I am about to do something massivley stupid

[Rassah]

I think at this point (current price) I can pretty much pay off all my student loans and my husband's car as well, but somehow I feel like that would be a stupid thing to do  

Paying off debt is never a stupid thing to do. Cash out and pay off those loans early. Seriously.

this times 1000. If you cash out now you will forever be a winner. You are already a winner, dont push your luck.

Cash out to pay off debt means I'm at $0. Statements like "paying off debt is never a stupid thing to do" is the type of common sense thing that most of the country (USA) believes. Most of the country also reaches retirement age with savings of under $100k, and are dependent on Social Security or work way into the old age. And the type of stuff I had to make people unlearn when I worked as a personal financial analyst.
Rule #1 - have an emergency savings account (which would be gone if I use it to pay off debt)
Rule #2 - paying into a 4% debt I'd EXACTLY like paying into a 4% investment (seriously, calculate it out). So put your money into whatever has the highest interest, be it debt or investment (based on your risk tolerance).
People think debt is the worst thing ever, and should be gotten rid of first, and it's a really stupid misconception that needs to die, because when you reach 65, with no debts, and nothing but $100,000 to your name, you are most definitely NOT a winner.
Source - my goddamn financial analyst degree and years of experience with a ton of people who do what they think is common sense

You know, I had a whole thing typed up as a response to this, but fuck it...it's less annoying to just move on.  When the bubble pops, I'll be sure to bump this thread... I tried to give you solid advice, but you ignored it with a shitty smug attitude. Enjoy the grinding poverty, man... You deserve it.

You gave me extremely risk-averse advice. The kind that I mentioned is one of the reasons so much of our country's old people depend on social programs to survive. The difference between your advice and mine is yours comes from the popularly accepted "common sense," and mine is what wealthy people (millionaires) do and recommend (and often write about). Also, although I do have a stop-loss at $50, that doesn't mean the cash is going anywhere but back into BTC again when it bottoms. Also, please make sure to bump it again when it comes back up to $75 and surpasses it to $100 and above. Or do you believe that bitcoin will crash and never come back up again, like it did when it crashed from $30 to $2 a few years ago?

[Spaceman_Spiff]

You gave me extremely risk-averse advice. The kind that I mentioned is one of the reasons so much of our country's old people depend on social programs to survive. The difference between your advice and mine is yours comes from the popularly accepted "common sense," and mine is what wealthy people (millionaires) do and recommend (and often write about).

Strong risk-taking combined with skill and luck results in millionaires.
Strong risk-taking combined with stupidity or very bad luck results in hobos or window-jumpers (unless you know how to game the system, then it results in a banker).

That's my simple take on it.

[BlackBison]

Guys like evolve called everyone participating in the dot com bubble an idiot. Unfortunately people started saying this in 1995.. and their shorts got buried for another 5 years until the music finally stopped.

Repeat in the housing bubble.. and probably now in the US treasury bubble, which will no doubt pop someday but that day could be 5 years away.

Now hes been saying bitcoin is a bubble since $20 or whatever it was.

Well he'll always be right eventually.. however, in all those examples above there were thousands of 'idiots' who saw the trend, rode it for years and made millions from it. Then one day it ended and im sure many lost some money.. but alot of them came out hugely ahead. Unlike the spineless, mostly broke internet armchair economists who were 'right all along'.  

Some opportunities are just so huge and you just happen to be in the right place at the right time in history... I believe we are at one such time now and to choose this time to be conservative if you have a strong belief in the system and have done your research is truly idiotic...

[Anon136]

I think at this point (current price) I can pretty much pay off all my student loans and my husband's car as well, but somehow I feel like that would be a stupid thing to do  

Paying off debt is never a stupid thing to do. Cash out and pay off those loans early. Seriously.

this times 1000. If you cash out now you will forever be a winner. You are already a winner, dont push your luck.

It's nice to see this kind of post on the bitcoin forums.

You are giving solid unbiased advice. Something I doubt you would see on the bitcoin subreddit.

You are never out of debt. Even when you die, there will be a debt to be paid by you. Money is just a numbers game, not an intelligence issue. As the billionaire Dale Andrew Carnegie said, "put all your eggs in one basket, and watch that basket."

If you want to be a billionaire someday than carnage is right, definitely do put all of your eggs in one basket. However many of us are more interested in establishing a nice little nest egg than conquering the universe. Remember 1000 other highly competent people tried the exact same thing as carnage, and none of their names are remembered because in most cases they simply wernt as lucky.

[lebing]

Guys like evolve called everyone participating in the dot com bubble an idiot. Unfortunately people started saying this in 1995.. and their shorts got buried for another 5 years until the music finally stopped.

Repeat in the housing bubble.. and probably now in the US treasury bubble, which will no doubt pop someday but that day could be 5 years away.

Now hes been saying bitcoin is a bubble since $20 or whatever it was.

Well he'll always be right eventually.. however, in all those examples above there were thousands of 'idiots' who saw the trend, rode it for years and made millions from it. Then one day it ended and im sure many lost some money.. but alot of them came out hugely ahead. Unlike the spineless, mostly broke internet armchair economists who were 'right all along'.  

Some opportunities are just so huge and you just happen to be in the right place at the right time in history... I believe we are at one such time now and to choose this time to be conservative if you have a strong belief in the system and have done your research is truly idiotic...

+1
Nice post

[justusranvier]

Assuming the OP made his purchases relatively soon after posting here, he's done pretty well already. With no payments due for a few years at least, it makes leveraged BTC purchases using student loans look like a good deal.

[vokain]

Assuming the OP made his purchases relatively soon after posting here, he's done pretty well already. With no payments due for a few years at least, it makes leveraged BTC purchases using student loans look like a good deal.

my first Bitcoin purchase was the result of a University tuition refund from taking excess loans. tybg

[evolve]

Assuming the OP made his purchases relatively soon after posting here, he's done pretty well already. With no payments due for a few years at least, it makes leveraged BTC purchases using student loans look like a good deal.

No, it still looks very very stupid.

[vokain]

Assuming the OP made his purchases relatively soon after posting here, he's done pretty well already. With no payments due for a few years at least, it makes leveraged BTC purchases using student loans look like a good deal.

No, it still looks very very stupid.

If worst comes to worst they can leave the country, and their bad debts will just be another drop in the ocean of the malpurposed and unrepayable government-backed student loan debts.
http://reason.com/archives/2013/06/21/easy-credit-is-inflating-a-massive-stude

[gog1]

If he bought in March, I think he's ahead by quite a bit.  Hope you are putting your coins to good use and earn some interest on them.

[justusranvier]

If worst comes to worst they can leave the country, and their bad debts will just be another drop in the ocean of the malpurposed and unrepayable government-backed student loan debts.

A smart person employing this strategy should make sure he's bilingual before graduating.

[gog1]

I really like this gamble by the OP, if he put $15k in March at around $50 (before Mar 17, BTC's $50 or below), he has 300 BTC.  If he put into coinlenders, graet.loan, etc. (spread out the risk and leave some uninvested), he should get about at least 16%.  Let's factor in defaults and suppose he gets 12%, 5 years from now, that will comes to 1.12 ^ 5 = 1.762 * 300 = 528.7 BTC.  I think it's unlikely BTC will be at the same level 5 years from now - either it'll grow many times (possibly worth more than $1000 USD or even more) or it'll be a bust.  If BTC's is > $1000 USD, he makes out with half a million, extremely well for any graduates.  If it becomes a bust, he'll pile on about $21k more debt assuming interest on loan is 7%.  In the scenario that BTC just languish at current rate, he'll still be about $30k ahead.

[vokain]

I really like this gamble by the OP, if he put $15k in March at around $50 (before Mar 17, BTC's $50 or below), he has 300 BTC.  If he put into coinlenders, graet.loan, etc. (spread out the risk and leave some uninvested), he should get about at least 16%.  Let's factor in defaults and suppose he gets 12%, 5 years from now, that will comes to 1.12 ^ 5 = 1.762 * 300 = 528.7 BTC.  I think it's unlikely BTC will be at the same level 5 years from now - either it'll grow many times (possibly worth more than $1000 USD or even more) or it'll be a bust.  If BTC's is > $1000 USD, he makes out with half a million, extremely well for any graduates.  If it becomes a bust, he'll pile on about $21k more debt assuming interest on loan is 7%.  In the scenario that BTC just languish at current rate, he'll still be about $30k ahead.

that's what i concluded.

[gog1]

I really like this gamble by the OP, if he put $15k in March at around $50 (before Mar 17, BTC's $50 or below), he has 300 BTC.  If he put into coinlenders, graet.loan, etc. (spread out the risk and leave some uninvested), he should get about at least 16%.  Let's factor in defaults and suppose he gets 12%, 5 years from now, that will comes to 1.12 ^ 5 = 1.762 * 300 = 528.7 BTC.  I think it's unlikely BTC will be at the same level 5 years from now - either it'll grow many times (possibly worth more than $1000 USD or even more) or it'll be a bust.  If BTC's is > $1000 USD, he makes out with half a million, extremely well for any graduates.  If it becomes a bust, he'll pile on about $21k more debt assuming interest on loan is 7%.  In the scenario that BTC just languish at current rate, he'll still be about $30k ahead.

that's what i concluded.

I did something similar kind of similar in my senior year in college.  But then it wasn't done against a student loan so I've the option of going bankrupt and wipe it off my slate if it went bad - of course, it wasn't for a 30 bagger and half a million, it was just a chance for a 3 bagger.  Go big and aim for something potentially life changing!!  I wish the OP luck!!!  Will check back 5 years from now!!

[vokain]

I really like this gamble by the OP, if he put $15k in March at around $50 (before Mar 17, BTC's $50 or below), he has 300 BTC.  If he put into coinlenders, graet.loan, etc. (spread out the risk and leave some uninvested), he should get about at least 16%.  Let's factor in defaults and suppose he gets 12%, 5 years from now, that will comes to 1.12 ^ 5 = 1.762 * 300 = 528.7 BTC.  I think it's unlikely BTC will be at the same level 5 years from now - either it'll grow many times (possibly worth more than $1000 USD or even more) or it'll be a bust.  If BTC's is > $1000 USD, he makes out with half a million, extremely well for any graduates.  If it becomes a bust, he'll pile on about $21k more debt assuming interest on loan is 7%.  In the scenario that BTC just languish at current rate, he'll still be about $30k ahead.

that's what i concluded.

I did something similar kind of similar in my senior year in college.  But then it wasn't done against a student loan so I've the option of going bankrupt and wipe it off my slate if it went bad - of course, it wasn't for a 30 bagger and half a million, it was just a chance for a 3 bagger.  Go big and aim for something potentially life changing!!  I wish the OP luck!!!  Will check back 5 years from now!!

some of us are young, we can afford these risks

[Kazu]

Its posts like this that make me want to start a BTC-based company or something.

Some people are willing to risk their entirely livelyhood on this thing and I think I'm a daredevil because I own more BTC than XIV.

[GodfatherBond]

Hello fellow bitcoin users.

I have been watching bitcoin over the past 2 years, I 'bought in' about 6 months ago. Over the months I have watched bitcoin developments and feel strongly about bitcoins future. Barring some massive hole found in the code, or something disastrous happening worldwide which might make people feel that bitcoin is terribly insecure, I feel that bitcoin's rise is inevitable.

Now comes the stupid part. I am thinking about taking on a $10k-$15k student loan to purchase bitcoins.

No, I don't need you to tell me why this is a retarded idea or why this is massively risky. I understand the risks quite well and I think I have lost my marbles. I have determined that I would rather pay off this loan than miss this investment opportunity. I know that if this fails I will kick myself forever, but I am young (26) and I can recover.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any loan services which might be good for this purpose, or things I should know about making such a large purchase. Please keep the doom and gloom to yourself, I know this is stupid but I have made my decision. I need ideas and help.

I plan to be holding for at least 5-10 years, and I would be willing to part with about 50 of my coins for $15k to pay off my loan and break even (a.k.a. a price of ~$300 a coin). I will be holding my breath until then. I plan on doing this in such a way that I do no incur Forex taxes on my 'cash out'. And I would probably end up having someone pay off my loan for the trade of coins below market rate. I would probably end up paying for everything I need in bitcoins as I see no reason to exchange my money back out and let 'the man' take a cut of my profit. This is my super scary gamble and I want to keep my reward if I get it.

Thank you very much for any positive input. And I hope you have a great day.

Edit:

Ok, I slept on it and I have made a decision.

• The student loan is out, there are just too many reasons not to use a student loan despite the advantages. My loan will either be from a credit card or some kind of p2p loan.
• My loan size will be an easily manageable level, I will be taking out $6k. I can comfortably pay this amount back in under a year and I could probably hock all my stuff at a pawn shop if I really needed to get rid of it asap. This limits my stupidity/insanity to a reasonable level.

I would really like to be bolder, but I believe that Melbustus is right when he said:

I know you're not planning on defaulting, but your financial position suggests a volatile situation where even *you* may not be aware of how you'll react to various developments.

I have the resolve, I just don't want market forces making decisions for me. I am not so stupid as to assume that the market will go up enough for me to pay this off in the next several months. I know my job will still be here in a year barring the collapse of the USD. And I know I have the assets to settle my debt quickly if I needed to. All of this money would be savings or expendable money anyway. I just want it now.

I plan on selling 50 of my coins to break even when the time comes. I will keep the rest.

Now I just need to figure out how to buy.... Leveraged or all in :/ Anybody know if we are going to crash soon? I would really like to get coins at a discount! 

Life is a BIG risk, so if you´re not ready to take it - leave it!

[gog1]

Its posts like this that make me want to start a BTC-based company or something.

Some people are willing to risk their entirely livelyhood on this thing and I think I'm a daredevil because I own more BTC than XIV.

XIV is far better than traditional stock index fund!!!  Really glad to see some sophistication in finance

[Kazu]

Its posts like this that make me want to start a BTC-based company or something.

Some people are willing to risk their entirely livelyhood on this thing and I think I'm a daredevil because I own more BTC than XIV.

XIV is far better than traditional stock index fund!!!  Really glad to see some sophistication in finance

When Bernanke spoke, I felt the exact opposite of sophisticated.

Now i'm feeling rather sophisticated, however That contango just keeps on rollin'

[justusranvier]

Some people are willing to risk their entirely livelyhood on this thing and I think I'm a daredevil because I own more BTC than XIV.

Many people underestimate what Bitcoin represents - I'm not exaggerating in my signature.