Bitcoin Forum

Is smooth - core member and one of the lead community managers of Monero - a hypocrite?

Lots miners mine most worth coin to mine and dump it to buy Monero or BTC.

What to mine you can find here: http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency

G'day Febo. Wrong thread or on topic answer?

You dont know what you quoted/asked?

Miners mine what is most efficient for their electricity spent. Noone or rare mine BTC, but most hold BTC after they dump what they mined.

stop feeding the sock puppet troll

Please quote me properly as it explains I appreciate smooth:


OP please correct your spelling of 'hypocrite' as you currently have 'hyprocite'.

Sir, excuse me, maybe you have difficulties to grasp the English language. This thread is not really about mining. It asks a simple question.

Sorry, iamnotback. Fixed.

Hmmmm.... two newbie accounts.  ;D
I think the new sock puppets are the problem not Smooth.

Some poor sad losers have nothing better to do than open new accounts and post crap like this.

Seriously...what sort of losers go to all the trouble to open new accounts to do this?

Some people only know how to hurl insults instead of waiting for smooth to answer a legitimate question.

You know damn well who I am and that I have Legendary status on BCT, i.e. I am higher in seniority than you.

I have no idea who you are and you have no legendary status and only 21 posts apparently

Read my posts and learn who I am.

Why not use these forums to do something useful for the community and contribute rather than for some ill conceived personal vendetta?

Just get over it and move on

A question about smooth's thought process is relevant to whether I would continue to value his opinion. Which may have great relevance to future endeavors, or may not. I am perplexed why he advised all of us to avoid instamines and attacked Dash so fiercely and even tried to talk me out of thinking that there was significant real economics in altcoin projects, and then it seems he is wrong with The DAO amassing $168 million and then he himself mining a stealth mine taking an advantage over others.

I just want to understand where is the consistency. Recently (before I knew smooth was mining Steemit), I decided on my own volition to stop the "holier than thou" attitude. I am curious did he have the same revelation and why?

I am just a tad bit jaded also because he knows I am working on JAMBOX a decentralized social networking and then he goes and throws his efforts to promote Steemit. And especially after he had basically talked me out of thinking that Bitshares might be a credible team to partner with. I had in 2015 thought about maybe my best direction was to start talking with Bitshares and in fact I did make one post over there offering to implement my Zero Knowledge Transactions for them. But that is okay. I love the competition. Gives me even more motivation.

I am confident smooth has no ill intentions. I am just curious about his response. And also I think he should not be able to have it both ways. He should choose.

Smooth has always been about honest disclosure. So I am just asking him to make a little bit of disclosure on this. So that I and others are not confused.

I think he has every right to mine and promote what ever he wants to. I would applaud him stating he respects that everyone else should also have that same free will and we don't need any sheriffs in the altcoin discussion. I expect though he is somewhat conflicted. So I am curious to read his response.

He will perhaps try to argue that a stealth mine is a free market and thus is not the same deception as an instamine. I will say bullocks, they are all free market activities. You are either a Libertarian or you aren't. Choose.

Legality is a different issue. But except for The DAO (and DAOs) where the legal risk seems to involve all participants (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1504662.msg15206288#msg15206288), that legal risk appears to apply mostly only to the insiders and maybe the promoters.

If you don't know AnonyMint/Shelby what have you been doing on Bitcointalk son? Date Registered November 09, 2013, 02:39:34 AM and never heard of him seems very strange to me. Have you bought the account from someone else or are you not into any tech discussions?

Smooth is not a hypocrite.

Smooth certainly is not a hypocrite. He's a honest and trustworthy dude who won't refrain from speaking out.

iamnotback certainly knows that smooth is one of the good ones and that his opinions are interesting and important.

Hypocrite?  Who cares. 

Corrupt scammer?  Definitely. Hypocrite? Who knows or cares

I take a great interest in cryptos both here and elsewhere and I'd prefer to see the forum used for different purposes than personal attacks from sockpuppet accounts that's all.

I would like to take the opportunity to answer the thread's simple question with a simple answer:


Monero



~CfA~

Maybe he changed his mind. Maybe he doesn't see any inconsistency?


Why does it matter whether you are confused. And why would your confusion be someone elses fault?

Maybe it's just me...I don't really care whether anyone is consistent (I hope) except for me.
I don't expect people in Crypto to be some kind of gods. They change their minds , they make mistakes, ...not really any of my business.

Question: Are you also posting under the handle "cryptosecurity" is that you also?  just asking

smooth was attacking Dash fiercely and even incited numerous others to follow his lead such as myself, generalizethis, etc..

If he can dish it out, then he can also be subject to a community inquiry on why suddenly stealth mining is acceptable but instamining is not.

He wasn't going about his personal business. He has been ramming his ethics down everyone else's throat.


Because he made himself a public figure and outspoken on ethics.

Thus he signed up for the same scrutiny he also dished out to others.

Why are you defending him? Are you a Monero person? Is smooth not capable of answering for himself?

Why not make your own decisions rather than blaming Smooth?

I have made my own decision.

Why are you deflecting the entire point of what I wrote in order to protect your beloved Monero:

smooth is making some money, if he wasn't affiliated with the devs there's no problem, he just got lucky to hear about the launch before the crowd

I don't own any Monero. As I have indicated here. I have owned some but only to trade and make BTC. I've stated that on here before

Dash insiders were just making some money also. That didn't stop smooth from fiercely attacking their reputation.

Btw, I heard about Dan Larimer's plan to stealth mine when he first published the blog post about using such a technique to launch and avoid legal issues of ICOs. I believe I was the one who mentioned it to smooth because of the communication between us about legality and ethics of ICOs and distribution schemes. I did not mine Steemit.

adhitthana I never saw you in the Altcoin Discussions before.

why come here now? just curious


~CfA~

I don't get on here much any more.

Added in edit:
 I'm not affiliated with any coin. I buy some from tine to time. I've bought a few newer coins this week. But I sold most altcoins I held a little while ago.

Disclosure. I do own a little over 100,000 Aeon which is about the same number I bought at Poloniex years ago. So I bought into them before Smooth was involved. They gone up and now back down.... m'eh.

They didn't cost me much. I bought most when they got dumped when the coin folded at Poloniex., They were pretty cheap IIRC.

Okay I can relate to that

I'm gone for months at times too

~CfA~

if the launch was public knowledge, and there was no funny business with changing coin supply, or some people had access to better miners etc, then it's OK IMO

DASH was a conspiracy, this just looks like a stealth mine, so if anyone was lucky enough to get on early good luck to them. It doesn't meet my requirements for a good investment though, but it doesn't look corrupt. A good launch it wasn't, but that's not smooth's fault

I say bullocks on your arbitrary distinction:


Stealth mining is like hiding the prospectus if you want to compare it to investment norms.

Either you have fair and wide distribution or you don't. But I say ethics has nothing to do with it. Choose which forms of distribution you think make the most sense business wise. Ethics just drags us in the arbitrary mud slinging.

your opinion if perfectly valid, the steem launch was a dud ... is that something smooth needs to take responsibility for? I think he might agree the steem launch was less than ideal, but he can still participate, nothing in crypto is even close to ideal these days

yes absolutely cuz he called anyone who did something similar to be criminals, basically told them to gtfo

so he is absolutely guilty if he did the same. wouldnt be a very smooth attitude.

~CfA~

...

Right there is basically the only ammunition Smooth needs to bleat SCAM! SCAM! SCAM! about any other coin in which he is not a bag holder.

In a way this is similar to the 73 NXT initial investors ... big gain, not a scam, not their fault. If the 'market' desires the steem or NXT products so be it .. it isn't the investors who decide the parameters.

DASH was a scam ... steem and NXT just had bad launches, and maybe bad enough for them to fail

DASH had scam elements beyond the stealth mine, and that's what I've seen smooth attacking them for

Stop with the arbitrary ethics. No one can define scam unambiguously. This is not church. Are you a Libertarian who believes people can be responsible for their own decisions or do you advocate a NannyState here in altcoin land?

It will cut down on a lot of needless and useless verbal diarrhoea if we stick to discussions about technology, marketing, speculation and stop trying to win by attacking each other with mud slinging.

Everyone should be free to state their opinion, but incessantly battering our opinion on others is oppressive and leads to a lot of useless arguing.

Also when someone doesn't walk their own talk, they should probably not be surprised if they suffer a credibility crisis.

So I will try to STFU now and await smooth's response, if any.

Iamnotback...are you also posting as "cryptosecurity"?
Did you start this thread?...just asking

No. He's not posting as "cryptosecurity" and he didn't start the thread.

~CfA~

so will I ...

How do you know?

Read my post history

BTW that's offtopic

~CfA~

Absolutely not. I had posted in the prior thread he started, actually defending smooth. I am not colluding with him and I don't know who he is.

I will STFU on this topic.

I haven't read 100% of the posts on this thread (mostly just the first page) so I may have missed something. But the main question seems to be whether I endorse their launch strategy or anything else about it. The answer is mostly no, I just mined it, as a few said earlier in the thread.

The only thing I would endorse is that the web site itself doesn't seem half bad. It is a lot like reddit without the uncontrolled sock puppets. There have been some good crypto posts and discussion on there, and I was planning to mirror major Monero announcements on there so people could have another place to discuss if desired (but there haven't been any major Monero announcements recently so I haven't yet don't that)

If people want to try that (usually for free either by my bitcointalk account offer or their facebook/reddit offers), I see no harm in it. Does not require you to buy anything at all.

As far as I know that is what happened.

I saw the post on bitcointalk and like many new coins that I have mined I decided to mine it. I presume other people also saw that post.


I don't remember ever discussing Bitshares with you or anyone else. It seems unlikely because with one small exception I have always been entirely ignorant about Bitshares, something that even today puts me at a disadvantage in understanding Steem (since it is based closely on Bitshares). The exception is that I was pretty sure their original model of pegged assets was catastrophically unstable and would not work. They later added a price feed, which improved it somewhat.

It may be that I made some general remarks that could be interpreted as arguing against the success of Bitshares model, but I don't know.


The blog post was not made until several days after the Steem launch. I was already mining it.

Thanks for the explanation.

I'll refresh your memory.

It was after I had announced Zero Knowledge Transactions and it was clear that Monero had a competitive solution RingCT and I was shopping ZKT around to potentially BBR and also I approached Bitshares briefly. Thus that must have been roughly Aug or Sept. There is a post from AnonyMint user name at the Bitshares forum as evidence.

I was discussing with you in private about the merits of ICOs and making money from launching a coin in what ever means. And you were trying to tell me that there is basically no money in it and that is why Monero's plan is the best, because the XMR devs just do it as a hobby or labor of love and don't take it too seriously as a way to generate income. You were always in general coaxing me away from any concept of making money from developing and launching CC, and to the open source hobbyist Monero way.

And I mentioned Bitshares as an example with their significant marketcap which had been as high as $40 million at one point for afair the ProtoShares. And had also mentioned Dash. That is when you instructed me about how all the mcaps are fake and you made me aware that insiders buy from themselves to make it appear that the volume is real.

I said okay maybe for Dash, but Bitshares seems to have legit technology and theirs might be real. And you said that look how Bitshares is trying to sell services (at that time in 2015) because they are basically cash strapped and aren't earning hardly anything from creating CCs.

In short, you were trying to discourage me from pursuing making a CC if I expected to earn any $ from doing so. That is not to say you were discouraging me from creating a CC if not for expectation of a payday. That is not to say you were wishing for me to fail if I did attempt to. I think you felt you were just giving sound feedback.

To be fair, you were aware of my illness and perhaps you were concerned and felt I might be better off to take employment, get medical insurance, and have a more stable and less risky source of potential income and funding for health care.

But I just know that before that discussion, I never thought about the altcoin market as being one giant scam and being entirely fake. I really bought into your take on that. But now in hindsight, I think you are not entirely correct. Seems people who have produced less technology than I am working on, having reaped some significant paydays.

Waves raised ~$15 million and referred to IOHK's open source without apparently having developed anything at all. It was apparently purely a marketing campaign. Heck I never expected even a $million, so with better tech than they have, why shouldn't I be able to get my $500,000 and also do some good for the CC community.

When I respect someone, it means I listen intently to what they have to say.

1. I am curious how you can offer Streemit accounts to Bitcointalk users? Do you have some special affiliation with Steem that enables you to do that?

2. And I am wondering why you are doing that promotion for them? Is that so you can improve the liquidity of the coin so you can sell? I mean you are promoting a stealth mined coin which seems to go against your highly public ethics against non-fair mining. Normally I wouldn't care at all what you do or why, but it is just because of your desire to use the bully-pulpit.

3. Lastly I have no qualms about you not endorsing something meaning you think it might fail technically, marketing, or business wise. But if you mean that your reputation should matter when endorsing ethics of distribution schemes, then I want to inform you that I no longer support you in that. And in fact, I might become quite a thorn to those who continue to berate others about Right and Wrong, as if God appointed you to do that.

In short, those enforcers on this forum make me want to puke. Any one doing censorship (other than self-moderated threads for their own official coin thread), bullying by politik, or any other holier than thou crap will be on my personal shit (do not like) list (which basically means nothing so no big deal).

In other words, I am urging us all to stop the nonsense political control game. Let it run wild and free. Don't be afraid to not be in control. Don't be afraid. Just let nature be.

The next time some Monero person tries to berate me or talk down to me, or I see someone using their political clout to try to control the discussion, I am going to vomit on their lap.

No I don't. Anyone who has the cli wallet can create an account using the create_account command. It costs 10 coins (about $3) but as long as I don't get Sybil attacked that cost is not a concern for me at all. It is also possible for anyone to mine accounts without paying any coins, which I have also done for various people I know (from forum or otherwise). Those accounts are turned over for free if and when they want them.

Both mining and using the cli wallet/node requires a degree of technical skills (I think you have to compile it yourself, although it is possible there are Windows binaries somewhere), but once you have an account on the blockchain you can use the web site.


Because I think it is a useful site, and maybe it helps my personal reputation a bit to help people out (I got one or two positive trusts from it, though I never asked for any). Getting a free account from the site directly requires linking it to your Facebook account, which a lot of crypto people don't like or may not even have.

No I don't think it will improve liquidity. It would take far more than that (probably impossible).


OK, I mean when I'm busy with something else I barely comment. In fact I wouldn't even be writing this (or seen the thread) except that I was asked out-of-band by someone about it.

I have no problem with criticizing things I think are done poorly for whatever reason, and that includes Steem (as I just did in this thread, or maybe it was the other one).

If you think that community self-regulation is inappropriate when there is no other effective authority doing any regulation of abuses and scams, then we disagree. We also disagree on what it means to let things be wild and free, because pretty much all wild and free systems generally include some form of community self-regulation.

I don't care enough to care. 1 more pointless tread doesn't excite me.

Okay yes I remember that. It seemed at the time Bitshares was going through a lot of turmoil, which included seeking alternate sources of funding such as building custom systems for banks (not clear that they ever got any takers). I still don't know the details of it, but it seems that project model has not worked out very well ultimately, just as I said at the time. It appears that Dan sold his remaining coins at a much-reduced price and moved on, though it isn't entirely clear whether he may contribute to it in some manner in the future. All in all I can't see how that is called a great success of a project; you might disagree.

The Bitshares model was not replicated when Dan went and started his new project Steem, which to my mind means someone who knows a lot more about that model than I do also didn't think much of it. Now he's tried another (stealth-mine) model, which I also don't think has really worked out all that well either (though the jury is still out on that one objectively).

So maybe you have your own ideas how to launch a coin and make money. If you have new approaches, good for you. But I wouldn't try too hard to replicate the others. They're mostly failures.


That's exactly right, and I think I said so at the time. I even suggested that you take up on some offers that you had for paying work to get your personal finances in better shape (so you could at least afford to take a trip to a developed country for medical evaluation and potentially treatment).


Well if you think you can raise money without having developed anything at all on the basis of, for example, very questionable claims about members of the IOHK team being on their team or being advisors (which IOHK denied) and you think that isn't a scam, go for it. I don't think that path leads anywhere except putting some money into the organizers pockets, and maybe a token that can be pumped. I don't believe the $15 million number either, but I'd believe they did raise some.

I tend to agree with you, but I also think that non-technical people are simply not in a position to fully comprehend the risks involved in poorly designed security software / consensus systems. This is evidenced by the Bitcoin block size debate, where a great deal of opinion has come from decidedly non-technical individuals.

Therefore, those that are technical, and I do not imply that I am included, have a right and perhaps even a responsibility to point technical and even ethical flaws out out in a way that is understandable to non-technical users. To this end, smooth has been consistent in his criticisms - he has even been consistent (to me at least) in his statements regarding Steem, effectively saying that the website is an interesting publishing platform, but the entire thing might be extremely broken, and he has not had the opportunity to fully comprehend how it all fits together.

A favourite post of mine, that I tend to go back to every time a criticism of mine is met with accusations of FUD, is this one by gmaxwell (emphasis mine) -

Main question is the contrast to when Dash is launched with better distribution than Steem you make it your multi-year mission mission to label it a scam and people selling with profit scammers.

And the rest of the Monero brigade is too confused or afraid to attack Steem for the same reasons they relentlessly attack Dash year after year. Perhaps Steem needs to add privacy features until that starts to happen?

First off that statement is obviously nonsense because no one knows the distribution of Dash, nor can we can really compare on a apples-to-apples basis between Steem at a few months old and Dash at a few months old.

But let's compare Dash with Steem.

Dash was launched with misleading statements by the developer about the launch time. Steem did not do this and in fact relaunched with a day advance notice of a specific launch time after there were some problems with the first launch. By that time some community members had already posted guides for how to compile and mine and even some lesser-skilled miners had started attempting it, making it somewhat less of a stealthy launch.

The Steem code was essentially feature-complete at launch so everyone could look through the source code as I did in order to determine what the coin was intended to do (and everyone had extra time to do this given the relaunch). Dash, on the other hand, did not release any feature or development plan information whatsoever until after the conclusion of the instamine, and in fact deliberately withheld it.

The Steem developer told people at launch that he was mining a lot and released the names of the accounts he was using for mining, making it all transparent, disclosed to all participants, and verifiable on the blockchain (there are no relevant privacy features and the blockchain uses transparent named accounts for all operations).

Steem mining proceeded at a constant rate for one month. Dash's instamine was front-loaded primarily onto literally one hour (and remember that is one hour following a misleading launch time), then front-loaded to a lesser extent over the first 8 hours and finally concluded after two days. At some point during the month the Steem developer stated he had mined "enough", cut back on his mining so others could mine more (and again, it was verifiable on the blockchain that he actually did this).

At the conclusion of the pure-PoW mining phase, all of the coins from the developer mining accounts were merged into the transparent 'steemit' account, with a stated plan to sell them off to pay for development and distribute them for free to new users (each new account requires 10 STEEM funding). These actions have occurred and are transparent on the blockchain. Where did the Dash instamine coins go? How much was mined by the developers or others? Is there similar transparency? Are there or have there ever been explicit, transparent and verifiable plans to distribute it?

Unlike Dash, there have been no supply or emissions cuts in Steem that have the effect of amplifying the early mining. There have been no new schemes introduced to pay more of the supply to the instaminers, and indeed some of the tweaks and proposals that have been made have the effect of diluting early holdings even faster.

And finally, on top of all this, Steem isn't even trying to by a cryptocurrency, it is a social media site. The Steem token is totally unsuitable for use as a cryptocurrency, and no one (including the devs) suggests otherwise. So again, comparing it and its distribution with Dash (even if Dash's distribution were likewise transparent which it mostly is not) makes no sense.

So while I will repeat that I don't think their stealth mine strategy is a good idea, nor do I personally support it, nor do I think it has worked out particularly as they had planned, nor do I suggest that anyone invest in it, comparing it to Dash or suggesting that it is somehow more of a fraudulent launch than Dash ignores all or nearly all facts about what actually happened with each coin.

I see steem as equally as bad as dash.

If steem were to captive instamine as dash did and not be branded with exactly the same brush they should have kept a full transparent ledger of their instamine and how it is getting paid out to posters on steemit.

Both are as bad as each other. If you don't like what one did it is impossible to like the other.

I have not seen smooth promote steem myself and he did say he though the start was very unfair (even though yes it was honestly unfair to a degree that does not make it any better). I have always found him to be rather honest and up front in the past over things. However yes I would think he should not approve of steem in its current form.

If steem has a full ledger for every instamined coin that would be different but until they do they are no better than dash. You could argue evans has hung around working and using his premine stash too.

Is steem claiming "No premine, fairly and transparently launched"? If they aren't making these claims, and are open and upfront about what they did, then they are not similar to dash in the respect to truth in advertising--one is the guy who is ridiculously jacked and admits to steroids and another guy who is ridiculously jacked and claims he never ever used performance enhancing drugs; one is a juicer and the other is a juicer and a liar.

Funny thing there is just such a transparent ledger -- the blockchain!

The disposition of the "stealth mined" coins is entirely transparent on the blockchain here:

https://steemd.com/@steemit

They originally flowed in from the mining accounts that were named steemit## and sminer## which you can see on the history if you go far enough back. There were a few other accounts such as "administrator" and "moderator" that were also disclosed on the original thread as being theirs.

Coins that are used to fund new user accounts are sent from there to here first:

https://steemd.com/@steem

Coins that are sold to fund development are sent to @bittrex or maybe @blocktrades. Ned, the CEO of Steemit, has been transparent with the community about when he is selling coins for that purpose (although it is obvious on the blockchain anyway).

The payouts to posters are newly-created coins (like mining) not from any account.


I don't.


Well they do, but I still don't "approve" it.

For a while I think their thread did say "No premine" which was literally true but misleading. They caught some heat for it (with good reason) and it was removed. But if we are going to compare with Dash lets keep in mind what the Dash thead still says:


Really???

Just like everyone could've installed VirtualBox+Linux on their Windows machines at Dash launch to mine yet that's one of the key points you like to attack.

Which is easier, reading through code to determine wtf it is, or following through 5 step instructions on how to install VirtualBox+Linux?



How do you know he didn't have more accounts he didn't disclose?



Why are they unsuitable as cc? Are they better suitable as speculation tokens? They seem to be perfectly suitable for generating BTC and new bagholders judging from the Bittrex action.

Before I catch up on reading this thread since my last post upthread, I'd like to make the excuse that I was about to passout from sleeplessness when I wrote my two posts as response to smooth. So I may not have articulated well my stance and maybe even caused misunderstandings.

Also my objective is not to cause any problem for smooth. My hope is actually that all of us would just accept that the altcoin arena is a game.

I think using our reputations and politik to belittle others and to declare scams, is counter productive.

I am coming to the realization (click link below) that this arena is a game and anything one might think of as a scam or worse in some ethical way, is just part of the game:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1505886.msg15233191#msg15233191

It is such a PITA to wade through all the irrelevant verbiage. What matters to us are:

1. How to make some money
2. Marketing evaluation/ideas
3. Technology evaluation/ideas
4. Business model evaluation/ideas

I don't want to have to appease the guy with 62 upvotes on his reputation and his politik of groupies who gave him that rating.

I don't want to be tied to that irrelevant crap of every time I want to post some idea or thought and being attacked by these enforcers (mostly from the Monero community).

What I am saying is that originally I bought into what appears to have been smooth's notion of righteousness and proper ethics (not to say he is the only one, but he sort of ended up as a defacto leader to some degree). Now I think it is hypocrite bullshit. And I am calling it out as bullshit and hoping smooth will abandon that. But I doubt he will.

I will still respect smooth as a good person. And I appreciate all his has done to share his thoughts with me. And I don't want to backstab him after he helped me. So it is with somewhat difficulty, that I say that I won't support the concept of having oversight by those "who know better".

Also I apologize to generalthis et al, for switching sides so abruptly but it is just became clear to me that I was on the wrong path and interpretation of the reality. I urge these guys to wake up also.

I wish smooth would realize that even he really wants a free market. That allowed him to mine and promote Steem/Steemit. And then I have no need nor reason to care why or what he did. It is his personal free will and choice. Let's please stop trying to run the altcoin arena as if it was a NannyState because it isn't and no one can make it so. Those who are infatuated with their ability to bully others here on the forum, are the ones in delusion. To the extent I did, I wrong was and I apologize.

Sorry.

I think you have me confused with cryptohunter. I don't think Windows binaries are that big a deal, although certainly if you are going to huge number of coins in the first hour even time spent compiling is a disadvantage. Steem didn't do that; mining was flat and there was plenty of time to figure out how to compile it (or follow the posted instructions).

Go ahead and look at my Dash instamine thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0). It doesn't mention it, except to point out how Evan was offering 5000 XCO for someone to compile it shortly after launch, demonstrating that he had already mined a lot of it.


You could do exactly the same virtual box deal with steem, so that can't possibly be a point in favor of Dash. By the time of the relaunch there was a step-by-step mining guide posted.


It doesn't matter if he did. He transparently mined almost all the coins anyway. Hardly anything left to hide, especially after accounting for the (relatively tiny) mining done by me and a few others.


It is unsuitable because in unlocked form it has permanent 100+% per year inflation. Unless you live in Venezuela, I can't really see anyone finding that an attractive proposition (and even then, Bitcoin or something else is far more attractive). In locked form it has 0-10% inflation but can't be spent and can only be unlocked slowly over a two-year period.

The purpose of the token is to serve, in locked form, as a form of sybil-resistant karma, reputation, and voting power on the social media site. The unlocked form exists only temporarily to facilitate transfers, after which someone needs to relatively quickly relock it or see it inflated away. Steemit, by the way, doesn't use the karma aspect of their holdings at all (voting or posting on the site). The coins just sit there in a transparent account doing nothing (which causes them to slowly lose value).

Whether or not you think any of this is a good idea (many aspects of it are half-baked at best IMO), there is no way to consider any of this a cryptocurrency where you (or at least some people even if not you) might consider speculating on it becoming widely accepted as a currency.

There is a smartcoin USD-pegged token (that doesn't exist yet) that will be used to payout rewards for the best posts, but that's still not something you would want to speculate on either, unless you feel like speculating on a likely-inferior-to-the-original USD (other than possibly speculating on the failure of the pegging as recently happened with Nubits).

Of course I do. And a free market includes a free market of ideas where people can give opinions, point out problems, and criticize actions (including my own).

It does not mean that everyone is free to rip everyone else off without being called out for it.

Getting "ripped off" is ambiguous as it is all part of the game. Was I ripped off when I chose to sell localbitcoins via paypal and lost $600? I think so. But I was stupid enough to not think that someone could be using a stolen Paypal account. It was a good lesson for me to learn. I charged it to experience.

We don't need a NannyState. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what risks we want to take.

I have no problem with you pointing out that Dash had an instamine and giving your reasons why you think that will make the technology (masternode co-option), marketing, adoption, and business model less successful.

But it doesn't help if you/we think that by stopping what we perceive to be n00bs from buying Dash, by constantly yelling "scam", because we are not omniscient. And that is not production. That is just a logjam of destroying degrees-of-freedom. And we are not omniscient as evidenced by our wrong perception of the income potential in altcoins and of Bitshares' potential. Thus it is harmful to ourselves and others when we act as if we are.

You and I both should be introducing more inspiring ideas and projects than attacking other projects. It is very annoying. In spite of the fact that Vitalik's work doesn't scale and has other technical problems and they never yet worked out a viable use case, at least he was out there promoting inspirational ideas whilst you and I were like curmudgeons wasting our time trying to ferret out all the cockroaches.

The distinction is Vitalik doesn't try to control what others do. He goes out there and creates his game.

The winners in any sport don't focus on complaining about what others do. They focus on their own game.

I want to be youthful and create. Not yet ready to sit in the rocking chair and point at others because of being incapable of doing myself.

Ball and out.



Edit: and i really don't care if John Conner plagiarized Bitcoin code.  Fuck copyright (but be wary of the law). All I care is what he is producing or not producing. I don't care about an indicator of his ethics. Well feel free to share it, but I am not going to really place a high relevance on that. I will learn about his capabilities via his designs. Then i will know whether he is worthy of my attention.

You and I both want a meritocracy, but what I am saying is let's go straight to the production. Never mind the meta noise.

Oh thanks for explaining that. So due to my ignorance of their API, I had the wrong initial assumption. Thanks for correcting me.


Ah I see it is only the personal reputation motivation. I should have realized that, but the likely reason I didn't it because I think as you can observe that I don't place a very high value on status, as I abandoned my Hero account (which would have been Legendary by now) and a couple of Senior level accounts also.

Some people like to aspire to titles such as President of the Student Council, or other forms of recognized social status, especially when these are empowering, such as how on this forum having reputation allows one to muck with reputation of others.

I personally detest those structures and have always avoided them since even high school.

The only titles I ever valued were the ones of accomplishment. For example, my past sporting and software venture achievements. The only reputation I want is one of being someone who created something great. I don't want political clout. And I don't want to use political clout.

So that is a fundamental difference between us that will be difficult to reconcile, which explains why I got upset with your moderation of the Monero thread and deleting my defenses against those who berated me there. Albeit you were always trying to balance the politics and you tried to retain my comments quoted into tiny font. I just reject the entire community concept of a leader censor managing a lot of underlings. I prefer a flat structure of competing achievers. The defacto leader is the one who achieves the most.

I hate meta noise. I want a flat lean, self healing structure.


Yeah I am against the concept of community self-regulation. I prefer no regulation.

We'll agree to disagee and I won't pesker you about it any  more. I'll just ignore it when I see it.

Again sorry for shifting sands of my attitude.

What you seeing now is the real me. I was trying to be someone I wasn't, I guess to appease others.

Sorry I am really a minanarchist at heart, bordering on full anarchist.

I don't know if because I was so sick, perhaps I lost my internal compass due to the semiconscious state (delirium) of fighting with my CFS. But my internal compass throughout my life, has always been non-interventionalist. Perhaps I was also driven by fear (debilitating health can break any person) and financial desperation which caused me to perhaps lose the confidence in myself that I need to not compromise my ethics of anarchism (i.e. feeling I was helpless and needed to rely on others and my reputation for their approval)

Although perhaps an accurate summary of some facets and appreciably sobering, I think this is indicative of too pessimistic or one-sided perspective which needs more balance.

He may have profited earlier during the ProtoShares, which may have kept him motivated to keep trying. And then eventually he lands on the Steem project. There Butterfly Effects and serendipity is beyond our omniscience. We stay engaged so we are ready to have breakthrough moment, such as this morning when I awoke and realized the killer app for smart block chains.


Well I am very glad he tried it before I did, so I can learn not to try it. Nature meanders and all the noise is integral to (essential element of) the process of decentralized annealing to the optimum fitness.

My analysis/opinion thus far is that the challenge for Steemit thus far is the investment and usership model:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1505886.msg15233793#msg15233793


No comment.  ;)


That fucking Chronic Fatigue Syndrome delirium scrambled egg brain fog health crap has been a 4 year DAILY (1460+ days!) fucking albatross around my neck! Good grief Mr. Nature/Universe/God, please give me a break! I want to code!


Of course I will not copy their methodology. I will not launch vaporware and instead something with real technological and marketing innovation that can withstand peer review.

But I am also not going to criticize them other than noting what they did. I'll let the speculators decide how they play the game. I'll be trying  to observe and understand what all the players in this altcoin arena game are doing. I'd rather understand, than delude myself into thinking I have any control over others.

Any influence I have will most significantly only be due to any great accomplishments, if any.

And fluffypony commented in this thread. And he has more great accomplishment in altcoins than I, so I am humbled. Apologies i am so loud mouthed. Just replying to all your points.

Please note I am humbled by your accomplishments in CC compared to mine and I noted that at the end of the prior post.


I appreciate your and gmaxwell's eloquently worded case for self-regulation, or more accurately on the logic of why self-regulation is futile.

QED.

And my further point is that not only is it futile (you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink), but my prior replies to smooth are arguing that it is harmful, because if we remove the degrees-of-freedom from nature, it can't anneal. Then we end up with top-down driven grid lock of expert omniscience, e.g Blockstream's clusterfuck Troika of SegWit, LN, and Sidechains. I've mentioned my reasons for that stance on those technologies else where.

Gregory seems to play the collectivist card (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1378533.msg14044024#msg14044024), and I suspect he also thinks man-made global warming is not a hoax to tax carbon based on his support for oppressive CopyLeft software licenses (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gmaxwell) indicating he is for radical leftist style intervention. In short, I read gmaxwell to be an interventionist of a much higher degree than smooth. But interventionalism is also a groupthink effect and becomes a mania. Thus I am think we need to be very well grounded in anarchism and respecting nature, else we will slide into another Holocaust.

We need to allow all viewpoints and all experiments.

Nothing wrong with stating your case for example on the Monero documentation as to specific reasons why other systems are inferior. You should promote the advantages. And then it is up to the market to decide.

But creating a BCT/Reddit funnel that all speculators must pass through, wherein we try to control the process, is stomping on nature and will result in failure to anneal or the annealing will route around the Coasian barrier.

Quoting myself (the linked original contains some links which I didn't bother to copy over in this quote):

I support that this is a free market and you have every right to point out those differences.

I hope the distinction is clear, that what I think it is futile is trying to maintain awareness of your stance, by basically advertising by brute force the above information.

Fact is that the altcoin market ends up ignoring and forgetting that information. And who are you (and your Monero group) to force it down everyone's throat over and over and over and over.

I realize you didn't repeat that every day, but the underlings (myself included) maintained the barrage.

How about accepting the fact that the market doesn't really care. (We should) Move on. Find a new vocation and hopefully one that is more creative and produces something great for altcoins. If the market doesn't think Monero is great, that is not Dash's fault. Dash has nothing to do with why the market is not going bonkers for Monero.

The real problem for Monero is that speculators are not investing for some 20 year Manhattan project. They want to invest in near-term 10 - 100X gain potential. They also don't see that level of potential excitement about anonymity.

Speculators are shooting for the next Bitcoin investment. Ethereum already fulfilled that goal, rising by 100X from the IPO price.

Perhaps you and some other Monero long-term HODLers wanted the altcoin market to be about something which it isn't.

You may remember back when rpietila used to proclaim that Monero would be the next best thing to Bitcoin and I was really pissed off for him lording over the future like a God. And this was someone who I was cordial with and had done business with in silver. There was always this air of snobbishness and condescending attitude from the Monero supporters (not all, but a lot).

I often said this altcoin market is not for heirlooms. New ideas and goals are popping up every 3 - 6 months. Innovate or die.

The long-term Linux approach appears to be inapplicable to altcoins.

I argue that the distinction between Steem and Dash is irrelevant when we are applying to whether one who tries to be perfect can never be. My point was by allowing all experiments we don't get trapped in trying to explain ethically that one less than wide distribution is less worse/wrong than another more concentrated distribution, as if two ethical "wrongs" make one ethically right. I am not even convinced either was ethically "wrong" (because this is the altcoin game and know the rules or lack thereof before you play). They just are what they are. Facts aren't ethically or morally qualified, unless you are a politician who bends the definition of fact. As for being "wrong" in terms of technological or marketing success, those are useful datums for speculators.


If Michael Jordan had expend his time and effort explaining why all the other players sucked, he would not be a G.O.A.T..

Achievers achieve. Bitchers bitch.

Each of us gets to choose.

You are doing what you decry, which is trying to declare the market to be according to your perceptions or desires (all about 100x pumps and 3-6 month hype coins). Monero is doing fine after two and half yeare. Development continues, the market cap is at or near its all-time high, and even the price in Bitcoin is higher than it has been for most of if its lifetime (or another way to look at that is the weighted average of coins from their date of emission).

Monero has outlasted and outgrown hundreds of hype crap coins that came after it and it will continue to outlast most of the current crop of garbage. If you want to play the pumps as a trader, or think that you are have a particular skill set that makes you well-suited to playing crap coin launches as an organizer and hype promoter, only then would all this short term noise even matter to you.

I agree 100% with smooth's analysis, DASH & steem are very different, both might not pass the sniff test, but DASH was a scam, and steem is just a bad design, maybe even with bad motivation, but not a scam.

A better summary of what Dan was going through during that period and I specifically saw his frustration for the few moments I was in his forum:

https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa

You were the FIRST person other than me to call out evans for captive instamining xcoin (dark/dash) it is right there in the thread. You are the one saying evans engineered the launch to set up the premine. Look at the first 5 pages of the darkcoin thread???

"wut.. no premine but you have 5k to throw?"  illodin (page 5) even before that you are moaning about the launch and you like most at the launch were for some reason having a big problem trying to mine the coins. Seems your 5 easy steps weren't so easy in this case.


Why?  because the entire thing was set up for evans and a few others to take them all whilst telling everyone else it was a fair release like other alts that were released at the time. It was not. It is therefore a scam. It like this you tell people it's a fair launch with no premine no instamine then do exactly what you say you are not doing. That is a scam. There is no need for a deep philosophical debate 50 abstract levels deeper and off on all tangents.

How are you still protecting that scam coin??

So later you managed to get your hands on some and it's all okay and there was no reason to complain??

Every other coin claiming a fair release had windows binaries. Yes, if you really want a fairer and wider distribution you will release with windows binaries.

Steem and dash are both scams. They deliberately did what they said they were not doing. It's that simple. That's a lie. That's a scam. There will be those that will persuade many through elaborate thought experiments that these are not scams or that they are simply scams that should take place. That's not going to wash for the majority of the board. They want "fairer" "wider" distributions and if you can show in simple observable terms that a currency has not attempted fair and wide distribution then hopefully it will be cast out as a pariah project regardless of the tech behind it. It can always be cloned and distributed in a fairer and wider manner.

I don't keep track of XMR.  I saw something about it crashed in recent months exactly as I warned multiple times your highly censored speculation thread to take some profits when it ran up high recently. Maybe it has pulled back up, yet in that interim time ETH has made a 100X gain off the IPO price. As far as I know XMR has not yet exceeded its all time price high (of course mcap is higher because money supply has increased) right after launch perhaps due to rpietila's incessant promotion at that time. I think XMR investors have been quite frustrated to see ETH and DASH kicking its butt in terms of gains made and so out of jealousy they go attack others.

That is not to diminish the work of for example fluffypony, because that is still a lot of work and I have said he deserves what ever success Monero can muster.

Well my 1970 Radio Shack (Texas Instruments) handheld calculator might still be operating with 1 occasional user but that is irrelevant isn't it.

Yeah I suppose Monero still has some 1000s of users because Zcash isn't released yet. But the clock is ticking on that plus as other coins moves towards 100 millions of user adoption and add anonymity then why will anyone still bother with Monero. Even Steem plans to duplicate RingCT, but they probably don't understand marketing well enough to be that popular coin, although we both give them kudos on making an actually slick Reddit clone. The problem is they don't seem to understand social networks well. But they may learn fast and adapt. We'll see.

If there are any grand plans for Monero that are way beyond RingCT, then I apologize for not being aware of them. So factor my myopia on that aspect in accordingly.

Sorry if you feel I am trying to paint a false perception. That is honestly and frankly how I see it playing out. RingCT isn't even the best or only anonymity technology and the real problem is that which ever coin ends up being very popular will just add anonymity.

I am not trying to be extra callous, but I am just so tired of hearing how Mundanero will still be going 20 years from now. Hey I need a popular coin now! If Monero can't do it, then someone else will.

Btw I agree that there haven't been really serious achievements from altcoins. Ethereum is an unfinished and highly unpolished work, that doesn't yet have a killer app. The DAO is an unmitigated disaster in the making. And Dash is of course Dashtardly.

Steem appears to have good coders. If they had only consulted with me to get the marketing design right and the debasement design right. I am quite tempted to find out who their best coders are and try to approach them, but I've watched Dan so many times botch things, that I am wary. I also know what he did to Charles and I have never repeated that and never will. It is so difficult to choose a partner. I've observed Charles get kicked out of two projects.

I honestly wish I could say good luck to Monero. But some of them have berated me and been so condescending to me, that I don't think I can't wash the taste out of my mouth ever. I must admit the feeling borders on hate. I try to push it down, but it is difficult to forget the way the community treats others. The top assholes include:

Shen-noether
iCEBREAKER (and he also backed off his attacks when he saw that I really knew my shit about PL design with Keann but frankly it is already too late because I see his true colors)
(and that other guy I've forgotten his username, although he tried to be nice just before I got banned)
and various others at various times.

They probably think I am an asshurl as well. Bad blood. I will just stay away from them entirely. Thus I hope Monero fades far away from my consciousness.

It is really a horrible feeling when I hear the word Monero. And I am not the only person who feels that way. You guys killed your marketing.

That is not to say I dislike everyone who supports Monero. There are some guys there I get along with. You being one except I am kind of annoyed that you are the leader and the censor. I just pray all the animosity of it will disappear. And all the snobbishness and condescending berating. Arghh!

Ya know if anonymity was really the #1 market, I would have built a coin on my Zero Knowledge Transactions. But I realized it wasn't the good priority. There is no significant adoption, so it ends up just being a fist fight between the various camps, because no camp can really go gain an adoption market to make it clear which one is the winner.

How can anyone know. There is no ledger for either. What if Dash is actually spending more of his instamine on development of the coin than steem is?
Steem says strictly no premine whilst taking many measure to ensure only they can mine all the coins at launch. To be fair if only the devs can mine then it is really a premine or captive instamine. I don't see one as much better than the other.

Wow, hats off. This thread got to be one of the most insightful in crypto land. Posts on a level as we can enjoy here are rare to come by. Shelby and Smooth discussing all things crypto and distribution.

There are no coins making any real moves to 100 millions of user adoption with the possible exception of Bitcoin perhaps slowly very, very doing so. But this was a discussion of altcoins, which makes Bitcoin irrelevant.

Leave that kind of hyperbole to the pumpers. You're not very good at that game (no insult).


It may, it may not. I'm on record saying many times that it will probably fail and become worthless. Of all the coins around, it is in a small group that has the best chance to be around in 20 years (Bitcoin obviously far eclipses all the rest, and not only because of its size)


Maybe. It could be that the mass market just doesn't want it. One of the merits of a slow and steady approach is that the mass market may wants something in the future that it doesn't want now.


IMO the Bitshares ecosystem (including Steem) has the best coders and not just Dan, at least if you want to stick with C++ or don't care about PL. Also the best quality code stack. Bitcoin has very good coders, but I'm assuming you are only speaking of alts. Monero had one excellent C++ coder but he unfortunately passed away, along with several competent ones. I'm unsure about Ethereum; apparently Gavin was a good coder (speaking on second-hand reports, not my personal assessment). Vitalik is hardly a coder at all. I don't know about the others. But as you say coding ability is not the only thing that matters. There are many other ways to mess things up, and other ways to add value.

What they hell? I showed you the ledger for Steem's "stealth mine" coins. Most of the Steem "stealth mine" coins are sitting in the 'steemit' account doing nothing. A relatively small amount have been sold off, and coins are consistently being distributed to new users.


Only the devs can mine is wrong. I mined and so did some other non-devs. Unlike Dash, Steem has a hyper-transparent ledger where most of the coins in existence can be clearly seen and tracked with people's names on them.

It was not a "fair launch" as you like to define that term, but it wasn't completely closed either, nor was there anything deceptive or misleading about it that I have identified.

I'm also not sure where they claim "no premine" either. It used to be on their thread but I don't see it any more.

Fair enough... didn't read that part earlier. Yes, well in that case if the tally of the instamine roughly matches with the total payouts less a reasonable sum for the devs it is not so bad. You can argue really the distribution process only starts via the steem.it board. The first part was merely away of getting the coins into the devs hands without calling it a premine.

Present performance and events are not necessarily an indication of future performance. The DAO came out of no where to $168 million.

Please don't tell me you are omniscient. You have no idea what I am doing for example, unless you planted a virus on my computer.

And don't underestimate my ability to pump. I will only pump what I believe in, which means it has to actually be technically sound.

I am not saying I will be the one. Again Steem also has some of the right ingredients. They need some of my ingredients. If the two could be put together, that would very much increase the odds. But the problem is all the vested interests and personalities, etc.. Sometimes it is more efficient to just code yourself than to go talk with others.


The mass market is ready but we haven't tapped it yet. That is specifically what I could really help Steem on. I already have the design. I am just trying to implement. It took them years to build up their code stack. I am starting from scratch.


Who passed away amongst Monero core devs? You had a dev older than me?

Yeah most people think Vitalik is so awesome but I see he butchered the DAO concept (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1505886.msg15250689#msg15250689). And he doesn't code and debug.

Steemit has a lot of JS I assume at least on the client side? Are they writing the server side of Steemit in C++?

I prefer to move away from C++ if I can. I can code rudimentary C++ but I quit C++ in 2001 before all  the bells and whistles that have been added hence including STL, etc.. Of course I can readily pick up all that because I am polyglot, but I prefer not to use C++.

warptangent was a talented coder and active Monero developer but not "core team" member and certainly not a forum personality (I think he may have posted once or twice). I'm pretty sure he was younger than you. Out of respect for his family's privacy I would rather not go into further details about his death (and I also don't know that much)

Announcement was here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4c9wh8/a_fond_goodbye_to_our_friend_and_contributor/


The blockchain node, which includes most of the core logic for managing accounts, rewards, tokens, etc. is all C++. The web site back end is closed source so we don't know anything about it, or at least I don't. They have several developers (full time I believe) with apparently different specialities.

I understand that transparency and widely distributed mining will be important to some, many or perhaps most investors. I am not trying to say that you all can't or shouldn't point out such differences in projects.

My point is that it gets annoying. What we really want to read about are more inspiring topics.

For example, I find the topic of discussion in the Monero Speculation thread to be so useless. If I had to waste my time reading all that crap in that thread, I think I'd rather quit entirely. Once in a while there is some topic there I am interested and most often because it is something I posted there (but I don't dare post there again because it usually gets nasty).

I'd like to talk about more exciting and inspiring topics.

Just so tired of all the negativity and inane topics about exchange shorting, 20 day moving averages, etc.. The buggers in my nose are more interesting.

He and I shared the affliction of illness, but apparently his was sudden decline and mine chronic.

I don't use a DB in my coin design, as that is horrible for performance.

That is reasonable but if if you are going to use a DB, LMDB is about as lightweight as it comes because it uses memory mapping and access to hot data is as fast as regular memory. Of course, much rests on knowing how to use it properly, and although the Monero implementation is getting better, that part is unfortunately still not optimal.

I suppose I should also count Howard Chu, the developer of LMDB, as a premier level Monero coder. I didn't think of him because he is relative newcomer and I also haven't personally reviewed his code (other than a few small commits, but I couldn't get much from that). But his accomplishments with LMDB, LDAP and other projects speak for themselves. He prefers to code in C, not C++.

To make some amends for my melodrama about Monero upthread (sincere feeling but still overly dramatic like a bitcher, sorry), I want to close out with my objective being to try to convince smooth to be an anarchist:

@iamnotback I think Dan and the team will be more than happy if your Zero Knowledge Transactions could be implemented in Steem. Looks like Steem now has enough funding, so you can get what you want if the work is well done. Thoughts?

New development in this story that I did not anticipate:


Btw, smooth is cashing out roughly $50,000 per week. (assuming your $5m valuation of his SP is correct)

Is that a meritocracy  ???

You can see why he would have an incentive to not speak about how it will be a disaster for those who invest in SP now (requires a 2 year lock up cashed out over 104 weeks), while he is cashing out every week. Chaching. Fools please buy Steemit and give your money to smooth.

One last follow up for posterity and we'll leave it at this mutual understanding:


Note he was forced to remain invested and 50% can only be cashed out over a 2 year period.

The following is for those were so moralistic and idealistic in the past but suddenly lost their value system because of money.


P.S.:

---

I mean he is forced to remain silent, go soft, and (by doing that lend) support to a project which intentionally misleads its user base and attempts to place its investors in a jail to force them to become menial laborers (content curators), because he compromised his values for money.

In short, he has no more ethical high ground any more. Which he sold for a few $millions (assuming he can cash out before it collapses).

He can not criticize any thing I choose to do on my project. I will remind him he already sold he ethical standing to the devil. He has lead the way and shown all of us that we should do what ever we can to maximize the money we can get, regardless of ethics.

Btw, I salute him. I am an anarchist. More power to him. I hope this is the end of his (or let's say Monero's community) moralizing crap. Altcoins are not church. Instamines, premines, stealthmines, PoShit-Stake consensus systems, and what ever any one wants to do. Let them all suffer the free market outcome of their choices.

r0ach and I warned about Ethereum in the Ethereum Paradox thread. Smooth was conspicuously absent from that thread. I never saw smooth heavily criticise Ethereum. Yet those of us who did, were correct. smooth was all over Dash like flies on honey. Obviously because it was the competitor to his Monero project.

I've learned that humans are always tied to their vested interests, and I suppose that includes myself also.

  :o looks like smooth has officially lost his white knight CJW (Crypto Justice Warrior) sheriff's badge.

wow, i can't believe i just now saw this. i have screenshotted it for the record and will spread it far and wide.
i was wondering why monero went up in price for no reason lately. i figured it was just speculators again and was waiting for the 50% crash like last time it doubled recently. or maybe that was just smooth back then manipulating the monero market with his profits from his new ninja launched, fastmined stealthmined instamine, 80% premined coin.

i'm still reading my way through all the different steemit ann threads (hmm, now where have i seen that tactic before, monero) and trying to piece together everything that went down but man does it look bad so far. i really liked the steem concept and was investigating it and thinking about investing more but the unfair launch and distribution is the worst i've seen. i thought the monero fastmine was bad or that the 4 week, 3 week, 2 week, 1 week pow to pos coins had bad distribution models but a 80% premine takes the cake!
is that 80% of the total coin supply or 80% of the current coin supply?  i know smooth and others like to lie and conflate the two when trolling dash so i want to get it right. since most of the new coin supply is created from staking not pow i guess it doesn't really matter, because just like those instamined/fastmined pow to pos coins the damage is done and controlled by only a few like smooth. what is the total steem coin supply supposed to be?


unbelievable that after all the years of dash trolling he goes and supports something like this, beyond hypocritical.
dash had a ~10% (total coin supply) accidental instamine (2 million coins) that went to the early miners and has since been heavily distributed or at least more so than btc and others. hell, satoshi and hal alone have over 2 million btc that we know of. probably only a handful of others hold several million btc as well.

The developers mined 80% of what was the current supply at the time of the pure PoW period.

Of that, they had and have a stated (and reasonably transparent) plan to sell 20%, give away 40% to new users (creating accounts on the platform requires funding), and keep 20%.

Not total supply, which doesn't exist since the coin has an inflationary supply model. Over time the initial distribution is essentially erased as stake share is continually redistributed to people who deliver the most value by creating highly-upvoted content (whether they are current coin owners or not).

BTW, I haven't bought any significant quantity (i.e. <1000 coins total) of Monero in the past year, so no I have nothing to do with the price rise, nor do I know who does.

Slight correction. Note that apparently due to the very high interest rate paid on STEEM POWER tokens (https://steemit.com/steemit/@anonymint/it-s-so-easy-to-become-a-millionaire-with-steem) during the first months (was much higher than the current 354%), and also being able to upvote their own posts with greatest voting power that 80% got further concentrated towards 90% or at least did not dilute much yet.

Also note that the give away to free signups is currently paused apparently while they improve the security, while the interest rate remains high.

Readers, smooth has stated he would be against the "pre"-mine. He did what any rational person would do if the potential for $4 million was laid out in front of you. Even if he had tried to publicize the "pre"-mine, the founders were intent on relaunching and doing what ever they had to. So I presume they would have ended up just switching to a premine if necessary.

Also my understanding is that smooth is interested in ways to onboard the masses into blockchain and crypto. Experiments have value, because they lead to better implementations of the key idea.

Note I have not necessarily jumped on board the Steem bandwagon. I am still doing due diligence.

I didn't suggest otherwise. The dilution (of SP, as opposed to STEEM) as I described above is never extreme but takes place over a period of years.

The interest rate is somewhat illusory. The rate of inflation is also extremely high during the initial distribution (higher than the stated long term target of 110%); with >90% of Steem powered up, the SP was and is being diluted despite the high interest.

Voting for your own posts helps a little, but the largest collectors of author rewards have not been the developers, but instead successful bloggers who came later.

You also need to consider that he holds a delegate spot, which is worth $4,800 per day or $1,752,000 per year. Call me crazy, but he is being overpaid by a lot. I would do it for less than 10% of that in a heart beat. There is no way each delegate is bringing that much value.

Lol. I don't know how stakeholders aren't raising a big fuss about this. I guess everyone doesn't want to miss out on up votes from a whale because they spoke up about it. Delegates are whales.

Just add it to the laundry list of how unfair Steemit is.

So you understand why I am contemplating forking it (but the source doesn't allow forking so we have to start from scratch). But the devil is in the details. There is a massive amount of work to do to duplicate and exceed what they already have.

I am busy analyzing their strengths and weaknesses.

Also analyzing if the concept is even worthwhile.

Golden Rule: never rewrite a project from scratch unless it is unsalvageable.

Is Smooth a Hypocrite ?
Yes.

And lack of Ethics, and conflict of interest, and...

Just passing by.
Every person who had a conversation with smooth could smell a rat. People knew that long time ago.


 ;)

whoa whoa.. bigrcanada, smooth is one person only you sly rat...and look at these DASH shills moving here like a pack of hungry/noisy hyenas.

let's assume that smooth is a hypocrite...you all should welcome him to your hypocrite club

instead.. i smell jealousy..YOU HYPOCRITES haha

Lots of is whining in this thread.

That seems like a reasonable rate of pay to me. Do you have any idea how many hours he has spend helping the Monero and Aeon community without asking for any monetary support? There are professional athletes that make 20x that amount per week and do less to help society than smooth.

AFAIK the 400,000+ Aeon development fund has not made any payments to smooth despite all the work he has put in. He answers technical questions for free all the time even about projects he is not involved with.

The fact that he is still here helping people proves that he cares. He could be on an island somewhere drinking cocktails but instead he keeps working and helping others who are less knowledgeable than he is.

Correct. The only payments were for bounties for mining software (not to me).

balance: 458951.354894133816, unlocked balance: 458951.354894133816