Bitcoin Forum

The title pretty much sums it up. This thread is for discussing any aspect of or related to the NXT decentralized asset exchange.

TestNXT instructions:
1. See CfB's post here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5072720#msg5072720).
2. Create testNXT account here: https://holms.cloudapp.net:6875
3. DO NOT use your main password account; create an account by using a new, unique passphrase.
4. You can download fmiboy's AE-enabled client here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5084677#msg5084677
5. Ask for testNXT in main thread or here; include your testNXT account number.
6. HAVE FUN!

Some links:
http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-asset-exchange
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5054385#msg5054385
http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Asset_exchange_operations

A brief explanation of decentralized exchange:
Exchanges like nxt, ripple, and mastercoin work with an idea called colored coins. So with a bitcoin any one bitcoin is the same as any other bitcoin. They are what we call fungible. Colored coins are intentionally not fungible. They are intentionally distinct and different from one another. Colored coins have a value attached to them. So for example, speaking in abstractions here, a colored nxt may have the value attached to it of "Nxtsky promises to pay 1 btc to who ever sends him this token, signed nxtsky". Now that token can be traded on a market.

Lets say betty wants to trade litecoin for bitcoin. She sends litecoin to "hanks litecoin gateway" with a message attached "bettys nxt address:blablabla". Hank will issue "X hankLTCTokens" and sends them to bettys nxt address. Betty uses these to fill the highest bid for on their orderbook thus gaining nxt. Next betty uses her nxt to fill the lowest ask on the orderbook for nxtskysXCPTokens. She sends her nxtskysXCPTokens to nxtskys nxt address with a message attached "bettys xcp address:blablabla". Betty waits for the xcp to arrive.

its obvious to most at first the disadvantages of what i just described. Its very complex compared to sending your coins to cryptsy but this is the cost of decentralization and decentralization comes with its own rewards. at some point in the future you will not just be buying any old random token. You will buy the ones issued by the guy who lives down the street so you can go there and pick them up in person.

Could you please add some links with info about this NXT feature ?

Sure ill try to dig some stuff up.

Is there a wiki (or just a webpage) that covers the basic functionality (that might be helpful to newcomers)?

Well, newcoming programmers could read http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Asset_exchange_operations, should be enough for them...

Nice - perhaps we also need something for specific clients (but of course that is up to the creators of those clients to create).

Any plan to add some of the core functionality of crowd funding? Ill give an example of what i mean.

Say my wife wants to start a bakery. So she issues tokens representing loaves of bread. She calculates that a loaf of bread is worth about 2 dollars and that she needs about 100,000 usd to start her bakery. So she takes 100,000 and divides it by 2 and issues 50,000 bread colored nxt tokens. She now wants to go out into the market to sell her tokens inorder to raise the money to start her bakery but she runs into a problem.

If wife only manages to sell say half of her tokens than 50,000 usd is not enough to start a bakery. She can not simply sell half a loaf of bread for each token instead of a whole loaf because half a bakery is enough to produce a single loaf. Rational investors realize this risk and so no one is willing to make the first leap. The project doesn't get funded even though there is willingness in the community.

Crowdfunding solves this by having a central authority collect promises to pay and refrains from charge anyone anything UNLESS the total amount of funding required to fund the project is raised.

The importance of this sort of functionality can not be overstated and it could definitely be built in to the protocol if it isnt already.

For test purposes, besides API, the 0.0.5 clieNxt client can be used:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5054385#msg5054385 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5054385#msg5054385)

Also nxtFreeRider, tool in python I haven't tried yet - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5080052#msg5080052 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5080052#msg5080052) . Unsure if it can hook to the testnet.

There was a similar thread for crowdfunding in bitcoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200952.0

crowdfunding functionality would be HUGE and can't be underestimated!

Can we do anything else in the testnet except issuing assets ? ( i know it is the client functionality issue ). I used fmiboy's client.

WTS RandomBux for testNXT. Its the most valuable thing in the universe so dont miss this once in a life time opportunity!

Very good news.

We could add some kind of "startIPO" transaction.

What's your test address, Anon? I still have over 100k left.

17567379695603145590 and where do i send the RandomBux?

how to get a testNXT account???

Nowhere. Donation. We need you testing, not monkeys like me. :)

Can I have some here NXT 4136941322087455927

10k sent.

Thanks...

- give me 2 !  (order placed)

I think it would be possible to Peg one Asset against the full Exchange price....almost like an Exchange Traded Fund....I think this is where DAC's could come in handy.

Yes. ETFs, Indexes, basket currencies, Spiders... WE WANT IT ALL :D

+1 That would be awesome.

i know. i want to know your address SO i can test the functionality. randomBux are not actually the most valuable thing in the universe.

NxtFreerider has a bot module built in....can;t wait to push the possibilities.

2!? what are you trying to do here? build a space station? no mortal man requires that sort of wealth

*edit* when you say order placed do you mean through the client? cuz im not seeing how to fill it.

Lol, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, apologies --

testNXT: 11369639962571180006

there is a link to where you download the client in the op. once you get it set up tell me your address and ill send you some text nxt. i have 68k atm so thats plenty to go around

sent, let me know when/if you see them show up on your end.

Hmm, might I have some testNXT at 10356543424426272552

Edit: hmmm, is there a testnet explorer out there?

sent

can anyone confirm receiving my RandomBux?

Also can anyone tell me an asset they have for sale. Ill buy some and you can confirm receiving my nxt.

Glad to see that the asset exchange feature is coming along. I have a proposal for the asset exchange feature. It can truly make decentralized peer to peer transactions/exchanges legitimate. I have been developing this idea ever since the asset exchange feature was first mentioned in NXT. Here it is.

Obviously there are dangers inherent within p2p transactions. The main issue here is the lack of trust, and the trust that is lost by not utilizing a third party. When transactions are non reversible, especially with no intervening regulatory figure, the willingness to exchange goods, services, or currencies becomes an issue. My idea to bypass these issues involves an escrow service, a rating system (similar to those on Ebay and Amazon) and the aliasing feature.

Lets say..

"Joe" wants to exchange something of value with "Sue" but Joe and Sue don't know each other. How can Joe trust Sue in receiving the item in question after Joe pays Sue? Well of course, they can utilize a third party escrow service, which will insure Joe will receive the item in question by transferring money to the escrow service.

But,

you may be asking, doesn't the escrow service defeat the purpose of a true p2p exchange? Yes it does. But it doesn't have to be permanent. This is where NXT can implement a rating based system attached to accounts or the alias' of an account. Think of it as someones credit score attached to a social security number. But within the NXT ecosystem, the credit score is a star based rating, and the social security # is the users NXT account.

Now revisiting Joe and Sue's transaction, they "must" now rate each other based on how well they serviced each other after the transaction has taken place. When Joe and Sue continue to build their "trust" rating with everyday users of NXT, they have the choice of opting out of the escrow service and they can start trading and exchanging with other users that have trustworthy reputable ratings. After people have built trustworthy ratings within the NXT ecosystem, users will now have a much better understanding of whom they are doing business with, and will establish the most efficient p2p exchange mechanism which no other
crypto-currency utilizes.  

I hope you developers see the potential of this system, especially in a p2p environment that exchanges things of value.

NXT:   5464489754473015994

And for those who think openly showing these ratings is an issue, there can be a protocol implemented which keeps these
ratings hidden within the code, but users can determine what level rating they are willing to conduct business with. If it doesn't conform to the users standards, then the protocol can block the transaction and offer a warning whether they will trust the second party or not. This can give its user some discretion.

waah ! jst been away for two hours and here is a runaway thread discussing the AE - will try to keep up.

Tomorrow and day after is BitcoinBerlin - can't miss that.

nxtFreeRider needs a LOT mor work, but the backend is really good. Been working full overdrive for over 4 weeks on it now, is getting MUCH easier now!

yup, it has a bot module that can easily be hooked up with scipy.

Plus, it can be used to load test NRS backends  ;D

cheers,
l8orre

Put up an asset: 0sand1s  assetID: 10956216527757194145

my client isnt showing any open orders

here is a bunch of open orders:

 
{'askOrderIds': ['439393689019899495']}
{'bidOrderIds': ['16448433101430960261', '14191221311280600257']}

derp, put one in ... the client is very very laggy for me ... taking quite a bit of patience to get things in place ...

yes, that is actually hardcoded into it at the moment ...

need to get up early tomorrow - good night!

the way I tested the ASSET BUY/SELL was using two accounts, so I knew the order details, ie the hit price that was required.

btw: will  build in some 'DISPLAY ORDER DETAILS' over the weekend!

nxtFreeRider has a button built in that will be used (when it is connected, that is) for doing a   'matchOrder', ie when you pull an order from the AE, you can create a matching counterorder onto your order slate, and then hit the order right away with one click.

Its not just you. Its very laggy for me also.

I can confirm that I have RandomBUX and that I sold 51 0sand1s and the appropriate amount of next has moved accordingly.

awesome! this is exciting!

where do you see asset balances?

In my mind I have another approach for trust, not using any rating system, using some "permanent account" to act like escrow.

1. Jon wants to sell "asset" for Sue for 100NXT
2. Jon push "sell", asset goes to "permanent account"
3. Sue push "buy", 100 NXT goes to "permanent account"
4. If both things arrived to "permanent account" then this account sends 100 NXT to Joe and "asset" to Sue.

"Permanent account" is only for naming, can't find better description for now :) Does it sound stupid? :)

I extrapolated from the amount of my assets I could transfer.  The client needs an interface that shows how many of what asset you have, it currently lacks that.

Edit: also I figured out how much RandomBux I had after hunting down the assetID number.

k i was just making sure i wasnt missing something

Yes, but how would you implement this for real world items.  When Jon pushes "Sell" he can't send 10 ounces of bullion through the internet, for example.  This could be a decent way to send/recieve other cryptocurrecies, but who has the access to the escrow account in order to send the received BTC when Sue pushes "Buy", for example?  It could be done for some things like other cryptos, but how do you make it p2p and secure?  Real world commodity trade may be difficult with this approach.

OK, this questions are for devs :) That was only conception.

Just to be certain, I did not mean "yes" in my post "Does this sound stupid?"  >_<

Its a decent idea, but there is an issue in who controls the asset accounts.  Unless I'm missing something, the only way we can send from the "permanent account" is if the account is controlled by a trusted escrow.  It's doable, but makes it less decentralized.

What might be interesting is to implement escrow right into the asset exchange, so that anyone can have a rated escrow account as well.  For example:

1. Jon wants to sell "asset" for Sue for 100NXT but has little or no rating.
2. Jon push "sell", and sends the asset to a linked and highly rated escrow account
3. Sue pushes "buy", 100 NXT goes to the linked and highly rated escrows account
4. If both things arrived to account then this account sends the 100 NXT to Joe and asset to Sue.
5. Upon successful transaction, the escrow, Jon and Sue all +1 each other for a good trade, thus developing rep for Jon, Sue, and the escrow.

Just an idea, still hard to implement the real world commodity part of the escrow, and maybe that would complicate it too much, but just an idea.  Still, I think ratings of some sort could establish trust.  As far as commodities go though, I think a system to easily implement dividends may prove useful, but I wonder the legal implications of such a thing.  But a full peer-to-peer trading platform would be excellent.


Edit: pardon me, I've derailed the thread to suggestions ... back to asset exchange testing.

Asset: XCP, asset ID 14640293627613982390

Anon, I haven't confirmed I've received RandomBux yet. The Java client + test server is painfully slow.

Perhaps you could repeat this link and some basic instructions in your first post in this thread.

testNXT instructions:

1. See CfB's post here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5072720#msg5072720).
2. Create testNXT account here: https://holms.cloudapp.net:6875
3. DO NOT use your main password account; create an account by using a new, unique passphrase.
4. You can download fmiboy's AE-enabled client here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5084677#msg5084677
5. Ask for testNXT in main thread or here; include your testNXT account number.
6. HAVE FUN!

Ok, I'm not native English speaker, but try to explain my thoughts:

This conception is suitable on things, which we can cross-chain in NXT. Most of them are crypto. "permanent account" or "escrow" I meant is hardcoded in protocol and serves only for collecting "assets" from both parties and release them to both parties. I mean if Sue push "buy", but Joe will not push "sell", assets goes back to Sue. If both push their buttons, escrow releases assets to both parties.

Or something like this :)

P.S. for a while I don't see how to use Asset Exchange for real world commodity :)

EDIT: "permanent account" or "Escrow" could be the similar account we have today: Genesis account or account, collecting fees and sending them to block forgers.

cool stuff! :)

18011833952203456566

can I have some? thx

Real world commodity exchange is possible. But escrow involves the buyer transferring funds to escrow, and the escrow account confirming to the seller that funds have hit the escrow account. From this point, the buyer and seller can communicate with each other and discuss where to ship the item to. When the item is received by the buyer, the escrow will release funds to the seller.

On a side note... I believe peer to peer exchange is a wonderful notion. But the downside is trying to find liquidity (whether its currency or commodity) in a decentralized structure. Centralization is a great mechanism for bringing buyers and sellers to a central location and this has what made centralized markets effective and efficient. Think about going back to the bartering days.


Who wants to start a Craigslist like website for the crypto-currency market? Buyers and Sellers can come together looking for (___________) and they can contact each other through NXT messaging and set up the transaction p2p. It is a great way to find goods and services in a decentralized structure.

What do you guys think?

I love the idea, but how is browsing a craigslist-style site different/better than just firing up your AE-enabled Nxt client and looking thru a list of open orders for the currency you want?

@V4V

The problem with that escrow is that the consumer must to notify receipt of the item, so the only way to ensure that the incompetent consumer doesn't say "Yay, it shipped, I must be done with the transaction!"  and disappear into a cave, is if the shipment is somehow verifiable by the escrow itself.

Okay, come to think of it, there are shipping options that notify of receipt of an item, and integrating this into an escrow protocol can't be too hard to automate.  A system like this could solve the physical commodities issue.  For currency though, this could get very legally grey.

But combine this with a system to invest and receive dividends in a one stop manner, and I could see a big future in Nxt AE.

Though, I must say, paying Nxt itself is probably the simplest way to transact real commodities, rather than through the AE.  I think the AE should focus more on intellectual commodities.  A simple dividend system within the protocol could do amazing things.  Tough I do worry there are legal issues that arise from trading intellectual commodities in a peer-to-peer environment.

Edit: Shameless plugging of my asset on testnet!  Buy Vannicke's Zeroes and Ones!  Best digital bits in town!  AssetID: 10956216527757194145

Also, the client 0.0.5e seems much faster than 0.0.5 for some operations, such as adding asks/bids and moving through some menus.

So, to all the brainiacs and big idea people out there --

How can aliases work in tandem with AE?

Let's say you've reserved a desirable alias 'foo'.

You issue 'foo' asset on AE.

Now what?

very good and useful.

One could theoretically use an alias to point to the AssetID of the asset they sell.

I'm very interested in this too, as well as other funding models. But I don't think it needs to be built into the protocol, could be done through service providers who can explore and tweak different models.

EDIT: And e.g. Kickstarter helps folks see who contributed to which tier, how many of each tier rewards are left, so that they know who to send which rewards too. Stuff like this should be handled outside the protocol.

20k sent, spread the testLove.

It's not currently possible to transfer an alias, if I understand your question.

Alias transfer could be added in the future.

here is a workable scenario:

1. bter,dgex,cryptsy, issue asset like :BTC, LTC, Dogecoin etc
   bter 10,000 btc
   dgex 10,000 ltc
   cryptsy 20,000,000 Dogecoin
( but nobody knows they have how many coin,if these coin can be  backed by Nxt, then no problem
    if issue 1BTC(token) , 20,000 nxt have been locked.

2. someone wants to sell nxt for btc etc
   place bit order, if match the ask order, then btc(token) is transfered to receiver account,nxt to seller account
3. more and more can place ask order with btc, etc.

1. because bter,dgex,btc-e are reputable, so you can trust them
  you can deposit your btc,ltc for btc token.
  or can withdrawl them.

This is a pretty amazing idea. Combining the ratings/alias concept with the idea of escrow makes for sort of a decentralized escrow service ability. Any NXT user could decide to become an escrow agent for both ratings and small transaction fees perhaps. Those with higher ratings could charge slighly higher fees and handle bigger ticket transactions. You could also create decentralized insurance in this way as well. Someone with a lot of NXT (or whatever) could insure assets, even crypto-coins and charge a fee for the service.

Powerful stuff.

thanks!

I´ve created a new asset without error message, but it still doesn´t show up in the list (Asset name: HODL)
Any ideas?

Incorrect time?

In terms of..? Where to check? What to check?
Does a user really have to check the system time (if I am right) before issueing an asset? For me, this is a bug. am I wrong?

Make sure that ur time is synced. It's not a bug, it's a countermuasure against time-travel attacks.

Ok. Where should I check it? Do I need to check my System Time? If it´s so, the time is correct.

The 1000Nxt wasn´t deducted from my testaccount, but I didn´t receive an error message neither (I did receive one before as I tried to issue an asset with a name longer than 10 chars)

Adjust ur time by minus 2 hours and try again to make sure that issue is related to incorrect time.

Or better yet - set your timezone to UTC and sync your clock using NNTP then put your timezone back to whatever you want (but do *not* change the time manually - if it isn't showing what you want then you've selected the *wrong* timezone - again whatever you do DO NOT CHANGE THE TIME MANUALLY or you will have fucked up).

He should issue again using a wrong time "to make sure that issue is related to incorrect time". Right?

Can I have some TestNXT for 4610941295751720515, please?

Probably so - I was just trying to correct the poor advice about time changing (why don't Nxt users understand UTC and timezones?).

Good old time problem

It's more daylight-saving issue, not timezone.

@CIYAM:

Can you lead a project as a Product Owner implementing something like Ethereum on top of NXT?

EDIT: Agile/Scrum development would be preferred

Still not an issue - you just click the checkbox to "automatically adjust for daylight saving" and your done.

Linux has up to date daylight savings (even historical ones) for pretty much every country in the world - there is NEVER a need to be manually changing your time whether for timezone or for daylight savings unless you live in some undocumented military base in the middle of nowhere.

The problem is that in my country we don't need to set "automatically adjust for daylight saving" anymore but some guys keep doing it and this lead to time/timezone issues.

I think that I could be of help assuming that others are happy with that.


Had to look up Scrum (showing my age) but it makes sense - so effectively my role would be "the client".

Aha - so am guessing that your country "dropped it" - assuming they are using an "up to date" distro the OS should actually *know* this but otherwise they just need to "uncheck" that check box (if they manually change the time then the problem will just keep coming back).

Yeap! Problem is that my developers are new to blockchain concept and we will need someone competent - I think you are our man!

I will post some more details in the main thread (regarding how this project will be run, funding etc.).

It tells me that HODL is already used, but I can´t find it in the list. could anyone please check?

It means that it wasn't a time issue.

But the 1000 nxt wasn´t deducted from my blance. Can anyone buy some shares to test if it is working?
How does trading work? Where can I see/set the price?

What is ur account id?

18011833952203456566

1000 was deduced, why do u think it wasn't?

Because the balance in the client is still the same. It seems like it is a client issue then.

How can I set the price for one share?

Place an ask order.

I can only place an ask order for the shares I issued or I bought, right? ;)

Yes

Can you add an API that shows if the user's time is out of date?

getTime returns current time. There is no a way to determine that it's out of date.

Well, what if I just compare user UTC time with something like http://www.timeapi.org/utc/now ?

How much time difference is allowed? 2 minutes?

If txs or blocks have more than 15 sec in the future timestamps, they r ignored.

Want also to test it with TestNXT :)

Account: 17663833196848435600

why canot i issue asset on client? already got test money yet.

test acc is 5413092517041829505

Sent you some!

i'm still having problems placing as Ask for Saltballs the asset i created

I created 10 for 1000nxt. Does that give them a value of 100 each? or should they all be fungible and sell as wished

I'm trying to place an ask for quantity 1 at price 1 and it tells me I don't have enough funds.

Will the AE always be on the testnxt? Or will this experimenting get zapped when it goes live into the client?

The 1000 NXT is just the fee to register the asset IIRC.

The not enough funds may be a bug that I think either CfB or fmiboy mentioned.

wow that's a big fee. i understand the purpose though.

I thought it was a fee, and did not think it was tied to the price of the asset.

The fee makes sense so people don't just spam asset offerings (like we have all done on testnet ;)

17975785068245586428


send some testNXt

Thanks for the TestNxt! Had some trouble to understand that i had to update the account first to see the balance, but now I got it. Now buy my Australes :D (Argentinos, recuerdan? ;D)

hey jublix. we were involved in bytecoin together. welcome to nxt friend!'

sorry im not on the right partition right now to send you the textNxt i hope someone else will do it.

Ok, wasn't sure based on your 10÷1000 comment.

Sent!

I guess my comment was clarifying that my original thought re: 1000nxt fee, was not incorrect

Wanted to understand that 100nxt wasnt a baseline price, as if you could set it to 10000 shares for 10000nxt and they all are worth 1nxt to start...

Hi Guys,

I have issued many assets. A few of my intermediate-noob notes:

i) I created 50 "Honks" and tried to asset transfer them to the ID of the holder of "Boobs". It seemed to go through ok (no error in the bar at the bottom) but they don't seem to have transferred.
ii) I understood the errors but it would be easier if they appeared in a more conversational way (probably not important now).
iii) People sent me 85k testNXT, I've issued several assets that have a transaction ID and paid the 1000 fee. Yet my balance hasn't changed. Is this right? Is it only deducted once trading begins?
iv) Another one for later but presumably the assets will be linked to Aliases in the future so there isn't just a wall of numbers and numbers to do everything.

I'm not sure if I am helping but I will now go and try and buy lots of things to get some transactions on the books!

Keep up the good work everyone, the historians are having trouble keeping up.

Tell me these accounts plz.

My account is 2299216276842660095 (Honks).

I tried to transfer to 11391456778089294276 (Boobs).

Did it go through? It is hard to know what I own, I think the honks are still mine.

11391456778089294276 owns 50 Honks. Looks like a client issue.

I think it is ok. I tried to transfer it again and rather than coming up with 50 to transfer, it was 0. I changed it to 50 and attempted the transfer again and got a "not enough cash" error message, presumably as I didn't own them anymore. I hope the holder of boobs enjoys my honks.

Is there a screen that shows you your current assets?

Send Test Nxt to 12770100660135072668

Ty

I tried but it says I don't have the funds... my account balance seems to be fixed for whatever I do. I've issued 8 or so assets so it should have reduced the balance on the  "overview" screen.

The transactions appears on the transactions page but the overview wallet balance doesn't change. Am I missing something?

Sent you 3000 (I'm running low!)

Can i get some? at 17563576125615787674

TY!

Sent you a few.

Edit: put wrong address that was my normal address, this is testnet: 4739106916211421057
Missed a nights sleep, not on the ball :S

On the unlock screen the client currently needs you to manually click the update button for the amount in your account to update, have you done that?

Sent you a few...

@Anon136

I was thinking about crowdfunding some more. Instead of having it built into the protocol or done via service provider, it could be done via smart contract. e.g. Kickstarter-style could be done via:

1. The person(s) seeking funding create a holding account for contributed Nxt or other issued coins. The smart contract will act based on transactions to this account.

2. They publicize what they're offering, the reward tiers, the funding goal and the deadline.

3. Interested investors send nxt/coins to the holding account. (Maybe with an accompanying AM if they need to specify options)

4. Once the deadline is up:

  a) If the funding goal is not reach, the smart contract will return all sent nxt/coins (minus transaction fees)

  b) If the goal is met, it will issue and send out asset tokens to the investors. Different tokens, and # of tokens depending on which tier/options the investor bought into. And it will send all contributed nxt to the person(s) seeking funding.

5. The smart contract then automatically returns any further contributions for a set period of time, before expiring. (this is in case people mistakenly send funds after the deadline has passed. Or maybe account control could provide a way to prevent an account from receiving transactions)


Smart contracts could be easily customizable, so people can experiment with different types of crowdfunding models and choose what they prefer without having to go to different service providers.

Once account control is implemented, I wonder if smart contracts can automatically lock and unlock the holding account, without revealing the key to anyone? Without something like this, you'd still have to trust the people seeking the funds to not run off with them without issuing tokens, or some 3rd party to be in charge of the account.


Sent out nxt to the last few requesters, and a bunch to swartzfeger.

Wow, thank you! :D

re: crowdfunding --

Let's say the goal is 10,000 NXT. What would be cool is to have a minimum (and maybe maximum) number of participants option as well. For cases where you would like to have a committee, board of directors, etc.

You've developed a new technique to fabricate synthetic unicorn hooves. 10k will grant 49% share of company; you want a minimum of three directors, no more than 6. You only sign up two other people for 11000 during funding period, so the project is shelved (temporarily).

Good? Bad? Flawed?

Would like this idea very much implemented  :)

Need some testNxt please,
11655792499041825006

Dunno if the market will ultimately find that good, bad or flawed, but sounds easily doable through smart contracts. Asset tokens representing director/committee seats could be issued via smart contract, based on contribution. And if it's easily doable, you can bet that people will try it out and figure out whether it's good or bad, and how to improve its flaws. ;)



I think there definitely will be people who will write smart contracts for this, it sounds easy enough. In fact, I think there will be people who will run websites which will allow you to design this kind of smart contract by choosing parameters (think of the "design your own bitcoin/litecoin clone" site).



10k sent. Buy Zahl!

waiting for this time
nxt is leader of coins

this is the key part here.


if we could do that with smart contracts than that would be ideal for sure. but if not than it would probably be nice to be able to have people issue signed transactions with conditions, such as this transaction can not be eligible for inclusion in the blockchain unless executed unless in conjunction with other signed transactions totalling a certain amount. the person operating the crowd funding could simply collect signed transactions and wait to publish them until he had enough and infact would only be able to publish them if he had enough.

Issue asset, put bid/ask order, cancel bid/ask order, match bid order, seems all ok.


Yeah, now I have 1 Zahl!

Sounds really specific for something in the protocol. In a more general form, that would be

"this transaction can not be eligible for inclusion in the blockchain unless executed unless in conjunction with other signed transactions which together satisfy a certain condition"

That condition could be total amount, or it could be total # of transactions that are > certain amount, as in swartzfeger's example of committee/director seats, or something else.

Varying another condition,

"this transaction can not (be eligible for inclusion in the blockchain or chained from or some other operation) unless executed unless in conjunction with other signed transactions which together satisfy a certain condition"

And you could vary other parts too. So what you'd really be after are scripted transactions.

My thinking is that whatever function you want a scripted transaction to be able to perform, could also be performed by a smart contract acting on a regular transaction. We just need the function as part of the lower lev/higher lev opcode, and part of what the protocol can do.

One difference is that in a scripted transaction, the script knows which transaction to act on (the one it's attached to), but a smart contract needs additional information to know which script to act on, e.g. on only txs sent to a specified account. I think processing/memory costs would be another (would all nodes in network have to execute every scripted transaction, like they have to do with smart contracts?)

Either way (or both ways), we need to ask what else we want scripts to be able to do.


An alternative way to handle the Kickstarter example is if account control allows accounts to be timelocked, and to do so transparently so that investors know how long it's timelocked for. So the holding account is created, then timelocked so that it is unlocked only after the crowdfund period has ended and the smart contract has stopped running. If the crowdfund failed, all nxt/coins would have been returned, so there's nothing a dishonest funding seeker could take.


EDIT: Also:


BCNext, found you! ;D

This explains a lot...

Hey you know, what ever gets the job done. Smart contracts sound awesome, but if for some reason that plan fails I hope that I offered a pretty reasonable and simple to implement alternative.

im really glad you read my post cfb. if worst comes to worse than it should offer a pretty simple way to do crowdfunding.

I'm just throwing around ideas too :) Ultimately I dunno what would be feasible to include in the protocol. CfB, smart guys, what do you think?

Hi,

Please some Test-NXT
Create a test Account: 16981367441012136009

regards

Can i get some test-nxt to play on AE.

13154455158327854839

Cheers

sent, hf

any idea when it will be fully released? thank you

I want to try.

6334063086523994664

Thanks

im just going to tell you guys the password to my account. it should have 200k+ on there. that will be the community fund. Please don't take more than you need and issue assets from your own accounts.

Please send me some testnet NXT:

13022291064792996760

Seems very interesting!

Why I can't issue an asset which name is already exist? I got a error as "xcp" is already used.

It's by design.

Could i please have some testnxt?
Acc. no - 9316773692058971963
Thanks!

My lite tip ...

dont do that kind of marketing, it going to bring to you more problems than you may think

http://i57.tinypic.com/s4vy20.png

how did you even make random bux???

also can you put a link for that nice graphical interface wallet in here?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5054385#msg5054385

asset exchange > issue asset

I would like to do a test drive.

2981556126818490940

Thanks

I don't get it. As "xcp" for example, Some one has issued "xcp" already. And I have some "xcp" and want to sell it. I can't sell it if I didn't  issue it, unless I use another name. Why? I mean all the same thing should be under the same name.

because BobsXCPTokens are a different thing from NxtskysXCPTokens. Just issue them like this NxtskysXCP.

Thanks, as a newbie, I don't completely understand how AE works. Is there any paper used to explain the AE works in detail? The NXT wiki is to simply too describe AE system.

Still waiting for testing! "Holiday Clear Storage Box" also not working!!

非常好。　very good.

ill just explain it to you right now. Exchanges like nxt, ripple, and mastercoin work with an idea called colored coins. So with a bitcoin any one bitcoin is the same as any other bitcoin. They are what we call fungible. Colored coins are intentionally not fungible. They are intentionally distinct and different from one another. Colored coins have a value attached to them. So for example, speaking in abstractions here, a colored nxt may have the value attached to it of "Nxtsky promises to pay 1 btc to who ever sends him this token, signed netsky". Now that token can be traded on a market.

Lets say betty wants to trade litecoin for bitcoin. She sends litecoin to "hanks litecoin gateway" with a message attached "bettys nxt address:blablabla". Hank will issue "X hankLTCTokens" and sends them to bettys nxt address. Betty uses these to fill the highest bid for on their orderbook thus gaining nxt. Next betty uses her nxt to fill the lowest ask on the orderbook for nxtskysXCPTokens. She sends her nxtskysXCPTokens to nxtskys nxt address with a message attached "bettys xcp address:blablabla". Betty waits for the xcp to arrive.

its obvious to most at first the disadvantages of what i just described. Its very complex compared to sending your coins to cryptsy but this is the cost of decentralization and decentralization comes with its own rewards. at some point in the future you will not just be buying any old random token. You will buy the ones issued by the guy who lives down the street so you can go there and pick them up in person.

And what was the idea with trust and reputation within the nxt AE?

These are actually *separate* things - you would need to create a "trust network" on *top* of the AE rather than *within in* as you wouldn't want any AE owner to be able to *manipulate* that "trust network".

*trust* should/will be a variable of worth in AE. If not automatic, it will be the invisible hand of the market at work

if I buy a diamond online from Tiffanys.com, I pay more, but it comes in a blue box, UPS delivers it next day, my wife squeals, and i'm on their mailing list forever because we *trust* them

if i buy a diamond online from www.realstonez.ru It might seem cheap, but will it even arrive? is it real? did they steal all my CC info too?

If i buy silver from AnonInc, I'm more inclined to trust it, and assume it will arrive, then I will give feedback of some sort, automated I'm sure, and his *trust* rating goes up, which then would raise his VALUE

is the test acc balance be reset? my test acc balance is empty.

or somebody can send me test moeny again?

test acc is 5413092517041829505,thanks

Cross-posting from the main thread:


I wrote that only in half-jest. What does everyone think about such a grouping mechanism? Would it be practical? e.g. could it be used as proof of pizza purchase? With such tokens on hand, send them to someone as a /r/randomactsofpizza, or trade it for a real one for yourself whenever you like? What about for other items?

EDIT: Here's how *not* to give pizza: http://www.newsweek.com/chevron-gives-residents-near-fracking-explosion-free-pizza-229491

GOOD!
GREAT WORK.
UP
 ;D

Good job.

This idea of third party security is a good, idea but why try to incorporate it in the network? it seems to me that it would make the usage of the feature overly complicated to implement and would work better as a private entity (i.e. a for hire security/escrow service) that could work for profit. I think that there is not an issue with financial services or products that are not decentralized. Decentralizing things like financial services and products actually would hurt the network as it would decrease incentive to participate. The Idea behind NXT from my perspective, is to provide a truly free market economy and a decentralized, common currency for that market economy. Decentralizing things like financial services and products takes away the opportunity for people to capitalize on providing these services. You should start your own NXT escrow business and charge people and make money. This is an issue that will define the network. The more things like this that you try to decentralize the more the network is actually going to be centralized. to me it is a waste of resources to try to incorporate these types of things into the network. After all, there is nothing inherently wrong with traditional financial  services and financial products aside from the fact that they are based around inflationary centralized currencies that hold no true market value. Give us a free market and a decentralized currency and let us enjoy it and benefit from it. That is as difficult and complicated as it needs to be. :D

So, basically this feature allows some one to generate a token on the NXT network that represents a Bitcoin or a Litecoin or essentially any commodity. Attached to these generated tokens is a "promise to pay" which give them value. These tokens can then be exchanged through the network.

Is the exchange that you describe incorporated into the feature? a user can create a token and place it on the market for open bidding? Is that the jest of what you're describing? Are these tokens divisible? Can they be generated in sets? Is the exchange to be part of the client? Sorry to hit you with so many questions:) Is there some place to find this info? I find this to be a fascinating idea.

my understanding is: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. (i think i counted the number of questions right :D)

idk what would be the place to find this info. this thread i think would be the best place. try playing with the test client, that'll help i suspect.

Thanks. I will try out he test exchange.......and prolly bug you with some more questions. :D

Tried the test client and had no luck. (to be brutally honest though, luck didn't have so much to do with it as did my ignorance and lack of computer skills.... had trouble with opening the client despite watching tutorials and several attempts from other members to help me). Do you have any idea when this feature will be real world functional and if there will be accessibility for the programing handicapped and syntax retarded? Hate to keep bugging ya.... But this feature is really the whole essence of the Crypto movement, and I am really looking forward to the possibilities... I am sure you are aware of its implications.... just wish I could play. Thanks for the help and info.

Hi again. I have been screwing around with this feature for a while to today,(mostly reading and watching vids about the topic) I tried your suggestion about using the test version but I am limited by my knowledge of computers and couldn't get the test client to work. I have found out a lot and while I would like to try out the test exchange, I think I have a decent understanding of the feature, so thanks for the help and info. I do how ever have a few more questions about the client that I wasn't able to find info on.

Once the exchange is operational there will be two clients, one for Forging coins and sending and receiving coins and then another for the exchange, Is this correct or will the exchange client incorporate all of these functions in one client? Are transactions that are done through the exchange processed on the same block chain as the currency? And are there fees associated with exchange transactions and If so how do they work (paid in currency or paid in the exchanged asset or some other way?)

I realize you are busy, so if there is a link you could suggest or a source of info that might help.....at any rate any info you might give would be appreciated and maybe answer someone else's  questions as well. And thanks again.

 could I get some Test NXT for the asset exchange?

testNXT 2630721545000745539

Transactions in the decentralized exchange are processed on the same blockchain as the currency. Yes there are fees, just like bitcoin you are bidding for inclusion, but probably there will be a hard coded minimum to prevent spam, probably it will be 1nxt or 0.1nxt. fees are payed in nxt.

Thanks. Finally figured out the test client. I am gonna mess with it for a bit and see how it works. thanks for the help.

Anyone care to give coins for the Exchange?

Thanks in advance.

4768424258192371668

great job.

15004211867702614232

Please!

Could I get some TestNXT for the asset exchange?

Thanks

2630721545000745539

I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by "bidding for inclusion". Let me sum up what I think you mean and you tell me if I am on the right track.

The fee is applied at the generation of the asset and the total fee is based upon the demand for the generation of the asset. Kind of like the alias feature; If two people want the same alias, high bidder wins. So if you create an asset that is unique then you would only be charge the coded minimum fee. Sound close? if my understanding is correct or close to correct, Then there are no transaction fees(i.e. fees  for trading assets). Is that so?

I have been playing with the feature but haven't really got to use it yet. I tried to create an asset and was denied because I had insufficient funds (no TestNXT). Overall I think it is a pretty awesome idea. I would like to see "Last Trade" pricing added to the main index of assets, and possibly index categories (So someone who is in the market for currencies could index only those types of marketed assets and not have to wade and search though other types of assets on the exchange), but those are just ideas for future upgrades. It will be pretty bad ass as it is once it is up... and it is really exiting to imagine what it will be. Thanks for the info on this topic.

Ok so yea there is a fee for generating an asset, thats separate from what i mean by bidding for inclusion. So when ever you send an asset from one person to another that transfer must be included in a block. that block has limited space and the author of the block gets to decide what transactions make it in a which don't. a rational self interested forger will put in the transactions that pay him the most first and leave out the ones that pay him less if the demand for space exceeds the supply of space. this is what i mean by bidding for inclusion.

yes i agree it is very excited. it could change the world in profoudn ways. you are welcome.

Ok. so then it is just like a coin transaction pretty much. You can choose to pay a higher fee for faster more assured processing. or a low minimum fee if you aren't in a hurry. I like that. I was wondering if there was something that anchored the NXT currency to the asset exchange. If some one could create an asset for a creation fee and trade that asset freely that would kind of be bad for network as people could bypass the base currency once they created the asset which could lead to fewer fees for running the network. So there would be no fees between trading parties (unless they wanted them) but a fee to the network. Which requires all asset traders to be vested (at least somewhat) in the base currency, thus adding more demand and more value to the base currency. Dammit that is smart. :D

You got it exactly right.

Is there anyone working on reaching out to groups and organizations who might be interested in the benefits of the AE? Or any literature being developed to provide info about it? I don't mean to appear as a vulture, but with the bad light that has been cast upon private exchanges, the iron is hot. It may be a good time to put bugs in ears.... unless you think the software is still too underdeveloped to truly pitch the feature.... At any rate an info package could be put together; or several packages based on prospective users interests. If this is in the works, I can help. If it is not on the works, I can still help  :D Can't write computer program, but I am a fairly decent propaganda writer.

NXT UBER ALLES!!!

O.k. I think we are on the same page when it comes to the A.E. We are just seeing it from different perspective.

First, let me say that what the AE represents to me is free market. Not just a free market that someone tells you is a free market, and then manipulates the value of the market currency, or implies involuntary risks to your assets, (taxing you to fund bailouts), or legislates transaction customs.....ETC. But a truly free market. You or I or anyone alive has never seen or had the benefit of a free market in the sense of the free market that NXT has the potential to be. We have the chance to make it so. Maybe someday this NXT thread on Bitcoin forum will be in a archive some where and people will look back at it as a transcript for a convention of the start of something truly great. :D

Secondly, as I stated above, I think we see sort of eye to eye on a lot of the fundamentals of NXT, and that the differences regarding this topic are simple communication issues (as most differences are.)

That being said, the reason I think your Ideas on this topic are wrong is that they impose upon the Idea of NXT as a free market; and the problems that they are intended to solve won't be solved by their implementation.

First of I will argue the point you made about squatting. I do think that this is going to happen. People will use the opportunity to purchase domain names and profit by selling them. This may seem kind of ugly, and base, and put a smudgy appearance on the AE, but things like this are a part of a free market. Your line of thought that a 1000 nxt fee will prevent this is flawed in the sense that it assumes people who have the means to pay higher fees are above capitalizing on this opportunity to profit. People will still buy as many names as they can, and still demand the highest price for their sale that the market will bare; but the starting price is automatically going to be more than 1000 NXT, and their will be fewer people holding more in demand domain names, as entry level competition for the names will have been restricted by a price that wasn't dictated by the market. There is going to be a rat race for domain names; a low fee makes it a more fair, more inclusive and more attractive race to get into. No one will pay CRAZY prices to buy a domain name. They will pay what they feel it is worth.

Secondly, restricting the AE's use to traditional assets is a violation of free market fundamentals and limits the ways the AE can be used and by whom it can be used by. This will limit the total usability and usage of the AE and make it a less versatile  tool. The only restrictions that should be imposed are the ones that are needed  for the secure functionality of the AE. If these functional and security restraints don't restrict an asset that is not a traditional asset from being traded, there should be no "sent from above" restriction applied that would limit the market. If the functional and security restraints don't limit the ways in which people can conduct commerce freely amongst themselves. There should be no such restriction imposed by any person or committee of persons. This would eliminate, to a certain degree, creative and innovative uses for the AE.

Thirdly, There is no financial need in the fee being high, as the cost in registering an asset, to the system is the same as all other transaction. The High fee cost is an artificial price, and the fee will, in the highest probability, end up in the account of someone who has 50 million NXT. The effects of this are exponential, when coupled with the effects of limiting innovation and creativity.

Fourthly, as far as your comment "sell it on Ebay" :D, I was invisioning more of a "Craigslist". If your Ebay suggestion was an attempt to imply that people selling  things in this manor I suggested selling comic books would turn the AE in to an unmanageable, unnavigable clusterfuck, then you should brace yourself; because even if it were not used in this fashion, if it is in any way successful, The AE as it functions now is going to be a clusterfuck. And I don't think the "Tiered" system will prevent this. If the AE is going to be manageable and navigable it will have to be structured differently. High issue fees aren't by any means, structural improvements. High fees and restructuring (tiers) are two different solutions to the problem of the short comings of the functionality of the AE. The high fee solution is a market fixing, ineffectual, demographiclly exclusive, free market restrictive, quick fix bandaid, that resembles the two party government approach to problem solving. The restructuring solution, while not instantly gratifying, is a real solution. And while I do somewhat agree with the idea of the "tier" system suggestion, I don't think that in the long run, even that will be effective. (I do have some ideas regarding this, but that is another topic, the topic at hand is the fixing of issue fees).

In short, I am for this AE of ours being a free market. The first free market that anyone alive will ever have access to. So that means I am for anything that facilitates open and unrestricted trade and commerce between anyone and everyone. And I am opposed to anything that is contrary to this, including fees not set by that free market, and socialist gateways to that market, or any other constraint or restriction that is not required for the AE to function securely.

And I also feel that all of the arguments that you sited in favor of the higher fee, can be solved with restructuring the AE, and making it even more of a free market and facilitating more free trade and commerce; And this should be the area of focus, and that any future marketing strategies have this as a top consideration. The fees will do nothing to solve these problems.

   

Something that need to complete Asset Exchange is Company account or Crypto Company.

I have mentioned it several times but not yet paid enough attention:

We can arrange for a company account!
We can have two type of accounts, Personal accounts and company accounts like any Bank.
Personal accounts can act just like normal currency accounts. One person have the total control over the account while he/she have it's credentials.
But Company accounts can include several personal accounts. each personal account is a member of board of company and can participate in decisions.
Company board members can decide how the payments from company account should be made.
They will vote for a logical order that showing how payments from company account should be made.

For example:

Payments from Company Account(CA) can be confirmed if "Personal Account A"(PS-A) confirm it.
Payments from CA can be confirmed if "PS-A and PS-B" confirm it.
Payments from CA can be confirmed if "PS-A or (PS-B and PS-C)" confirm it.

So in this case the system can:

1-Form a company in virtual world.
2-The company board can take decisions according to the voting system we implemented separately for a "logical order".
3-payments from company can be made according to combination of Personal entities defined in "logical order"
4-Members of board at anytime can change the "logical order" of company so they can change the CEO of company as they wish.
5-The company after forming can announce Assets in Asset exchange feature. so everyone can be a stake holder of an asset of company. And receive dividends.

So this Company account can generate Assets for itself and offer to public.

It's just a new Idea aroused in my mind!

I think every one that implement this idea in his currency will have the future!

Great comments Jerical13.
I would like to add my perspective.
1000NXT now is not very much as a starting point. The reason I state this is if you look at what other "centralized" AE such as btct.co at the time and some others, were charging 5 BTC at the time. Flat fee. Quite expensive at today's BTC value comparison.
I think that any fees that are charged for a listing in the AE are distributed percentages among forging and/or possibly lottery/random/development accounts between accounts taking into consideration a weighting factor such as activity, etc... and any other ideas others might have.
A re-adjustment of pricing according to some kind of value from BTC etc...? Kind of like how the PoW algorithm adjusts accordingly to the hash rate, etc...
Thank you for sharing.
Just some ideas...

sorry i know i need to read that comment and reply to it jerical13 its just very very large. i haven't forgotten about it though.

Its's cool. take your time. That's why I wanted to converse on a separate form from the main thread. Sorry about the length. I find it really difficult to not express myself fully, to forsake misunderstandings. At your leisure.....I would like to hear your thoughts though so try not to forget :D

[/quote]

Great comments Jerical13.
I would like to add my perspective.
1000NXT now is not very much as a starting point. The reason I state this is if you look at what other "centralized" AE such as btct.co at the time and some others, were charging 5 BTC at the time. Flat fee. Quite expensive at today's BTC value comparison.
I think that any fees that are charged for a listing in the AE are distributed percentages among forging and/or possibly lottery/random/development accounts between accounts taking into consideration a weighting factor such as activity, etc... and any other ideas others might have.
A re-adjustment of pricing according to some kind of value from BTC etc...? Kind of like how the PoW algorithm adjusts accordingly to the hash rate, etc...
Thank you for sharing.
Just some ideas...


[/quote]

With the transparent forging of NXT the cost of transactions and running the network is reduced. As I sited above, it creates no additional cost for a transaction that registers a domain name (unless I have misinterpreted the information) than any other transaction, so the cost factor isn't a valid argument. If the cost per transaction is the same, there is no justification for the minimum fee to be different. There may be an argument that the influx of people rushing to register and squat names will overload the block chain, but that is where the "bidding for inclusion" would hold trump over transaction priority, and by that association, cost of domain registeration. If some one wants to be sure to get a specific domain name, they might be more inclined to opt to pay a higher fee.

10391254739172632001
I like to try some testnxt,thanks

Thanks, I basically understand how AE works. It can be used to issue asset, and we must trust the asset owner. If the asset owner disappear, the people who buy the asset would lost their money.It is ideal for the issue of shares. but not useful for the average person. Am I right? 

that person would have to build up some reputation but if he could do that than it would be useful to him.

Hey guys!

I want to join you testing the Asset Exchange feature. Can you send me some testNXT?
Here's my test acc: 3073766067894120566

I received some testnet NXT earlier but made the mistake of changing the fee amount from 1,000 to 10,000 when creating an asset to exchange!

Q: so this fee, would it go to the account that forges the block? If so, that's a lovely payout!

Would love to keep playing: Any more testnet NXT?

Thanks: 12745592950286399800

I want test,here is my account number:18347252788360169341,thanks!

Can i get some testnxt?

8619009819187075604

Thanks in advance!

yeah where can i download the client?

Hi, could I get some testNext for testnet : 9362966581067150294

thanks

This has probably already been discussed but I think we need to get rid of the "Asset Name" so we don't end up with a second lot of name squatting.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to just tie an Alias to the Asset Id same as we can tied an Alias to an Account Id?

Client software could just hide "name" field.

As long as duplicate names are permitted then I would be fine with that.

It needs collaboration of all client devs for this. AE should be a cohesive experience across all clients.

Agreed - that's why I would want the Asset Name to be non-unique (it would *force* the clients to do something better as their users will complain about the duplicate Asset Names).

Let's say by issuing an asset, this asset automatically gets a random string as the name (=identifier). What would be a good solution that people could recognize this asset as the xyz asset? Linking to aliases, which are already squatted and can easily be obtained (1NXT in comparison to 1000NXT when issuing an asset) sounds not good.

this is an awesome project but i wonder if it can success

We will see, foxfoxcoin. With altcoin-gateways to Nxt, it could be a game changer.

Did you try it out on the testnet?

We already have aliases that *belong* to accounts don't we?

So we can put the name of the Asset into such an alias that belongs to the Asset issuer.

e.g. @Asset_Id = "ABC Asset"

The idea being that the Asset Name is no longer unique - you just choose which one you want to pay attention to according to the Issuer (so it doesn't matter if you get duplicate names as long as you know the issuers accounts of the ones you are interested in).

I would expect an Issuer would be making some sort of announcement where they can tell everyone the Issuer account id for their new Asset.

Right now:
Asset Names -> Buyer pays attention to Asset Name, Description, Asset Issuer Account and some public opinions

Your idea:
Alias -> Buyer pays attention to Alias (belonging to Nxt account which issues the Asset), Description, Asset Issuer Account and some public opinions


I don't see a big difference. What don't I understand?

The only real difference is whether or not an Alias Name has to be "unique" and whether users are going to get "tricked" or "confused" because they didn't check other things (or their client didn't show it the "right" way).

As I said provided that Asset Name doesn't need to be unique then I don't mind if it remains.

But Aliases are unique and people look at it first.

I have a mental block, it seems.

edit: Ok, wait. I process it one more time. Maybe I get it ;)

I was pretty sure we can have aliases that are "private to an account" (unless I am mistaken) so everyone can have an alias called @Asset_Id.

What about unique identifiers (currently Asset Names, but you cannot choose it yourself) and a non-unique name (kind of a 'short description').

Now people search for the 'short-description' first but then look at the unique identifier and other stuff to reassure it is the right one.

No aliases involved.

edit: Yes, this would involve changing the code.

What do you mean with "private to an account"?

Meaning every account can have an alias called say @email that is there email address (rather than a *global* Alias called @email).

12345@email = 12345@domain.com
88888@email = 88888@domain.com

Make sense?

I don't like the idea, coz this could be (and will be) used for phishing.

In that case I would like the Asset Name *removed altogether* as otherwise I can bet someone will create an Asset called CIYAM and rip people off with it because of the name.

I'm not sure why you are in support of letting people do such squatting and scamming - it will never go down well "in the real business world".

Maybe change the Asset Name to Asset Identifier and the issuer cannot choose it. It's just a random string. No core change, no phishing, no squatting.

People need names, they name everything they work with.

The *software* will find the name and display it. You will see this:

CIYAM 12345
CIYAM 88888

Now - user just selects the one that *matches* the account they were told (or read about in the IPO announcement) and work with that one from then on.

Got it?

So we have "name" in both the cases?

Yes - *now the user sees that there is a problem* (they would not see this problem if the only thing called CIYAM was created by a trickster).

Of course they are now going to "check which one is right" rather than just randomly pick one - don't you think?

So put simply - Asset Name is *not* unique and always display the Issuer account id next to it (in every client). I think that this reduces the incentive to even bother "trying" to confuse people and of course makes squatting impossible.

Well, the reality is that we do have name and removing it is not worth the reward, IMHO. For 100 ppl saying that we don't need name u can find 100 ppl saying that we do need it. So, let's leave it as is.

Then can we just make it *not unique* as I don't want a trickster creating CIYAM Asset.

Clear enough?

(otherwise I am going to suggest that *you are responsible* for anyone getting scammed by this)

I'm afraid we can't, I do not control such things. I add new features but Jean-Luc decides what to include into production. Ask him.

Makes you wonder what the point of this topic is then - but okay I will just email him instead.

I think having no unique names for Assets and instead relying on unique Asset IDs & #Accounts is far better than the current system.

To make it clear what I am talking about please login into testnet (http://nxtra.org/nxt-client-trustless) and take a look at the Asset called "CIYAM".

My account is 15092019138248535173 and you are able to look at my account and list my Assets you'll see that I have 50% of CIYAM Assets *but* I never created them (the "evil doer" did and sent 50% to me).

I think that would fool *most* people into thinking that I must have either created CIYAM or at least *endorse* it.

Seriously if we launch AE like this not only will NXT *crash* in price but we'll look like fucking idiots (or outright scammers).

What could be a solution?

At the very minimum *no unique Asset Name* and always display with name and an id (whether asset id or issuer).

If a user sees this:

CIYAM 12345
CIYAM 88888

they are *going to think twice* before buying and selling as they will be *confused* (and so they should be).

If they only see this:

CIYAM 12345

then we have a big problem (which is what we have *right now*).

(personally I think your idea of *no names* is even better but am not going to try and battle that one)

Yeah, now I think "no names" is too radical and ignores user friendliness.

True although that is why I had suggested using account owned aliases for this which would allow *renames* as a side feature.

What about using reputation system and showing a scoring value (of the asset and the issuer) next to the Asset?

Easily cheated as well - just don't have unique Asset Names - rather simple actually.

If you only see 1 Asset Name then far more likely it is "genuine" - if you see >1 then you *know* you need to investigate more.

You are probably right. And I always prefer simple over complex.

edit: Maybe some other guys have a great idea? Could post it in the main thread.

I have - can't offer a better solution, leave it as is.

So you *want* to see the Asset Exchange launch crash NXT and cause us all to be labelled as scammers?

(I guess so)

Don't be so touchy, CfB.

U make a mountain out of a molehill.

It could be a deal breaker. We can at least talk about how to make it better for the user.

We need name anyway. If we don't show the name but the id instead then people will call assets using first 3-5 digits. And someone will create an asset with the same first digits.
Asset registration fee is set to 1000 NXT to counteract squatting.
Ian worries about someone squatting "CIYAM", well, it's a world of cryptoanarchy and laws don't work here, live with it.

No *I do not* (don't put words into my mouth please).

I worry someone uses "my name" to rip people off (and this *will* happen - and you know it but don't care).

Let's see if some good ideas are out there (main thread).

Sorry, I meant that someone would squat CIYAM to rip ppl off.

While we have no a better solution it's better to change nothing, imo.

I *gave* you a better solution.

Allow multiple Assets with the same name.

This will cause average Joe to go "what the fuck" and stop him losing his NXT.

Why do you need to ignore my solution (your bosses are "telling you to ignore it")?

I think ur solution is worse. People will see legit "CIYAM" and fake "CIYAM", they won't read numbers, coz numbers r much harder to "read".

Wasn't there gona be a reputation system? Won't this help?

p.s. Don't bother to answer me if my question is irrelevant. Your time is very valuable for me!

Reputation will not work.

CfB, CIYAM. Don't crush your heads together. CIYAM thinks his solution is better and CfB thinks the solution is worse.

Let's vote ;D

Just kidding. Maybe there is a good solution out there...

Users should use their own brain, it's the solution.

Why will wesleyhs GUI be very good for Nxt? Ever heard of a good user experience?

This is similar.

U can't create an idiot-proof system. Any attempt to do so will lead to bad experience for people with average IQ.

So your solution is to "trick those who are stupider".

Good luck with AE - I know it is going to *fail terribly* if done your way.

That's right. But maybe we can get a better system without only pleasing underaverage Joe.

Btw CIYAM's solution would force users to use their brain and compare other details of the asset to choose the right one. Isn't that what you want?

Please don't be so reluctant to a good user experience. Maybe we find a good solution.

It's a client side task and has nothing to do with the core.

I feel a negative energy in this thread and am really sad about that.

You two are smart and talented but you don't leverage this.

Right. Unless we need a little modification to the code for a possible solution.

what about adding a field called label/nickname (whatever) which is not required to be unique and can be changed.

Negative energy? If u were a programmer u would see that u r wrong. Don't worry.

Right now Ian's proposal could be implemented by parsing "description" field and hiding "name" field in client software. So from my point of view (as a core developer) there is no a (technical) problem to have several "CIYAM"s.

We already have it - description field.

Well, you could be right. I'm no programmer.

Hug each other. Moving on.

just thought of that

I agree that Ian's proposal should be implemented by client software not by the core

i see what you did there :D :D :D

Hi everyone!
Due to the somewhat delicate matter of this post, I just registered this account.

I am a long time customer of Silk Road (SR) and its follower (Sheep Market, Silk Road 2.0). SR made over 1.2 billion in revenues. There are several voices who claim that it was SR who made Bitcoin popular. In the last months there were several major drawbacks for these kind of markets: The Bitcoins of the vendors / customers got stolen either from hackers or the platform itself. Of course after such bad experience especially the vendors do not want to trust their funds to an anonymous platform since there are huge trust issues involved. Desperately they are looking for an alternative solution. The Asset Exchange could solve this problem for the vendors.
 
What they need is (beside the obvious):
1.     The setup of their products must be easy
        a.    Description
        b.    If possible pictures
2.     Message system
3.     Easy Payment
 
To address the demands of the customers. The following criteria must be met:
1.     Easy access
2.     Ratings of the vendor
3.     Message System
4.     Easy Payment

Will the NXT AE be ready for that?
Needless to say if this is working there mustn’t be a lot of marketing and new investors / vendors / customers would naturally come into NXT. Result would be full order books and a price explosion.

please dont do this on our blockchain. the last thing i want is the feds breathing down my neck. the code is open source go fork it and make SilkRoadCoin.

but in answer to your question, technically, yes, a blockchain could be used to solve these problems. not asset exchange though. thats not what asset exchange is for. its for trading homogeneous resources not heterogeneous resources. "weed" for example is heterogeneous so weed colored tokens wouldn't work well in the asset exchange. what you want to do is outline a protocol for interpreting arbitrary messages in a way that is relevant to running a marketplace not an asset exchange.

I like the idea of being able to include an alias or account ID when listing an asset. At the very least it would help to establish reputations. Lets face it, there are going to be people who try to scam other people. Any way that you try to stop it, people will find a way to cheat. If a unique alias where attached to a listed asset it would at least give people the opportunity to build a reputation of a legit seller, and give people who are in the buying market a way to index and identify reputable sellers. It would kind of be like An Ebay seller's ID. I don't however think that listing an alias should be required. People should have the option of being "non-listed" and as anonymous as possible.

This may be a good Idea. It would force sellers to have to rely more on their "Name" and reputation. It would also help to reduce the demand for asset names.

hi,
if you have any  ideas about using AE, really in real life - just simple ideas, you can post them here during next weeks :)

thanks

What about software licensing ?

i am wrong? the comment you linked didn't make any positive claims. i said "please don't ________", i asked nicely.

CfB is developing a digital store framework on Nxt. This could be your road.

Following you advice that the Asset Exchange ist not the right place for this kind of marketplace I reposted this under the general NXT thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5769015#msg5769015

Anon, could you explain what you mean by homogenous/ heterogeneous and explain the difference when it comes to functionality of the AE?

The more I think about this idea, the more I agree with Ciyam. If multiple assets could have the same name and sellers had to list with an account or alias, it would help people to identify reputable sellers, it would eliminate name squatting, it would also help to index assets as there wouldn't be innumerable Dogecoin or Bitcoin listings with varied alterations to the name; people could just list Dogecoin or Bitcoin or whatever they where selling. It would also help smaller asset traders, because the high value popular asset names will most probably have high prices and thus favor larger, wealthier traders. It would also eliminate the need for 1000 NXT asset registration fees.

sure so i am talking about fungibility. should have been more specific.


the asset exchange lends its self to fungible assets. ounces of weed are typically not very fungible.

OK. Basically, what you are saying is that the AE is not set up to sell things as singular assets; You can't sell 57 Chevies, Rare Collectables, art work, ETC. Is it a characteristic of the AE programing that sets this limit, or is this usage limitation designed to reduce and control the number of assets that can be listed on the AE for the sake of organization?

Why does my api call for all assets return nothing?:

{"assetIds":[]}

well its not that you cant.

technically you could issue 1 asset for many different 57 chevies but then customers would be weary of using it since they wouldnt know exactly what they were getting for their money. meaning they would tend to only be willing to bid the value of a 57 chevie in the worst condition imaginable. meaning it would be a terrible way to sell a 57 chevie in decent condition and would tend to end up representing only the crummiest ones because there is some heterogeneity in 57 chevies that are only worth their weight in scrap.

or you could issue 1 asset for each 57 chevie but it would be a huge waste of resources.

cfb is working on a blockchain marketplace, that would be the place to sell 57 chevies.

it could be very useful for chevrolette corporation to issue 10000 units of 1 asset that represents brand new 2014 chevies though. that would make a lot of sense. it would even allow them to get a better idea of what the market clearing price is for their product in a way that they cant get with guessing and then shipping them out to dealerships with a price tag that represents that guess.

[

well its not that you cant.

technically you could issue 1 asset for many different 57 chevies but then customers would be weary of using it since they wouldnt know exactly what they were getting for their money. meaning they would tend to only be willing to bid the value of a 57 chevie in the worst condition imaginable. meaning it would be a terrible way to sell a 57 chevie in decent condition and would tend to end up representing only the crummiest ones because there is some heterogeneity in 57 chevies that are only worth their weight in scrap.

or you could issue 1 asset for each 57 chevie but it would be a huge waste of resources.

cfb is working on a blockchain marketplace, that would be the place to sell 57 chevies.

it could be very useful for chevrolette corporation to issue 10000 units of 1 asset that represents brand new 2014 chevies though. that would make a lot of sense. it would even allow them to get a better idea of what the market clearing price is for their product in a way that they cant get with guessing and then shipping them out to dealerships with a price tag that represents that guess.
[/quote]

So it is because of the limited information and data that the AE is able to transmit that would be the problem. You can't post pictures or give a long description ETC.

So then the Market place that is in the works will be functional in this way? Is it going to be similar to the AE? or linked to the AE? Or will the AE be modified to do this?

afaik the marketplace uses AM to trade goods.

that's right.

this is an awesome project but i wonder if it can success

Does the AE use Arbitrary Messaging or is it facilitated by something else?

Is there a link you could provide for the arbitrary message system and how to use it? Is it functional?

a solid colored coins implementation will succeed, will it be on our blockchain though? thats far less certain.

I do not understand this... I paid 35 NXT for 10 shares of an asset + 1 NXT as a fee.

It is showing up in the client as spending 0 NXT + 1 fee that was sent to the genesis account.

It should show up as 35 NXT going to the asset seller + 1 NXT to the person that forged that block, right?

Is this on purpose, or a bug? If it's on purpose, why?

Note also that the # of confirmations is not updating on the dashboard, but appears to be updating in the "transactions" section.

Screenshot:

https://i.imgur.com/7tQZLTc.png

I think you are wrong here, Anon.

Suppose I'm a weed dealer called Mr. Green. Suppose I get 10 oz. of product in from my supplier. I can issue an asset called "1 oz Mr. Green's Dank Bud" and issue 10 shares of the asset.

Dealers develop reputations for quality of their product, so 1 oz. from Mr Green may be worth less than 1 oz from Mr. Purple, but as far as a buyer is concerned...an ounce from Mr. Green is fungible with any other ounce from Mr. Green.

And not for nothing, but Bitcoin would probably never have gotten out of Mom's basement if it weren't for the appearance of the Silk Road early on in Bitcoin's history.

You're probably right that there are more elegant ways to run such a marketplace, but to say it couldn't be done in the AE is being shortsighted, IMO.

I could be wrong.

Is there, or is there planned to be a way to make payments to everyone holding an asset?

Suppose I am an asset issuer and I want to send 1 NXT per share to the Nxt account where the asset is held (like paying a dividend or interest). Can this be done?

Or would I need an external program or some sort of script to parse the blockchain, looking for accounts that hold shares of my asset and have it pay them individually?

Maybe via AT.

Yes - we are going to have to consider a few things about how AT and AE will interact to help with the above and with other things to do with the creation of a DAC.

if they could keep there quality consistent enough than it could work. the thing is that there probably wouldnt be a huge advantage for mr green of allowing people to trade greens dank tokens amongst themselves rather than just selling to them directly. though there could potentially be the advantage of giving him some really solid price signals to help in the running of his business. i may in fact have been wrong about this. it may infact be good for mr green if he produces a steady supply of reliable constant quality, not so good for some guy who gets meth or something from different sources all of the time with varying quality. good for producers themselves who can guarantee a constant quality and constant supply, bad for resellers who just resell what ever they can get their hands on.

New version at http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/

Basically, I changed asset issuance;

See this screen below, you'll see there are a bunch of extra settings. The most important of which is the suffix.

Now that the asset exchange allows non-unique names you'll see duplicate listings. I don't like this. Now, in the future I will show as XYZ.001, XYZ.002 etc (it doesn't yet now for technical reasons), but even that is not a good solution. We need some kind of branding.

That's why I added a suffix field. This field should be set to an alias you control.

This allows you to brand your asset. For example, if you sell gold, instead of it being displayed like "gold.012" you can display as "gold.yourname".

The prefix (gold) is not unique, the suffix is (since it's an alias which is already unique).

http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/issue_asset_form.png

There are a few other fields also like tags but I don't really use these now. I added this because CFB is also adding tagging capability to his digital goods store. However, he is doing it server side, I'm doing it client side. I don't like that. I would like for both api's (asset exchange and DGS) to have as much in common as possible). I'm only adding tagging here as a proof of concept at the moment.

Anyway, this is how an asset with a suffix looks like in the sidebar:

http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/asset_exchange_alias.png

This too I would like to see integrated on the server side, as an extra field in the assets table. Why? Because right now I have to do double the requests; I have to first fetch the asset, if it has an alias assigned to it, fetch the alias and check to see if it belongs to the asset issuer (if not it is not displayed). So this is not as efficient, and since it's a field that can never change, it doesn't make sense not to integrate it in to the asset exchange table.

Of course, only if you guys (the community) like this feature.

Please let me know your feedback on this. I think it solves all the issues; we have a non-unique prefix and a brandable, unique suffix.

Thanks to pandaisftw and jl777 for the ideas.

Test this, and let me know if you find any bugs or have suggestions.

Donations appreciated at 8189784314684138350

It will have to be non-unique as JL has already agreed and made the changes that Asset naming is to be "non-unique".

Trying to "get around it" by saying it is a secondary name is allowing listings such as:

Software:Microsoft
Hardware:Microsoft

where Microsoft is a squatted alias (thus we are now allowing "multiple" scam listings rather than even just the one).

If a new exchange creates Nxt assets, I buy some of them for 10.000 Nxt, what can I do with those assets then? What benefits can it bring to me?

The two most obvious uses would be as equity shares in a company, or as "bearer tokens."

A "bearer token" means that anyone that sends that token back to the issuer will receive something for it.

For instance, Anon136 had the idea of issuing tokens that would correspond to a specific type of 1 oz. silver coin.

He would sell these tokens on the asset exchange for enough money to cover his cost + shipping to the United States + some profit for himself.

So if he has 500 silver coins in his vault, he can sell 500 tokens redeemable for a 1 oz silver coin, including shipping.

Now these tokens can be traded freely on the exchange and function as a sort of currency. If one day I decide that I would rather hold the coin in my hand than just own it digitally, I can send my token back to Anon and he will mail me the silver coin.

That is one example. There are novel ways of using these assets to raise capital to start a small business, as well.

Can anyone tell me the best place to report bugs for Wesley's client?

I really like the look of the new forum and think it will make us much more effective in discussing and debating Nxt.

to that end, I submitted a new post there: http://107.170.117.237/index.php/topic,35.0.html

It has to do with the currency settlement debate, but I am raising new issues that haven't been addressed. Please feel free to comment, especially Ian.

so here is a serious issue that i want to get out there and get people thinking about and that is bid orders stored locally rather than on the blokchain. these orders would be present but invisible to anyone except the person placing them (in their client). what do you guys think would be the net effect of these? it seems like they would hold significant advantages to the users so would there be any point at all in publicly displaying your bids? wouldnt this be a sort of market failure where its in the individuals interest to hide his bids and asks but in the communities interest for them to be public? what would cause some people (preferably most people) to display their bids publicly?

Some times people place bids and asks for psych. effects.

Would it be possible to offer a choice of hidden/not hidden.

have a look

i don't think its possible not to offer that choice.

LOL. I mean let the user have the choice. Give the option to hide or not hide.

Nice - perhaps we also need something for specific clients (but of course that is up to the creators of those clients to create).

"Weed" is more fungible than BTC so SWIM says

when will the asset exchange finally released?

yes i also would like to know this. does anyone have any news?

[1] - Could somebody send me some text NxT for Wesley's web interface testnet use ? (When I try to use the 'send test NXT link, I receive an error: "amountNQT" not specified")

[2] - I'm trying to register an asset (using same interface) but get an error when I do so. Is there a guide for the asset registration somewhere that I can use to familiarise myself ?

Thanks !

There was a bug in the code that was released a couple days ago. A new version just came out today that supposedly fixes it. You should download & install the latest version.

I don't have any Test Nxt, but keep asking around and someone will send you some.

Can I have test nxt? 

10443250249692031652

Thanks

I definitely want to buy a couple of these coins.

I can seem to find a good answer for this. What is the ETA on the asset exchange? I see this as the next major developmental milestone for NXT.

I believe ~3-4weeks.

Is the Nxt Wallet (official NXT client) also available for Linux?
On http://nxtclients.org/ I found only downloadable versions for Mac/Win.

Block 135,000. It is in about 17 days :) there is a countdown here http://www.nxtcommunity.org/

It will be a big milestone in the crypto world, it enables so much more than an exchange ;D

I don't think has been ported across yet. Try offspring, it is quite popular I think and the functionality is the same.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Please follow this thread and someone will probably help you momentarily:

https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=806.msg12385#msg12385

I use the "official" client and once that is set up with the proper Java thingy, it's very easy to use. Everything is managed through your web browser, which connects to the Java program running locally on your computer. Eventually, you will just have to download the zip file, unpack it, then double click on "run.sh" to start the program. Then launch a browser window and go to http://127.0.0.1:7875/

If you have more questions, please post on the Nxt forum or in this thread.

^ I just posted there a simple command sequence that works for me in Ubuntu in order to 1) Install Java, 2) Install the basic NRS software, 3) Get it running.

In any case, I've heard there's a new (experimental, if you want) NRS version including wesleyh's client interface coming out anytime.

Yup, it is due tomorrow.

roughly 2 weeks left. The buzz will start soon...

Hi. Sorry trying to catch up in this thread.

Will the Asset Exchange be fully automated exchange in terms of cryptocurrency?

I want LTC for USD or LTC for BTC?

From what I've read it works like Ripple but without Ripple tokens? Does this even use NXT?

I have asked James, the guy who runs the multisig subforum I Pm'd to you, to drop buy with an up to date and most accurate answer  ;D

It is feasible to have tokens on the Asset Exchange directly for anything but trust in the issuer will be required. James' work is built on the asset exchange but he has been working on cross chain transactions so LTC/BTV might be available at launch or soon after. James projects move fast and are co-mingled so it is quite hard to keep up so he is always the best person to ask  :D

Have you read anything about InstantDEX yet?

Thank you for this. I hate to be the guy who doesn't sift through all the info for answers. But I'm trying at least! :/

No problem! How goes it in the BC thread? Has there been any of the planned super secret features announced yet? Snoekip and Rat4 might do something (they are unknown quantities to me) but that dzirberm (sorry for spellings) is just blowing smoke  :D If they do launch anything, they will be paying catch up  ;D But let me know if/when anything big comes out.

You should read about the monetary system on nxtforum, coins can be based on the Nxt platform too. I'll stop rambling but BC could basically be secured by Nxts blockchain as well as any other crypto. Then the inflation wouldn't be needed as an incentive to stake (known as forging in these parts  ;D).

Hello. I will try to answer your questions.

crypto deposits to multigateway will automatically credit your NXT account with the corresponding NXT assets that represent that crypto. This asset can then be freely traded within the NXT AE. Whoever ends up with it can then withdraw the asset to their designated crypto wallet.

Peercoin and its forks dont currently support multisig, so cant support them with the multisig protection.

There isnt a single large sweep account like most centralized exchanges have. Instead, each user gets a customized multisig deposit address. The only way funds are allowed to be withdrawn is if all three multigateway servers agree 100% on the transaction. Assuming there are no troubles, withdraws should be automatic, but it is quite possible that some manual intervention will be needed, especially at the beginning and for large amounts. However, with all of the funds spread out across all the accounts and each with multisig, I expect they wont be a very attractive target for hackers.

So, the concept is similar to ripple, but instead of needing to trust the gateway to not lose your funds, multsig accts that are publicly viewable allow people to verify that the multigateway's total deposits matches the total issued assets.

James

Thanks James  :D

While I am here, for anyone wondering what Asset Exchange will do, here is a real world plan for once it is launched  :D



TL:DR   Software key issuance and management can be done on AE. Cheaply and securely. RE: asset quantities, the maximum Asset quantity that can be issued is 1 Billion.

We were the sponsor of Dogecoin. But it's fun things like that I love about BC. I don't think anything "big" in terms of what NXT is doing. BC is heading a different direction focusing on awareness, merchants, and exchanges. But I wouldn't be surprised if rat4 or "I forget his name" so I'll call him Community Manager or up to something. And then of course there's Iconic. I think a lot of people secretly love his "gray area" tactics but don't want to say on forum. He's our wildcard.  :-\

Apparently having higher inflation is the "newest" thing. BC 1%, WC 2%, Yellowcoin & Cinni 3.5%, I think Bluecoin 3%. I just let those groups argue what is better.

Right now I'm spending most of my effort figuring out what the hell to do with my WC investment.


Disclaimer: My reading comprehension might be totally off today about the following questions. :/

Thanks for taking the time to do this, James. But what you said is like "Woosh" It's all too technical. So I buy 1 license for (1 NXT is $0.02) for $20? And where does this $20 go? Can these licenses be traded? Can it be refunded or parameters changed if no buyer matches?

So then I have an asset license of "Selling 1 LTC for $20". Then I wait for a match. Is that automatic or do I have confirm manually later?

Max Asset quantity 1 billion is per person? And it can be refilled to 1 billion?

Sorry, I confused you there. James isn't involved with what I quoted, he won't know about it but may be able to answer none the less. The OP for that can be found here: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ethereum-maidsafe-nxt-anything-else-worth-investing-in-in-2014.303978/page-2

It is one billion per asset, a person can issue as many assets as they like. Once the number is issued, it can't be chaneged for that asset. You can also read the Asset Exchange subforum here for a lot of background: https://nxtforum.org/asset-exchange/

Finally, you can also try the asset exchange yourself to work out the mechanics of it here on the testnet: http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/.
PM me your account number and I'll arrange for testNXT to be sent to your account.

can someone explain what are the big difference between nxt asset exchanges and xcps or mastercoins distributed exchanges?

despite running on your own chain, with a smaller confirmation time?

NXT has a lot of innovative stuff coming out....yet the price just drops like a stone....right or wrong the inital IPO is killing NXT

I agree, it's very interesting. I think there are a couple ways to look at it though. One is that the price is sinking like a stone, the other is that there were a few major hype cycles that took it well above where it should have been. It's still trending up a lot from its initial launch.

Lol! You people crack me up.  Have you guys noticed that there are a few more coins besides Nxt that are going down in price.... Peercoin, Ripple, Dogecoin, Mastercoin... Litecoin.... Bitcoin.  Seriously people.  The initial IPO doesn't MATTER and has nothing to do with the price drop!  It could have started with 3 stakeholders or 5000 stakeholders and the end results would be the same.  If people want Nxt to be mass adopted (that is used by millions if not hundreds of millions of people), than could someone please explain the difference between an IPO of 5 people vs 73 people vs 10,000 people?  It's purely psychological/emotional.  All I read about involving Nxt (and others) on these forums is "fair distribution" this, "unfair distribution" that.... You people are killing me.  'Unfair' is just a made up word that people can apply to any situation that they feel at a disadvantage.  Uhh... Not to mention, I believe Nxt has already achieved a better distribution than bitcoin.

And jubalix, although I disagree with you on why the price is going down, I'm not saying you believe all this (don't know if you do or not).  I just can't stand all the people that complain about the initial distribution without looking at the facts or thinking anything through.

They are right, not to recognise that NXT has been severely damaged by people perceptions of 'fairness' of the distribution is not to recognise the bigger picture. yeah most coins are down, but early on NXT was swimming against the flow no problem.

NXT should be 5-10 times the price it is now if based simply on the innovation of the system. If NXT had a perceived better distribution then people wouldt of run to NEM and other clones. I can't see a price rise coming until NEM and other major clones are out and people can reappraise the situation and value.

i just try to remind people that the lack of "fairness" in the distribution is what payed for nxt development. a more "fair" coin would never have come into existence because it would have never raised the funds necessary to finance its development. all of these other people who just copy that hard work of the nxt developers and claim that their coin is more "fair" isn't fair at all because all of those people who payed for the tech to be developed that they are using are being ripped off (in an abstract way). im sorry but i just wont get into a nxt clone that doesnt actually innovate and only claims to be more "fair" because ripping off all the people who payed for that software to be developed isnt fair at all.

I agree with the second part and I think that the free market has a way of working these things out over time. If it 'should' be 5-10X what it is, then it will be eventually.

Ok. Will definitely give this a shot when I have time. Yea that's probably easier than asking so many questions.

Very valid point you state here. Never thought about "the distribution issue" from this point of view. 

I heard of Nxt just a few weeks ago, so I missed the very cheap ones. I´m very excited about the news and that could give thme a big kick I think.

With all due respect, I think they are still pretty cheap... 1,9 US cents per coin is very low, and will eventually rise once Asset Exchange picks up speed imo.

If anyone wants testNxt to have a go on the testNet before the official release, you can PM me but there are also quicker options, listed below with the fastest first:

1) Post you account number in the textNXT request thread here: https://nxtforum.org/testnet/some-testnxt-to-test-asset-exchange/new/#new

2) Post your account number here and ask someone to cross post it onto the thread above.

3) PM me you account number and I will request it when I check in (once or twice a day)


Very important point! DO NOT reuse passwords from Nxt on the testNet and in any Nxt clones for that matter.  You make yourself vulnerable to a Clone Attack. Anything that uses the same transaction format as Nxt (including testNet and all lazy clones) can make your Nxt vulnerable to theft. You protect yourself by using a different passphrase for every Nxt, testNet and Nxt Clone account you use.

For more details on how this very simple attack works, see the entry "Clone Attack" in the Nxt Glossary >>>> http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Glossary

It will answer a lot of your questions on asset exchange (asset issuance for a stock, for example) but not so much on the multisig (asset trading) as it is not part of the testNet. But understanding what is and isn't possible in how an asset is issued is a foundation for understanding the multisig side, as multisig creates assets of whatever you tranfer in.

I hope so.

Anyone looking at this thread might want to look at the Nxt Official Thread, here on BTT. It tells you what features will be live next (in addition to Asset Exchange) and when they are being launched. It is the front page of Nxt and is self moderated to be a nice clean place for anyone to find out more about Nxt and ask questions, trolls will have to use this thread or any of the other dozen or so unmoderated Nxt threads  :D :D  :D :D

The next feature to be added to the list is Digital Goods Store. It is a decentralised exchange of anything digital, built on Asset Exchange and the Nxt Blockchain.

You can find the Nxt Official thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=587007.0

can I have some NXT here 18242316890267726200 ?

1M NXT on your way!!!  ;)
 
On the other hand:


GO AE GO!!  :D

It is live!!!!!

AE is alive!!!

Reports says scammers are already targeting dotsforbits and vircurex, AE is under siege  :D :D As expected  :D

Education is the only defence, spread the word to keep people safe:

Rule 1) Don't buy anything on AE without checking with the source of the Asset issuer.
Rule 2) DON'T buy anything on AE without checking with the source of the Asset issuer.
Rule 3) Get the asset ticker and Nxt Account number of the asset issue from the source and use these to find legitimate Assets.
Rule 4) If it is too good to be true, it probably is  ;D
Rule 5) If in doubt, post on nxtforum.org for more information.

Chances are people are going to get caught out. It can't be prevented, only minimised

AE works great :)

+1440 :D

Same here!! NXT Asset Exchange for the win!

I've the last official mac wallet version, but I can't begin to forge because the blockchain is not able of download the last parts. What can I do?

Wait longer

restart wallet

restart mac and start wallet

The MAC wallet has been updated, makes sure you are running the latest version from here: http://nxtra.org/nxt-wallet/

didn't receive it yet   :-[
did I give the wrong ID?  ???

Sorry but I think he was joking, 1M Nxt is the equivalent of $30,000

Unless you are joking too?  :D

I have a question:
It's possible to sell diferent kind of assets in the same asset? ie:phones,clocks,etc--

how to do that?

I was just kidding mate, I haven't got 1M NXT, sorry....

Anyway, you can get some free NXT here:

NXTRA FAUCET:

http://nxtra.org/faucet/ (http://nxtra.org/faucet/)

And here:

http://freenxt.org?ref=326
 (http://freenxt.org?ref=326)

You are welcome!

Hope not  :-\

yeah, he did

With a gateway, or you can wait for the physical goods store !

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/could-the-physical-goods-store-be-the-world%27s-first-decentralized-free-market/

A bounty has been set-up and a dev is working on it right now.

+1440

FREE silver token give away on the Nxt Asset Exchange from Anon136!

Get in line quick!!!! >>>>> https://nxtforum.org/silver-bullion-gateway/silver-token-giveaway-thread-%28share-this-link%29/

 :D :D :D

AE go go go!   :D


NXT Market Report
http://nxter.org/nxt-market-report-120514/

Alias transfer "feature is ready and under testing now"


Soon, Nxt Aliases will be transferable  :)


Source: https://nxtforum.org/alias-system/alias-transfer/msg19869#msg19869

How are the scam listings going to treated going forward, meaning, do they just stay there indefinitely, or do they get voted off at some stage?

BTW To all the contributors of the AE, well done you. Its a breeze to use, and for that reason alone, will attract much use.  ;) 

Hello. I'm trying to sell some of my Nxttycoins on AE and whatever I do, no matter how much I'm selling and with what fee, it says "Not enough funds". Why?

For each order you have to be able to pay 1Nxt fee.

Thank you, it's good to know, but still I can't

Screenshot?

http://www.picshare.ru/uploads/140513/HYiiY1i0L2_thumb.jpg (http://www.picshare.ru/view/4493704/)
http://www.picshare.ru/uploads/140513/4m4M1mIJYx_thumb.jpg (http://www.picshare.ru/view/4493707/)
I also cannot transfer.

not 100% sure but maybe you have to give it a day after 1440 confirms before you can sell it.

OK, I'll wait. But others could do it, there are a lot of orders.
Can it be because I used the same account number in NAS registration? Maybe there were some sanctions?

Just a few questions  ;D:
What version of NRS are you running? There was a bug where it couldn't get past certain blocks in early 1.x versions. Upgrade to v 1.1.2 here >>> https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/.

If that doesn't fix it, What block are you up to? Current block is around 135790. Let me know if you blockchain is up to date.

Finally, create a new Nxt or NAS account and transfer one of the balances you have out to it. Don't use the same password in Nxt and in any clone. It is unsafe and it is thought that a Clone Attack could be possible (see Clone Attack here >>> https://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Glossary). Come-from-Beyond says this is possible and a couple of guys are working on proving this.

If the clone doesn't change the transaction format from the one used in Nxt, there is a chance you could lose your NXT. So best to use different passwords for everything.

I'm using v 1.1.2, current block 135815, blockchain downloaded smoothly and everything is up to date, I think. Maybe later I will try another client. Thank you for precautions, I transferred my nxt balance.

Is there a possibility for asset issuer to ban or restrict me somehow?

I am not aware of any restrictions like that, I am out of ideas  ;D I will link this post to get the devs to take a look for you.

That'l be it  ;D

Any interaction with the blockchain requires a fee, just so it isn't free for attackers to spam and bloat the blockchain. The fee will be reduced to as low as possible to prevent spamming from happening in the near future.

Thank you!

If I want to put a buy-sell order in any asset at AE, Will it cost me 1NXT fee although it doesn't get filled?

yes

Yes. This is why jl777 created InstantDEX (shares listed on the Nxt Asset Exchange yesterday). You only pay for the orders that get filled.

I believe it is a sort of off blockchain clearing house for bids/asks so you don't interact with the blockchain until you get a match with someone else, it should be popular with traders once out of beta.

the story of james and the nxt community https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGItQtOcfvM

So is nxt going to be the nex best thing?
Nas (coin) looks like nxt also.
So who is really gonna be the bigger?

nas is a clone that's why it looks like nxt. there are many clones of nxt already I can't even keep up anymore.

NAS is only a shitty clone! Curious what will become of NXTL and NFDv2

Is there a search for asset button or did i miss it ?
Also i find putting very very very long password into log out (stop forging a real pain) as i dont mine or want to use my bandwidth.
Can you do exchange without having to mine ?
thx

Search for assets here.... http://nextblocks.info/#section/assets_exchange

You dont need to enter the password again, if you have ticked the box when you first logged in.

Dude nxt is 2Kool thx will post it on NEM thread.

Sorry if the answer is somewhere here in the thread, can't find it. Is the dividend feature already implemented?

I think it is still in an early stage and needs more testing, but have a look at this:

https://nxtforum.org/nxtservices-releases/calculate-and-send-dividends-on-mainnet

Thank you,
but basically you can pay out the dividends manually now, right? Might be a stupid question but I would like to be sure

Yeah you can already pay them out manually, but I suppose it's quite a hassle to find all asset holders and calculate the dividend.

Anyone can please send me some test net Nxt tokens? About 10K will do. Thanks.

Test Net Account :  NXT-FG8T-P7WH-WCEB-DJ3T3

I've asked in the testnet thread on Nxtforum >>> https://nxtforum.org/testnet/some-testnxt-to-test-asset-exchange/new/#new

Thanks Daedelus!

You should have it soon. Are you planning on testing anything specific or just looking around?  ;D

Is there a script that can ascertain the movement of (Assets) NEM tokens / kinda like a rich list / it would be most interesting
Thanks

Take a look here https://nxtforum.org/asset-exchange-general/asset-richlist/new/#new

You can search the forum for Nxt dividends by jl777 if you want to follow it up  ;D

Hello, I'm quite new to NXT assets, is it possible to see dividends received in "my transactions" in NXT wallet or are they shown as normal sends ?

It's just a normal incoming transaction of NXT.
But some assets distribute dividends as more asset units, those look like an asset transfer transaction.

Ok, thanks. That's like in the traditionnal stock exchanges where you sometimes can choose between dividend in cash or in stocks.

Would be nice to have those dividends flagged somehow to give some clarity, but I guess it's on the roadmap of the future NXT improvements.

They are working on AE v2 with improvements, hopefully we'll see more bells and whistles soon :)

*

It's probably not the place to say this but a assets transaction history (with the price and quantity paid) would be nice too. Although nxtreporting is somehow doing that already

Is there an API for the NXT asset exchange?

try asking here: www.nxtforum.org

Make sure that ur time is synced.

Alright. Whats going on here.

I wanted to buy NEM. So i created an account on the Next Asset Exchange. I copy the Nxt Adress Details, fill them in on Poloniex and do the withdrawal.

Then I get logged off SAE, i log in again and My Nxt adress has changed? Including the public Key.

Now Poloniex Says the withdrawal is complete, but my balance is still 0 on SAE...

Meanwhile, I've logged on the the SAE again and again I have a new Nxt Adress?...

It keeps on renewing? Where is the old adress and what happened to the Nxt i sent to it?

are you certain you used the same password on your second login?
SAE is a third party service. i don't know how they handle their stuff, but in the normal nxt client people often fail with their passwords. when you change even 1 letter/add a white space or flip two letters etc. you will create a new account.

in case SAE handles this like the normal client, below is a typo checker by jones (a respected member over at the nxtforum). it will try combinations based on the password you give it.

http://jnxt.org/typo/

Where to list assets?
Where to find assets on bitcointalk?

There is
Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Announcements (Altcoins)
BUT assets are not allowed there, only coins.

As you can see in my 2 preliminary analyses (CAC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=981128.msg10708354#msg10708354) and CMC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=981128.msg10709843#msg10709843)) there are not only hundreds of assets by now, no some dozens of them are actually being traded in considerable volumes.

Isn't it time for a new subforum
Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Announcements (Assets & Platforms)
to announce & discuss new assets, and all the base platforms to trade assets-on-the-blockchain...

?

Why do I ask? I am planning to create an asset "AltSheets Altfolio Asset" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=981128.0)
to sell some of all future profits with my software (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978804), and I am doing my research right now.

And today I noticed that my thread had been moved
- which is totally fine for me, I am truly sorry that I had put it into the wrong place.
However, of all the wrong places, actually, I thought I had already chosen the best one.

Is the niche "asset" missing here in this forum?

What do you think?

Shall I perhaps open a new discussion thread about this topic?
In "meta" or in "Altcoin Discussion" ?

Thx!!


EDIT: yes, I started a thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=988034

lots of assets have ann threads in the ann section...i see no issue with it so far  ;D

not anymore.

I just checked the first ~10 pages, and all (but one) assets seem to have been moved. Away.
Not to some dedicated place, just "away" ;-)

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