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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914055 times)
binaryFate
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July 23, 2013, 03:48:01 PM
 #10321

Stop the off-topic. All these comments apply to most of the companies that deal with electronic, so bring your discussion with you on a more general forum, but out of here.

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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July 23, 2013, 04:26:42 PM
 #10322

nice rise in the hashrate - it seems like the 45 Thash/s is there to stay...
It seems ASICMiner can't keep up with the increase in the rest of the network: http://runeks.dk/bitcoin/#week

Yeah, I've read about working conditions in China.  Workers on the factories can easily work 10+ hours a day, 6 days a week.  But they don't complain, they are very hard-working people.
The word is "slaves".
You don't seem to know what a slave is. Voluntarily working 10 hours a day 6 days a week is not slavery.

Only us spoiled Westerners don't know the difference.

In the 19th century people worked even longer hours in the West. And their children did too. Then we got the labour movement. Which initially was crushed (Pinkerton agents shooting on strikers). But they won. In China the labour movement obviously didn't get any traction. Ironically as China is supposed to be a worker run state.
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July 23, 2013, 05:20:28 PM
 #10323

Its embarrassing, everyone's an expert on slavery and China now. And its got bugger all to do with AsicMiner. People work in China to feed their families, same as everyone else. Just they get paid less. If you wanna talk about real slavery, look what Europe did to almost the entire African continent, or how the US railroads were built. That was real slavery.

Calling Chinese factory workers slaves is just idiotic. I live in Thailand and farm workers get paid very little here for very hard hot work. Its not slavery. Its just a hard hard living. But  they choose to do it. It ain't slavery.
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July 23, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2013, 05:43:58 PM by friedcat
 #10324

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169,520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00¥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05¥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00¥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90¥
Deposits: 117,506.01¥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96¥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing

Hardware Franchising

This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.

This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.

Project Timeline

August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.

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July 23, 2013, 05:38:02 PM
 #10325

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00¥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05¥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00¥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90¥
Deposits: 117,506.01¥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96¥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing

Hardware Franchising

This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.

This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.

Project Timeline

August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.

love ya,

thanks for the update

Einer trage des andern Last, so werdet ihr das Gesetz Christi erfüllen.
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July 23, 2013, 05:40:03 PM
 #10326

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00¥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05¥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00¥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90¥
Deposits: 117,506.01¥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96¥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing

Hardware Franchising

This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.

This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.

Project Timeline

August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.

Nice!
Thanks for the update
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July 23, 2013, 05:59:04 PM
 #10327

Hardware franchising.  How does that work?  Is it like equipment leasing?  If so, does the equipment eventual returns?  Because typical retail franchise, the operator primarily acquires usage of brand name - can't really draw a true parallel between the this franchising and retail franchise.

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169,520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00¥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05¥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00¥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90¥
Deposits: 117,506.01¥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96¥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing

Hardware Franchising

This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.

This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.

Project Timeline

August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
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July 23, 2013, 06:10:28 PM
 #10328

Thank you, friedcat!

Finally we can stop discussing politics and ecology  Cheesy

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
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TsuyokuNaritai
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July 23, 2013, 06:12:07 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2013, 08:02:20 PM by TsuyokuNaritai
 #10329

This is good, right?

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July 23, 2013, 06:18:40 PM
 #10330

By my calculations, book value is 0.0513 BTC / share
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July 23, 2013, 06:24:08 PM
 #10331

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169,520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00¥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05¥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00¥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90¥
Deposits: 117,506.01¥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96¥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing

Hardware Franchising

This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.

This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.

Project Timeline

August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.

friedcat, this is a good update, thank you.

There are a few questions left unanswered. You mention revenue and expenses, but not the period. Is this from operation start last year?

You have also mentioned significant investments in July and investments in 2nd-gen chips. Where is this listed in the balance sheet? If they're not listed, are these costs accounted for elsewhere?

.b

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July 23, 2013, 06:27:03 PM
 #10332

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169,520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00¥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05¥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00¥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90¥
Deposits: 117,506.01¥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96¥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing

Hardware Franchising

This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.

This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.

Project Timeline

August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.

friedcat, this is a good update, thank you.

There are a few questions left unanswered. You mention revenue and expenses, but not the period. Is this from operation start last year?

You have also mentioned significant investments in July and investments in 2nd-gen chips. Where is this listed in the balance sheet? If they're not listed, are these costs accounted for elsewhere?

.b

Was just writing a post asking about period of Revenues/Expenses... but your post did it much better than mine would have Smiley.

A bit more detailed books would be appreciated if possible - monthly expenditures for instance

Making Apps and Websites for people. I charge reasonable rates ($30-40/hour in BTC).
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July 23, 2013, 06:34:55 PM
 #10333

By my calculations, book value is 0.0513 BTC / share
So... At your valuation, it would return 100% biweekly. I'd say that would be undervalued.

Book value does not mean share value, it's just the value of the company's quantifiable assets.

btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
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July 23, 2013, 06:42:28 PM
 #10334

Great news, cat.
Our company is doing really good.
Capital is growing and sales/mining income is huge comparing to costs.

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July 23, 2013, 07:33:05 PM
 #10335

Wow anyone notice the expenses, nice and low.. 17 million income, less than a million in expenses. Nice. Great investment.

@EricMuyser | EricMuyser.com | OTC - "Defeat is a state of mind; no one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as a reality" - Bruce Lee
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July 23, 2013, 08:13:02 PM
 #10336

as a (admittedly part qualified) accountant, that balance sheet makes me cringe slightly, but its better than nothing! Smiley

Promote our site for no risk BTC / LTC profit! 1% gross profit, LTC/BTC payments weekly. Click through for more details.
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July 23, 2013, 08:13:57 PM
 #10337

By my calculations, book value is 0.0513 BTC / share
If you look closely at the spread sheet, the company has a liquidation value of zero (Assets-Liabilities). All assets are either instruments for future income, reflect investments, contracts paid for or cover short-term costs.

What's not reported in the spread sheet, but can be estimated from the numbers in the posting is the generated "bitcoin flow": operation->equity owners, which is (169,520.57- ~15,000-40,000=~130,000-150,000). Thus the gross efficiency of the operation up to now is for each bitcoin spent, you get 5 to 10 back. However, that included a lot of early-mover pay-off, thus a separation into different time and operation segments would be desirable to see how that efficiency fares and compares.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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July 23, 2013, 08:17:24 PM
 #10338

Hardware franchising.  How does that work?  Is it like equipment leasing?  If so, does the equipment eventual returns?  Because typical retail franchise, the operator primarily acquires usage of brand name - can't really draw a true parallel between the this franchising and retail franchise.

Franchising isn't exactly the right word, it sounds like more of a lease agreement where the terms of the lease are the theoretical production capacities of the devices.

From what I understand, it allows Bitfountain to scale faster and in a distributed fashion with low risk to either the security of Bitcoin or the company.  The devices aren't controlled by or related to the company other than the payments of what the blades produce near theoretical maximum.  And the risk to the company is even lower because of the deposits required.

This could give Asicminer, effectively, mining farms all over the world, even in places that can operate much more efficiently than where they are now.  And let Bitfountain profit from more than 50% of the network hashrate without actually risking Bitcoin's security.

All in all a very good thing for Asicminer and shareholders methinks.
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July 23, 2013, 08:29:12 PM
 #10339

By my calculations, book value is 0.0513 BTC / share
If you look closely at the spread sheet, the company has a liquidation value of zero (Assets-Liabilities). All assets are either instruments for future income, reflect investments, contracts paid for or cover short-term costs.

What's not reported in the spread sheet, but can be estimated from the numbers in the posting is the generated "bitcoin flow": operation->equity owners, which is (169,520.57- ~15,000-40,000=~130,000-150,000). Thus the gross efficiency of the operation up to now is for each bitcoin spent, you get 5 to 10 back. However, that included a lot of early-mover pay-off, thus a separation into different time and operation segments would be desirable to see how that efficiency fares and compares.

(Assets - liabilities) = 0 always, since a balance sheet must balance.

Shareholder's equity is the important bit (which is part of the liabilities).

You are correct that the cashflow is more important. Balance sheets are important when there is debt. In Bitcoin land there is no debt.
And yes AM is not capital intensive. This indicates it can scale. However the limit to scaling up is the hashrate share (notwithstanding the franchising deals).

Most importantly, this is a step towards transparency, which reduces the perceived risk to shareholders. This means we can tolerate a lower yield and thus, we should get a higher share price.
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July 23, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2013, 09:00:51 PM by Jutarul
 #10340

If you look closely at the spread sheet, the company has a liquidation value of zero (Assets-Liabilities).
If you look closer at the spread sheet, the (Assets-Liabilities) is BTC10,112.72 + $517,800.00 + ¥3,002,649.85.
I stand corrected. I mixed owner's equity into liabilities, but it's actually not a liability, thus there is liquidation value. (need more coffee...)

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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