:regd04:) people complaining about how they can't even mock furries anymore and how the forum's gone downhill? From what I can remember they're not kidding about how things used to be.

In fact, as best as I can tell this new community divide is the reason they don't have furry threads anymore. The last one I saw on there imploded after some people called gay furries "faggots" and one of the gay forum members objected. He got piled on and someone paid to change his forum title to "I am a faggot" in massive red text. Things went downhill pretty quickly from there. (Interestingly, title changes have to be approved by the admins and the other moderators seemed scared to change it back.) Some people in the first Bitcoin thread seemed to be worried about that turning into a furry thread and getting locked too.

Yeaaaaah... bit more to it than that. A lot (all?) of the anti-furry stuff out there uses language that'd be obviously homophobic in any other context, aims it at a group that is famously largely gay, and justifies this by arguing that they're not really gay, they're just a bunch of fat weirdo freaks who just turn to other guys because no women would sleep with them and who are appropriating gay rights to stop people giving their freaky fetish stuff a well-deserved mocking. (I honestly cannot grasp why anyone would think that argument's a good idea, but people apparently do.) A lot of the supposed examples of furries equating their fetish to being gay actually have more to do with them objecting to that.

In fact, you know the well-known example of furries equating their fetish with being gay, that drawing of a fox crying in front of a rainbow flag? The one that SA has an emoticon of which they use to mock furries? I literally only found this out by accident a few months ago, but it's actually nothing of the sort (http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Standing_Proud). It's part of a statement by an actual gay guy who also happens to be a furry about the dire state of gay rights in the US in 2004 and how this affects him; "fursecution" didn't even enter into it until SA went herpderp, furries can't possibly care about gay rights, let's mock him for it.

That actually describes what I see a lot of this hate as :P :D

haters gon hate lol. just chill and move to WA or CO

Why differentiate between flavors of sexual deviations from the heterosexual "norm"?  Either you are committed to tolerance and accept all sexual preferences of others (barring rape, pedophilia etc.) or you're a hypocrite that just moves the goal posts on tolerance to match societal acceptance.

Logically I understand there is nothing cosmically wrong with being gay (or wanting to have sex with animals or dead bodies or whatever).  I don't oppose their existence or rights.

From my personal and subjective perspective I find it all disgusting to imagine and don't want to be involved with it or watch it or anything else.  This is most likely at least partially due to the environment I grew up in.  Maybe they can't change their desires, much as I can't help being repulsed by it.

I see no logical standing to arbitrarily be accepting of one variation in sexual desires and not another.  The only difference being in cases where one partner is non-consenting.

So if you're not personally inclined to suck a dick or hump a dog why treat one as acceptable and the other as "needing psychological help"?  How do you know that each of those impulses as well as your own aren't derived from the same sources?  We don't fully understand how much of what people feel is nature vs nurture (to the best of my knowledge, links to studies and articles on this matter are welcome), and even if we did, should it really make a difference?

In their defense, most people who consider themselves "furries" don't want to actually have sex with animals. Rather, anthropomorphic animals (like the one in the picture above) get them hot.

Personally, I blame Disney.

My main point was that it shouldn't matter.  Whether it's sex with animals or sex with cartoon animals or whatever else.  Being intolerant of anything you don't personally understand is logical to a certain point.  You hate what you don't understand, it's ignorant and I don't agree with the standpoint but it makes some kind of sense.  From my perspective furries not wanting to have sex with animals but rather being turned on by cartoon animals is sort of the same difference.  Both motivations seem odd to me, but if I'm willing to accept one I'd have to being willing to accept the other, otherwise risk being a hypocrite.

You're right, I was just correcting an informational error. There's morally no difference between homosexuality and being a furry. Anything done between consenting adults (including dressing up as racoons) is fine by me. On the other hand, having sex with animals or corpses... if it can't consent, it's rape.

Is having sex with the cushion on your couch rape?  It can't consent.  As far as animals, I'd think you'd be able to tell if they were receptive or not.  I could have sex with a girl that spoke no English and tell whether I was raping her or not.

Sexual assault, bestiality and necrophilia are all examples of sexual behaviour with non-consenting parties.  "Consent" isn't always a bright line, either, and I think that's one of the things which disturbs people about some paraphilias - there can be enormous risk of harm if the parties involved aren't all mentally healthy or if the power dynamics are distorted.  In fact, DSM-V is trying to address this essential difference between people whose non-normative sexual behaviour is psychopathological (ie causes harm, impairment or distress) and those in which it's just a "quirk".

A lot of paraphilias have "communities" and those communities attract extremely disturbed as well as well-balanced individuals.  It's the extremely disturbed ones that you tend to hear about.  Some are predators right from the outset and some seem to progressively become more and more immersed in satisfying their particular kink until whatever has previously kept them grounded breaks down.  It's those individuals who operate at the extreme that you tend to hear about.

At an intellectual level, I think many people are aware that "if you can imagine it, someone is masturbating to it".  There are certainly some people who think "if it doesn't turn me on then it shouldn't turn anyone on", but I think that many people's reactions to the paraphilia's of others are a bit more complex than that.  

What he said.

A dead body is an object not a "party".  If you want to condemn the behavior you'll have to find a better justification than rape.

I think you'd be hard pressed to make a convincing argument that someone who had sex with their pet was endangering their mental health and in that relationship the power dynamics are not an issue.  Obviously if the sex physically harmed the animal then there might be a case for criminality.  Then again I also think it's highly illogical that a meat eating society throws people in jail for physically abusing an animal.  I can facilitate the deaths of hundreds or thousands of animals by eating meat regularly (and I do), but kick a dog once and I can go to jail, what a joke.

As for sexual assault and pedophilia I completely agree.

but...
http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s359/Keioko10/1225548122110.jpg

haha

Whether you think it's rational or not, our society and many other have a thing about treating dead bodies with "respect" and necrophilia is a transgression of that taboo.  Many people are disturbed by anything they perceive as disrespectful being done to a corpse and it's going to cause them mental anguish if they find out that the corpse of a loved one has been "mistreated" in any way. 

Hell, many people refuse to allow autopsies to be conducted on corpses and won't donate organs - even when the decided clearly indicated that they wanted to be a donor - because they regard even dead human bodies as being somehow "sacred".  People generally regard murdering someone and mutilating their corpse as somehow being "worse" than simply killing them.  Society has a thing about how dead bodies should be treated.

There's clearly no harm being done to the corpse itself, but I don't think that the average person is going to react well to learning that someone fucked the corpse of their loved one - whether you believe that's rational or not is irrelevant, it's internally consistent if people hold the viewpoint that dead bodies should be treated with respect.

Yes my whole point was that this is irrational and illogical thinking, and that by being tolerant of gays but not other sexual orientations you are merely conforming to what society accepts rather than being a logical and critical thinker or a truly tolerant person.  I find it ridiculous that so many "accept" gays and pat themselves on the back for how tolerant and progressive they are when really they are just conforming their opinions based on whats currently accepted regardless of how hypocritical or illogical the line of thinking is.

People now think about people that have sex with dead bodies similarly to the way people used to feel about gays.  We haven't become a nation of tolerance, we've just moved the goal posts and declared victory.

Changing the public perception of necrophilia will require more drastic change than the acceptance of gays, or even furries. You'd need to get everyone to see a corpse as an object rather than their dear Aunt Sally. You'd be going against not just centuries, but all of human history. We've been burying the dead to keep just this sort of thing from happening - desecration of the corpse - since we've been "us."

I don't disagree.  This doesn't refute the point I was making at all though.

It took drastic change for the acceptance of gays, before the change was made it would be inaccurate for someone to claim tolerance and hate gays, regardless of how much change was needed for the general populace to become accepting.  People that owned slaves probably didn't think they were prejudiced, this had no bearing on what the truth was though.

The type of thinking that led to arguments made by you and repentance is exactly why it took centuries (Millennia? more?) for acceptance of gays.  If we don't give a shit about truly being tolerant then that's fine (I happen to have a sexual preference that is very common and therefore don't personally benefit from tolerance of more exotic sexual orientations, if anything it hurts me in the sense that Will & Grace aired on TV at one point and I inadvertently watched occasional commercials of it etc.), let's just not pretend that people who accept gays are so much more enlightened since they are really just a different shade of gray from the ignorant bigots of say the KKK.

To be fair though from a practical standpoint you can say they (those accepting of gays) are tolerant of the vast majority by percent of total population if not a by a majority of sexual orientations.  Although that is basically saying it's OK to be intolerant of a people as long as the population of those people is small.

If you want to be selectively tolerant don't worry you are part of the majority.  Just be honest with yourself about your beliefs and realize you don't have a reasonable logical standing to support them.

It's actually not my intention to be offensive and I don't really hate people that are selectively tolerant since that is vast majority of the people in the world we live in.  Mostly I find this argument intellectually interesting, I've had it many times with friends.

Nope. Lots of cultures have previously accepted gays. (You could even stretch things and call the Egyptians furries.) None have ever been OK with desecrating the dead.

Not to mention that a sexual orientation and a paraphilia are not the same thing.  Perhaps you believe that because gay people were otherised in recent times that they were always persecuted throughout the whole of recorded history.  Historically, such persecution has been episodic and often correlated with times of religious power and oppression of sexuality in general.  The emergence of psychology as a field also created oppressive attitudes towards human sexuality for a very long time, with an increasing focus on "curing" what were regarded as sexual aberrations.  The "diseasing" of homosexuality (a term which was only coined in the late 19th century) helped entrench negative attitudes towards same-sex attraction.  It was no longer regarded as a chosen path but as an illness to be prevented if at all possible (and a lot of negative attitudes towards masturbation stem from the time when psychology believed that "excessive" masturbation would bring out "latent" homosexual tendencies) and to be "cured" if it couldn't be prevented.

We cannot now imagine a return to times when sexuality is oppressed - and yet throughout history that has happened time and time again.

You people are weird  :P

Also, extreme homophobes often explain why gays are disgusting by describing the sexual acts they believe gays are into; things like drinking piss, smearing and eating shit, and other EXTREMELY nasty crap that normal gays can't even come up with, let alone find appealing. They find all those sex acts just as nasty. SA's reaction to furry fandom really reminds me of that: no, vast majority of furries do NOT want to have sex with animals (they are dirty and disgusting), and don't masturbate to Disney characters or coffee tables. It's really no different at all from anime fans liking pictures of cute, sexy anime girls/boys. Except it's cute, sexy anthropomorphic girls/boys. There's really nothing more to it, just as there's nothing more to being gay than just liking a certain sex, or to being human than just liking a certain body type (skinny/ full/ blonde/ redhead, etc.)
But some people really need to give themselves reasons for feeling justified about why they find something weird or wish to hate something/someone, so they come up with all these nasty fantasies to make themselves feel better. They're still assholes for doing it, though. And the SA bunch seems especially justified at coming up with these fantasies, and being assholes about them. No, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of bitcoiners didn't get involved with any scams. No, they are not computer illiterate idiots who don't understand hardware and could burn their house down from mining. No, they are not financially illiterate to the point where they don't understand that mining loses them money (my rig makes $90/month, and costs $45/month in electricity). And a lot us here also have degrees and MBAs in finance, economics, and whatever. Just because SA people's Keynesian ideals don't agree with the Austrian ideals of this group doesn't mean that one group is haha-wrong. Both are *methods* which work based on historically proven rules. The argument is mostly on what the outcome will be. SA isn't any more correct than Bitcoiners in their guesses about the outcome, but at least bitcoiners are willing to debate, discuss, and learn, while SA is too much of a circle-jerk.

I Furone, Understand. Everybody instatly goes "BEASTIALITY LOVING ANIMAL FUCKING PEDOFILES!!" When they see a Furry, Thus, I have a Pony icon.

Love and tolerate, They will hate and dissasociate.
It's simple really, Any True Brony is just not going to give up an "argument" Because for them its a debate, Were not angry, Or annoyed that you hate us for liking things like MLP, Or anthro animals.
Were just simply going to debate why we like it, and why you dont.
We'll be happy, Changing your mind, While you toil in your own soil, Trying to say Anything to make us angry.

Why? Are you jealous?
Do you not want to "hop on the boat" or "join the herd" Simply because others got there first? Others that you may or maynot dislike?
Really people, Spouting anger at about pretty much anything that wont impact your life, is just plain Stupid.

Heckle a Furry? Get a hug. Hit the furry? He shakes it off, Do it again and they will dogpile you to the ground and have you arrested for assualt.
Heckle a Brony? Get a rebuttle, Hit the brony? he's going to leave and never see you again. Police call in ten seconds flat.
Cant hit them because they are across the internet? Block them you idiot. "Theres too many" Then ignore them! "Dude i told you theres too many"

Well shucks buddy, Your SOL and your just going to have to chalk it up that theres another thing on the planet that you dont like.
Like eating babies Or harvesting organs. Im sorry was that a Horrible comparison? How about this one.

Like seeing two dogs fucking in the park, Or like seeing a horse give birth.
Its a freaking part of life.

No one really cares what other people are into, its just the people who advertise their fetishes that get called out and made fun of

Well, yeah, but if you're a gay furry hentacle freak, how else are you going to find another dude to dress up as an octopus and fuck? ;)

Live and let live, man. As long as both (all? ;D) parties are willing, IDGAF what you're putting where, or how you're dressed.

well that's how people should be, but not everyone is going to be accepting of stuff

Yes, there's a word for those people who are not: "asshole."

I actually get a fair amount of traffic from SA. I get the feeling they're the reason I had to replace my comment system with something that can better handle floods of bullshit.

Well, that's kind of the problem. Furry fandom isn't a fetish, just an interest in a certain art style, which also includes a sexual subset (just as there is a sexual subset in anime fandom, and even star trek fandom, from what I've heard), and furry fans tend to stick to their close-knit groups, having their own conventions and meeting, and welcoming anyone else who wishes to join, but otherwise never proselytizing and sticking to their group. Yet some other people really go out of their way to look for "advertisements" and imagine what kind of horrible fetishes someone may be into whenever they see a furry avatar or icon. You know, kinda like some people imagine nasty sex acts whenever they see two guys holding hands.

I put ? marks after millenia and more for that reason.  I'm fine accepting centuries here if you think that fits best. 

The best I can tell from an objective standpoint there is no difference between sexual arousal towards opposite sex, same sex or dead bodies other than how commonly they occur (would be interested to hear about scientific awareness that refutes this, labeling something different because it occurs more rarely doesn't count).

Orientation, paraphilia, use whatever terms you want but it doesn't have much bearing on the argument.  Just because DSM-X invents a new word for something doesn't make it something separate in the context of our discussion.


Interesting comment.  From my perspective sex with men, drinking piss, eating shit are all part of the same "nasty" category.  I'm personally repulsed by the thought of any one of those sufficiently that I couldn't tell you which one I think would be more unpleasant than an another.

My options are:
-Tolerance for people that are drawn to do things I personally and subjectively find nasty, in which case I accept people with the desire for any of the above mentioned behavior.
-Psuedo-tolerance based on a sliding scale of public opinion and commonality.  A stance not ground in objective rational logic but rather some measure of hypocrisy and/or cognitive dissonance.
-Bigotry where I only accept behavior I personally understand and feel comfortable with.

If some homophobe or bigot or whatever wanted to hate gays because he thought they were nasty why would he have to fantasize about other nasty behavior?  Doesn't really make much sense to me.  If he was so extremely homophobic wouldn't the act of sex with another man be nasty enough to fuel his ignorant hate?

If someone wants to eat shit, hump dudes, or have sparing missionary with the opposite sex in their own home that is their business and not the whole measure of the person.  I'd being willing to bet I am friends with at least one person that does something behind closed doors that I would find absolutely disgusting.  As long what they do doesn't negatively affect me I shouldn't really care.

The last few comments made me realize something...

Fox News has it all wrong. Black Panthers with a billy club aren't intimidating. If you want elderly white Christians to stay away from voting booths, have men dress up as gay octopuses with dick in hand. Instead of Democrats being "the Black party," now they're the "gay octopus party." I seriously doubt Democrats will see higher voter turnout when members must defend gay octopus voter intimidation. The perfect false flag... - what were we talking about?

BTW, a message to SA. All those horse pics and framed images you found? Congrats. They're not mine. The famous table is. All that other stuff isn't. None of my art is framed or on any walls. And I don't even like horses. They're nasty dirty things. So, yay for looking for crap, finding stuff not associated with me, and attempting to use it to discredit me. Not that I care much, but just wanted to let you know you were wrong, and, pitifully, were forced to look at stuff you find repulsive for no reason.
Cary on.

I guess they just like horse pictures?

Not surprised really. People tend to ridicule what they fear to discover (or allow to be discovered) in themselves.

I just think it's funny that they went through the trouble of finding something they find uncomfortable, when it's totally unrelated and they really didn't need to put themselves through that.  I wonder if they all look at goatsee pictures every morning just to get themselves pumped up for a day of trolling?

"pumped" heh.

They have as much passion as we do, We go through the waves of Bullshit to defend the look of the 'furry name'
Y'know, we dont HAVE to goto SA and make a defensive statement, But we do because we believe that what we are doing is Right.
They make aggressive statements because they feel that we (as furries) are Wrong for exsisting.

Such a shame about the stupidly simple fact that this argument is So smilliar to the "gay is bad" argument.
They dont like us for exsisting, We dont like them for disliking our exsistance.

Now really, Who wins this fight? Who started it?
IMO, Anti-furs started the flamewar, We didnt push anything onto anyone, We just stand around and defend against your inaccurate, horrific comments that get vollied at us every morning.

What do we do? Resist being stepped on.
What do they do? Verbally assault us.