Bitcoin Forum

Roger Ver is announcing that he's working together with a team to build a completely free society by buying off land in US/Europe or Asia.

Live stream was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF52B90xws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF52B90xws)

What do you think, can this new country be born? Could we move there in 2-3 years? Would you be interested?

Nope. My country maybe full of corrupt officials and lots of problems everywhere but I will never replace it with another country.

It is called the Principauté de Monaco

Works somehow on a Proof of Stake model: show the dough, live there, pay zero taxes

Like with any extremist society, if all goes well it never comes to be. If all goes bad, it will exist and will be just as damaging as any other extremist society is and has been throughout history.

Seeking utopia never ends in anything good.

if there's land then that means someone has jurisdiction over it. what are they gonna do? tell the local maniacs that they don't like their taxes and laws so please go away?

there's a reason seasteading is growing as an idea. that's the only way the normal crap from governments can be truly left behind. even then i'll wait to see that autonomy being put to the test before deciding it's great. anything at  sea has to nominate a national jurisdiction too.

It would sound like a really good idea to many, but it isn't in my opinion, taxes are necessary for development, society should be free but people should pay taxes and government should use it for the welfare of the people.

This is utopia, such society could never exist. Only in some fairytale. How such country would be financed and how could political elites survive and who would pay for them? People are greedy and very selfish when their own interests are involved and that is why I don't beleive that ideal society is ever possible.

This can only exist if resources are no longer finite (requirement for some form of next to free energy and the abilty to utilise this to shape matter) Sounds sci fi to me!

Sort of, Monaco has an extradition treaty with US. So for example if US would ever ban or prosecute crypto holders, Monaco wouldn't be safe for libertarians (Think Assange, Snowden).

I can completely understand where you're coming from. It might be shitty, but it's my shit. I've seen the worst and I've seen the best, but my heart was won the day I first understood.


People have no idea what they give up when the accept not to pay tax. Just ask the citizens of Brunei Darussalam. In fact, ask the rulers. They will have to admit that the tax-free experiment can only go so far. Taxes are necessary, unless the society is matured enough to understand their individual roles in collective responsibility. And be willing to play that role! But until the many believe the few will pick things up, a state needs to collect revenue.

Who provides and pays for 'public goods' in a taxless society? How is road maintenance paid for? How is insurance subsidized? Who provides grants? Infrastructure?

But the question is that without taxes how will the govt. Manage to accumulate funds? Leave every thing just tell who will take care of law and order? Such society is unimaginable.

corporations, if it's the kind of libertarian society that allows corporations.

each will own, maintain, and charge for infrastructure. as long as it's profitable that is.

If there are no taxes then everyone must have a role that person must fulfill in order for that to work. Knowing how people really behave that is possible only in theory. Someone would just feel lazy in practice

It's not unimaginable, it's just nonfunctional in practice. Law and order would be down to private entities, just like everything else.

I wish this world existed, but it's too much like utopia. You have to consider greed and power that play huge factors in nations. Plus, taxes are for developing the nations. If we don't pay taxes, who's going to pay for the roads?

I don't see it happening because if they buy land, it won't be their land. It will still belong to the government of a country they're in. Every land you buy is on a permanent lease. Your children can take over, but if they die and there's nobody to inherit the land it goes back to the government. They have the right to enter your land if they suspect a crime is taking place, or if they need to dig out a pipe or make a road. You only think the land is yours until they come in and take it from you.

If we were to pursue a taxless society, how is the country going to develop? Taxes pay for just about everything from roads, schools, police, etc.

As much as I HATE paying taxes, it's still gotta happen. Bitcoin will probably make collection easier though

Swiss cantons model / Ireland model
--> still taxes, but extremely low in order to attract big bag holders and play the volume.


A taxless society is imho an utopia. Worst case scenario: in order to maintain regalian functions, like order, justice etc, a taxless gvt ha no other option than totalitarism to control the masses.
The anarchist bitching about taxes in the quiet comfort of his suburban-connected home is a laughable vision.


More seriously, if the right amount of tax is one question, but (again imho), for me the TRANSPARENCY and EQUITY of the system is key.

Typical example from France where I come from: the taxes are STAKED and it becomes ridiculous
1- you create 200EUR of value and your company transfers 100 to you as "brutto salary"
2- your company pays 40% of taxes on this -> 60 becomes your "gross income"
3- out of the remaining your are taxed 25% --> net income is now 45EUR
4- you purchase something: VAT is 20% --> 36EUR is your real buying power
5- if what you purchased has an utility, you may be taxed more (gas, housing, etc...)

In the end, out of 100EUR of redistributed value, you can maybe find 30EUR of bottom line purchasing power.
And you can be taxed on the usage of what you created. At least 70% is gone.
This figure is
1- to high (and it costs probably a lot to catch every tax, so there are massive losses for the gvt)
2- not transparent because staked.


My 50cents (15c actually...)

Taxes will be implied to the society because that's the aim for the country leaders to collect from the established business, so that the funds will be used for the improvement of the countries growing economy. Not just in theory but in reality people will behave in the same manner that implementing tax free society can be with exception and not into the general terms and conditions.

of course, if I can imagining a taxless and free society is always what I have imagined when I first saw bitcoin on the market but it's not what it seems bitcoins need to improve a lot or I can say in other words bitcoin is still not prepared for handling our entire population. people should not always depend on just one cryptocurrency they should try on other currencies too. they can save you 10 times more fees than bitcoin.

most people who hates taxes are the one who does not understand how it works and why it should exist. the idea of taxless society is good but it will never be successful since taxes are always present in a state, it is the life and blood of a country in order to sustain operating expenses, keep the safety of its citizen, and to secure the land to invasion.

Taxes aren't always a bad thing. We need taxes to support the economy and develop it. Bitcoin would be a better vehicle in a faster, more efficient society.

There is no way a completely free society can be achieved because when there is absolute freedom, people tend to abuse it. Buying an island means you need to be concerned about the justice syatem because we all have reasons to disagree, the police for security reasons, leadership because any society will need a leader to lead them. If he wants to buy, he should better go enjoy it himself as 3 to 10years from now is not achievable.

If they build a taxless society in a way of large enclosed area, and somehow manage to come to terms with the original owner ( the government) to pay enough for it that the land will become free of property tax for another x years (1000? :D) they will still have to gather money from the citizens to finance commonly used things like power plants, that's unless they decide all citizens are on their own. Having a shared sewage and water treatment, power generator and so on is much cheaper and more efficient.


We don't deduct tax in here. The actual power of your 50c post is 50c :D
Also, I agree with all that you've posted. We shouldn't seek a taxless society, but one where taxes are low and simple to understand. I'd be completely fine with paying a fixed amount each year for the things I'm sharing with others, like roads, hospitals, fire dept, but I'm not fine with being taxed multiple times on every step.

Thx for the tax not deducted ;-)

Taxing bitcoin profits is probably a good thing if we want mass adoption.
Giving 20% on my x100 profits... I am OK with that.

How do you think the country is going to get enough revenue to develop its self and public services? Removing tax is going to hamper development. You need to find an alternative solution for this.

Tax is not a bad thing. Because as a good citizen we have to pay taxes. Because the taxes have also been set according to the income earned. All that is to help the country's economy to grow and be independent. I think that needs to be in the fight is koruptornya. Where the government's way of fighting corrupt.Suhaya tax can be used according to the procedure.

If they can buy a big land and regulate it as they want, it maybe a good way for them to live freely from taxes.
But it should be established outside the territory of a country, as govs could claim to collect the tax from their land.
US or Europe area isn't a good option to avoid taxes, so they may choose a land in the middle of nowhere in Asia continent.

Perhaps we are judging too soon what taxless means. For a functional group of individuals to live together, let's say in an apartment, there must still be some collective activity to maintain the household and pay for common goods. Everyone otherwise works in their own self interest and would rather get the other person to lay while enjoying the outcome.

It might not be called tax but some form of funding mechanism is needed to pay for public goods, if not the society will soon crumble under its own weight due to poor maintenance and lack of public utilities.

This is an incredibly poor idea. It will turn into Lord of the Flies in seconds.

Id rather see tax advantages for BTC in developed countries like the recent proposal for transactions under $600 to be tax free.

I will not move to that country because I love my country so much. I was born in my country, my relatives and friends are in my country. my memories are very much in my country.

Roger Ver saying something and you're taking it serious, interesting.

Obviously knows, it's impossible to build tax free, rich society since governments will never let this happen.

I don't know if that is possible, countries that are tax free are those with huge oil supplies like Brunei among others and I don't know what is Roger Ver's definition of free society, there's no such things as free in any country but it's an interesting idea, let's see if it materialize.

Yes it is and that would really happen if there is no tax on that society they do that just because they hate tax but they dont think some possibilities of paying taxes if they asked me about yhis my decisions are no i dont want to live on that society.

it is true to be a good citizen we are obliged to pay taxes, many developing country countries that have implemented the tax system for the country to be better and can continue to grow.
so I do not agree with a country that is free to buy something let alone the land.

Well, taxless, I don't think so. In my country so many rich ppl are running from paying taxes.
So if it's really true, then it was like giving them a chance to run even further.
It's also for its country, too, none else. For its improvement such as economic growth, environment, etc.
So it could be a better country.

if this happen in a country everything will fall apart. with no tax government can't fanction and government will gone. the rich will rule for sure because they can do whatever they want.

This has been brought up so many times but who the hell is going to pay for infrastructure? Hospitals? What if you break your leg? You just get shot and life moves on? Idk, I'm skeptical that it could ever work unless the 'government' in this country is invested in cryptocurrency and everything is bought with the interest made from them.

I've read somewhere before that an experimental society existed where there was no ruling body or government, everyone lived freely and they were from a bunch of different races. I think it was called 'auroville' and it is located somewhere at India. It was said to be peaceful and everyone there lived equally. It sounded as if it came straight from a dystopian novel. I'm not quite sure if this is true but if it were, I wouldn't choose to live there. Although fiction, endings of dystopian novels don't end nicely. In the end, some sort of rebellion or massacre is bound to happen. Despite the complications of social classes and economic inequality experienced in my country, I'd rather strive to survive in it.

Agreed. People are now smart and you have to have something that could at least maintain the economy. Indeed some countries are tactless but they are the main manufacturers of infrastructures of other countries. Or they energy that could help them without requiring there citizen for taxes. It's not easy to be a tactless country be alone having a free society. There will be hierarchy for more organized living rather than scavenging everywhere.

i could only said wow its a great idea but i think roger and his friends need a big money to buy that land especially we know that the land price in us/europe is too expensive. but once the country is born, i think many people will thinking to move into that country and live in there. but i am not sure it will happen in 2-3 years from now on because to build or create a country will need many things and not just the money involve.

I don't know, man. That sounds good on paper but could very well be a disaster in reality. It's hard to blame people for losing trust in their governments, but they're vital to modern society. It's easy to say 'Hey, it'll be fine, we all have money and we can coexist with few problems so we don't need a ruling body', but you have to consider that you're dealing with different people with different sets of values and ideologies.

You also have to factor in the use Bitcoins to the equation, which as we know, is easily used for crime. Will you be able to trust your neighbors knowing full well they can do whatever they want and get away with it? The rise of conflict won't be a question of 'if', but rather of 'when'. It will be complete and utter anarchy.

Taxless and free society? Sure. Cypherpunks have been coming up with the goods and I can't wait to see what comes up next.

sad to say but most of the countries have experienced those kind problem since the beginning when those officials had exist in the history. as the news of the improvements and modifications has already spread throughout the world, we cannot neglect the fact that someday the government will take their actions and maybe right now they are planning somekind of strategy to make us lose interest about bitcoin.

How does Roger plan to pay for his "Water World" once it is operational? He needs money to keep things going. Either the community as a whole works to deliver some good or service that can be sold for income or the money comes from the people that are living in this community. The former is called a company, the latter is called taxes.

Either way the people are required to devote personal resources for the common benefit of the community. I'd rather be able to do what I want to earn money to pay taxes than be required to do what someone else mandates I must do to meet that same burden of support for the community.

There's nothing bad about taxes. There's something bad about taxes when each of us doesn't have the right or the representation to decide what gets taxed and by how much.

I am not interested to move in a new country. Even if it is taxless and free society as what they claim, I am happy with my own country. Tax is the blood of the government so there is no problem for me to pay tax because it is my obligation as a citizen. There may be some problems in our country because some of the government officials use the tax for their own benefit but I believe that our country would still progress because there are good leaders who genuinely support the people.

Nobody likes taxes but they are fundamental to a working society i think, i agree that there is a lot of taxmoney wasted but people and money is corruption no way around that.

There always has to be someone in charge or i believe we will fall back alot as a society.
In the end i think your view on this also depends on the country you are from and the government it has.

And what he means by the word free society, this means equality, but then it is not a country, since the country has by definition the supreme power. There is nothing of this and there will not be, but there will be complete bacchanalia.

You do not like taxes fees while you want your country can develop more, this is a wrong thought.
The government need have money to develop your country, like ICO projects or other projects calling for investment.

This is so stupid, who will agree to it, once you leave your country and go to this guy country, you're under his control, plus which country passport will you use to travel, since no country will recognize this country. Also if some militants attack you, who will come to save you, I don't like taxes, who does but this idea is a stupidly at it's best. I don't think this Roger guy ever thinks for others, all he thinks for himself and it's a no go.

No hopes of ever happening. A country is not ruled by one person sitting on the throne but also by everyone else in the country. If taxes are totally removed there is no money for the government to pay for the expenses. Now many people believe that the governments waste that money but even if they do there are so many government services that people fail to recognize and thus make such claims.

Also a free society is a false term. A society can never be free - the word society means we are bound to each others support and cannot survive without it. If you really want to be free there will only be anarchy unless a society is developed.

There is no chance that this such thing will ever happen, a society without a government or rules will be abused by many for the benefits of themselves only.it will only happen when everyone have one point in view in life and if they understand each and everyone.

It is still all about in a planning stage  I think and there is no physical move has been created yet because such kind of thing has never been done before in our lifetime and doing that will require a big budget financially of course and a lot of work, how do the significance of this project will help the people that will take part of it because giving people things that is free will make them unproductive.

I think it is a long time ago when a new country has been born. It is quite interested that there is a group of people that have and idea in making a new country but we must know first the essence of this project before making an action to it as this people is business minded people that will not take or make a project that is not profitable for them, Silicon valley people, if you know what I mean.

I appreciate him trying to advance civilization but I don't think this is a good idea. I'd rather live in a country that uses Bitcoins for daily transactions, big and small.

[/quote]

Swiss cantons model / Ireland model
--> still taxes, but extremely low in order to attract big bag holders and play the volume.



[/quote]

Ireland only has cheap taxes if your a big cooperation like google paypal  facebook  .Regular citizens  pay 42%  tax on there income

Free society awakes in me association with Sadom & Hamora, or if the talk is about tax free society - communism or a village of old years where people changed goods that they produced to get products or services they needed. Whatever it would be, I support enthusiasts and I would like to see better from a side how this country is going to work.

very difficult in Asian countries because the possibility of the government will not free all people buy the land without any taxes, because from there state income comes automatically if it is not your country impossible will happen.

I do not think that such a thing like a really free society is possible.
A societiy is made of individuals, and when the number of individuals grows, you will have a few with questionable moral there as well.
Those will try to rule the others. The only way to prevent that is for the others to stick together, and set up some rules as well...

I don't know, I not completely against taxes, because they do provide a way for everyone to contribute to development of our country. I don't like of course the way that the money raised from taxes is sometimes used, so it's hard to imagine how things would work. I would still like this to go through, it would be a great social experiment.

Buying off land?
Since Alaska no country is stupid enough to sell land.

People are mistaken when they hear somebody has bought an island in Greece.
They bought that island like you buy a flat, the country that owns that land is still Greece and they can do whatever they want with it if they decide to nationalize.

And let's be reasonable.
Let's say you achieve independence. You become prosperous. What will happen next?
You are going to get invaded by your neighbors and crushed in a matter of hours.

And nobody will save you because it will serve as a lesson from the governments to utopians.

I don't think this will work and it doesn't really sound good. Taxless? Come on... Even if my country is pretty much f_cked up at the moment, i'd never move to that utopistic land.

Tax free and free society?Oh come on dude,that's impossible when you are in the Philippines. Everything in your surroundings is payable by tax no one is excempted even the infant,their milk and diapers are payable of tax. So how can we imagine the country without tax? In term of free society thats also a big issue in our country when you are against in new administrative you did not get any care specially in politics. The worst scenario is when you are an ordinary man or a poor man any time they can control you or even worst they can take your breath.

Same here. No matter how good does the new country on which it says its Taxless and free society.I dont really care at all and im wondering what would be the location on that place. Its seems so hard to believe to have this kind of society that would exist on this world knowing that most all government or those who rule on the top would end up on being corrupted sooner or later.

Yes it is, taxes are for development, infrastructure, establishments and public services, I think having taxes with everything and everyones money if taxes will go to their purposes but nowadays corruption is being accepted to government and it limits the possibility for a country to become progressive as soon as possible.

Awesome idea..
Would be great to automate such society otherwise the ill you are fleeing from in evil societies may crop up in the new society.


THE SOCIETY ADMINISTRATORS COULD BE:

1. Softwares, bots, codes, robots, machines, can take 60—70% of administrative components.

2. Humans take charge of 15%—25%

The non-human administrators should be:
Hack-proof,
TRANSPARENT,
Unbiased,
Infallible, &
Must never violate the society rules,  
in other to be considered for roles


The new Society/Country MUST BE VERY VERY TRANSPARENT AND SUSTAINABLE.  Freedom (mustn't be harmful to others) MUST be respected.

Should be a society ruled by ideas, innovation and creativity...

For that to happen taxes have to be just and in our current society they never are.
What are just taxes? The ones that treat every person in the same way, meaning the amount you're paying is fixed, the same for every citizen, and made so that it's affordable to all. Unjust taxes are punishing those who are working harder and earning more, because they have to pay more than the rest.

Making people go to jail for not paying those unjust taxes is even more ridiculous. Think about it, you're taking a person that isn't contributing to society and putting him in a jail with murderers, rapists and thieves. He didn't pay his share, so is in debt to the government, yet the government spends money to prosecute and hold him against his will, feeding him, paying his medical bills while he's in. The government always knows how to waste money and make people's lives miserable.

I don't believe in society without taxes. I associate taxes with all facilities and infrastructure available around. From my own experience, live in countries where taxes are high is much better than live in countries where you pay low taxes

They might have some sort of plan that they aren't revealing yet. What comes to mind not knowing what their plans are is either: a buy in situation where people can either contribute financially or with skills (ie. engineers, doctors, builders).

When I read about those libertarian countries it always makes me wonder how are they planning to keep this freedom and maintain order.
If a poor country happens to have such rich libertarian country for a neighbor it may try to attack and plunder. And what if one of their fellow libertarians becomes a psychotic serial killer? Will they be able to track him down? It's not something a neighborhood watch can handle ;)

That is really interesting and I'm all for that idea but don't forget tax is there to build roads and oay for services. Though it's wisely abused more then it's sont helping that is where the problem likes. If you split a living area into sections of a few families say 100 then those 100 are responsible for their sector looking good and having roads and Inferstructure

Exactly you pay taxes because you are supposed to take part in development of your country. It can’t happen in reality that if you are making some tax free society then how would that society grows. There must be some income that society administration needs for fulfill the needs. So it is not possible in current situation.

It seems to be a good idea...Pay no taxes and live free. But believe me, it is not at all practical. In Such society, Only rich and Strong can survive, the Crime rate will increase like HELL. Taxes are somehow important to live free and safe.

If they can put together a basic corpus to take care of running expenditure, they should be fine. You might have to pay to get citizenship of this country. Corporations might pay taxes. Hell, they could even have an ICO.

I'm a liberal person but I think tax are needed to be in safe in a country. Police and other forces will be helping the harmony of the society and this will help us live in harmony. We can be free without tax but this might not be good.

You can not run a country without taxes. Who is going to pay to build hospitals, schools, road, educational program or whatever? The government? But from where the money will come from? Not the sky, can't rely on loans forever. A govt. can't ake full income by trading cryptos.
Taxes are needed to improve and sustain a country

I'm not interested at all. I love my homeland. but I'm interested in owning a house or buying a piece of land in europe, that's my goal for the future.

Roger is a clown. But his beliefs are interesting. Roger grew up in the USA and somehow supports Voluntaryism, which is simply a form of anarchism. I think that state structures are useful for bitcoin to flourish. Lack of organization and authority wouldn't exactly help a digital financial tool to have more use.

I agree with you mate taxeless of bitcoin  for society are good ideas because every transaction use bitcoin have fee and transaction fee are also taxes from the localities, and every you buy food or anything are have taxes.

I dont know much about france but what you have said system is quite alike in India. But at the end the thing is that we are actually being provided everything by the government only. Do you think one can live without cops? Or without an army standing by the borders? But yes I agree that transparency must be made and bureaucracy must be removed.

There has been many attempts to try to create new countries and all of them have failed, this is not going to work, the best chance is to find a country with a very low population and that is very small and then buy the government with the promises that if they pass the laws that we want that a lot of investments are going to come their way, in a way it is going to be an attempt to create an utopia and if we are successful then we may be able to create it.

I don't think even starting it on a pilot basis will work because as humans from our past generations (even in slavery) were made to pay taxes and taxes are what makes our countries better .

The idea sounds nice, but I shall wait to get more details. I wonder how this new "place" will deal with bad people. The rapists, the thieves, etc... A major issue in Europe today, is that in every big cities, there are thousands of beggars and penniless African migrants, how will this new society handle those people? With which money if there's no tax?

I have the same opinion. I don’t think so we are ever going to experience such society. This is very idealistic approach whereas in the real world, we can never live a tax free life. Taxes are there to be sued on us for our welfare but unfortunately they are used to kills others.

Taxes have existed one way or another, however the tax that most people hate the income tax is a relatively new tax, and those taxes mostly go to pay debts and interest rates on those debts and not to improve the country so you are mistaken in that, this is why I think it is better to try to convince an already existing country that our ideas are the correct ones and if they implement them great prosperity is going to come their way.

An ideal society that he envisages is a myth that won't come true by no means. State existence is not about the bad policies of government and how they tax citizens to death alone but about keeping the social setting in order without having to put life and property in jeopardy.

A society exist when people go about and carry out their business without the fear of being attacked by someone whose duty he believes is to attack but keeping the streets safe to a large extent is the payment of money to some people who are the police officers and that alone comes from the taxes we pay. Imagine a tax free society, how do we ensure that order will still be kept?

Only if the people allowed in will be limited by virtue of stringent conditions then its no longer free.

Taxes is important, but the government have some parts try use it for personal purpose and make profit from it. Therefore, in our eye, taxes not good and it like a way to make money of the government.

Europe has been through worse times than this migrant "invasion".
Everybody forgets about the attacks of italian spanish or greek left wing extremist supported by the URSS.
And besides those there were IRA, ETA and many more.

Forget rapists and thieves.
How is this country going to protect itself?
With no army will the citizens take arms and fight? This sounds so stupid but I don't doubt there will be some lunatics buying it.

There is no such thing a a free society, a society with no rules.Even if you abolish all the laws by default there would be a supreme one, the law of the jungle where the one with power will beat the ass of the weaker one. Enjoy the 11k bc scenario.

A state cannot be total tax free bit it can be reduce up to grass root level. The only way to attain such situation is use bitcoins because there is no tension of tax in the bitcoin and no revenue can be deducted so invest in bitcoin and use it for your daily life transactions.

Meeh…it has been a long time since I’m thinking about leaving my country but… I always feel like I prefer my country more than any other. But I will still move, but not to your so called Utopia lol. I mean a real country.

for me such society will never be materialized.
and even if it did become true i don't think it will last for a long time.
time will come that leaders will have to step up.
and this leaders will not be able to run a society without financial support which could only come from citizens taxes.
therefore time will come that society will crumble on its own.
:D

If this is happened than where the govt earn money, you know most of govt income comes from taxes.
Taxless condition leads to stop development processes.

Why you live your country my friend what is reason you leave your country I think you did not have a fayselty in your country my friend I give a little suggestion join bitcoin singer camping and change your life style

do you think he solve the language problem ?

http://biblelight.net/tower-painting-parliament.jpg

That is not really an issue, different countries have different rules when it comes to allowing you to live in their country or to get citizenship, in the past there were as many languages as right now but Latin was the official language in Europe that is why you will see that most scientific treatises were written in Latin, today English has that role so if such a country is created English must be its official language.

I doubt we will ever see a day when the society is tax free and cashless. It would be a miracle if something like this happens. Instead, I feel that crypto currencies could become one of the primary alternate means of payment in the near future.

I think its too early to decide about future. I can see much more potential to the younger generation as I am 19 right now and I have already felt the educational growth the bitcoin has caused. Bitcoin has not only bought a new money system but also a new concept to study about. We are already lacking on ideas so this will help on growth. in addition to it, people can now understand how money actually works under the hood.

At present the tax less and free society is getting diminished. When the country has good wealth, it never thinks of the taxes and it tries to function of its own. At some point when the wealth reduces, automatically it is in need of an earning to compensate the past income. Similar manner tax has been getting levied over each and every nation whom in the past is a tax free nation. Now most countries who has legalized bitcoin too have plans to tax bitcoin beyond certain volume usage.

Yeah, what kind of plans are those, can you point to a source?
Because I call this pure bs.

You can't tax bitcoin on usage volume.
I can send one coin from one wallet to another 100 times , how is the government going to tax me?
They can only tax things that get converted into fiat value, they can't tax bitcoins and they will never tax it on volume ,you tax profits not revenue.

This is utopia and it is not possible because no society ever survives without the citizenry giving back as tax to the government. How is the government going to survive without that. Except OP is saying the scenario exists without any known jurisdiction and in a state of no law?

The thread is only about a taxless society not about a cashless society as well, I think in the future it may be possible if we go to anarchy, while many people think of anarchy as something bad, anarchy only means the absence of a central government, that is all, people could create a decentralized government that was truly representative with todays technology.

Maybe you should first try to understand the main concept of taxation. We pay taxes to finance the government. The government needs its finance to do its duties. There is no perfect government; corruption is born in every generation so just suck it up. There's no perfect system even that tax-less nation. If a country like that will ever born, I don't think it will last. Because 1, where it will get its finance. 2, how secured is that country (in economic, international relation, and military context). 3, how will it regulate its citizens?

Something similar has already been invented. Such communities were called phalanstère. Only they failed.

This is a good step and good vision. Because many people are excited here especially those who know bitcoins and cryptos. But I'm sure that it's going to take some time now so many countries still do not make the bitcoins and crypto legal. So we are really going to have to push it as a money and become a cashless society and the whole world

Taxless? Means no government or whatsoever? People without rule are disastrous for sure, cant even think of it happening
But lets see how it progresses  ;D

the idea is as bold as starting a decentralize currency (like bitcoin)...watching..

good luck, someday i wish i could go to a place like that :D

Such a society is a mirrage. No tax means no ruling a free society but with freedom comes nuisance too. Have you ever seen a class in discipline without a teacher??  Then how can we expect such a country without any ruler or observer?

maybe roger ver and co. might want to talk to this nation president?

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/915894/if-i-have-my-way-i-would-like-to-destroy-govt-says-duterte (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/915894/if-i-have-my-way-i-would-like-to-destroy-govt-says-duterte)

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/916075/destroy-govt-duterte-just-fed-up-with-corruption-says-palace (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/916075/destroy-govt-duterte-just-fed-up-with-corruption-says-palace)

https://news.mb.com.ph/2017/07/22/duterte-wants-to-reinvent-govt/ (https://news.mb.com.ph/2017/07/22/duterte-wants-to-reinvent-govt/)

the guy is revolutionary and the country is poor..

Every extreme isn't good. A total free society doesn't work, people should try to find balance on their lifes instead of going through extreme paths that won't return any positive result. Ideas like this are always appearing, but until now I haven't seen anything successful. One thing is to ask for less taxes and fair fees, another thing is to ask for a chaotic anarchy.

Good idea, but building a country is not the same as building a property, there are many aspects to consider. and if it is successfully executed then many people will migrate to the country.

Let me know if they will succeed in makinga society that is free. Hahahahhha nowadays MONEY is important if you do not have then you'll probably gonna die
Accept the fact that there will be no free now
If this will succed then i will congratulate them but this is very hard to do

Whaaaaat.. no this is not how will society will grow if they dont have taxes that is used to make their country stable and to grow their economy..
Money is life for now you can't do if you do not have money..

Well taxes aren't all that there is to build a country after all there are a lot of countries that are tax free. Take the gulf countries  for instance; they are being built with their oil reserves and not taxes the same can also be done with agriculture or any natural resources without taxes so i will suggest to the lazy governments to find new ways of building their economies rather than impose heavy taxes on it's citizenry.

Yes Man .I don't know what the government doing with the collecting taxes.Nothing. Bull shit.I was in Gulf country. Here no taxes are collect from the Employee. The are free to pay tax.All they work will make their family grow fast .Our Government is not depend on people's money .So like us all country's government should make free of tax.

no, i am not interested because i am comfortable living in my country with my family and people around. if they really want to build a truly tax-free society, they can take people in a troubled country as a form of help from them, so they can build a new nation.

poor countries is also a source of cheap labor...cheap labor is needed to build infrastructures, roads and other essentials to life, power, water, internet. etc.. etc..

This is a very ambitious project that I hope will become reality as soon as possible. In a more realistic view, though, I think it's very unlikely to happen. Something similar was planned to be in Liberland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland). Yet no government recognized this state.

A taxless lawless land with no real leadership may sound good on paper, but in the real world it won't work and will descend into chaos. Potentially good, but it depends on how it is structured.

I think it's fine with me because I want to have a free society and at the same time it is taxless. I can see how the world changes slowly with bitcoin so there is a big possibility if this will happen to us all. We all know that tax is from our own money that circulates to everything and to use for the maintenance of the road,help other workers specially those climate victims but if we do it for ourselves to donate and support only people's movement for a particular thing that needs our small help then we can do it. Tax is a burden to us everyday because when we eat,buy groceries,go shopping and the like it always have taxes. So I agree with the idea of a Taxless and a free society.

I completely agree. His concept is a utopia, it sounds good in theory but cannot be put in practice for a variety of reasons. No taxes means no funds for the government, which means no insurance, no education or health support and so on. Even if you erase the concept of a government and just have a "Society", it's impossible. Sociology claims that without government/superior control, people would live like animals in a jungle. Unless it's implied that they are planning to live like the natives.

Exactly, i know that taxes is a big pain in the a** but of course government need funds to operate. I know some countries in the middle east that has a zero tax policy but of course they bleed oil once that oil supply runs out of course they will impose tax on their people. It is great to have these type of dream but in reality it is quite impossible.

Taxation finances the government to supply its operational costs. A country with poor system of taxation never progresses quickly. No likes paying taxes, but then you also benefit from it. I know some governments in other countries are corrupt and shouldn't be trusted, but it's not the reason to hate paying tax. It's an obligation for keeping everything in order.

I think that it is a good news. If there will a country like that exists. I will sell all my asset to buy land in there. That's really a heaven. ;D

The meanest one around becomes king and the cycle repeats. Paradise for those that want their heart's darkest desires go wild.

This sounds like a dream that may never come true no matter how nice it may sound. A taxless and free society is something lots of people will want but I think tax is very important in any country as it helps to regulate wealth.