Bitcoin Forum

so in the uk it seems nvidia graphics 1060/1070 cards are now pretty much oos and selling on ebay for same price as new. So the bubble from what i can see is bursting, difficulty for eth has gone nearly 4x in few months. I guess everyone wants free money.

If price stays the same, difficulty will not rise much and then after few weeks it will stabilize if price stays the same, profitability is low, people are getting out and they started selling their gpu's and many are following which means prices of graphics cards will crash especially in Europe where electricity is very expensive and people cant afford to mine, better to invest the money somewhere, returns are much greater. This is a good time to buy coins.

the guy who bought my rig didn't have a clue what he was doing, but that is how i started.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure a lot of these people are noobs with hardware and will be like "please help, I bought overpriced cards to mine eth, now it's gone to POS, don't know what to mine". In a way I think this "bubble" if we can call it that is a good thing.

There are probably also those who buy the GPUs just to sell them back for more.

I'd still like AMD to communicate a bit more. It's hard to guess when some stock will get here. I read that a big german retailer was saying it'll take another 3 months for things to get back to somewhat normal...

Newegg and other retailers like Microcenter in the US have jacked up their GPU prices by 40% e.g. this Powercolor Red Dragon RX 570 4GB that I bought for $190 a month ago is now listed by Newegg for $270.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131717&ignorebbr=1

This will curb purchases for reselling, but just like the last GPU run-up in 2014, don't expect prices to come down anytime soon. Especially since GPU mining is more profitable now that it has been historically, including 6 months ago.

who would by nvidia cards to waste his mining power on ETH? :)

Everybody is doing that, blame chinese manufactures, dont think amd is getting a dime on these deals. Boycott is what all of you should do, if you dont then they will keep doing it till you trolls learn the hard way.

i did say to him there are other coins to mine which is why i bought it, but he was focused on ETH.

Stating facts is not trolling. The ETH difficulty rise has more to do with the ICE AGE that was PROGRAMMED to increase the difficulty exponentially as the the switch to POS grew closer. Now that the date to POS has been pushed forward, there is a debate what they should do to address it as it is affecting the network transactions. The ETH Dev meeting tomorrow should address that.

The market is retracting in preparation for the BTC BIP 148 UASF, SegWit2X, SegWit controversy, which is dragging all other coins with it. Now is not the time to be buying or selling coins until that has been straightened out. If you already have a rig, now is EXACTLY the time you should be accumulating coins with little risk until the market recovers.

https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/07/12/bitcoin-price-analysis-12-july-2017

Sorry guys, it looks like it is time...

https://media.giphy.com/media/INS8MHlqpmFB6/giphy.gif

Capitalism at its finest.  You gotta pay to play, aint no free money in this world.

with the price of ETH it's more efficient to mine other coins with nvidia and then buy ETH - brings more profit in the end and you can get ~ twice ETH than you would do with mining ;)

I have bought and been buying thousands of ETH for the last 3 days. It's too difficulty for miners to mine eth, few coins with lots of hardware, I said before and I will say again, I'm aiming at 300% profit in the next 3 months or so with eth trading, buying low now and will sell around 0.4 btc or so. I have a feeling many btc owners will exchange their btc for eth  and eth will fly to around 0.9 btc per eth.

just got ETH for 0.0838 exchange rate - i think not the worst way making some ETH :D

The only people who are hurting are the ones who bought the GTX 1070/1080/1080ti. Most people who bought AMD probably came out ahead, even if they bought the GPUs late. As long as you paid MSRP for the AMD GPUs you should be fine.

However those you bought the 1080Ti for $700, with a current daily profit of $3/day you really should just return those GPUs back to the retailer for a refund.

name the altcoin pls

search for it :)
it's usually every 24h another one - yesterday i made e.g. with DAXX $ 7.5 per 1070 (mining 24h before diff exploded and selling at it's peak) - with ETH mining i would have made maybe $ 2.5 that 24h....

Its starting....

(only a month old) and buying over priced GPU from the start dont help...


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nvidia-Mining-Rig-7x-GTX-1070-1x-1060-235mhs-ethash-850watts-/322591229033?hash=item4b1bef8469:g:ItMAAOSwyWZZXg-v


Cant wait for cheap Gpu's...

Ouch, I really hope you will make it.

My prediction is that mining profits are down another 40% in 96 hours, would be very happy to be wrong though.

No kidding.

I bought a batch of gpus right before the big run-up when price was approaching $50 and I mined held the coins for month and sold off a batch of coins when it hit $230 and easily had 200+% roi on those gpus alone in a months time.  Then it rose to $400 and I was kicking myself but I figured it was better to lock in my gains at that time.  Some of that money is still in my bank some of which I used for my insurance/car payment and to pay off my credit card.

Those were the good days.

5000 thousand pounds, that is too bloody expensive. I doubt even a mindless troll would buy that computer hehe

never think that there is not somewhere an idiot who would do it ;)

you have 1070s on ebay sold for $ 600 and more, in regular shop you got the same card for $ 450.

but even dealers are like having 2-4 weeks delivery at regular price (to be top listed on price search pages) and then raising the price by 25% and have them minutes later on stock - even then they are sold out after 1-2h again and the old lower price is back shown for the listing in price search pages ;)

So, 1070 for $600 is expensive and ETH for $200 is cheap?

Yes, you can read, congratulation :)

Haha, not really, buying more 1080 Ti.

I still have some hope left!!!


Brave trooper you must be.

never lose the faith in yourself, you can do it ;D

I dont get it really.

Only if you trading daily everything you mine, it is right to search profitable coins.

Im mining ETH, and not before one year i will be able to tell how much and did i profit. There is no point of every day checking coin price if you only mining.

Just look at ETH one year ago.

If you can explain to me why you think a 1080 Ti is a wise investment please let me know? Maybe I suck at math but

One RX 470/570 is ~$200 and makes $2.30/day

One 1080Ti is $700 and makes $3/day.

the only benefit i see i electrical cost  which is why i choose the gtx 1070 to mine in march before the madness. it was 5 dollars a day per card with nicehash, now it is 2-3 dollars. mining i once made 75 dollars in a weekend when decred mining software update/

I think you know, you have heard but I will tell you their reasoning anyway, for them a GTX 1080ti is double of a 1070 in hashrate but they will not tell you is only 1 coin that has double hashate, most algos dont get a 50% more hashrate than 1070. For them they only care about after the roi is reached, their biased explanation is "a 1080ti after roi makes 35 mh/s". So for them, they are not looking at the $800 they paid, they even dont care about if they will reach the $800 mark, they are looking at 35 mh/s after roi and long term usage, 1 slot on motherboard instead of 2 x 1070, they are looking at staying with the card for 10 years down the line, for example 7970. They are mindless.

Adaseb, you are too red. You missed some good (haha) mining years only because you were not looking to the green side.

That said, red or green, DO NOT BUY GPU's right now.

 If you're mining ETH on a 1080ti you're stupid - and making a LOT less than the card is capable of if you mine stuff it's EFFICIENT at.
 There are quite a few algos that a 1080ti manages twice OR MORE the hashrate of a RX series card - the algo ZEC uses is the best known, but the 1080 ti also is very very good at groetsl, skein, lbry, lyra2rev2, just for the algos I've personally tried mine on and can compare with my RX 470s.

 Also, finding RX 470/570/480/580 at under $400 the last 2 months has been a rare thing, even if you manage to sneak in on a Newegg restock it's "limit 1 per 48 hours" WHEN they have them and more like $250 - and other retailers have the same sort of limit when they have any at all.

 They're also NOT making $2.30 a day any more, even if you BIOS flash them and overclock them enough to nearly match the hashrate of my R9 290 cards - as of RIGHT NOW they're grossing a hair less than $2 (though probably netting a hair more than my R9 290s due to much lower electric use) even if they CAN get to the 29 Mhash/s my R9 290s manage.

 That 1080 ti also will retain it's resale value after the crash - the RX series cards will probably be selling for a LOT less than MSRP 'cause of oversupply.


 I'm not saying the RX cards are bad - I'm just saying that for the last 2-3 months calling them a "$200 card" has been generally a LIE - and will remain a lie for most folks 'till the current gouge pricing goes away.
 You also have to factor in that the total SYSTEM cost is going to be a good bit higher per card, as you need more RX series cards to match the income of GTX 1080ti cards therefore you need more rigs (and more MB/CPU/RAM/HD/PS etc).

 4 months ago, the RX were a very very good and often the best mining option - but at recent gouge pricing it's a lot more of a question mark - and when ETH moves to PoS it's going to kill the biggest coin that the RX series EVER had a major advantage on.

 The 1080ti isn't 2x a 1070 on anything that I am aware of.
 The 1080 ti will generally use a little less power for 2 of them at slightly higher hashrate vs 3 1070 cards when doing the SAME algo even at the SYSTEM level.

I like the 1080 Ti.  Been buying about 10 a week for months.  Still buying now.  I hear a lot of people bashing nvidia cards and it's probably because they don't understand the efficiency you can extract from them.  Nothing against AMD, just prefer nvidia as I mine mostly equihash based coins.  

Right now a RX 470/570 4GB if you Dual mine brings in exactly $2.20/day.

The 1080Ti mines ZEC at ~700H/s and makes $3.41/day.

Even though the 1080Ti is slightly more efficient, its should be negligible at these profits.

So the card costs triple, and only makes $1/day more than RX 470. How does that make sense?

Yes I know its very optimized in certain algos like LBRY or NXS or Skein, etc. However those coins have very low market caps and can easily crash in the near future. You can't depend on them for mining in the future.



So which is smarter...

1)

Buy RX 470 and make $2.20/day today

In 6 months make $0.50/day

2)

Buy 1080 Ti and make $3.41/day today

In 6 months make $0.75/day


Which one do you think will make you more money in the long run? The 1080 Ti most likely won't even be able to cover their depreciation when they hit eBay.

who doesn't invest some time in research has to mine coins with shit profit - but tell me some business where you make money without any work?
also for trading you need to do research or you can lose a hell of money very fast ;)

btw. i just plan another new rig - this time with 1080ti due to more density than the existing 1070 rigs :)

Consider cost of ownership and energy efficiency, not purchase cost.

It was never about marketcaps.

For the record

Mining is working my friend

Mining is  hard work  checking prices for gear. Setting gear up .Keeping it stable. Looking for best software.

MAGA!!!

Hash by hash.

(-:

you forgot looking for the best coins not to waste your time on inefficient mining ;)

print it out, frame it and put over your bed, then you will always remember :)

newbies buying hardware at any price without any research and just mine ETH will have a bad crash soon, everyone who invest time in research, buy hardware at normal prices and combine efficient mining with trading will still make nice profit in the next months, just no easy money as it might have been 2-3 months ago ;)

I will haha!!!

Promise... ahh, forget.

It's the singular rule in mining... you have to constantly upgrade your gear to increase hashrate so you can combat difficulty.  What's better than a 1080ti right now?  Nothing.  1080tis will be profitable for many many months to come.

Plus, in your scenario above... the 1080ti is still making 33% more money than the 470.

Thousands of ETH??? THOUSANDS??? Casually buying 200+K in crypto ... you got balls man. While I am pretty sure ETH will cross 500 by the end of this year, I dont have the balls to buy ETH directly, so I mine.

i love how someone defines a coin that has gone 15x in 4 months as a low price..

In terms of efficiency, the 1080Ti is best for mining certain coins.

This mining is like paying mortgage or contributing to super fund so that when you are old you may have something to leave for the kids. You work your ass off, get used and abused by everyone higher in the food chain.
Replace living beings with coins, GPU's, miners.
http://ohs-bio.www1.50megs.com/ch47/Energy%20Pyramid.jpg

In my opinion the 1080ti rig will, depending on what you're mining. On ETH sure the 400/500 series cards are a better choice, but how long will ETH mining last? When you look solely at profits and not account for other factors like power usage I think you're doing a disservice to your argument. During the craze I sold all but one of my 480 rigs and out that cash into Nvidia rigs. (1070/1080ti) I now have a much higher hash rate on the equihash based coins I mine with a 10-15 amp savings on power. I pay .14kWh so I not only have to look at purchase price but annual power costs. I loose more profit keeping my AMD cards than I do going with Nvidia. Yes there's a higher initial entry price, but a lower total cost of ownership. So I rather buy once, cry once vs buy once and then cry with each month when the power bill comes in.

However I do agree with the overall premise that one shouldn't be buying any GPUs right now till markets settle and we know what the ETH team is going to do if you mine ETH. In my opinion there are going to be so many cheap GPUs soon that anyone who buys GPUs at inflated prices, even MSRP, are going to be kicking themselves.

Also where can you get 470/570 for $200? At a minimum you should be using $300 to reflect the current climate and accurately represent the situation.

a lot of the new coins are tokens that can't be mined, this will shrink the pool of coins to mine.

Here in US, retailers like Best Buy are still sold out. Went their y'day to my local store, and all I could see were couple of 1080s and 1050ti. No Radeon, nothing else!

Online retailers like Newegg are the only source for any GPUs and even they have jacked up their selling price by 10 - 30% during last 2 months. So the demand is fairly strong in US.

There are really people do really just go with the flow and do tend to buy some stuffs without knowing too much and i strongly believe that there are miners dont still have too much idea on what they are doing. Gpu cards are really on scarce as of now because there are lots do tend to jump on crypto currency mining thats why nvidia and other gpu company decide to make a dedicated gpu for sole on mining crypto only. Its really normal for the difficulty to jump on insane percentage when there are lots of people do mine it.

Have you guys been watching markets for the last 5 hours?

That is just short term volatility.

Yes looks good, i think tomorrow or on sunday will be good time to buy on very low level :)

Of course :D
Especially around german/netherland market... sold all of my 1060 3GB with hynix for 240-250€ each.  ;D
Yesterday the last one.

Yes I am thinking long term and what do you think will be minable long term?

When ETH goes POS at the end of the year what is left.

ETC
ZEC
XMR

Add 2,500,000 GPUs to those coins and what happens to the profitability.

The RX 470 will be making $0.20/day, while the 1080Ti will be making $0.25/day. So it really worth buying the 1080Ti so you can make an extra 5 cents a day?

New coins? Most devs are greedy and most news coins are all ICOs. This isn't like 2013 when there was a new shitcoin released every day which was GPU minable.

I agree, XMR is not so big so you cant count on him and asic will hit that coin anytime, the only two coins that are going to be minable are ZEC and ETC, there are some speculations that ETC could go pos too, or best bet POS/POW, so yea ETH is going to ice age as we speak and will enter pos at the end of the year maybe Q12018, when everyone moves from eth to etc or zcash nothing will be profitable, you will make about $0.20-0.30/ day with electricity at $0.10/kwh or 0.36/day, the only thing you can do is sell gpus.

Correct.

Because people seem to be forgetting that even though the 1080Ti is faster, more optimized, less power, etc. It won't mean a thing when its only making $0.25/day.

People seem to think that the current profitability will last for the next 2-3 years. In that case, then "YES" the 1080Ti would of been the most obvious choice but you need to have some risk control.

The only thing that can save gpus is ETC rising over 100$, or ZEC over 500$

which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them ;) (you compare 0,20 vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti).

rx 570 can do 280-320 sols, 1080ti can do 700-750. So instead of 25cents you will make 0,45, big deal (minus electricity)

More or less what I was trying to say.

In the future, ZEC mining might be very unprofitable and the 1080ti will need to mine ETH which is the largest marketcap coin.

It is a big deal when you are scraping by in a mining downturn.  That's 45% more income. 

you simply do not understand the economics of zec. vs eth.

zec coins are worth under 500,000,000
eth coins are worth more then   20,000,000,000

or .5 bill vs 20 bill

nvidia is worth more then 40 bill

pumping zec is a piece of cake for nvidia  .

pumping zec sells nvidia cards.

nvidia would be morons to not pump zec a few more times over then next year.

the losers in alt coins appear to be amd card owners not 1080 ti nvidia card owners.

unless the amd vega does 900-1000 sols at 200 watts

Between the ETH epoch issue and 40% price increase over the last month, AMD is shooting themselves in the foot. Three RX 570/580's would run circles around a 1080 Ti in ZEC or just about anything else. At >$230 each it was worth it to go with AMD. At $280+ it no longer makes sense.

Why doesn't NVIDIA then instead pump LBRY, DigiByte, Nexus, etc. Since those coins can only be mined with Nvidia.

By pumping ZEC, they are actually helping AMD since many Pitcairn/Tahiti owners are mining ZEC.

 AMD is also looking at what happened after the Litecoin/DASH craze collapsed - and trying to AVOID a year or two of very poor sales due to there being way too many ex-mining GPUs on the market dragging new sales down a ton.

 More like 30% AS A MINUMUM and more commonly 50-150% on RX 470/480/570/580 - when they have any for sale at all.

 I do wonder how much the MANUFACTURERS have jacked prices up - I doubt it's ALL on the retailers.

That is the next stage . They are holding back until eth goes pos.

I believe zec price will increase a lot once eth goes pos and eth price will crash a lot when it goes pos.

Is there any logical basis to this belief?  I can't see how eth going pos can any affect on the price at all.  It may actually cause eth to rise if there are fewer miners mining and selling eth.  But more likely it will have zero affect on price.

 No.

 It's the old FALLACY that mining profitability has any effect on the price of a cryptocoin.

You clearly are a for profit only miner and are only thinking about things from that standpoint...I however am not

I've ROI'd on my 12 rigs and I pay my electric bill out of my own pocket, so I like to do speculative/VC mining now where instead of fighting the crowd on a given coin, I mine various coins under the radar with lower initial profits in the hopes that the coin at some point pumps so I can take profit. This allows me to fill my bags faster and hit my target much quicker because I'm not constantly fighting the crowd/difficulty. In VC investing you may invest into 10 startups with the hope that at least 1 of the startups makes it big, so you make the money you invested into the failing 9 startups back from the 1 successful startup. Those 2,000,000 GPUs don't matter to me as they most likely won't be mining what I'm mining; I pay my electricity out of pocket so immediate profits don't matter to me; worse case I just shut my rigs down and take a nice vacation till things die down. Plenty of options if you have ROI'd and sitting on a nice portfolio. Only those with more money than brains will suffer.

Such example is I'm currently mining ZenCash and have already mined close to 1000 coins...the project started off rough but they've been posting regular updates, have formed a foundation and should have their complete secure nodes system released in a few months. Once the project takes off and everyone swarms in to start mining it because of a price increase/increased profitability and crash difficulty, I've already mined my coins and moved on to another coin. What's currently $4000 can easily become $20,000 if the coin hits $20, which I think is quite possible down the road....until then I just HODL

So in my case all I care about is power costs since I will be paying that bill not my coins. So for that I like to use Nvidia as much as I can and only buy open box GPUs from my local PC store or EVGA/Gigabyte cards on the secondary market as the warranties transfers with the serial...

To each his own when it comes to mining. My system works for me but it's not for everyone. I'm just waiting for the cheap GPUs to hit the market so I can pickup all the 1070s and 1080 ti's I can from all those with more money than brains as I'm sure you and others are...

What you are talking about is speculation.

Basically every coin has roughly the exact same profitability due to sites like What-to-mine.

You can mine a basic coin like ETH, sell the ETH and buy your new coin. The end result would be the same. The BTC holders who never mine do this also to increase their BTC holdings. Actually I think most GPU miners mine ETH, and sell ETH to buy BTC and HODL the BTC.

It seems 1080Ti is still very overpriced, about $850, just 1080 is more profitable choise, due to the price about $600

I think you are wrong. Frankly how would Nvidia mess up with such a thing ? Nvidia is a company, where decisions has to be taken by investors. Do you really think "buying a crypto-currency to make price rise and sell more GPUs" would be an acceptable argument for them ? I definitely think no.

That is what I am doing.

1080 Ti are $700.

Congrats you can read. Why do I care what my daily profits are when I'm mining for the long game? Clearly you need the profits to stay afloat as you seem pretty passionate in telling me I'm wrong when you don't know my situation. What good does it do me to mine another coin and convert when I'm want to support X coins small network to help promote the coin. Again I'll say it in fewer words so you won't read over it this time. TO NEW USER U RIGHT. MY SITUATION U NOT RIGHT.

Yep all miners are in essence speculative miners. Some just play it safe by mining the most profitable coins while others take on a lot more risk by mining CPU minable coins before they're GPU minable like Pascal or GPU coins like ZenCash that started out on a rocky launch; in hopes they will rise later.

The only coins I swap for are PoS coins like NXT and ARDR. I'd rather strengthen the network if it's a PoW coin but that's not for everyone and I totally get that.

I'm quite happy to keep on mining, I tend to hold most of my coins.  Past few months I've been mining some lesser known coins while the going is good and then just selling for eth/zec etc

The end result could be even better haha, because ETH is more profitable right now so you can buy even more coins that he is mining.

If your electricity cost is lower than $0.1/kWh, mining is a good option.

Im considering mining but not sure if the value is still there. I dont have anything special just several old laptops around the house...Would it make sense to convert each into some type of mining platform I would say about 4 or 5 laptops mining at once. I am too new to his but yes everyone loves free money.

laptops are not very good to mine with.

but if you tell us  the cpu in each one and the gpu in each one I could tell you if it is practical.

Price level has nothing to do with difficulty

I have 2 gigahashes in ETH and at current price/diff I would make $125 a day which allows me to buy 33 Zen or I can mine Zen with 33 ksol/s and mint roughly 36-40 coins a day. So mining ETH directly and exchanging would cause me to loose out on close to 100 coins a month. I agree that's not the case for all coins, but again taking that route doesn't secure the network which I want to do. You guys enjoy your cognitive dissonance as I've said my peace on the matter. The more you pump up other coins just means less competition for me while I speculate till it's time to buy up your GPUs once you sell in a saturated market.

If you are keeping score thats one point for the smokingman ;D

 Bad math.

 If the rx 570 at 320 sols (which is a good bit higher than my RX 470 cards but they're not BIOS modded so seems reasonable) pulls in 25 cents, the 1080ti would be pulling in more like 55-60.
 When you factor in the electric cost, the PROFITABILITY ratio is even wider as the 1080ti is quite a bit more efficient on ZEC.



 In my case though, I'm not mining ZEC - and my 1080 ti cards are pulling in 3-4 TIMES as much income as a RX card mining ETH would be - even a modded 8GB card running 29 or so MH/s like my R9 290 cards do (most RX cards are slower than that, though normally it's close on the bios-modded high-OC ones).

rx 570 (lets say) will pull 0.20 cents, Quote: "which AMD card is just 1/5 slower than a 1080ti on ZEC? need some of them ;) (you compare 0,20!! vs 0,25 on ZEC so i assume there is some AMD you know which is just 1/5 slower on mining ZEC than 1080ti)."

All i can say is we will see in a few months, it is going to be really difficult time for miners, many will have to sell gpus that is a fact.

Eth difficulty is not increasing since 07/11, the first time since the DAO.
AMD rigs are being shut down. Prepare to resell your AMD at $40 on the aftermarket.

it has increased since the 11/07, only slightly, but it isn't falling. in just over a month it has gone 2.5 times up in difficulty.

people will still mine and won't sell there rings for a while.

https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/ethereum-difficulty-chart

I'm at 9 cents per kwh so I'm not turning mine off any time soon... also since the power is a deduction on taxes it is "effectively" cheaper than 9 cents.

Sitting on about half nVidia and half AMD rigs.

ETH ice age 30 seconds coming and you may say i dont mine eth see that is the problem, eth profitability drops all other coins drop, maybe you will turn off sooner than you think, yes your 9 cents is saving you at moment hehe

The ICE AGE has been going on since it was introduced in September of last year.  As explained at the last ETH developer meeting, block times will be 22 seconds at the end of July, 27 seconds by the end of August and 35 seconds by the end of September.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRQg_lHEKl4&feature=youtu.be&t=2956

https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/guides/what-is-the-ethereum-ice-age/

By the end of August, ETH will be unprofitable for most people to mine and even sooner if the price continues to drop. By then the BTC 148 controversy should have played out and miners will have a better indication where the market is headed.

We will see what happens I suppose =)

Also, I stand corrected, the 9 cents is at my home & I've moved most of my mining to my company warehouse (only 2 miners at home now). It's just over 7.5 cents there on average -- even better =)

Not only that they will lower block reward to 2.5 eth or 3eth per block, thats "50%" decrease I didnt know that.

Anyway Ethereum mining will totally stop with the PoS transition in a few months, so that will not change a lot of things I think. Miners should not wait too much to sell their rigs if they want to not end up having useless AMD GPUs just good to mine Ethereum.

The discussion at the latest dev meeting was reducing the mining reward to around 3 ETH at the same time they fix the difficulty bomb with the Metropolis hard fork release due before November 6th of this year. The reasoning for the reward reduction is it will keep the the rewards per second roughly the same as they are now once the difficulty and block times are scaled back in the Metropolis release. ETH will NOT be switching to POS at that time. They will introduce a hybrid POW/POS model first and depending on how that goes, the switch to POS will be in a second hard fork release sometime next year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRQg_lHEKl4&t=2520s

Well, It looks like they are not as dumb as I thought. However I have foreseen this move.

In the history of many coins there has always been a time where the fine differences between different cards and different ROI scenarios has discourage people from mining. Those that mined with what they had or could buy on the market  and held have forgotten that they may have paid a premium at the time for a GPU card because the coins are worth so much more now.

Unless you are the mine and sell right away type of miner, don't worry too much about the fine nuances of ROI because everything could (and probably will) look very different in 5 - 10 years time. And worst case, you have some nice GPU cards to sell gamers and some good experience.

that is the only type of miner, holding your coins is just market speculation. Why not just mine whatever pays most at the moment and buy other coins?

What you are implying is balance, if you mine whatever pays most and buy the coins which are not or might be valuable then you are the one pumping the coin he is mining which in turn is almost the same bloody thing, period.

You are wrong, plain. This was discussed by Adam Smith and David Ricardo about 3 centuries ago and established as fact. If you want to throw away money it's fine, but it doesn't make any sense.

What do you like more, 2 BTC or 3 BTC? If the latter, mine the most profitable and trade it for BTC instantly. For the rest of us it's best if all people where like you so we can mine for larger rewards, so even writing to you these people are helping you. I'll call you Mr. 2BTC otherwise.

Yes that makes sense for the purpose of efficiency and max profit. I don't know why people are arguing over this.

If you like to mine HUSH but it produces 50% less coins than mining ETH. Then mine ETH and sell ETH to buy HUSH.

I hold BTC but mine ETH instead because with power efficency I can mine about 4x as much BTC thru GPU altcoin mining than mining BTC directly. Selling my GPUs and buying BTC ASICs to mine BTC directly but only get 25% of it makes no sense.

There are already enough miners "securing the network" for every coin out there.

OK guys, I've been following this thread and I realized I could really use some ADVICE!

I'm pretty new to the mining scene, meaning that I just got into it. I started ordering my first GPU's about 3 weeks ago when ETH was around $350 but since then things have really changed...

Right now I'm mining with 5 nvidia GPUs  2x 1070, 2x1060 6gb and 1x 1060 3gb. I didn't overpay for these cards, actually I got a pretty good deal on them. Currently I'm mining ETH with ~130MH/s but after reading this topic it's clear to me that maybe I should switch, although it's not clear to me to what and why.... I check whattomine.com regularly but ETH is almost among the most profitable coins to mine, and even if it's not, the others are maybe about 5% more profitable.

Anyway, the thing is that I still have some GPU's that I pre-ordered (at a normal price of $320-$350) and I'm still waiting for them ( 5x RX580 8Gb) but after reading this thread I'm starting to have my doubts and thinking about cancelling these orders...
The most important thing to me right now (since I just got into the game) would be to ROI my GPU's as soon as possible. Ideally I should cancel my order for the 5 RX580's that I pre-ordered and should arrive in the next 2-3 weeks, and wait 'til august to see what happens to bitcoin and to the whole crypto market. However this also means another 3-4 weeks of waiting if I decide to re-place those orders again in august. On the other hand I see people here not recommending to buy AMD GPU's at all, since ETH mining will not be profitable very soon...
(By the way, returning those orders is NOT an options since they were ordered internationally and would imply a lot of costs)

So right now my mind is racing and I'm full of doubts if I should invest in another rig with RX580 or maybe in something else. I do have a limited buget for another rig, around $2000

No one will have a better picture of where the market and mining profitability is going until after the BTC Bip 148 controversy plays out over the next month. Until then, things are going to be very volatile and tend to get worse before they can get better. Now is not the time to be expanding as ROI times will continue to increase. If you already have a rig, now is the time to accumulate coins until the market recovers.

The ETH dev meeting on Friday confirmed they have no plans to adjust the difficulty bomb and block times before the Metropolis POW/POS hybrid release due sometime before November. This means ETH will become unprofitable to mine for most by the end of August as the difficulty re-targets exponentially due to the ICE AGE and block times get longer. It may also become unprofitable to mine sooner if the price keeps dropping.

Cancel the order and use the money to buy ETH directly during the dip. Ideally look to get in closer to $100 or even a bit less if it falls some more before you get your funds from your preorder refunded.

Buying cards right now to mine ETH in the hopes the price returns to $300+ is foolish, as not only are you are hoping for the same gains that simply buying the coins outright would provide, but since difficulty is so much higher now than during the initial run-up you will mine less coins to boot.

A $2000 investment in ETH at $100 each would give you 20 coins. Mining with a $2000 rig would take over 400 days to obtain those same 20 coins. Even buying ETH at $150 you would get close to 14 coins, which would take 280 days to mine. Keep in mind these figures assume difficulty does not rise which is foolish and the actual time-frames would probably be closer to double to what I listed in reality.

You are off to the asylum if you proceed with that rig.

This whole thing is a speculative, cyclic, investment market. The basics of investing is buy low sell high. Take a look a the long term trend of the entire crypto market cap and draw your own conclusions about;

1: likely bottom
2: likely cycle period

ie; it would be incredibly unlikely to bottom at $10bn or $65bn (current). The answer is somewhere inbetween and the few who guess right stand to make a lot of money.

No one knows how the BTC BIP 148 controversy will play out. IMO, now is not the time to be buying or selling coins until that has played out. ETH was trading at less than $50 just three months ago and there is no reason it couldn't go back to that level, especially since no one knows how the planned forks will play out. If you think you can catch a falling knife, then go ahead and invest directly in ETH. The difference is by investing directly you are risking your investment loses value and you are left holding the bag. A mining rig is and always has been a hedge, as it has a value other than mining and can always be used to create value by mining other coins.

Buying a rig at prices that are at least 1.5x what they were 3-4 months ago is insane. You can't just base the price off of MSRP either, as I was buying GPUs for $20-$30 less than MSRP before the shortage and resulting run-up in hardware price.

No, one does not know what will happen with future price, but as I said buying a rig also entails the same speculation that buying coins outright does, as in both scenarios you are relying on a recovery to break even or profit.

As far as a hedge and switching to other coins, if ETH drops to sub $50 level for any length of time, do you not think other people have also figured out to move to other coins? There will be no profitable GPU coin to mine for quite sometime as the space is saturated with hash-rate already. The slow bleed down is prolonging the end result, but no matter what happens mining profits will be on the decline for some time to come.

Plus if ETH does drop to $50 what I said above would make even more sense as he could buy 40 coins for the same money that he is planning to spend for a rig, which would takeover 800 days to mine at current difficulty. The days of easy mining are over, the best those of us with paid off rigs can hope for is a few more months of some profits before the long lull.

Also relying on selling off the hardware as an escape is not a good idea either, as I think we will be seeing a flood of used gear on the market in the next couple of months.

That will be up to people if they want to sell at loss or not, to sell at loss means less than what miner mines for. Its like gold, 10 people working on mines, if the gold price crashes 50% then will be only 5 people working or probably nobody anymore.

That maybe true but why would you continue to mine at a loss then? If it costs me more to mine a coin than it does to buy it outright, again why is mining the better option? I don't know about you but if it cost me $50 to mine a single coin but I could buy the same coin for $40, I would just shut the miner off and buy.

dude 350 is not normal price for a 580 , more like 250

you got fleeced , i bought 30 for 200 to 250

btw put your 1070s and 1060s on another algo eth is not the most profitable atm

My point is, the seller or miner would not sell at loss unless he is stupid or desperate need the money. For example, you see the new miners on eth, they are selling as they mine because they desperate need the money to pay electricity or loans, now profit takers will be who holds eth till the next ath.

Could you please suggest one?, THANKS

Op please change title as the 1080ti's are selling at or above  699


lowest buy it now on eBay  for used card

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZOTAC-Nvidia-GTX-1080-Ti-11GB-FOUNDERS-EDITION-FE-Mining-Rig-ETH-Bitcoin-BTC-/322595960439?


lowest buy it now for new on eBay

hhtp://www.ebay.com/itm/PNY-GeForce-GTX-1080-Ti-DirectX-12-VCGGTX1080T11PB-CG2-11GB-352-Bit-GDDR5X-PCI-E-/302296147320?


as much as you may want  a fully burst bubble it is not.

It will not be fully burst until the 1080 ti's drop to 600

Yup, ppl still have hope that prices will go up after Segwitt and bitcoin news is over and ICO's slow down eth dumps , Crypto is still relatively strong almost 85 billion still in market cap

until we get wiped down to say 20-30 billions I dont think anyone will fully panic yet.

On a side note I saw microcenter now has a stock of 570s, I will pick them up tmw if they dont sell, retail prices 200 or so

lol bubble not even close to being done. When you see can't mine anything profitably the bubble burst and you'll see cards selling well below their value on Ebay.

Frankly the title is wrong .  It has leaked a bit.

In fact  btc has done worse 2997 high to 1925  with 15% diff increase on top of it.

Whatever you do, I promise you if you there will be no shortage of cards going forward and very good prices on them. So, I'd cancel, and when you have no doubts you want them, reorder again. Chance are you'll be able to pick them at half price with the selling flood too. Now, if you want to keep them, make sure you commit to no regrets and buyer remorse. Win or Lose, be confident.

i dont know about all that but I guarntee if you cash on the sidelines you will do far better buy buying into the bear market like the others have said , the only reason to build a rig is if you are building one to
learn the proccess for the next pump and to experiment or IF you pay RETIAL for your cards $350-400 is NOT retail for a 580 , and $500-600 is not retial for a 1070!!!

 Some truth to that for the better-known and higher-cap coins, but a LOT of coins don't show up on "comparison" sites and often are a LOT more profitable to mine than the common basket of coins like ETH/ZEC/XMR and such.

 DGB was a prime example for about 2 weeks, quite a bit higher profit on NVidia cards than ZEC or any other "basket" coin if you mined it via the Skein or Groetsl options (also on Scrypt vs. Litecoin for those of us with the appropriate ASIC units), 'till folks started talking about "mining Skein" and too many jumped in driving the VERY SMALL network hashrate up a lot and dropping the profitability.
 I suspect some folks also noticed the big price jump and started looking at it for that reason too (that's what caught MY attention).

 GAME was another such coin, but it only lasted 2-3 days as "high profit" before it got swarmed.

 Tradeoff on a typical "high profitability" coin is that it has a VERY SMALL network hashrate, so it only stays profitable as long as "the masses" don't discover it and overload the hashrate - so usually they're only "high profitability" for a couple days to a week at a time.



 GTX 1080 ti to the best of my knowlage has NEVER been under $699 on Newegg - and that's where they're at NOW for the bottom price "on sale" cards, I don't think the "market shortage" ever had a noticeable effect on them.
 GTX 1080 did get a little bit of a shortage, but never completely ran out and the pricing didn't get jacked up a ton.

 GTX 1070, GTX 1060, and RX 470/480/570/580 are the cards that have been getting hammered, and are STILL high on price and short on stock - though they are starting to drop SOME on pricing and availability seems to be seeing a SMALL improvement over the last few days.

An Rx580 that makes $3 a day, but costs $400 is a worse investment than a Gtx 1070 that makes $3 a day and cost $400.

You need to brush up on basic investment principles like value at risk, not just profit per day to GPU price ratio. Additionally, imo coin apperciation should be treated seperately when calculating rig ROI.


If I mine 0.1 eth a day, my mining rig made $20 (say eth = $200) that day. If I choose not to sell and the eth becomes $400, it's my investment portfolio that apperciated. NOT what my rig makes. If eth becomes $100, it's my investment portfolio that takes a hit, NOT my rig earnings that was cut in half.



1080ti was $659 on Amazon for a while. Gigabyte FE for $659 a few days. Then MSI FE for $669 for a few days. Following by Palit FE for $659. The Evga SC2 1080ti is $729 now. I have 2 of them, they hash at 970mh/s skein vs 930-950 for the FE cards. The FE cards are throttling slightly I think, 76 degrees hence are slower.

OK, so what I didn't mention is that I live in EUROPE and GPU prices here are always higher then in the US. Not only that, but since it's kinda impossible to find GPU's in my country, I have to order them internationally that also implies shipping costs (about $15/GPU). So when I say that I'm buying RX580 for $320-350 that also includes shipping costs. GTX 1070 in EU right now is around $500 at best...and even with these prices you will have to stand in line, pre-order and wait 2-4 weeks.

Anyways, back in mid june, I did my homework and my calculations before I ordered my cards, but of course ETH was $320+ then, so my plan/calculation was:
1) ROI is around 3-4 months
2) even i if I manage to mine some ETH for one and a half month (at $300+/ETH), I already got 50% on my ROI (if all else fails after 1,5 months I can still surely sell my GPUs at half a price and come out with zero losses (and profit)
Unfortunately ETH prices started to drop sooner then expected, also my GPU suffered a delay in delivery and started arriving one by one in july.

I still have 5x RX580 on standby (arriving in 1-3 weeks) but if everyone says that by the end of august it will be nearly impossible to mine ETH with a profit then I don't know.... well of course there are always other cryptos to mine, but then again most other cryptos are best mined with nVidia cards...

Last but not least, AMD will announce Vega for the consumer on july 30, so that too might turn the whole thing around. If it turns out to be an excelent GPU for mining, used Polaris GPUs might flood the market (although rumors/leaks say that it will be a 300W+ TDP GPU so unless it can pull some real amazing hashing power I'm having doubts about if it will be profitable to mine with)

After the mining becomes less profitable, I think the big card companies will prop up the coin prices.

I seriously doubt hw companys will prop up coin prices, that is more of a fantasy.
Mining booms create gpu shortages and it hurts companys, the ones they have partners with.

companys that benefit from mining boom

Gpu manufacturers
PSU manufacturers
server case manufacturers

Companys that get hurt in the mining boom

Memory
HDD
SSD
mobo
CPU
Monitor
video cables
gaming controllers
gaming computer case
computer case fans
RGB lighting kits

The reason those companys get hurt is because in a normal market people would build a gaming computer then use those components in their gaming rig.  A gpu shortage means their sells takes a dip being that miners will use cheap cpu, cheap ram and a single small ssd at best.  Even the basic pc parts take a dip because it takes multiple gpus to sell a single mobo/cpu/ram/etc and current trend is for people to build super high density rigs 8gpu, 11 gpu etc so the situation is even worse for them.

I'm sorry but I don't follow. What are you implying? That whoever has 10 mining rigs and wants to game, won't build a gaming PC anymore? Or that whoever was saving money for a gaming PC, suddenly will build a mining rig instead? Mining and gaming are two different things in my opinion. It's not that the companies you mentioned (MB, HDD, gaming case, etc manufacturers) are hurting, they are just not getting a piece of the pie... actually if you come to think of it maybe they WILL get a piece of the pie, when all those used GPUs will flood the market at a very accessible price and people will start buying them up to build gaming PCs...

Nope  you fail to realize  many gamers  build a better gamer  using all the parts from above  and then mine while they sleep so that get a bargain.

You also fail to realize the gamers now can simply buy the best the 1080 ti at retail here and there then simply mine while not gaming.

So you are somewhat wrong with your idea.
case in point

sold out:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpowerpc-desktop-intel-core-i7-7700k-32gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-240gb-solid-state-drive-3tb-hard-drive-white/5794007.p?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpowerpc-desktop-intel-core-i7-7700k-32gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-240gb-solid-state-drive-3tb-hard-drive-white/5794007.p?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-omen-by-hp-desktop-intel-core-i7-16gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-512gb-solid-state-drive-2tb-hard-drive-hp-finish-in-black/5876606.p?


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ibuypower-desktop-intel-core-i7-32gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-1tb-solid-state-drive-3tb-hard-drive-black/5926725.p?


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ibuypower-desktop-intel-core-i9-7900x-32gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-480gb-solid-state-drive-3tb-hard-drive-black-red/5935500.p?

1080 ti is also part of the AI bubble, along with 1080 and 1070. So not such good indicator

I think this is a very valid point AND might be the essence of keeping a blockchain healthy in the future. Wouldn't it be great if all idle devices join a network, maximizing the utility of the device as well as sharing computing power to do useful calculations. Perhaps dedicated mining was never the answer, just a short term way to gain early adopters. Or perhaps I'm in a philosophical mood too much ;D

With gpu mining many gaming friends of mine do exactly this.  Buy a better rig  and mine 10-14 hours a day.  That mining time lowers their rig price and they get to have a top of the line rig  and get a good discount via mining it part time.

I build them 2 card 1080 ti's with an i5 7600k or an i7 7700k a 500 or 1000 gb ssd and a 4tb spiner.    I sell them the rig at my cost but I premine with  it for a month.
That is my profit.  They get a rig on the cheap and still do some mining with it to lower the cost more.

Do you tell them that you put the rig through a 30 day stress test for stability ;)

I did forgot about the gamers building idle gpu gaming mining rigs.

But the point still remains.  If you go to the comment section of any gpu reviewer youtuber then you find hundreds of people who are absolutely pissed off and angry at miners.  Companys would have income from those people buying parts if the gpu's were available to them.  But when farms and people buy up dozens of gpu's then they still miss out, the gamers running a high end idle gamer miner don't make up for the gap fully (tho they help).  Ideally miners will help boost their sales but do not create a suction effect on the market as it does currently resulting in many many pissed off customers.

 A lot of us miners are also gamers.

 My "primary gaming" machine right now runs a pair of RX 470 and a HD 7750 - and spends more time most days mining than gaming.
 The HD 7750 is a low profile card, and is only in there 'cause it was the only thing I had that both would fit in the 3'd slot AND allowed the middle card to cool properly.

 My previous "primary gaming" machine also did double duty - pair of GTX 960 and a GTX 950 (3'd cards a shortie for coolling). It's pretty much a dedicated miner now, though I also run some of my wallets on it and I CAN still game on it if the main machine is down for some reason.

 People are still building gaming machines - the Mining market is NOT eating all of AMD's capacity or even CLOSE to doing so on Nvidia.
 Also, you've got some definite mistakes in there.

 Case companies do NOT benefit from mining, as most mining rigs don't USE cases.
 Memory HD SSD Motherboard and CPU companies DO benefit, but it's kind of a push as miners usually buy lower-end parts.

 I don't know many gamers that waste money on that RGB lighting kit garbage.
 I certainly don't waste money on that junk on MY gaming machines.
 I suspect that just is aimed a LOT more at "I want to show off my machine" type folks, who often are clueless about actually making a gaming machine PERFORM well.


 The gamers that are ticked off are the ones that want to use "mid-upper" level GPUs but are finding they're out of stock a lot and higher priced than normal the last few months due to having to compete with miners for those parts.
 HIGH END gamers don't care, they're using NVidia 1080ti GPUs that haven't had shortage and gouge pricing issues, and a few of the mid-upper folks that used the gouge pricing issue to justify moving up TO the current top gaming card.

Gigabyte FE for $659 a few days. Then MSI FE for $669 for a few days. Following by Palit FE for $659. The Evga SC2 1080ti is $729 now. I have 2 of them, they hash at 970mh/s skein vs 930-950 for the FE cards. The FE cards are throttling slightly I think, 76 degrees hence are slower.
[/quote]

 I don't pay attention to the 1080 ti cards and generally ignore all of the FE models, as the cooling is VERY poor compared to any aftermarket card.

 Good cooling makes a BIG difference on boost clocks, my Gigabyte 3-fan Windforce model vs my Aorus model in the same machine consistantly boosted about 100 Mhz less due to the inferior cooling, with ALL other settings the same - even when I swapped the 2 between slots in my testing of the two.

The mid-range market is a big deal, it is the market Amd aimed at cornering for the last year.  There are a lot of mid range gamers that like to just have fun then there are high end gamers who think spending less than $2k on a PC is completely unacceptable.

I did not not say mining is eating ALL of the market, but it is a noticeable effect.

There is a definite boost in Server case sells.  Have you not seen mining rig case listings or pics of farms built out of them?

What I listed was just to give a general idea that I could come up off the top of my head, no reason to be anal about it.

It is just something to think about, a unhealthy eco-system is not good so don't just dismiss it as not a big deal because the high end guys don't care.

If a gamer does not buy a 1080 ti pc to game he or she needs to learn why they should.

The real losers are AMD players the 1080 ti is cheap compared to the marked up rx 580.

And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

>And the 1080 ti will earn back much more then the rx 580.  So Amd takes a big hit here.

I am not sure. I can get 580 for $259 new from tier 1 seller today, and 1080 ti around $750.

You don't Drive a Tesla for a taxi unless you it's for pleasure.

For gamers the 1070 is the best GPU from price / value which exists at the moment (it's just either not available or +20% at the price now) but the same for the high end 1080ti - you can't get it if you are not willing to pay that extra +20% on the price now - at least here in middle europe.

A good 1070 you got before for € 450,-- and now it's not less than € 550,--, a good 1080ti you got for € 700,-- and now no longer below € 850,--

1080 Ti owners are universally bad at math. They think the only hash per card matters, without taking in to account the actual mining performance per cost. ANY three $230 RX 570 4GB cards will outperform a single 1080 Ti by far in just about at any algorithm while costing less. That's the reason why you can walk in to any store and buy an overpriced 1080/1080 Ti with no problem and finding a RX 570/580 card is like hen's teeth.

talking about math, you will need at least twice as much hardware to support an armada of RX570s (MB,CPU,RAM,PSU,SSD)

$1400 6 RX 570 4GB cards
$300 1200W EVGA P2 PSU
$80 ASRock or Biostar 6 PCI-e mining motherboard
$55 Pentium CPU
$35 4GB RAM
$20 32GB USB Flash Drive
$45 6 powered risers
= >$2000

That rig will easily give you 168 MH/s on ETH with 4300 MH/s on DCR dual mining or 1800+ H/s on ZEC and a faster ROI for more profit. For the same $1400 spent on cards, you can only buy two 1080 Ti, which won't come close to the six RX 570 4GB cards in mining performance.

However, the 1080ti is more efficient.

What do you meean ?

Yes, more efficient at extending your ROI time and keeping you from making a profit! Also keep in mind $230 for a RX 570 4GB is the price after retailers started raising the price. Most of my cards were bought for $190-$220, which was already overpriced compared to 3-4 months ago. That just shows how overpriced the 1080 Ti already is as a mining card.

Actually two 1080Ti's will give you 1600 sols worth of ZEC which is pretty close in hash rate to the system you specced out except you can just throw those 2 Ti's in your current rig and mitigate all of the other costs (except maybe PSU) while having a machine that can run any game in the world at 4k 60fps.

Pretty sure id take that over the dedicated mining rig because I like to game.

I doubt you could get 1600 H/s out of two $700 1080 Ti's, which are usually the blower model cards for that price, without overheating the cards, especially in a case. Even so, the extra $230 spent on the accessories can be made up easy with the AMD cards by dual mining ETH, which is more profitable and you still have the hardware that can also be resold. If you want a system you could also game with then yes, the 1080 Ti's are a better choice, but not the most profitable choice.

I have purchased 1080 ti's as low as 570 usd from newegg  asus  blower style


  2 = 1140   usd

and the give me 1300 sols  using about 400 watts for a 2 card rig.

so
1140  2x 1080 ti's
  100  1x mobo
  120  1x psu
    50    8gb ram
    20   64gb usb 3 stick
      0  nvoc  os

1430  for the rig     that does 1300 sols  at 400 watts

If you can  show me a rx 570  rig that good  I would be surprised.

buying  1080ti's new  well under 700 is still possible

Yea, you could have bought RX 470/570 4GB cards for $160 on sale at one point too. I bought some for $190 in June. TODAY you would be very lucky to find one for $650, however you can still buy RX 570 4GB cards today for $230, if you can find them in stock.

Again for the 12th time in the past 2 months this is not a bubble by the economic standards set down by the United States government and the Commodities Market. This has not yet reached the point of a bubble the increase was too gradual and leveling off. Is too long this is not a bubble stop using the word bubble please.

I'm anticipating prices and stock for these cards to come back to reality around December

Bubble, bubble toil and trouble.

If it looks like a bubble, smells like a bubble, tastes like a bubble... then hey I'm gonna call it a bubble!

Bubble or not ETH is still making $8 a day for 4 470 that cost $800 total.

rx 570 and rx 580 are now in stock where i live however their prices were updated, from $230 to $330, that is almost 50% increase. Only idiots will buy them.

 The Gigabyte 3-fan Windforce model is frequently available at $699 on Newegg, and there's usually 1 or 2 other NON-BLOWER models at that price point on sale.
 I don't pay attention to the Founder's Edition cards as the cooling on those is fairly poor and they clock a good bit lower.

 Blower models work BETTER in a case in most cases, since they're blowing lots of air OUT of the case instead of just recirculating it.


 On the other hand, 2 x GTX 1080ti is overkill for pretty much all gaming - *1* can handle about anything out there at 60dps on a 4k display.

 For around $2400 (probably a bit less), you can build a NON-RISER 3x 1080ti rig - use one of the Zotac shortie cards in the 3'd slot to let the middle slot card cool, and a pair of Gigabyte Windforce full-size cards for the other 2 slots.

 Ballpark 2200-2300 hash/s on ZEC and don't have to count on FINDING cheap RX-series cards that are commonly "LIMIT 1 per 48 hours" when you can find them in stock AT ALL for under $300.

 Expecting to find RX-series cards at $233 each is a pipe dream anyway at this time.

For how many days you have the 168 MH/s on ETH and by when you have 100 MH/s left? In few weeks? :)

Is it still worthwhile investing in gpu rigs?, I'm more of the notion you have more to gain at buying either Btc or Ether and trading.

only if you could find rx 570 for $150 or so. Yes is better to buy eth for now. I think eth will reach 0.02 btc soon.

eth past 0.02 btc long time ago...

i guess he mean 0.2 btc ;)

yes.

Eth making its come back  ;D

Spoken like a true clueless Nvidia fan boy that's bad at math! You don't understand the epoch problem. I think you need to watch this video to understand what is going on with the RX 4XX/5XX epcoh hash drop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQE9WdhupAg

Bottom line is the ETH epoch will be in the 160's by the end of the year and probably less if the block times keep increasing. By then if nothing is done to resolve the issue, the Claymore benchmarks show about a 25% hash drop by epoch 160, which in my own tests, I found the Claymore benchmarks to be overstating the actual hash drop from epoch changes.

The bigger and more relevant issue is at the latest ETH dev meeting last Friday, it was stated they have no plans to address the the increase in block times and difficulty due to the ongoing programmed ICE AGE before the Metropolis POW/POS hybrid release due by November this year. This means at the current price, ETH will no longer be profitable to mine for most people by the end of August once the difficulty retargets as programmed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRQg_lHEKl4&t=2520s

The ICE AGE affects ALL ETH miners, ESPECIALLY Nvidia ETH miners, since they are ALREADY much less efficient at mining ETH compared to the AMD cards that cost less than half. I get watching smart people that didn't over pay for their GPU's making more money than those that spent the same amount and are making less must suck!

Your great math skills we know already (you finished ground school with them?) - just stay in your AMD bubble and wait till even the hardware is worth nothing anymore ;)

I can order

3 x 1080 ti's for               2070 
1 x z270 mobo for             100
1 x 850 watt psu for          130
1 x 8gb stick of ram for       60
1 x cpu g4400      for           55
1 x usb 64gb usb stick for    20
1 x riser for  about              15

total  of about 2500

put it on paypal  six months to pay

have the gear by friday

mine  about 2200 sols for zec  earn  12 a day
spend 600 watts  or 1.50 a day for power  at 10 cents    this is 10.50  profit per day

no money out of pocket  and don't have to pay for 180 days.

this is not a burst bubble.  it is a deflating  ballon.

I agree with that. But in my country, we have to pay first for the goods.

... Only idiots [where you live] will buy them.

Yeah one good thing about USA is price for pc gear.  Lots of not so good things but a few good things.

I just showed your statement about the AMD hash drop was factually wrong, just like the rest of the nonsense you keep running your mouth on like an idiot, without even knowing the basic facts about what you are talking about!

you showed that you are ignoring the AMD hash drop which is simple and proved a fact :) - but keep on proving your lack of knowledge :)

here are some values which might made it understandable even for you ;) (the drop is in % the same for all RX4xx and RX5xx bzw.)

RX 470 4GB :
DAG 120 : 27.4 (past)
DAG 130 : 27.2 (will hit on 20/06/2017)
DAG 140 : 25.3 (will hit on 31/07/2017)
DAG 150 : 22.2 (will hit on 11/09/2017)
DAG 160 : 19.5 (will hit on 22/10/2017)

even the cheap 1060 will outperform any RX4xx / RX5xx soon.

You've made it clear you have no clue what you are talking about. If you actually run the benchmarks you will find the hash drop by the is overstated compared to the actual drop in hash rate from the epoch change, just as I already said. If you knew anything about ETH mining instead of rambling like an idiot, you would know that an epoch is every 30000 blocks, which means it DEPENDS ON THE BLOCK TIME. Which also means that people that know about ETH mining, as explained at the last ETH developer meeting, know the block times are getting longer due to the ICE AGE and will be 22 seconds at the end of July, 27 seconds by the end of August and 35 seconds by the end of September.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRQg_lHEKl4&feature=youtu.be&t=2956

Which means the epoch's are taking PROGRESSIVELY LONGER. Going back to that simple math again, which I know is challenging for Nvidia card owners, going by an average of 30 second block times to make the math simple, means:

30000 blocks x 30 sec = 900000 seconds = 10.42 days/epoch
Days left in the year = 165 days = average of 16 epoch's left in the year

The current epoch is 134, which means we won't even hit epoch 150 by the end off the year. Just like I also said the ICE AGE difficulty is the BIGGER and more RELEVANT issue and that affects ALL ETH miners and ESPECIALLY Nvidia ETH miners.

You must be a Ethereum fanboy if you believe anything Vitalik and his cohorts publicly say.
How about this newsflash
https://themerkle.com/ethereum-developers-contemplate-delaying-difficulty-bomb-by-another-1-4-years/
They obviously are a confused bunch, contradicting themselves.

I completely agree with you.

There are way too many NVIDIA fan-boys who are always "Seeking Approval" to justify their purchase by bashing AMD left and right.

This DAG issue is very minor like I explained over and over and over again. Every 6-7 days the DAG file slows down the GPU by 0.5%, but every 6-7 days the difficulty goes up by almost 20%.

nVidia is good for the miner with high electricity price.

Right now even if you have high electricity price you would still make good money with AMD GPUs.

How is that news? The developers already said they plan on a POW/POS hybrid for the Metropolis release due before November 6th of this year, which that article doesn't even mention. The switch to POS was planned for a second hard fork contingent on how the hybrid fork went, sometime next year. The article is just speculating on how long the switch to full POS is going to take. Also according to that article, the ICE AGE difficulty adjustment won't happen until the end of next year. ETH mining won't be profitable in the next two months unless they do something to diffuse the ICE AGE difficulty retarget.

The talk at the developer meeting was adjusting the block times so that network transactions won't be affected and the miner block reward so they stay at the same number of tokens per second as they are now once they defuse the difficulty bomb at the same time they release Metropolis before November.

Don't worry they will fork before it gets too frosty,

And people just like to talk smack about Vitalik, makes em feel cool.

Where does it say POS will start with Metropolis? Isn't POS hybrid going to start in Serenity/Casper at end of 2017, first quarter 2018?

 Some of us run both, and know the strengths AND WEAKNESSES of both.

 If AMD pricing and availability hadn't gone crazy the last 2-3 months, AMD would overall be the hands-down winner for most mining (ZEC would still be strong for NVidia, and certain small-cap coins are traditionally NVidia dominated because AMD *can't* compete on them).

 Since it has though, NVidia RIGHT NOW is quite competative on most coins.



 As I recall, Metropolis was supposed to introduce a 1% POS / 99% POW split, to allow for testing of the POS code prior to the move to full POS long-term.

 That particular split won't have a noticeable effect on mining.

My understanding is the Metropolis release will begin the move to POS. That was the point of the difficulty bomb leading up to it.

All I heard was that Metropolis will have no Hybrid POS but instead they will reduce the ETH issusance rate to match the difficulty bomb rate.

So extend difficulty bomb another 6 months or so but if block times are 30 seconds make the ETH reward 2.5 ETH per block and make blocktimes 15 seconds again.

But even now, its still unclear which plan will be final with the release.

As stated in the dev meeting, the block times will be over 30 seconds by September and closer to 45 seconds by November. Somewhere around 3 ETH is what was discussed as the block reward change. The difficulty bomb retarget  will make it unprofitable to mine much sooner unless they diffuse the bomb or lower the block times before it was planned, at the same time they release Metropolis.

Agree +++

Adaseb really should at least touch one green gpu. They are not that bad.

I do not worry about the block time. As long as the block reward is 5, that is fine with me.

The block time is actually connected with the difficulty with ETH, its not like Bitcoin.

When block time is double, reward is constant, your earnings are cut in half.

So the inflation rate of ETH is going to reduce quite a lot before the PoS.

Welp, its been a long time coming boys. But I think it is time to say farewell to GPU mining, its over

the ROI on new equipments are not going to work out any longer

lol, if you had 39 nividia gpus working on SIGT past two week like me, you would be laughing all the way to the bank. But since you only have 2 * rx460 then i have to agree

12 1080 TI
6 1080s

bro calm your tits. What I'm trying to say is it ain't what it used to be. I think I'm gonna cash out the cards now for reals.

congrats on your mining profits though, mine have long since ROI, but........like I said, it aint what it used to be

Cash them out, you wont be missed.

If your electricity price is more than $0.2/kWh, it is better to sell the cards.

It's the same conversation every 18 months. If you think crypto has reached its peak then definitely sell. If that few hundred you're gonna make off selling a couple cards is more profitable than what the coins will be worth in 2 years, then smart move. I think it's extremely foolish but what do i know.

well this is all a hobby for me so i can rest easy, even if iam not getting rich :)

Bingo! I didn't just build a 6 GPU GTX 1070 FE rig to mine for todays value. But now I have almost $400 a month to invest into ICO's from which to build a vast portfolio. As ETH goes up, I'll hold some and invest some, etc.

I love this as a hobby for sure. This to me is like being on the ground floor of the internet. Having just got into all of this a few weeks ago, I may have missed the free domain names but at least I'm fashionably late instead of missing the party entirely. :)

Exactly. Something that doesn't get talked about often enough in mining is that us miners are upholding and building a new network of currencies which I think is pretty cool.  The central banks have a monopoly on those other currencies and regular people have no participation in that. With crypto, we are the system and we're getting paid for it.

New RX vega cards about to come out too....they gonna smash everything currently on the market.

maybe maybe not..

I have 5 AMD 4 NV cards

I still mine ETH because i dont wanna fuck with new algos and im still making 350 USD /month minus 100$ for electricity... no complaints here, its a hobby :D

but I do think alot of people are right... right now, its better to invest in coins on the exchange rather then build a rig....

yep currently investing seems a good idea, especially when you are living in a country like me where the kwh costs 0,26 € :)

My daily income from mining has actually never been higher... I did sell off most of my AMD cards in favor of NVidia, though, and they are doing mostly Equihash on NiceHash.

You know something we don't?

How did you achieve higher profits? The difficulty is rising fast.

why you keep going to mine eth? mining is a job. not an hobby. with 6 card you can earn $20/day right now.
but you and other people keep going to mine eth.
mining is a bet in long term vision.

my electricity is actually quite low. But I think I'm gonna move over to all ASICs now. The cards still fetch pretty much the same price as when I bought them (a lil bit more actually). So yea, I don't expect to convince anyone here. We're all in the same cryptoboat so please be civilized!

I haven't really done anything except keep Nicehash up to date & switch to mostly nVidia cards.

My profit in USD is doing awesome due to prices of BTC rising & also have the flexibility of multiple algos.

nicehash payout is about 2 dollars a day per gtx1070. when i started mining in march it was more than double, i don't call 2 dollars a day nice profit even with btc rising.

How?

by selling the cards and buying a coin.

20 dollars a day is fictional.

If you are mining for future profit by speculation on a coin that you mine, thats miners 1. mistake, its better to simply buy the coin and wait for that coin to rise, no point in mining, as it takes time, if you have more than one rig.

I think he meant in pesos.

From 8 mixed nvidia cards over two weeks I made >$1000 off SIGT.  Granted that's a unicorn and not the norm, but it was nearly $100/day average.  With a handful of windfalls like that and low level baseline mining inbetween it's certainly worth it, now is a poor time to get IN to mining though, I really lucked out getting my cards before the summer rush at sane prices.  

Even with all that I got in as a hobby with limited loss, like playing Pokemon or Magic, the goods involved retain some value so even if you grow bored you're not out all your money when you quit.

$2 / Day @ current price = $4 / Day if you hold and price doubles.

Food for thought =)

I'm not stepping back at all -- still expanding my mining operation. And frankly... I find it quite fun.

in this world of blockchain decentralization for cryptocurrency, this is my observation, we the small time new players crypto miners, are the most exploited. did you ever think for that after all of our investment for mining rigs after just a few months our we feel like we just kicking out of the game because we don't feel any improvement in our profit and later we will just say mining is just a hobby- that's the most abused word for miners just an excuse for the lose the "hobby".

How can you not be earning a profit mining with gpus?

I don't understand these guys

Any recent GPU is having profits, any day we have a coin to mine, we are in the middle of something big, the cryptos are evolving as Bitcoin, and they are complaining about everything

Gpu Bubble
BTC crash
Altcoins Crash

There are a lot of users who post negative things in every topic

Hey, if you are pessimistics you don't have to enter in this section, get out to another, you can easily buy the coin and it's ok, no problem

Every person has a different reason to mine, I consider a cheap way to obtain the coins, and even if one day the market is gone, to zero, I have a card to sell or to play some games, even if they worth less

heck, there's only been a few months in the past ~4 years where my 7850 wasn't profitable (maybe I just didn't know what the hip new coin was then, too).
Now All of my HD 7000 and newer cards have been profitable on multiple algos, though I've been sticking to ZEC for my older AMD cards.

Spreading FUD keeps profits higher for those who are already participating. It's surprising you don't take that into account.

Yes, you are right, but I think the users in general are not the "enemies", the big farms are the ones to worry about

Spreading FUD is the old school moron viewpoint of the op.  Encourage newbies as much as possible. Never spread FUD and tell alt coin FUD spreaders to go FUD themselves is the new school method of maximizing coin profits.  Why is this true?
It gets the little guy into mining and it encourages gamers to mine.   This two prong attack is all that can stop the evil super farms from crushing  alt coins like they did to BTC.

Almost any house can have a two card gamer/miner pc  enough so that farms will have a harder time competing in niche coins.
Niche coins are where it is at as a big farm won't mine them since it kills profits.
The op should change the title as he is only hurting himself and is too stubborn to realize the new truth of alt coin mining.

Or not and I am the moron not him.

That's one kick ass statement!, i love it!, i will borrow it for sure  ;D ;D

Mining was plenty profitable last month when we had a downward dip..... we may not be at the levels of the end of May 2017 right now but it's going upward across the board and certainly doesn't seem to have burst at this point. The most dangerous thing for crypto miners at this specific time is getting death threats from gamers that can't find cheap GPUs to buy. :p

;D ;D ;D ;D LMFAO!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Haha poor gamers, as it seems the market is stabilizing and there are nvidia card while amd cards are still the double price
The mining cards are appearing and i don't have a high opinion of them  but the new cards are not performing as well as the first models so the factory's are forcing us (aka the miners) to buy those miner cards.

I'm not saying its not profittable to mine on GPUs, it is. But thats also accounting for the fact that GPUs retain MUCH of their value even after a couple months of mining.

If the price of the GPU you are using goes down......MORE than what you get from the coin you mine (please no nicehash idiocy). Then it would make sense for you to sell the cards after a period of time to sell the GPUs and instantly make 100-200% profit no?

just saying........its your money, do what you will with it.

For the people who stick it out and lose out on potential profits to build a better world : I salute you guys and make no mistake, you are the people who give people like me the opportunity to make some money in this highly competitive cryptomining sphere.

- ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS AND VERY TRUE INDEED. The Great Idea will always prevail over "butiwants" I am very sure that once more people will UNDERSTAND the idea behind it, they will join in immediately. The problem is that majority of folks dont understand technology or banking in general and the proof is nation debt. Just like Henry Ford said once:

I think the GPU retains its value quite good. I bought some AMD R9 390 in March last year, the price now is even higher.

 That's not mining, that's speculation/investment.

That is right. Otherwise, it is better to buy the coins directly.

Instead of spreading FUD then price the coins higher.  I notice how fast new miners sell.  I remember first time people are selling SIGT at 300 sat and 1000 sat before it hit 3000+ in the next day.

its part of the learning curve I guess -

but all of us have a brain, so let use it   ;D

Gamers will always complain about miners, so be prepare to receive threats and compliments from them. ;D I have tried to sell some of my gpus before on a gaming forum and as soon as they hear name "rx 480" they started saying, "go sell them elsewhere" :)

Looks like xmr might be the new top earner for gpu mining, but will it hold..

XMR has been in "the basket of profitable coins" for a while now.
It just happens to be the only such coin that's still viable to mine for a profit on some CPUs not just GPUs.

I think it is more efficient to mine with CPU than the GPU. But you cannot have many CPU.

But it may not be a bubble, if it's a bubble then there must be an inevitable pullback to the lowest positions. But at the current time, such prerequisites are not visible.
There is an expansion and growth of the market of coins. Although it probably seems so with any bubbles.
At the moment, prices have already dropped significantly compared to prices 1-2 months ago.

Bubbles take typically years to burst , if its a bubble we are in it will take longer to burst , still more upside to go.

 The previous Cryptocoin bubbles have only lasted MONTHS.

 This one is already pushing "longevity" records - but I'm not sure if it's really a bubble.

True - There are many people who dont want to scale the learning curve and think that its a simple "smash and grab"

As long as the GPU is still useful to mine the coins, the price will not drop much.

I think demand for GPU's will stay strong for quite a while. GPU companies will obviously try to increase supply so they can make more money. But they don't want to oversupply market too.

You ll get that from Gamer who have either never done it or think it's one big Scam and no one is making millions doing it .i tell them fuck off an go try it , it's not a Scam and then Ignore them .


TO me there Clue less, an i game, as well.

Mining has become so absurd that even Walmart is selling rig packs.  When Walmart starts selling rx580's in 6 packs with risers (for $1000 more than they're worth), you know it has become insane.

honesty I don't think GPU's mining will ever die there all ways seems to be a new coin you can only mine with GPU's that has value due to the BTC price .. at one time GPU's seemed dead but really weren't including CPU mining.

 GPU mining WAS pretty much dead for a while except if you had VERY VERY cheap electric - and even THEN it wasn't making much.

 It is unlikely to completely die in the forseeable future, the question is "is it going to be profitable for the large majority of folks that do NOT have well under 5c/kwh power cost".

Well  maybe  depends on what card you have.  My 1080 ti's  are earning positive at a 20 cent a kwatt summer rate.

And My winter rates will drop to 10 cent on OCT 1st.

 1080ti (and the rest of the Pascal or even Maxwell Nvidia cards) didn't exist at the time, and price on coins was a LOT lower than the last few months.

 Yes, you CAN earn good money today with crazy-high electric rates - but that is NOT the norm, and has only been the case TWICE in the history of Cryptocoin to date.

10-12/2013
2-4/2016
3-6/2017

:-)

Add march 2011 to that list. Don't blame you trolls for not knowing before 2013 or 2017. Also 2013 was march too.

Those were the timeframes when you could go "big" and dump daily to fiat with profit.

I got my own fibre in 12/2008, been mining since. Most of the time I have been selling too cheap.

See that is the problem and today is no different, many people mining now are dumping for money and back in the days was the same. Selling at more than 300% is understandable, now selling for mere cents of profit is the mistake most regret today but thanks to them I'm so damn rich, up to this day I'm still doing my thing which is buying a lot when I see a coin is so cheap and wait for my 300% or more profit. This method never failed me and it only requires patience.

I have learned my lesson, that's why I'm only hobby miner nowadays.

Also

4/2013

For the People in Western Europe, if the difficulty of ETH doubles, it is break even to mine.

Well for anyone mining ZEC

It looks like the daily profitability is exactly what it was back in March 2017, right before the bubble.

Been a crazy ride all the way up to like $5/day with a 280X and back down to ~$1/day.


ETH pretty soon will also reach the March 2017 profitability levels in a few weeks.

 What was supposedly high profit in the Feb-Apr 2016 timeframe, even in the same BALLPARK as the last 4 months?
 Ditto April 2014 - X11 profitability had already collapsed by then and Scrypt collapsed a month or two before X11 did (to be fair that 10-12 2013 should be more like 10/2013-2/2014 approximately)

X11 was never profitable. I think somewhere around 4/2014 it started to become very very unprofitable for the people with 7950/7970.

X11 WAS profitable - both during most of the Litecoin craze days (though usually not AS profitable as Litecoin) and for a few weeks to a month after Litecoin collapsed, as folks scrambled for something else to mine and eventually swamped the few other options or ended up dropping out of GPU mining entirely.

 It was still profitable after that - for folks with VERY CHEAP of free electric, but it quickly hit "breakeven" to a hair worse for those of us that were paying 8c/kwh or more.

X11 was always a scam and still is.

Eth starting it's first run which ended to dao + dcr launch 2/2016. 20MH on eth/ 2GH on dcr made you an easy 5€/ day. Cards that didn't scale well on eth (980, 980ti) made better profits on dcr.

Also eth launch 8/2015 was really good (tahiti 10€/ day) but price tanked quite soon.

I guess the way things are going, soon many miners will start committing suicide, I love the prospect of it. I mean right now, the whole world might be mining and dumping altcoins to pay their loans, soon only few miners will be left mining with $0.05 per card a day, like used to be hehe

It is still profitable to mine. However, the profitability is much lower.

It will bounce back better and stronger than ever. Just need patience

Yes, you are right, I already commited suicide, twice, can you believe?

Given the current rumblings out of China, we might be looking at THE END of the profitability bubble by the end of the month, or more likely sometime next month.

http://fortune.com/2017/09/11/bitcoin-price-value-usd-china/ among other reports.

That could be true. The price of the bitcoin is dropping a lot now. It is less profitable to mine now.

I notice the bitcoin price drop has slowed down. It is consolidating now.

Unless you can build your own mining hardware, mining is pointless.

If there are people who mine, you don't need to mine at all. They'll be competing each other to death till they earn zero profit. That's not good.

The only ones who make real money by mining are the ones who build the hardware.

If you believe crypto has a future, just buy it. Mining is only for hobbyists/geeks now.

There is also a special occasion where you might have more than 10 PC's around with powerful CPU's. Then you might wanna run CPU miners on those PC's and mine monero as side jobs.

CPU mining > GPU mining

i think that with BTC and also the Altcoins declining the GPU Bubble will burst as soon as the people are not making money with it anymore, after that the market will be flooded with GPU, but could also be the case that the majority of GPU was bought by big farms, in that case we will not see that many cards hit the market, since they will mine anyway.
(They paid less for the GPU and have ridic low rates for the Power)

The coming weeks will be quite interesting. It does not look like it right now, but if China really was to shut down exchanges permanently, this might be an interesting development for miners in general...

One mining rig in my living room keeps my whole house at 24 degrees C and costs about the same as having the central heating on.
I'll mine every winter even if I'm at a loss. This is the only time in my life that British weather has been an advantage 😁

I wish this thread was fully deleted.

As of today my 1080 ti's earn 2 dollars a day.  I set tdp to 150 watts which is under 4 kwatts

At 20 cents a kwatt I earn $1.60 each card.

On Oct 1 my power drops to 10 cents.  So the cards will earn 20 cents more or about $1.80 a card.


So the bubble has yet to burst the tread is still too soon.

If cards lose money at 10 cents then the gpu bubble will break.

I find the title to be offensive to the intelligence of the community .

Oh no the sky is falling. Wahhh I'm not getting rich overnight.

It's still profitable, just need patience.

Delete a thread because you don't agree with it, bloody hell. it was an observation in the fact that pretty much in a week 1060 and 1070 sold out, still sort supply. i am looking to build another rig but will wait until a new graphics card is released.

 3 months later and AMD GPU availability is still very spotty, prices are STILL up a lot - NVidia has seen noticeable improvement but it's STILL not back to where it was on pricing and availability in Febuary.

 Still waiting on the bubble to burst.

 I don't' think it's going to be a "burst" - what I see happening (to a degree it already IS happening) is a slow, gradual, fade back into pre-price-jump "got the rig running, keep it running as long as it's profitable, but don't build more 'cause I doubt they'll ever pay off" level of mining for most folks - and even the farms in the very low cost electric areas are going to continue to stay in a "slow grow if any at all" mode.

 At this point it would take a far larger collapse on the price of ETH vs $ to cause a "burst", and that just doesn't seem to be happening.


 The "bubble profit chasers" seem to have mostly faded away, now it's getting back down to us serious "for the long term" miners.

the title was a lie  the day you opened the thread in july

and the title remains a lie as of today.

lastly the title was a lie  for each and every day it was posted.

to this day cards sell at a premium and the bubble is not burst until they sell at a discount.

Your darn right, lol!

Yup agreed with philipma. Lots of ASICs came and go and new released but GPU mining is still profitable and will remain profitable for a long time, new coins will come and make gpu mining profitable for example SIGT and DNR.

that is profitable only when you find good coins to mine when they first come out.

I think the bubble popped a few months ago when every man and his dog started mining with GPU's

do you understand english?

the cards still make money

the cards still sell at a premium

that  is not a burst bubble.


maybe you are just fucking with my head. ;D

Maybe this guy has alternative meanings for words like bubble, popped/burst, dog and graphics processing unit. I'm still making money.

As am I

Some of us were making money on both GPU and ASIC mining a YEAR ago - long before the recent massive profitability bubble hit.
THAT bubble is almost over, but it wasn't a "burst" so much as a "slow decline" caused more by massive new miner influx than any other factor - and it's not over YET as profitability is STILL higher than a year ago.

My gpu's  have earned more then the power they cost for the last 13 months.

August of 2016  the gpus at home  were close to break even.

my asics have earned more then the power they cost since dec 2012  right after the first ½ ing .

I would say  gpu profits are back to just above levels
I would say gpu prices are a little higher then normal.

Yep this thread is truly offensive.  My 180 machines make 8-9 bucks a day and cost me 1.80 to operate.  so a 379% profit margin.  Go ahead and take your money and put it in a bank earning less than 1% a year.  That's a great option.

All these newbies that jumped in while the market was redhot think this is the end.  In reality when you jumped in was the exception rather than the rule.

The "bubble" has burst when we see new 1070's @ $320 or less, 1080's @ $420 or less, and 1080 ti's dropping into the low $600's

I say it again, there was a similar profitability boost in H1/ 2016 when eth went from $1 to $30, that lasted for months. Then came DAO hack and it was nothing but decline after that, September? ddos attacks didn't help. Just before it was about to go below $1/day/$400 GPU came ZEC.

To me GPU bubble bursting means panic selling where people that took a loan to build farm try to minimize losses. At that point, those that made roi have two choices left, keep on mining or shut down farm. Selling is not an option anymore, if you want to sell it's better to wait.

Question is, if you have a GPU worth let's say $500 that already paid itself and is still earning something, is it better to sell it and use that cash to something more profitable than crypto mining? Or just keep on mining? Or shut down your rigs and wait for the next crypto pump? Who knows?

Early 2016 when I was driving around to buy every tahiti/ hawaii/ riser I could find sellers always asked the same question, how much can it do per day? When I said maybe 2€ they were like "well if you already have the rest of the hardware and you have use for the heat then why not, good luck". But they really were not interested in mining anymore, they were almost laughing at 2€/ day.

Times went by, at some point 7970 roi'd in three weeks. They started to make some serious money. I started to invest that money elsewhere but that's another story.

Point is, when a $100 GPU made 2€/ day everyone was laughing, now when a $700 GPU makes hardly 3€/ day everyone is making waves.

This current bubble to burst only needs btc to go below $3000. But if it does another +100% every miner is so happy with their profits, they just completely forget that it would have been much better business to buy btc.

We'll see where cryptomarket goes this time.

Someone please let my country's Graphics card distributors/retailers know the bubbles burst, because the prices sure as hell haven't moved an inch.

 Odd, I've NEVER seen any of those cards in those price ranges.

 1080ti pricing has been back to the pre-price-jump pricing for a month or more already (though availability is still a LITTLE spotty at times), 1070 and 1080 are still at a SMALL premium but at least part of that is probably the recent NVidia "price hike due to ram pricing".

 The bubble can be said to have finally died when we see AMD 470/570 cards start showing up well under $200 (my pair of Sapphire ref-type blower cards cost me around $160 each from NewEgg) and 480/580 cards start showing up close to or under $200 WITH MOST MODELS BEING IN STOCK REGULARLY.

You need to look harder then :D

https://hardforum.com/threads/gtx-1080-for-420-at-ebay.1928637/

I'm waiting for 1080ti FE cards to go back to the low 600's on sale :)

I sometimes get a 1080ti new for 625 to 650  after coupons

but I did get 1x asus 1080ti blower style for 639 -64 =  575  with six months to pay no interest. new

that was before cards had gone wild in price.  I recently got a zotac   1080 ti mini for 739 - 60 = 679  - 50 = 629

but that 50  was a rebate gift card for other 1080tis  so 679 was true price.  for new 1080ti

bubble bursting has nothing to do with cost of GPU. How do you even come to that conclusion ?  ???

Mining always ends up being a mean function of hardware price and cost of power.

I'd call it a profitability wave; not a bubble.  Bubbles are things like quantitative easing, credit  and bailouts....  more than they are likened to alt coin mining.

The still high price of gpu means there is still a demand that outweighs the availability of asics on hand/in manufacture.  Once a new tier to take foot is conceived, price will lower as usual.... Or if demand finally slows down.

I see the profitability still rippling as people are buying and putting more gear online concurrently.  Soon when it plateaus, you will see a decline in gpu cost.  Sadly I think many stressed/overclocked things like 1080ti's will go for sale as used, but people will just want too damned much of them

They are talking about the cost of GPUs, that started to go up in price at the beginning of the year (or was it March?) because of increased mining demand. Not a coin bubble. For a while it was impossible to find some GPUs.



I've noticed a small price drop at my local store and there is more supply...

Philip, how are those Zotac mini 1080Ti cooling wise?
Is the cooler efficient for mining compared to other, bigger 1080Ti's?

i was looking at those, would LOVE to have x6 for my Mintcell flow case, would look so bomb :D
no RGB tho, thats sad haha, but im vain like that sometimes with my cards, especially if im doing specific custom "aesthetic" builds ;p

Uber Profitability comes and goes, but the "bubble" will never "burst" ;p  another day, another opportunity for a miner, imo

It's a matter of time now until GPU miners will start selling their used cards. I doubt they will meet any demand from gamers as it's a pretty risky shot to buy some used GPU now.
So, maybe those who still have factory warranty for their GPUs will be lucky enough to sell their cards now until the price for used cards has reached its bottom.

Care to elaborate how you got to this conclusion ?

Are you just jealous because you can't afford a GPU or few and now just FUDing like madman ?  

In my country GPUs are slowly starting to flood the market. We have a facebook group for miners and suddenly everyone is selling their mining rigs. Funny how people are acting as predicted. You'd think the people who are getting into mining are tech savvy and at least know how to plan and research. Apparently not.

Let the panic subside. Mining is long term guys. Very good ETH speculation by next month.

just transferred zec to polo, will cash in and buy 3 more 1080ti, anyone wanna sell theirs cause whole cryptoworld is going to collapse very soon :D

 Late Febuary/early March timeframe for AMD RX 470/480/570/580 cards as I recall, about a month later the price on those got so high that the NVidia GTX 1070 and then 1060 cards started getting affected as well.
 Look for when the big ETH price spike started, add about a week for the initial GPU price climb to start, 2 weeks later the shortage was in full swing and the prices were going through the roof - then ballpark 5-6 weeks later is when NVidia started getting noticeably hit on the 1070, add a couple more weeks and the 1060 started getting hit noticeably.

 Never had a noticeable direct effect on the GTX 1080 or GTX 1080ti (By the time the good NVidia ZEC miners started showing up, prices had flattened out and the overall demand was starting to drop) but there may have been some indirect effect from gamers that WANTED the 1070 and decided to "move up" when the 1070 price got into 1080 levels, or due to massive widespread 1070 shortages.

Dude stop copying. I just sold some too. Let them panic sell. We need gtx 1080ti going for $500 and less.

 Probability ZERO as long as it is the current "top gaming card".

 Be happy it's back in the $700 or a bit under range again, where it was in January.

Well we can always try to spread FUD :).

Youre Irritating bro, $500 1080ti? really? GTFO lol

Where dude?

In EU, 1080Ti's are going for 800-850$, about 720 euros+, and those are the cheap Inno3d ones, which noone wants to buy.
If you're looking at the good ones, Evga, Aorus, Zotac etc. you're looking at 900$++

i havent mined eth since early this year. there are better coins to mine with higher rewards and more hodlability.

Read a few reviews, unfortunately the card runs hot. Just as hot as founders blower edition, in some cases even hotter.
Aorus or Evga cards run about 70C under load, while the mini goes to 84-85C, which is a bit too much for mining i guess.

Too bad as it realy is a sexy card :)

 Newegg - but I'm in the US, you EU types seem to get shafted on pricing due to your generally very high taxes like VAT.


 My Aorus in the gaming machine runs at 65-66C under full ZEC mining load, not "about 70" - but it's in a case with good cooling in an air-conditioned environment.
 I DO have it set up for 100% TDP, a mild core overclock, and my usual fan profile in Afterburner.

 The Zotac 1080 and 1070 mini cards run reasonably cool, but they're at a lot lower TDP than a 1080ti has to deal with and all 3 models appear to use the SAME identical cooler.
 I'd expect the 1080ti model to run quite a bit hotter.

I bought a 18 of those "cheap Inno3d" 1080tis. They even reused the cooler from 780Ti lol. It works, and is way cooler than my FE 1080tis. Sure the cooling aren't as great as Evga's SC2 lineup. Maybe a few decibals higher to keep the same temp, but they use identical PCB (the founder's edition PCB) and at $660USD vs $760, I'll take inno3d any day.


My FE 1080tis are hitting 75 degrees at 80% Pl and 100% fan speed, but Inno3ds are 68 degrees and barely audible. I would suggest getting the Inno3d, as there is no difference in mining speed between it and the SC2. It's slightly faster than FE too because of better cooling.

In my price, the price is about 30% higher than in US.

You are comparing a trading bubble to the use of GPU's in mining? You guys just love to throw around terms that you really don't know the meaning of, dont' you. Well, the "bubble" was over a year ago, but thanks for noticing.
There has been no reason to point a computer at crypto other than trading for a year or more.

How much is that signature campaign paying?

For me its .0003/post; max 20/day.

Need to start account farming...

It can easily net me more than 1000w of the latest mining equipment...  Kinda crazy the more I think about it.

This current profitability thing (right now) is just the phase of mining gear going online/offline because of season.....   Wait for it to stabilize.  There are always extreme lows when the network gets saturated.

yeah  I used to do well with signatures myself.   But  my gpus and my s-9's and my avalon's  are all okay.

I have earned  around 4000 usd  on gpu mining since  the op wrote  the title to this.




 I have never seen a more poorly titled thread then this one.  Bubble has yet to break. In fact wait till btc gold comes on the 25th.

amen...   Things are still steadily moving along; kinda how they always have been.....   which is amusing sitting here looking at 0.0155BTC being worth almost $100....   

People tend to think only as far as they can taste, smell or see sometimes... and when its see; its only usually something right in front of em, or else they are flat out blind to it.

This. No matter how much you tell them numbers they just don't get it, printing money is just so awesome.

GPU bubble will burst but not this weekend, don't know about next week though.

edit: but this virablog or whatever post was just full of shit.

ASIC resistant coins like Vertcoin (since 2014!) and Solaris are happy to take your GPU power.

 I don't see the bubble bursting.

 What I am seeing ALREADY HAPPENING is a slow irregular deflate of the bubble - pretty much already gone on the NVidia side but that side was a lot smaller bubble to start with, and some progress made on the AMD side.

Nvidia and AMD will have the most profit ever this year because of mining. They'd be stupid not to favor cryptocurrency mining at this point. GPU mining will never be gone, maybe the profits will reduce (I doubt that) but it won't ever end. Gamers will cry more and more in the upcoming years.

This time next year, roughly when ethereum hits POS will be the real test - where will 100 Ths worth of mining go? Ethereum classic only has 6 Ths, vertcoin sitting on a couple. It is such a large amount of mining power that needs to go somewhere. I'm hopeful something will take its place in terms of value, so that difficulty won't outweigh average electricity costs. Only time will tell.

I think we will soon see a new phase of mining in the near future. The current POW model of mining to secure the network is a huge waste of resources and way overdone. New projects are coming online looking for ways to purpose the enormous computing power that is POW mining and harness it to solve real world problems that are currently very expensive and time consuming for the current systems of limited capability by comparison.

Richard Heart is spearheading a project based on Computational Fluid Dynamics modeling and bringing it to a very interesting tokenized POW model that could be a game changer with similar projects to follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0yAl9i8avw

 They don't favor cryptocoin mining because the demand is so very very UNSTEADY.

They prefer steady but growing sales to gamers because they can predict cash flows a LOT easier for future needs/expansion and such.

 AMD in particular got burnt HARD when the last "GPU Cryptocoin Bubble" burst, and their market evaporated in the massive flood of USED cards that killed a huge part of their sales for a good year or longer.

I did a huge test on a bunch of GPUS. I'm about to make 90+% back by next month. I'm so grateful of this well and truly bursted bubble.

bought most of my 40 GPUs in May, getting my money back by the end of the year as well, greatly thanks to SIGT (mining profit $250++/day for couple of weeks lol) and ZEN. So burst.

You  are luck to get good coin to mine.

But then nothing really stops you from finding something similar. Do your own research.

 More accurately, thanks to the HUGE JUMP on almost all cryptocoin prices in the Feb-May timeframe that outpaced the rate of total network hashrate growth for months.

I think it is quite difficult to repeat the process in the near future.

Wow this tread is about a long time ago. I couldn't think that I will buy 1060 at normal price in future.

I think you can buy 1060 or 580 at much cheaper price now.

1060 price is still somewhat inflated, as is price on the 470/480/570/580 cards - but they've all come down a LOT from the peak gouge pricing even though they're STILL inflated quite a bit over pre-gouge/shortage pricing.

I remember a pile of EVGA 1060 SC 3G cards on the shelf for $199.99/ea at frys....

I picked up a bunch of the "mini" SC cards for $189.99 recently.

give  btc-gold a big run  and   gpus will sell out again.

Yep, that's the truth for sure. 

I'm cautiously hoping for BTG to be an early Christmas present for all of the miners, but only time will tell.

I can't imagine this bull run will last much longer. We all know the laws of physics - what goes up...

I think a lot of people are hoping (counting) on that to happen. Mining is still profitable but it getting tighter every day.

GPUs are also still selling at premium prices. NewEgg has a MSI RX580 4GB Gaming on sale for $239, which is still about $50 higher than it was when it was introduced.

Need a few more months of quiet before GPU prices return to normal levels, so if BTC Gold shakes things up, I agree that prices will skyrocket again.

dont believe in to BTG, hes price will be less than Zcash..... coins
People sells cards for buying new i think

They're $269 now.

When I started in march, I only bought 4gb gaming X cards. The cheapest I ever got them was $219 each when I bought 5 at a time through jet...

 BTC Gold I don't see having any effect on coin pricing (other than it's own) but I see it having a positive effect on GPU mining PROFITABILITY (not the same thing) as it should suck some hashrate out of other GPU-mineable coins - for a short while at least.

If the price of BTG to be 0.01 bitcoin, it will suck 5% of the GPU mining.

Any rebates?

 Newegg has some of the 570 cards down to as low as $229 (though I think that one was a refurb) and quite a few at $249 today.

 STILL not down to pre-shortage levels but getting closer.

Yep, those were the ones.

If I had bought those, instead of squandering my $ I had at the time;  I would have been able to pay off the 6 card rig in one month.....   I still kick myself for that.

Hey just had to drag this up.

 my  rigs  are earning   $$$$


https://www.nicehash.com/miner/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje


Monthly income

0.22953600 BTC
1789.92 USD


11,300 zols  about 17 x 240 = 4.1 kwatts or 100 kwatts per day  3000 per month at 13 cents =  390 power bill  and since it is winter  the heating bill drops 110

so 280  powercost  to earn  1790 a month  net =  1510

some  videos of asics and gpu rigs

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K1Sokgy3-4CdV_uZF8ubw?view_as=subscriber

very nice earning quite decently here as well 27k sols