Taxless and free society?

[ahmad21]

It is called the Principauté de Monaco

Works somehow on a Proof of Stake model: show the dough, live there, pay zero taxes

But the question is that without taxes how will the govt. Manage to accumulate funds? Leave every thing just tell who will take care of law and order? Such society is unimaginable.

Swiss cantons model / Ireland model
--> still taxes, but extremely low in order to attract big bag holders and play the volume.


A taxless society is imho an utopia. Worst case scenario: in order to maintain regalian functions, like order, justice etc, a taxless gvt ha no other option than totalitarism to control the masses.
The anarchist bitching about taxes in the quiet comfort of his suburban-connected home is a laughable vision.


More seriously, if the right amount of tax is one question, but (again imho), for me the TRANSPARENCY and EQUITY of the system is key.

Typical example from France where I come from: the taxes are STAKED and it becomes ridiculous
1- you create 200EUR of value and your company transfers 100 to you as "brutto salary"
2- your company pays 40% of taxes on this -> 60 becomes your "gross income"
3- out of the remaining your are taxed 25% --> net income is now 45EUR
4- you purchase something: VAT is 20% --> 36EUR is your real buying power
5- if what you purchased has an utility, you may be taxed more (gas, housing, etc...)

In the end, out of 100EUR of redistributed value, you can maybe find 30EUR of bottom line purchasing power.
And you can be taxed on the usage of what you created. At least 70% is gone.
This figure is
1- to high (and it costs probably a lot to catch every tax, so there are massive losses for the gvt)
2- not transparent because staked.


My 50cents (15c actually...)

I dont know much about france but what you have said system is quite alike in India. But at the end the thing is that we are actually being provided everything by the government only. Do you think one can live without cops? Or without an army standing by the borders? But yes I agree that transparency must be made and bureaucracy must be removed.

[The_Dark_Knight]

Roger Ver is announcing that he's working together with a team to build a completely free society by buying off land in US/Europe or Asia.

Live stream was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF52B90xws

What do you think, can this new country be born? Could we move there in 2-3 years? Would you be interested?

There has been many attempts to try to create new countries and all of them have failed, this is not going to work, the best chance is to find a country with a very low population and that is very small and then buy the government with the promises that if they pass the laws that we want that a lot of investments are going to come their way, in a way it is going to be an attempt to create an utopia and if we are successful then we may be able to create it.

[szpalata]

Roger Ver is announcing that he's working together with a team to build a completely free society by buying off land in US/Europe or Asia.

Live stream was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF52B90xws

What do you think, can this new country be born? Could we move there in 2-3 years? Would you be interested?

There has been many attempts to try to create new countries and all of them have failed, this is not going to work, the best chance is to find a country with a very low population and that is very small and then buy the government with the promises that if they pass the laws that we want that a lot of investments are going to come their way, in a way it is going to be an attempt to create an utopia and if we are successful then we may be able to create it.

I don't think even starting it on a pilot basis will work because as humans from our past generations (even in slavery) were made to pay taxes and taxes are what makes our countries better .

[countryfree]

The idea sounds nice, but I shall wait to get more details. I wonder how this new "place" will deal with bad people. The rapists, the thieves, etc... A major issue in Europe today, is that in every big cities, there are thousands of beggars and penniless African migrants, how will this new society handle those people? With which money if there's no tax?

[LuffyD.Monkey]

This can only exist if resources are no longer finite (requirement for some form of next to free energy and the abilty to utilise this to shape matter) Sounds sci fi to me!

I have the same opinion. I don’t think so we are ever going to experience such society. This is very idealistic approach whereas in the real world, we can never live a tax free life. Taxes are there to be sued on us for our welfare but unfortunately they are used to kills others.

[The_Dark_Knight]

Roger Ver is announcing that he's working together with a team to build a completely free society by buying off land in US/Europe or Asia.

Live stream was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF52B90xws

What do you think, can this new country be born? Could we move there in 2-3 years? Would you be interested?

There has been many attempts to try to create new countries and all of them have failed, this is not going to work, the best chance is to find a country with a very low population and that is very small and then buy the government with the promises that if they pass the laws that we want that a lot of investments are going to come their way, in a way it is going to be an attempt to create an utopia and if we are successful then we may be able to create it.

I don't think even starting it on a pilot basis will work because as humans from our past generations (even in slavery) were made to pay taxes and taxes are what makes our countries better .

Taxes have existed one way or another, however the tax that most people hate the income tax is a relatively new tax, and those taxes mostly go to pay debts and interest rates on those debts and not to improve the country so you are mistaken in that, this is why I think it is better to try to convince an already existing country that our ideas are the correct ones and if they implement them great prosperity is going to come their way.

[audaciousbeing]

Roger Ver is announcing that he's working together with a team to build a completely free society by buying off land in US/Europe or Asia.

Live stream was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF52B90xws

What do you think, can this new country be born? Could we move there in 2-3 years? Would you be interested?

An ideal society that he envisages is a myth that won't come true by no means. State existence is not about the bad policies of government and how they tax citizens to death alone but about keeping the social setting in order without having to put life and property in jeopardy.

A society exist when people go about and carry out their business without the fear of being attacked by someone whose duty he believes is to attack but keeping the streets safe to a large extent is the payment of money to some people who are the police officers and that alone comes from the taxes we pay. Imagine a tax free society, how do we ensure that order will still be kept?

Only if the people allowed in will be limited by virtue of stringent conditions then its no longer free.

[fearcoka]

This can only exist if resources are no longer finite (requirement for some form of next to free energy and the abilty to utilise this to shape matter) Sounds sci fi to me!

I have the same opinion. I don’t think so we are ever going to experience such society. This is very idealistic approach whereas in the real world, we can never live a tax free life. Taxes are there to be sued on us for our welfare but unfortunately they are used to kills others.

Taxes is important, but the government have some parts try use it for personal purpose and make profit from it. Therefore, in our eye, taxes not good and it like a way to make money of the government.

[stompix]

The idea sounds nice, but I shall wait to get more details. I wonder how this new "place" will deal with bad people. The rapists, the thieves, etc... A major issue in Europe today, is that in every big cities, there are thousands of beggars and penniless African migrants, how will this new society handle those people? With which money if there's no tax?

Europe has been through worse times than this migrant "invasion".
Everybody forgets about the attacks of italian spanish or greek left wing extremist supported by the URSS.
And besides those there were IRA, ETA and many more.

Forget rapists and thieves.
How is this country going to protect itself?
With no army will the citizens take arms and fight? This sounds so stupid but I don't doubt there will be some lunatics buying it.

There is no such thing a a free society, a society with no rules.Even if you abolish all the laws by default there would be a supreme one, the law of the jungle where the one with power will beat the ass of the weaker one. Enjoy the 11k bc scenario.

[BitcoinCommodor]

Awesome idea..
Would be great to automate such society otherwise the ill you are fleeing from in evil societies may crop up in the new society.


THE SOCIETY ADMINISTRATORS COULD BE:

1. Softwares, bots, codes, robots, machines, can take 60—70% of administrative components.

2. Humans take charge of 15%—25%

The non-human administrators should be:
Hack-proof,
TRANSPARENT,
Unbiased,
Infallible, &
Must never violate the society rules,  
in other to be considered for roles


The new Society/Country MUST BE VERY VERY TRANSPARENT AND SUSTAINABLE.  Freedom (mustn't be harmful to others) MUST be respected.

Should be a society ruled by ideas, innovation and creativity...

A state cannot be total tax free bit it can be reduce up to grass root level. The only way to attain such situation is use bitcoins because there is no tension of tax in the bitcoin and no revenue can be deducted so invest in bitcoin and use it for your daily life transactions.

[darewaller]

It would sound like a really good idea to many, but it isn't in my opinion, taxes are necessary for development, society should be free but people should pay taxes and government should use it for the welfare of the people.

Yes it is, taxes are for development, infrastructure, establishments and public services, I think having taxes with everything and everyones money if taxes will go to their purposes but nowadays corruption is being accepted to government and it limits the possibility for a country to become progressive as soon as possible.

For that to happen taxes have to be just and in our current society they never are.
What are just taxes? The ones that treat every person in the same way, meaning the amount you're paying is fixed, the same for every citizen, and made so that it's affordable to all. Unjust taxes are punishing those who are working harder and earning more, because they have to pay more than the rest.

Making people go to jail for not paying those unjust taxes is even more ridiculous. Think about it, you're taking a person that isn't contributing to society and putting him in a jail with murderers, rapists and thieves. He didn't pay his share, so is in debt to the government, yet the government spends money to prosecute and hold him against his will, feeding him, paying his medical bills while he's in. The government always knows how to waste money and make people's lives miserable.

Meeh…it has been a long time since I’m thinking about leaving my country but… I always feel like I prefer my country more than any other. But I will still move, but not to your so called Utopia lol. I mean a real country.

[mevmike]

for me such society will never be materialized.
and even if it did become true i don't think it will last for a long time.
time will come that leaders will have to step up.
and this leaders will not be able to run a society without financial support which could only come from citizens taxes.
therefore time will come that society will crumble on its own.

[jatin729]

If this is happened than where the govt earn money, you know most of govt income comes from taxes.
Taxless condition leads to stop development processes.

[damnek]

It would sound like a really good idea to many, but it isn't in my opinion, taxes are necessary for development, society should be free but people should pay taxes and government should use it for the welfare of the people.

Yes it is, taxes are for development, infrastructure, establishments and public services, I think having taxes with everything and everyones money if taxes will go to their purposes but nowadays corruption is being accepted to government and it limits the possibility for a country to become progressive as soon as possible.

For that to happen taxes have to be just and in our current society they never are.
What are just taxes? The ones that treat every person in the same way, meaning the amount you're paying is fixed, the same for every citizen, and made so that it's affordable to all. Unjust taxes are punishing those who are working harder and earning more, because they have to pay more than the rest.

Making people go to jail for not paying those unjust taxes is even more ridiculous. Think about it, you're taking a person that isn't contributing to society and putting him in a jail with murderers, rapists and thieves. He didn't pay his share, so is in debt to the government, yet the government spends money to prosecute and hold him against his will, feeding him, paying his medical bills while he's in. The government always knows how to waste money and make people's lives miserable.

Meeh…it has been a long time since I’m thinking about leaving my country but… I always feel like I prefer my country more than any other. But I will still move, but not to your so called Utopia lol. I mean a real country.

Why you live your country my friend what is reason you leave your country I think you did not have a fayselty in your country my friend I give a little suggestion join bitcoin singer camping and change your life style

[Andre_Goldman]

Roger Ver is announcing that he's working together with a team to build a completely free society by buying off land in US/Europe or Asia.

Live stream was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF52B90xws

What do you think, can this new country be born? Could we move there in 2-3 years? Would you be interested?

do you think he solve the language problem ?

[The_Dark_Knight]

Roger Ver is announcing that he's working together with a team to build a completely free society by buying off land in US/Europe or Asia.

Live stream was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF52B90xws

What do you think, can this new country be born? Could we move there in 2-3 years? Would you be interested?

do you think he solve the language problem ?

That is not really an issue, different countries have different rules when it comes to allowing you to live in their country or to get citizenship, in the past there were as many languages as right now but Latin was the official language in Europe that is why you will see that most scientific treatises were written in Latin, today English has that role so if such a country is created English must be its official language.

[3kpk3]

I doubt we will ever see a day when the society is tax free and cashless. It would be a miracle if something like this happens. Instead, I feel that crypto currencies could become one of the primary alternate means of payment in the near future.

[jak3]

I think its too early to decide about future. I can see much more potential to the younger generation as I am 19 right now and I have already felt the educational growth the bitcoin has caused. Bitcoin has not only bought a new money system but also a new concept to study about. We are already lacking on ideas so this will help on growth. in addition to it, people can now understand how money actually works under the hood.

[ASHLIUSZ]

At present the tax less and free society is getting diminished. When the country has good wealth, it never thinks of the taxes and it tries to function of its own. At some point when the wealth reduces, automatically it is in need of an earning to compensate the past income. Similar manner tax has been getting levied over each and every nation whom in the past is a tax free nation. Now most countries who has legalized bitcoin too have plans to tax bitcoin beyond certain volume usage.

[stompix]

Now most countries who has legalized bitcoin too have plans to tax bitcoin beyond certain volume usage.

Yeah, what kind of plans are those, can you point to a source?
Because I call this pure bs.

You can't tax bitcoin on usage volume.
I can send one coin from one wallet to another 100 times , how is the government going to tax me?
They can only tax things that get converted into fiat value, they can't tax bitcoins and they will never tax it on volume ,you tax profits not revenue.