Bitcoin Forum

Interesting article, could have huge implications for a certain cryptocurrency that just got added as currency on darknet.
Direct association with darknet = Full attention of the FBI

Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet... 

I have said it many times... We should never court or market to the darknet or Deep Web.  That is not where our future lies.   Let others cater to that market if they wish.

It's just the fighting fase... you know what's next  ;)

Please note, I say this with much love to the Dash community as I have witnessed you taking the brunt of the attacks so much of this does not apply directly to you. As this is a plea for both communities and is also posted in the Monero thread, I feel the need to post it here as well.


I am a long time lurker and holder of both Monero and Dash. I have made a lot of money holding both but making money has never been the goal. 80% of my cash worth is spread between both currencies because I do not like the direction in which our world is moving and I want to ensure that myself and the people I care about are well taken care of when the facade that now envelopes our society is finally lifted.

I have a plea for both the Monero and Dash communities.


The world markets are at all time highs, standing on a cliff, held steady only by increasingly desperate central banks and supported by governments that have yet to realize that neo-classical economics has failed. Well-intentioned but poorly executed ideas such as the ACA and Eurozone Refugee Policy continue to disintegrate and the media conglomerates appear dedicated to perpetuating fear so they can pad their margins. Our elected leaders are now preying upon this fear to usurp our freedoms and those campaigning for office are using this fear to manipulate their way into power. It is clear that the status quo will not change willingly and will turn to increasingly extreme measures to maintain their control. Our world is in a precarious situation but our involvement in Monero and Dash does allow us to do something about it.

I believe that until recently, true freedom and democracy has not been possible. It is only now, due to advances in technology and novel ideas such as the blockchain and DAO's, that we finally have the tools to ensure our freedom, regardless of what legislation our corrupt and misguided governments decide to pass in the public's "best interest".

The only way to solve many of the problems we face is to create technology that is impervious to government intervention. Where the people get to choose how they wish to transact and what they choose to purchase in complete privacy. I know there is continuous debate regarding which technology is more secure, or scalable, or a multitude of other things but I think the one thing both communities can agree on is they are both vast improvements over fiat transactions and even bitcoin.

The announcement from Jaxx regarding the required removal of Dash from their iOS wallet is a perfect example of the uphill battle anonymous currencies are facing.

https://twitter.com/diiorioanthony/status/771017555930705920
https://twitter.com/diiorioanthony/status/771033721881362432

While both technologies are taking different approaches to creating a digital equivalent of cash, the greatest hurdle they face will be adoption and this will not happen if the current powers that be continue to discriminate against them. This hurdle becomes a lot smaller if both communities work together.

Right now, the combined marketcap of Monero and Dash is ~200 mil which is miniscule compared to the entrenched systems. In fact, the entire marketcap of the top 100 crypto's is only 11 billion. I trade the S&P eMini during the day and on average, in the last minute of regular market trading, 50+ billion dollars worth of contracts will change hands. In one minute, five times more money changes hands than the top 100 cryptos combined marketcap.

Monero and Dash are currently the two rats in the corner fighting over a crumb while the corrupt banks and remittance companies sit at the table and feast on the entire pie. If we work together, we can have a real shot at taking a larger slice of the pie (while actually benefiting society) and believe me, there is more than enough to go around.

If you are just in Monero or Dash to make a quick buck, I imagine you stopped reading some time ago. If you are still here, I urge you to expand your scope of thinking and imagine what could be accomplished if both currencies were to cooperate.

If I dare to dream, I would envision a future where there are XMR and DASH trading pairs on exchanges, where we encourage others to use both networks, where the communities help test each others releases, where they combine forces to help both get added as payment options for major services and where ideas on how to improve both currencies are openly shared and discussed. If anyone is open to creating a new bitcointalk thread for mutual and friendly discussion of both cryptos, I think that would be a great first step.

We are all in this battle together and I believe the only way we can fail is by remaining divided. The real enemy is the entrenched systems that dictate our lives. Please do your part to help create a more cooperative environment, regardless of your opinion on which technology is superior.

Ariel, I'm going to be polite.

You do not consider that the Monero block chain is unverifiable because it is completely opaque. If you want to "trust the math" and believe no loop hole will ever exist allowing coins to be inserted, changing the supply of coins, or that "the math" will never have an unforeseen hole where transactions will be detangled, something that can't happen with private send, that is fine.

However, an open blockchain, with inputs and outputs that can be seen with the naked eye, and verified is one of the cornerstones of Bitcoin's brilliance.  And Dash kept that while also providing privacy.

Because of that, I personally think Dash's privacy feature is far superior to Monero's.  Dash is solid.  You know where everything stands at any time.

And yet, once again, Dash's superior privacy, fungibility and verifiable blockchain is only one of the many features Dash provides in creating a world class currency that will be used by a majority of the human population in only half a generation's time.  But good luck with Monero, but if you want to use your funds for illegal purposes, please use a minimum 8 rounds of mixing in Dash, and leave the Monero at home.  I really don't trust it, and fear for your safety.

You think you know it all, you think you can trust "the math" but these cryptographic proofs have weaknesses that can be exploited.  Some have been discovered, as in secp256r1, and there could be other weaknesses that have yet to be revealed.

If you want to "trust the math"

can't they all coexist?

can't they all coexist?

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

The majority of discussion has been using facts to base claims about Dash and Monero.

"Bashing" is the term used when the opposing side of the discussion does not like how the discussion is going so they play the victim card.

A lot of people appear to have missed the point in my original post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg16103807#msg16103807) asking both communities to be more cooperative. They can still compete and use that competition to innovate and they can still critique the other technology. What I believe needs to happen though for cryptos in general to succeed is to do this in a more professional and jovial manner.

You are correct that some of the discussions have used facts and have been productive but a lot of the conversations have also been without facts and very childish.

Here is just one of many examples that I do believe is "bashing" as it does not reference facts, evidence or data of any kind and instead uses verbiage like "scam" and "snakeoil".

https://imgur.com/a/IiwTb

Here is another example where "DashHole" is used.

https://imgur.com/a/fl4jX

It is a known problem that members of the Monero community actively make aggressive claims about other technology without providing evidence to back these claims up. In the last example, one of the Monero team is quoted in stating they cannot control members of their community. That is true and I believe stifling free speech always leads to bad outcomes so that is not something I am advocating for in anyway.

The one thing that can be done is for someone from the Monero team to make a statement that they do not support members of their community making claims without providing evidence. They could make that post in this thread and it won't have to be mentioned again. That way at least myself and others in the Monero community, including the aggressors, will know that the Monero team does not support this behavior and then hopefully we can move forward together in advocating for the adoption of cryptos.

By remaining silent, they are endorsing this behavior and it is off putting and unprofessional.

I have been investing and watching both Monero and Dash for over two years and am continuously embarrassed to be part of a community that acts so childish when so much is at stake. I have been vocal as of late as I am becoming increasingly worried at the direction our society is moving and believe that cooperation is more necessary now than it ever has been.


Speaking of stifling free speech, I was extremely disappointed that my plea to the Monero and Dash communities was censored on the Monero subreddit: http://imgur.com/a/Cqnz1

My plea is still on the bitcointalk Monero thread which is great but I'm not sure I understand why it was removed on the Monero subreddit.

It is a little hypocritical that the Monero team believes it cannot control certain members of its community but then actively censors other members of that same community that are only trying to bring a stop to the unproductive hostility.


I believe both communities should let the past be the past and open a new door towards cooperation but we cannot do that without the leaders setting an example for others to follow.

As the topic of why masternode owners are likely long term investors was brought up, I'm happy to chime in.

During the day I'm a derivatives trader. I really don't trust our markets so I never hold futures contracts for very long and whenever I do invest in something for the long term, I am always looking for the most yield with the least amount of risk.

Currently, I could park my money in treasuries, bonds, dividend paying stocks or even write my own options. What becomes fairly apparent when looking into all of these though is that the yield on both the safer and riskier investments is so low right now that at this point in time, they don't make a lot of sense unless those are your only options.

While Dash is not the only crypto I hold, it is currently the only one that does offer an inviting yield on your investment. On my masternodes I currently make 10% annual ROI. About 1.75% of that does get taken away whenever I convert masternode payments back to fiat due to various exchange fees but the remaining 8.25% is still a fantastic return.

While I know this is anecdotal evidence, I do think its safe to assume that a good portion of other masternode owners have performed a similar assessment of what will offer the greatest "guaranteed" ROI and chose to invest in Dash and its masternodes because of this. All investments have risks and your initial investment could go down in value. Dash is no exception but considering that I actually have voting power as to the direction of my investment, I feel comfortable holding Dash for the long term over lets say Intel or Apple stock where I could be earning a much smaller dividend with lower risk but would not have the same voting power.

Without incentivized nodes, I am beginning to doubt the long term viability of other currencies as I think they will eventually face the same problems that bitcoin is now. I really hope more currencies begin to incorporate incentivized nodes and I know there are several that are.

More like "The battle of the scams"

Who can make the most monkeys fling their poo the furthest.

The only way to liquidate anon coins is to give all your credentials to an exchange.

DNA, ip, or ID.

PICK YOUR SERVILE POISON.

How ironic.

Exchange one handler for another.

If you want your old handler you can keep your old handler.......

Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet and that Dash privacy solution is totally optional.  

 ::) i know you have investments in dash masternodes..and threats to dash is also a threat to your investment...i understand that.

BUT..you cannot strip humans of their emotions.. i recommend putting on your "dash t-shirt" and drink your coffee from "dash mug" and let's have some fun  ;)

...

i have a different vision, i prefer fighting/competition..it makes each other stronger and innovative..

i even like attacks, i wanted monero attacked, DASH attacked, Bitcoin attacked... attack everywhere.. we don't want to release a crypto currency to the whole world that will fail and bring billions of $ down with it..

think of crypto like a bitcoin dojo with satoshi nakamoto as sensei

monero and dash are sparring partners, include zcash too..after they toughen up they will leave the bitcoin dojo and find their path in the world.

regarding shills, they are my favorites..i neutralize their lies and deception...i also have fun along the way  ;D

regarding speculators, they are part of the ecosystem...people gamble, trade, invest, make a few bucks etc.. that's life.

Why is NAV and SDC out of the picture?
I've read here in the forum where they said that SDC and NAV has better technology than those mentioned in the OP.  If you can check it on bittrex these two coins are also being traded well.

Dash has become really popular as compared to those two.but it also comes with anonymity privacy.its better to invest in dash rather than monero as it market is rising and price has greatly rised up.

I disagree. Dash's master nodes are not a good way to make your coins anonymous because "a government, group of hackers, other entity, or even an individual bought many masternodes (there would be no way to know if this occured), and if the transaction passed through a route where all of the masternodes were owned by that entity, then the transaction could be traced by that entity."

If you want to read more about the comparisons of anonymous coins read it here https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php

That should be enough information for you to know the difference and the superiority of Monero.

Ariel, I'm going to be polite.

You do not consider that the Monero block chain is unverifiable because it is completely opaque. If you want to "trust the math" and believe no loop hole will ever exist allowing coins to be inserted, changing the supply of coins, or that "the math" will never have an unforeseen hole where transactions will be detangled, something that can't happen with private send, that is fine.

However, an open blockchain, with inputs and outputs that can be seen with the naked eye, and verified is one of the cornerstones of Bitcoin's brilliance.  And Dash kept that while also providing privacy.

Because of that, I personally think Dash's privacy feature is far superior to Monero's.  Dash is solid.  You know where everything stands at any time.

And yet, once again, Dash's superior privacy, fungibility and verifiable blockchain is only one of the many features Dash provides in creating a world class currency that will be used by a majority of the human population in only half a generation's time.  But good luck with Monero, but if you want to use your funds for illegal purposes, please use a minimum 8 rounds of mixing in Dash, and leave the Monero at home.  I really don't trust it, and fear for your safety.

You think you know it all, you think you can trust "the math" but these cryptographic proofs have weaknesses that can be exploited.  Some have been discovered, as in secp256r1, and there could be other weaknesses that have yet to be revealed.

If you want to "trust the math"

If you want to "trust the math"

yes, we want to trust the math. that is what cryptography is for..is what crypto currency is for.

back to privacy..
.........