Avalon Store Batch 3 Status just went to "Refund Processing" - now "Completed"

[ProfMac]

Anyone get a full refund yet?

Did your status on the store go to "refunded"?

I did. And yes.

Through IAFCU, or bitfloor directly?

Not sure what either of those entities have to do with an Avalon refund--wrong thread? I original paid bitcoin through Bitpay. However it seems Bitpay was not involved in issuing the refund, so we assume they're processing them manually.

Yep, wrong thread.

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[cmdbill]

one refund per week is a very slow rate.

[cmdbill]

Just an update 32 days since my original refund request.

[jspielberg]

It will be interesting to see what they say in their next update.  So far there are a lot of disappointed groups that are going to be looking for information - refunds, tradeins and chip sales. 

Right now I see them prioritizing refunds near the bottom, as we have severed our relationship with them (well as customers - we still have a relationship as wanting our refunds).

[mem]

I've been out of the loop for a bit on bitcoin talk and Avalon over the last 3 or 4 months.  Why are people getting refunded on their batch 3's?  Is Avalon forcing them to take refunds, or are people looking for a refund on their own, and if so why?

This is my brief summary of the situation.

First of, Im deeply saddened to see Avalon degrade to near BFL standards - Yifu you had my respect but it is lost permanently now.

The issues:

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet. 

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

* Avalon claimed numerous delays, sabotage, yifu not getting enough beauty sleep and supply issues. 

Turned out many of the orders being delivered had a thick layer of dust in them while others had none. This indicates the dust filled machines have been running for some time (dust accumulates inside PC cases when fans are running). So the delays were also bullshit.

* More delays, piss poor communication and a touch of bitchiness from Yifu soured opinions and faith in Avalon to the current point.

* Avalon offered refunds for batch #3 clients (thanks for the interest free loan suckers).

But unfortunately it seems unless you filled in a specific google doc  not mentioned in any of the support requests clients have logged before an arbitrary deadline your refund will be refused.

[Wayne_Chang]

I've been out of the loop for a bit on bitcoin talk and Avalon over the last 3 or 4 months.  Why are people getting refunded on their batch 3's?  Is Avalon forcing them to take refunds, or are people looking for a refund on their own, and if so why?

This is my brief summary of the situation.

First of, Im deeply saddened to see Avalon degrade to near BFL standards - Yifu you had my respect but it is lost permanently now.

The issues:

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet. 

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

* Avalon claimed numerous delays, sabotage, yifu not getting enough beauty sleep and supply issues. 

Turned out many of the orders being delivered had a thick layer of dust in them while others had none. This indicates the dust filled machines have been running for some time (dust accumulates inside PC cases when fans are running). So the delays were also bullshit.

* More delays, piss poor communication and a touch of bitchiness from Yifu soured opinions and faith in Avalon to the current point.

* Avalon offered refunds for batch #3 clients (thanks for the interest free loan suckers).

But unfortunately it seems unless you filled in a specific google doc  not mentioned in any of the support requests clients have logged before an arbitrary deadline your refund will be refused.

Add 1 item for you:
Avalon stated that trade-in customers would be specially treated compare with batch#2 customers in April's newsletter.
Reality is, yes, they were treated specially, but, specially delayed than even batch#3 customers.

[SellingMyGPUs]

The issues:

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

* Avalon claimed numerous delays, sabotage, yifu not getting enough beauty sleep and supply issues.  

Turned out many of the orders being delivered had a thick layer of dust in them while others had none. This indicates the dust filled machines have been running for some time (dust accumulates inside PC cases when fans are running). So the delays were also bullshit.

Not to mention the default Avalon mining software config has the following address as it's third load balancing pool:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW

https://i.imgur.com/G4891wb.png

[mem]

I've been out of the loop for a bit on bitcoin talk and Avalon over the last 3 or 4 months.  Why are people getting refunded on their batch 3's?  Is Avalon forcing them to take refunds, or are people looking for a refund on their own, and if so why?

This is my brief summary of the situation.

First of, Im deeply saddened to see Avalon degrade to near BFL standards - Yifu you had my respect but it is lost permanently now.

The issues:

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here for further details.

* Avalon claimed numerous delays, sabotage, yifu not getting enough beauty sleep and supply issues.  

Turned out many of the orders being delivered had a thick layer of dust in them while others had none. This indicates the dust filled machines have been running for some time (dust accumulates inside PC cases when fans are running). So the delays were also bullshit.

* More delays, piss poor communication and a touch of bitchiness from Yifu soured opinions and faith in Avalon to the current point.

Surprise, Yifu's good will ran out so he turns into another BFL_Josh.

* Avalon offered refunds for batch #3 clients (thanks for the interest free loan suckers).

But unfortunately it seems unless you filled in a specific google doc  not mentioned in any of the support requests clients have logged before an arbitrary deadline your refund will be refused.

* Avalon stated that trade-in customers would be specially treated compare with batch#2 customers in April's newsletter.

Reality is, yes, they were treated specially, but, specially delayed more than even batch#3 customers.

[jermwerty]

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here for further details.

To be fair:

My Batch #2 Avalon had three pools configured by default with FAILOVER configured.  The first two pools appeared to be the internal testnet pools.  The third pool was this eligius pool.

Based on the flat line from 2nd June - 10 July its not like "they ran these for a month". 

[ProfMac]

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here for further details.

To be fair:

My Batch #2 Avalon had three pools configured by default with FAILOVER configured.  The first two pools appeared to be the internal testnet pools.  The third pool was this eligius pool.

Based on the flat line from 2nd June - 10 July its not like "they ran these for a month". 

I don't understand any reason why they should throw away perfectly good hashes.  What is the objection if the test is on a live pool, especially if we can all see it?  We know that the machines work, and that a lot of them existed last weekend (10 days ago).

[SolarSilver]

I don't understand any reason why they should throw away perfectly good hashes.  What is the objection if the test is on a live pool, especially if we can all see it?  We know that the machines work, and that a lot of them existed last weekend (10 days ago).

This has been discussed over and over again last year, you are competing with your existing and future customers, driving up difficulty and reducing their profit.

Now, if they would redistribute the BTC 780 they gained this way by donating it to a development project or faucet, I guess it would soften the blow, but the point is Yifu personally said they would not do it and they are not doing it and they will never mine with the equipment.

Obviously Yifu is in NY and has no influence of what his minions are doing in CN, and obviously he also has no idea what they are doing behind his back.

[Wayne_Chang]

Obviously Yifu is in NY and has no influence of what his minions are doing in CN, and obviously he also has no idea what they are doing behind his back.

Or maybe he just pretends to be innocent.

[SolarSilver]

Or maybe he just pretends to be innocent.

Oh I still believe he is of good faith and will, it's just very hard to control your business if you are not 24/7 at the location overseeing operations.

You can only pull this off if you can delegate certain responsibilities to other capable people in your team but past behavior has shown he has issues with that ;-)

[Wayne_Chang]

Or maybe he just pretends to be innocent.

Oh I still believe he is of good faith and will, it's just very hard to control your business if you are not 24/7 at the location overseeing operations.

You can only pull this off if you can delegate certain responsibilities to other capable people in your team but past behavior has shown he has issues with that ;-)

I understand a man's capability is limited.
But when he got millions of dollars money from his customer, he has the responsibility to dealing the business well. Not only because the money, but also the faith or trust his customers gave him.
Unfortunately, From the beginning, I did not see the willing of making business better. Instead of it, only silence and ignoring.

[fpgaminer]

Lol, I've never slept so well in my life as when I had my avalon running in my bedroom. Now, I'm back to not sleeping a wink

Get a white noise machine.  It's perfect for people who sleep better with some background, wind-like noise.  That particular model (I own one) generates a hollow, wind blowing through a cave, sound.  Covers the mid to high frequency range pretty well. 

That said, in my personal situation, I have to go a step further since my goal is not sleep assistance, but noise cancelling.  I have a huge subwoofer playing a looping white noise track off an old iPod.  The subwoofer fills my entire apartment with a dull drone, blocking almost all "apartment living" noises.  Very effective.  But for you, if sleep is the concern, that puppy linked above should be enough to slay your sleep demons.

[mem]

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here for further details.

To be fair:

My Batch #2 Avalon had three pools configured by default with FAILOVER configured.  The first two pools appeared to be the internal testnet pools.  The third pool was this eligius pool.

Based on the flat line from 2nd June - 10 July its not like "they ran these for a month". 

I don't understand any reason why they should throw away perfectly good hashes.  What is the objection if the test is on a live pool, especially if we can all see it?  We know that the machines work, and that a lot of them existed last weekend (10 days ago).

hello ProfMac,

lets put this simply - Yifu publically stated they would not mine on main net with clients hardware. 
Secondly, the hardware is not his nor does it belong to his company - the company was bankrolled by the early investors/ preorders - they have no right or expectation to get free hashes on clients machines.

This is a very simple point.

Put simpler, Yifu stated they would not mine, people invested with this in mind, turned out Yifu is a blatant liar.

[ProfMac]

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here for further details.

To be fair:

My Batch #2 Avalon had three pools configured by default with FAILOVER configured.  The first two pools appeared to be the internal testnet pools.  The third pool was this eligius pool.

Based on the flat line from 2nd June - 10 July its not like "they ran these for a month". 

I don't understand any reason why they should throw away perfectly good hashes.  What is the objection if the test is on a live pool, especially if we can all see it?  We know that the machines work, and that a lot of them existed last weekend (10 days ago).

hello ProfMac,

lets put this simply - Yifu publically stated they would not mine on main net with clients hardware. 
Secondly, the hardware is not his nor does it belong to his company - the company was bankrolled by the early investors/ preorders - they have no right or expectation to get free hashes on clients machines.

This is a very simple point.

Put simpler, Yifu stated they would not mine, people invested with this in mind, turned out Yifu is a blatant liar.

Yes, it is a simple way to view the situation.

There is a story in Texas that a Ranger asked a man, in broken Spanish, if he had a horse.  The man said no, and the Ranger shot him dead as a liar and a criminal.  It turns out that the man was innocent and had answered truthfully.  There is still bad feeling along the border about this incident.  In Spanish, there are two words;  the analogy that carries into English is asking a man if he has a bull, and then shooting him because he has a cow and answered "no."

As to ownership, here are some choices: 
1.  The ownership is not defined until the machine passes QC, then it belongs to the assigned customer.  The customer gets a working machine no matter what manufacturing difficulties arise.  The quality variance is small, the time variance is high.
2.  The ownership is assigned early, perhaps as soon as the parts for one single board are identified.  The customer gets whatever is made, working or not.  The time variance is small, the quality variance is high.

No one can make the quality and the time variance both small.

What the community can do, however, is be so vocal and demanding that venture capitalists, who are risk adverse; and entrepreneurs, who do not know how long innovative things will take, both view the bitcoin arena as high risk.

[mem]

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here for further details.

To be fair:

My Batch #2 Avalon had three pools configured by default with FAILOVER configured.  The first two pools appeared to be the internal testnet pools.  The third pool was this eligius pool.

Based on the flat line from 2nd June - 10 July its not like "they ran these for a month". 

I don't understand any reason why they should throw away perfectly good hashes.  What is the objection if the test is on a live pool, especially if we can all see it?  We know that the machines work, and that a lot of them existed last weekend (10 days ago).

hello ProfMac,

lets put this simply - Yifu publically stated they would not mine on main net with clients hardware. 
Secondly, the hardware is not his nor does it belong to his company - the company was bankrolled by the early investors/ preorders - they have no right or expectation to get free hashes on clients machines.

This is a very simple point.

Put simpler, Yifu stated they would not mine, people invested with this in mind, turned out Yifu is a blatant liar.

Yes, it is a simple way to view the situation.

There is a story in Texas that a Ranger asked a man, in broken Spanish, if he had a horse.  The man said no, and the Ranger shot him dead as a liar and a criminal.  It turns out that the man was innocent and had answered truthfully.  There is still bad feeling along the border about this incident.  In Spanish, there are two words;  the analogy that carries into English is asking a man if he has a bull, and then shooting him because he has a cow and answered "no."

As to ownership, here are some choices: 
1.  The ownership is not defined until the machine passes QC, then it belongs to the assigned customer.  The customer gets a working machine no matter what manufacturing difficulties arise.  The quality variance is small, the time variance is high.
2.  The ownership is assigned early, perhaps as soon as the parts for one single board are identified.  The customer gets whatever is made, working or not.  The time variance is small, the quality variance is high.

No one can make the quality and the time variance both small.

What the community can do, however, is be so vocal and demanding that venture capitalists, who are risk adverse; and entrepreneurs, who do not know how long innovative things will take, both view the bitcoin arena as high risk.

Nice story, unfortunately it does not apply here.
Yifu insisted several times quite adamantly they did not use clients equipment to mine nor did they mine themselves. This is a blatant lie, there is no excusing it or explaining it as a misunderstanding. Further more he and his company were mining to the detriment of their investors, showing an absolute lack of respect for the very people that helped bank roll his company.

The stated they would not mine on main net, it has been proven without a doubt they do and continue to do so.

This is not a case of "did you mine ?, yes but with other hardware".
This is a case of "we mined using client/investor funded hardware before the client/investor had a chance of earning their ROI.

This is not a case of a language barrier.
where poor Yifu assumed that all the start up capital he was provided with was for him to piss away at his discretion and the greedy clients were asking for the moon when told they would get a working ASIC delivered in N Months.

Yifu has revealed himself to be someone who lies to anyone whenever it is convenient and as such no longer has the credibility to be trusted further. 

Lets compare apples to apples for a moment here.

Yifu while being good ar PR has been proven to be a a liar and depending on your view of things a thief. 

BFL_Josh An Angry, aggressive and outspoken individual who I believe has been conned into being the bigger fool for sonny. That being said, I have yet to catch Josh out in any blatant lies at worst he could be said to be an asshole who is blindly and fatally optimistic about his companies performance.

It truly saddens me, BFL had set the bar so low that I felt avalon could only go up - boy was I shocked when Yifu decided to 1 up BFL_Josh in douchebaggery.

[ProfMac]

Yes, it is a simple way to view the situation.

There is a story in Texas that a Ranger asked a man, in broken Spanish, if he had a horse.  The man said no, and the Ranger shot him dead as a liar and a criminal.  It turns out that the man was innocent and had answered truthfully.  There is still bad feeling along the border about this incident.  In Spanish, there are two words;  the analogy that carries into English is asking a man if he has a bull, and then shooting him because he has a cow and answered "no."

Nice story, unfortunately it does not apply here.

cow --- to test equipment that has not been verified to work and has not been assigned an owner, for 24 hours under realistic conditions, then proceed to assign and ship it.
bull --- to run equipment that has passed QC and assigned to a customer for the sole purpose of gaining BTC.
moth --- to ship unreliable equipment that may catch fire.

[batman, not crabman]

^I'm not sure I follow that last post there, but have to agree with mem.
There is no confusion, Yifu lied (or has no control over his employees which is just as bad if you're running a business) about where he would mine to test the hardware.  Now he (well, technically Avalon) has both the initial payments (minus costs), plus the money mined with the equipment produced with those initial payments.

To be clear I have no problem with Yifu/Avalon making a profit, even a large one.  They were first to the market and deserve the spoils.  But the way customers have been treated is unacceptable, apparently there are still some Batch 1 Avalon's to be delivered (going from memory here so I could be wrong).  Assuming it's just a stock availability issue (again, could be wrong as I know there have been payment issues) delayed batch 1 customers should have received the first of the batch 2 units imo. Then depayed batch 2 customers get the first batch 3 units...

I'm also not sure how lying about whether you have a horse make you a criminal...