Bitcoin Forum

The last four months that I have been on this forum have been a whirlwind of trading and going insane with crypto currencies. It seems I am probably Cryptsy's biggest money generator.

It has been nuts as I have watched a seemingly endless line of crypto currency be announced, mined, dumped, pumped and redumped.

I just opened Crypto-market cap again for the 10000th time http://coinmarketcap.com/

I sorted by market cap and something really hit me. It wasn't that there are now 102 coins on the site and a few months ago there were far less. What blew me away is how pathetically worthless most of the coins on the list are. It is GAME OVER and most communities don't know it. So many of these coins of lost hope have been 10 times higher in the last four months alone. So many were "major coins" at one point and now are worth absolutely nothing and will never be worthy anything EVER.

Megacoin, oh what happened to your 50 million cap!?!?!? Quark the darling of crypto-future a shell of what you once were and dropping like a pre-mined rock. Primecoin!!! oh the great primecoin going nowhere since forever.... Feathercoin oh the humanity!!!, pumped from the cellar to a pathetic 8 million. Ripple, dear God Ripple and its pathetic, pathetic, 73k in volume!!!!!! insert me laughing for an hour, pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

And yet each has their own straggling communities of desperate hope and lost dignity. These walking-dead communities actually still believe that they will rise to be Bitcoin or even just a small piece of Bitcoin. IT WILL NEVER HAPPPEN. You won't be Bitcoin and what is worse for you is that you won't even be Dogecoin :(  Watching Kittehcoin try to have any community on Reddit in the face of Dogecoin's tens of thousands is worth a laugh and then a cry.

I wish there was a virtual executioner that would purge the world of these dead coins that only bring shame to their followers.

Good God Franko, Mooncoin, anoncoin, copperlark, RonPaulCoin!!!! i feel guilty just reading your names next to your tiny little market caps. I hope you all just disappear quietly into the virtual night.

Hahahaha! I really like how you put this all together, its great!  :D

Little too much coffee?

Time, my friend. I'm hoping that time will weed these shitcoins out. The influx of worthless coins is changing the market. Some of these coins are going to collapse. If we're lucky they will die entirely and let some activity back into the solid ones

STFU , you've been for 4 pathetic months, wherelse there are people around you that have been here for years mining, selling cryptos and moving with whats happening, and here comes prophet Who gives a fuck with his shitty bold prediction that it's game over. Like the other guy said probably , a little to much coffee  :D

Poor Johnny knows nothing about economics .

Oh well.

Johnny put your money where your mouth is what are you investing in tell the good people what a good investment looks like in Johnnys mind ?


* hey I'm bored ?

Do not blame the coins, blame the people.

No.  The game is just beginning.  You just need more patience.

Quark the dead Crypto with the largest most active community and 30 second confirms that make the Gox issue, a non issue in the Wall St Journal.


http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-MBB-16395


* yes bored an like to poke the noobs.

Yes, You are right.

On many websites people are trying to sell their asic and power-cpu for the half of the price and less. Prices are decreasing each week. It is a sign.

And, more, on an other 'crypto' talk forum, someone is launching, with different names, the same coin, always a scrypt/50/500 mil/5% premined, two times a day.

Last month, a team launched a SHA-2 copy of Doge, the Continuum coin with a nice logo, a real technical team, etc.

Problem is that 'hard' miners try to sell this coin three days later and its value collapsed of course.

I computed its current value, with a diff greater than 500,000, it is 6,600 CTM for 1 - one - Doge and a BTC value of 0.00 000 000 024 for this coin, which means 3,500,000 CTM for 1 USD.

Even with billion(s) of coins, it will stay a no value coin, a zero marketcap one. Problem is that, with this diff range, an antminer makes only 8,000 coins a day which means more than one year with 24/7 running hardware/software for one USD. Go on street and look on the ground, you will find a $1 coin more easily.

People are still mining but crypto currencies are dying.

It was the same for pc-games. One of them had success 20 years ago, companies made 100+ clones and industry collapsed. Three years after, it restarts, so wait three years and do not mine or invest because here, it is not a game, it is money, and Banks and Governments have the power to kill e-currencies.

Have a nice day, I will drink another cup of coffee...  ;)

agreed

iCoin just stepped up into elite status yesterday imo.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=407866

You are just butthurt because you did not manage to get on any Altcoin train! So stop crying around like a pussy and get a job and then invest some money into Altcoins!

I sold out of alt-coins a while back when I saw the inevitable collapse.

Too many alt-coins that all have to share the same investor money. Too many alt-coins being made which offer nothing different than another.
The growth rates of the coins were way too high to sustain the current price when miners come in to profit from them.

I have not looked at the coins in a couple of weeks but can't believe some of the prices.

Stable coin .014 cents lol

Cryptogenic bullion .67 cents, I lost $100 bucks on this coin. This coin deserves to die anyway because you have the creator making it out to seem like it is different than all the garbage.

World Coin .14 cents. I knew this crap was going to go under for a long time. Those jerks think the name "world coin" is really going to set it off.

All these coins deserve to die. The community are made up of a bunch of greedy idiots who think their coin is worth ridiculous prices but do not want to hear anything to the contrary.

Look at me have a good laugh at the Ron Paul Coin community here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389070.msg5114725#msg5114725

Excellent post.

I feel like all copy-cat coins should die already.

The only ones that stand out are LTC, Doge because of it's community and easy reach to new people, vertcoin because it's new and original, Protoshares, as the other good cpu coin. The rest can just be the same coin with a different name basically. Give up already.

Also, what's the point in making designs of actual coins for the crypto's? Isn't the whole idea of cryptos that they are going to be all digital in a future where we can use our currency with our smartphones etc?

I see many people spending way too much time in designing logos for actual coins of their coin. Ridiculous.

Quark is no where near dead. Some of the other major coins do seriously lack community. It's amazing that they're still so high up. This is all base off of reddit user base numbers.

Altcoins have utility and serve a good purpose; hence they will always have some value.

1. They in many cases develop new tech
2. They serve as technological testbeds...you can see what happens when a 51% attack occurs, etc without the destruction it would cause to the bitcoin network.
3. They're fun :)

dogecoin will be part of this list of useless fail cryptos.

It's funny how everyone is hating on dogecoin, did people do this on the early phases of litecoin too?

Dogecoin is amazing if you consider how many new people it has brought into cryptos. The reddit community is one of the friendliest and biggest ever. They are going to surpass r/bitcoin in a couple of months easily.

I'm just gonna lay back and laugh at the haters once dogecoin surpasses litecoin in market value.

I see where Johnny is confused -

he thinks Crypto's are dead - when he actually was trying to say the SCRYPT has finally been cracked and is dead.

all the flood are 80% basic Scrypt , and why would that be ?

maybe because its where the new monopoly is, i.e there are ASICs out but no one has them - this is basically BFL all over again - so they have to pump these out to really take advantage-

that's all that has happened , so what,  SCrypt is dead who cares ?

innovation will continue -

Only pussies get scared.  ::)

My beloved PROSPERCOIN is alive i tell you alive..... And doing well slowly on poloniex.com stop scaring me lol

That won't happen the fundamentals are flawed for Dogecoin to be taken as a seriously competitor to Litecoin.


its a clonecoin and the creator even admits it .

I HATE YOU sorry about that

Peace to you my forlorn crypto brother

fundamentals?!??!??! what the hell is a crypto fundamental, holyyyyyyy shizzzzz!??!?!?!?

Here is my fundamental: google crypto currency, count # of unique hits for each coin in first 100 hits, then have the crypto execution kill other coins. Repeat this cycle every six months.

+1 we are kindred, peace to you and your offline wallet

The PROSPERCOIN wallet download link is broken. The coin will die unless someone fixes the link.

This is a great post, thanks!  I agree that most alt coins will wind up in the dustbin of history.  It is too bad there is no way to just shut them down.  Maybe if coinmarket cap will limit the number of coins it lists to 100 or something that will be a de facto sign of demise.

The key to a coin is not really technical innovation but rather building up an infrastructure around it.  People love to hate on Doge but the simple fact that this coin build up a community and infrastructure, despite, or maybe because, it was a joke has given it some staying power.  Not saying it will prevail, but it looks like a survivor, not because of that stupid dog but because people built sites to use it.  Something like Huntercoin with a game built into the client might work, if the developer team could figure out a way to scale things as more and more users join (which is probably going to kill HUC).

Good Luck!

Yes websites need to move zero volume dead coins to page two with a bunch of dead links

Exchanges need to have front-page and the cellar :)

OP, so you are a day trader. And you want that coins that don't allow YOU to profit, just die...

I get it.

Speculators are just a small part of the crypto scene.

Someone will figure out how to make a fortune by killing altcoins, like the middlecoin model.

Me think.

Sorry, but for this I don't need an analyzing tool. You see that when you check what they do and/or how most of the coins communicate. No surprise here.

but I don't get your "Game Over" statement... ppl have to play around with it, learn from failures of others before they come up with really better concepts.. so where is your problem?

Don't all creators do that?  $100?  OMG...OMG...OMG.

I have no problem. However, alt speculation is a constant pump and dump joke where people actually believe in their silly holy grails of cryptology.

1. Don't get emotional about your fave coin
2. be able to walk away when it is clearly dead
3. Stop believing and trumpeting that some magic crypto wizard feature  is gonna one day convert the masses
4. If you are purely a scammer well then maybe you feel smug as you look at the graveyard of coins you have pumped and dumped, to these people, rot in hell
5. For all normal humans just have fun and don't take this crypto craziness too seriously

Peace :)

uhhhhhh Litecoin was the first scrypt based coin.. none other existed to hate on.
In contrast i posted July 13th 2013 in this forum a joke coin i never actually made called BunnyCoin = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258208.msg2753177
What is funny is the description i used 8 months back is the same as what Doge coin is !
and the fact that it was such a common on goin *aggravating issue a year ago should tell ya something.. if not people are brain dead blind delusional Doge Tards..

and OP your on the money i think.. i agree !

these other guys (or girls) mouthing you off are spreading the usual crap.. ohhh your just jealous or your so mad lol
ya ya heard them all before.. changes nothing.
Your crappy shit scam coin clone is still a crappy shitty little scam coin clone.

Don't like the complaints ? Then quit making them and quit supporting them and quit begging for pools and quit asking for them to be added to exchanges.

Closest thing i think that match's what you asked for would be BCX maybe ? he has taken some coins to their knee's lol

But what we need to do is hunt down the coin cloners and beat their ass.. that might help  ;D
I hope to god all fanboys of Doge coin etc lose all their money.. they deserve it.

and my fav is hey don't take it too seriously after all it's just money.. and the threat of jail time etc etc LOLOL
tell that to the guys arrested by the FBI from LocalBitcoins in Florida last week or the many people who have lost vast amounts of money.
Every time some coin cloner said that to me before as his excuse why he made a shit coin i wanted to punch him the fucking face hahaha

it's so much easier make crypto compared fiat ;)

Seems to me that you are mad that you bought at the wrong point in time and didn't have the nerves or patience to hold until buy-in price is reached again. I don't know how many times I lost $100 through a coin going down, such is life. Cgb is far from dead and will rise again. Not many coins out there are so mature and have such low inflation and maintenance cost. Now would be a good time to buy back in, you will not regret it  :D

Yeah I like CGB, I would mine that before doge. Got me some CGB sitting in a wallet just maturing... what does doge have? Yeah nothing more than what I can get with 50 other coins minus all the dickheadedness from the community.

Litecoin is just a clone of Tenebrix  ::)

Doge has a large and rather positive community, as well as the ability to recruit new users that else would not bother with crypto. That is an immense strength which, at least for a while, completely overrides the fact that the actual coin behind it is, well, nothing special at all, and still in it's heavily inflationary infancy like most cryptos.

Heck, combine DOGE and CGB and we would have an awesome killer-coin rocketing to the moon and beyond ;D

I would agree that CGB isn't dead, I'm pretty sure its price is getting directly influenced from Bitcoin which has been doing poorly lately.

What does a mature crypto coin look like? Does an offline paper wallet help my coins mature faster than the one on my PC or mobile phone?

Although Tenebrix was the first Scrypt coin Litecoin was much more than a clone.  Litecoin borrowed the best features from lots of coins to try and create something unique.  I think they did that very well.

Dogecoin is actually a clone of Foocoin.  The creators used a howto guide on the web to create a clone. They are fairly honest about all this.  The life of the coin is supposed to mirror the life of the Gangnam meme which was about 12 months.  They just never expected it to become so popular.

http://www.csimpson.com.au/freelance/dogecoin/ (http://www.csimpson.com.au/freelance/dogecoin/)

Seems like you may have misunderstood, I meant mature as a currency while Edward50 was talking about the maturing of held coins, generating POS interest.
I define a mature crypto currency as one that has been established in the market for some time, as well as being past the heavily inflationary mining stage and at a point where inflation and maintenance cost (value of coins mined daily) are minimal, thus preserving value even long-term.

Edit: Of course preservation of (and rise in) value will always be at the mercy of supply and demand, however, inflation by mining can be thought of as a constant current additionally trying to pull the price down. And we want to avoid that, don't we? :D

Attempt at humor wasted....

You and the OP aren't making profit on alts, of course you will agree.

Do you honestly believe most even care if the coin they are mining or trading is a pre-mined, cloned "dead" shitcoin, as long as they can profit from it? As long as they do, of course you will get lots of "fanboys"

That said, claiming that a coin is bad just because one can't profitably trade or mine it, is pathetic and to be disregarded. Primecoin for example was the first with "useful" Proof of Work

I am sorry for your loss.

@DieJohnny You haven't been around very long have you?

Nothing will be Betacoin....

I am a wise sage from another dimension and have the power of foresight gifted to me by time endless when compared to the satoshi moment of your earth life

Very good work

His name is not Johnny - he want Johnny to be dead :)

A good investment has these qualities:

1. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy as you think about your asset sitting wherever you have placed it for protection
2. Is something that you worked extremely hard to obtain
3. Will have value to you that is guaranteed to increase every minute of every day
4. Gives back to you 100 times more than you ever put into it

Yes, it is so clear to me now, my wife and my kids are the best investment..... ;)

Its been Game Over for quite a while with all the premined scamming clone coins.

But as long as there are Noobs buying off the scamming Devs, Miners and Exchanges, expect more of the same as we hit Alt Coin # 300+.

From an  investment standpoint, I have to admit I do not mind seeing the premined pump-and-dump Worldcoins Quarkcoins, Megacoins,
Earthcoins, Kittehcoins etc, totally pollute and hijack that Crypto Market Cap List.

For ultimately, these worthless crap coins make the original Alts like Litecoins and Peercoins stand out as THE legitimate and serious
and innovative cryptos, after Bitcoin.

So to all you brainless Devs who bring absolutely no innovation to a premined/instamined coin, and to all those pre-teen Miners living in Moms
basement and to all the Crappy 3rd-tier exchanges happily adding HerpesCoin... I happily say to you all "Keep up the Good Work!!!"

Altcoins are effectively the 'marketplace of ideas' where new concepts and challenges of launching, sustaining and managing a cryptocurrency are being experimented with. In the early phases, there were very few ideas about how a Bitcoin-alike should function -- now you have many different variants, with hopefully more to come that provide true differentiation.

Are there too many 'junk coins'? Sure, because so many are nothing more than 'another coin with a different name' or a venal attempt to cash in on the crypto-craze with a quickie pump-and-dump. But many of them bring innovation and test different theories of virtual currency economics. Look at the success of DOGE as an example -- it started effectively as a 'joke' but is continuing as a 'serious' crypto. Directly copying that, however, as CAT and KITTEH have attempted to do isn't going repeat DOGE's charm or success (sorry cat-fanciers!)  because the community supporting it sprung up organically via Reddit and supported the coin without a concerted effort to do so. But analysing why it has succeeded thus far is a good way to consider how to launch other cryptos, or how to improve current ones.

Or consider HunterCoin, another interesting 'proof of concept' which brings something entirely new to the table -- a coin with a built-in game and economic engine.

the tl;dr: some altcoins may be bad; but many are useful, even if not successful.

I Agree. coinmarketcap.com should only list coins that have a marketcap over 1 million, or top 100 coins with biggest marketcaps. That way the list would be a lot less bloated.

Yes

good you mentioned dogecoin - biggest crapcoin there ever was

It's unfortunate that when people call out warnings the majority are out to shout them down. I mean didn't we see a similar reaction when people said the U.S. economy was about to fall of the cliff? Aren't we seeing that now with the world economy? Most refuse to see the writing on the walls until their faces are being slammed into that wall repeatedly.

You are almost right. There is a but..

But,

No one has the right to decide who should die and who should live except the people. We cant be sure about what's really good for community and what's bad before the community test it.

I want to refer you to historical ages where women had no right to study or vote or even come out of house. In that age, all the people thought that if women has right to do those things, that would be sooo bad for social and community and even their families.

I DONT WANT TO justify these shitcoins, what i say is that please put aside your altcoin executioner, and let's see what will happen. For example, what if dogecoin change it's name/logo to something official and serious ?

All those altcoins will die, if whole people decide on that eventually.

I never used the term shitcoin and I actually tried to be respectful. The executioner idea is more about being painless and helping people say farewell to their failed attachment to dead coins. Each time a coin is pumped and dumped a family is losing their savings, that is how i feel about it.

yeah it will never be worth anything.....oh wait....

This is a key point and a problem with open source peer to peer cryptos, there is no one to pull the plug...

Where is the line drawn then? Active developer, promoter, community members and places to spend a coin aren't enough? Should it also require an exchange be based using a currency in order to be legitimate? Committees, meetings and promotions planned and executed?

I would balk at only one point in your post... how did Franko get to be on your shortlist?

Franko is sadly one of those coins that would feel like putting down a lame horse that really gave it his all. From everything I have read it has been a pretty honest coin with a community of good crypto folks. But man a market cap of under 200k? Just aint gonna happen EVER and is taking up the time and passions of hundreds of devoted followers. Needs a bullet in the virtual head to spare the remaining few their drawn out death of a thousand orphaned blocks.

It doesn't really matter where you draw the line, just publish what the requirements are and if a coin drops below the line, pull the trigger and don't look back.

good point:  OP missed catcoin.

Except the orphan issue is dead... Gravity Well has been implemented... and new life is showing in Franko... no more big miners waiting to rape it, and no more dumpers... value has doubled since the change hit and several exchanges have taken notice and added the coin. While it may look like Franko is on that line, upon closer inspection you might see the dark horse that has done all the right things quietly, ready to make a mainstream push for broad adoption.

http://www.frankos.org/ take a look. I would say now, more than ever, Franko is fortifying itself for the future versus the rest of these failing coins.

you expect these reddiots to know what that is ? lol

also have supported Franko for ages.. i like that one for many reasons

Probably the greatest post ever. Straight from the heart.  ;)

The fact that has a tiny market cap and a high value demonstrate the stability . Do a little math my friend and you can see the practicing in Bitcoin market at this hour .  Large market caps can be very unstable specially in case of Dogecoin with unlimited supply and a lot of money cap for maintaining that price .


Franko = Freedom !  ;D

good posts.

people don't seem to realise when the a coin goes up, the value has to come from somewhere.  similarly, if someone makes a killing off speculation, the money is coming out of another person's pockets.  whatever's being pumped at the moment are easy to spot on coinwarz.  these rallies are nothing but crass manipulation.

few coins are worth what they're actually trading at.  there are no uses for 99% of these coins. 

May the hallowed crypto executioner spare you and all freedom fighters! Long live cold storage!

op can not into class coin.

PeerCoin, getting stinger all the time.

Good post.

no intiendo

http://coinmarketcap.com/ >>>> Nxt coin.. the ONLY coin in the top 16 that is gaining and not falling! coin of the future!

no it's not Tenebrix is based on multicoin's code , Litecoin is based on bitcoin's code .

What i find amazing is the fact that the combined total value of all alt coins has risen over the last few months, even though every few days you see loads of posts citing the demise of alt coins!

I seem to recall seeing that list when the combined total only reached 7billion  but now its sitting at 10.1 Billion.

Things aren't going down, Things are diversifying.

At least thats my perception ^.^

You think so do you?
It maybe a cloned coin to Litecoin.

A few glaring differences.

It's the most marketable Altcoin of them all.

Who do not like dogs?
Perhaps some people who prefer cats to dogs.
I would say there would be even fewer that like neither.

Something else to think about that makes it very marketable is in "Tipping".
Even if each Dogecoin is only a fraction of a cent, to have within the Doge community,
raising funds for worthwhile causes is pretty special.  Its not about hoarding it as a long term investment.
It's based on consumption as with normal fiat currency.  Doesn't matter how it is used up.  Nore does it matter
if the price remains stagnant. Shouldn't that be a function of money?
It should be seen as a compliment to Bitcoin.  Not a competitor.

If you asked a person in the street who had heard of Bitcoins and Alt currencies, yet were still very green in how it works.
Which sounds and looks better as a giveaway or a prize?  (A) .01 of a Bitcoin  or (B) 3,700 Dogecoins.
You may think it is a foregone conclusion.  Yet, remember seeing Mark Dice on Youtube on several occassions tried to swap his 1oz Gold Eagle
for a $20 Us Note and he was even across the road from a coin dealer.  Hilarious, how he had no takers.  Had it been someone informed they would have jumped at it.  Considering the US Fed has been shuffling the Fiat for 100 years as part of everyday use and Gold has been used as an exchange mechanism
and a store of wealth for thousands of years, everyday people are too caught up in themselves to even recognize or understand value.

That means Bitcoin will continue to evolve behind the scenes as it's still in it's infancy.  Dogecoin will continue to be seen as a Tipping Platform as it markets it's lovable Shibe.  Both are complimentary to one another as the real world of consumers couldn't care too hoots about the complexities of the development side as long as it's secure and they can use it to purchase all products and services whenever they want to without the volatility.

In my mind Bitcoin needs friends.  Dogecoin can be that friend.

Cheers markco2

I basically agree with the OP except for a couple of quite fundamental points.

I think that alt coins do have a genuine function as alternatives to Bitcoin. In particular, 2 themes stand out:

[1] -. LIQUIDITY

As we've seen with the Dogue "phenomenon", alt coins with a large supply can provide liquidity to a large market in a way that Bitcoin cannot due to its high coin value (divisibility does not solve this, the problem is due due Bitcoinon's role in the market as the "reserve currency").

The analogue in the fiat economy is gold and the dollar. The US dollar provides day-to-day liquidity - it gets thrown about, traded for goods and services, it's value bobs up and down, loads of it gets printed etc etc. But people do not "park" their savings in the dollar for large lengths of time - they but some asset who's role is more of a store of value than a day to day exchange currency. So it is with bitcoin vs altcoins - just look at the exchanges: they all trade alts against BTC.

For this reason there will always be a need for an alt-coin or two to function as "liquidity agents" for bitcoin. In fact I don't expect to see bitcoin to be used very much in retail, its just to valueable. I expect some other alt coin to take that role in the future.

[2] - TECHNOLOGICAL DIVERSITY

Cryptocurrency technology is so new that we haven't fully explored the strengths and weaknesses of various technological approaches. For that reason alone, coins which diversify the technical properties of Bitcoin will always be candidates for long term growth. The most fundamental diversification is obviously proof or work vs proof of stake. Both have advantages, but they are complimentary approaches in that one covers the other's weaknesses. Bitcoin is heavily dependent on miners in a way that POS is not. It also requires a huge amount of energy to maintain the network. This is a weakness because it gives it a coupling to energy costs.

Its for the second reason that I very much disagree with the OP's citation of Primecoin as one of the "has beens". Primecoin IMO is one of THE most valuable coins on the market at any price. Likeways with Peercoin - these two are created by a development team which put a huge amount of forward thinking into both the technologu and the economics of their use.

Another one which isn't going away anytime soon is NxT. I mention this both because of its high liquidity and technical diversity at the same time. It represents a genuine alternative to the bitcoin network. Although there are criticisms about distribution, these are negligible in relation to its genuine evolutionary advantages - not least the fact that it now has an army of developers building applications for it.

I also don't agree with the OP regarding Quark. This coin has genuine technical diversity, again with liquidity.

So in summary, I agree that most alt coins will drop off the radar fairly quickly, but I don't agree that the concept of "alt coins" is dead.

Andreas Antonopolis puts it best - he says that bitcoin will never be knocked off its pedestal - it has gained too much of a foothold - but that there will be a potential role for "complimentary" currencies in the crypto currency economy.

This is my view as well. By the way if you haven't watched this presentation, it's one of the best I've ever seen regarding the overall 'where we're at with Bitcoin' theme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTPQKyAq-DM

By the way....

Since I've been speaking, the Bitcoin price has gone from $580 to $613.

If it gets through this spell of uncertainty - all the upheaval about 'malleability' and everything else - there's a good chance that Bitcoin will be absolutely untouchable.

Its status as 'reserve currency' will be secured. No other coin has gone 'to hell and back' in such a public way as bitcoin has. It's been kicked, flamed, punched, rolled down a mountain side, spat at, stripped naked and attacked by a legion of robotic and human hackers, all without a scratch.

The confidence that will bring I think will be unmatchable.

So if cryptocurrencies go anywhere at all (and don't just die altogether) what that means is two things:

[1] - there will be 3 categories of coins

 - bitcoin (the reserve)
 - liquidity alt coins (like dogue) for spending on gloves in Overstock
 - alternative networks that can do what bitcoin does more cheaply (like NxT, Etherium, PPC XPM etc)

[2] - bitcoin's valuation will be in the 6 to 7 figure range at least

The 2nd one is simply academic. I'm not saying this will happen, I'm just saying that each time bitcoin survives one of these crises, it's harder to see how any other coin could take its place. So IF cryptocurrencies go mainstream, that's the deal.

I still see it as a comptetion. All these shitcoins together create a giant competition, and that competition will create great coins in the future. Coin that are innovative, actually better or just have great way to become popular (DOGE). Imagine a coin that spreads faster than DOGE and is more innovative than Proof of Stake. There will be one, maybe not soon, but there will be one eventually.

There's a point of diminishing returns for 'technological supremacy'. Coins that appear which are "better" will not necessarily be more popular or more valuable. Once they're good enough to do the job (which Bitcion PPC, XPM etc all are) that will be it. Other things will take precedence like how well supported they are industrially and in the crypto-financial services sector (wallet services, banks, ETF's derivatives, payment processors, etc).

The window for 'technologically superior coins' is closing - if not already closed.

Bitcoin has quite a large profile considering how few people actually use it.   There are about 2 million users and that quite frankly is optimistic.  This is laughably tiny to seriously talk about network effect. There are knitting social networks that are bigger (Ravelry.com has 3M users).  The ones you have heard of have 100s of millions of users. A company with a well established brand, a small technical team and about $10 million for marketing could probably level the entire altcoin market in an afternoon.

It may be tiny but it's enough and it certainly isn't "laughable" considering what the stakes are.

A knitting network doesn't require an infrastructure of mining facilities, wallet services, exchanges, traders and vendors that takes the best part of 5 years to establish, test and secure. Nor is a knitting network a "high risk investment" where a historical track record makes the difference between you trusting your life's savings to it or running a mile.

If there's one thing people don't like experimenting with it's money. Picture a new investor - not a 'crypto-nerd' but a regular joe who talks to his broker about where to put his hard earned cash. Bitcoin has been around for 5 years, he's heard of Bitcoin because he has noted that it's been through "the mill" economically and technologically the last few years and has emerged as the first major cryptocurrency to appear as a tradeable ETF. (ETF's by the way take about 2 or 3 years to get from the drawing board, through all the regulatory red tape and into a market).

What's he going to do ? Put his money into 'this great new crypto that nobody's heard of yet but that is way advanced of Bitcoin technologically ?

No way. Not in a month of Sundays - he's going with the tried, tested and track recorded investment.

Just look at the operating system wars of the 80's for where this is all going - Apple was a generation ahead of MS-DOS but wasn't able to even get near it in terms of market share. Then "Next" was a generation ahead of Apple but couldn't touch it for market share even thouigh Apple was falling to pieces in the hands of Gill Amelio.

So it is with Bitcoin - if it emerges from these crisis, don't expect any contenders to get anywhere near it in valuation. They may in terms of "use" but that doesn't translate into valuation. They are different things as I described above.

By the way. Since I made that first post about 6 hours ago, Bitcoin has added more than $80 to its valuation. Meanwhile, the spread with Gox is now more than $200. So what does this mean ? It means three things:

[1] - what I said above about "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" appears to be taking effect sooner than later

[2] - Bitcoin is de-coupling from the "Gox" effect. Gox's price decay is no longer dragging BTC down on other exchanges

[3] - The events of this January and February are probably a "watershed" period in the history of Bitcoin in the sense that it wil now be far harder for any alt coin to ever challenge Bitcoin's supremacy again (other than being a genuine alternative and complimentary cryptocurrency) unless Bitcoin has some internal technology malfunction which is looking less likely now by the week

@markco2

I am not kidding one bit when i say you scare me.. i think you are so delusional i find it shocking and disturbing.
I could sit here and refute everything you said bit by bit by why bother ? Like i just said.. delusional.

Tell ya what i will conced you are right when all sites that have an LTC/BTC address's posted for donations etc
switch over to Doge/BTC instead i will fly to your door and give you all my Bitcoin !
I will also resurrect any dead relatives you may want brought back to life too ;)

I think you must be new to this stuff because you clearly don't know how this all works.. many of us have watched them all come & go..
You need to be re-educated.. i think the Doge cheerleaders brainwashed you and bribed you with much profits and very Laughs..
See the link in my Sig for the cold hard truth.. Why Doge coin is bad.

I am not trying to attack bitcoin.  I am just pointing out that the largest coin here, has to my mind, no demonstrable network effect and sadly is not trusted by the public. In comparison altcoins are a flea on a mouse's behind.  I am all for competition, but I fear we are just playing for time.

It's your definition of "network effect" in the context of cryptocurrencies that I am challenging.

I don't deny that if you consider "number of users" as a measure of network effect that Bitcoin is minimal. But my point is that number of users is not a very good indicator of how established a cryptocurrency is. You have to look at other things, in particular what role the currency is playing in the cryptocurrency economy.

I would contend that it's far harder to achieve a 'network effect' as a store of value than it is as a medium of exchange and Bitcoin is starting to reach that point. This is largely due to the priority that the exchanges give to it but other things as well such as the massive hashing power that the bitcoin network now has and the amount of time the coin has been around.

These things are a much less volatile and more valuable 'network effect' than number of users. Dogue would probably beat Bitcion on the "users" count but it won't translate into value. Dogue and its like are "liquidity facilitators" - and therefore help Bitcoin by attracting users and investment into the crypto-economy. But Dogue will not be used as a store of value, even if it takes over the world and Amazon and Wallmart accept it.

What I'm ultimately saying is this: The only reason any other cryptocurrency has value is because of Bitcoin. They are all "proxies" for bitcoin, so it doesn't matter which one you invest in as long as it has a conversion to Bitcoin available. When anybody buys an "alt" the value of their investment is measured in BTC. The alt on it's own does not have a value independently of Bitcoin - that's what a 'reserve currency' is.

not true... Nxt is not a proxy of bitcoin and will surpass bitcoin on so many levels!

4 months and yet he already understands the game better than most people do.

https://i.imgur.com/zIF3qlG.jpg

I see dead Altcoins.

Walking around like regular Altcoins. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're dead.

--

The cold hard truth is that some coins end up just hanging on by its die-hard supporters. I'm not talking about the specific cases he mentions, but all too often do I see dead coins on these boards, and the die-hards hoping and believing that they'll rise once again.

Rule one of investing in my experience is emotional detachment.

Some are rising, some are falling and some are dead and don't even know it. The way it has been and always will be.

amazing how little research people put into their investments in the first place.  It's also sad reading some of the threads where noone but the biggest bagholders are left in a self-reinforcing circle jerk of optimism.  

objectively, few altcoins today could withstand a 51% attack with a few hundred mh.  the hashrate is spread too thin and the entire altcoin market is far more fragile than investors think there is.  the writing's on the wall but few resist the temptation for a quick buck.  

Yes, I have to agree. You'll see the real money makers on this forum if you look closely enough. They leave when they know the game is up, and move on to the next potential boom before bust coin.

I could literally list ten coins off the top of my head that are dead, right now, being propped up merely by this circle jerk of optimism as you so eloquently put it. Too many people buy into the hype, and then get trapped in a sort of fantasy bubble disconnected from the real world. You have to learn when to let go and move on.

man, you and Doge. IDK
It's in your damn sig

You're freaking me out

You predicted it would be gone long ago
You were wrong then, now you're running around with a "doge is bag" sig, talking about how long you've been around and how you are going fly thru the sky and give away your bitcoins?

IDK but I just got to wonder about who's "delusional"

But since you are going to "resurrect any dead relatives you may want brought back to life", I'll take all four Grandparents, as I see BTC, LTC, DOGE in sigs already AND see DOGE used as LTC is used on Coinedup.


So when you say, "I am not kidding one bit when i say you scare me.. i think you are so delusional i find it shocking and disturbing." believe it is I who is shocked and scared to see someone so freaked out over DOGECOIN

WTF  ;D ;D

I'd like to see most of them die off.

Some alt coins will survive, and you do make several good points.
Long-term there could be room for 25, 50, even 100 alts to thrive.

The smart ones made BTCs of  the boom. There will be more, so get ready.

It will be interesting to see if Doggy is still a hot topic in ~3 months. For now it sure has a big buzz.

no i think the people talking about it are buzzed.. high and drunk off of greedy profits lol

who thinks a meme will stay popular forever ? ..hands
only a god damn ultra tard that's who..
aka: Doge Tardlets

No if anything your the retard who fails the grasp that doge will evolve from beyond just a "meme" coin, which it has already begun doing which i wont bother telling you. Now if it succeeds that i dont know.

Even though i mine, personally i think Miner greed is greatly responsible for the demise of Altcoins and investors have been the losers, alot of developers have also lost money when they saw the value of their coin go down which resulted in them abandoning their coins.

The thing is Miners are now running out of investors who are willing to buy coins, because every coin that gains some value gets mega-dumped by large miners and multipools, investors are tired of being bag holders. IMO Altcoins in the past 2 months created the greatest transfer of wealth from non-miners to miners. Investors are also looking at short-term trading (buy low new coin and sell quickly without holding), you don't hear about many 'holders' anymore since everyone kind of knows that miners will dump an altcoin to oblivion.

I"m not saying Altcoins are dead, but i think we're entering a new phase soon where only innovative coins built from scratch will have a chance of gaining some real value. The whole Mine+dump= free money concept will also end.

Also i think POS has more future than POW.

+1

In the near future traders will not pay the bill for the miners anymore.

All you need to do is look at the charts. Nearly every coin is losing worth after a while.

95% from the coins deserve it to die and never come back.

They are only good for quick $.

oh we'll see about that.. Don't underestimate USDe...



http://stickerish.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/ChallengeAcceptedBlackTextSS.png

Fair point, but then the success of a PoW coin is not measured on how many satoshis it is worth, but rather if it keeps a sustainable hash-rate for transaction processing. If nobody uses a coin to buy stuff or to transfer money around the world, there's no need for mining.

Additionally, any crypto-currency is successful if it is useful, not how profitable it is for miners or "investors". I don't see them as an alternative to hedge funds or stock market, I see them as alternatives to Visa, Paypal and fiat.

That is just your opinion.

It sounds like you have more of an emotional, gut-level response to DOGE, than one built on analysis or practicality. If DOGE were separated from its meme 'image' would you like it more?

Now there's a new attempt to cash-in on the Doge craze, with FlappyCoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=464743) (a pure clone) -- plus the previous "Kitteh" and other 'cutesie' alts.

Altcoins such as these are effectively a social game; an attempt to generate interest in a shiny new idea and influence for a short time, which could be banked into other currencies. Yes, they're primarily for fun, not for viable economic use. The principal harm they could cause is to those like you, who might be angered/turned off by such a (mis)use of crypto currency. The upside, though, is they bring more people to hearing about coins, and possibly learning about BTC.

This is pretty similar as with stocks. There is sooooooo many of them. Some good, some bad, most crap.
NEVER fall in love any of them either.

What is actually super fun... is to buy gold. Real gold. You can hug it when you go to sleep and it never deserts you.

Although, I suspect you might be trolling, I'll bite:

It's tempting to compare buying stocks with cryptos; but it doesn't really hold - when you buy a stock (at least one listed on a regulated exchange, and not the pink sheets) you're buying a share of an established company with a documented financial history and (one would hope) plan for profitability. Crypto currency isn't really a share of anything; it's an unregulated medium of exchange, which one hopes will accrue in value based on the perception of its utility and trustworthiness.

Most coins should die.

sadly technology is very hard to truly kill off, without a virtual executioner coins will linger on for generations to come back from the dead time and time again to steal the savings of the desperate multi-level marketing drop out.

resurrect this thread in five years and half these coins will still have a following of people clinging to lost hope. very sad indeed.

On the flip side I do think there will almost always be major coins, just like there are major credit cards. I just don't believe that there will be only one.

Original poster typed a wall of crap when he could have just summarized it briefly:

The only PoW coins to survive will be BTC, LTC, Dogecoin, and a few others that offer some level of innovation, utility, economic model, or ASIC prevention like Darkcoin, VTC, etc.  All those clone coins like Smartcoin, Digibyte, etc will be worth 0.  

Several proof of stake coins will survive, because a "virtual decentralized bank" is a highly underestimated concept.  I wouldn't even be surprised if PPC died due to the name alone, and some current underdogs surpass it.  As for coin's economic models, I believe Cashcoin might have one of the best economic models released so far.

though I do agree with much of what you say on this forum, innovation is the most overrated feature on any coin. Joe Public doesn't relate at all to most of the 'innovation' that gets this very niche crowd interested.

Give me a marketable clone of btc/ltc anyday over an overrated, over complex 'innovative' new coin.

wolong.... Game over

Most people also seem to forget that whales make the market.  Where do whales make the most profit once crypto stabilizes and becomes somewhat flat?  Proof of stake.  PPC has a bad name and horrible interest rate.  Whatever stake coins that survive, besides PPC, should go up a lot in value, assuming the security and functionality of PoS meets or passes BTC in the future.

It is pretty much game over, all coins are so low in price it is almost not worth mining them. Very low profit, feel sorry for anyone who owes money on new equipment, it will be hard to make back roi now.

The problem is the general population will never accept and never understand the majority of these alt-coins, and if there aren't people supporting them they are worth nothing. Coin devs should really start working together on the top alt-coins and make them better instead of releasing new non-sense each and every day. Also exchanges like Cryptsy shouldn't give all these fly by night coins the time of day, there is no reason there should be that many coins on any exchange, not yet at least.

It Depends what coin you are mining
When are you selling
there are few things ROI will be within first month
Just study properly and love crypto.

Are you describing Bitcoin or Altcoins?

OP, you couldn't be more wrong, have you seen tomatocoin? (It's going to be huge!)

I'm just kidding, no I'm with you, it's absolutely insane. What exactly though, it's not that there are 100's-1000's of copies of the same thing that is surprising. What is surprising is that they all get the attention that they do. I guess I understand the point about as long as people are making money this will continue. So where is it all going?

If all the clone coins don't actually offer any new functionality then the only reason driving the price up is waves of new people/money coming into the cryptocurrency market. This can't continue on forever so at some point the waves will get smaller and smaller and as old useless cryptos die out that money should concentrate into something of real substance. (Bitcoin, NXT, Ripple (which is stupid but different, etc...)

We are all just throwing money around on stupid, valueless investments. Then again, maybe I'm missing something as they are just all copies of bitcoin and on paper just as good. I'm not sure what that means in terms of value. Every clone coin offers exactly the same thing as Bitcoin and yet we are willing to pay more for Bitcoin because it's older? I can't think of a real world example of anything that compares, as an example, what if Pepsi were cloned EXACTLY but offered at 1/1000th the cost. Would people still 'use' Pepsi?    

So maybe this whole thing is madness!  ;D

It's madness. But what's the "value" of 1 Quadrillion of $US in derivatives?  :)

I can understand your frustrations, Johnny, but the core fundamentals that governs the cryptosphere - decentralization, absence of trust, choice and anonymity - should be left to handle this on its own. Market forces will react and adjust accordingly to correct any structural imbalances in the ecosystem.

Enforcing the opinion/s of a segment of the market participants on the economy, with the intention of shaping and even governing the market, runs contrary to the ideals of you, me and Boo.

It's just a bit of fun, right? You shouldn't be investing money you can afford to lose.

There are hundreds of fiat currencies in the world today. There is no reason there couldn't be hundreds of cryptos either, maybe even thousands. So glad Bitcoin is so cheap at the moment so some of the most obvious scams may be weeded out.

Game over? The game is just beginning.

If we were playing monopoly, we havent even finished passing out the.money that we all start with. Hell, were just figuring out who gets the hat, the horse or the shoe.

All I can say is... I wonder who going to.end up with tue hotels on boardwalk. Who will become the big authority on this shit? No big player that has established himself as the leader.

I think the population will come to understand but it will take a couple of generations for these coins to reach mass adoption.

I sorted by market cap and something really hit me. It wasn't that there are now 102 coins on the site and a few months ago there were far less. What blew me away is how pathetically worthless most of the coins on the list are. It is GAME OVER and most communities don't know it. So many of these coins of lost hope have been 10 times higher in the last four months alone. So many were "major coins" at one point and now are worth absolutely nothing and will never be worthy anything EVER.

a  oh, I don'y think so , no matter what happened.