Bitcoin Forum

Hello fellow bitcoin users.

I have been watching bitcoin over the past 2 years, I 'bought in' about 6 months ago. Over the months I have watched bitcoin developments and feel strongly about bitcoins future. Barring some massive hole found in the code, or something disastrous happening worldwide which might make people feel that bitcoin is terribly insecure, I feel that bitcoin's rise is inevitable.

Now comes the stupid part. I am thinking about taking on a $10k-$15k student loan to purchase bitcoins.

No, I don't need you to tell me why this is a retarded idea or why this is massively risky. I understand the risks quite well and I think I have lost my marbles. I have determined that I would rather pay off this loan than miss this investment opportunity. I know that if this fails I will kick myself forever, but I am young (26) and I can recover.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any loan services which might be good for this purpose, or things I should know about making such a large purchase. Please keep the doom and gloom to yourself, I know this is stupid but I have made my decision. I need ideas and help.

I plan to be holding for at least 5-10 years, and I would be willing to part with about 50 of my coins for $15k to pay off my loan and break even (a.k.a. a price of ~$300 a coin). I will be holding my breath until then. I plan on doing this in such a way that I do no incur Forex taxes on my 'cash out'. And I would probably end up having someone pay off my loan for the trade of coins below market rate. I would probably end up paying for everything I need in bitcoins as I see no reason to exchange my money back out and let 'the man' take a cut of my profit. This is my super scary gamble and I want to keep my reward if I get it.

Thank you very much for any positive input. And I hope you have a great day.

Edit:

Its posts like these that show the top of the market cant be far away.

this massively stupid, dont do it!

OP isn't that fraud?  Taking a personal loan or using a credit card is one thing but how exactly are you planning on getting a student loan for "not being a student".  Also buying an investment on credit because it can't go down is a good way to royally screw up your finances.

Also if you are in the US understand the COMPLETE stupidity of what you are doing.  Student loans are the ONLY form of debt that you can never get away from.  No statutes of limitation, no credit reporting length, no ability to discharge in bankruptcy.  Car loan, mortgage, home equity loan, signature loan, business loan you get (with different levels of difficulty) get away from them but not student loans.   They are for life and the banks will use the collection arm of the IRS to seize every tax return from now till the day you die in order to satisfy your debt.

Do it!  If they have no problems with keeping you in debt with crazy ass loans, you shouldn't have any problem beating it :P  Just don't get into any legal trouble...

GO balls deep! Im turning everything i own into btc..  ;)

Just seen someone was trading their family dog for btc lol

People are taking out loans to buy cars! Clearly the top of the auto market is just around the corner....

But seriously, don't take out a loan for anything if you can avoid it.

It is not my family dog. It is one of the puppies out of the recent litter.
The family dog is the white stud who will probably be fixed (and retired) after this year, but will not be going anywhere.

;)

Actually, how much would interest cost for these loans once the 5-10 years is up?  Is it still worth it considering?

This idea is awesome! I might actually register for some classes so I can take out a student loan and do this.
But, I also have $20k student loan repayment through the Army that has never been touched.

I don't know about the laws around student loans, but I think they're pretty lax until you get in trouble.  A lot of people use some/most of the money as "living expenses" if they don't have a part-time job.  I also knew a guy who bought a motorcycle with student loans. So, go figure.

I would assume he would buy the bitcoins never sell them, and pay back the loan asap working a job...

I have a feeling he already has student loans and this would just be another 15K

Typical American Student?

Yeah they don't pay any attention to what you're doing with those loans.  I mostly use mine for food and shelter :P  I bought a phone too, but the loan money mixes with your regular money so they don't know what's what.  I don't know if OP could get caught.

If this trade goes against you you're going to be screwed. You can never discharge student loans in bankruptcy and the interest will keep accumulating until they start garnishing Social Security payments.

Really the only way out of unpayable student loans is to permanently expatriate.

Thailand's not so bad ;D

I hear there are job opportunities all over the world for native speakers to teach English...

Wouldnt it be better just to cash out the monthly loan payment and hope bitcoins price increase more than the APR?


I have never taken a student loan, so how does this work?
If tuition is $9k, and you take out a loan for $20k, isnt someone going to get suspicious?

they want you to use their loans so you can live comfortably without working a job to pay for rent / food, so you can focus on your studies, but you can spend it anything you want... all they care about is you paying it back + interest.

and no it would most likely be more profitable to sit on the bitcoins forever and pay back the loan with income.

I don't think buying right now is a good idea. I just can't see this high price being sustainable. Otherwise, I'll be doing something similar. I did it once, borrowing $15k last summer, and used the proceeds to pay off the loan and buy myself a new car. As soon as the price dips enough for me to feel comfortable again, I'll be borring $15k and doing this again. So, the idea isn't necessarily stupid, but the timing might be.

I think it's a good idea IF you plan on paying the payments and just keeping the coins as savings. What you are effectively doing is just "locking in" the price at about what it is now. I am almost tempted to do the same because what if the price rises to 100? It sure would be nice to be locked in at paying 37 if that is the case. But who knows

:/ I didn't know that this might be fraud, I have known people who used their student loan to buy a house. I will do more research into this. I picked a student loan because I am in school and I won't have to pay it off for a while.


No loans of any kind. I currently have several thousand in savings, but I need that for a rainy day and stuff. And like I already mentioned, I would not have to pay until I leave school.


These were my thoughts exactly.


OMFG lol! My sides!  :D


While I generally agree, I feel like the market might also go the other direction. From what I gather the market is of two minds. Either we will pop this bubble soon or we will take off like an atom bomb before popping. I feel that the risk of waiting is not worth the potential loss of an unknown amount of coins.

Maybe I should daytrade with 25% on Mt.Gox and try and call the top? Sounds even more risky. I would rather just hold. :|

My thoughts exactly. I feel that locking in the price, whether it goes up or down in the near future, is worth the risk. I will be making payments as soon as I have to. I will also pay off as much of the principle as I can. I currently have a job and I am doing pretty well for myself.

To all the bears: Yes I know.

To the people who are saying that you can't get rid of student loans through bankruptcy: Yes I know. But I won't have to pay until I stop taking classes.

Do it.

Just dollar cost average in over the next 2 years.  Will most likely be well worth it.  If not, fuck it, I'm still paying mine off and I never finished the first time either.

And I did know some students who kept going to college for the lone purpose of not wanting to start paying their debt. Like, 7+ years of undergrad. I don't know what they thought was going to happen to them eventually....

Why? Do you have a specific reason? I already said that I am ready to pay this off if bitcoin goes to $0 tomorrow. You are acting like I will die or something. I won't die, I will just feel really shitty. And to be frank, I have felt worse before. I have made stupider mistakes and been set back further in life. This is nothing compared to some of the stuff I have done. Go scare someone else who will listen.

I would be taking on a similar risk if I was starting a business, or even worse buying a car. At least with this loan I might make a profit, all of the other things I could buy are just liabilities. Does anyone have a safer investment for the same time period which will outpace inflation? I bet not.

Don't even try and tell me that gold/silver is a similar investment. I like those just fine, but I want a return. Those are hedges against a financial collapse, not investment vehicles.

I can't buy a house and rent it out for a similar price point. Starting a business will take more time, money, and a knowledge of a market. Also, about 50% of businesses fail within 5 years (http://www.businessknowhow.com/startup/business-failure.htm) anyway. Isn't that a gamble too?

What exactly do you think is a good investment?

This..

Almost all millionaires have been bankrupt few times before success..

Can you afford to lose it all ?  At your age, in your situation, I would do it, all in !  15k debt is'nt so much trouble at 26 with no ones to care for except yourself..

With the sate of the worldwide economy and quite dark future at the horizon !  Go for it, I would if I was you !

Do you happen to know if you pay interest on the loan while you keep it in this limbo? If not, that would rock. I plan to pay it off asap, and if I can I would keep a large portion of the wages from my job to pay the principle off asap. Normally I hate debt, buying stuff on a credit card sucks I have been there, but I am willing to take risks for a gain.


Mine too. I mean, I am just the guy who posted here. What is everyone else doing!? 0_0

Wow. Just fucking wow.

Here's an idea, get student loans and use that money for an education. You obviously need one if you think that this is in any way a good idea.

Thank you for the support, I know this a bad idea and that is a risk I am ready to take on. I have no wife, kids, or obligations other than my job. The worst that can happen is a fuck ton of debt.

XxionxX, if BTC was currently at ~$5 and hadn't moved much in over 2 months, then would you really be thinking of doing this?

Aw, who needs an education.  That's what we got Internet for!

I can already weld and I can program. Why do I need any more education? I get paid decent enough wages (as long as the dollar does not collapse) and I could pay this of with relative ease in under 5 years.

I live at my parents house and I don't pay rent (I do help with the utility bills though). I keep all of my pay and I don't do much with it. What would you do with all that money?

A college education for $15k? Where do you live!? I can't even get through a year for that! And there is no way to pay for the diploma with that amount! There is no way I can finish a degree with the life I am living, I can't do 40hrs a week and another 30hrs at school. I tried it, I almost died<-- seriously! I am not smart enough to get through school while working a job. It takes too much out of me. I need to focus on one or the other and I cannot do more than that. Don't think I haven't tried.

I am only able to take a few classes a semester to gain basic skills which I can market in the workforce. I am actually way better off this way anyway, don't worry about me I can handle this if it fails.

I am not ever going to be able to get a degree, no one will let me and my parents don't have the money after sending my sister to college.

Don't act like you know everything about how to make a living. Jobs aren't the only way to success, they only seem like it.

To add to that, all my professors state they never had to worry about working first or second jobs while going to school.  Apparently it's a relatively new thing that nearly everyone in college today also has to work good hours to make ends meet.  Recipe for disaster :P  The loans don't help, they just put off the debt.  Then when you're in debt, you really have to work to keep your head above water.  Locks you in until you're good and 40, or more.  I'm just gonna take it a step further and say it's intentional.

Wait, what?

You are 26, live with your parents, and don't pay rent? Holy shit, you are the epitome of a man-child.

And now you want to take out a loan to invest in a speculative internet currency with the relative risk level of a penny stock.....and you see nothing wrong with this?

What. The. Fuck.


Edit:

You asked what I would do with "all that money"?
I'd move into my own place. You know, like an adult.

i dont get it if you have money saved up... why would you take out a loan?

I don't understand what you mean. That is like supposing that silver was at 5 dollars and hadn't moved for more than a decade (http://www.macrotrends.org/1333/gold-and-silver-prices-100-year-historical-chart). How did the periods of inactivity predict the periods of activity?

I am basing my gamble on the increasing number of new businesses which have been successful, not the ticker price or the flurry of people on reddit.

In fact, if the price crashed just before I got my loan I would be ecstatic that I could buy more coins at a cheaper price.

All I am worried about is the price going to >$5, and unless you have some knowledge that I don't then I am happy with my gamble.

In that case he is in a position to take on risk that some others might not be. You could argue that what he is doing is wrong from some moral standpoint but look at it from a financial one.

Just remember to average in over a long enough time period.  I wouldn't agree on going all-in at any price.

$2500 is not a lot and I don't want to wait around for the price to keep going up. Also, I need the liquid cash for expenses. I only pocket like $300-$500 a month.

He is broke and leaching off of his parents, he is not in a unique financial position.

Going further into debt is not going to help that, particularly if that debt is financing a highly speculative "investment".

Seems fairly unethical.  But as a calculated risk I cannot say that I would reject it out-of-hand.  $15k worth of education isn't worth a whole lot these days, and win, lose, or draw, such an adventure would likely prove to have some educational value in and of itself. 

Besides, it should be possible to pay off the $15k going forward if you lose.  It's only one less cheap car.  It's been a _long_ time since I was involved with student loans, but it strikes me that you might want to be careful about ending up with a criminal record for fraud.  Also, you might need to win fairly big to account for the tax implications though that strikes me as quite possible (as does losing it all.)

Cool, call a random person on the internet names and make fun of their life situation which you know nothing about. Do you feel better about your own life? If you call me more names again, I will just block you. You are getting angry for no reason.

I asked what you would do for an investment, I don't care for your insults about the way I have to live my life. I am not the only one who is living with their parents, I personally know at least 5 people the same age at me with more than $50k in college debt who are stuck at home. They alll have Masters Degrees in various fields. Their parents are supporting them and they are having a hard time finding a job at a coffee shop.

How exactly do you suppose that I get a room where I live for more than I make? I literally CAN NOT afford the rent. I am going to be suck in my parents house for a long time to come no matter which way I cut it. Don't think that I am happy about it or that I want to be stuck there.

Why not simply let some stranger fuck your ass for money? Maybe you don't even have to leave the house, you could advertise online...
Money is so easy to make!

If you really believe in bitcoin in long term, you should also buy some mining equipment. If the price fall, difficulty fall, you get more coin by your mining rig, if price rise, you have earnings from the coins bought

If this is considered fraud I won't be doing it, I will be doing more research about that. I have a credit card, but 30% interest is a bitch...

As for the taxes, if I actually did win big I would hire an accountant and a lawyer. I don't want to fun afoul of the law, that is the last thing I need.

learn from the mistakes from others !
I thought of doing that when bitcoins were at 1$ and sometimes regretted and that was with a job and decent income.
No matter the rise in price, you can still manage to fuck it up big time. There are other factors in play and your emotions are going to mess around and screw you.
Have a plan for all scenarios and stick to the plan before the fan takes the hit. What are you going to do if bitcoins go back to 10$ losing 3/4 of your investment? Bitcoins will hit 100 and you will think how grandiose things are, then they will drop to 20-30 for a whole 18 months and you will have pressure from outside to sell those useless coins and that will frustrate you because you know it is a good investment, it is just you got the timing all wrong.
The price will drop at some point, albeit temporarily, prepare accordingly.

Avoid debt, be smart. Invest a little bit every month from your current income, at least 10% and you will sleep much better at night.
Seek to expand your income and increase your monthly purchase.

May miracles never cease...I agree with ~notig on something!

I thought about buying some rigs, but it seems like I would be taking on even more risk. BFL hasn't even delivered and the difficulty is variable. I would rather have the coins then be hoping to have the coins and being nervous that the difficulty rises to 300X it's current value.

Now this is why I posted my question. Thank you for your advice, I knew I was going to get the haters but I was willing to fight through it to see what the thoughtful people had to say.


I was doing this until I realized that I didn't have the cashflow I desired. The people around me are all willing to loan me the money, but I don't want them to take on the risk. If I make a mistake, it is my mistake and no one but me will pay for it.

I am expanding my income, I am even selling all of my stuff. I didn't need it anyway, I just read books, listen to music, program, work, and go to school. I can reasonably forsee myself making enough money to pay off this loan very soon. I just don't want to wait another year or two and have my purchasing power diminished.

Actually if you are in a low income tax bracket (something like below 32k in the US.. or maybe it's 36k.. somewhere in there) you don't pay taxes on capital gains. And bitcoin appreciation would be a capital gain I am pretty sure.

Lessons learned about financial markets can be hard. It doesn't seam like you learned such lessons already - buying in when the price is peaking on an all-time high is hardly clever.
However I am holding which is also kind of "buying"...

Seriously, can I quote you on that!? Lol!

That is fantastic if it is true. Now my next question would be: If I make more than $36k, in bitcoin value, does that mean I am still considered 'low income'?

This is true, but I think of it as if I am one of the people who bought in at the previous all time high. If I hold long enough I just might make it to the next one.

Or I could just have to pay a shit ton of money :P

the capital gains are added to whatever other income you had. So to avoid taxes you would just not sell more than 30k worth in a year...

Dear God please don't let prodhon show up...

I only want to sell $15k worth, the rest I keep. I plan on buying everything I can in btc. And like I said, if I make it I want to keep it. The tax man didn't take on this risk, why should he get a slice? If I had a million I wouldn’t care and I would be happy to pay my taxes like a good 1%er.

You know what? Ignore what I said...you should totally get that loan.

But, instead of putting it all into bitcoin, you should take some of it (like at least 30%-40%) and blow it on a shitload of hookers and coke. Then, in a drug-and-herpes fueled rampage, you should try and rob the liquor store across town (because, hey, you gotta come down, right?).  After shooting the cashier and ditching the police in a high-speed chase, you can torch the car and hitchhike back to mommy and daddy's house with a bag full of money and a six pack of PBR.

Problem solved.

Yeah, I'm pretty much a permabull here, and that was my first thought when reading this post...


Regardless, to the OP:

Read DeathAndTaxes' post a few times. I have no issue with people taking risks that they fully understand, but this is just fraudulent and stupid. As D&T points out, student loan debt never goes away. Pretty much all other types do. Credit card debt pretty readily (and that doesn't (directly) screw me, the taxpayer, when you default).

I know you're not planning on defaulting, but your financial position suggests a volatile situation where even *you* may not be aware of how you'll react to various developments. I question your resolve to hold for "at least 5-10 years" if, say, this current wave of adoption stagnates, maybe there's a high-profile hack or two, maybe Chuck Schumer gets some ugly bill to pass banning bitcoin and law-abiding merchants jump ship... Price slowly drops towards single digits, hashrate falls, no new positive news stories about bitcoin every week...

I would (and did in 2011) continue to accumulate in such a scenario, since none of the above indicates a long-term fundamentals change.....that's the luxury of not being leveraged. You, on the other hand, with no ability to even pay rent, would face, shall we say, a different set of incentives and considerations.

15k is not so much and guess what, if you don't gamble you ll never win.
Even at 36$, if you think spending your time and money in creating a business is less risky then i bet you never did.
but there is still a shit loads of people doing it, so why not a loan for bitcoin?
Be aware of the risk, you might loose it all, act accordingly.
Be prepared to live with your parents for a bit more and good luck with that!


And also the more bitcoin goes up the more those loan folks will appear it is not a sign of future colapse it is due to the fact that btc price is rising. But i agree the proportion of thoose against the proportion of regular hoarder or btc spender will have a direct impact on the eventual bubble pop.
Now i have no idea of this proportion...

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. This is the kind of negative post I am happy to receive.

Do you think that it is wiser to use a credit card for this kind of purchase despite the large fees involved? Like I said before I am not into running afoul of the law. I don't think that using a student loan in this manner is fraudulent, but I am not going forward unless I am sure.


This is actually my biggest concern and the only reason why I would change my bullish stance. But this is my biggest concern even WITHOUT taking out a loan though...

I have a tent...

But really, unless my parents lose their home (entirely possible) I will have a place to live. If they don't have their home I think I will have bigger problems than all of this, including the student loan. A refugee camp wouldn't sound outlandish at that point...


This is my problem like I said before. I get that there are risks involved and I have been thinking about this since before the uptick. I had been holding for 4-5 months at that point and then I thought the price hike was a bubble. So I waited... for 2 months. You all know what happened.

And it's not like I can convince you, but I am the kind of person who decides something and sticks with it like a mule. This has gotten me in trouble quite a few times...

I am actually counting on the adoption to stagnate, I don't believe that this rally can continue but I am also afraid that it will. This is what is driving me towards the loan. I would actually feel relief if it fell back to $15-$10 after I bought, below that not so much. My stop loss would hit me at $5 where I would crawl away with ~$2k left and I would be ~$10k in debt assuming this all happens tomorrow. If it did in a year or two I would just break even.

The truth is that none of us knows what will happen. This is life.

Edit: However, if the market crashed in a year or two when I have everything paid off, I probably wouldn’t pull a stop loss because I wouldn't stand to make anything off of it. The money would be gone either way, why the hell would I care? You can't have less than 0.

Holy fuck, did Atlas and Dank combine and mutate into a Super-moron?  This is seriously the dumbest fucking thing I have seen here in a while. 

I think this will come in handy here.

http://i45.tinypic.com/35n111t.png

Thanks proudhon. I was wondering what you were going to say. And yes, that is how I feel. Please be merciful because I know that this is a bad idea.

In all seriousness, have you thought about other alternatives?  Do you have family who would be willing to loan you money?  You should explore other options before you take this route.  Not only that, but you have probably already put yourself at risk by posting about these intentions, for the reasons DeathAndTaxes mentioned on the first page.

Then why are you doing it?  Look, I can't see into the future, it's possible that this could be the smartest thing you ever did.  But on the other hand, isn't the fact that you want to do this now, even when you say "I know it is stupid, but I want to do it anyway" evidence for the fact that you are letting your emotions make this decision for you?  I mean, I know there are arguments pro and contra, but what is actually making the decision for you?  Is it a greed-joy-induced high, or are you feeling sober? From my short personal experience in silver, I have learned that crazy gains can stop the bloodflow to your brains and end badly (I overleveraged too much thinking I could be out before the bubblepop, losing all my previous gains and then some).

My 2 cents, I am bullish on BTC, this could make you rich, but be honest to yourself about the true motivators and try to really think through (feel it) what speculative failure would do to your life.  Then decide if you think it is worth the risk.

Taking a huge risk that you know will either lead to extreme wealth or extreme poverty in your future isnt smart or dumb its just a personal decision about what YOU want out of life. But the sort of person who wants to risk everything for huge rewards shouldnt care what we think about it, the fact that you need our approval says to me that maybe you arnt cut out for this sort of thing. Do you think andrew carnagee or john rockerfeller or Cornelius vanderbilt give 1/1000th of a shit what anyone else thought about their hair brained schemes?

fortune favours the brave, bitcoin is a 20 trillion emerging market and that i find is conservative considering it may take the entire global economy in its wake,

http://scribblinginthestorageroom.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/tidalwave.jpg

If this is a loan that is 100% disposable income then I see no problem with trying it. If you run the numbers and do your due dilligence then I think it not a total bonehead move, not the smartest by any means, but maybe do-able.

http://rlv.zcache.com/just_dew_it_hat-p148164945608775464enxqz_400.jpg

just wait till bitcoin hits 200 sell a quater payback the loan and hold the rest

ill be buying even if a satoshi is 1 dollar

Since you know that this is stupid to the point of saying so in the title, I doubt you will do this, which is good.
If you were going to take out a loan to buy BTC (which isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world in and of itself), a student loan might just be the worst possible way to do so. The interest rates may be low, but it can't be discharged, and you will get assraped with something hard and sandpapery if .gov finds out. If you must leverage yourself onto a tightrope, at least get a conventional loan, from someone you know, a p2p lending site, a bank, whatever. If you don't qualify for one, you'll have to work on that.
I do know someone that max'd their credit cards to buy a while back...it worked out all right for them, but I can't recommend it due to the fact that I would rather not get bludgeoned to death by a hobo in a few months.
TL;DR Seriously? No.

LMAO  :D

I don't particularly care, I just think it is even dumber not to get input on my idea.

I am still sold on doing this, but I have learned a lot from all of the comments. This is exactly why I posted. I really didn't want to post, but I knew that there are people here who would be able to talk at least some measure of sense into my idea. So far it has been a wildly successful thread and learning experience.

well good luck to you! i can say with confidence that i am not at all the sort of person i described in my previous post. I would never do what you are doing. But i legitimately and truly hope that you become ridiculously wealthy.

Death by hobo... Not really the way I wanted to go :/

Thank you for the well wishes. I am going to need them.

This came into my mind this morning, I think it fits in here:

Really the only difference between this being really dumb and really smart is the timing. Doing it now is probably dumb. Waiting just a month or two until Bitcoin either comes back down or at least stabilizes enough to show it won't crash is much smarter. Even if it does drop down to $10 again, I am 100% confident it will get back to $40 eventually. The question is, do you want to make money while it's climbing back up, or waiting for a couple of years just to break even?

Personally, my strategy has been "dollar-cost-averaging." Look it up. I made money even despite the drop from $30 to $2 and the eventual rebound. Much less risky.

Ok, I slept on it and I have made a decision.

• The student loan is out, there are just too many reasons not to use a student loan despite the advantages. My loan will either be from a credit card or some kind of p2p loan.
• My loan size will be an easily manageable level, I will be taking out $6k. I can comfortably pay this amount back in under a year and I could probably hock all my stuff at a pawn shop if I really needed to get rid of it asap. This limits my stupidity/insanity to a reasonable level.

I would really like to be bolder, but I believe that Melbustus is right when he said:


I have the resolve, I just don't want market forces making decisions for me. I am not so stupid as to assume that the market will go up enough for me to pay this off in the next several months. I know my job will still be here in a year barring the collapse of the USD. And I know I have the assets to settle my debt quickly if I needed to. All of this money would be savings or expendable money anyway. I just want it now.

I plan on selling 50 of my coins to break even when the time comes. I will keep the rest.

Now I just need to figure out how to buy.... Leveraged or all in :/ Anybody know if we are going to crash soon? I would really like to get coins at a discount!  ;D

dooooo it!

I would already be rid of my car if it weren't for my job, it is my biggest expense and I can't get rid of it >:(

I don't smoke and I wouldn't get much for my tv. I have been purchasing coins in the manner you just set forth and I have done quite well for myself, I am just unhappy with the rate at which I am acquiring coins.

Thank you for all of the suggestions though!

The biggest problem you have here is that if you need to go all in, you need to do it right now, not next week.
You will be forced to invest during the time, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Good luck!

It's not just risky and retarded, it's irresponsible.  You will borrow some money for you to gamble with.  So in a nutshell, in case your plan fails, you intend to tell you creditor:  «  Sorry I lost everything, I can't pay you back. »   At some point in history some people would have broken your legs for that.



Just look at the 2011 crash and think again.

?? Did you even read this thread? I just posted how I have the ability to pay everything back. Why would I default and wreck my credit score? I don't want to do that.

I know! This is the real dilemma/gamble!  :-X

No, I confess I did not.    I just read the part when you said you would use your student loan to buy some bitcoins.

Stop being a mule or it's going to get you in trouble again.  What if your parents lose their house?  What if you lose your job?  I'm bullish on bitcoin, but this is a very volatile market.  Trust me, you won't be able to stomach it.  You need to listen to your own advice.  You're too smart to be doing this.  Going all in at an all time record high is not a wise move.  You're allowing the price action of the last two months to go to your head.  Just relax, think logically, and remember Murphy's Law.


This is the money you should be using to buy BTC with.  That will allow you to dollar cost average and take advantage of the dips.


So use your programming skills to earn BTC on the side.

I almost forgot! Thank you everyone for putting up with my hairbrained scheme. I am super happy to have received advice from so many prolific forum members and helpful investors. You have all given me exactly what I needed to go forward with my plan. I will only lose a year of my life if I fall flat on my face now :P

Your subconscious mind, your gut, your intuition, your soul, whatever you want to call it managed to slip itself in the title of the thread.
I am about to do something massivley stupid

You will save years of hard lessons the more you listen to that intuition. Learn from the mistakes of others and buy on a regular basis a set amount of $ in bitcoins per day/per month. As price drops, you will buy more coins and price rise they will all be worth more.
You will be much better emotionally. Do it for the rest of us :)

OP, I did something similar to what you are planning.


In early July 2011 I took $10,000 out of my 401k to buy bitcoins at a mere $14.5/BTC. I had confidence in the whole Bitcoin technology and everything that it stood for.

I watched as my investment dropped. I was able to make a few more bitcoin buying and selling on MtGox getting my total Bitcoin stash over 750. Then I learned about Bitcoinica which allowed you to trade on a 10:1 margin as well as allowing shorting. So I moved about 600 of my BTC over to Bitcoinica and started trading at a 10:1 margin. Almost every time I dumped a large trade in the market went the opposite direction and I lost my leveraged funds. After becoming suspicious with only about 150 BTC remaining I moved it back to MtGox and then into a private address for safe keeping. At this point the price was around $4/BTC, basically a value of around $1,000 remaining.

I had a reason for jumping in with my 401k. I had a $30,000 balloon payment on the lot of land next to my house due that next April. I figured that BTC would triple by then at least. Instead I was short, I had to cash out more from my 401k while I had to pay $3k in penalties and taxes on the original withdrawal.

Along with other factors, I took out so much from my 401k that I owe the IRS a lot of money this year. And the only way I could do that is to work in Afghanistan where I get paid very well. Now my life is hell.

Bitcoin was not the only reason, my wife and I made some poor financial choices including a failed business. But just tread carefully. You are young and you should be ok with just $6k.

But you have been warned enough so I will address your original question:

If you have a credit card with a decent limit, a good way to get BTC for credit is to sell something in demand at cost on BitMit and have it shipped to the buyer while paying for it with your card. There are some wholesale companies out there that allow drop shipping, if you find a decent one you could even make a few bitcents.

And I thought I was crazy for gambling 0.02 Bitcoins on Satoshi.

Oh, another tip. Instead of student loans, see if you can get a car loan instead. Good rates, and way fewer risks (though you may be restricted to actually having to buy a car, new or used). Back before the '08 crash it was fairly common for people to arbitrage, taking out low interest car loans and putting the money into high interest savings. They would only make 1% to 2% a year on this, but it was still something.

That is the correct way to take trade risk, to be fine with the worst case outcome.

Bitcoin's rise is NOT 'inevitable'.  There is still a 30% chance of Bitcoin failing in my opinion. There are a lot of things that can still feasibly go wrong, and probably whole lot of other things that nobody has even thought of.   Note of them would kill Bitcoin completely, but they would condemn Bitcoin as a niche currency trading at single figures.

  

I'd say the number is 42.

I would suggest taking out as much of a loan in all categories as you can get, selling all of your possessions, assets, etc. Then buying BTC and filing for bankruptcy. They can't take your Bitcoins, and they will have nothing else to take. Then restart your life with your billions in Bitcoins.

Bankruptcy doesn't clear all categories of loans. You'd have to restart your life in another country, and at that point there's no point mucking around with bankruptcy.

Taking out a loan with the intent to file bankruptcy is fraud. Not to mention that it is unethical even from a libertarian viewpoint.

this

we already got enough bloodsuckers in our economy. we don't need to breed even more.

taking risk and suffer the consequences is entrepreneurial, taking risk and dumping it on society is bankish.

All I can say is, great idea, try to get a fixed interest rate. The USD is going to tank some time in the next few years and your liability will evaporate.

It's true.  A lot of funding for education comes from my tax dollars, and I don't really wish to see them used in highly speculative bets.  OTOH, I don't want to see them used to kill kids in Afghanistan either, but there is a limited amount I can do about it.

In the particular case under discussion here, the more money pumped into the Bitcoin economy, the higher will go the BTC values and thus the bigger the potential for me to become personally enriched.  It's one place where my tax dollars could work for me personally, even if it is by a somewhat circuitous route.

I could also raid all of my neighbours houses for money and just not take a loan.

No thanks, I like freedom and good credit scores.

However you justify this to yourself, gambling with the borrowed money is stupid and factoring in default immoral. You'll keep the upside while your creditors can eat the downside?

You need to grow up. Stop leeching off your parents - haven't they done enough? Stop whining about how little you earn and how tough it is. Do something about it like an adult would. Something that isn't just another someone-else-will-pick it-up fantasy. Earn the money and then gamble it if you must.

The entrepreneurs that have been mentioned borrowed money to invest in themselves and their new ideas and their hard work. And usually the money was as equity - the funders had a stake in the success. Yet you are looking to stiff the people that have invested in you.

Thank you for the suggestion, I might just do this. In fact, if this is successful then I might keep doing it. Despite the haters, debt has its place in the world. I want to take risks which I am prepared to handle, I might lose and I might win. I just don't want to sit around and wait anymore I would rather learn lessons and work at understanding money better.

If this fails I will probably do the same thing again next year. I might try and start a business or I might try and invest in something else. I can always pay off my debt, but I cannot get ahead without it. It leverages the buying power I have and if I make enough back I am that much further ahead. If I lose my money, I was going to save it or buy something lame with it anyway. I could do that or I could try and make my money make more money for me. This way forces me to use the amount in a focused manner and learn from my mistakes.

It takes money to make money.

Already planning for a life of debt peonage, eh?  I guess you've had enough formal schooling already.

Again with the people saying I am going to default. Why in the world would I default? It is bad for me in every way. Stop reading the last few random posters and read what I am saying. How annoying.

I AM NOT GOING TO DEFAULT ON MY LOAN, BIG OR SMALL. READ THE THREAD. I CONSIDER IT IMMORAL TO DEFAULT AND NOT PAY MY DUES.


You don't know me, you don't know anything. You don't even know what you are saying. You are making up an image of me and you have no idea who I am or what my situation is. Why don't you read the thread and find out? And just like the last person who could not keep their tongue, I will just ignore you if you keep it up. I don't care what you have to say if you can't discuss it like a human. Even the most negative people were able to voice their opinions without name calling and I was able to learn from them.

Be civil or gtfo.

And what do you think I should do? I am always open to ideas.

I know what you are talking about but I am in disagreement with you. Just leave it at that.

If the loan you are taking is entirely repayable from your excess income in about 2 years, then there is no reason not to do it. Except, people tend to be anxious over something they cannot afford. The quality of life may deteriorate if you are among such people.

I heard that in the US people get student loans of up to $100k, and their education does not necessarily give them any edge in the marketplace. That is reckless. I wouldn't do it. Instead I started my business at the age of 20 and have never graduated (32). I also loaned €20k for stock speculation when I was 19 and that was a stupid idea because I did not know what I was doing.

It seems that $6k you're suggesting is quite conservative. Make a business plan for the whole operation in writing, and stick to it. Go for it!

Dude, what is it you need? ............ a log/thread of all the people who thought this was a bad idea, just to rub it in with hot sauce later.

.....meh......

He's probably going to learn more valuable lessons than those that most people learn by going to university. So I think at least morally it's fine.

nah. After the american empire has fallen, noone wants to learn english anymore. Mandarin and spanish teachers are going to be in demand.

You read my mind.

I really don't expect my loan to cause me undue stress, the original one yes, but not this little one. I just don't care if I lose it. That is my choice to make.


What do you need? I am learning loads and I have totally revamped my plan. And as for rubbing it in, have you considered that I would also be able to do a victory dance if I win? Go big or go home. You can only stand to win big if you stand to lose big. I could go bet it all on red, but I feel that this is a smarter plan.

I sense wishful thinking! The painful outlook of having bought a car with twice as many coins as it would cost now. I don't remember your numbers and I know it's not your kind of car, but couldn't you get that Porsche Cayman for the same amount of coins as your Prius has cost you a couple of weeks ago?

I know I'm being kind of mean here, but I'm sure you can take it the right way and I can't resist the bull talk today ;)

No need to be even native. My sister was offered 30 kTHB/mo, which, IIRC, buys you a cool lifestyle.

Why thank you, but I will be taking a smaller non-student loan ($6k) :) It will be easier for me to handle if I fail.

I also feel that I will learn more this way, my peers are doing terribly compared to me and they all have degrees! They can't pay their massive debts and they can't get a job to do so. I feel that my idea is much less risky than what they did, getting a degree with that much debt scares the crap out of me. Worst case scenario I learn that I suck at predicting markets or I get better at it when I try again :P You can't buy that experience with a degree.

Yeah, I also became a millionaire AFTER losing that 20k (and needed to work instead of studying partly because of the debt).

You already made the decision to do it. You're just scared. Happens to a lot of people.
Rule of thumb: Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

JET program.

TEFL is another one

My wife and I have different ways of seeing this.

I spent an amount of cash on buying GPUs two years ago when the Bitcoin was worth about £0.20 - my original set of computations suggested that, with the cost of mining kit and power and given the probable difficulty increases, I could make a small profit... at least get the mining kit paid for. (I still have the notes I made, and laugh at them now)

Bitcoin values rose, I bought more GPUs and currently have a good stash of Bitcoins and my mining kit and power are paid for.

My wife took a much simpler path. Some months back she draw £5000 from her savings account and bought Bitcoins. She now has Bitcoins worth approximately £17500.

Arguably, she is taking the bigger risk - if Bitcoin crashed to 0 tomorrow she would be light by £5000 and I would have some awesome machines for playing games or bragging about BOINC RAC.

Neither of us would have lost so much that our lives would be seriously damaged.

All this goes to show that there is no One Best Way to look at making some money with Bitcoins, but I might suggest that you make a plan which assumes that whatever Bitcoins you buy will drop in value to zero and be certain that whatever debt you take on is not going to seriously damage your lifestyle if this happens. Seriously - make a plan that assumes that the Bitcoin will be worth exactly Zero and that you still have to pay off borrowed fiat. Borrow only what you are comfortable with on that assumption and buy. I wish you luck - I personally think there will be some hairy moments, and the temptation to sell at the wrong time will be there, but that Bitcoins ultimately will do well.

I'll add to that. As far as plans go, just because you go "All in" with a loan doesn't necessary mean that you need to stay all in with the BTC, regardless of price fluctuations. There are a number of ways to lessen the risk such as steadily selling the BTC, regardles of price. Or setting selling points, both on the high and low side, to take profits or limiting the impact of a crash. I recommend figuring out your strategy early on for managing that risk so you won't have a problem sleeping at nice.

I made an identical post at about $20.

It's indeed a legend that during any speculative bubble, whenever the peak was close, we were hearing stories about some people having sold all their belongings and borrow tons of money to buy the speculation asset.   And indeed it was often interpreted as a sign that the crash was close.

One difference is that I'm not sure all these stories happened in the internet age.  We live in a sea of information and the story of the OP pops up very easily.  We would never have heard of him so fast, had we used only telephone and physical mail to communicate.

Now, does this thread nevertheless mean we are near a major correction back to 20$, 10$ or even less?    I don't know.   You tell me.

This thing doesn't exist.

MOST of the time, nay almost ALL the time, such an idea is pure stupidity; but bitcoin really is something never seen before.  Check out my poll:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150690.0

PS. just remember, it's not as if your money is going to disappear overnight. So the price might tank a little, and you will owe a little more. Bitcoin is not going to die overnight. Or to put it another way, sure it can die overnight, but that would be a catastrophe. It would be just as much of a catastrophe as your bank going bankrupt. It's a risk, but it is an educated risk.

My first entry into Bitcoin made utilizing student loan funds.  Was it risky?  Oh yes.  Was it worth it?   ;)

I think it is a hallucination that it would drop below $20 ever anymore. Nothing points to that outcome.

However, it may very well tank to $25-$35 area for several months, and I actually think it will, and should, do just that.

My prediction is conditional - if the price stays over $42 this weekend, then I don't think it will drop significantly any more after that. But if we see it fall below, the correction is here.

(I don't think this should affect long term plans such as taking loan to invest in BTC however...;)

Investing is little more than a fancy word for gambling. Borrowing money to gamble is a bad idea. You don't want to find yourself here in a few weeks asking for a loan to "win it all back". Remember only speculate with what you can loose.

This.

Dead wrong.

Taking on student loans to buy bitcoin only sounds stupid because you're not using the right terminology.

It's called a carry trade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carry_trade#Currency). Because of the long time between when you take the loan and when you are required to start making payments it might even be less risky than most carry trades in the forex market because the bitcoin exchange rate can drop suddenly without causing a cash flow problem, provided that it recovers before it's time to start making payments of course...

Yes, the nay sayers frame it in a worst case scenario where bitcoin suddenly goes to zero. 

I consider that scenario to be extreme enough that extreme responses are on the table as backup plans, such as relocating to a different country, but YMMV.

For people who didn't make their homework, yes, it is gambling.
For people who do their homework, it is never a gamble.

If you put money in a company knowing that they have a good product, you confirmed that their management is experienced, and checked that their sales team is sharper than a knife, then why on earth it would be a gamble? You project their potential earnings and weight them out with their the potential risks.
If you put money in this case, it is investing.

If you put money in a company you know nothing about, you don't know about their business model, don't know who they are or how experienced they are in whatever they claim to do. You don't know how much money your investment will make, and what are the potential risks.
Then that is plain suicide.
If you put money on it, certainly it will be a gamble. A stupid gamble.

And yes, if you put money based on Technical Analysis, it is also a stupid gamble.

How about  'the butterfly effect' and 'chaos theory' ?  No matter how prepared you are, you are never 100% sure.

Better not go outside today, might get run over.

That kind of questions makes me think that most people here are just high schoolers.
For you guys making any kind of investment is a gamble.

Why do I think you are a high schooler? You could have said, "how about risk and uncertainty", but no, you have to jump all the way to terms that are way out of topic, but common to find in youtube.

Only because of this you'll probably not stay alive.

Then we disagree. I have been investing for 25+ years. Financial instruments, stocks, angel investing, land, even art. I do my homework and it has paid well for me. However every investment came with risk and no promise of reward.
It's like horse racing, some horses are likely to better than others, but no horse is sure to win.

Doesn't this just come down to people having different definitions of gambling vs investing?  For some, investing means purchasing a productive asset to secure long term gains, whereas gambling means betting on a discrete outcome.  For those using those meanings, they are indeed very different things.  Investment still involves risk, of course.

Haha, did you do your homework on predicting I am a highschooler  ;) ?  You would have lost some money on that gamble.... I am definitely not, just tried to put a little bit of variety in my wording .  
When you say: if you do your homework, it is never a gamble, I read that as you saying there is no risk, while in truth 1) there is always risk and 2)most investment decisions are much like a poker game.  The best players/predictors will (probably) gain, those that are worse (or happily hold their fiat and don't realize they are playing) lose value.  (If we get a bit more into it, ok not all investing is a zero-sum game as it will have an effect on the economy, but you get the gist of what I am saying).

I suppose we are on the same page after all. You are probably right about me being a little to loose with the word gambling. 

No reason to put on a bicycle helmet or have insurance, chances of getting run over are slim, so they are zero.

I don't see how this can possibly go wrong.

No, you are still wrong.
Yes, there are risks, that's granted. But when I say investing, I mean actually knowing what the hell you are doing financially.
Popping to the stock market and purchasing some shares is not investing, that's gambling.
Jumping in to the purchase of shares without the bare minimum knowledge of fundamental analysis, is gambling.
Daytrading, is mostly gambling.

Gambling is speculating without any proof.
Investing is speculating based on information, and by making a very educated guess.

Follow the steps of value investing, and you will be on the right track on investing.
Otherwise, better stay away from any kind of markets.

PS: Then definitely college, undergrad ;)

OP, you should've done it before recent 200% price increases.

Haha, no  ;D

I know! XD

But I also believe we have a long way to go :)

Lose big, win big, I am down for this gamble. Roll them bones!

I thought about the same thing two years ago and luckily had a 2000 tuition refund from loans that went straight to a check. I can't see the price dropping more than $5-10 short term, but mid-long, ie 6-24 months, I believe it's up.

try 800%

What an idiot OP was...

 ;D

So did OP actually go through with it?

Would be funny if he did; and repaid the student loan in 20 days :D Bought a camaro with the change.

He said he took out a $6k non-student loan for it.  So, yeah... good call OP.

I think at this point (current price) I can pretty much pay off all my student loans and my husband's car as well, but somehow I feel like that would be a stupid thing to do  :P

;D

Better hold on to the rest of them and see where it goes!

You learned that from your experience with that electric car?

(*ahem* hybrid. It takes gas)

Why yes, yes I did. Had I been able to foretell the future, and had known Bitcoin would do something this absurd, I would've held THAT money till now, and bought a new car, plus paid off ALL our debts, including the house. Oh well, I'm not out yet  ;D (and bought a huge amount again at $47 when it seemed "stable" again)

Paying off debt is never a stupid thing to do. Cash out and pay off those loans early. Seriously.

Of course paying off debt can be a stupid thing to to do.

When an investment is gaining more (flash crashes included) per week than the annual interest charge on a loan you'd be far better off making minimum payments than paying down the loan.

Yeah, if that investment is GUARANTEED to grow in value more than the interest rate for the entire life of the loan, then yes, you'd be right.

However, no investment vehicle on the planet can make that guarantee, particularly not bitcoin. In reality, this whole thing could crash to pennies tomorrow...the wise financial decision is to pay off outstanding debt early.

Of course you should reward the predatory lenders that lobbied for the ridiculous rates they get. Or, you could hang on another few months and give the new developments a chance to drive up Bitcoin another order of magnitude.

No, you're right. Continuing to gamble is always a better option than paying off money you borrowed.  Fuck you for loaning me money to buy a car and get an education, I've got blackjack to pay!!!!!

Not to mention, if you are paying cut-throat rates on your loans, the best option financially is pay them off early to avoid paying a majority of those fees, correct?

Bank loans are gambles made by the banks. They've mitigated their risk by leveraging high interest rates against the majority of their borrowers that they prey upon. I'm not saying you shouldn't pay your bills, but why pay them back faster than you need to? If you don't get what Bitcoin is about, then I can see why you consider it a gamble.

Life's one big gamble.  The only way out is honorable death.  Then you'll get this final payout stuff yadda yadda, heaven or hell, that sort of thing.

Highest loan is 6.75% (student loans)

If i decide to pay off the debt, my one outcome is that I now have no debts, and no money. I have to live paycheck to paycheck, starting my savings account from scratch, even if I get to keep a bit more off every paycheck.

If i decide to keep the coins, I actually have three possible outcomes:
1) Bitcoin price keeps rising considerably - I make minimum payments on the debts, and come out way way way ahead.
2) Bitcoin stays at the rate of my debts, or stabilizes - I continue making minimum payments, and once I pay off my debts, my Bitcoin wealth, though not large, still remains.
3) Bitcoin price plummets - I may be able to sell off whatever coins I can before the value is gone to help pay down the debts, then continue making minimum payments on the debt while having to start building up my savings from scratch.

Now let's see which is the least risky option:
Let's say for some reason I lose a job or hit an economic hardship (get hit by some big expense).
If I have paid off my debt, there is only one outcome: I'm screwed.
If I have held onto my coins, there are three outcomes:
1) I have plenty of money, can still easily pay my debt payments with my BTC, and don't even have to worry
2) I have some money, and maybe should be worried, since my bitcoins may not last too long, but there is enough to cover my debt payments and sustain me.
3) I'm screwed.

So, if I sell, (the supposedly safe thing to do), if I get in trouble, there is one outcome: screwed.
If I don't sell (the supposedly risky, gambling option), there are three outcomes, and in only one of them I'm screwed.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I make the big bucks :D

except when you pay off your debt.. your monthly payments that have to be made go WAY down, making it a LOT easier to stay up to date if your income level drops for whatever reason.

You also forgot that if you start paying loans late, it will screw over your credit rating, something that is IMPOSSIBLE to happen if you have good credit...

Bottom line, whenever you get thrown a break, pay those debts down. Betting/Gambling is for suckers.

Your first option is still the best, most financially responsible one. Take that extra money you save from not making monthly payment to loans, save some of it, invest the rest wisely. Congratulations, you now have no debt, but you do have savings, and a retirement fund.  That is a good financial spot to be in.

Of your three other options, not all of them have the same probability of happening.  #3 is more likely than the other two, and is the one the puts you in the worst financial spot possible (debt, no savings, no retirement).  #1 or #2 could happen, but are not likely. Dont buy the hype, this bubble is going to pop eventually.

I'm in a similar situation. I've paid off all but my unsecured debts. Because of my previous obligations, I was unable to acquire as much coin as I wanted. However, I feel much more confident in Bitcoin than my country's willingness to honor it's debt to me in my old age when I am unable to work. They can garnish my debts from my non-existent social security that I've paid into all my life. Hell, even my children are a safer bet than anything provided by the state or any private institution. Besides, I don't think I am in the minority in the opinion in how the banks have operated the last couple of decades.

this times 1000. If you cash out now you will forever be a winner. You are already a winner, dont push your luck.

It's nice to see this kind of post on the bitcoin forums.

You are giving solid unbiased advice. Something I doubt you would see on the bitcoin subreddit.

Really? I feel exactly the opposite. (Reddit is no dream, but the forums are a cesspool).

You are never out of debt. Even when you die, there will be a debt to be paid by you. Money is just a numbers game, not an intelligence issue. As the billionaire Dale Andrew Carnegie said, "put all your eggs in one basket, and watch that basket."

Cash out to pay off debt means I'm at $0. Statements like "paying off debt is never a stupid thing to do" is the type of common sense thing that most of the country (USA) believes. Most of the country also reaches retirement age with savings of under $100k, and are dependent on Social Security or work way into the old age. And the type of stuff I had to make people unlearn when I worked as a personal financial analyst.
Rule #1 - have an emergency savings account (which would be gone if I use it to pay off debt)
Rule #2 - paying into a 4% debt is EXACTLY like paying into a 4% investment (seriously, calculate it out). So put your money into whatever has the highest interest, be it debt or investment (based on your risk tolerance).
People think debt is the worst thing ever, and should be gotten rid of first, and it's a really stupid misconception that needs to die, because when you reach 65, with no debts, and nothing but $100,000 to your name, you are most definitely NOT a winner.
Source - my goddamn financial analyst degree and years of experience with a ton of people who do what they think is common sense

It's ok Rassah, let them continue to be poor.  ;)

You know, I had a whole thing typed up as a response to this, but fuck it...it's less annoying to just move on.  When the bubble pops, I'll be sure to bump this thread... I tried to give you solid advice, but you ignored it with a shitty smug attitude. Enjoy the grinding poverty, man... You deserve it.

You gave me extremely risk-averse advice. The kind that I mentioned is one of the reasons so much of our country's old people depend on social programs to survive. The difference between your advice and mine is yours comes from the popularly accepted "common sense," and mine is what wealthy people (millionaires) do and recommend (and often write about). Also, although I do have a stop-loss at $50, that doesn't mean the cash is going anywhere but back into BTC again when it bottoms. Also, please make sure to bump it again when it comes back up to $75 and surpasses it to $100 and above. Or do you believe that bitcoin will crash and never come back up again, like it did when it crashed from $30 to $2 a few years ago?

Strong risk-taking combined with skill and luck results in millionaires.
Strong risk-taking combined with stupidity or very bad luck results in hobos or window-jumpers (unless you know how to game the system, then it results in a banker).

That's my simple take on it.

Guys like evolve called everyone participating in the dot com bubble an idiot. Unfortunately people started saying this in 1995.. and their shorts got buried for another 5 years until the music finally stopped.

Repeat in the housing bubble.. and probably now in the US treasury bubble, which will no doubt pop someday but that day could be 5 years away.

Now hes been saying bitcoin is a bubble since $20 or whatever it was.

Well he'll always be right eventually.. however, in all those examples above there were thousands of 'idiots' who saw the trend, rode it for years and made millions from it. Then one day it ended and im sure many lost some money.. but alot of them came out hugely ahead. Unlike the spineless, mostly broke internet armchair economists who were 'right all along'.  ;D

Some opportunities are just so huge and you just happen to be in the right place at the right time in history... I believe we are at one such time now and to choose this time to be conservative if you have a strong belief in the system and have done your research is truly idiotic...

If you want to be a billionaire someday than carnage is right, definitely do put all of your eggs in one basket. However many of us are more interested in establishing a nice little nest egg than conquering the universe. Remember 1000 other highly competent people tried the exact same thing as carnage, and none of their names are remembered because in most cases they simply wernt as lucky.

+1
Nice post

Assuming the OP made his purchases relatively soon after posting here, he's done pretty well already. With no payments due for a few years at least, it makes leveraged BTC purchases using student loans look like a good deal.

:)

my first Bitcoin purchase was the result of a University tuition refund from taking excess loans. tybg

No, it still looks very very stupid.

If worst comes to worst they can leave the country, and their bad debts will just be another drop in the ocean of the malpurposed and unrepayable government-backed student loan debts.
http://reason.com/archives/2013/06/21/easy-credit-is-inflating-a-massive-stude

If he bought in March, I think he's ahead by quite a bit.  Hope you are putting your coins to good use and earn some interest on them.

A smart person employing this strategy should make sure he's bilingual before graduating.

I really like this gamble by the OP, if he put $15k in March at around $50 (before Mar 17, BTC's $50 or below), he has 300 BTC.  If he put into coinlenders, graet.loan, etc. (spread out the risk and leave some uninvested), he should get about at least 16%.  Let's factor in defaults and suppose he gets 12%, 5 years from now, that will comes to 1.12 ^ 5 = 1.762 * 300 = 528.7 BTC.  I think it's unlikely BTC will be at the same level 5 years from now - either it'll grow many times (possibly worth more than $1000 USD or even more) or it'll be a bust.  If BTC's is > $1000 USD, he makes out with half a million, extremely well for any graduates.  If it becomes a bust, he'll pile on about $21k more debt assuming interest on loan is 7%.  In the scenario that BTC just languish at current rate, he'll still be about $30k ahead.

that's what i concluded.

I did something similar kind of similar in my senior year in college.  But then it wasn't done against a student loan so I've the option of going bankrupt and wipe it off my slate if it went bad - of course, it wasn't for a 30 bagger and half a million, it was just a chance for a 3 bagger.  Go big and aim for something potentially life changing!!  I wish the OP luck!!!  Will check back 5 years from now!!

some of us are young, we can afford these risks :)

Its posts like this that make me want to start a BTC-based company or something.

Some people are willing to risk their entirely livelyhood on this thing and I think I'm a daredevil because I own more BTC than XIV.

Life is a BIG risk, so if you´re not ready to take it - leave it!

XIV is far better than traditional stock index fund!!!  Really glad to see some sophistication in finance

When Bernanke spoke, I felt the exact opposite of sophisticated.

Now i'm feeling rather sophisticated, however :) That contango just keeps on rollin'

Many people underestimate what Bitcoin represents - I'm not exaggerating in my signature.

Sure, but I doubt that buying Bitcoins really aids bitcoin in that purpose.

Otherwise you get into silly situations like if you sell bitcoin to re-buy more, you are helping Bitcoin, etc...

I've helped more than 100 people (https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/Justus_Ranvier/) buy Bitcoins for the first time by reselling Bitcoins.

Most of them probably would have bought eventually, but more than one has told me they only bought because there was somebody in their area with a good reputation that was willing to meet them and explain the process.

Maybe that's not what you meant, but it certainly is one way to help adoption of the currency grow.

Did the OP invest back in March?

No, I meant something like "i'm going to sell my Bitcoins on Gox, so that through some method (like the one in my sig *blatant plug*) I can obtain more Bitcoins later, and thus by obtaining more bitcoins I have effectively forced the purchase of more bitcoins, driving the price up, helping bitcoin."

Thats why I dont consider causing a price increase like the OP is doing to be necessarily "helping bitcoin". (I'm not saying its hurting bitcoin, just that its not really helping it as you imply).

Still remember this impressive thread, did you invest based on your plan OP? Success?

check out this poll:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=300021.msg3216179#msg3216179



indeed very interesting thread.

I did invest literally all of my money which wasn't paying my bills, and unfortunately I was unable to secure any bitcoins with credit, I still made out like a bandit and I just about quintupled my investment. I cashed a portion of my funds out at ~$170 and the rest is just hanging on for the ride  ;)

I had an unfortunate problem with miicard right when bitcoin jumped from ~$40 to ~$55 and I was sure that the end was not far off. So I let the cash ride and hoped for the best.

I am bummed that I was unable to secure leverage but I am happy that I have done so well :)

I'm curious about your issue with miicard.  The thing is pretty scary, but I did sign up using a bank account without a lot of funds on time.  They pestered me when I closed the account so it seems like the do ping one's bank account from time to time.