Bitcoin Forum

Locking thread due to refund status being a known quantity now.

Yifu has made good on his refund promise except for 2 bugged refunds which will be handled separately.


Update:
New refunds have started to be processed.


I can vouch that I received my refund and the 1000BTC does show up being sent out.  If I had to guess, the is refunding in roughly store order number.  Since my order is now "complete" I will share my order number and if anyone else would like to do the same, we may be able to help folks determine where they stand in the refund line.

9 refunds clearly posted here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN


---------------

Not much more to report.

Just noticed my store status just went to refunded.

Not in my wallet yet, but I think the wait is over.

Progress!

Thanks Yifu!

Edit -- Update for status:
Anenome5 - submitted a refund request early and received a full payout
                - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=257748.msg2750933#msg2750933

jspielbe -no refund transfer yet (edit for unrelated BTC transfer not from Bitsyncom)  Refund processing completed 8.28.2013  - Store Order Number 4513
Btcsql - received refund.
Mik3 -   received refund
6 other refunds seen in blockchain.

Great, maybe something will move on with notrefunded orders ;X


EDIT: now store gave me error.

Order #47xx, the status is also refunded. But nothing in my wallet yet...

Mine just went to refunded too. No BTC hit my wallet yet.

Oshiiit mine went refunded too, no BTC also yet.

Yep, mine went to refund too.
And no btc received either..

Mine changed to refunded as well. I haven't been able to check my wallet yet for the coins, but will take a look tonight.

Has anyone got both 'refunded' and received their coins?

Showing up as refunded, no coins yet here either

Yeah nothing yet on my end either.

#70xx "refunded"

I'm #44xx and also at "refunded" status, but nothing in my wallet yet.

I was sure #3 started with #4500 ?

I was likely one of the first, if not the first to order. I had my order in within seconds of the store opening.

Speculation:  If they are doing a refund sweep of the order book, they might be starting the fulfillment logistics/production scheduling for the batch.

Sure hope so. But 'shipping' was to start Monday. Production should have happened a few weeks ago.

I wonder if they will sell the units that people got a refund on?

Refunded is past tense for refund right? Did I miss something?

AFAIK no one in this thread has received their coins yet..  just the store update to 'refunded'. I agree that it should say 'refund in progress' instead of 'refunded' or something to that effect.

I'm happy to see all of these refunds on order numbers less than 6xxx.   ;D

Order changed to "refunded," but no coins received yet.

Order #8xxx. How do you like them apples?

@BitSyncom do you care to input any information at this point? Saying everyone has been refunded when in fact no one has seems a bit odd, if not extremely suspicious. There was an option that a Russian was able to do through Bitpay. Is this how the refunds will ultimately be processed?

Same here

Really? Did all you guys actually ask for a refund too? I don't see anyone saying that.

I asked for a refund on Friday I think it was, using the link provided in the newsletter they sent out that day, gave them all the details they asked for (Bitpay URL, Order#, etc.) and received a full refund practically that day. Maybe I was one of the first refunds they processed, dunno.

I asked for a refund because the numbers seem too skinny now; I doubt whether we could have achieved ROI, too many unknowns (http://thegenesisblock.com/latest-shipment-of-avalon-asics-could-increase-network-hashrate-by-500/).

Also, my store status says "refunded" also. Maybe it's just a store bug on their part if you guys didn't ask for refunds.

Or maybe they've decided to refund everyone and are waiting to get send-to addresses from you all. I gave them a new address, I didn't receive coins from the one I originally sent from.

Also, my order number is in the 9000's.

It's hard to believe you at this point since there have been so many trolls on these threads.

I asked for a refund too, a few days after the newsletter. This morning, status was updated to 'refunded' with no actual refund provided.

And the form we submitted had an address field where we type in the send-to address, so that should not be a problem.

What sort of proof would you like. I assure you I'm being forthright here.

I was about to give the blockchain.info transaction URL in that post but I didn't particularly want to dox my coins. But I guess it doesn't matter really ultimately. Here the tx off my QT:

https://i.imgur.com/Ews3gw0.png

Here's the corresponding Blockchain url: https://blockchain.info/address/1FqkceZNHe7jrviD2KPCUKV89FfyRraHdq

I tried looking backwards into a few of those sending addresses but didn't find anything particularly interesting. For all I know they're purchases off some exchange and not even related to Bitsyncom or Bitpay. Maybe we have some blockchain wizards in here whom can bring blockchain-treeing visualization powers to bear or something.

Edit:

Here's the other tx's to fill out the full 102 btc or w/e, plus some change I already had on there:

https://i.imgur.com/f7RtCfL.png

And this shows the last transaction that that one doesn't:

https://i.imgur.com/MQfo5gZ.png

^^ Why is it only 36 BTC?

Nevermind, saw your edit

My new guess is that maybe they don't have enough BTC stored to refund everyone right away. Seems like at least 20 people got refunds. Probably more than that.
Disclaimer: pure speculation

Look at the address in the blockchain. All told, it was refunded ~101 BTC. The refund was sent in four smaller installments.

Same here ???

I'd guess most of the people who asked for a refund early on have got it by now and I'm just the first early-asker to see this thread. They're processing these by hand, no doubt. Maybe they've gotten way more refund requests than they expected.

Sad thing is, maybe that's delaying B3 shipping for those who stayed the course too.

They stated that shipping begins on Monday, we have thursday already and noone reported tracking number.

Did you ask before Monday? The 14th was supposed to be the cut-off date for refunds.

Even if people aren't getting shipping notices on monday, I'll bet they've finalized the shipping and are deep into it now.

https://blockchain.info/address/1BRMsYJ6eK9JxLCAneY4HZC5njRp3kSLEa so thats not enough to refund batch 3's? 44k coins is not a small number.

"Shipping begins" implies a lot, however.

It may mean they begin work on shipping B3 that day. I know everyone wanted it to mean they were actually sending Avalons out the door that day but that's not how I see it working.

I think it means the stacks of finished machines they have in a warehouse over there they now know how many they need to bring in-doors and begin boxing, etc., because the day before was the last day to ask for refund.

So say 200 people asked for 'funds, they bring 300 Avalons to their shipping area and begin paying people to box and label and organize.

Probably the first ones out the door could be by the end of this week or maybe into next week. Who really knows.

Did you find that from mine's blockchain tx history? Or is this a known Bitsyncom addy. I seem to recall them disclaiming others who'd claimed to have found their huge cash of bitcoin, when in fact it was probably a Bitpay addy the whole time.

They needed to handle refunds first thats obvious. Which happened today seems. I really hope to see some trackings tomorrow.

It's more likely that they're just backlogged on the work of actually providing refunds than out of btc, I think.

How many refunds can one person process a day and also be sure they're not getting scammed for 100 btc. People sending partial information, or wrong information, people giving the wrong order# (as I almost did), etc.

It would seem it was a distributing address. It does lead to a 10k wallet  with zero transactions. 19a6dd1f8a07da56704f9e8661854482e062667106207fe797fe3587d78c84932013-03-25 11:17:15 was the first transaction of the wallet address which was the same day as the batch 3 orders opened.

44,228.18543341 BTC was the total amount that passed through this wallet. 600 units x 74.46 = 44676. Give or take a messed up transactions and add some 4 modules and you would seem to end up with almost the same number.

*I did speak with Bitpay also and they are not in control of any of the coins that passed through their service.

Guys, maybe this google form with our bitpay invoice urls was hacked by somebody and after the refund adresses was changed. Is it possible? I'm going crazy. Realy need BitSyncom explanation.

I don't know but I love the google street view of the BitSyncom HQ http://imgur.com/27RLBf8

Something wrong with the windows  :)

Did anyone's status change to 'refunded' who didn't ask for a refund?

I own rental property a few blocks away from that house ... small world. Best investment I've ever made. People are paying a fortune to live in Sheepshead Bay.

Has anyone opened a support ticket about this, or is waiting the name of the game?

Although, even with a ticket, probably still have to wait a week for Yifu to check the boards.

I just want my refund!

Edit: nevermind, submitted my own ticket. I don't know why it says refunded if no money was actually ever refunded. Will update when/if I hear anything.

We are all wondering why it says refunded with no actual refund. Maybe one of two things, first being it was a glitch in the refund process. Secondly well that scenario wouldn't be good, but we all know what it entails.

This is almost certainly a processing address. Even if it's not BitPay's or WalletBit's, it's likely owned by someone else.

Don't be paranoid, they are just tagging the different accounts and orders that need to be refunded.

Thats needed to start sending Batch#3.

Agreed... A sane status would have been "Refund Pending"

That being said, I have no worries that a refund will show up... I think this was just a hack to allow shipping of B3 to get underway.

It would be irony if the refund timing is when BTC/USD value is the same as when we originally placed our B3 orders.  ;D

Then it was a 4 month interest free loan :P

or... language barrier. 

"Refunded" to them means refund pending.  Just be patient.

Shouldn't matter. They priced in bitcoin they should refund in bitcoin. Really that's what all asic companies should do.

No one buys BFL's silly rationale of giving USD refunds. If the price of bitcoin had gone down from when they first sold miners instead of up, who among us doubts they'd be offering the dollar equivalent in bitcoin instead with an equally self-serving rationale. It's all a self-protection strategy. Giving 1500btc refunds on a mini-rig today would break their bank, so of course they're giving USD refunds :P

Has anyone actually received a refund yet?

Updated the OP with refunds reported in the wild.

I explained the situation to BitPay Support, here their answer:

"Chris Ernst (BitPay)
Jul 18 03:56 pm (EDT)
They may not be doing refunds through us and might have their own way to do it. We haven't heard anything yet about how they want to do that.
We can't give you a refund without Avalon asking us to. Have you asked them about the status of your refund?
Chris
BitPay Support"

IMHO, Avalon again play with us in strange manner.

Looks like my refund has at least partially hit.

I am not near my bitcoin-qt client, but I see the refund amount for one of my machines hitting one of my addresses in the blockchain.

I'll report more when I get home.

So far, as expected, it looks like they are refunding manually, so it will take a little bit of time.  I will update the OP as well.  Start checking your wallet's gents.

Was the amount the same quantity of btc that you paid with?

No... only about 48% of what was originally paid... but I am not worrying yet.

No refund received yet... but still not worrying.

I did.

Also there was a delay of 30 min between first and the last payments. So hold tight.

It has been a couple of hours with no new deposits, but since yours arrived in separate chunks, I am not worried.... it just is a little odd.

Damn! That is great news, nothing here yet :(

Has anyone requested a refund and NOT had even the status change?

The status of my order just changed fm "refunded" to "refund processing".

That means it will take another 1 or 2 weeks to refund the money to you.
Oh! Nightmare!

Mine too. Maybe they realized there was people freaking out because their order said "refunded" while they received no coins, so Avalon decided to change it for something clearer.

Hoping the coins arrive soon, seeing that its already Thursday (end of the day in China) and no batch #3 tracking number has been reported I'm very happy I asked for a refund.

It's a pity, I really wanted to have one of those new black beasts, but both the current difficulty and the miner price are too high.

Progress redport:
Koob received a call from customs about a shipment.  Confirmed tracking number for his B3... so they are now shipping. 

My refund is still not complete, but, my status is "refund processing" so I am not freaking out.  With BTC lower than I like, there is no rush for me to get it back (though I do want it back  ;D )

Yeah, I'm pretty pleased they updated the status to processing. It saying refunded but not actually having received coins made us just think someone hacked the form or something else... Funny how a bit of wording changes everything lol

Still waiting for my refund on this end

If someone is late for refund and gets tracking number, I am willing to buy unit.

Please PM me.

"Refund Processing" is much better wording.

OH NO!!!

They are shipping my unit despite my request for a REFUND!

This is so upsetting. Yifu are you out there? Can you please contact me??

What country are you in?
What is your resale price?
Do you have a tracking number?

When did you submit your refund request, and did your Store status ever get updated to 'Refund processing'?

US
All I would like to do is recoup the 76.46 BTC! or Best Offer
I do have a tracking number, but not sure if I should post it (didn't someone almost get scammed by doing that?).



I submitted the request July 13th, and the support ticket was received. But they never changed my status to refund.


And it looks like DHL already has it...what a bummer this is.

What's your order number ?

#6XXX

This makes no sense at all.
My 46XX order is still in "processing" ???
How did you get the tracking # ?
Via email or from the Avalon store webpage ?

If you submitted the refund request through their customer support system, odds are that they never received it. I think we were supposed to use that Google Forms thing they set up for us.

Oh wow...I could have sworn I read somewhere else that we were supposed to submit a ticket... they even offer "Refund" as a subject for the ticket!

What to do... what to do...

I hope they at least check the tickets before sending the refund. I put the wrong refund address into the google doc form (stupidly I put the address I paid to instead of paid from) and submitted a ticket with the correct address and relevant proof that I was who I said I was.

Seeing as how they didn't even touch my ticket, I would NOT assume that!

Do everything you can to contact them.

Anyone get a full refund yet?

Did your status on the store go to "refunded"?

I did. And yes.

Sorry... yes.
I should have been more clean. 
Was wondering if anyone in "Refund Processing" got a full refund and had it go to "Refunded" state.

My ticket status hasn't changed.  Still showing 'Being Processed' since logging a ticket 25 days ago.

I will refund your order.... I mean I will re-buy it from you and pay for shipping to my place.

Upping my offer to $5000 per.

  :D

I think the middle of August you might get some takers (at that price)  ;)

I've been out of the loop for a bit on bitcoin talk and Avalon over the last 3 or 4 months.  Why are people getting refunded on their batch 3's?  Is Avalon forcing them to take refunds, or are people looking for a refund on their own, and if so why?

Just check the current hash rate of the whole net you will get the answer.

There's a ton of companies that have scheduled to release a crapload of powerful miners in August/September/October. IF they succeed, batch 3 will never make ROI. If they fail, batch 3 will make profit. People who requested refund think those other companies will succeed, people who stuck around think they will fail. Time will tell.

I think we are all being too optimistic on the other companies. They are going to martinfail out on their deadlines, realistically.

 Really the reason I chose a refund for Batch 3 was not because of ROI, but because... let's be real, and over-clocked Avalon running fans 100% (4000 rpm) near where I sleep was just about as close to psychological torture as I think I've experienced yet. On one hand, you don't want to turn off the machine because you're losing money, but on the other hand, it's like sleeping next to a jet engine, waking up covered in sweat.

Mining is a professional business.

I must confess the fanless design of one of the competitors product was a factor in my refund as well.

+1. Also, risk of fire when not attended, constant power drain, constant babysitting in case of issues, power outages, etc... It's not something I wanted to deal with. Of course, I may be just saying all this to validate my decision, but these are all factors that I considered when asking for a refund.

Woops... I just realized that the 'refund' I thought I had received from Bitsyncom was actually an unrelated bitcoin transfer (from a different source).  No refund action yet from Bitsyncom --- though... ahh... still not worried.  I am sure they have bigger concerns with dealing with trade-ins, batch3 and chips.  I imagine we will see some traction after those are sorted.  :)

Updating OP.

Lol, I've never slept so well in my life as when I had my avalon running in my bedroom. Now, I'm back to not sleeping a wink :(

I'm really surprised I'm the only reported refund. I wonder what could be going on over there. Maybe I was one of the first ones they did.

Not sure what either of those entities have to do with an Avalon refund--wrong thread? I original paid bitcoin through Bitpay. However it seems Bitpay was not involved in issuing the refund, so we assume they're processing them manually.

Last time I checked my status was "refunded." I suppose I can check again...

https://i.imgur.com/35W9mJX.png

Yep, wrong thread.

one refund per week is a very slow rate.

Just an update 32 days since my original refund request.

It will be interesting to see what they say in their next update.  So far there are a lot of disappointed groups that are going to be looking for information - refunds, tradeins and chip sales. 

Right now I see them prioritizing refunds near the bottom, as we have severed our relationship with them (well as customers - we still have a relationship as wanting our refunds).

This is my brief summary of the situation.

First of, Im deeply saddened to see Avalon degrade to near BFL standards - Yifu you had my respect but it is lost permanently now.

The issues:

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet. 

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

* Avalon claimed numerous delays, sabotage, yifu not getting enough beauty sleep and supply issues. 

Turned out many of the orders being delivered had a thick layer of dust in them while others had none. This indicates the dust filled machines have been running for some time (dust accumulates inside PC cases when fans are running). So the delays were also bullshit.

* More delays, piss poor communication and a touch of bitchiness from Yifu soured opinions and faith in Avalon to the current point.

* Avalon offered refunds for batch #3 clients (thanks for the interest free loan suckers).

But unfortunately it seems unless you filled in a specific google doc  not mentioned in any of the support requests clients have logged before an arbitrary deadline your refund will be refused.

Add 1 item for you:
Avalon stated that trade-in customers would be specially treated compare with batch#2 customers in April's newsletter.
Reality is, yes, they were treated specially, but, specially delayed than even batch#3 customers.

Not to mention the default Avalon mining software config has the following address as it's third load balancing pool:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW

https://i.imgur.com/G4891wb.png

This is my brief summary of the situation.

First of, Im deeply saddened to see Avalon degrade to near BFL standards - Yifu you had my respect but it is lost permanently now.

The issues:

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=257748.msg2777973#msg2777973) for further details.

* Avalon claimed numerous delays, sabotage, yifu not getting enough beauty sleep and supply issues.  

Turned out many of the orders being delivered had a thick layer of dust in them while others had none. This indicates the dust filled machines have been running for some time (dust accumulates inside PC cases when fans are running). So the delays were also bullshit.

* More delays, piss poor communication and a touch of bitchiness from Yifu soured opinions and faith in Avalon to the current point.

Surprise, Yifu's good will ran out so he turns into another BFL_Josh.

* Avalon offered refunds for batch #3 clients (thanks for the interest free loan suckers).

But unfortunately it seems unless you filled in a specific google doc  not mentioned in any of the support requests clients have logged before an arbitrary deadline your refund will be refused.

* Avalon stated that trade-in customers would be specially treated compare with batch#2 customers in April's newsletter.

Reality is, yes, they were treated specially, but, specially delayed more than even batch#3 customers.

To be fair:

My Batch #2 Avalon had three pools configured by default with FAILOVER configured.  The first two pools appeared to be the internal testnet pools.  The third pool was this eligius pool.

Based on the flat line from 2nd June - 10 July its not like "they ran these for a month". 

I don't understand any reason why they should throw away perfectly good hashes.  What is the objection if the test is on a live pool, especially if we can all see it?  We know that the machines work, and that a lot of them existed last weekend (10 days ago).

This has been discussed over and over again last year, you are competing with your existing and future customers, driving up difficulty and reducing their profit.

Now, if they would redistribute the BTC 780 they gained this way by donating it to a development project or faucet, I guess it would soften the blow, but the point is Yifu personally said they would not do it and they are not doing it and they will never mine with the equipment.

Obviously Yifu is in NY and has no influence of what his minions are doing in CN, and obviously he also has no idea what they are doing behind his back.

Or maybe he just pretends to be innocent.

Oh I still believe he is of good faith and will, it's just very hard to control your business if you are not 24/7 at the location overseeing operations.

You can only pull this off if you can delegate certain responsibilities to other capable people in your team but past behavior has shown he has issues with that ;-)

I understand a man's capability is limited.
But when he got millions of dollars money from his customer, he has the responsibility to dealing the business well. Not only because the money, but also the faith or trust his customers gave him.
Unfortunately, From the beginning, I did not see the willing of making business better. Instead of it, only silence and ignoring.

Get a white noise machine (http://www.amazon.com/Marpac-Dohm-DS-Speed-Sound-Conditioner/dp/B000KUHFGM).  It's perfect for people who sleep better with some background, wind-like noise.  That particular model (I own one) generates a hollow, wind blowing through a cave, sound.  Covers the mid to high frequency range pretty well. 

That said, in my personal situation, I have to go a step further since my goal is not sleep assistance, but noise cancelling.  I have a huge subwoofer playing a looping white noise track off an old iPod.  The subwoofer fills my entire apartment with a dull drone, blocking almost all "apartment living" noises.  Very effective.  But for you, if sleep is the concern, that puppy linked above should be enough to slay your sleep demons.

hello ProfMac,

lets put this simply - Yifu publically stated they would not mine on main net with clients hardware. 
Secondly, the hardware is not his nor does it belong to his company - the company was bankrolled by the early investors/ preorders - they have no right or expectation to get free hashes on clients machines.

This is a very simple point.

Put simpler, Yifu stated they would not mine, people invested with this in mind, turned out Yifu is a blatant liar.

Yes, it is a simple way to view the situation.

There is a story in Texas that a Ranger asked a man, in broken Spanish, if he had a horse.  The man said no, and the Ranger shot him dead as a liar and a criminal.  It turns out that the man was innocent and had answered truthfully.  There is still bad feeling along the border about this incident.  In Spanish, there are two words;  the analogy that carries into English is asking a man if he has a bull, and then shooting him because he has a cow and answered "no."

As to ownership, here are some choices: 
1.  The ownership is not defined until the machine passes QC, then it belongs to the assigned customer.  The customer gets a working machine no matter what manufacturing difficulties arise.  The quality variance is small, the time variance is high.
2.  The ownership is assigned early, perhaps as soon as the parts for one single board are identified.  The customer gets whatever is made, working or not.  The time variance is small, the quality variance is high.

No one can make the quality and the time variance both small.

What the community can do, however, is be so vocal and demanding that venture capitalists, who are risk adverse; and entrepreneurs, who do not know how long innovative things will take, both view the bitcoin arena as high risk.

Nice story, unfortunately it does not apply here.
Yifu insisted several times quite adamantly they did not use clients equipment to mine nor did they mine themselves. This is a blatant lie, there is no excusing it or explaining it as a misunderstanding. Further more he and his company were mining to the detriment of their investors, showing an absolute lack of respect for the very people that helped bank roll his company.

The stated they would not mine on main net, it has been proven without a doubt they do and continue to do so.

This is not a case of "did you mine ?, yes but with other hardware".
This is a case of "we mined using client/investor funded hardware before the client/investor had a chance of earning their ROI.

This is not a case of a language barrier.
where poor Yifu assumed that all the start up capital he was provided with was for him to piss away at his discretion and the greedy clients were asking for the moon when told they would get a working ASIC delivered in N Months.

Yifu has revealed himself to be someone who lies to anyone whenever it is convenient and as such no longer has the credibility to be trusted further. 

Lets compare apples to apples for a moment here.

Yifu while being good ar PR has been proven to be a a liar and depending on your view of things a thief. 

BFL_Josh An Angry, aggressive and outspoken individual who I believe has been conned into being the bigger fool for sonny. That being said, I have yet to catch Josh out in any blatant lies at worst he could be said to be an asshole who is blindly and fatally optimistic about his companies performance.

It truly saddens me, BFL had set the bar so low that I felt avalon could only go up - boy was I shocked when Yifu decided to 1 up BFL_Josh in douchebaggery.

cow --- to test equipment that has not been verified to work and has not been assigned an owner, for 24 hours under realistic conditions, then proceed to assign and ship it.
bull --- to run equipment that has passed QC and assigned to a customer for the sole purpose of gaining BTC.
moth --- to ship unreliable equipment that may catch fire.

^I'm not sure I follow that last post there, but have to agree with mem.
There is no confusion, Yifu lied (or has no control over his employees which is just as bad if you're running a business) about where he would mine to test the hardware.  Now he (well, technically Avalon) has both the initial payments (minus costs), plus the money mined with the equipment produced with those initial payments.

To be clear I have no problem with Yifu/Avalon making a profit, even a large one.  They were first to the market and deserve the spoils.  But the way customers have been treated is unacceptable, apparently there are still some Batch 1 Avalon's to be delivered (going from memory here so I could be wrong).  Assuming it's just a stock availability issue (again, could be wrong as I know there have been payment issues) delayed batch 1 customers should have received the first of the batch 2 units imo. Then depayed batch 2 customers get the first batch 3 units...

I'm also not sure how lying about whether you have a horse make you a criminal...  :-\

You buy a new product from an manufacturer. As long it's not declared as used, you can expect that the manufacturer only checks the product for functionality, short term QC Test of single components and the assembled product. For long time tests the manufacturer has to take a sample from an batch or a prototype, that sample has to be tested under hard conditions. This will prove if that product/the design and the manufacturing process fulfills the quality standards. This samples will not be sold to any customer, the manufacturer will keep it. The product the customer gets is new, it was checked for functionality, but not used . You will have warranty for this product from the manufacturer. That means even if "QC" is passed, and the product get broken related to an problem during manufacturing, the manufacturer has to replace the product.

But let's take a look how the world would look like if companies would do their "QC" like BitSyncom. Your new car would come with 3000 miles on the meter, but it's still new and just tested. That car was used to transport the employees of the manufacturer to work and back home, for what the company should invest in gasoline just for testing, it would be a wast of resource. Some cars come with 40000 miles on the meter, they were used for the long term "QC". The navigation system has still the route from the employees home to their factory in memory. Your new computer will now be shipped with World of Warcraft pre-installed. That computer was carefully tested. Therefore the manufacturer hired some guys to farm gold in MMORPG's for weeks. These manufacturers really care about you and the environment. They want to deliver a carefully tested product and use resources in an efficient way to protect the environment.

While we're on the topic of lying, they also stated trade-ins would be first, but those who did trade-ins have been waiting, most with over 3 months in lost Icarus mining revenue. (Approximately 3.5 BTC per device)

has anyone else received a Batch 3 refund except the one documented case above

which documented case? The only one I saw was somebody who received a transaction from
somebody else and confused it for a refund

The issues:

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=257748.msg2777973#msg2777973) for further details.

* Avalon claimed numerous delays, sabotage, yifu not getting enough beauty sleep and supply issues.  

Turned out many of the orders being delivered had a thick layer of dust in them while others had none. This indicates the dust filled machines have been running for some time (dust accumulates inside PC cases when fans are running). So the delays were also bullshit.

* More delays, piss poor communication and a touch of bitchiness from Yifu soured opinions and faith in Avalon to the current point.

Surprise, Yifu's good will ran out so he turns into another BFL_Josh.

* Avalon offered refunds for batch #3 clients (thanks for the interest free loan suckers).

But unfortunately it seems unless you filled in a specific google doc  not mentioned in any of the support requests clients have logged before an arbitrary deadline your refund will be refused.

* Avalon stated that trade-in customers would be specially treated compare with batch#2 customers in April's newsletter.

Reality is, yes, they were treated specially, but, specially delayed more than even batch#3 customers.

* Avalon also stated trade-ins would be first (citation needed)

But those who did trade-ins have been waiting, most with over 3 months in lost Icarus mining revenue. (Approximately 3.5 BTC per device)
[/quote]

Added the point about the icarus trade ins.

Anenome5. He attached screenshots of the transaction for proof. See earlier in this thread. So far, he's the only one who has received a refund. My assumption is that he got it so quickly because he happened to fill out the form RIGHT when Yifu sent out the newsletter. Yifu was probably still around/online, and therefore able to send it out quickly.

As always, pure speculation

Nah dude. That's a fresh receiving address I created for the refund, thus the label on it, that's been used with no one else and was public nowhere previously. It could not have been anyone but Bitsyncom. Nor was I expecting any other transactions. It was for the amount paid for a 4-unit in total. If random people are just sending out 101+BTC to non-public addresses that's news to me.

Edit: He must mean jspielberg who thought he got a partial refund but confused it with other traffic. That can't have been the case with me however.

Quite possibly. I read the email, contemplated the numbers, and decided to do it. I also had all the information quickly and easily available to me, finding it didn't take long. Still boggles me that I'm the only confirmed refund. I'm thinking they started doing refunds then got flooded with way more requests than expected and something 'came up' which demanded attention. Some communication from them on what's going on would be huge. Why can't these companies seriously spend 5 minutes at the end of the day to type up a 1 paragraph status update. I would do that daily if I were them.

Just want to point out for the sake of anyone trying to do a thread search that you've misspelled my pseudonym, two-N's, one M.

Yes, jspielberg is what I referred too.

It's very odd you got your refund in 4 installments.

Like they have to scrounge for coins from different wallets

Running low on BTC? :-)

It's not really that odd if you know how a bitcoin tx works, and if you look at the times it was actually done in two installments apparently. There was a 30 min time gap between first and the last ones, but the last three were simultaneous, meaning they came from a wallet that split into 3 payments because it was emptying sub-addresses and the like within an existing wallet, change, etc. Not that unusual at all. The 30 minute time gap after the first is a bit unusual perhaps. I don't know if it's very likely that that would happen automatically from a single transaction.

Also they could've just bought the bitcoin on an exchange, coming from multiple sellers essentially, and sent it to me from there, dunno.

Is it worth considering a Class action against Bitsyncom in the USA ? It would be fucking awesome to convict Yuffie of several accounts of fraud.   ;D

Anenome5 - I have updated your handle in the OP.

Buying from the exchanges is an interesting thought.  There has been some upward pricing pressure lately.  I would guess they have between 2,000 to 5,000 BTC to refund.

It has been just under a month since I submitted a refund request via their ticketing system (I also used the google docs form). No updates on the ticket and my order is still "refund processing".

I hope they finish processing it soon, I've got plans for those bitcoins.

Don't we all... Actually I need the btc price to go a little higher first, but timely refunds would  still be appreciated.

There is no cake.

I also had plans for those BTC... which are a whopping $7,000 today. C'mon Yifu, we gotta eat bro!

THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!

_{Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test.}

I think I'm going to need both of those if I have to keep waiting for my refund...

Bump. Yifu, please send my refund thanks. This is a lot of money for me and most people and we would like you to make good on your promise.

It seems like Refunds are the lowest priority for Bitsyncom, when the majority of Batch 3 finishes shipping until there are only a few stragglers left such as from Batch 1 and Batch 2, the refunds will be processed.

IMO thats correct behaviour. You will get your refund eventually. Batch #3 shipping is time sensitive.

I disagree. It would take a trivial amount of time to process refunds.

Ehh, and refunds aren't time sensitive? They are holding tens of thousands of dollars of ours. Who are you to tell us that our money is less important than your money-generating machine?

I agree, and I am even in the refund queue!

That being said, there should not be any technical difficulties with sending out refunds.  Its not like they need test a new SMT refund machine, or manually process 100s of broken walletbit orders.  It isn't like Yifu is personally assembling the Avalon batch and putting quality control stickers on the boxes.

So... while I see the shipping of actual product with customers, who are still interested in your product, taking priority -  it is hard to see what the actual hold up is on refunds other than being a low priority.

Like lower than reading the news.
That goes for regular updates as well.

Just my thoughts.

I didnt mean that my money is more important. I wish all refunds was already processed or processed at same time as #3 shipping. But as you already know its not working like that in Avalon.
Your money doesnt "melt" with each delay day unlike "money-generating machine".

For the record I already have #3 Avalon.

It might if you were planning on using the money for a KnC pre-order.

Not exactly！If the refund can proceed earlier, the owner can use it to do other investment. And refund is not complicated as building and shipping a machine. Why they can not do parallel?

That money could have been used to invest in a myriad of different things, instead it is sitting in Avalon's pocket as a 0% loan.

What about if I got my refund a month ago and put it into a simple stock with 5% return? Lost.
Fuck, I could have bought AM shares at ~4 and made at least 15 BTC on them.

Yufi/BitSyncom seriously what is going on here?

At this point that would make the most sense.

Its coming... "A watched pot... yada yada yada".

Can someone contact Yifu?
Via phone, or maybe someone knows another way of doing it.

Because this is becoming hilarious, and frightening at the same time...
He's been absent for two weeks know.

By this time he promised to:
1-st, process the refunds.
2-nd, send out batch 3.
3-rd, process trade-ins.

What has been done? NOTHING.

4-th, deliver the chips

Wrong
Some of the chips are on the way or delivered already

wrong. only one small batch is delivered.

Yifu .. any update on refunds would be most welcome and appreciated..

+1

oh come on, its been nearly a month since someone woke up poor yifu in the middle of the night concerned about the pre-order money he is treating as a personal piggy bank.

/s

Bumping.. still no refund received. I assume this is the case with everyone.

Confirmed no refund yet; patiently waiting

Well, I'm really curious what the story is going to turn out to be. This is making me look bad; I promise -I- did receive a refund. Can't imagine why they didn't go on to finish your guys' and yet processed mine :|

You were the testrun... and maybe the example to show that refunds will be done.

God, maybe. Just pure luck, maybe I was the first to apply. I feel bad for you guys.

Could be that you are a writer and good with words. Lack of negativity in your posts may have something to do with it as well. Could have just been a good way to get the positive word out. Maybe your name in the list came first alphabetically. In any sense it is unfortunate this whole refund process is turning out this way. I have marked them off as lost coins until there is a class action lawsuit started, then I will gladly jump on board. But yet again unfortunately do to the fashion in which Bitcoin works and its status as an almost but not really recognized virtual currency would make any court battle a nightmare(in the United States). I was a proponent for Bitcoin in the past, but now after feeling the burn on this one, its hard to want to stay in the game. Of course something like this could happen with anything you invest any sort of capital into. Everything's a wild card in the end, just have to hope you have the best one in the deck.

It would be really nice if Yifu finished the refunds before the BTC price starts to move. It was like $75 when I requested my refund.

I feel marginally better because, according to his profile, he was on the boards yesterday. He wasn't on for long and didn't post anything, which leads me to believe that he has no answers for us, or that he only has answers which we will not like (such as delays and excuses).

Here is a more extensive version of the story. (http://heartoftexasblog.com/2013/06/28/the-ballad-of-gregorio-cortez/)

If only Yifu spoke english we wouldn't have these needless communications errors...

.... wait a second!!!

Yeah... a lot of heart ache and ill feelings could easily be handled by some kind of communication with all the groups currently having concerns:
Avalon B3 units without PSUs
Chip orders
FPGA Trade-ins
Refunds

That being said, I can understand refunds being at the bottom from a priority standpoint.  I just don't understand from a complexity stand point.  There is clearly stuff that we are not privy to as to why refunds are complicated and difficult.  We just don't know it, so people assume the worst.

Frankly I think Yifu is doing his best. But he is only one guy.  There comes a point where you need to delegate and pass some responsibilities onto others.  It is natural normal and how companies grow.  I hope Bitsyncom doesn't wither on the vine by the lack of manpower to push through seemingly simple administrative tasks.

Bitsyncom has great people and great technology... but I think the desire to not ask for help may ultimately prevent it from flourishing.  There is only so much 4 or 5 great people can do.

From an integrity stand point. Refunds when requested should be settled ASAP. If you're the one offering them because you have delayed people, you have no right to deny them from investing elsewhere.

Very much this!

Ok, technicians doesnt have to be great business man. But i await a grain of logic. Im not sure how he plans to prosper when he sees the rising anger that mostly is a result of missing communication, that again is a result of "I want to do all alone" and so on. Im not sure what his reason is not to hire someone. Maybe he dont trust others (maybe they steal bitcoins) or he fears the new employee wants the same rights and income like the existing ones. But i cant believe he dont see what damage he does to his company, its reputation and his customers by all the missed working hours that lead to problems in all fields.

Avalon shipped a lot of units, and they have a lot of happy customers.  On some orders things didn't work out - but the outrage, calling them BFL like, scammers, etc is way overstated. Most people got their hardware. B2 will probably pay for itself, I'm not sure about B3, but I guess we'll see.

As far as chips go, I'm sure people with downstream customers and investors are upset, but they're only a few weeks late so far.

The real competitive risk is the competition at that feature size and smaller from guys like Labcoin, KnC, HashFast, etc.

I am going to commit a small faux-pas and quote myself...


I think we have an explanation for why Yifu has been MIA:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg2851242#msg2851242

He has been with all the other BTC entrepreneurs in NYC at the Inside Bitcoin Conference.

Hopefully now that is over, we will see some updates.

I didnt say that Avalon is like BFL, i bought with avalon in the first place because i thought they are different. The only thing i mentioned was that bfl wanted to deliver the chips in 100days while avalon wanted in 9-10 weeks. I claimed that these more weeks are a reason to not buy with bfl. No see what it turns out.


A pity no one was pressuring and asking him out there. The good thing would have been that he could have been contacted there.

I'm really trying to relax here, but it really irks me that it's been over 3 weeks and we don't have our money yet. This isn't a $20 purchase we're talking about. This is thousands of dollars.

But what can I do, except complain to my comrades, who are also waiting for refunds...

I think I will go buy 40 oz. of something...

Let's hope we see our refunds soon after B3 finishes shipping.

Yifu , please brutha give us an update on the B3 refunds... some of us actually really need our money back.... $8,000 is enough to make a SERIOUS impact on pretty much anybody's life.

For what it is worth... while Bitsyncom has a lot of drama surrounding their deliveries... They do deliver.

Have a good weekend gents!

My refund request submitted by support ticket has been Ignored (Was sent over 4 weeks ago)

Received DHL Shipping info this morning.

GG.......... *sigh*

Well, the're selling for ~100BTC in the goods section, so you may still make a profit.

If you didn't fill out the support ticket in google docs from the newsletter that was sent out. You were not put on the list for the refund. But at this rate an ASIC will make back the bitcoins faster than anything getting refunded. So you are probably in a better position now.

My friends refund ticket was ignored they shipped the unit anyway.
He was to stupid to read the newsletter properly and apparently Avalon's support tickets are useless.



No, infact it is not overstated.

Yifu has been caught out in blatant lies to investors, there is no excusing or rewording it.
They stated they would not mine with clients equipment.
They have been proven to mine with said equipment, regardless of the amount this statement is now a lie.
The delays also appear to be fake / greatly exaggerated.

let me summarize the flawed logic we have here:

* Black can actually be white if you close your eyes.

They are probably trying to mine with the newly built units to cover the refunds...

if (pissed off) then (begin vent)

What refunds?  If you submitted a support ticket (as you were told to by bitsyncom HIMSELF here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236348.msg2515773#msg2515773) then your refund gets ignored.
If you managed to get the newsletter and see the Google Docs link (Google Docs, really fucking professional guys) then you had 3 days to apply for said refund. 3 days. Even if you already asked for a refund through the fucking AVALON SUPPORT SITE.
Not to mention it's been several weeks and I think only one person has received their refund.
I know a lot of people got in, but a lot missed out too.  Avalon has generally been a bit of a clusterfuck lately. This is no way to treat your customers.

if (still fucking pissed off) loop
else
end vent

Does anyone with a more level head then me know if there is any legal recourse?  If the items were sold in the country I live in then the BS Avalon T&C's would be declared null by a court as they're against the law here. However internationally this becomes a bit of a grey area.

(Not mining) started again. 5.3TH/s right now.

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW (http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW)

Didnt someone state that he used the google docs refund form after the advertised timeframe and it still worked? I would try unless there is no tracking code yet.

That would be me. I did it 1 day late, and my status still changed to refund processing.

I have been looking into some things that can be done legally. It also is a fact in the US that the T&C's are null due to some consumer protection in the USA according to my lawyer.

Good to hear.  Thanks

Why you´re refunding - I have been waiting for B3 three months and finally got DHL tracking numbers... maybe those Avalons will generate their price or no but at least I will learn and now I have KNC machines in order. Will they deliver in time or three months late? I hope no late, but lets´see. btc is just waiting and patience!

Its an expensive toy only to learn mining hardware. Check out this website and let it calculate the bitcoin income instead usd: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
If you think that at the time you get your miner you will be able to earn the spent bitcoins back in then youre fine. But i think that wont happen anymore.

Buy a USB Eruptor to practice on then >_>

+1

bump for B3 refunds

Still not a single refund from Avalon.

I is very sad.

This is crazy stupid.

Is it so difficult to process a refund?

Yifu will have to spend only a few hours...
And we are waiting almost a month for it.

Maybe he is "punishing" those who requested a refund. "No refunds till the last Batch #3 is shipped", or something like that.

Thats stupid... for what is he punishing us?
For not being dumb?
For giving him a free millions of dollars loan?

Maybe he should punish him self, for making a fortune, out of others people money...?

If we would've decided to keep batch 3 avalon.. there would've been only one thing to do: pray and hope, that you will receive atleast 70% out of the bitcoins you spend.
There will be no ROI, not even close to it.

Well, me, but it would be hard to blame anyone for seriously doubting me at this point :\
I think I may have been the test case.

Ah yes, our refund thread goes off the front page again.
I keep bumping in the rare scenario that Yifu shows up. Need to at least remind him that we're all very pissed about not receiving our refunds.

I need my bitcoons, Yifu. What will I do without my bitcoons, damnit!

You should only get your refund by the time the regular users get their break even point, so in a few months.

Why should you get your refund up front? Queue with the rest of us...

Then why even offer a refund?

Because there's actually something we're waiting for... other than someone to sit down and spend some time refunding people?  Nothing to build or anything... not that hard.

That makes no sense. A refund has no prerequisite on the rest of you that decided to not get a refund for breaking even. If you're mad about that, say so, but there's no reason to punish those that decided to get a refund (also a hint, you'll never break even). We should get our Bitcoins. What's the holdup? Yifu isn't personally assembling Avalons, he can process refunds. Let's say 50% of everyone took refunds, that's up to 300 customers to refund (actually less, assuming each customer ordered only one Avalon). Assuming for whatever weird reason, each refund took him a half hour (to properly research it or whatever, if their store was decent it and he didn't allow himself to be overwhelmed with ignored tickets it wouldn't take this long). That's 16 refunds per eight hour day and he'd be done in less than 20 days. Though, maybe he'll get tired half way through and decide to take a month break... sounds about right, we're just the whiny customers who don't deserve anything.

Yifu, where is our refunds? You should understand now that many of us will never consider buying from you again because of how you've treated us.

I think that ship has sailed, given the chip situation.

Yeah... if you think the refund situation is bad look at people hurting for chips. People are getting really angry about that. Hard to blame them because people've spent $14 million on Ava chips and in 30 days it's not likely those devices will make ROI. Entire businesses and livelihoods are going down the drain with each day of delay, nothing but a sea of red ink across the bitcoin world :\ And Bitsyncom will have profited on it all.

What's more, no one's heard from Yifu for a month. Speculation that something internal may have occurred. A company split. Family situation. Internal strife.

Mystery of mysteries.

Whatever the case, Avalon has burned just about all of its credibility at this point.

LOL! This logic does not even warrant a response of a milliBitcoon.

Well, gentlemen, we know Yifu is alive.

Now LET'S GET SOME REFUNDS!  :o

These better get addressed today. It's been almost a month since we were told we'd be getting refunds.

We need our bitcoons, that much is evident...... it's been far too long to wait.

the sendmany() command could have taken care of all this and everyone would have their bitcoons back almost instantly...

Yup... Let's see what explanation there is for this.

Bitch and moan all you want, you'll just end up the Anti76 of Batch #3

Again, not even going to expend a milliBitcoon responding to this.

+1. Don't feed the troll and so forth.

Avalon 8/9/2013 news: http://avalon-asics.com

Well guys, looks like we won't be getting our refunds until batch 3 is all out. Although, according to the newsletter, Batch 3 has completely left their hands, so we should be getting refunds soon...?

This is what happens when children are allowed to be at the helm of a company, such a complete fuckup that avalon should refund people immediately and ship chips immediately.

Its not our fault they are getting blackmailed, if they stuck to their word then maybe they wouldnt have any problems like that lol

Thats something i wonder too. When the miners left their hand... what did yifu the last hours?

I have email from July 11.  Is there something newer?

When I say newsletter, I refer to the website post he put up today.

This one here: http://avalon-asics.com

LOL.  The - sign goes to another page.  I didn't recognize that before.

Just be grateful you're getting your refund.  Me (and 2 of my mates, we split the costs) all missed the link to the Google Docs spreadsheet until it was too late (we did request a refund through the official support site promptly though) and now we are the disappointed owners of a Batch 3 Avalon that will likely only generate about 60% of its cost at the current network hash rate increases :(

Only one person received a refund. With recent events, I don't know if it's safe to say we'll receive one.

Check it out, guys. It's our refunds being generated. :P
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW (http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW)

Disclaimer: pure speculation

Trade-in machines being tested?

I think many people think there's no need to speculate there.

Yifu any input on when the refunds might be processed? Would be very helpful for managing expectations

Bump for our friend Yifu :)

Friend? He took your money for 6 months, fucked you over, failed to deliver.. and your calling him a friend?? o_O

wtf.

Not to mention didn't acknowledge many refund requests.. so now people like me who actually received the avalon won't even make ROI with new difficulty...

Agreed

I think he was using sarcasm when he said "our friend."  ;)

I am the new English expert of the Custom Hardware sub forum.

/sarcasm  ;D

Sorry will include appropriate tonality tags in the future ;)

Hi Yifu,


I still not recieved 5 Avalon Units from Avalon batch 2
paid 75 btc for each

i have no information about delivery, about track number or even a response from you !


I created a lot of tickets ( last one #1410)
and write a letter to your e-mail


Can you help with that ?
Can i hope for refund ?



Best regards
Alexey

Yifu it would be wise to offer some guidance on refund ETA. The price run makes us all uneasy.

Any news?

lemonte managed to get a hold of Yifu over the phone yesterday, but he didn't ask about refunds. No news regarding ETA, but Yifu did say people should be receiving chips in the next few weeks. At least there's company activity.

If anyone wants to try and call him and ask about ETA, go ahead. I don't think it will make a difference in terms of actually getting him to process the refunds sooner, though.

It is like simulated mining.... you still get to wonder if you are going to break even but you don't have to pay for power.  :-\

bump for refunds

+1

Yifu, the store status has been updated to "Refund Processing" on our orders since July 17.

Aug 9 you said "The refunds will shortly follow"

Can you elaborate when these refunds will be processed?

Thanks

Yifu, you don't have to give us a date. We are well aware of how "close to the machine" we're living here, and we know you have trouble making accurate estimates as to how long things are going to take. But a series of milestones would be most appreciated, as would communication as we near and pass each one. Opening up a little about the decisions you're making would be very helpful, and would help you keep the goodwill of both your current customers and your potential customers. It would be a very profitable way to spend your time. But if you can't spare the time, then delegate it to someone capable who can.

You have 101 of my BTC, and I miss each and every one of them. The longer you hold off, the less likely I am to spend any of it on your future offerings.

Don't do that. Take them to court. $38k+ is definitely worth legal action. Add in the potential revenues you've lost because of them and you're looking at a very hefty sum. Sue them, and then maybe they'll notice you.

EDIT:
And who knows? Maybe it'll be more profitable than mining would have been.

But more than that, I think it'll be good for the Bitcoin ecosystem as a whole. It'll show that customer service fucking matters, and that we won't put up with this sort of crap. Don't just sue them for your $38k plus lost revenue, sue them for all of us who are pissed off at companies getting away with this kind of behavior.

+1 +1 +1!!!!!
YEP!!
My security on LTC GLOBAL 'Triple B Mining' is suffering immensely from a non delivery and no action or reaction... I'm thinking of going to interpol. @alexkkk PM me and we can co-ordinate an approach to Avalon as a group. I have 500 BONDS issued on this asset and all its profitability is almost gone. I received a second hand pre-mined unit for my batch 2 order and NO batch 3 order delivered. In fact my order says it's on-hold. WTF???

If anyone has any evidence of their dishonesty please start networking and collating it... this can't be left to them to get away with... My business and my life has deteriorated to a place of ill health over this, I've got angry investors breathing down my throat and i've had to now buy a third order second hand as it arrived from batch #3 just to make good on my contract and promises to my constituents, so $16K down and only $5k back from the batch 2 which 40% was paid out as divs and the rest went back into the third machine... I've been propping up this security since October 2012 awaiting the Av's to drop and make good but with the delay which i'm a firm believer was staged and timed on purpose to keep us all just on the edge of ROI but not quite so they can bury us in Retail ASIC and own us for life while laughing all the way to the BTC Bank.

A-Holes .... Amazing holes in their story.... Phuk Dem Wii Prosokute!!!!

Loufie GM of Triple B Mining

I wonder if they are hoping everyone forgets about requesting a refund.  Almost a month has passed now.  This is retarded.  Nothing more can be said.

Maybe they are waiting for the store to re-open with their Gen2 products hoping we will spend our refund there.  ::)

I thought I got screwed with BFL  :o

Best of Luck to you guys!!!  :'(

Maybe I am a fool, but i am still holding out hope that Yifu will deliver on his refund promise once the "other stuff on his plate" is handled.  I seems like he has become a one man band.

Avalon has no face. They are a disgrace to this community and have lost all trust, dignity, status, and pride.
I recommend any customer having a problem keep calm and act friendly towards them until you get your goods/refund.
Once in hand explain how you really feel about their actions. Thankfully i did not order from them as they struck me as unreliable and arrogant. I was close though.
People have already tried pulling them aside and being kind that it may not be all their fault and how they might fix it but that has failed to work. Calls and emails go unanswered.

So enjoy the money avalon. I am hoping the community has enough sense to put you in the past and move on. You are the poster child of bitcoin greed and failure.

Any news?

bump for refunds

Yifu any chance of an update? Por favor señor, it would help to manage our expectations to have even a slight idea of when to expect a refund.

Anyone want to take a bet that the refunds appear when the store re-opens for Gen 2 products?

Well that would be a running kick in the balls...

If it turned out to be store credit that would definitely and insult to injury.... literally.

Bumping for refunds... Fingers still crossed a whole month later...

I hate seeing this thread as it gets my hopes up for nothing, seeing "avalon" and "refund" in the same sentence :(

Yifu.... Give us our refunds!

Emphasis mine; looks like good news!

Well, that update was made some hours ago and no one reported yet a refund, so let me doubt about "refunds are being processed". Maybe they forgot the word "soon" at the end of the sentence.

no refund here.

Bitcoin has become just a bunch of sad stories of greed and scamming. Don't know how anyone in their right mind would spend a penny on custom hardware these days. I guess my initial feeling about them became true after batch #1.

has anyone gotten their refund yet?

If the OP hasn't been updated... then no.

That is correct.  I have heard of no new reports of refunds being issued other than the one listed in the first post.

Not a single refund yet. Bitsyncom, care to explain what is going on?

Are there news of the backbuy of old miners? He listed that task before the refunds so maybe he works on that?

The latest news can be seen at http://www.avalon-asics.com/

Most folks seem unsatisfied with this update though chip orders are starting to get shipped out slowly (Zefir's batch 2 now has a tracking number).
He mentions only that trade-ins and refunds are "being processed".  Frankly I think that is code for ... "we have done one of each so we can say we did something on this task to keep the wolves at bay".

The wolves are baying.

It's simple really: Bitsyncom does not have sufficient funds available to provide the refund at this time.

What other possible explanation could there be? (I'm all ears)

If this is true, the only ones who will ever see their money back (even if it is less than 100% ROI) are the ones who took delivery.

Potentially he has no control over the wallet, as he suggested, and refuses to pay for refunds out of his own accumulated funds.

One chip batch alone would make him able to refund 7 batch 3 miners with all 4 modules. And he sold a lot batches. So i really doubt he is short on bitcoins.

No, but if someone else was pulling the purse strings would you want to pay out of your own pocket?

I mean this is what it has to come down to, there's no other excuse for making people wait this long, unless you're a total [apply imagination].

Something severely amiss, and no one is being forthcoming, purposefully...

I got a pm from xiangfu asking me for my tx id and my order #, in order to help expedite the process. I hope this helps. I could really use my coins back.

Thank you for posting.

Good news then, always welcome to see! ;)

Welcome news btcsql.

I am looking forward to putting your refund notice on the OP.

Well, cynical as it sounds, perhaps they decided to let you refunders get first crack at their gen-2, maybe they're going to offer you to simply transfer your BTC over. What better way to both make it up to you (they may think) and also make it easy for you, by keeping the BTC you've already given them?

Just a theory.

Strange the request came from xiangfu and not yifu.

I would think yifu would be needed to authorize all the refunds (1000s of btc involved).

Why do they need your order # and tx id again? Did you not fill out the Google form last month?

"refunds are being processed" (Avalon statement on August, 19th)

Not a single refund reported.

What a bad joke.

Not sure to be honest, I did fill out the google form.

I know I filled it out twice (thinking it would update the same row in their Google spreadsheet).
First time I just used the txid since there wasn't enough time to get the bitpay url.
Once I got my bitpay uri I "updated" my request with the new info, even though it was after the imposed deadline of 3 days.

Day 56, no refunds in sight.

I happened to have emailed myself the bitpay URL, I'm not really sure how you would go back and find that otherwise necessarily (maybe have an account with bitpay?).

Did anyone else not fill in the Bitpay URL?

I had to make a support case with Bitpay... but after 4 or 5 days, they were able to get my invoice url.  As stated this was after the deadline, but since it seemed like they were running late with refund processing I figured it would be okay to update the with the new information.

still nothing :(

Yifu, how much more should it take to process our refund?
You are making people waiting for more than a month, for a refund that will take 1 hour of your busy life.

Do you understand, that some people rely on this money?
No one knew that you will shit on your customers, and make them wait for a lifetime...

For instance my friend is waiting for a refund, because he should pay for his medical treatment.
Do you understand, that there could be different circumstances for each person that made an order?
that someone's life may be in danger because of your stupid behavior...

And if someone's gonna get hurt, karma will get your ass, and no money will be able to save you.


I still hope, that there's some humanity left in you, and you will process our refunds in a few days.

bump for refundz

Bump again :( Yifu please respond and let us know the status of our refunds... it's been a long time now and it's a lot of money for us to be waiting and wishing on.

 ??? ??? ???

I think he is still planning on delivering promised refunds (call me an optimist).
I think he is not processing refunds in a very calculated way.

By not being proactive on delivering refunds he is discouraging other customers from requesting refunds.

Chip buyers would rather have late chips than a promise of a refund that doesn't deliver.  At least you can minimize your losses with chips.
With no refund, you have that... nothing.

My assumption then (based on the first line)... is that refunds won't be processed in a significant way until the majority of the latest chip orders have been shipped.

Or maybe he just ran away with everyone's money and is now in hiding. Just maybe.

Now where did I put that phone number for the local Chinese Mafia....hmm...........lost it!!!  :D

I'm remaining optimistic about the refunds also. I will be much happier when it turns up though.

Unfortunately I think your logic is spot on. I do think Yifu is a good guy and would not have the capacity to not make good on his business dealings, but you raise the point that if all of a sudden Avalon starts issuing refunds for B3, the chip buyers are going to start making demands as well.

Either way, going forward it's clear that a large majority of the supply of hash rate will emanate from a few key players (think ASICMiner/Giga/Lab/IceDrill/etc), and there will be less hobbyists running heat swamps in their homes. The USB-ASIC miners dating the Radeons are a huge boon for people who want to support the network cheaply, without any grandiose ideas of making a lot of money. Lady luck has been known to struck.

Anyways, I will be relieved when the refund is finally processed.

Same here.

It looks like everyone is waiting on chip deliveries.... even the batch 3 miner refunders strangely enough.

Hopefully we will see an update from Yifu as to progress (since we are being optimistic and all)  ;D

I stopped visiting this board daily. It has done a lot for my patience.
I just assume "When it comes, it comes"... I do think Yifu will send the refunds ultimately, but who knows when.
I'm going to keep checking back once a week or so until then. Checking this place daily just makes me too anxious and annoyed, especially with the all the bullshit and speculation flying around all over the place.

Makes no difference to chip buyers as he's already agreed to refund batch 3.

Sorry I no longer think Yifu is a good guy.

We've seen him promise refunds to be imminent, twice in the past two months.

We've seen photos of millions of Avalon chips ready and in Bitsyncom's possession, coupled with the tracking I'd that can be checked through an official site proving they were in receipt two months ago.

We've heard voices of discontent from former Bitsyncom members stating the chips have been ready since June, they split due to moral differences and Yifu is running around looking for private finance.

We've seen bulk chips available for real on the black market from some time July onwards.

We've seen silence from Yifu.

We've seen a shady PR move published in the Wall Street Journal backfire horrifically.

We've seen group buy bulk chip purchasers want legal action.

We've finally then had a flakey BS response from Yifu.

Still hardly any chips.

Still a wall of silence.

Still promises to refund.

But an acknowledgement he's in bed with private equity, that may well have a hand in chip delays.

Still no sign Yifu is in real control of anything as claimed other than the ability to ship sample chips.

We've seen movement finally in the group buy chip wallets, but not in the right direction.

The silence is a total unwillingness to be straight and honest, and avoid all responsibility to tell the truth.

Agreed...
over 20 tickets to Avalon
over 20 tickets to BITPAY
over 20 PM's and
OVER 20 msgs left on his cell number...
what response did I get...
yep ...
NONE!!!

This company is crap. Shame good solid box upgrade able and does what it says it does well... shame and a huge waste of talent and time... Triple B Mining is still kicking though and we have bigger and better stuff in the pipeline.
I ended up having to buy a 2nd hand batch three at cost to cover my contract... and no refund in sight...
No honor Yifu... None.

GM of Triple B Mining

can refunds keep up with the BTC price? I sure hope so.

still only one person got refund?

Avalon update on August, 19th: "refunds are being processed"

Reality on August, 27th: no refund has been reported in here.

So, Avalon is either lying or the people is getting refunds and are not reporting back. Or maybe Avalon's english is so lousy they forget to add "soon" at the end of the sentence.

Pretty outrageous stuff nevertheless.

only one person refunded thus far.

Looks like the chips are actually starting to move out.

Remaining guardedly less pessimistic that this action is trending towards actual refund processing.

Good news everyone, apparently we all got our refunds!

Yeah... I wish. =\

Update:  store status went to completed!

Will check block chain for more info.  Looks promising!

Got my refund! Thanks Yifu.

He posted this in another refund-related thread:

Confirmed by block chain.   Refund already has one confirmation.  Phew... That is a relief..

completely my fault there. I would visit forum more to see problems, but the noise...

Well, we were starting to get worried.  Thanks for taking care of this.

Thank you for taking care of this. I can imagine it's not easy to sign into this board for you--however you tying things up means a lot to everyone.

Still no refund. Store status is still "refund processing." Now there is a glimmer of hope... but I don't want to be left out.

Still processing for me as well, hopefully they'll see my ticket and send my coins to the right address instead of the bitpay address I accidentally supplied on the google doc form   :'(

One refund received; one outstanding.

Is there an input address?  I am sure we would all like to look at it.

https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN

Looks like the/a cold wallet may be here: 100,000+ BTC
https://blockchain.info/address/158mVoizfU3xPxGGchGtnsKSixGs9XTo6v

Refund received, I am ecstatic as I thought I'd never see this money again. It's like finding $9000 in change your couch cushions. Thank you yifu.

It's associated with the chip order money, and ALSO with a major mining farm.

Doesn't that seem suspicious to you Ytterbium?

Seems strange that the account would have mining revenue and chip orders together.
Seems like more evidence that there was some significant mining going on as well as "retail" miner sales.

still waiting, order #6125 ...

spiccioli

NO REFUND RECEIVED

Still "refund processing" on my Avalon store account.

And of course nobody leaves you voicemails or opens tickets at the support site?

Blaming the failed refunds on a scripting error is like stating the dog ate your homework...

Still also waiting for my refund. Order 8966... Maybe the script ran out of coins? *shrugs*

I mean, realistically 1000 coins may only be enough to refund 10-15 people, no?

And indeed, the input address is only showing 10 outgoing transactions. Must have run out of coins. Oh well, I can wait a bit longer, I'm just happy Yifu realized there was a problem and is now aware of it/ can continue to monitor etc.

It's not suspicious - it's a smoking gun. There was some discussion about it - people showed that the accounts were associated, but it was only because money was flowing from the chip sales, there wasn't any money flowing out of Avalon that we knew of.    Now we do have proof that Avalon controls those addresses.

So clearly they control that address and are mining for themselves.  And by the way - they made so much money they didn't even need to spend a satoshi of the money that came in from chip sales! 

Anyway, they have a lot of money, I think the right thing to do would be to pay back the refunds with extra interest on top for the delay. People sitting around waiting for their B3 refunds lost out on lots of opportunities (labcoin IPO, KnC pre-orders, etc)

How many people get refunds today, in this thread?
3 or 4?

So far, mik3, jspielberg, and btcsql

4 refunds - if you include Anenome5 who put in his refund request before the google form was available.

The txn ids of the refunds looks like they only did nine or so this round.

WTF.... go to hell you idiot! ...now the "noise" is the reason for your fraud on the community & your stupidness finally to hide it.

Selective shipping and now selective refunds? Cool I wonder what's next lol.

My guess is the next refund is over the remaining 144 BTC in that address (probably multiple units), so the script halted.

Today i found that i got a refund for my batch 3 miner too finally... :) Hope the other get it soon too.

Congrats.  Were you part of the same block chain txn in the OP?

No refund for me yet, order #44xx  :-\

Hot wallet balance rised https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN. Refunds in progress!

GOT MY REFUND!!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOO

The refund was sent to the wrong address that I specified on the google doc form. I will now be contacting bitpay and attempting to get it back from them since it was sent to one of their wallets.

Looking at the inputs, it looks like they're processing refunds using chip sale proceeds.

fill this thread Who get refund (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283662.0)

Yes. But when i watch this address i see refunds are moving at the moment.

got refund https://blockchain.info/ru/tx/a499606b6c8b191f28b17bd089a29c98f6d35da951da88c2f2b7652f96d0b912

so all the refunds went out, aside from 2 orders which bugged out for whatever reason, and is looking into it now, those are 6997 and 6817.

How about B3 partial refunds ? Because of all those delays we are not even close to ROI.
Anyway thanks for update - it should be like that from the beggining.

Thanks for the update Yifu.

If you had timely updates like this... there probably would have been less bitching/animosity... not a whole lot less... but definitely less.

Got my B3 refund, thanks Yifu.

Refund received! I feel a lot less stressed now.

I got mine, thanks Yifu for keeping your word.

spiccioli

Are there Batch #3 units in stock that can be sold at auction?

Yifu, please check your pm. I received a refund to the address I specified, but that was actually Bitpay's address that I paid to as opposed to paid from. I talked to bitpay and all they need to push the refund they received from you to me is a request from you. I have sent you the invoice for the order that they passed on to me and you can check support ticket #1347 for confirmation of what I've just said. I will gladly provide any other evidence you may require.

As this shouldn't require more work than a one or two line email, I hope that this can be resolved quickly. Thanks in advance!

How about B3 partial refunds ? Because of all those delays we are not even close to ROI. And you stated to calculate the B3 price with a 3 months ROI. (yet you had 3months delay/issues and we  got a little bit screwed)

Maybe a 30-50% Refund would make much of us happy. Ya sorry, most of your customers arent rich.. and it hurts them.

Even if there were some avail I'm sure some fool would bid it up over ROI :/

Yup putting your head into the sand saying la la la la la makes everything better.

Yifu is the one who is greedy not us. :( >:( So a partial refund for the Maschines he mined with won't ever happen...
I wonder what would happen if he showed up to Bitcoin Conference next time.

It seems all the refunds come from the same address (https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN), that would be less than 70 Avalon were refunded. Does this mean that the immense majority of people kept their machine? And wow, if you follow the different address you will see hundreds of k's of BTC going through some of those addresses. That's tens of millions of $... Avalon, you did good indeed....

Refund received. I can now breathe a bit easier. :-)