Bitcoin Forum

TAT.ASICMINER Asset, by ThickAsThieves.Investments

TAT.ASICMINER represents fractional shares of the ASICMINER Mining Company. ASICMINER is a market leader in the bitcoin mining industry, creating various mining equipment for sale, as well as running their own mining farm.

Proceeds from mining and sale of equipment are distributed to shareholders as weekly dividends. This asset represents fractional passthrough shares of the underlying asset, receiving a proportional amount of dividends for each share.

This is asset is being offered for the following purposes:
1. To provide an additional venue for investors to buy or sell ASICMINER shares more easily by splitting the shares.
2. To provide an easy way for ASICMINER shareholders to reinvest their dividends to maximize compounded interest opportunties.
3. To consolidate enough ASICMINER shares so as to reach 5,000 whole shares, thus increasing their inherent value with potential access to ASICMINER’s established and future board member benefits, namely any hardware opportunities ASICMINER provides exclusively to board members.

Shares
Each 1 share of TAT.ASICMINER represents 1/100th of a share of ASICMINER maintained and verified by either Friedcat or any officially designated exchange, and has rights to 1/100th of the dividends of a whole ASICMINER share.

Dividends
Each TAT.ASICMINER share has the right to 95% of its respective dividends. 5% will be retained for asset management fees. The amount of the dividend is defined as the same amount distributed by ASICMINER to the shares held by the issuer for this asset. Dividends will be paid within 48 hours or less of confirmed payments from ASICMINER.

Voting Rights
Any public votes presented by ASICMINER will be decided by the issuer for all asset shares at his own discretion.

Quantity and Source of Shares
Shares cannot be imported or exported by shareholders, but can be freely bought and sold. Shares may be imported at will by the issuer alone.

Additional Dividends or Benefits from Board Member Status
Once the passthrough reaches 5,000 whole ASICMINER shares (500,000 split shares) it may receive a board member seat. If board member status is confirmed, and Friedcat follows through with the plan to give each board member a trial ASICMINER mining board, any income generated will be shares as follows:

85% of the mining income will be paid out to the shareholders of TAT.ASICMINER on the same weekly dividend schedule ASICMINER currently uses. At the discretion of the TAT.ASICMINER issuer, these extra dividends may be distributed sooner.

NOTE: This passthrough exists on both Bitfunder.com and BTCT.co, but acts as only ONE asset, and is thus only eligible to share any board member benefits as ONE seat, among ALL TAT.ASICMINER shareholders.

Reserved Rights
Issuer reserves the following rights.
1. To change schedule of dividends to be in line with any changes in schedule the underlying asset may enact.
2. To change the % of board mining profits withheld if expenses, like electricity, are not covered by the 15% portion being withheld.
3. To make changes to this contract that represent the best interests of its shareholders
4. To correct and clarify any gross errors or details herein that may prove to be open to misinterpretation.
5. To limit the total amount of shares allowed within the asset once it has reached 5000 whole shares (500,000 split shares).

Dissolution
In the event that the issuer chooses to, or is forced to, close this asset for any reason, the following methods may be used for dissolution in any combination:
1. A new operator may be vetted and chosen by ThickAsThieves to take over control of the asset.
2. Shares may be bought back from shareholders at a reasonable market value.
3. Shares may be converted to direct whole shares and redistributed to shareholder e-mail accounts with Friedcat.
4. Shares may be converted into equivalent whole shares on any other existing ASICMINER passthrough or exchange and redistributed to shareholders.

Issuer Info
ThickAsThieves is a Tier 5 BitFunder trader, and has offered identity information privately to BitFunder as a gesture of good faith, and an avenue for emergency contact.

A “dead man’s switch” will be implemented in order to pass control of this asset to a safe secondary operator in the case of the issuer’s untimely demise or hospitalization.

ThickAsThieves makes no guarantees in the case of unexpected behavior of the underlying asset company or the decisions of ASICMINER and/or BITFOUNTAIN. This is only a passthrough, and the actions of ASICMINER will drive the definition of this asset in kind.

IRC: on Freenode, ThickAsThieves
E-mail: tat.investments -at- gmail.com

Looking forward to this so I can take my G.ASICMINER-PT dividends and buy some of your split shares until I have enough for a full share.  ;D

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.

When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.

The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.

Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.

.b

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.
When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.
The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.
Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.
.b

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.

When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.

The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.

Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.

.b

I posted on the other 1/100 PT in response to a similar question regarding fees.  Running the ASICMINER-PT has been very time consuming, way more so than I originally anticipated.  If I were not seeing benefit at the BTC-TC level (mind share and trade volume) for my efforts, it would be very difficult to justify to the wife why I'm responding to PM's all night.  ;)  DeaDTerra's free PT was the first of it's kind, and has put downward pressure on ASICMINER-PT to be competitive, but with these 1/100 PT's I think they're providing a unique product, and you definitely want to keep the manager in a PT motivated.

Cheers.

I understand it takes some work to cope with requests, but c'mon... 5% lost in profit is a massive cost over the lifetime of a shareholding for people that buy and hold. Traders, perhaps the true audience for this asset, wouldn't mind, so they would essentially be trading this like there's no tomorrow. The burden of activity would come from those, not from the people who want to invest long-term.

In essence, this is a 5% tax on investors to fund traders. Instead, impose a ridiculous fee on transfers and other activities that actually cost time. Then, traders would pay for what actually takes time while longer term investors could get away with a fee that resembles their burden on the operator.

I like the way you have motioned this for your PT; one transfer per month is free, after that, you pay.

.b

I think the time breakdown for me is very roughly:

30% Answering PM's asking about ASICMINER-PT and ASICMINER.
30% Reading threads and responding.  (kind of PR. mostly just keeping facts straight.)
30% Managing transfers.
10% Moving divs when they come in, checking to make sure the right amount came in, scheduling divs, manually issuing divs that are screwed up because they're mid-transfer with Friedcat.  ;)

The first two categories are difficult to value, and yet are valuable to all investors in your asset. 

The other interesting consideration here is that long-term investors when they get to 100-ish shares can sell them and buy up to a long-term holding situation direct with ASICMINER or one of the 1 to 1 PT's.

I would say the first two are valuable to the asset management more than to investors. News about AM is important to investors, and I don't think that should be in the hands of any PT.

There's by far enough information about both AM and for PTs in general.

The information parts of your estimate can to some extent be handled far better with some information management (and, with all due respect, both friedcat and you suck in that area). A web page, a FAQ link (here are the 5 most asked questions and their answers to which you can refer), and a thread here should reduce the amount of work significantly.

To me, the point of the idea is to support two scenarios first and foremost. One is fractional share DRIP, the other is to lower the barrier for new investors and better utilize investment potential. The way I see these offerings now, they are primarily targeting traders, which is fine, but it does so at the cost of buy-and-hold investors.

We'll see how the market reacts, but at these rates, I wouldn't buy. I'm in this for the long haul, though, so trading is more or less out of the question, even if I do sell and rebuy at times.

.b

On the first two, imagine if a PT operator didn't respond to requests for a while.  Word gets out, liquidity disappears, no one wants to buy in anymore, leaving current shareholders no way out if something comes up and they need cash.  That's the sort of value I was seeing for existing shareholders.

OT somewhat, but I appreciate your frank take on the information management side of things.  I don't really want to put up a whole separate web page, but I've been thinking I need to shift more info from the OP on the forums into the details tab on the exchange.  Thoughts for other areas of improvement?  (maybe shoot me a PM)  I kind of like the idea of deferring to your blog.  ;)

Well, there's a difference between wanking and pulling your dick off. Complete lack of response is not the alternative to writing the same response a bunch of times because the information isn't easily available.

Right now, and I fear this may be the case quickly for the 100 PTs too, information and answers are burried in hundreds of pages of forum discussions. Shooting a PM to the operator is much easier and certainly contributes to the burden.

However, if there was a single place that contained the bulk of most frequently asked questions, a list of resources, references to important forum posts, etc, the operator can refer communication to that place. Whether that's a maintained forum post, a web page, or something else is beside the point, but it would probably help tremendously in keeping communication needs in check.

Hey TAT, when will the first dividends be passed?  What is our starting date?  Because DeadTerra's shares got the 5/2 div's.  Just wondering, thanks man.

Dividends will start right after the next time Friedcat issues them, which should be next Wednesday/Thursday.

I'm committed to passing that dividend to shareholders as quickly as possible, but please note that I have built in 48-hour padding to the contract just in case something unexpected slows me down.

Also, if Friedcat issues any extra "surprise" dividends, those will be passed on the same way.

How long have you held the shares?  I'm trying to figure out what they're worth from a valuation/pricing perspective to figure out how many more to buy and at what price.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I've held some of the shares longer than others  :)

I'd suggest taking a look at the whole market and where you think it is going to assess the value, as it will surely fluctuate. Also, the fact that these shares are fractional may or may not lead to them going at a premium, but other factors might offset that too. My suggestion is to have a plan for your BTC, a projection for dividends, a projection for share value, and a decision about how long you intend to hold your shares based on that factor.

Right now the price is untested and will likely move some before it settles. Even I'm not 100% sure what to buy and sell shares for this week, but generally I take comfort in the fact that AM continues to surprise and appease the bitcoin community. This is quite evident by the mood in the official AM thread.

All of these things not only affect value in general, but the value in relation to YOUR portfolio.

So if the shares were issued yesterday, why aren't the holders getting yesterday's dividends?

divdends went out may 1st.

Thanks, Arklan.

The decision to go live after dividends was quite intentional. I did not want confusion.

Also, I figured if I waited til after,then maybe some people that already owned shares would have some loose coin to spend buying the new fractional shares :)

This might not be doable, but the only thing keeping me from hopping all over these fractional shares is the lack of ability to transfer them back to real shares. I was wanting to use my small daily dividends to invest in these fractional ones until I had enough to turn in to 1-5 real shares. I could definitely understand a small fee to do so though.

tolan77, this is a feature we may consider adding the future, but your example leads to one of the reasons (there are a few other reasons too) that this service is not offered. Such a small transaction, if done by many people, becomes extremely time-consuming for me, and the other people facilitating the transfers. It would likely be most efficient for you to simply sell your shares and buy the ones you actually want.

At this time, I am reinvesting all BTC income to buying more AM shares, so importing of shares isn't really sensible yet.

This is a service I am regularly re-assessing, so stay tuned for news.

I will have several announcements about TAT Investments & TAT.ASICMINER updates this coming week as well, stay tuned.

Figured I would give this a try. I have never bought securities before, so we will see :)

This is a great way to use the asset. Buying the split shares allows for easy reinvestment, and thus compounded interest.

Please be careful with making misleading claims. There is no guarantee for dividends, thus compounding is the wrong terminology. Also reinvestment in this context is problematic, since the funds are not directed towards bitfountain. Instead shareholders automatically re-invest, whenever bitfountain decides to withhold earnings instead of paying dividends. Thus as a shareholder you have no control over reinvestment.

I appreciate your adding insight into the topic, but please do not paint my words as misleading.
...
All investing comes with risk, and this one is no different. I simply provide another instrument for people to invest into this company, and this tool has it's own uses.
...
I have no desire to "trick" anyone or create any illusions of value. I'm simply providing a service.

So how much more are these shares gonna shoot up now that the dividend tripled from last week?

My short-term guesstimate is 2BTC sometime less than 3 weeks from now. This is not financial advice!

Wait... 1 micro-AM share = 2 BTC?!

So AM shares will be 200 BTC?!?!?!

Now I'm bullish on AM but dear god...

I release more shares constantly, I try to keep them at or above the average market value, but sometimes I sell lower in order to complete other deals.

Generally you can expect all the passthroughs to fluctuate to form an average price. Sometimes mine are cheapest, sometimes mine are the most expensive; there are many factors at play.

I have no way to predict how many shares will enter the PT market, but I can tell you I will keep accumulating shares for as long as it is profitable for me to do so. My first goal is to reach 5000 whole-shares, in order to get a board seat with ASICMINER.

I release more shares constantly, I try to keep them at or above the average market value, but sometimes I sell lower in order to complete other deals.

Generally you can expect all the passthroughs to fluctuate to form an average price. Sometimes mine are cheapest, sometimes mine are the most expensive; there are many factors at play.

I have no way to predict how many shares will enter the PT market, but I can tell you I will keep accumulating shares for as long as it is profitable for me to do so. My first goal is to reach 5000 whole-shares, in order to get a board seat with ASICMINER.

Dividends paid at .000198 !

Dividends paid at .000198 !

I haven't checked, but did you recieve the dividends from upstream yet?

Nope, still waiting!

-- There was news about a presentation by Rockxie about ASICMINER. Can you confirm this was an official presentation and summarize the news that was shared about upcoming plans for the mining farm and the Mini Blade?
Friedcat: They are true, though some projected dates from our side were more-or-less overly determined in his presentation.

-- When can we expect the first financial report?
Friedcat: We are asking board members if July 23 is acceptable.

-- Could Bitfountain provide an official live hashrate meter from ASICMINER for your mining farm, or could you periodically confirm the current hashrate?
Friedcat: Yes. Our internal management system is towards its completing. Directing the data to a public webpage is easy.

Hi! I own 100 TAT shares, is it possible to convert them to 1 original G.ASICMINer-PT share on bitfunder.com?

Just bought in. As diff increases, choking off GPUs and even FPGAs, I'm betting on value to climb in short term, and dividends to rise in long term. Is that a reasonable assumption based on your expertise?

My position is biased in that I hold a lot of ASICMINER shares and I am on their board of directors. So you can infer that I am confident in the company :)

That's a given of course, I'm hoping you can spell out the particular pattern of growth you might anticipate. :)

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169,520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00￥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05￥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00￥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90￥
Deposits: 117,506.01￥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96￥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing

Hardware Franchising

This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.

This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.

Project Timeline

August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.

TAT.ASICMINER Bitfunder Migration Grace Period

In light of Bitfunder's recent announcements, we are enabling each Bitfunder shareholder ONE free migration to HavelockInvestments.com.

The following limitations apply:
1. You must initiate this migration request before November 15, 2013.
2. Due to a massive amount of requests, your migration might take anywhere from 1-14 days to process.*
3. After Nov. 15th, we may offer a fee-based transfer service, or discontinue the service.
4. We can make no guarantees that Bitfunder or Havelock will not impose additional limitations on trading in the future.

 How to Transfer Shares:
 1. Make the subject of your email: TAT.AM BF
 2. Push the amount of shares to the issuer account on Bitfunder: TATInvestments by using the Transfer feature while logged in to bitfunder.com
 3. Send an e-mail to tat.investments@gmail.com from your account email address registered with HavelockInvestments.com and include the following info:
   - Bitfunder account name (not email)
  - Bitfunder public wallet address
  - Quantity of shares
  - Havelock registered email address

Do NOT send your request more than once, and do NOT include other requests, questions or comments.

* Transfers will be transferred in batches, and confirmations will ONLY be sent after each batch. Do NOT send emails requesting updates.

NOTE: TAT Investments is not responsible for any lost value, arbitrage, or trading opportunities due to delays in processing transfer requests. TAT Investments is not responsible for any limitations or discontinuations of services or access to liquidity imposed by the host exchanges.

Guess you'll have a lot more work now...

TAT.ASICMINER Bitfunder Migration

In light of Bitfunder's recent announcements, we are enabling each Bitfunder shareholder ONE free migration to HavelockInvestments.com.

The following limitations apply:
1. You must initiate this migration request before November 22, 2013.
2. Due to a massive amount of requests, your migration might take anywhere from 1-9 days to process.*
3. We can make no guarantees that Bitfunder or Havelock will not impose additional limitations on trading in the future.

 How to Transfer Shares:
 1. Make the subject of your email: TAT.AM BF
 2. Push the amount of shares to the issuer account on Bitfunder: TATInvestments by using the Transfer feature while logged in to bitfunder.com
 3. Send an e-mail to tat.investments@gmail.com from your account email address registered with HavelockInvestments.com and include the following info:
  - Bitfunder account name (not email)
  - Bitfunder public wallet address
  - Quantity of shares
  - Havelock registered email address

Do NOT send your request more than once, and do NOT include other requests, questions or comments.

* Transfers will be transferred in batches, and confirmations will ONLY be sent after each batch. Do NOT send emails requesting updates.

NOTE: TAT Investments is not responsible for any lost value, arbitrage, or trading opportunities due to delays in processing transfer requests. TAT Investments is not responsible for any limitations or discontinuations of services or access to liquidity imposed by the host exchanges.

Questions:

I am trying to deal with a bitfunder account for the estate of my son.  I have access to his bitfunder account.  He as a small (but not insignificant) number of bitcoins invested in G.ASICMINER-PT on bitfunder.  (And, some in JAH and some in ActiveMining.  The rest are insignificant.)

The whole process on getting them out seems kind of murky to me.  To do anything with shares Google 2-factor needs to be enabled.  I try, and it doesn't work.  Dividend funds move to weexchange OK, but withdrawing from there leaves the bitcoin transfer is stuck in limbo.  Requests for help go unanswered.

Any assistance would be welcome.

If you know how to sign a message using the bitcoin wallet assigned to his Bitfunder account, then you'll be able to verify ownership later on, once the asset is frozen and converted to AM100 shares on HavelockInvestments.com

However, if you can get that 2-factor working, it will be much easier and quicker for me to help, as I need to be able to control the shares to do anything with them for you.

You might get some additional assistance by joining the #bitfunder channel using IRC, on Freenode.

OK, I got the 2-factor thing figured out and working.  Not what I'd call well documented.

Shares transferred, email sent.  The email is my son's, but I monitor it.  I'll drop you a private message on that.

Just transferred mine as well.  Sorry for being late.
Any idea what we should do with G.ASICMINER-PT shares?  Should we mail DeaDTerra?

For the G.ASICMINER shares, I'd just make sure your Bitfunder.com wallet address and email on account are up to date and in your control.

At some point (I don't know how long, I don't run it) G.ASICMINER shares will be converted to direct shares held with ASICMINER. At that point you could import them to AM1 on Havelock if you want to sell/trade.


However we are offering a fee-based service to convert your G.ASIC shares now, if you don't want to wait: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3580309#msg3580309