Bitcoin Forum

KNC miner is refusing refunds who needs to be contacted to inform they are not adhearing to the laws of it hasn't shipped they need to give a refund?
 

any proof of this statement?

eh, proof? Do ou have some correspondence with them where they refused your refund. The gave some ppl refunds last week.

yes I have email corispondance from a keith.

post it here.

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o552/kaliecious/photo_zps85ab9c50.png (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/kaliecious/media/photo_zps85ab9c50.png.html)

This was received this morning when I woke up.

Rien ne va plus  ;D

de ja fucking vu

omfg, here we go again..

Please post the photo

With

Josh, Sam, Yifu

The terms are pretty clear cut in this instance.  Make sure you read the terms carefully.  I would say actual terms take precedent over a posted forum reply.  Why do you want a refund if I might ask?

11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser.

family member past away and in order to get the inheritance I have to pay a flipping tax in advance.
 

You can easily sell shares of your rig, create a post in group buy section, get btc in 2 days and sell it.

Repeat the following 1000 times or until it finally sinks in...


"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"
"I shall never pre-order mining gear"............................................

I've never understood the shares thing so its best I just keep away from doing that. I waited and never cancelled my bfl order and they are hashing away, but if it wasn't for this I would wait.

Sorry about the loss,but it is strange KNC is doing this considering many people have mentioned getting refunds.

I know there country has much better consumer laws then the US, but im not sure to what extent, that is why I am asking who I would contact in order to make/report my grievance there. and I was sure they had something similar to the states that if the product hasn't shipped by law they have to refund it, it doesn't matter if its in a "production status" or not.

What does your order consist of and how much did you pay?

its a sat, but its almost a 10th of what my taxes I have to pay.
 

Just eBay it then. You should make a decent profit since ppl are willing to pay lots of money for money printing machines.

KnCMiner has refunded over $30,000 to my group buy. Sam Cole is awesome.

and cant refund a 36-3700$ unit. how nice.

KNC made it very clear that you could get a refund right up to the time the units went to production.

As you saw from their website, they are in production, you will likely have it in hand in a matter of weeks.

You have the opportunity to make a tidy profit here, on ebay, a group buy with no problem at all.

This is not Deja Vu it's just bad timing on your part.

Let me know if you want help

Dont lie, shill.
Sam stated that you can refund in the shipping your order day.

Not unicorn october date with no chips yet.

When I asked for my refund there was nothing on site that said anything about production. in matter of fact it was just posted because im sure something is being monitored somewhere and they see a shit storm coming.

My "dwa grosze":

1) KNC is registered in Sweden in EU. If you buy anything online you have right to cancel the purchase even 14 days after delivery. It does not apply to "professional buyers" such as entrepreneurs.
2) It is possible that you do not have to return the product in 14 days. You must inform seller in 14 days that you wish to cancel but than you have 14 more days to return the device. Seller even must pay back your shipping costs. So free mining for 28 days.
3) There is however way to block consumer right to cancel the order and return the product. If it is "personalized" before shipping it is considered "unreturnable". Now if you thought that KNC is adding you worker settings to the unit becouse they are nice, think again :-)
4) KNC and all other vendors might write anything they want in terms of ordering and shipping. If they are contrary to the consumer rights laws then laws are more important. Even more, you can get high penalties in EU if you even write such things on your website. (for example, in Poland you will get fine if you write that buyer sends back the product he don't like on his own cost).
5) In Poland (and several other countries) if you are not informed about your right to cancel the order in 10/14 days (in Poland it is not 14 but 10 days), you have 3 months to cancel the order. 3 months FROM THE DAY YOU FOUND OUT THAT YOU HAVE RIGHT TO CANCEL (!!!).

(DISCLAIMER: I am not 100% sure that 14 more days limit is respected in Sweden, althoug it is in Poland and several other EU countries that I am shipping my goods to. Similar with product-personalization - it is the trick many vendors use, but I am not an expert on Swedish local regulations, although they are similar in whole EU.)

http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/Consumer-rights/Right-to-cancel-a-purchase/


it seems they are a 14day

im not good with legal jargin

Just hire a Swedish lawyer to send them a letter.  It will cost you few hundred Euros, but they will refund promptly.

Hahahahaha.
Don´t be so bad, this people is suffering.

+1

That was my reaction as well.

This is why people are getting pissed off, as they are now changing their word. Let's hope they did this because they are very close to shipping and not because something has gone badly wrong.

where's Bitcoinorama when you need him?

wasn't this his whole schtick?

Yes I am a shill.

You need a refund?

How sure are you? Have you done the same thing?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but according to their terms and conditions, which you must agree to in order to place an order:

From 8.1 Delivery terms:
"The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery."

So, according to the terms, you're not entitled to cancel the order. Therefore, previously processed refunds can be considered a "generosity" on the part of KnC. In other words, they can stop offering refunds whenever they want.


From 13.1 Amendments, Assignments etc.:
"13.1.1 Any written or oral undertakings and commitments made prior to the Agreement are replaced by the content in these general terms and conditions of sale."

This means that any of those statements made on the forums about refunds up to the day it ships, etc. are totally worthless.


Okay, so it would seem you're locked in. That's not so bad, right?

Let's dig a little more:
From 8. Delivery terms:
"The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner."

Hmm, so I guess they can delay shipment indefinitely without consequence? Oh well, I gess some delays can be reasonably expected...

From 11. Force Majeure:
"11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure..."

Wait... this says they can cancel an order without refund under certain circumstances? What are those circumstances I wonder?

11.1 Continued:
"...strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser."

Wow, it looks like anything that goes wrong qualifies, including bankruptcy. So, by these terms, they can set their personal salaries very high, delay production/shipment indefinitely, refuse all refunds, and force a bankruptcy situation, relieving them of any obligation to pay anyone back?

I hope I'm wrong about that, bit it's kind of a scary thought.

You do know that they've built a datacentre? Purchased 100's of 850w PSU's. This is not the behaviour of a company planning a hit and run.

I think the point is that if the plane that is carry the chips plummets into the sea, then KNC customers are shit-out-of-luck and will have to wait as long as it takes to get them replaced. Who wouldn't have such a clause in there t&c's?

I guess what you pointed out here about forum comments is probably true, in a legal sense.


However, I'm sure someone posted an email from KNC saying that refunds were available up to shipping. If that email was recent and it was being sent to customers, it would possibly be fair to argue it over-rules this clause?

No, to be honest, I know very little about what they are doing. I only took an interest recently because it has a significant impending effect on the bitcoin economy, and I like to know what's what. Is there a source for this data center info?

I suppose it could be argued, but I really have no idea if it applies from a legal standpoint. If this email was only sent to one person, or a select few, I think that would be at their discretion. I mean, everyone agreed to their terms and conditions, and it seems highly unlikely that a company would undermine their own terms, which probably required careful planning and legal council to make sure they were properly protected.

but Bitcoinorama assured us all thousands of times that we could get refunds right up until the time of shipment or delivery (can't remember which but it doesn't matter)?

Photos upon photos upon photos  ;D
http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/kncminer-hosting/kncminer-pool/2934-more-real-p-pictures-of-the-data-centre

I totally agree. That's why they'd have to accept that if there customer service team were sending this message to people, that IS their terms.

Anyway, this is all speculation and hopefully unnecessary. I hope somewhere in Sweden machines are pumping out the goods as we speak.

P.S. iCEBREAKER, your ignore button is incredibly yellow, so I'm not even going to look at that chart.

This is why they're refusing refunds:

KnC's EZ-Copy pseudo-ASIC isn't going to be competitive against Bitfury, much less HashFast.

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:

https://i.imgur.com/dLDDAhe.png

HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

(Post deleted)

Sorry, removed seller's name that's buying KnC orders. He's all done buying KnC pre-orders.

I'd like to make a few points here.

1. KnC just issued a news post saying they have started FULL production, and the miners should be here within the coming days. They say they're on schedule, and...

2. This won't be a repeat of what we had with the company who... Shall not be named. KnC has shown a huge amount of things, such as the chips, the PCB production, and what we'll surely be seeing soon, a working Jupiter/Saturn. They have shown multiple steps of production, and they're saying...

3. They're on schedule. This isn't like BFL. It's not like ", We're shipping in September... No, October... Actually, November... ect." They have a tight schedule, and as long as they get day 1 shipped by the 1st, I'll be happy. Even if day 1 gets shipped within the first week of October, I'll be fine. If they stick to their promises, they'll be able to manufacture, and maybe ship HUNDREDS in a day. So, I expect by tomorrow, or even Saturday, these things WILL be shipping.

But, I've never even been to the office, so, I guess we'll be relying on KnC and even Bitcoinorama, since he'll be over there. We'll see where it goes from here, but I'm trusting in KnC...

the tax man making me want to commit harry-karry myself. I didn't know they could take the part of a estate that's already had the taxes payed on. :-/ I thought it was all earnings for the ear that wasn't taxed. It sounds like double taxation which I don't see how is legal but I've never had to deal with a parent death either. :(

oh icy  - hero members can also be bright yellow trolls too

why are you posting this misleading crap ?

hashfast will deliver sierras and jets for this price in january
and promotion is over

It's called inheritance tax in Germany. It is there so that the state can get your moniez when you die instead of all going to your heirs.
Also - most people get a bank credit only for the amount they have to pay the state. OR a mortage on the house you are to inherit. Sorry for your loss btw. And a really shitty timing too - but alas, you can't blame KNC for not giving you a refund after they went into full production. I know, you said you send them a refund notice before they posted that, but I imagine they started to deilver the stuff to the factory this morning and only took a little longer to post it. They gave refunds until yesterday. I know that, since until yesterday my little page refresher cried out loud every time an october unit was on sale again (sadly, I got none of those, must be someone grabbing them with scripts...)

If you paid with a credit card, then you can still do a chargeback, In fact, you may be able to get a charge back even if it's just late.  If you bought a HashFast then you're completely SOL if they miss their goals.

As far as requesting a refund at this point, it seems obvious the reason you can't is because orders are about to be assembled and shipped, and if an order were canceled now it might still go out.

I'm not exactly sure why people are surprised about this.

+1

All ASIC manufacturers with preorders will end up the same way.  Market price will outpace their batch pricing and then all shit breaks loose.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301603.0

not sure what you mean by October unit. :/ I purchased june 10th. order 1888. I just purchased sat back and wait, hell I rarely get on here often. look how many posts I've had for 2-3 years of being around this place. I didn't even know they had a forum up until I went and read about this update they posted. I waited a year and 15-20 days to get my bfl order and ever asked for a refund from them and they was supposed to be the scammers, now im asking a legit company because I need it and feel like im getting scammed. but their rules is their rules, by their laws I don't have to accept if I understood the 14 day rule then I should be able to get a refund if I understood it correctly, but the shipping can be deducted.

free market here. so buyer beware rule applies.

how do I contact the sam guy or can someone pm me a email for him.

If you purchase something by mail order, over the phone, from TV-shop, on the internet or via door-to-door sales you have the right to cancel your purchase within 14 days, this applies within Sweden. 

 

When you purchase from a store on the other hand, you have no right according to the law to cancel your purchase.This is regulated by the Door-to-Door Sales Act which includes the requirement that the seller must provide clear information about how you can cancel your purchase.

Distance contracts

When you purchase goods at a distance on the Internet, the period you have to cancel your purchase starts on the day you receive your purchase or a considerable part of it. If you purchase something from another EU country, for example on the Internet, you also have the right to cancel your purchase (a cooling-off period), but the amount of time you have to cancel might be shorter than 14 days. You will find more information about shopping across borders at Konsument Europas’ web site (information in Swedish and English).

The right to cancel a purchase also applies if you have reached a distance agreement to receive a service. It may for example be trade services, but the law also applies to agreements for certain financial services such as loans, insurances and payment services. The cooling-off period of 14 days also applies to services, except for life insurances and individual private pension savings. Then the right to cancel is 30 days. As a rule, the cooling-off period starts on the day the agreement is reached. When you buy life insurance, the cooling-off period starts on the day you are notified that the agreement has been concluded.

The cancellation period however never starts until you have received all the information the seller must provide you with. When you purchase financial services, the cooling-off period does not start until you receive the terms of the contract.

Door-to-door sales

The rules regarding door-to-door sales apply if you purchase, hire or offer a price for a product or enter into an agreement for a service with a company in your own home. The rules also apply when the seller organises a trip to a place outside his permanent place of sale. In addition, the rules apply for Home Parties and for agreements that you for example enter into at your place of work, on a train journey or any other place where it may be difficult for you to get away from a sales person.  Even with door-to-door sales you have a 14 day cancellation period. If you enter into an agreement for life insurance, you have more time to cancel it, 30 days.

Information document

When you enter into a home sales agreement, the seller must provide you with a document which informs you about your cancellation rights and provides you with the name and address of the person to contact if you want to exercise your right to cancel. You sign one copy of the document to confirm that you have received it. Along with the information document you also receive a cancellation form that you can use if you want to cancel.

The cancellation period is the same for home sales as for distance agreements. The cancellation period does not start until you have received the information and the cancellation form.

If you have received a good or materials at a home visit, you must keep the good or materials available in order for the seller to be able to pick it up at your home. If you received the good or the material at a later date, it is your duty to return the good to the seller. You then have the right to receive compensation for reasonable return expenses.

Return freight

If you choose to cancel the purchase in the event of a distance agreement, you have to pay for the return freight yourself. As regards home and telephone sales, the seller has to pay for the return freight.

Exceptions

In certain instances the rules regarding homes sales do not apply. For example if the total price of your purchase is less than SEK 300 or if the agreement is entered at a home visit arranged on your own initiative and express request.
     


Does this mean I should be able to get my refund when I ask for one?

Both KNC and Bitcoinorama stated that refunds were available anytime before shipment.

They seem to have bundled the assembly into the shipping now eh?

They have shipped to the factory which will put them on the shipping trucks, with a small matter of assembling them taking place there to fit them as whole units into the trucks or planes or whatever?

Something like "here are the parts, here are the destination addresses, please assemble and ship" ?

-MarkM-

or come up with a line of bullshit to stop refunds from happening because he just done a 30k refund. :-/

Funny  This is EXACTLY the same crap BFL tried to pull....  Scum Bags...  All of them

Greed!!!!

for them doesnt matter if one more or less unit will be shipped
they are the same units.

they are disgusting liars, such a shame.

problem is, jupiter production cost is about 500$, first early adopters are paying ridiculous margin for NRE for the next months, years.

those early adopters are all fucked by knc due to late shipping, no working prototype at the last days of september.

that means they will get maybe 50% back what they have paid in BTC, or less.

I got the impression BFL is hardly even trying; they don't seem to work weekends, they don't even seem to make full use of their assembly space/stations by running shifts 24/7 so are presumably only using 1/3 to 1/2 the number of people in assembly as the space could fit if put to full use.

-MarkM-

I think there is a reason there is Pic of all them smiling and laughing...   

So damn glad I got out of these Rip Offs..   

i agree with this.

Ok, this is hearsay, but I have heard from a number of people that Sam is very responsive. I think that even given the policy stated, there is a good chance that your special case might be sufficient for him to refund you. I would email him if you haven't already.

Sorry to hear of your loss. Take the time to grieve if you possibly can.

-Kevin

Where are you getting this from? BFL never promised to work holidays, weekends, or 24/7. And how the hell does one use 1/3 or 1/2 a man? I'm seriously! Have you been there? Well, I have, and they use every square inch of space they have and then some.

Running 24/7 shifts is an impossibility, even if the manpower were there or the suppliers delivered on time predicated on the chips they receive, for the simple fact that there's not enough room on the dock to place 1,200 boxes daily awaiting for the four different carriers to pick them up before the entire process would start all over again.

Trust me! When BFL rids their backlog by the end of the year, give or take, they'll be free to dedicate their entire resources to only one line--the Monarch. And since they have learned from all pass mistakes, they're be no problem when them getting all the units pre-sold into the hands of their customs no later then the end of February as promised projected.

OTOH, KnC promised that all refunds will be honored up to the time of the item being shipped and I will cry fowl, like a free-ranged chicken, if they renege on that promise.

Never trust anyone whoever feels the need to say this IMO. By god Phinn has changed his tune...

go get 'em Phin!

I asked for 2jupiter refunds and got the same answer with production bla bla bla...then i called them and told them i really need the money and they agreed.
So try calling them.
I have another 2 orders left, which i`m not sure what to do about... i`ll wait until the 1st of oct before i cancel

should've grabbed the other refunds when you had the chance.

I did, they gave me mumbo jumbo about unit inproduction and be shipping in the next week or 2. I told them my problem and there was nothing they could do.

Inaba, Yifu, Sam

who will be next ?

Umm, Weren't the current products one line? The SC force?

Or are you saying because they came in different sizes they are seven different lines?

Right now the Monarch comes in 300Gh and 600GH

I am pretty sure that is one line with two sizes,

compared to the SC Force Line with 7 sizes.

Website still says:  January / February    Bulk Shipping

not End of February.

You do realize that you can spin the term "Bulk Shipping" so many ways that if I ship one Monarch a day, then next week I ship 10 a day I am BULK shipping?

The weasel words, the weasel words.

Haven't you heard?  PG is pro-BFL (i.e. fanboy, sock puppet) ever since they gave him free miner(s).  I hope it is worth it.

it is for him.  Why do people keep thinking everyone is doing bitcoin do charity.  That might have been true in the 1st or 2nd year but not now.  This is a good thing.  The more people treat it like real money the more it becomes real money.

Think outside the box.  My company uses temporary storage containers from PODS and Pack-Rat in the parking lot when they need extra space.  You can rent them by the month.  They pickup when you are done.  We run 3 shifts a day/ 6 days/wk for manufacturing because time=money and only using 33% of the day is inefficient.  We do go down to 2 shifts when it gets slow.

If they have supply chain issues, that would explain a lot.  But that is why you have 2nd and 3rd backup options ready and waiting.

Their inexperience in manufacturing is obvious.

FUD

Who's the 4th guy in the picture ?
I hope it's some cointerra guy. I don't want them to drop 2 Petahash in December :)

Cheers.

You sir are thoughly brainwashed...................BFL has NOT learned anything,except how guillable customers are  ::)

Well, his spinning avatar indicates he only has half a brain to wash.  ;D

LMAO  :D 

Hope KnC gets to shipping soon,even if they delay,it'll NEVER be as late as BFL  ;)

BFL shill in KNC thread eh?  I used to back PG...then that bastard went all benedict arnold on us real miners in the forum...yea I don't really like him now.

I requested a refund about a month ago when I saw the writing on the way. Got my money back no issues.

Phinnaeus Gage is kidding I assume. Similar to
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236309.msg2501963#msg2501963
or
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278780.0

No love lost between Inaba and Phinnaeus...

That PG is gone. May he rest in peace, because he kept me in stitches with his posts. We need a best of PG. Those were some classic posts.

Life goes on.  Kinda sad since BFL doesn't seem to have changed any but PG did.  I love how now they got two buttons of pre-order and order for 65nm but click on those supposed immediate order overpriced miners and it still says two months or more.  Someone should take over for PG.

Ironically, the post in question was penned to keep you in stitches, but somehow it got lost in translation. Short of using the seven letter word starting with s and ending with m, did you notice the strikethrough on the word promise?

Sadism? Oh, wait, that's six letters.... [/sarcasm]

Thank god for that; sometimes when it seems everyone else has gone crazy, one starts to question one's own sanity...

Thanks Phinnaeus, for confirming to me that I've not gone off the deep end

The first two weeks of October will really make or break the reputation of KNC imho. Either they ship mass quantitates of orders or they become the next in a line of horrible ASIC companies. Anything greater than two weeks TM and still no significant shipments to show and they are done.  I am hoping they pull through as I have a few pre-order shares.

He's still got it. I'm glad that you have some piece of mind now. That's worth more than what a bunch of tools say in the trollforums.

The only thing I've mostly scaled back is the vitriol attacks and FUD. Trust me, I'm not brainwashed. Anybody planning on going to Atlanta next week?

wow, way off topic! I've got 28 days and have to get 12k still. and thanks to dick head knc who told me no on refund and when I called them told me their products was for business only to try to buck the 14 day rule. but offer a purchase option for the general public option on their site and do not verify purchaser is a business with a buy off our website option proves they are looking to sale to the general public and do not care if the purchaser is business or not.
 

oh and they told me a week or 2 on the phone. so get ready most purchasers are fucked on September

A week or two from now still falls in the -before 15th of October- delivery time frame so depending on your order number it's not necessarily a delay.
Do you have a day1 or day2 order? if not, when did you order?

you have got 1/2day of shipment or just paid?.)

im not sure, order was june 10 and im order 1888, as I stated I ordered and was just sitting back waiting till I had a fam emergency. I've got 2 60 gig miners im selling off also and have sold all but 10 bc. 12k to raise in 27 days so I don't lose my inheritiance

They had that lottery thing back in June and everyone that got in on that were told they were either day 1or 2. One of my orders is 2000 and I was told October for mine. That no refund shit is disturbing. I'm really sorry to hear that considering your circumstances. KnC needs to let us know good or bad what is going on. Sadly, the best info on crumbs of news comes from here not on their forum or on their website. Day 1 and 2 folks obviously are not getting their gear by tomorrow since no one has reported a tracking number yet. That just sucks hard for them.

You are getting an inheritance and can't get a short term loan to cover the tax?  Are your soon to be assets that illiquid and/or worthless?

Sounds like more FUD..  why not say you have a dying grandmother that needs meds but will die without your KNC refund.. omg KNC are KILLERS!!!!

I didn't know I could get a short term loan to cover the taxes, ill investigate that tomorrow. but I've got shitty credit. :-/ but if the bank will allow the assets of the estate to be used as collateral they should say yes. if they wont, I know what the answer will be. 

are you fucking kidding me? I posted that ages ago on this thread. I am really concerned for sanity.... You even quoted some of that post....  ::)

Maybe it's a Texas thing.

I wouldn't want that junk sent back to me either. :-\

Hey cage, Thanks for the advice, I went to bank and after about 20 mins they was trying to approve me for the full 30k needed and I upset them with asking for the 12k I wanted. it sucks though I sold almost 100 coins and kept 10 for me. :-/ but I guess all's well that ends well. 

Do you have any proof for this..

proof of the no refunds being offered, yes I do, its on the first page. if ya didn't skim the thread like I sometimes do you would see the big huge pic of the email I posted.

The voltage regulators alone cost $500.  $1000 on the 8-VRM versions.

woah! If that's true KnC is going to have hard time competing with other ASIC manufacturers in the future.

I don't think this generation was exactly built for price wars or efficiency, they seemed to mainly focusing on getting something that would work without proper testing and evaluation to make sure they could stick to their schedule. Building in margins to account for worst case scenarios and trying to rush things can increase cost exponentially quite easily.

Proof? I doubt this

Remember to say Hi, to Josh and Jody ;)

Look it up.

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-30

I assume you know how to check the price of an electronic component, right?

They now that they have their chips, and know they don't actually take 40*8 amps each they can try cheaper components to see if they work as well.

Confirming KNC refuses to refund the amount of BTC they were given for their products. They offered to refund almost 50% less though, take it or leave it?

rly? could you please post KNC response with this statement?

Ofcourse they're not giving you back the amount of BTC you originally bought the device for. Due to volatility they almost immediately liquidate the BTC at the price it was at when you paid for the device. If BTC had crashed to $20 do you think they would give you the amount of BTC back you paid for? I'm certain you would feel ripped off if they did, so their only sensible choice is to refund the money in $ or in its value in BTC at the current exchange rate.

"Due to volatility they almost immediately liquidate the BTC at the price it was at when you paid for the device." - not my call what they do with their BTC and how can you be sure of your statement?

"If BTC had crashed to $20 do you think they would give you the amount of BTC back you paid for? I'm certain you would feel ripped off if they did" - not really and still willing to take the risk if they refund me my full amount of BTC. Tomorrow it might fall to $20, right?

Also please notice that they refused to refund between 1st-15th of Oct when the BTC rate was relatively stable, while allowing refunds now... that says a lot about their honesty.

Full refunds in BTC are something you should not expect from any company.

At least they are offering refunds.... btc, fiat, whatever

Why?

What does it say in their terms of sale?

Because they use BitPay which automatically liquidates the bitcoins for them. BitPay allows merchants to sell stuff in bitcoins without exposing themselves to the volatility of the bitcoin price which could ruin their business.


Don't be silly you can sell those bitcoins right away at market value. The hardware is priced in dollars not in bitcoins, you just happen to also be able to pay with bitcoins but the dollar price is the actual price and that's what you get in case of a refund.

I just got my refund today.  Right back to my paypal account.  I was order 65xx and there was no way in fuck I was getting my miner before november so fuck that noise.  They were VERY fast (I requested it sunday morning and they replied first thing monday morning swedish time). 

A lot of people need to realize that when they buy something priced in USD with BTC they are effectively "cashing out" unless of course they bought that BTC with USD at the time of purchase.

Yifu gave refunds chip refunds in BTC, even though the terms of sale said "No refunds".  I don't know if there was much of a price difference at the time.