I am about to do something massivley stupid

[dancingnancy]

Just remember to average in over a long enough time period.  I wouldn't agree on going all-in at any price.

[XxionxX]

i dont get it if you have money saved up... why would you take out a loan?

$2500 is not a lot and I don't want to wait around for the price to keep going up. Also, I need the liquid cash for expenses. I only pocket like $300-$500 a month.

[evolve]

In that case he is in a position to take on risk that some others might not be. You could argue that what he is doing is wrong from some moral standpoint but look at it from a financial one.

He is broke and leaching off of his parents, he is not in a unique financial position.

Going further into debt is not going to help that, particularly if that debt is financing a highly speculative "investment".

[tvbcof]

Seems fairly unethical.  But as a calculated risk I cannot say that I would reject it out-of-hand.  $15k worth of education isn't worth a whole lot these days, and win, lose, or draw, such an adventure would likely prove to have some educational value in and of itself. 

Besides, it should be possible to pay off the $15k going forward if you lose.  It's only one less cheap car.  It's been a _long_ time since I was involved with student loans, but it strikes me that you might want to be careful about ending up with a criminal record for fraud.  Also, you might need to win fairly big to account for the tax implications though that strikes me as quite possible (as does losing it all.)

[XxionxX]

Wait, what?

You are 26, live with your parents, and don't pay rent? Holy shit, you are the epitome of a man-child.

And now you want to take out a loan to invest in a speculative internet currency with the relative risk level of a penny stock.....and you see nothing wrong with this?

What. The. Fuck.

Cool, call a random person on the internet names and make fun of their life situation which you know nothing about. Do you feel better about your own life? If you call me more names again, I will just block you. You are getting angry for no reason.

I asked what you would do for an investment, I don't care for your insults about the way I have to live my life. I am not the only one who is living with their parents, I personally know at least 5 people the same age at me with more than $50k in college debt who are stuck at home. They alll have Masters Degrees in various fields. Their parents are supporting them and they are having a hard time finding a job at a coffee shop.

How exactly do you suppose that I get a room where I live for more than I make? I literally CAN NOT afford the rent. I am going to be suck in my parents house for a long time to come no matter which way I cut it. Don't think that I am happy about it or that I want to be stuck there.

[el_rlee]

Thailand's not so bad

I hear there are job opportunities all over the world for native speakers to teach English...

Why not simply let some stranger fuck your ass for money? Maybe you don't even have to leave the house, you could advertise online...
Money is so easy to make!

[johnyj]

If you really believe in bitcoin in long term, you should also buy some mining equipment. If the price fall, difficulty fall, you get more coin by your mining rig, if price rise, you have earnings from the coins bought

[XxionxX]

Seems fairly unethical.  But as a calculated risk I cannot say that I would reject it out-of-hand.  $15k worth of education isn't worth a whole lot these days, and win, lose, or draw, such an adventure would likely prove to have some educational value in and of itself. 

Besides, it should be possible to pay off the $15k going forward if you lose.  It's only one less cheap car.  It's been a _long_ time since I was involved with student loans, but it strikes me that you might want to be careful about ending up with a criminal record for fraud.  Also, you might need to win fairly big to account for the tax implications though that strikes me as quite possible (as does losing it all.)

If this is considered fraud I won't be doing it, I will be doing more research about that. I have a credit card, but 30% interest is a bitch...

As for the taxes, if I actually did win big I would hire an accountant and a lawyer. I don't want to fun afoul of the law, that is the last thing I need.

[bitdragon]

learn from the mistakes from others !
I thought of doing that when bitcoins were at 1$ and sometimes regretted and that was with a job and decent income.
No matter the rise in price, you can still manage to fuck it up big time. There are other factors in play and your emotions are going to mess around and screw you.
Have a plan for all scenarios and stick to the plan before the fan takes the hit. What are you going to do if bitcoins go back to 10$ losing 3/4 of your investment? Bitcoins will hit 100 and you will think how grandiose things are, then they will drop to 20-30 for a whole 18 months and you will have pressure from outside to sell those useless coins and that will frustrate you because you know it is a good investment, it is just you got the timing all wrong.
The price will drop at some point, albeit temporarily, prepare accordingly.

Avoid debt, be smart. Invest a little bit every month from your current income, at least 10% and you will sleep much better at night.
Seek to expand your income and increase your monthly purchase.

[tvbcof]

In that case he is in a position to take on risk that some others might not be. You could argue that what he is doing is wrong from some moral standpoint but look at it from a financial one.

May miracles never cease...I agree with ~notig on something!

[XxionxX]

If you really believe in bitcoin in long term, you should also buy some mining equipment. If the price fall, difficulty fall, you get more coin by your mining rig, if price rise, you have earnings from the coins bought

I thought about buying some rigs, but it seems like I would be taking on even more risk. BFL hasn't even delivered and the difficulty is variable. I would rather have the coins then be hoping to have the coins and being nervous that the difficulty rises to 300X it's current value.

[XxionxX]

learn from the mistakes from others !
I thought of doing that when bitcoins were at 1$ and sometimes regretted and that was with a job and decent income.
No matter the rise in price, you can still manage to fuck it up big time. There are other factors in play and your emotions are going to mess around and screw you.
Have a plan for all scenarios and stick to the plan before the fan takes the hit. What are you going to do if bitcoins go back to 10$ losing 3/4 of your investment? Bitcoins will hit 100 and you will think how grandiose things are, then they will drop to 20-30 for a whole 18 months and you will have pressure from outside to sell those useless coins and that will frustrate you because you know it is a good investment, it is just you got the timing all wrong.
The price will drop at some point, albeit temporarily, prepare accordingly.

Avoid debt, be smart. Invest a little bit every month from your current income, at least 10% and you will sleep much better at night.
Seek to expand your income and increase your monthly purchase.

Now this is why I posted my question. Thank you for your advice, I knew I was going to get the haters but I was willing to fight through it to see what the thoughtful people had to say.

Avoid debt, be smart. Invest a little bit every month from your current income, at least 10% and you will sleep much better at night.
Seek to expand your income and increase your monthly purchase.

I was doing this until I realized that I didn't have the cashflow I desired. The people around me are all willing to loan me the money, but I don't want them to take on the risk. If I make a mistake, it is my mistake and no one but me will pay for it.

I am expanding my income, I am even selling all of my stuff. I didn't need it anyway, I just read books, listen to music, program, work, and go to school. I can reasonably forsee myself making enough money to pay off this loan very soon. I just don't want to wait another year or two and have my purchasing power diminished.

[notig]

Actually if you are in a low income tax bracket (something like below 32k in the US.. or maybe it's 36k.. somewhere in there) you don't pay taxes on capital gains. And bitcoin appreciation would be a capital gain I am pretty sure.

[el_rlee]

Lessons learned about financial markets can be hard. It doesn't seam like you learned such lessons already - buying in when the price is peaking on an all-time high is hardly clever.
However I am holding which is also kind of "buying"...

[XxionxX]

Actually if you are in a low income tax bracket (something like below 32k in the US.. or maybe it's 36k.. somewhere in there) you don't pay taxes on capital gains. And bitcoin appreciation would be a capital gain I am pretty sure.

Seriously, can I quote you on that!? Lol!

That is fantastic if it is true. Now my next question would be: If I make more than $36k, in bitcoin value, does that mean I am still considered 'low income'?

[XxionxX]

Lessons learned about financial markets can be hard. It doesn't seam like you learned such lessons already - buying in when the price is peaking on an all-time high is hardly clever.
However I am holding which is also kind of "buying"...

This is true, but I think of it as if I am one of the people who bought in at the previous all time high. If I hold long enough I just might make it to the next one.

Or I could just have to pay a shit ton of money

[notig]

Actually if you are in a low income tax bracket (something like below 32k in the US.. or maybe it's 36k.. somewhere in there) you don't pay taxes on capital gains. And bitcoin appreciation would be a capital gain I am pretty sure.

Seriously, can I quote you on that!? Lol!

That is fantastic if it is true. Now my next question would be: If I make more than $36k, in bitcoin value, does that mean I am still considered 'low income'?

the capital gains are added to whatever other income you had. So to avoid taxes you would just not sell more than 30k worth in a year...

[XxionxX]

Dear God please don't let prodhon show up...

[XxionxX]

Actually if you are in a low income tax bracket (something like below 32k in the US.. or maybe it's 36k.. somewhere in there) you don't pay taxes on capital gains. And bitcoin appreciation would be a capital gain I am pretty sure.

Seriously, can I quote you on that!? Lol!

That is fantastic if it is true. Now my next question would be: If I make more than $36k, in bitcoin value, does that mean I am still considered 'low income'?

the capital gains are added to whatever other income you had. So to avoid taxes you would just not sell more than 30k worth in a year...

I only want to sell $15k worth, the rest I keep. I plan on buying everything I can in btc. And like I said, if I make it I want to keep it. The tax man didn't take on this risk, why should he get a slice? If I had a million I wouldn’t care and I would be happy to pay my taxes like a good 1%er.

[evolve]

You know what? Ignore what I said...you should totally get that loan.

But, instead of putting it all into bitcoin, you should take some of it (like at least 30%-40%) and blow it on a shitload of hookers and coke. Then, in a drug-and-herpes fueled rampage, you should try and rob the liquor store across town (because, hey, you gotta come down, right?).  After shooting the cashier and ditching the police in a high-speed chase, you can torch the car and hitchhike back to mommy and daddy's house with a bag full of money and a six pack of PBR.

Problem solved.