Bitcoin Forum

I had hired tradefortress to do some programming for me and I had given him a 15btc deposit.  He hasn't responded to any of my messages for a week.  How do I have a scammer tag applied.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122428.msg1338992#msg1338992.

Do I need to contact a moderator for this?

Just copy and paste the messages and the TX ID's. The admin will independently verify the messages later if needed.

Is this why TF requested to go off PM into email so quick?

How was this issue resolved?
It looks like TF is in the process of scamming me and several other people using his minimal Coding skills.
He took 27 BTC from me (I'm asking/waiting for a refund from him).
A scammer tag could prevent others from giving him more BTC for unusable/shitty web development.

I wouldn't trust the testimony in a necro'd thread of a confirmed scammer.

You do realize that this person has a scammer tag, and that I haven't scammed him or you?

I'm sorry that the development time was longer & the experience wasn't working out of the box (even through it would have if you used the latest version of PHP & bitcoind), but that's not because of "shitty web development", more of issues with your configuration which i won't go over again and again.

However, I have to say I suspect MoneyPakTrader is motivated by attempting to (and he will not) getting more money than he actually paid me with a free long on BTC. You went from asking if you owe me more to full refund to 16 BTC refund to 12 BTC refund. It's called trying to see how much you can get.

I actually have suspicions that you edited the files to make the deposits *not* working after I've tested it to be (blockchain doesn't lie), but since you've locked me out of cPanel I can't check the timestamps.

So what would I offer to resolve this? Simple, get the site working. but I suspect you're not interested in getting the site working, rather closing your retroactive long on Bitcoin/USD and fucking with the script.

Yeah, tradefortress has been nothing but a source of information and laughs since I walked through the door. I wouldn't ever question his loyalty to the bitcoin project.

Disclaimer: I have not done business with him, but he doesn't strike me as the kind of poster to cause drama or scam

I confirm that TradeFortress scammed me out of 27 BTC by promising to do programming work he is incapable of performing competently.
I offered to let him return only half of the btc he scammed from me to resolve the issue, but no dice. He's now accusing me of changing the code to make it so shitty, when I don't even know how to code.
His work is requiring almost a complete rewrite and he takes no accountability at all for the shoddy work that took too long past his estimates and doesn't perform according to our agreement.
I've detailed how he scammed me for so much in the tradefortress review thread if anyone cares to read that.

This guy is really dangerous because he knows just enough web programming to string customers along into paying more and more BTC without the ability to competently complete a bitcoin website.

The sooner he gets the scammer tag, the less victims he will find.

If it weren't for the numerous similar allegations, I would have doubts also. Have you read the tradefortress review thread?
After having dealt with this scammer firsthand and read the numerous other stories that recount almost the exact same modus operandi, it's a safe bet that he intends to continue scamming forum users with offers of programming services he is incompetent to perform.

How about more proof that hearsay? He is offering to make it work so let him or are you really like the Ebayers filing complaints just to get partial refunds because they can? Sorry but "I said, they said" doesn't cut it. Competitors CAN and WILL trash the competition for gain, I have experienced it personally.

Proof:
1. Notarized statements from your other "experts".
2. Let a third party agreed upon by both you and Tradefortress examine the product in question.
3. Find a solution

I've read it. Only one other person came forward with a similar claim, and neither his nor your testimony really convinces me of any wrongdoing on his part. Outside of that thread, the only other bad review is this one here. And like I said: it's an old thread posted by a confirmed scammer. Not very compelling evidence.

And from what I can tell, even if you're right, it's still not a scam: at worst it ends up as overpriced work.

I can see a new thread from MoneyPakTrader when BFL ships:

"I accidently dropped my Butterfly Labs ASIC miner, I am refusing a RMA from BFL, I demand keeping it and getting a full BTC refund even with a price rally"

My new offer is paying for legally binding arbination. Funny how he's quiet now.

Thanks for your comments. @MPT, I will pay for legally binding arbination. Sounds good?

LOL, good one
I'm not sure what that is, but if a trustworthy programmer wants to look at your work, I'm sure they'd agree I deserve a full refund.
Hopefully it was only the 3 of us who got scammed, but I have suspicions there are people who haven't reported it yet. Hopefully TF won't scam anyone else for a couple months but the amount of BTC he can pull in by pretending to do decent web-work is likely to make him continue, probably under a new name though.

After TF breached our contract for the last time by being far overdue and claiming the site was finished and able to correctly process BTC, I once again tested the site and found it non-functional per the agreed specs. Rather than continue to go back and forth with TF trying to get him to do work he is obviously incapable of doing, I contracted with another programmer to clean up the mess left by TF and finish the site.
TF obviously won't be getting another chance to finish my site.

Resolution was offered, you want to sling mud. Post proof, not hearsay or STFU. Pretty simple.
I think you need to be looked at as a possible scammer.

I am offering to pay for legally binding arbitration. You choose any reputable service, I pay for it if it's within the general price range. I suggest judge.me. Since you apparently never heard of it, try Google.

If I am here to scam, ask yourself why I would have reported a serious security vulnerability of a popular bitcoin site instead of running away with the coins. Or thousands traded with PayPal, 0 chargebacks. And spending way more time I'm compensated with getting my investors a good return on their funds.

I see he now offered to pay the $300 fee to use judge.me after you made this comment about resolution. This seems strange as I offered to let him out of the contract for 12 BTC (out of the 27 I paid). I am willing to arbitrate.
I accept your offer and choice (judge.me). Since you're paying the cost ($300).
It seems that unless I accept, I would definitely lose all 27BTC.
I am reluctant to use this service when there are no published cases, but it seems I have no other viable option for recovering my loss.

TradeFortress, are you going to arrange this?

Here is the related thread, these 2 threads are similar: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126588.0
Hopefully, we'll get this resolved, I wasn't expecting TF to be honorable after my horribly negative experience with him, but hopefully he will do the right thing. . .

Thanks for the information here, I now know to not deal with MoneyPakTrader.

I really don't see why people are saying MoneyPakTrader is the scammer and not TF.
I saw the code, half it's functions were not working, the structure looks like it was made by a 14 year old with 2 months experience.

IMHO, the job that MoneyPakTrader paid for was not delivered in time nor completed, so he deserves at-least a partial refund.

IT Projects are never on time. TF should get his stuff fixed and deliver a usable product that is within spec.

I'm a "14 year old with 2 months experience" apparently. Yet I'm fixing code for BitFunder. Good job code detective! :D

Interesting how the code stopped working between I tested it successfully and revoking my cpanel access.

Still no acceptance of legally binding arbitration from MoneyPakTrader.com. Judge.me accepts bitcoin, and I'd like to go with that to increase use of the currency.

I have dealt with TradeFortress on a development project, and have received far more in value than I contracted for. He is responsive, intelligent, and easy to work with. I've been VERY pleased.

I've already addressed this issue a couple posts above.
Also, in response to why don't I let TF finish the site:
The reason I don't let him finish is because his work is horrible and after I repeatedly reported the problems in his finished product and being given another "finished product" by him that didn't work up to the specs, I have no obligation to let him string me on any more while delivering shoddy work.
I encourage other users to try TF coding and judge for themselves rather than trusting the 3 people who are unsatisfied with his work.
Assuming TF pays for arbitration to decide how much of a refund he owes me, that would be great. I encourage other coders to assist in reviewing TF's finished site he gave me and judge for themselves if it is a finished product.
 I shouldn't need to go through every basic aspect of the site and tell him how it doesn't work, that's what I was doing with TF. Finally when the Bitcoin deposit system (an integral part of the site which was the first thing I asked him to do for the site) was non-functional after TF attempted to deliver a working bitcoin deposit system for the 10th time or so, I demonstrated it didn't work and posted the evidence (in the other forum thread).

As TF drags this out, it becomes obvious he is using my coins to "go long" as he says with BTC intending to keep the profit of any price increases.
TF, if you're not going to reimburse the 16 BTC I'm paying to finish the job you said was done (only 12BTC after giving you the craptastic programmer discount), my settlement offer will be revoked 24hrs from this post. I am holding you responsible for theft of 27 BTC through fraud/scam through misrepresentation of services. Your coding is not worthy of being sold. You can send your "finished product" of my site to any competent programmer and they will say the same thing. You could continue to finish the site you repeatedly said was already finished and it would still be craptastic and unacceptable on the most cursory review. I contracted for TF to set up the site on my server, so complaining about the server is non-excusable.
After it became obvious TF was incapable of delivering a usable product that wasn't buggy (when he delivered a "final product" to me for about the 10th time which was full of bugs), I was obligated to stop trusting him with my website. Any rational business owner would have done the same (probably a lot sooner). My mistake was trusting him when there were obvious signs of his coding incompetence from the start. He pretended to know how to do everything I wanted from the start and then after I give him coins, he blamed the site/server and everything except his own incompetence for his inability to do what he promised. Now he blames me, like I sabotaged his masterpiece so that I could pay someone else to fix it. It makes no sense, if he gave me a complete product worth paying for I wouldn't need to hire someone else to do the job. . .

As most clients looking for website development, my goal is a finished website that is secure, functional, well designed, and capable of being expanded. TF work on my site was counter-productive to all these goals.
For these reasons, I feel my settlement offer is overly generous and lets TF make off with 15 BTC, FAR more than he earned by giving me a worthless/nonfunctional website. Hopefully we can have another programmer review his code and they will agree it is NOT a finished website as TF claimed. There is a point in the contracting process where the client can say, enough is enough, I was well beyond that point with TF and well within my rights to fire him for incompetence.

You keep running your mouth after you agreed to arbitration. The more you talk the more you convince me you are a terrible employer who tries to bully others into accepting less for their work. If you don't want him to fix it, that's on you and he owes you nothing.

Did he or you agree on pay to fix the supposed mess that was made? If so, did you quote a cheaper price? Without actually seeing it we can't honestly know if it's good or bad. TF claims it was working when sent and now doesn't work. Did you or anyone change it in any way?

I'm the programmer that's working to "fix" (pretty much a complete rewrite) the code.
I asked for 16 BTC, when I started I didn't knew who was the first programmer (TF), only when I saw it on my "Show unread posts since last visit." list.

When the script was delivered to me, some of the features weren't working, I didn't change the code before the tests.

He has terrible programming techniques.

"Terrible Programming Techniques" still doesn't always mean it won't work as intended. Just because you are more efficient doesn't invalidate someone's work. I learned that long ago when I first started HTML.
Thanks for the reply.

This applies: "When the script was delivered to me, some of the features weren't working"

That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.

@ moneypaktrader My dad is a computer engineer and has owned his own software company for 20 years (Norlinx out of RTP) if you would like I can have him look over the code this weekend when I go to visit, he would defiantly be able to say if it was done correctly and if it was done by a competent programmer or not. If you would like me to have him take a look just let me know.

This. Mining4Fun is confirmed to be Hashking a huge scammer who owes me a lot of money.

TF, will you please publish your "finished site" code and share the link so we can have it reviewed?
I can share what was published on my site by TF, but he might say I rewrote it to make it craptastic.
Even if TF attempts to fix it and publish his revised "final product" code, I'm sure it won't be a usable product.

AFAIK Carlos L. only fixed one CRITICAL problem with the site which I'll disclose after the code is published, but it is otherwise available (as TF declared it finished) at moneypaktrader.com until we get the new site up on there.
Otherwise, nobody changed his code, it failed for several reasons, once TF publishes the code and shares the link, we can review its deficiencies and see how craptastic it is.
One time, when TF gave me the "finished" site when logins didn't even work, it took forever for him to get admin panel viewable, and now there's still numerous reasons why the site is useless for the initial intent (BTC deposit for Debit Card Loading). TF had the site using a wallet on blockchain for btc deposits with forwarding to the cold wallet, but this was broken as I demonstrated in the other thread. Maybe he has since corrected the deficiency, probably not.
Further, it seemed the site is inaccessable when bitcoin price api was inaccessible - another critical problem. And numerous errors are returned consistently, even displaying the blockchain login/PW in one error message I received. TF did say I could turn off error messages on server to prevent that though. . .
Of course professional programmers could better analyze the site's deficiencies, I'm only able to comment on the surface level visible stuff.

Update: TF is apparently reneging on his arbitration offer.

I believe TF is a SCAMMER because:
1) He scammed me out of 27 BTC by promising to deliver a site he was incapable of programming.
2) He is refusing to cooperate in the investigation process of his scam work on my site (he won't show his "final product" code here and is reneging on arbitration). Public review of his work on my site will obviously be very embarrassing for him, thus it is very unlikely for him to settle our dispute openly.
3)  He has scammed others (he probably thought it was safe to scam other scammers, but he got greedy and started scamming more forum members and obviously has plans to continue to do so).

How can he prove he is not a scammer?
1) Post his finished code for my site and link us the address so we can review it. This will show whether he was really trying to create my site or just throwing enough code together to let him steal a hefty 27BTC with the plausible deniability that he tried to code the site.
-OR-
2) Follow through with his offer to pay for arbitration at judge.me
-OR-
3) Refund me the 27 BTC I paid for the site.

Where did TF reneg on his offer to cover arbitration?

Well after I accepted his offer both in the forums and through PM, TF continues to show activity in the forums yet hasn't gone through with his offer to start arbitration.
He just messaged me requesting information for judge.me arbitration which I provided, we'll see what happens next.

LOL, I just got up and the first thing I did was read your PM and go on Judge.me.

1) You're a scammer for changing the scope of the project multiple times.
2) I won't show it because you locked me out of my access from cPanel. What do you think I'm going to do? Brute force it?
3) No I haven't, and I haven't scammed you either.

1) ***you*** are the one that is making it impossible for me to do this point.  ::)
2) Did it right after I saw the PM. I need your full name and email address.
3) I'm sure you would want a refund of $270 if BTC tanks to $0.1 each. That's not how it works.

I sent you a PM before you made this post. Liar.

LOL Your full name is Moneypak Trader? Sure I'll enter that. I'm filling in the summary now.

EDIT: Emailing support about it first, I do not want to waste $299 if the arbitrator's closes it because of him not supplying his name. I also love the lack of response from him.

Sounds Indonesian or Maldivian or something like that.

Duh, when you run the code on an unsupported platform it's not going to work. Deposits wasn't broken, it only became broken when you revoked my cPanel access.. Fill in the blanks


Yes, the site is inaccessible when Blockchain.info's API is down. Surprise? I've TOLD you that this is a problem with blockchain.info, you ignore it.

I have emailed you with instructions on how to suppress errors WAY earlier. Is it my fault if you ignores that too and complains about the login/PW.

I bet when he's web host goes down or when he forgets to renew the domain he's going to complain that it's my fault..

Thank you

The case has now been confirmed by both parties.

We will now send the necessary invoices and add an arbitrator to your case within 2 working days or receiving payment.

You will receive an email notification with further instructions soon.

EDIT: It seems like the case isn't going to go through. Judge.me told me that they need the name of the individual or company representative, and MoneyPakTrader doesn't seem to want to disclose it.

So now we wait for him to come on here and claim that you're scamming him by not going through with the arbitration again? :P

UPDATE:
I decided to go ahead and file the case rather than wait for him. It was a simple process and both TF and myself were emailed with the details that he shared already.
 TF has NOT paid the filing fee fore the case I filed at judge.me and I don't see any case that he filed (maybe because he never filed his case?).
The quote he shared appears to be for the case I filed.
I notified judge.me of TF willingness to pay the filing fee which they are waiting for.
Now it is TF turn to pay the fee to complete the filing:
From: Judge.me Sat 02:14
"Thank you for using judge.me.
Our records indicate that both parties agreed to split the arbitration fee. Trade Fortress, could you please confirm whether or not you want to pay tbe entire fee upfront or split the fee upfront?
Kind regards,
Peter-Jan Celis
www.judge.me
Skype: peter.jan.celis"
Strange that they would send an email to only you about this supposed issue about my information. My experience with judge.me is that they correspond to both parties together (see above).
Can you share the exact quote? Was it from Peter or someone else?

Bottom Line for TF:
Please pay the full arbitration fee (as you promised above) so we can get to damages issue and have you reimburse my losses from your failure to code properly.

I'm releasing a zip of TF final product of my site moneypaktrader.com :
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
direct link - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
If any programmers want to review it and comment on whether it is suitable as commercial web-design/development work, please do so.
Please don't change the PW, so people can test out his bitcoin deposit system, or if someone does change it, you'll need to set up a new blockchain account to test it. It did work once for 0.001 BTC deposit I think. Feel free to steal that, but don't change PW.

good for you on getting your money back, best of luck in court ;)

As far as TF bullshit line of a long for free is a complete BS, if it was paided in USD that would be fine but he paided in BTC therefore you owe the same amount in BTC. if btc is to become a real currency and used currency you cant compare it to usd and call it a long. Thats like me saying you owe me more USD because btc went down in value.

Should TF be placed on the pending scammer list? here... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149147.0

I said I was going to contact judge.me support because you're not identifying yourself with a full legal name. You filed a case regardless, with your summary and ticked the box that clearly said split the fee.

Strange that they would only tell one party? From email: "We always need either the name of the individual or the company representative." Didn't you get that? Complain to judge.me about it, not me, because I'm not support@judge.me.

I have NOT received any paypal invoice or instructions on paying. Nor any other response after I mentioned you run a money laundering business on the silk road. Plus, YOU filed the case, you used your summary, you file yourself as a "business" (registration numbers?)

I'm not going to waste more of my time with this pointless drama, get your shit together, use your real name (which I already supplied to judge.me), don't tick the "Split the fee" and than ask me why I'm not paying the fee, and don't blame me when judge.me doesn't respond.

If you keep flinging shit at me to get me to give you 27 BTC back after you found a developer who does it cheaper and when BTC price tripled, it's not going to work. Proceed with arbitration.

@starsoccer9: You better not order from Butterfly Labs, Coinabul, Bitcoin Pride, yada yada. Doesn't matter if you paid with BTC or silver certificates.

give him is money back or post the code for review. I am going to Raleigh tomorrow to set up my mining rig. I will have my dad look at it and say what is what. He is a computer engineer of 20 years and owns his own software company norlinx.

He never agreed to reveal his ID to you, he shouldn't have to now. You are the one who didn't deliver a usable product. That is the main reason I have never dealt with MPT, he needs to protect is ID, I only like to deal with people I can look into.

You are going to be put on the pending scammer list until this issue is resolved.     
 

Thanks, I posted the code TF delivered as a final product. My current programmer has required a complete rewrite because it's unusable. If any programmers are willing to review TF product here, it should make labeling TF a scammer easier (the work speaks for itself). Of course TF is free to post his version of his final version of my site if he believes his work I posted is inaccurate.
Here it is again: http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
direct link - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html

So you refused to file with judge.me and now you're refusing to pay for the case I filed because I am doing something you knew about me from before we ever contracted to have the site built? Anyways, I'll split the fee if you want to do that, pay your half and I'll pay my half in BTC. But, you already agreed to pay the filing fee, so this only makes you look even more guilty by reneging on that.
They have the company representative info. You're not going to evade your promises that way. Either pay the full fee as you promised or pay half. Obviously if you paid the arbitration fee and they canceled it because of my fault you'd get the money back.
Don't try so hard to be a weasel.
Does anyone have the IRL info for TF? It's pretty obvious he's a scammer and it would help with collections.
Don't be such a liar, it went to your admin@glados.cc account. Check the spam folder and/or stop lying about that.
It's the same email you received confirmation of the arbitration I filed (which you posted in this thread), so I know you're getting the emails from them.
Ok, so you gave them my name. Good, glad you can't hide behind that any more.
But now you're abandoning your arbitration offer? And you think everyone is going to just trust you with more BTC? I pity the fool who doesn't do their research on you. You need a scammer tag before you steal even more unsuspecting forum user's BTC.
I'm offering to pay half the arbitration fee now, since it's impossible to file and have the other person pay the full fee (which you must know). Anyways, I filed, I'll pay half the fee in BTC if they take that or someone will pay the paypal and I'll pay them for it.
Anyways, you are obviously reneging on your offer for arbitration and it seems you never intended to pay it anyways. . .
I offered to let you off for less, you refused. Now you owe the full amount for fully failing to do the job. You need to give me all the btc back because the new programmer is completely redoing the code and you have no right to keep btc for a job you couldn't do from the start. You have no right to any portion of the payment, because you couldn't do the job and your work is unfit to be sold as web-programming.
Pay the fee or half the fee and we'll arbitrate. Don't pay and it's obvious you're a scammer.
You stole/scammed 27 BTC from me thinking I was not going to follow through in the forums or you could discount me the way you discounted the initial poster here.

Bottom Line:
I renew my claim that TF and all his identities on here should get the scammer tag because he offered to pay for arbitration openly in here and is now backing out. Coupled with the fact he scammed me out of 27 BTC and there are 2 other reports of him scamming by using programming as the draw.

Explain how I'm supposed to pay for something I haven't got an invoice for and with no response from judge.me. In fact I've followed them up on the email and still no response.

Seriously, I'm just going to ignore you if you keep posting BS to stall and want to get 4x of what you paid for without actually going through arbitration.

Let me make this clear:

YOU ARE NOT WAITING ON ME. I CAN'T DO ANYTHING AND I'M NOT GETTING ANY EMAILS BACK FROM PETER-JAN.

YOU ARE WAITING ON JUDGE.ME OR JUDGE.ME IS WAITING ON YOU (or the FBI).

I'm not even going to bother pointing out your colluding / lying messages here, because I'm saving that up for judge.me.

Make sure you request that he be judged liable for your fees for defending your reputation. This isn't just about whether or not you are innocent, it's about the damages he caused you. I'm very interested in seeing the result of this.

Also, make sure to send an anonymous tip to the FBI for money laundering :)

I have no respect for people like MoneyPakTrader who scam using scammer accusations. It's like false rape accusations.

When and how MoneyPakTrader.com scammed TradeFortress?
I'm starting to think you're a sock puppet.

Uh, I think he's at Tradefortress's side, not MoneyPakTrader.com.

Hence my question.

Oops, had a moment of brain freeze just now.   :-[

I'm sure you think of everyone disagreeing with you as a sockpuppet, right? Especially when you're trying to earn from TradeFortress's money?

There's so many people trying to take advantage of each other - not just in the bitcoin economy. This 'accusation' hits close to home for me - a year ago, I did significant design work for a friend of a friend. After a few months, she wanted the money back because she didn't like what I made. Being that we haven't done it formally, I just shrugged and refunded her under the condition she won't my work, but a bit later I check her website and she hired someone to recreate what I did.

The same situation is happening here - MoneyPakTrader.com appears to be wanting to find another developer due to the bitcoin price rally. The fact that MoneyPakTrader wants a full refund makes me know his true intentions.

How would I earn with TF money? It's not like MoneyPakTrader needs that money to pay me.

Was your design usable? If it was, than fine, you didn't need to refund her. If it wasn't, well, it's hard to pay someone in full and not get a  usable thing. That's what happened with MoneyPakTrader, he paid in full and the work he paid for was not working.

Had this happen to me as well, why I am skeptical. Add to that the the constant ultimatums in the forum for refunds. At least give it time to get sorted. I reserve my judgement until all the facts that can be made clear are made so.

I've had a quick look over the code. I haven't tested it fully yet but if I get time I will do so, but from my quick glance over it I fail to see how this was "written by a 14 year old with 2 months experience".

I paid 27 BTC (currently valued over $1K USD).
I received this as the final product: http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
direct link - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html

Therefore TF scammed me for 27 BTC.

The BS about arbitration was apparently redirection away from the facts of the dispute. TF has no intention on following through with arbitration at judge.me or anywhere else or he would have done so. It's very simple to file an arbitration claim as I did, but instead TF tried to weasel out on the name issue which he failed at.

You can judge for yourself based on the facts. maybe you think a website that doesn't accept btc deposits correctly and doesn't allow PW changes is acceptable. . . He pretended like he coded the decent looking bitcoin website in his sig when I asked him to do a site like that, but obviously he has little to no ability to code a bitcoin site like I asked for. Having the site spit out errors constantly and not even load if the connection to mtgox or blockchain is down is also unacceptable. The site he made is worthless to me.
Having that website in his sig while advertising coding skills is obviously fraudulently implying he coded it and can code something close to that. Particularly because I asked for a site like that and he went along with that for the deal we made.

I've addressed the legality issue of my services in my thread.

Perfect. Send TF a list of all the problems/changes you want made and have him fix/make them.

Did you have a contract with him?

Already done a long time ago and after much time wasted, the final site submissions continuously failed to meet the agreed specs and he has been fired.
If the mechanic on your car fails repeatedly to fix/improve it as you ask and it's obvious he is unqualified to do the original task, you don't ask him to keep working on it do you?
I guess that's the heart of the dispute though. If someone is unskilled/unable to do the job they say they can do, should they get time to learn and keep hammering at the job until it resembles what they agreed? I say no, if they can't / don't perform, then I shouldn't need to go through the work and tell them to bring everything into compliance (for the 3rd/4th times).
He knew all along the site needed a way to get bitcoins in and out and claimed (again) it was working on his final submission of the site. When he says it's working and basic tests show it's not, I won't argue with him about it, begging him to do the site correct, he's fired. He had plenty of warning that his work on the site was failing specs and it is no surprise to him being fired.
Ultimately his  willingness to pretend he is not an incompetent programmer allowed his scam to work. Along with pretending to know how to code a bitcoin ecommerce site (pretending to have done the site in his sig).

I'll ask the important part again, did you have a contract?

If you didn't have a contract that clearly specified the configuration that TF was supporting (x version of bitcoind, x version of php, x version of MySQL, x y and z web browsers) then he is liable to support whatever version of bitcoind, php, msql etc that you are using. Also, unless clearly specified, he is not liable to add a "forgot password" screen, although it would be unfair not to do so.

You say he is an incompetent programmer, I work in the web development industry, and many clients have come to the company I work for after spending sometimes in the hundreds of thousands of dollars on some cowboy web development company. They had to call it a loss and start all over again as it was their fault for choosing that company, they never seen a penny of that money as that company acted entirely within their contract. just because somebody is an incompetent programmer (which BTW I personally do not agree that TF is) doesn't mean you are entitled to a full/partial refund.

The script was made so only him can understand (actually, you can understand it, but you have to spend a few hours on it) and implement new features.
Tell me what experienced programmer would make ONE page for the entire backoffice script? A minor change to one of those if's would cause tons of bugs.

Maybe I exaggerated when I said "written by a 14 year old with 2 months experience". But that wasn't certainly made by a experienced programmer capable of making a website like this.

I have to say, the only person in this dispute who sounds like they know what they're doing, and isn't irrational is TradeFortress. I've dealt with many, many, many web devs (some shit, some great) over the last 15 years. Carlos comes across as someone trying to sound technical, and stick up for a buddy. Also the move moneypaktrader pulled in starting his own arbitration and then choosing split the costs set off all sorts of red flags for me.

Just my $.02

Cutting to the facts you use in your analysis
Good thing I started the arbitration or it would never have been filed and we'd be left with TF BS about Real ID needed. Unfortunately, you can NOT file arbitration with judge.me and ask the other person to pay the full amount. I agreed to pay half the cost after TF raised that as an excuse (even though TF previously said he'd pay the full cost). I fell into the trap some of you are in (believing that if I addressed TF complaints, he might go through and follow his word by paying the other half). Obviously his comment on this topic was subterfuge and it worked like his other subterfuges worked in distracting people from the real issue. This is how he does the work too - TF move #1 - Give me a final product that fails spec in multiple ways and ask me go through and find all the bugs to correct. Typical customer response - try to explain all the bugs to him. Repeat TF move #1 with excuses as to why he can't perform correctly and as much misdirection as possible. He KNEW the spec when he submitted the final site to me every time it failed, so when he submitted it the last time, I was within my rights to reject his contract for fraud.
Hopefully that clears up the facts a little.

It is funny that the scammer who took 27 btc from me, 15 from another, more from another, probably more from others. . .  ends up as the one people seem to side with even after I posted his code for public review.
He knows just enough about coding to be dangerous and lead people on to take more coin from them.
He got me, but hopefully this thread is preventing others from losing coin to him.

I can understand if people don't like my writing, but to allow theft/fraud of coin from me because of that is a little overboard.

Yes, the contract started with me asking for a site that could process bitcoin deposits similar to the site in his sig. He agreed (implying that he designed that site, probably how he does the scam). Months later I realize he's never coded a bitcoin deposit taking website.
When a person engages in a trade, they have a duty to perform competently or else they will be responsible for refunds. I had no agreement to give him money for sub-standard non-functional work.
I am responsible for giving him the 27 BTC and facilitating his scam, true. But I am definitely within my rights to cancel his contract because he breached it by submitting a final website (multiple times) that failed to meet the requirements of the contract.

Anyways, all this would be resolved in arbitration. Unfortunately judge.me is apparently unable/unwilling to do it. If they ever explain why the case is being ignored, we will know the reason, until then we can only speculate.
I'd pay half for arbitration but it's obvious TF has no intention of refunding any of my coin regardless of the arbitrator's ruling.
I like sublime's idea of having open arbitration in the forums, which is kinda what we're doing here.
I submitted my evidence (which is undisputed as far as I can tell) -
1) I paid 27 BTC.
2) I received this (after much back and forth on his inability to code the site correctly) - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
3) I canceled the contract.
4) TF refuses any refund.
5) At least 2 other forum users have similar complaints (one has scammer tag though).
6) TF agreed to pay arbitration but never filed the case (TF instead emailed judge.me with complaints against me, preventing my case from being allowed, see below).
7) It appears that instead of filing/paying the fee, TF intentionally sabatoged the arbitration with unfounded false allegations. . .

even after I posted his code for public review. link please?

 ;)

Shit I can't have my dad review the code for this page. I will get another programmer to review it. I will let the forum know what they say, but I really only trust what my dad says.

"My dad is too busy to review the code". That's what did it for me. How about you guys at home?

Not that he is to busy asshole that he is a deacon in the church and I cant send him to a page with vibrators and bongs on it. 

Yup, that was the line.

Please note that none of us can actually run that code without a copy of the MySQL database.

^^ sheep

Then just download the zip file yourself and email it to him or something, the codes not much use without the MySQL DB anyways.

That's priceless, coming from a family that believes in gods.   :D

Anyway, regarding this thread - MoneypakTrader.com, you make FAR too many assumptions in your posts.  Try writing smaller rants, stick to a couple key points per post, and move forward once those facts have been confirmed.  You'll never get anywhere with your "apparently, obviously, assuming, etc." talk...

Man you guys are relentless. Where do you get "a family that believes in god" I said my dad was a deacon in the church. I didn't say what I believe in.

I am agnostic. fyi

ON TOPIC UPDATE TO MY TF SCAM CASE:
I have publicly agreed to donate 100% of the scammed coins TF took from me to charity.
So far I've recovered
--0--
of the 27 coins TF scammed from me (he scammed them by pretending to competently develop my website, story in this thread and also the thread here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146319.0)
I see there's no updates on his work products or reviews thereof so hopefully he's stopped doing it, but after making this kind of money that's unlikely.
How does the poll thing work again?
Also, I was briefly banned from posting to forum or sending messages for "SPAM". What are the forum rules on that? It's tough following the rules of my community if I don't know them. . .

The only thread I know of for forum rules is this one regarding moderation policy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20333.0
The list is more or less contains general guidelines, not all-inclusive rules. There's also a topic in the Meta section about off-topic replying. You'd probably have to ask theymos or a moderator for the specific details of your temporary ban.

Back on topic. I think I've mentioned this before, but I believe it still applies: it's not a scam even if your claim is true. What happened to you is that you paid TF for a website and he delivered a site that you're not happy with and that you claim was poorly designed. It's a case of buyer beware to me. You're well within your rights to give him a negative review if you're unhappy with his work (which you've already done), but claiming that he stole your money doesn't fit the situation.

If you had paid TF to design a website and he ran off with your money, then you'd have a good claim to label him a scammer.

It's probably because you were using a proxy like TOR and got blanket-banned. We get spambots via TOR a ton of times daily, and we IP ban them.

I see your point, TF elaborate methods of covering his tracks after taking the 27 BTC seems to have insulated him pretty well from accountability in this forum.
I guess if TF ever successfully finishes the job I paid him for, then your view would have more grounding, but as of now, the last work I received from him was non-functional as I described in the other thread (with links to the web-code available above for inspection).

You are a broken record.

1. You refused to let TF "finish" any work. Another has looked at the code and disputed some of your claims.
2. You used bad judgement by paying the total cost upfront
3. You keep on and on and on about how you were scammed. You were not. You didn't like the product so you hired another for less money. What were the terms of the contract? Post said terms.
4. Carlos L claims no code was changed, you stated it was. Which is it?
5. You have made it nearly impossible to get a judgement by interfering in the arbitration process. Why again did you do this? On purpose?
6. Keep repeating 1-5 until everyone's eyes bleed.

I think it's been said already- you have a right to be unhappy with Trade Fortress, but it doesn't mean he is a scammer. I suspect the possibility of fixing your working relationship has been ruined by this thread, but it seems like you could have worked with him longer to resolve your complaints.

Wrong, TF is encouraged to finish the job and post his new and improved "Finished Product" that I paid him for. However it won't be hosted on my server.
Which claims were disputed? obviously your opinion is worthwhile, but the specifics/links to facts are necessary for any credibility.
True, but if TF was trustworthy, this would be irrelevant.
Which contract? What good would that do? It seems regardless of the contracts/ btc paid, many people here don't want to condemn TF for scamming.
I don't recognize the references. The specifics/links to facts are necessary for a more detailed response.
The final unchanged version of TF code he gave me as his final product has been posted. AFAIK that's undisputed. It is non-functional.
TF could provide his version of the site showing how anyone supposedly changed it.
The whole site is being developed into a usable product, so that is being changed. Otherwise, as I wrote, not sure where your references are coming from (unless you're using unsupported statements made by TF).
Wrong and unsupported by the facts.
I'm the only person who filed an arbitration claim and TF admitted to interfering with the arbitration process by slandering me to judge.me and failing to file an arbitration case anywhere as his writing shows:
TF neither filed an arbitration case nor had any intention of paying an arbitration fee and proceeding with arbitration.
I made this obvious by filing the case and offering to pay half the fee, only later finding out judge.me won't proceed with the case because of TF's slander.
I could accept a less than professional website if I hounded him again and again to fix all the bugs in his final version which would likely take months to do, but that's not what I paid for. I solicited and paid for a professional quality, functioning web site. TF failed to deliver a functional site and he can not make a professional quality site regardless of the time given. He never has and never will IMHO.
Because TF offers to create commercial websites and doesn't have the skills/experience to do so, he is a scammer.

See quote for full details.

https://i.imgur.com/7Uk98do.png

You've wasted enough of my time already by not actually going through with arbitration and telling me to pay (even through I wasn't given anything to pay to!), and now months later seeing the rise in BTC you finally decide to go through with arbitration again?

Also, seeing as you're a trader, might go through the old currency exchange threads and bump the ones where people are selling BTC for $5 each.

/ignore

This thread doesn't have the concise history of the other one.
But to summarize:
So you're now openly reneging on your arbitration offer?
Wow, I knew arbitration was too good to be true because it would reveal how much of a fraudster you are.

Recent arbitration discussion timeline summary:

Continuous: TF never files an arbitration case and doesn't pay any arbitration fees anywhere and makes no attempt to resolve our dispute by refusing all of my settlement offers while using smokescreens to redirect away from the facts of the case.

February 28, 2013, 09:08:21 AM
TF offers arbitration for the last time (agreeing to pay 100%) after I already accepted his offer on February 28, 2013, 01:53:08 AM

March 01, 2013,
I make public notice of TF failure to proceed with arbitration.

March 03, 2013, 07:39:57 PM
I publicly encourage TF to proceed with arbitration.

March 05, 2013, 03:03:36 AM
TF publicly admits to contacting judge.me to slander me and my business. This provides the reason why judge.me took so long (~3 weeks) to decide whether to accept our case (which I filed).

March 11, 2013, 11:42:07 PM
I make public notice of TF's admission to slandering me to judge.me and TF failure to proceed with arbitration

Wed, Mar 20, 2013
judge.me agrees to take the case and requests payment (50/50)
I promptly pay half the arbitration fee despite TF previous offer to pay 100%.
Note: I paid the 50% due to TF previous complaint that the arbitration filing was under a 50/50 fee agreement.

Sun, 31 Mar 2013
judge.me sends TF a final notice to pay half the fee for arbitration.

Today -
I disclose to the forum that TF is refusing to pay even half the arbitration fee.

full details/links available here:

Both links are dead for me, any other sources than those two?

looks like that site went down recently, maybe TradeFortress kept a copy since it's his code and he was supposed to provide a working copy of it to complete the site. Then again, it would be embarrassing to him since it is sooo bad.

This thread is old why does it still go?

How dare you interrupt the smear campaign!

What a thread.

Lol, Of course he's a scammer  ;) No really he's not.

No, you paid for a service which TF was offering, he provided you with a deisgn & you didn't like it, now you think he's scammed you?

That's not a scam.


If that is true what you have quoted then yes I believe that is a scam.

No, he actually offered to code a working btc taking site and failed to do so. Not just design (although the design sucked too).
If he offered to "pretend to code a working site" or "design for site" I wouldn't have contracted with him.

Wow looks like op is the scammer and not TradeFortress.

He owes me 10.15 BTC that he has taken from me and given to other people.

He has also promised to pay 445+ other people 1 BTC each which he has yet not fullfiled.

Worse, he has done so by asking them for 100 BTC credit, in a deceitful manner, setting up a scenario where many people could be scammed out of a great deal of money.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206948.msg2213093
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210634.msg2209999

You should post in his trust with the links before he scams more people.

Update: Scammer TF not honoring his IOU's created through Ripple:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207054.0

Even theymos doesn't honor IOU's in Ripple. Does that make the head admin a scammer?

His title doesn't matter, he can be the head of state and still be a scammer. I'm pretty sure that not honoring IOU is a scam but I guess TF did say that it was all part of a massive experiment plus there is no way of telling if TF was the one who took all of that BTC.

Ripple IOU's are not legally binding.

@DiamondCardz:

Let's not contribute to the confusion.
Scammer tags on this forum have nothing to do with IRL law. 
They have everything to do with the rules of this forum, which are made by theymos.  It is his sandbox, it's a fun & useful sandbox, and those who play in it obey his rules or GTFO. 
Expressions like "legally binding" are as appropriate here as in the boardgame Monopoly.

you might want to write that off as a loss, TF is most definitely not the type to repay anything over 10 BTC.

is this the same tradefortress that is admin ?

admin of coinchat and some other questionable sites, yeah:
This is the scammer we're talking about, if you're trusting him with less than 10 BTC or so, you might be safe:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=67058

Stop bumping this thread lol

1. The OP has a scammer tag and is probably banned
2. Stop bloody bumping this, every time you bump spam I lose more respect for you (note: I never did respect you, though)

If you're that annoyed, just ignore him and GTFO.

Sorry to post on such an old thread with something unrelated.... but im going to try the above highlighted if I ever happen to dissatisfied with a "solicitor" ;) haha

You were banned for spreading phishing links on coinchat.

QQ more.

Good Point, I think I'll follow your actions on the subject.

Just try to avoid the Scammers as best you can, you'll find many on here.

TradeFortress? Not a scammer at all. <3

Here's a list of some of the scams TF is involved in (including how he scammed me):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=151880.msg2702121#msg2702121

100% scammer.

100%  liar. He lied about security, he lied about investments.

He should not have been trusted with 6000+ bitcoins.

Every time his reputation shows a warning, someone else mysteriously rates him and he is back in the green.

Wow... this thread is OLD...
I didn't know TF was already known as a scammer before the inputs.io hack. Why did people keep trusting him after he did such big scams??

Because he kept claiming he didnt do it and kept making new things keeping his background hidden.

Tradefortress and I had problems but I am glad I left his coinlenders site when I did.

Personally i would neve recommend anyone to use a website whose insurence that if hacked they will pay everyone back is I have the coins to pay everyone back if needed.