Bitcoin Forum

When you check out, there are not a lot of people trusting Windows with valued data. If you have a company and want to handle data you will most likely go with some kind of Unix based server. Banks, for instance, wont use Windows servers to handle customers money and transactions.

I dont know about you, but I would like to go to bed knowing I am using a robust operating system to handle my Bitcoins. Nowadays you can end up having a lot of money on cryptocoins and (even if you got them really cheap) its time to start protecting them the same way you protect your money.

So maybe its time to download Ubuntu or Debian.
If you dont want to change your Windows life get an dedicated computer for Bitcoins, install some Linux flavor on it and use your online wallets and exchanges from there.

Remember that, with Bitcoin, you are your Bank!

Also protect your Harddisk as if it was real money.

I always wondered how Ubuntu can be secure when it doesnt have regular updates, just new major versions

Well, Linux upgrades versions more often than Windows and you can jump between versions
without loosing your applications and data. You just upgrade and keep using your OS as you
like it but with newer stuff. Linux have updates, in fact it naggs you from time to time to run updates.

Apparently you haven't run Ubuntu, packages are updated regularly, sometimes several times a week.

You can also do stupid things in Linux. I have seen several users that think they have to sudo any program, don't understand file permissions, and are prime targets for a trojan horse. The word "rootkit" comes from the Unix world, and the super user root.

If you have Bitcoin on your computer, much better advice is to do all your web browsing in a virtual machine, such as virtualbox + whatever OS you like + a non-IE non-chrome web browser, so that even when you get pwnd, the hack can't get out of the sandbox.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365194

Not only that, but sometimes people hide hacks in new alt coins. Linux can save you from that (most of the time).

This Im worried as well, this is why I dont install any of the alt coin client

Actually I just boot live Ubuntu CD without Hard disk to access exchange + blockchain.info wallet. So no updates are done. Is it secure to do it this way ?

Majority of the ATM's run windows embedded, the software on the terminals in the majority of banks is Windows, and I hate to break it to you, but windows server is used as the backend too.

In the US you will find the government ie. DOD uses microsoft, windows and server, most major corporations use windows and server for simplicity.

We live in a time where simplicity is everything and that is where good 'ole Bill Gates rules, he created a software and a monopoly to go with it.

Yes you can accomplish the same thing with linux, I have setup a full windows domain compatible linux server and showed how it was cost efficient to the higher ups, in the end we still went with microsoft because in there eyes, windows has a reputation.

With ubuntu you should be fine. If its a popular coin then I dont even try to verify, but if its new put the qt on a virtual box.

Windows have virtual box as well, and it is free

Yes. You could do that as well. What the op means is to not use vm but just linux.

Security holes in linux can be fixed by anyone who knows it exists, but it cant be in windows. Thats what makes linux superior.

I stopped at this point.
The last ATM  I saw from the back had a nice windows logo on it's screen.
Also the people in the bank are using computers running windows.

The largest corporation I saw using only Linux was Jurassic Park Inc.

I would call linux superior. The fact that the it is open source can cause it's weakness also.

Vulnerabilities have to be discovered with Windows and OS X, with Linux one just has to look through the source of the latest release and find the vulnerability and exploit it until it is patched.

Each OS has it's place, each has it strengths and weaknesses, not one is superior to the other.

I enjoy Linux, have been using it since the early days of Red Hat before X11 was even part of the main installation. I was a command line junky back then, but I was also wearing the wrong color fedora too. (Geeks will understand)

Now I use Mac OS X and I like it because of it's unix backend, and I have my Windows in VM's for application specific stuff, mainly my Motorola programing software.

I would run either Fedora or Ubuntu on my MacBook Pro if it wasn't for the wife and her damn netflix (Linux guys/gals knows this headache) and our iPhones (iTunes)

I agree, Microsoft is doing good work and publishing security patches regularly. You pay for it and many programmers working on windows security

I actually lol's at the Jurassic Park reference.

You forgot to add that, the patch are quick to be release than Windows, because it is open source.

They can be, but it also depends on what distro you are using. If you are using ubuntu you will get faster patches then say slackware, or debian its self. Patches for major releases still have to be approved before pushing them out for any os.

Actually , when I saw that girl playing monopoly on a "UNIX" system , that was the moment I press the stop button.
Enough BS was enough.

Sorry dude, english is not my native language as you will see!

An ATM running Windows and showing you the OS Logo?
Yeah dude, I would use that OS to take care of my money!

How about you read the entire post , and be careful at the words?
I loaded more ATM's than I have ever used in my life when I was younger.

Why do most companies use linux instead of windows then???

The true is that people tend to use the same computer to store wallets and surf the internet and nowadays there are a lot of viruses waiting for you to click. Trojans, keyloggers, spyware, etc, etc. In a 95% of the cases that shit wont hit you in Linux because thay are simply devoleped to run on Windows. Linux is a bit safer since you have to manually install stuff provinding root data. What makes Linux harder to learn is what also makes it harder to hack. This is a fact and I encourage anyone here to tell his "I was on Linux and got hit by a virus".

If you use an ATM, you do use it. The only time you will see the Windows logo is during a reboot, or the inevitable crash, but since it runs embedded and it is on a non-volatile non-writable disk image there is no damage, it senses the crash via a watchdog timer and reboots itself.

Windows is in a lot of things you use, as is Java. Your GPS device, guess what, Windows CE. Depending on what car manufacturer you have if you have an integrated GPS, it is either Windows CE or a custom system. If it is Ford with Sync, yeah, you guessed it, Windows CE.

Don't take my word for it, I only work on these thing for a living, and did in the military.

Hell, here's a "I bet you didn't know"

The M1A2SEP Tank the military uses runs Windows CE on it's Commanders Display Unit, it also has a Red Hat partition for the FBCB2.

The FBCB2 (Blue Force Tracker) uses Red Hat.

I doubt this, any reference ?
Most people believe they get better product when they pay for it

How many fortune 500 companies can you say run Linux.

Google and Apple we know don't run Windows.

Google runs it's own flavor of Debian, while well, we know what Apple runs.

The largest company in the US, the government runs Windows, that I know, I used to be a sysadmin when I was in the Army from 2001-2012 and the government has the largest contract with Microsoft.

Hackers have the same view as we do. Im sure a person could find a keyhole just as easily as a hacker, and fix it. All in all linux is MUCH safer than windows.

Let me update my previous statement.

A quick search does so Fortune 500 companies favoring Linux, in one aspect, servers.

Understandable, even Microsoft had contributed at least 20% into writing code to make Linux server compatible with Microsoft software.

Now, running Linux server is one thing, but what about the thousands of PC's in the companies, Windows, either Professional or Enterprise if still on Vista then Business.

There is a saying, the safest and most secure computer is one which is powered off with nothing plugged into it.

The term Hackers, it makes me cringe when people say it as they really don't understand the meaning of a hacker anymore, but that is a different thread, on a different day.

Yes there are White Hats, Black Hats, and Grey Hats. Pick your hat and wear it, maybe you will switch hats one day, but all in all, we are all grey hats at heart.

If you truly think Linux is so much more secure then you should go to your bank and demand they switch all their data servers to Linux or you will switch banks until you find a linux compatible bank. Just kidding, had to bring the original topic back in somehow.

Linux is more stable, but not most secure. Out of the box, fresh install it is not the most secure os available, to make it the most secure you need to make it that way.

Hell a fresh install of windows is horrible when it come to security.

You want a secure out of the box solution, let me introduce you to: Lightweight Portable Security

http://www.spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm

Guys, the problem are not the servers nor the ATMs. ATMs are not surfing the web and dealing with all the shit out there.
The problem are the computers used to daily access internet and also host coins clients.
This is where Linux is much more safer. Almost all the shit out there is waiting for windows hosts to click and install on.

This is my major concern with linux. I 'm afraid that my ignorance will make hackers life easier. Is there a super hint to not screw things up with file permissions etc. Like creating a user account that can't screw up much no matter how inexperienced the user is  :P

When you install Linux, depending on your distro will handle root it's own way.

Debian flavors handle root with the command sudo. Debian users can also access the root account by "sudo su"

Red Hat / Fedora actually has a root account.

By default a user is just that, a user.

The biggest problem is newbies to linux think they have to su (super user) everything and that is where things get messed up

Nowadays breaking things is nos that easy and your ignorance wont help hackers at all.
Even if you dont know much  you are already on a safer OS to browse the web.
Just keep in mind that on Linux you will use a user account with no privileges to do changes
to the system. This is one of the reasons why Linux is safer.

I still remember my first Slackware 7 install.
I got a kernel panic after 2 or 3 boots =(

Ok thanks for your answers everyone. I think i 'll go through the learning curve and try linux sometime soon. I mean with bitcoins close to 1000$ i 'll need as much security as i can get  :P

If you want to play with a user friendly distro I would suggest ubuntu.

You can download it, put it on a flash drive with the Persistence option so you can save things and boot from it and play around.

Actually i 've done that already but only tried it a few times just to get a feeling but with the "try it without installing" option
I 'm not sure that i noticed a persistence option. I 'll check again.

I think I agree with the OP here.  But talking OSs on the internet is a little like talking politics at a family reunion. 

Linux does have one advantage - security from the start. It is very difficult to lock down a windows system and still have off-the-shelf software work correctly. If you make user profiles non-executable, you've successfully broken Chrome and other stupid software.

Linux, however, has compartmentalized user security; even beyond user and group permissions, you can encrypt home directories, so software that is run on one user account has little chance of escaping to or accessing other user file systems or the system. This allows one to simply use different credentials for user tasks like browsing the infectious web vs running secured processes like a web server or financial software.

I use Ubuntu for my desktop, and for my mining. I also have a Raspberry Pi that I'm working on moving all of my stratum-proxy and bfgminer tasks to.
(:

I agree op, if you're using windows at least get some protection. I reformatted recently because I found out I had a keylogger for 2 days on my computer. I found the data file in appdata/roaming and it had all of my chat conversations, browsing history, passwords, ETC. MBAM is a pretty good service, make sure you're running something like it.

Windows XP.

• It is sufficient to run almost all altcoin clients if you are not mining (they are nearly built for Win32 by default.)
• You can assign a separate VM to each client (no real opportunity for malware.)  The overhead of a WinXP VM is not too large.  Just don't give it write access to the host HDD!
• Fast User Switching is harder to exploit than sudo or UAC because sessions/processes are isolated
• There is no other OS so well-debugged for so long that is still having new software developed for it.  Comparable Linux/BSD/OSX versions (i.e. those with no new features for a decade) are long abandoned.

Linux is much better than windows 8, that's for sure. Unfortunately I didn't know how to install all the drivers onto linux for my rig so I had to go with windows. I hate it with a passion. The home screen looks like it belongs on an xbox/tablet.

Anyone care to advise a point and click method of installing the AMD drivers on linux?

I think it is time for me to take a look at linux as Win7 is gonna be old news in the coming months if it isn't considered so already, heh.  Will follow this thread so I can look it over when I have a bit more time but thanks for sharing the info. 

That can go down to hell really fast. ;D

On my computer I have windows 7, 8, and ubuntu. I use ubuntu mainly (haven't switched to windows in 3 months). Ubuntu should recognize most drivers and install them for you.

Aren't windows xp obsolete and abandoned from microsoft already? I mean no updates not anything. I remember reading a roadmap about future support of os by microsoft but i can't seem to find it now.

EOL is April 14, 2014

Despite this lots of people still use XP =(

There is nothing wrong with XP. Yes no more updates after April of 2014 but it is a solid OS.

XP's network stack could be easily manipulated to do sniffing functions, you didn't have to worry about UAC. Besides 98, Microsoft got it right with XP.

7 is nice, but compatibility for older programs is problematic, 64 bit support is great for newer systems with more than 3 gig of ram, and the fact you can run 32bit programs is nice on the 64bit version.

agree,linux ftw.

Sure Linux is more solid.

Just one point: if you are mining with GPUs though, and want to tweak things like GPU voltage and such I think this comes to be harder on Linux than on Win since there are not as much utilities / drivers for this.

Windows is good just for games, but using Bitcoin wallet there? no thank you

I still know people who are using XP and they still love it!

Whenever I have to use any windows based programs, I have a XP vm just for it. Hell, I would still use 98se if I could.

I approve of the opening post, but I do not think it is a good idea to use banks as role models for this purpose. One of the points of cryptocurrencies is to be able to avoid them.

I using XP, it is best Windows ever, especially on low end computers.

Have you heard of the windows pattern? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Windows%20Pattern (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Windows%20Pattern) ;D

I must agree with this pattern, Windows 8 sucks as well

Yep. Cant wait till windows 9. Hopefully they keep up this pattern!

Would running on linux actually help with your hashrate? Like for Nvidia would it increase it a tiny bit?

I would guess so, since linux is a lighter OS and doesnt have crap running in the background.

That's very interesting, it seems that linux seems to be the preferred OS for more developed computing uses.

An OS that uses linux is Ubuntu, and Ubuntu also seems to have the advantage of encrypting disk space to make things safer.

And honestly the whole intention behind the OS seems to be based off an intention of compassion and virtue and sharing,

just looking up the definition of the word ubuntu may show that.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim though?

I agree, linux has always been generally considered better for things involving a lot of computing power, it's just less user friendly so even though users would be better off using it they're not willing to make the switch from what they're used to.

Standard fresh install of XP Pro is ~2GB

Fresh install of a xfce can be within 500 MB

But if you need evidence then you obviously haven't used linux / unix that much to actually know.

A live cd of xbuntu is 600 MB, that is the full os being able to run, yes packages are in a compressed environment, but you can't stick a full install of XP on a cd and expect it to run.

If you truly want to learn about linux, go back to the early days. I remember sitting at my desk having to recompile my kernel because I needed to add a driver for something, and a gui, you had to install that yourself.


Ubuntu is a flavor of Debian. All they did was take Debian and spice it up and make it look pretty.

Now if you want to stick to roots and go with something nice, but not a flavor of another distro, go with Fedora Core. Fedora started as Red Hat, then Red Hat became the enterprise distro and Fedora Core became the public distro.
That pattern has held true to the Windows 3 days, god I miss my Windows 3.1 machine, I must be getting old.

Me personally, I love Red Hat / Fedora Core but people who are releasing programs are sticking to debian distros. Yes you can repackage the .deb's to .rpm's but sometimes it is easier to just go with the flow.

In fact I have XP instalation CD and it works fine even without running updates.

I have no hard proof, but my computer performs WAYYY faster on ubuntu than windows, and overheats less.

That is an installation cd, can you put that disk in your computer and play on xp before you install it?

My statement stands, please read it again if you didn't understand it fully, but I will help out. You cannot have a live cd of xp under 2GB, I am not talking about XP PE either, that isn't the full os.

Your righ, but how is the live cd of xbuntu secure without patches when you connect to the internet ?

I tried ubuntu before, and it was too complicated to get anything other than steam and the other normal apps to run on it for me. I like windows because its a middle of the road OS, half user friendly, half technical if you want to edit things.

ubuntu is more secure on that live cd then your fresh install of xp any day.

You want a secure out of the box solution, let me introduce you to: Lightweight Portable Security http://www.spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm

I do this for a living, I build linux, apple, and microsoft servers.

I had to build a secure network in Iraq with limited resources when we deployed. We couldn't connect to the satellite without the secure network so I went with linux to get us started then migrated to Windows server for compatibility.

I felt exactly like you, but after a week I got everything running!

But what about the games ?  Gamers still need Windows :P

I stopped playing video games (I have a xbox but dont use it). If you have a extremely powerful computer then you can use WINE to open windows app.

Good luck running iTunes

Hah, iTunes. Thats funny. I have Spotify Premium.

Die hard linux users won't touch itunes, they are android for life users.

I was using android, but recently got an iphone. I have a spare (old) mac that I never use.

Tried to use, but can't really get use to it. Any suggestions? :)

What exactly is the purpose of that program compared to the alternatives? I really do not understand why I would want to have it.

What are your most used apps? I struggled with it for a week and then finally got settled in. There is a stack overflow section for ubuntu so if you have any questions you can ask there.

Which program? WINE?

Only reason I have my apple products is because apple essentially makes you have them if you are a developer. You can only do so much in the emulator, but you need the iphone or ipad to do real world test.

Plus the apple tv's are nice for the kids

Ya, Im going to start developing an iphone app for my aunt soon. I prefer google tv over apple tv any day.

iTunes, of course. Wine has no real alternatives.

Well iTunes is a stupid program that you are FORCED to use by apple if you have an iPhone. Any app beats iTunes. I prefer spotify because for $10 you can listen to any song online or offline!

It sure sucks if you are a developer. That is why I prefer web apps, even if the tech is not there yet.

Tell me about it.

When I develop for android I can just email the apk to people for testing.

iOS devices, shit, I have to load certificates on each device and manually load the file either from xcode or have them on my wifi. Apple is aggravating when it comes to developers.

Let's not forget, android one time fee to become a developer. Apple, yearly 99 fee for ios.

Adobe softwares, LoL others I can get alternatives, the most important one is drivers...nvidia nvs won't work. Took me days before I figure out how and I forgot :p

If it is photoshop, gimp is a good alternative, and for nvida

Linus Torvalds: Nvidia, Fuck You! http://youtu.be/iYWzMvlj2RQ (http://youtu.be/iYWzMvlj2RQ)

And then they overprice their products.

That they do, but people eat them up.

Since I'm a graphic designer, photoshop is a must... :P
I like what he said, nvidia is stupid not to make drivers for linux. Wish there are more laptop with AMD gpu in it, mantle XD

Thats what makes apple go up. Then they sue other companies which stops them from advancing.

You can use wine for photoshop.

isn't only photoshop cs3 or 4 is support?

??? Wine is an application that runs windows application regardless of what version it is.

...then I'll give it a try later

If you dont want to partition it, you can run a VM to make sure it works first.

I remember I had an older (2006) hp laptop that had nvidia on it. I installed Fedora Core on it, and luckily nvidia had linux drivers, you had to compile them, but they provided them.

Took me a while to get it to work correctly but I did. I have a computer right now that I would love to put linux on, but it has a nvidia card in it, screw that, 7 it is.

Thats what sucks. Its takes a long time to get used to but once you do linux becomes the best OS out there. Love the fact that ssh is built into terminal (unlike windows).

Oh I love linux, have ever since I was introduced in the 90's. Unfortunately my job requires windows for domain functions, even though I am I.T. I could get away with running linux on my laptop, I enjoy my job to much to get caught in a suprise audit

The point is that we should be able to understand that as Windows is needed to run Photoshop and play games, Linux is needed to handle your wallets and other important stuff. So, make a dual boot and access the os you want.

I did that for a long time but now I just cannot boot other thing that my Debian 7.

Regarding the "enter linux complexity" story. We all went through that. We learned to think and understand computer tasks using
the Windows methods so its natural to be a little confused at the begining.

There is a big reward for those that keep trying till they get things working though!

Linux is beautiful, you just need to get there ...

I completely agree with you. I have windows 7/windows 8/Ubuntu all on the same computer and a spare Mac.

Linux alone will not save you. You must know how to set it up properly + how to behave on internet

Yes, make sure you have 2 factor installed for EVERYTHING and your phone is on you at all times. One bad habbit I used to do (which is highly unsafe) was that I put phone numbers as my google voice so I only have to login to my email which makes it easy to hack. Now I have all phone numbers linked to my google voice account, BUT I put 2 factor on my email and I have 10 spare keys on a peivce of paper just in case my phone runs out of battery.

Obviously but it's better if most of the hackers don't target your os  ::)

Linux users are lucky since windows is an easier target.

But if the linux becomes ultimate mainstream for all things bitcoin then it will be target #1

Also with all those distros floating around - temptation is high to inject some malware into some smaller distro. Or some essential piece of software on github. No risk of that in a windows/mac.


Also I've recently tried latest xubuntu for one of my miners, and was surprised that it needs 5+ gb space, and could not do networking out of the box. Linux driver support sucks. There's no one to work on the kernel for free.

With ubuntu, ALL of the drivers (except for some windows only stuff) work!

Actually no. At work we have one old pc, with onboard Via gpu, which is not supported by linux Xwindow (or what do you call it) so only terminal available for you there.
Another machine - it would get stuck on updates (although in that case it was mint, not xubuntu)

And two days ago - one of my, quite contemporary, mobos with your average realtek ethernet controller would fail to connect straight away after install.

And you can use a live cd to try linux before installing it. Linux is actually rather smooth as well...I recommend trying mint.

Someone like my grandmother using linux is probably just as insecure as she is on Windows. 
Nothing but education will save you. 

I was talking about my computer. My computer just has on-board intel graphics and it supports it.

I do not share this argumentation.
While it might be true that if Linux becomes the most used OS tomorrow more people will start working on viruses for it, Linux itself is a "I wont do this for you" operating system. I think this is where most Windows users get stuck. Just think on it: on windows you google for an app download it and install it by clicking. On Linux you search for a package (most of the time on you distro packages web), you get it, you go to console, you ask for su permissions to install with a command (apt) and then install it if you have all the packages.

So, it would be fair to say that while on Windows you can get shit installed by browsing the web, on Linux you are going to do some work to get your virus working.

Of course that Linux itself is not enough. If you use dictionary passwords you might be victim of brute force and this is not related to you os.
Regarding the "Viruses included on small distros". This is a myth. Linux code is open and nobody includes new features on a Distro without being sure of intentionallity. This sounds like what Microsoft would tell to its Windows users to keep them afraid and far away from Linux.

You're right about "I wont do this for you" OS. Even more - "I won't have correct software or driver support for you" - comes to mind. If you click "agree" on every popup (if you even get those) while using internet explorer, then you deserve a virus. Also there's UAC which surves it's purpose.

Linux is good for servers, liveCD's and as a little playthingy OS maybe.

I'm definitely using it.  I'd recommend it to anyone.  I learned how to code because of it and now I make a living that way.

Yes, Linux is definately the way to go for security and better control and debugging. Windows may be user friendly, but it is a pain to debug anything on Windows. I have spent wasted hours on a problem that was not really there, just because Windows decided it will not work normally for that day. The coin I am currently mining still has no Linux client, but as soon as one is released I will chnge to Linux.

Totally agree. If you want to keep windows, get a raspberry pi ($25) and keep your btc on there. If it crashes, you can just take out the ad card.

thanks for the info!

I remember I had an older (2006) hp laptop that had nvidia on it. I installed Fedora Core on it, and luckily nvidia had linux drivers, you had to compile them, but they provided them.

Took me a while to get it to work correctly but I did. I have a computer right now that I would love to put linux on, but it has a nvidia card in it, screw that, 7 it is.

Hey atelast you have windows 7. Windows 8 is crap. What's funny is that hp is bragging that they are now selling windows 7 computers instead of windows 8.

or using a permanent offline windows pc only

Any OS offline is safe. For online, you are best off with linux.