Bitcoin Forum

I hope not too many people are taking this "fork" seriously.

Come on. Taking the BTC source code, changing almost nothing but the name, and trying to compete with Bitcoin (after mining 500K coins for himself, of course)?

It's not like he's actually solving any problems with this rollout. If anything, several problems with BTC (inflation, for example) are being made *worse*.

And people are falling for it?

To better illustrate what's wrong with IXcoin, try to picture what *would* be a welcome rollout. Say a developer came up with a fork, but also had a business partner who had lined up several websites/programs/an exchange/trust system/reviews system/etc. and rolled it all out at once. Then you might be tempted to think, "Hey, maybe this will be just what we need! This could take over where Bitcoin left off!"

But this fork is a total wannabe in every way. I don't know why anyone's buying into this nonsense.

Here is a post someone else wrote, which sums up the situation nicely. I will only add that "Thomas Nasakioto" is a re-arrangement of the letters in "Satoshi Nakamoto":


I mean, is he claiming to be Satoshi? He better be. You just don't have two guys with the same letters in their names independently coming up with BTC and IXC.
Sorry, I don't believe in those kind of coincidences. I'm not a fool.

I mean, the British Pound and US Dollar weren't invented by two guys named George Franklin and Franklin George!

I think it is you who is taking IXcoin too seriously!

I thought about that -- just starting a thread about it gets people talking about it. I know what you mean.
I certainly don't intend that!

If this is a tempest in a teapot, I apologize.

If you don't like it - just ignore it.

Wow...

All these stupid threads about a new fork, wether it changed just the name or not is pointless.

Do you understand the concept of free market? If people want to use ixcoins and make profit or lose money then its up to them.

Thus far ALOT of people have been profiting from ixcoins, not just the creator.

If I start up a new fork and call it bitixcoins and people want to trade it, its up to them and I have the freedom to decide wether I want to invest even 5minutes to create such a fork.

You will be surprise what people see as value were you can have just the name ixcoin meaning potentially more to alot of people than the name bitcoin and it doesnt matter which came to be first. Only a namechange can have a bigger impact or a greatest downfall, no one can say for sure right now.

#2
The pre-mining of 580K Coins was just too much.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9859/eb6c.jpg

I doubt anyone will take it to seriously. Maybe some miners will just because they can mine 'bigger' numbers. But like you said..it didn't change anything but the name.
I've mined namecoins (because I like the idea behind them) but haven't done so with ixcoins, I don't really see the point.

The pre-mined coins were held so bounties could be offered to promote and expand iXcoin

https://ixcoin.org/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Bounties

Even if he pays all the bounties as promised there is still a +380K overhead, the bounties sum up to ~200K.

Which only adds up to 228,500 ixcoins. He kept 351,500 for himself! (you really think he'll even pay a quarter of those bounties?)

He's got 2,109 equivalent in bitcoin at .006 exchange rate. Bitcoins are trading at 11.5 at the moment, so he's holding about $25,000. That's not to mention that tens of thousands he mined after announcing. The only person benefiting from ixcoins is the Nasakioto, who only ripped off bitcoin and added minor changes. I've got to hand it to him, he knows how to profit big off suckers.

IXCoin is fine.
You are just making free publicity...

The software is open-source and everyone can start a new blockchain...
If you don't like the chain, don't use it...

seems you didn't 'add' much :P

He did change something, two numbers.

The number of blocks to be solved in specified time.

And the number of coins per block.

The consequences of said changes are:

A much larger block chain (storage wise), and the 21million limit will be hit much earlier than with bitcoin.

Looking at it from a free market point of view, comparing two products, bitcoin and....ixcoin.

What are the advantages of ixcoin:Get's to leverage bitcoin technology base, essentially it would be trivial for people who are already accepting bitcoin to accept ixcoin.

what are the dissadvantages: no one is really accepting ixcoin yet, massive initial inflation, steep drop when minting ends.

What are the dangers of holding ixcoin? Apart from their possible loss of value (if there is any there already) the possible (probable?) collapse of the network when minting limit is hit, or even if the network is abandoned before this event.

Sure go ahead with ixcoin, but don't say you haven't been warned.

seems it reached a peak of about 0.009 btc and is now hovering between 0.004 and 0.005.

Better i make gabicoin then...

You will see at the bottom of the page it also says - 'Please add your bounties here' (I'm guessing this means more monies will be needed to cover these bounties?). As I understand it it has already been stated publicly that some of the remaining coins have been set aside for additional promotional purposes.

Btw, didnt Satoshi mine Bitcoins before releasing it to the public? And what were these coins used for?

This.  I don't understand why this infinitely simple concept is so hard for some people to wrap their heads around.

That's what everybody told me about Bitcoin.

When you're talking about an open-source alternative currency, forks are NOT a good thing.

If you're talking about software, electronics, etc. then competition is great. The more the merrier.

But Bitcoin is already around -- it's open source, not owned by one company. We should *want* everyone's efforts concentrated on one electronic currency. Competition is a bad thing in a case like this.

It's less like Verizon vs AT&T and more like VHS vs Beta or HD-DVD vs Blu-ray. Until one prevails, everyone's going to "wait and see". You can't have umpteen open formats competing for the same 5,000 people.

I could care less about people forking around but if you're going to complain about it.. do it on their forums. We've got enough worthless threads here.

Mind if I use your quote in my sig later on?

And anyone care to answer my question about the coins Satoshi mined b4 the release of Bitcoin?

Just wait for it! pattycoin is on it's way! ;D

gabicoin will be the best, no doubt about that

If Satoshi did not want multiple block chains to start he would have made it closed source. This is open source and the free market. You can't stop either if people are willing to contribute or mine.

From the point of view of creating an alternate currency, IXCoin is stupid and a clearly profit minded creation by the founder, don't bring up the bullshit about bounties, that's just window dressing. It is not at all advantageous to have a competing virtual currency when there is not yet any establishment for usage of any virtual currency yet.

From the point of view of a miner, we follow the money trail, bitcoin mining was created with that idea in mind, and ixcoin is taking advantage of the culture arising out of that. If it's profitable to mine ixcoins, why shouldn't miners mine it?

From the OPs point of view though, I don't think it's a bad idea for people to reiterate to the masses that are willing to listen that IXCoin is total nonsense, and far more of a runaway train than bitcoin, with nothing to provide anyone except more numbers, and even less likely to go anywhere.

So, everyone is right in their own regard.

EDIT: Looking at the numbers though it is currently about 1/3rd as profitable to mine ixcoins as bitcoins at the moment. So, good luck with that.

Holy shit... hell hath frozen over..

I kinda agree with Angulus this time... 

Im going to go check on a local farm to see if any pigs are flyin....

Yup good luck with that! I cashed in my ixcoins for over 200 btc =).

Sell! Sell! Sell!

what is there really to say? this was a predictable event that was bound to happen and expect
more clones to pop up in just a few hours.

the people shouting for joy about how much money they made simply found a greater fool to sell to.
at least bitcoin was an original idea that had merit and thus people trying it out have reasons beyond and above
just monetary profit if they desire those goals.

at first i found the drama interesting but now i just do not care.. this will probably be my last post about it...
unless of course it succeeds and i will state i was wrong months/a year from now in a future post.

BIG DIFFERENCE between early Bitcoin miners and early IXcoin miners:

Bitcoin miners might have been in it for the virtual currency/anonymous, global payment aspect -- after all, if they were after any of those things, BTC was the only option.

Whereas today IXcoin miners can't say the same thing. They can always go with Bitcoin.

I don't really understand why everybody is bashing ixcoin. They are very clear of their intent - generate all coins faster, but keep the rest intact. I think this is absolutely excellent - we have a single difference that we can study. And possibly a final argument in the "inflation-deflation" debate. I want the ixcoin project to catch on so that we see it reach maturity in 2015. It will be interesting.

And no, I don't think competition is bad. As long as there are users of both currencies, there will be exchanges and people will have choices. Choices are never bad.

Whether the guy who started ixcoin has a lot of coins stashed, whether he plans to cash in and screw the users, I don't know. It's also irrelevant, IMHO. In the end, people will use (or not) ixcoin because it is useful to them, not based on someone else's proffits.

Ultimately the better player will win. We can look at these competitor chains as our challengers, and we can only defeat them by becoming better ourselves.

Its not a case of being better. IXCoin is not in competition with Bitcoin. There's no reason the 2 currencies cant exist side by side as silver does with gold.

Edit: btw IXCoin is selling for as little as 0.00279900 atm. The lowest price you could get them for only 2 days ago was 0.00649900. Get your orders in before the price rise...

A number of flaws with that analogy, silver and gold are not currencies. Silver and gold both have separate qualities that make them useful on their own (industrial applications and so on). Both have physical properties which make them intrinsically valuable, and are distinct from each other.

None of these are true of Bitcoin/IXcoin, both are attempting to become currencies, they have no real intrinsic value aside from their suitability as currency (by design), and there is nothing distinctive between the two, other than the rate at which they are generated. Hence they are of course going to be in competition with each other.

LOL, Ribuck is as usual hitting a bulls eye having said no more than a handful of words.

I personally, just love IXcoin and it's ilk. Look at the difficulty decrease. We need more of these "mee too" currencies so taht the short term speculators have a new playground while me and my clients and other BTC miners have more bitcoins. I'd say it is a win-win.

Satoshi went public right away, I think, although there was not much interest. 73% of the coins mined in 2009 ("by satoshi and friends") where never moved. See here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37333.msg459338#msg459338. So he and the other early early miners either kept or lost the majority of their coins.

Or crashes to hell?

Maybe. I dunno, you buying any lol? I know at the very least Im getting me some for a rainy day in hell ;)

There's a lot more differences than just the changes to the parameters: IXCoin is nothing new, it can use BTC as currency for exchange, whereas bitcoin has to use fiat currencies to get value in.

You can't compare 2 slightly different seeds if you put them in completely different soil.

The only people defending this are the people who signed up for bounties as moderators etc...

I have yet to see a 'regular' user  recommend ixcoin to anyone

Everything about this reeks of a desperate attempt to pump&dump, then withdraw everything and watch the currency collapse

Wait..whos to say the price of IXCoin will always be pegged to BTC  ???

Either I don't correctly understand what you're saying (English is not my mother tongue) or you are wrong. Who said you can't exchange ixcoin to fiat currencies?


I don't recommend it to anyone. I don't use it myself, I actually only found out about it this morning (I'm a BTC newbie too). But I still would like to see how this experiment will end - reaching the coins limit and inflation/deflation issues that will appear. This is something that we will not see with BitCoin any time soon. Before I decide to base my small IT business on BitCoin, it would help me to know what would happen. I started to consider ixcoin as BitCoin or steroids :)

You cant atm but whos to say you wont be able to later?


Yup. Good way of putting it. Didnt get in early on Bitcoin? No problem - IXCoin gives you a second chance. But you have to get in early. As it stands atm IXCoin is worth nothing but it is exchangeable for Bitcoin and transfers are fast. Nows your chance to be an early adopter. And 'early adopter' means 'early adopter' - not "oh look the price is going up think I might get on" lol

I was trying to say IXCoin has the advantage of being able to bootstrap via BTC. Much easier, as we all know, than having to build exchanges that handle USD/EUR/... and also much easier for people to get money into. I didn't mean to imply it's not possible to trade IXC directly to fiat. I doubt it'll be done, though, because IXCoin is a scheme to get money from people. BTC is just the easiest to use, because everyone susceptible to this scam probably has bitcoins.

You were correct sir. Price hit 0.0003btc down from 0.006btc earlier in the same 24 hour period.

Me too... but ixcoin just has pump and dump written all over it

Was pumped up, now just smells like dump.

They are competing for our attention, the one with more eyeballs will most likely have the highest value.

Won't bitcoins always have more eyeballs as any inquiry about ixcoin will either come from bitcoin or lead back to bitcoin?

Like I said -- Bitcoin is alive and well, and IXcoin offers nothing to the party.

IXcoin isn't solving a single problem that Bitcoin itself has. What, does Bitcoin not have enough inflation? I disagree. I think the coins produced are PLENTY. If every miner sold what he produced, the price would drop $1 every week (it was for a while there). Fortunately the price of Bitcoin, many miners are in it for the long haul, keeping their BTC until the price goes much higher.

For example, IXcoin doesn't come with an ecosystem of auxiliary businesses & websites that make doing business with Bitcoin easy, risk-free, painless, etc. Now THAT would be something useful!

Quite possibly. But then iXcoin isnt trying to compete with Bitcoin.

Compete or die, or just die. That works too.

I like how people ignore statements like "oh its .0027 buy in now!" right before the price drops to .0003 heh.

What a foolish statement.  What is it doing?

ixcoin or I0coin or whatthehellever is ABSOLUTELY trying to compete with Bitcoin.

IXCoin is a scheme to shovel bitcoin into the founder's pockets, which sadly seems to have worked well. As the promoters themselves said: It's not a competition to bitcoin per se. It's competing for hashing power, though, which is - as has been pointed out by many - a good thing for the miners of bitcoin.

I'm a regular user (though I wouldn't turn down a 5K bounty to be a mod :P) and I mined them and sold them on the Bitparking exchange and came away with something like 3.5x what I would have made in Bitcoins if I had been mining Bitcoins the entire time.  Now I'm on to I0coin, but it doesn't look as promising.  I was mining as soon as the Windows app was released but at this point I only have about 200 I0coins :(

Do explain what is it that Ixcoin is trying to do! We are all eager to listen/read to that exquisit plan!

Obviously the same scam works only half as well the second time around. Though you must have a tiny hashrate to get only 200 I0coins in 12hours. Even at the very start when I was getting around 85% stales on a pool (was suspicious of trojans from the coind) I got 200i0Coins in about an hour at the starting difficulty. When things started to smooth out around 256 difficulty the coins really started to flow.

Sadly however the price dropped faster than anticipated, and currently is hovering near parity with bitcoin mining. Next difficulty or if it drops below .002268, you will mine i0coins at a loss, and the party will be over. But was fun while it lasted, even if it didn't last as long as Ixcoin.

Pump & dump maybe?

I'm working with about 1300 MH/s and I had found 80+ blocks early on.  Then, like a lot of others have reported, my entire balance was wiped and all my blocks were invalidated.  So I gave up and went back to mining BTC for a while until difficulty 256.  Even then I had like 90%+ stales.

Chasing "higher gains" with another fork only makes sense if
A) you're unemployed, and your time isn't worth anything, or
B) You make less than $9 an hour, or
C) You have over 5 GH/s of mining capacity, and can easily configure where it points.

Remember, once you've set up your mining operation it takes very little time -- but when you start messing around with your rigs again, now you have an additional time investment.
If you "double" your $4 a day income, you're still spending 1 or 2 hours to make $4. For some of us, that simply isn't worth it. Making $4, $8, $12/day for no time investment (=Bitcoin mining) is a different matter.

With these pump & dump forks, you have to be right on top of it -- jump on, mine like hell, then jump off.

Really? Well same thing happened when IOUcoin was released yesterday apparently..

And for the mentally challenged in this thread that are asking about what iXcoin is trying to do - its not trying to do anything LOL. It is however simply another currency.

Gotta love pointless shit...  :D

That seems to be your forte. In fact - come to the think of it, I dont recall reading a productive post from you ever. So what IS your purpose in life? Or are you just an internet troll?

Exactly, and this one was the most productive post i've ever read from you.

Whatever clown..

I was talking about the I0Coin debut.  The Ixcoin debut actually worked pretty smoothly for me and I was able to mine about 50 blocks or something in the first day.  And I disagree that Ixcoin or I0Coins are currency.  You can't actually buy anything with them, like you can with Bitcoins.  They're abstracts used by speculators to obtain more Bitcoins.

At the moment yes your right. I agree. However I see it more as a 'currency in development'.

Yeah, unfortunately you had to make sure you were working with the correct blockchain, which was difficult. Part of the reason I hopped on a pool was because I knew that things were going to be batass crazy the first few hours, and wanted to at least get something out of difficulty 1. Was a wild time. I still ended up with a few thousands of i0coins after about 12 hours though.

People are funny though, there really is no pleasing them. I0Coins debut is hailed as "a huge fail" because 500Ghash+ hitting a difficulty 1 blockchain caused a huge load of problems. Yet when IXCoin was released at whatever difficulty it was released at (4096? I didn't really pay attention) people were complaining their heads off about the unfairness of releasing a blockchain that was already mined out. I'm sure if NextCoin is released with a starting difficulty of 4096 or wherever people will complain because they didn't get to mine at difficulty 1.

This.

Those who are coming up with these "forks" are perfectly fine with eroding Bitcoin's fledgling credibility while pursuing a goal of very short-term greed.  Just wait until the hedge fund types start getting into the mix. 

Wait...what?  They already have?

Do I need to remind everyone here that it's a zero sum game?

Nobody is producing finished goods after investing only Bitcoins -- wealth isn't being produced in this "economy" -- there are X dollars of real money sloshing about, and some people are losing and some are winning.

When 10 people make double income mining IXcoins or whatever, who is giving up an equal amount of money? All Bitcoin holders? Those who get stuck holding the bag with worthless IXcoins? Some combination?

The answer to that question is open to discussion, but it's 100% certain that we're in a zero sum game here.

Matthew

It would describe the reality of the situation if it were a closed system... whiiiich it's not. Oops!

Not to mention "real money" is a rather anti-bitcoin way of thinking. Wonder why "wealth isn't being produced" when people intentionally slant how they talk about bitcoin econ?

Anyway, it's fairly clear that ixcoin is more or less worthless, but it's not absolutely certain. Everything is in its infancy here, to look at what is going on now and say "Johnny definitely lost because he has <abc>coin" is sorta arrogant, not knowing what the future may hold for lil Johnny and his <abc>coin.

Nice strawman argument, but try again.  I did not say x Greedy Impulse is better than y Greedy Impulse.  

What I did say is that these copy-cats are making Bitcoin more confusing and more prone to shenanigans.  It's obvious what Ixcoin and I0coin are trying to do.  
A person does not go into a store and whip out 5 USD, 0.50 EUR, and 0.163 GBP for a pair of $5.99 sunglasses.

"Dang it, you missed out on the ground floor of Bitcoin?  Well, get a second chance!  Get in on PoopCoin and start off mining 'em twice as fasterer, then trade 'em in for mucho BTCs, baby! WINNING!"

Some people aren't into Bitcoin for any mass profit other than to make a few coins (using hardware they already had) to trade for goods/services online in an anarchic, "Fuck you, PayPal." kind of way.  
Others are gamers who already had kick-ass GPUs who just want to put their hardware to use when not killin' and maimin' Nazis.
Some are just into the propellerheadism of it all.

It always cracks me up when someone talks of needing to pay off their 50-GPU rig in x months.  Dollar $igns in their eyes.

oh shit forealz?  you like money?

yeah, we should hang out.

http://files.sharenator.com/Idiocracy_Money_RE_Only_19_95-s410x224-28024.jpg

That's a very good point...  >:(

Actually it's not really a good point. "Encryption based project" is an incredibly stupid description of bitcoin, although I agree it might have been a good idea to implement the existing wallet encryption code that exists in bitcoin code. Nobody is perfect though.

If someone has access to your wallet.dat, he can also easily install a keylogger.

I'm thinking once the bitcoin difficulty gets way too high, people will gladly switch over to the easier difficulty of IXcoin or i0coin...  That's why I'm mining both.

I remember a presentation or podcast (i think it was Gavin's) that they said that in the future they may have bitcoin currencies for different parts of the world... asia, africa, europe etc...

They made a bit of sense, and these new ixcoins et al may just be a good test-bed to see if all that is really worth it.

From a security perspective though, i think this would actually create a whole bunch of weak cousins to Bitcoin and be taken out one at a time by the big guns of whomever doesn't like what is going on here.

It is super interesting to see this starting and seeing where it will end!

I LOVE BITCOINS and all it's cousins too!!! I just hope the family doesn't get taken out by an evil OVERLORD... I don't know this, but from all the cool conspiracy movies out there, it seems to me that these evildoers exist, so security is a concern, and so bitcoin is the toughest nut to crack at the moment.  I just hope that ixcoin will not be used to chip away at bitcoin's hard shell!!!

Gggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhh

I had to comment on this 1.................

Most people who have been unfortunate enough to be "ripped off" can blame themselves..................

It's probably happened to them many other times in life with actual $USD......

What's the old saying about a fool and his money?

BTC Forever!

DKN

i am surpised the price is still above .001 but i do see some transactions below that.
i say.. in about two weeks the price will be .0005.. and interest will start being lost.
i0coins will follow the same path into obscurity.

You're right as rain!

How else could it turn out? You can't SPEND the darn things *anywhere*. It was all just a scam from the beginning. Most people -- including some of the miners who mined the coins -- saw it coming a mile away.

Your argument, "bad security is better than no security" is not generally accepted.

http://selberg.org/2006/09/11/only-thing-worse-than-no-security-bad-security/
http://dotfuturemanifesto.blogspot.com/2006/05/bad-security-is-worse-than-no-security.html
http://www.secure-itnet.com/security.html
http://www.securityspot.info/node/9

There have also been quite a few posts in the forum explaining specifically why bad wallet security is much worse than no wallet security.

To put it simply, it leads people to think they're secure -- lulling them into a false sense of security.

I thought the whole point of a beta program was to release something that had the core functionality and then
over the next year or two you refine it to a full release. So wallet security would not be a core concern and would
naturally come in later on. If you were designing the program are you telling me you would have a 1000 bullet points
of features to program in and you would concentrate on wallet security before having stable core functionality?

Of course not. Those are things you do once the program is actually being used and the demand is there. So at
that point you do it right instead of a rush hack job that will have to be redone later on.

But hey.. that is just me.

LOL why don't you tell us all how much BTC you invested into dixcoins?

Lovely market value of a high at 0.0095btc now at 0.007btc.

LAWLz

Ignore it? Nah. ;D

Cheap? The rate you bought them at must have been about 0.006btc.

Now they are at like 0.0007btc each.

You are right they were very cheap! You just misread the price tag and bought at the top.

LAWL

Yes offer worthless copy-cat coins as bounties so people can do your dirty work. trade their time and effort (worth something) for dixcoins which have almost zero value.

Great explanation of why people should invest.

Why stop at premining 580k coins when you could have premined 5,800,000 dixcoins?


 :D

Now hovering between 0.0006 and 0.0008 btc. FAIL MARKET.

And 7 days later your predictions were FAIL. Price never went above 0.00649900 after your post here.

In fact they have been trading at an average of about 0.0008 btc each.

Yes silver can exist side by side with gold but also dogshit exists at the current time as gold does too. Ixcoins = dogshit.

LOL your predictions fail!

Guess I was right Oldminer.  ;D

How's that investment of BTC into ixcoin at 0.00649 btc per ixcoin going for ya?

Based purely on numbers you lost at least 80% of your trade when buying at the time of your post here.

 :o

Let's peg ixcoins to dogshit. I'll give you 10 pile of dogshit from my neighbors dog for 200,000 ixcoins.

LOL  :P

Oldminer this post you put up here shows exactly the motives of yourself and Thomas Nasakioto (your alias) of why you are pushing ixcoins.  ::)

The fact that IXcoin is being taken seriously is hilarious.

- The creator kept it private while be mined over 500,000 coins so he could use them to promote/grow/bribe.
- It's literally being marketed as a "chance for people who missed being an early adopter of bitcoin to get in on this" (greed)
- It's setup to payout faster, making people more 'money' for starting now

IXcoin is LITERALLY a get rich quick scheme in which the creator took bitcoin and deformed it to feed into peoples greed (specifically his own). The only person who stands to make a lot of money of IXcoin is it's creator. Period.

well it's still quite alive, the good old IXC!

~feel the signal!~

~CfA~

Don't know why you bumped this thread,  you ought to know better unless you just bought that account.   Nevertheless it's interesting to see what people were thinking about shitcoins 5 years ago.  I've never even heard of IXC.

I just read the first page of the thread on my phone while chilling in bed and I actually thought it was an interesting read haha ;D

This guy LOL
Mr. Carbon Coin  ::)

That logic is so bloody stupid..
Turning a blind eye to bad behavior makes you bad !

I could provide INFINITE examples and analogies showing this crystal clear.
..and yet ANOTHER on of you will simply post this same dumb fuck retort all over again soon enough anyway.