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Hi, I'm sort of new to mining. From what I understood dedicated hardware (ASICs) is the way to go.

The company that will deliver first seems to be BFL.

I wanted to know a little bit more about their product before putting my money into it. Therefore I registered on their webpage (forums.butterflylabs.com) and asked whether they have a working prototype. I got a reply (not from BFL, only from another user) that they don't and that it's probably best to wait til December and see if they can deliver. I agreed and expressed by concerns.

It seems BFL does not like this kind of questions, because soon after that my account has been banned and the thread was completely deleted.

Am I in f*cking China? What's with this censorship?

LOL!!!


All hail our glorious leader, Inaba. 

Don't worry.  BFL distribution of information is handled much like in North Korea.

BFL is the presumptive front runner in the ASIC arms race because they began collecting pre-order funds months before anyone else(think 0% interest loan) with the understanding they'd ship in October. Obviously that didn't happen. They won't be shipping in November either, and their current(likely soon delayed) shipping schedule calls for early December. Shipping will now almost certainly take place after block reward halving. Also BTCFPGA has held firmly to that same shipping date(wk1 Dec) all along, and they do not have an established history of pushing back shipping dates.

They've been asked for rudely demanded a prototype by users here on bitcointalk so many times, it becomes hard to distinguish interested customers from the trolls and shills. I'm  betting it was a question that's been asked before, and their stance on it hasn't changed much since.

If I remembered right you did not trust them, and got the advice "why don't you wait ordering untill they are released early december, if you feel insecure doing it now. Won't matter much for a place in line, since you won't be in the first batch anyhow". Something like that, wasn't it?
It may be that your ip was found to be the same as that of a well known troll there? Or that someone was fed up with the next new member playing the noob asking that question for the 22th time? Just guessing.

I think Tom will ship his bASICs before BFL ships. Tom already has working chips, and is working on the board. BFL is still waiting for the chips from the fab. What if when they get the chips and assemble the first working board they find problems?

Doomsday.

Then, possibly a number of BFL employee will quit or resign, whichever comes first. (I am joking at the possibility...maybe)

the bASIC can be set back a few weeks as well if unexpected problems show up, in all cases, the board designs are not finalized yet and the firmware needs to be written, for all 4 current public ASIC projects.

In any case, some projects are far better at explaining to their customers what is the current status than BFL. And frankly after how they mishandled the introduction of their FPGA line (under performing and using more power), I'm surprised they keep marketing the 'estimates' instead of explaining they are not hard, guaranteed values. But I guess that is marketing.

Guessing ... well, that's one of the major annoyances on http://forums.butterflylabs.com/
There are so many bootlickers and wannabe BFL employes on there that it's hard to filter out accurate information in all those tons of useless comments.
So many speculations and guesswork.

I posted my question ("working prototype") hoping that a BFL official would respond - but got banned instead.

It seems the purpose of those forums is only mutual sugarcoating and backslapping - to bear with the constantly delayed delivery dates.

Welcome to China...comrade.

Agreed its all a big game of wait and see right now. Oh and who made the right bet....go with BFL, bASIC...etc

I, for one, welcome our new Chinese Overlords!

You should go back and read the thousand-count posts from when BFL first announced the FPGA based equipment. I was skeptical too back then but they have a fairly successful history now of completing orders.

What did you expect, clowns are only allowed on this board.

Wait, what does that make me?  :o

Crazyates!!!
But, have you been banned from BFL's forum too? Nooooo  :D

In no small part because of that fact that I'm never actually on there. :P

So you can't see the pictures showing there's not much to show by pictures yet?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/324-Photos-of-PCBs-cases-and-heatsinks/page4 (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/324-Photos-of-PCBs-cases-and-heatsinks/page4)

No I'm a member, so I can see all the pics. I just havn't made it a habit of frequenting there very often.

Today I got a call from Dave, BFL's new "Account Manager". I wasn't around to pick it up and will be calling him tomorrow. Does anyone have any questions for BFL aside from the generic "when"?

And has anyone else got a similar call?

Yes actually. I'd like a more refined estimate of power consumption numbers if available. Thank you for asking. :)

You and about 400 other people, Garr... 

Anyway, for the record, Bitsnpieces is Frizz23, aka CptNemo, aka about 20 other accounts on the BFL forums.  I'm sure he'll come back and say "No I'm not" - but since he is on a dynamic IP connection and he used the same IP on multiple accounts, it's highly unlikely that it was a different person.  Especially when the same type of posts are made by brand new accounts from the same IP block allocated to Frizz's ISP.  Frizz has migrated to using proxies now, but it's pretty easy to pick him out the minute he posts, since he can't conceal his writing style and odd turns of phrase that aren't very common.

So yes, Bitsnpieces was banned for having multiple accounts only to stir up trouble.

There's also a lot of information on that site as well. Unfortunately it's heavily embedded in forum threads and simple questions do seem hit a nerve.

I'm trying to get all the common, simple questions into the FAQ.  I certainly welcome any help on that front!

Inaba,

Having had to deal with Atlas over here, I totally understand your pain with trolls constantly making new accounts.

Well surely...

It's great that you guys actually have someone trying to communicate with people. Remarkably better PR than about a year ago :P

What are these calls actually supposed to accomplish though? (I do have a few chips on a Mini-Rig that need replacing, so at least the timing of the call was good :P)

Well, we are trying to reach out and improve customer service.  We are just making our way through the back log of voice mails now, but going forward, it will be a point of contact phone wise for people.  That's one area that we have basically been totally non-existent in and it's something we are trying to rectify.

Our VM backlog was... huge to say the least.

I can attest. I received a call from Dave about a voicemail from June.  It was kinda nice that they didn't just drop it.

I bet you can ship the voice-mail data to India and buy a Premium Support Package. I hear their PR is top-notch  :)

As long as you don't touch the Slurpee machine.

I think its funny you get mad at all the trolls spamming these forums. How it is any different from you spamming the forums with all your advertisements? Haven't you in a way brought this on yourselves?

This guy would be perfect for the job Inaba,he handles many different companies calls  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQRxwdFJOvg

I, for one, welcome our new slurpee machine overlords.

Seriously, good work playing catch up guys. That's at least something.

I hardly think five months to return a phone call is praise worthy. That's some bad business mojo.

eventually...

LOL ... sounds like Colin Powell and his story about weapons of mass destruction.

You guys at BFL seem to have a lot of spare time. For conspiracy theories. And censorship.

Why don't you use your time more productive and solder some PCB's and start shipping your long overdue mining equipment?

Because then what would you have to complain about, Frizz23?

I received a very nice phone call from BFL asking if I had all my questions answered from a previous question I had left for them - I told them yes and was looking forward to the new ASICS shipping - I am quite satisfied with the renewed and continuous effort being made by BFL to be responsive

I think this thread should be renamed to "BFL makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside"

Or "BFL gots my cash"

But it keeps the cash warm and fuzzy.  :D

Or "Frizz32's 7th attempt of BFL bashing with a bogus account on bitcointalk.org".

Please tell me all you asshamsters with "60 GH/s BFL Single SC - Pre-Order Yours Today!" signatures are only Inaba sock puppets. Because if not I would seriously lose my faith in mankind.

I simply refuse to believe that actual people can be so embarrassingly devoted to vaporware like for example SLok or Lab_Rat.

I don't know about puppets, but I'm trying to win a little single. $650 for free is good enough for me. Just sayin'

I am Inaba & approve this message  ;D

Wait, if you're Inaba... who am I?  Crap!

You are us & we are you,but they are not them & will never be us  :o

Every seend the movie Identity? As much as I would love to hate John Cusack, it really is a great movie.

I simply refused to believe that actual people could be so embarrassingly devoted to trolling just because they can't afford even one jalapeno, but then Frizz32 appeared.

I guess some people just don't have anything better to do?
I've said it before... Cognitive Dissonance aka "sour grapes".

 ::)

That is your job and BFL pays you to do it, not the participants of this community.

If you wish help, get your place in the queue:

If you don't want to help, then don't. 

Your attitude is exactly what we do not want at the BFL forums, so by all means, don't stop by.

I knew it!! Inaba created a bunch of sock puppet accounts in order to win the BFL contest that he is running. Ingenious!

I'm certainly no sock puppet...Though if I was, they'd be Bitcoin Alpaca Socks!

Lol   me too

Chances of winning a Little Single: minimal
Chances of getting it delivered: zero

Willing to take that chance. Now I'm gonna go take a shit...and think about what you said.

Frizz, why do you gotta be such a hater?  You don't see us telling you how stupid you are for mining the with your 386 hooked up to a hamster wheel.  

Chances of Frizz wasting my time reading his posts in the future: minimal
Chances of me not putting him on ignore: zero

Hey Frizz,Thanks for venting here instead of at home/work & taking your aggression out on your family or fellow employee's  ;D

From this day forward, I will no longer be critical of BFL or their staff unless they fail to produce.

Here's my olive branch: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124314.msg1335969#msg1335969

~Bruno K.~

I just hate asshamsters that constantly try to convince themselves and everyone else that BFL will keep their promise and deliver beginning of October end of October beginning of November end of November start of December - and give everyone a roasting that has at least a little bit of common sense and distrust BFL.

Not ready to hate on umm...asshamsters?, but it does seem rather remarkable that so many would give any credibility to BFL's routinely pushed back release dates. These should come with a disclaimer like: "For entertainment value only", as plainly nothing can be planned around them.

:D

But the *real* disclaimer should be: "BFL does this pre-order and false promises thing to keep people from giving their money to Tom (bASIC)".

Well if bASIC ships before BFL gets their ASIC products out the door, there are likely to be a whole mess of cancelled orders...orders that will end up going somewhere.

Right, common sense, fake complaints and fake orders by fake people, you are your own asshamster. BFL has lost credibility on giving right delivery dates, your credibility is non-existant, your behavior psychopathic.

What is your motivation for defending BFL so much? Do they pay you? If not - I seriously don't understand you. Or Lab_Rat. Or ...

your dreaming if you think bfl will have the liquidity to do such a thing if that were to happen

I believe that people have been getting refunded for their orders that have requested it...

I am sure BFL can handle the occasional refund. But what happens if everyone want's out at the same time (e.g. Tom/bASIC starts delivery before BFL does, or BFL delays shipments to 2013, etc.)?

For those of you old enough to remember the year 2000 here is what happens where everyone want's out at the same time: Crash

http://www.stock-market-crash.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nasdaq-bubble.gif

Wow Frizz23,you seem to have some fixation with BFL.Your last months of posts have been nothing but attack after attack on BFL.

You need to seek help dude.If you don't,we will hear about you on the news...................... ::)

My "fixation" - as you called it - started about the same time BFL broke their delivery date promise (the first time!). Do you see some connection there, Watson? ;)

My doctor told me that I had butterflies in my belfry, which caused me to flutter. The only cure was to migrate away from threads that trigger the affection, thus allowing the tinfoil antennae time to heal.

Gadzooks my man, the only true cure is More Cow Bell!

Oh waaaaa,you didn't see it coming ???  ::)

I did & won't be surprised if it happens again,pissed yes,but not surprised.I also expect bASIC to maybe have a delay also.

Avalon has already stated a delivery date of Feb thru March,as has Deepbit too,so no comp there.....yet.

So go ahead & piss in the wind some more,I find you entertaining,in a scary way  ::)

Phinnaeus Gage,you are a hoot  :D I get a REAL kick from your posts,in a good way  8)

I am not a BFL hater. I just knew they were lying about shipping dates. It was a calculated decision to be the first to suck money from
asic buyers and it worked. Past performance shows they have no problem telling fibs about when a product will be ready to ship. Now I
am not saying they are not building the actual product but they are quite shady when it comes to being honest about time lines which
was done to get the money first. Therefore I have no problem with people disliking BFL. They sorta deserve it at this point.

2013 will be the shipping year for most of the orders. I predict they will squirt out a few before 2012 just to say they shipped in 2012 but
that is about it. They will not ship the hundred and first order until Feb-march.

The effectiveness of marketing schemes that either bend truth or omit truth is based on maturity of the market. 

I don't see mining as a mature market where miners are treating mining as a business and by that fact less willing to go on faith and more willing to withhold capex until a vendor meets realistic, concrete expectations.


No single consumer will have an effect on vendor behavior.  Organization, by definition of maturity, of the mining community is necessary and sadly I don't see that happening any time soon.

Actually, that was their old target date. It has since been moved up to January 14th, 2013 with a reasonable possibility [unconfirmed] to as early as December. They just recently posted the tech they are using to build their products.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120184.msg1338015#msg1338015

BFL is infamous for lengthening their target dates.

bASIC is known for keeping their target dates.

Avalon is known for shortening thier target dates.

Typo bug = squashed. No charge bro. ;)

BFL wants nothing more than to ship their product. They know that a lot of people are waiting before ordering. You think they have a lot of orders now? Wait until they start shipping product.

I don't doubt they want to ship ASICs. I doubt their sincerity when they say they will ship on _ /_ /_ date. They're either so incompetent that they haven't a clue how far from production they are AND they're remarkably ineffective at communicating or they're intentionally deceiving. Since they benefit by lying, the answer seems apparent.

And even more than that they want(ed) your money ... ;)

Frizz, just wondering, which horse are you backing in this race?  Be interesting to know if you're counting on any ASICs since you think BFL is el Diablo. :)

BFL (first), bASIC (a lil later) and Avalon (not in first batch though).

Once one is able to deliver I'll cancel the other two.


:D ... not the devil. I just don't like to be punked. And I strongly dislike BFLs sucky "information policy".

???
There has only been one batch of Avalon so far. Scheduled to ship at Jan 14th.

Haha BitSyncom, don't try to understand Frizz... he's a pathological liar and troll, it will just hurt your brain.

It took me some time to understand why BFL would chose such an arse as their PR guy.

But it seems a sucky company needs a sucky representative.

Inaba is one of the main reasons why I consider cancelling my order. He for sure will (or already is?) the first one to use ASICS before everyone else does - making a fortune while "beta testing" (on main net of course) with all those terra hashes.

I think for all the whining and bitching you post about BFL, it is very interesting that you still ordered from them, and have kept those orders. You troll them all day long, but you have no problems giving them your money and mining on their hardware. Way to "put your money where your mouth is". ;)

Oh? They started shipping?

They've shipped plenty of FPGA devices from my understanding. Which seem to be very economical for pre-ASIC mining.

 ::) Yes we all know that. Just in case you missed it: We talk about ASICs since quite some time now ...

For the readers who just tuned in, bitsnpieces is also known here as frizz23.

Back to the original point of this thread.

BFL is definitely improving on their customer relations front...they called me last week in response to an email I sent......EMAIL THAT I SENT IN JUNE....to answer any questions I had. I politely informed them they were months late on the FPGA sale. I'd gone with the trustworthy Tom.

Yes I got a call like that as well... of course the rep wasn't able to answer any important questions... and my sales issue was long since resolved.

EHEHE :) indeed Unaccpetable, it's almost mental disorder !!!   Frizzz : what do you gain for so much bashing ?  You care that much of others and are so convinced of your point that you made it to save others ??  Can't figure what's the motive to do so !

I'm mystified !

arround 1/40 chance to win 650$ for free is good lottery stats for me.
I've not so much important stuff to put in my signature anyway, anything maybe, but especially not <NOT FOR SALE!>  :P

BFL delays and competitors did'nt delivered ?  Another ticket for the lottery, and my few GPU continue to go on at a reasonable diff level :)

I've absolutely no problem at all :D  Happy week-end, Happy mining !

I still suspect BFL is waiting until the last moment to ship to get as many orders in as possible.I also would entertain the suspicion they could have colluded with other companies to ship them all the same time and maximize their income.

 

I totally agree.

You really think you can attract more orders by not delivering, instead of being first delivering? Explain me the logic behind this please?

De-nile...a river in Egypt...and so much more.

Explain the logic please? Oh wait, you are that one trick troll pony creativex.

Sure, bfl moves 10 times more what their competition united do and they will enter agreements with the rest..

If they had fully populated PCBs that were working I think we would have seen pictures by now  :-\

Perhaps they needed to do a metal layer change on their ASIC.

Yeah I know...everybody that thinks for themselves and doesn't hit their knees whenever a BFL_blah posts is obviously a troll. ;D

Oddly, I was actually agreeing with you and your skepticism with regard to the two posts above yours. Did you just recognize that I don't have a BFL ad in my sig and go on the offensive? ;)

Uhh, no. Apologies offered, but maybe you should have posted your in-denile comment after quoting that 2-posts-above-mine comment, rather than under mine? What do I care about someones existent or non-existent sig, it is more like the anti-bfl sentiment you show in about every bfl thread you post in. Greetings from some "bflite, with sore knees from hitting them".

Yeah, not a fan of the company's performance and their employee selection process is...er...questionable at best. They needed this product cycle to go well after that cluster of an FPGA roll out. Instead they have the makings of an even larger cluster.

There are more than enough BFL cheerleaders around to balance things out...at least for now.

I agree...& more than enough bASIC cheerleaders as well....how are the pics & info coming there?? Kinda slow too,huh  :D

Definitely! For myself I don't care about pics or renderings, but I want info and none has been coming, despite announcements. Not too worried about it yet, but also not ordering additional units till I have more specs.

I browse bASIC,BFL & here several times daily to keep up to date myself.

Well,I honestly wish the best of luck to ALL ASIC makers,we're gonna need it  ;)

I can't order more units until I mine more coins,only buying with mined BTC,converted to cash or not dosen't matter.

Here's hoping in early December we can get to mining with these new device's  8)

I'll drink to that!

Cheers.

+1

Jitterbug....... You put the boom boom into ma heart...... yea yea

Asics are making me miss my high!!!

 ;D

And thus we see the necropotence of a Lich resucitating the shambling corpse back to unlife. A rotting shambling carcass moving as if not decapitated. :o

What does Rosie O'Donnell have to do with this? ???