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How can they claim co-sovereignty when they are a lapdog state of the EU?

Maybe Spain has about as much chance of grabbing Gibraltar as Argentina has of grabbing the Falklands.

Spain is a joke now. They are not a sovereign nation. 400 years ago, the Spanish Empire was one of the largest nations in the world (w.r.t surface area and total population), although much of it was achieved as a result of butchering hundreds of millions of native Americans. Their past sins are fast catching up with them now.

I think now they are too late but no harm in trying again

Spain will never have any rights over Gibraltor unless the people of Gibraltor vote for it. I think the people in Gibraltor would rather cede their nationality to Italy or Morocco over joining Spain. It is devious timing on behalf of Spain but their sovereignty not going to be decided by another country. For all the problems Spain is currently suffering, they should really have better things to do - particularly giving Catalonia a fair chance to vote.

Why wouldn't they do that? Gibraltar is nothing but a mere English colony. And now that England is no longer in EU Spain is stronger.

Here is a ranking of the top world economies

    United States. The U.S. economy is the largest in the world in terms of nominal GDP (measured at current prices in U.S. dollars). ...
    China. ...
    Japan. ...
    Germany. ...
    United Kingdom. ...
    France. ...
    Brazil. ...
    Italy.

The EU isn't even mentioned, that's how important it is. :)

Lol, that's only because you're the one making the ranking. If you classify taking EU into account it's in the top 3 economy.

You're not very bright using arguments like these. The EU is a trading bloc, so is worth the collective value of all members which makes (or made - before the UK left) it the biggest economy in the world. Why are you splitting out Italy, France, Germany and any others when they build trade deals as a group.

In the last years the EU was ranked 1 or 2.

Well I think you've got the poin t with most of the "leaving" group ^^

If the EU was a trading block, then we wouldn't be leaving. It's because it's the precursor to TTIP that we need to get out fast.

They can't. Gibraltar was awarded to Britain in the Treaty of Utrecht which was signed by Philip V of Spain in 1713 and awarded Gibraltar to Britain in perpetuity (Good Queen Anne signed that Treaty on behalf of Britain).

They would need to tear up that Treaty, but then that invalidates treaties in general and all the treaties that underpin the European Union...

Or they could just take it from England as they are part of EU so they're largely stronger...

The UK has nukes, spain doesnt,

Or we could just stop go on holiday there and ruin Spain completely.

What are they going to do, send out the Spanish Armada to take it?  OH WAIT....  ;D

UK should consider Spain's demand an act of war, and drop tactical nukes on .gov held areas of Madrid until they agree to STFU.

And that goes double for Buenos Aires.

I'm so sick of the endless, over-entitled demands of the Papist nations for free shit.

LMK when Spain returns Perejil and the Chafarinas to Morocco, as Rabat demands (http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/09/17/inenglish/1347895561_857013.html).   ::)

UK has nukes it can use only with USA agreements, EU has nukes.

Or you could just lower lightly tourist income by stoping going while the rest of EU goes more to Spain as no one will go to UK.

Pff...

You do understand that UK army is shit compared to France plus Germany? And are you even aware that France got tactical nukes too? But that it doesn't need the agreement of USA to use it (contrary to UK).

EU is a military alliance before anything else. Try to attack Spain and your country will be destroyed before you can think about it again.

Yah, that's what the corrupt warmongering regime in Argentina told their people when they decided to invade the Falklands.

How's that working for the Peronistas?

How's that working for all the dead sailors at the bottom of the sea rotting in the wrecked Belgrano?

France won't, and German can't, do anything about Spain's hilarious request to annex Gibraltar, any more than Morocco can take the islands off its coast from Spain.

You can accept history, or you can deal with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy_Submarine_Service#Active_submarines

Spain's armed forces are great at pushing around Africans.  Beating Her Majesty's armed forces and reversing 400 years of UK sovereignty?  Not so much....

what is gibraltar's status? is it a full part of the uk or a crown dependency like the channel islands?

if i was gibraltan i wouldn't really give a shit about joining spain. it's not as if they're gonna send you to a concentration camp and you'd have dual citizenship. guess that isn't how the real ones feel.

FYI, "in perpetuity" means "forever" not "until we change our minds."

Case closed.

If Madrid.gov wants to create conflict over Gibraltar as a distraction from their own sorry state of affairs, they will enjoy the same measure of success as the Peronistas did with the Falklands.

France won't and German can't?
You think after UK leaving the EU members won't answer a call of arms from a member against UK?

Come, if you want war it's easy to go. EU was here to prevent war, so war seems like the only real possibility after leaving.

And if you like facts so much go check this ranking and tell me again that France plus Germany plus Spain is not enough to put UK back to its place.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing-europe.asp

Comparing Falklands to a fight against whole Europe... That's why old people shouldn't vote.

Isn't everyone getting a little ahead of themselves predicting nuclear war here?

German armed forces are neutered, per their post WW2 constitution.

France has no national interest in helping reclaim Gibraltar.  Doing so would be against it, as it goes against the principles of diplomacy to assist Spain in reneging on their perpetual concession.

UK's Navy is top notch; Thatcher saw to that after the (relative) difficulty of retaking the Falklands.

Spain's Navy would quickly join its antecedent Armada on the seafloor, in Davy Jones' Locker.


"Whole Europe" would not help Spain go back on its word, in violation of longstanding Treaty.

Lol, I was simply answering to the completely stupid comment of the Thatcher old fag lover suggesting the nuking of Spain ^^

Of course the idea is completely ridiculous. But an armed conflict... Well it might happen.

Of course, Whole Europe including France wouldn't have ANY interest in putting UK back on it's Island, showing strength of the EU, keeping the only access between Mediteranean see and Atlantic ocean inside the EU ::)

I absolutely don't see any interest here ><

Yup. Especially as most of the european countries are underfunding their defence budgets and begging the UK to send troops to defend against the wicked Russians.

No-one has sided with Spain over Gibraltar for over 300 years...

AHAHAHA REKT.

These witless Millennials (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1525848.msg15362988#msg15362988) are the worst, no how bad "old fags" like Corbyn may be.

They're all "But muh EU  :'(  we need it to promote environmental and social and economic justice and stawp global woarming and racism!!1!  :'("

 :D

Someone regretting thatcher can't even understand the concept of ideology...

The British army is shit, but the Spanish army is even worse. And additionally, the Brits have nuclear weapons and the Spaniards don't even have thermobaric bombs. However, there is a geographic advantage to Spain. Gibraltar is located in the Western Mediterranean, and it will be difficult for the Brits to move their troops to Gibraltar.

The British army is so bad that the Americans had to get them to teach them how to fight. :)

Unfortunately it's underfunded, and suffering from reduced resources at the moment. Maybe now that the EU won't be leeching off us, we can boost our economy by spending a bit more on our defences, and that includes the police, customs and the doctors and nurses.

Like the foolish macho Pernonistas, some people really believe there's no iron fist in the Queen's velvet glove.  That is intentional.

BAF include SBS, SAS, and Gurkhas.  Bad idea to mess with guys with a knife named after them.

https://i.imgur.com/5Ettxb8.jpg

Spain isn't going to get Gibraltar.  Suggesting otherwise is just another way for sore losers whining about Brexit to express their butthurt and poutrage.   :D

i dont think their past sins will catch up with them very soon. because spain is still a powerful country so it can take over gibraltar. i think we will see its happening very soon.

It's more likely Spain will be taken over by Morocco and go back to being Andalusia.   ;D

Nothing is going to happen to Gibraltor. Even if we leave the EU - we are still friends and will continue to trade with these countries. Gibraltor has always been a source of friction between Spain and the UK, but even if it meant fighting all of Europe, it's not joining Spain unless the people voted for it. This means, if someone invaded Gibraltor (a hostile act) then a hostile act would return it to the UK. No nukes need to be involved. Calm down guys.

You know who else takes over countries that didn't want it? Dictatorships. So if you want to prove that the EU is everything that the British people voted against, go for it.

Can't anyone understand that any agression towards Spain wouldn't result in a Spain - UK conflict but in a EU - UK conflict. And EU has nuclear power and doesn't need USA agreements to use it.

Spain would be the aggressor if they tried to take Gibraltar by force, defying the rule of law as defined by a 400 year old treaty.

It's not going to happen.  Get over it.  Britannia and America rule the waves, not Brussels.

https://i.imgur.com/tKijCIu.jpg

According to legend, the Goddess's trident was bestowed upon her (https://reaganlibrary.archives.gov/archives/speeches/1982/31182b.htm) by the great Iron Lady and Ronaldus Maximus....

And that's mainly to prove the contrary that an agression over Gibraltar might be an excellent point.

That wouldn't even be an agression. Just a "wanna go? Ok but we keep that, we need it more".

You are always implying that the UK would be the aggressor here when Spain is trying to steal land. Gibraltor has been under British rule for a long time and have actively warned off Spanish attempts to interfere. The Spanish are in no position to talk - they refuse to cede territory back to Morocco which defies their "territorial integrity" angle that they are so fond of using. Spain vs UK, EU vs UK.. makes no difference to the British but it's never going to happen. If you really think France is going to start dropping nuclear bombs on the UK, you are delusional.

Pax Americana.

America can't say anything at what's happening in EU. France has 7 nuclear submarines with 150 nukes on them. It makes it impossible for USA to interfere in European business in a military way.

No difference to the British? Damn I thought British had better military advisor than that xD

I never said France is going to drop nukes on UK. I just said UK couldn't drop nukes on Spain BECAUSE France would answer by using nuclear forces too. That's all I said, I'm not dumb enough to suggest nuclear war first.

It's very saddening to read you. Are you a member of the French sovereignist? What I was trying to say to you is that all those Europeans are living in peace because of Pax Americana and that is what is keeping in check this latent dangerous force still present in Europe.

Let people be. Let people live. Let people love.

The point being made, which is obviously too much for your brain to handle, is that it doesn't matter whether you fight one person or a hundred, if what you are fighting for is what is right. There is never going to be a fight so all this talk is meaningless.

Are british people democrats?
A 96% majority in Gibraltar to remain in the EU isn't something which can be ignored. I can't think of a similar majority in any other election or referendum. Spain wants to make it like Andorra, but I guess Gibraltar should become independent.

Most of the European states and people are on monetary life support and still are fomenting and dream of making their failed states bigger failure... It's beyond me.

The point being made which you all seem to ignore is that I'm not the one suggesting the use of nukes and the start of a war but merely explaining such conflict wouldn't be an easy fight for UK and that UK would certainly lose ><

Thank you for being the first intelligent comment here. Of course a middle arrangement like Gibraltar becoming independant seems like a much better solution than the nuclear war the old-thattcher-lover is asking for.

How about this? Britain will cede Gibraltar when Spain ceded control of the Catalans. looks that sounds fair, so this will be the beginning of world war III.

An independent Gibraltar? It is not going to happen. Gibraltar is a small rock, and the population and surface area is not large anough to exist as a sovereign nation. And now they have two choices. Either to remain as a part of the United Kingdom, or to merge with Spain. Now, why the hell on earth they would merge with Spain? Especially when Spain is inching closer to an economic meltdown?

To stay in the EU and keep the flow of exchanges that is their only source of revenue maybe?

Breaking news - Spain demands suffrage for the Gibraltar apes.

You make it sound like the hapless residents are utterly dependent on free EU money subsidies, with no other way to avoid starvation.   ::)

Sources of revenue = retired/vacationing Brits that like being somewhere warm and sunny, banking, shipping, gambling, etc.

Do you actually know anything about Gibraltar?  I ask because there is a whiff of Space Ghost "I just heard about this, and I'm here to fix it!" in all this.

The Peace of Utrecht will not be broken over some Brexit butthurt.


This is you, basically:

"ZOMG U GUIZ I JUST HERD CATALONIA IS RIGHTFULLY THE PROPERTAY OF FRANCE QUICK WE MUST CORRECT THE UNDEMOCRATIC INJUSTICE OF THE TREATY OF CORBIAL UPVOTE IF YOU AGREEE!!11!"

Gibraltar is in a better financial shape than the FUK. They could live free and prosper like Monaco, but it badly needs Spain. I don't think there are many poor people in Gibraltar, but many are crossing the border everyday for their shopping.

I assume that FUK means "free united kingdom" after Brexit.

No, it means Formerly United Kingdom. When Scotland ad Ireland will be gone, it will be down as the K. Or maybe the kingdom of england. No cap needed.

Your logical error is comparing the giant UK apple to the tiny Gibraltar orange.  There are legitimately comparable little places in the UK that make Gibraltar look like Somalia, but More Is Different.

It's like when people whine about the USA not adopting policies that work in tiny Scandinavian locales.

"But muh Policy X worked in ICELAND, when not here too?"   ::)

Disclaimer: I actually like what Iceland did to the banksters and their .gov enablers!   :P

Scotland will be gone... but Northern Ireland and Wales will remain as a part of the United Kingdom. The Catholics still don't have the majority in Ulster, and until they are able to achieve that, NI will remain in the UK, along with Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark, Herm, Isle of Man, Anguilla, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, and countless other dependencies.