Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin is going to continue with it's bear market. I predict LTC/BTC moving up fast the comings weeks. I base this on LTC getting added to two major bitcoin exchanges, first BTCChina already added and then we have Huobi.com officially declared that they would add Litecoin see www.huobi.com

The Bitcoin and Litecoin trading speculation is very important for both bitcoin and litecoin to fully serve its function as a store of value. Never have we had two commodities on internet before, and I really think the existence of Litecoin is important and that role of silver will play an important role to Bitcoin. So people really continue to see both Bitcoin and Litecoin as a store of value, even when a new better version of Bitcoin is created.


I expect to see LTC going to atleast 0.038 LTC/BTC before May.

I have heard that some whales are moving from bitcoin to litecoin because they are afraid that the stolen coins from Mt.Gox will be sold.

Many say the same thing for the US government or 'hackers' selling large amounts of BTC,but still nothing I can see.

That's a good point.
Right now Litecoin is probably more farily distrubuted among the people than Bitcoin.
Now we have a lot of BTC stuck in few hands.

Litecoin on the other hand, have only btc-e holding a lot of coin.

The good news for LTC is already priced into the market.
If ltc/btc falls 30 to 50%, then it would be a much more exciting time to buy; Right when most people are predicting it will go much lower.   :D

LTC will only go up significantly if BTC goes up a lot.

Litecoin has generally moved with bitcoin, other than the addition to exchanges, without any new major infrastructure developments I don't see what will move LTC versus any of the other hundreds of alts, one of which may embody some real innovation.

Guy in btc-e trollbox said ltc/btc might go to 0.25. BUY BUY BUY!!!

Don't you mean BTC/LTC? As in 0.038 bitcoins per each litecoin?

Nope, meant exactly that.

Lol, now that would make alot of people very happy ;D

Nice topic... but...

GHash.IO - Pool fee is 0% ! Doubled rewards for LiteCoin mining ends in [6 days, 14 hours, 17 minutes, and 34 seconds] so time to sell.

So a 150-fold increase in LTC valuation against BTC is just around the corner? Groovy.

Seriously, though - can someone explain why the "standard" seems to be to refer to trading pairs as X/Y, and report the price as Y/X?

better then to have to some fiat as well, to buy the back nice and cheap.

that is bullshit 100% i can guarantee

"The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost." -Satoshi 

with Asics coming out for Litecoin , I think LTC will be over $100 in 2014.

why would anyone spend more money to generate the same amount one is already getting??

power consumption

Prices of BTC and LTC are related but it is most likely BTC would goes up while LTC go ip just barely or stand still. Also  BTC is not as affected by competition amongst other altcoin like LTC is.

what ? LTC slingshots when BTC rallies.

well if the power consumption gets lower, then the production cost also gets lower, no?

If they get sold ltc will take a very big hit too.

 power consumption gets lower , chips get faster , asics price goes higher , Ltc goes higher

just how bitcoin soared when ASICs came out.

im fairly bullish on Litecoin on the short-mid-term

Litecoin doesn't have any real added value, it is even a bigger pump and dump coin than bitcoin. It went to almost 50 within a few hours and is now around 15-16, it rose to almost 22 1.5 weeks ago and is dropping again despite ''the good news'.

Litecoin is the higher risk, higher reward coin.. but right now it's better then bitcoin because bitcoin has filled it's full potential already and now it's slowly retreating, while there is still potential to be filled with litecoin.

ppl tend to forget that Litecoin actually provided better returns than Bitcoin in 2013

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/01/13/a-100-worth-of-litecoin-a-year-ago-is-worth-30000-today/

I disagree with the OP's projection of 0.038 BTC/LTC, especially over the medium and long terms.

I often hear it argued that "litecoin is the silver to bitcoin's gold."  The fair price assuming this analogy holds is:

   0.023 BTC / LTC     [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508064.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508064.0)]

But litecoin is not, at least yet, the silver to bitcoin's gold.  And because it may never fulfil this imagined destiny, I would argue that it is overpriced now at 0.026.  The primary reason human society evolved to use a bi-metalic monetary system (gold and silver) was the silver solved gold's divisibility problem.  An ounce of gold represented a month's worth of work for many people; it wasn't feasible to scrape off a shred to purchase a loaf of bread.  

With bitcoin there is no divisibility problem.  Alt coins will play a smaller role than the one played by silver with respect to gold.    

Seriously great point who wouldn't be skeptical. Is there a chance they've already been sold. We still have no idea when the coins were stolen recently, yrs ago, or over time.

We have same news for bitcoins which freezed by FBI in silkroad case but its never happen just because of this I sure its just rumor not fact

Bitcoin has a slow confirmation time problem which litecoin fixes , everyone knows Litecoin is the silver to bitcoin gold and made up formulas won't change that.

You're trying to say that price follows the difficulty level.

This is not true.

i am 30% in litecoin for a while. but just because it was a really good moment. looking forward to trade them back into btc soon. my target is 0.028~0.030.
for the long term i feel more confident with bitcoin. imo the problem with the current altcoins is that if bitcoin fails they will fail too. they are too similar, they add mostly cosmetic modifications.

but i appreciate altcoins and specially the litecoin community, they help cryptos to succeed.
 

no , again "The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost." -Satoshi 

It would seem then that Litcoin's price will be going down if this is so universal, as ASICs tend to provide a lower production price per k/hash (including electricity).

I think the relative youth of cryptocurrency means that price discovery is throwing that theory out the door in the short-medium term. Longer term, it will almost certainly ring true.

I believe the right word is btc-e 'infobox', not 'trollbox'.

I  belive as well this year we will witness LTC increasing more . Just remember what happened last time when BTC asics came up and compare to what is happening right now  ;)

Alt/BTC is "standard" for prices almost everywhere.
Have you seen many people referring to BTC/ALT?
Maybe it's a noob thing or someone is confused...? 

I though there was still a high correlation between LTC and BTC but guess I'll leave this question open to answers

It was assumed that "litecoin was the silver to bitcoin's gold" in the analysis I linked.  The equivalent litecoin price according to this analogy should be near 0.023 BTC/LTC.  Unless there was an error in the calculations, this is simply a statement of fact.  Once again, I'm not implying that this analogy holds, just that I thought the result was interesting.  



With any proof-of-work (PoW) based coin, there exists some probability that a transaction gets reversed (double-spent) for a given amount of effort (cost).  This probability of success decreases and the cost to make such an attempt increases as time passes since the transaction was broadcast.  Visualize the two curves like this:

https://i.imgur.com/0YgeTAd.gif



I argue that for a given effort (cost) the probability of success for double spending will be less for the dominant PoW crypto over the entire curve, largely independent of the block confirmation times.  I can't prove this yet, but if it turns out that I am right, then the perceived benefits of a coin like litecoin are greatly diminished.  


NOTE: I haven't worked out the the shape I expect such curves to take, but the idea is that the probability of success decreases with time at fixed effort (cost), and the cost to achieve success with a given probability increases with time.

With a highly-connected listening node, one could perform statistical research to determine the probability that the "average" transaction gets reversed versus time.  You wouldn't know how much effort people spent trying to reverse such transactions, but it would provide useful network statistics.  

 

...or, it will do the opposite and once and for all prove to this community that price does not follow the mining difficulty level.

People will buy scrypt ASICs if they will mine scrypt coins at a cheaper $/kilohash rate. They might also buy scrypt ASICs because the value of Litecoin might go up considerably due to Huobi's news. They might even just buy them because the psychological factor of "gold rush fever" is like some kind of siren call to mine, mine, mine.

But the price will not follow the difficulty level. Compare Litecoin's price and difficulty level from early December (during its price peak) to its price and difficulty level now if you are convinced that price follows difficulty.

We shall talk again in 6 months.

Wrong. Altcoins allow new innovations to take place that Bitcoin may not be able to accomplish with the size of the network as it is.

In ANY market and I mean any market....there will ALWAYS be competition.

Litecoin will live on just like Bitcoin will.

All the Liteoin haters of 2011 and 2012 are now ALL SILENT on the topic.

 :D

The truth is no one gives a fuck about Litecoin, not even Bitcoin is that known outside this forum. On the other hand, i've asked normal people (not nerds) if they heard Dogecoin and they know it, thats why it's the #1 used coin.

lol , what are you saying.

I don't know why you're saying "wrong" when I agree that alt coins will continue to play an economic role.  Like you said, there will always be competition.  Like you said, experimentation is easier on a smaller network.  

I am trying only to make two points (that many here appear to disagree with):

1.  If "litecoin becomes the silver to bitcoin's gold" and you calculate a fair price based on present silver/gold market ratios, you get about 0.023 BTC/LTC.  This is simply a statement of fact.  You can give this fact as little or as much weight as you choose.  

2.  I predict that litecoin will actually have less of an economic role than silver did with respect to gold.  Silver had a very important role in pre-fiat times, with a monetary velocity significantly higher than gold's.  Even with regular day-to-day use of silver coins, the total value of monetary silver in the world remained much less than the total value of all gold. Is litecoin really going to see day-to-day use in the future like silver once did while everyone hoards their bitcoins like they once did with gold?  No.  Silver solved gold's divisibility problem but bitcoin is already divisible.  You could argue that litecoin + bitcoin permits more transactions per second than bitcoin alone, but that argument is specious as the blocksize limit will be removed.

With litecoin offering less benefits to bitcoin users than silver did during pre-fiat times, I view the current price of litecoin when priced in bitcoin as too high.  However, I do expect alt coins to continue to play an important role in the development of a cryptocurrency-based economy.  

role*

Thanks Ibian.

Wrong.

My mom asked me a week ago: "how did the MTGOX hack affect you?" and she knows very little about bit coin yet she heard.

My ex coworker from about a year ago asked me the same question and he is not involved in Bitcoin, yet he heard about Bitcoin.

It is spreading like a virus.

If no one gives a fuck about Litecoin then why did the price go from $0.07 at the beginning of 2013 and then hit $48 by the end of 2013 and currently at $16?

LOL watch as Litecoin has yet another explosive year and your claim begins to fail.

Oh not to mention two of the largest Chinese Bitcoin exchanges are soon to be trading Litecoin.

 :P

I highlighted where I believe you will be proven wrong this year and in the future. Already to date Litecoin has utility more so in commerce than Silver does. Most silver is used for industry NOT commerce.

Silver's role as money is not even really alive anymore today. Litecoin is used as a medium of exchange and is being accepted for payment for good and services unlike Silver. So in this specific example your claim is wrong and that trend will continue to widen as more people start to accept other crypto coins for payment.

 ;D

Problem with LTC vs. BTC is the miners who dump to cash out BTC.  Now BC is trying to drain the scrypt PoW alts, in order to provide indirect mining for their PoS coin.  If it catches on, this will tend to transfer the marketcap of LTC over to BC.

OK, I believe your position is:

"Smoothie believes that litecoin will play a role in the cryptocurrency economy that grows at a rate faster than the role played by bitcoin."

If this turns out to be true, then I agree that litecoin would be a good investment.  I just don't see it happening.  


For posterity, I was making a point about the divisibility problem that silver solved from the point-of-view of pre-fiat times, when silver played an important role in trade.  I agree that presently silver plays very little role in trade, and it's price, in my opinion, rests on its laurels from a bygone era.  I am just trying to learn from a time when mankind used decentralized money (gold and silver) and see if we can relate this to bitcoin and the alts.  

This is an important dynamic that hasn't been explored sufficiently.  When Doge was on a tear, significant hashing power left the litecoin network as it became more profitable to mine Doge.  A similar thing happened recently with AuroraCoin, which I expect to unwind soon if it hasn't already.  

There is evidence that a significant pool of the script hash power is constantly flowing to the most profitable coin of the day.  At first, this attention helps to pump up the value of the fledgling alt because its network appears to be growing for legitimate reasons.  But the hash power was never invested out of ideology, the miners never cared about the coin.  They trade the mined coins for bitcoin, reducing the market value of the once-promising alt.  Eventually, this pool of hash power has sucked both the value and excitement from the alt coin du jour and so it leaves to find a new host, returning to litecoin when none is available.  Litecoin is rewarded with its small market cap for its role in protecting bitcoin's legitimacy.  

I am starting to see this pool of script miners as a moat that surrounds the tower of bitcoin.  The bodies of dead alt coins rest on its muddy bottom as a reminder of failed coins from the past.  The moat is fluid, representing the ease that script miners can redirect hash power to mine ("neutralize") new alts.  The tower is strong and permanent, representing the fact that ASIC bitcoin hardware cannot be feasibly repurposed¹.  When I say that the script hash power sucks the value out of the new alt, the value gets transferred to bitcoin and the tower grows.

Infrastructure added to the tower stays in the tower for the single purpose of mining bitcoin, while infrastructure that goes in to the moat gets distributed across the spectrum of alts fighting for legitimacy.  Because most new alts will fail, the return on aggregate investment on script miners over the medium term will be less than on bitcoin miners and thus the tower will grow faster than the moat until it is too tall to scale [this argument is admittedly lacking in evidence].


Wow, I took the moat and tower metaphor way too far….


¹Unless its a double SHA256 coin but the ever-present threat of a 51% attack by the huge hashing power of bitcoin network would never allow such a coin to gain traction.

Just far enough, I think. Interesting read.

It isn't a belief, it is a fact that Litecoin has outperformed Bitcoin. If you use the same scale of time litecoin is ahead of where Bitcoin was when it was 2.5 years old in terms of adoption and utility.

Of course litecoin has the nice advantage of allowing Bitcoin to pave the way.

Litecoin has been a good investment for anyone who bought anytime in the first half of 2013 and prior. Trust me I've been around since litecoin was launched by Charles.

What happened in the past is fact.  What we think will happen in the future is our opinion. 

Agreed. Although you never mentioned the "future" in your statement above.

Perhaps I should have reworded your statement that I believe litecoin has and will continue to outgrow Bitcoin.

When I posted the volume figure few days ago, some people told me that I shouldn't look at that day because Litecoin was at a pump, I have been looking everyday at this figure for the last 3-4 months and the volume of Litecoin, and I can confirm that it was equal or even more than BTC volume.

I also wrote in my Blog about why I think Litecoin has a bright future, and why it did survive 2.5 years  www.mmitech.info (http://www.mmitech.info)

https://i.imgur.com/dYWFQxa.png

the real reason for this is development of ASIC hardware for LTC and other script cryptocoins,
because SHA 256 mining is impossible, and game is ove for Bitcoin, mining factor is about 7cents/GH at 24h !!!
Now we'll have a repeat of Bitcoin but with Litecoin.
These are great speculation mining company, for the sake of their huge profits.
They do a lot of wisely and systematic.

Check my thread from 15. feb 2014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467191.0

Litecoin surpasses bitcoin 24HR volume, looks like the market is getting ready for Huobi

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/20jpce/litecoin_surpasses_bitcoin_24hr_volume_looks_like/

the real reason  is development of ASIC technology to mining script.
Everything is the same as with Bitcoin.

whats your prediction for the litecoin price after asic hardware is available?


As already mentioned, satoshi said


We got this scrypt miner with 200mh/s for  15000 Euro + Tax ~ 17500 Euro: https://www.mining-asics-technologies.com/product/excalibur-3-asic-scrypt-miner-200-mhs/


Lets assume they ship it in August 2014, 5month from now.
Important will be the difficulty at release. Over the last 5month the dificulty grew from 1000 to 5000. So i assume that difficulty could be around 25000 in August.
200mh/s at 25000 difficulty could mine 241.4 LTC / Month. After ASIC release the difficulty should grow faster, so i would expect you can mine around 500 LTC with it within 3months.

Does this help us to predict a price in any way? It looks like that the production cost is kinda high, if the difficulty keeps growing as before.

If difficulty is that high and you could mine only 500LTC with an 17,500 Euro hardware investment in 3month then the production cost would be 35 Euro ~ 48 Usd (+ costs of electricity).

I say asic for scrypt,
Ordinary people can not control the price cryptocoins, these work exclusively producers of mining hardware
I think LTC will be about 100-150 usd in 2014 year, but BTC go down to 150-250usd.

i dont see why btc should go down while ltc is going up. a major btc crash will also affect ltc price imo.

according to my calculation, i think 30$+ per ltc is possible in summer but btc should be 1000$+ at this time.

For BTC,
The price is artificially raised by the manufacturer mining hardware,and now no longer have any interest in it,
because SHA 256 mining is impossible, and game is over for Bitcoin, mining factor is about 7cents/GH at 24h !!!
BTC will constantly fall.

For next 10 days mining factor is -13%

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1185/pb1m.png (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/pb1m.png/)View Screen Capture (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/pb1m.png/)

bitcoin won't go down , it will rise bringing litecoin with it and killing most other copy/scam coins.

yes btc will down,
because for traders not interesting valuuta at rest, we see, bitcoin never exceed the 700 usd.
and it means that they will over time lose its value and interest.

Are you ready to bet 1 BTC on your statement (BTC never exceeding 700 USD) or are you just trolling around?  8)

"SHA 256 mining is impossible?" since when? Did i miss something?

Wish people would stop quoting trolls. Better yet paying attention to them.

You are right. They got me off guard, my apologies. Don't happen again.  :-X

Somehow i have the need to show newbies and others who don't know how it works here yet, that these kind of guys are just trolling. You know it, i know it, but the newbies don't know it and some of them will really believe these clowns...I found out, the best way how to silence them is to challenge them to bet...fonzie (one of the most epic clown-trolls these days) was trolling like crazy and i offered him absurdly good bet with 3:1 ratio for him and there was quite for some time, no answer/trolling for days....But you are right it is not helping to quote them and i won't do that again...i will challenge them to bet time from time without the quoting... 8)

stevenlam?

Are you asking if I previously went by the username "stevenlam"?  I've always gone by Peter. 

No.

You left out one piece of logic there - the block target. For all of the Litecoin clones, the model is exactly the same (and the same as bitcoin; +/- block reward halving, which Litecoin does not have, to my knowledge).

The same amount of coins are being minted whether there are 10 miners or 100,000 (with of course the exception of bitcoin, where the constantly-increasing hashrate pulls the block target so hard that supply does typically get ahead of the block target, on average). The hashrate does not change the "supply" of coins. You possibly didn't omit this intentionally, but this is a fallacy that is constantly propagated in this community because of the misunderstanding of the block target.

So technically, your theory is not correct. The profitability-switching scrypt pools do not negatively impact the economy of the coin, necessarily. 10 miners could dump all minted coins from that day onto the exchange, and 100,00 miners of that same coin can dump all of the minted coins from that day onto the exchange rate. In both cases, the same number of coins are brought to the sell side of the market.

Hashrate has no direct effect on price. Hoarding has an effect on price, but has no causation to any coin's difficulty level.

Someone will inevitably chime in with some kind of an argument claiming that correlation = causation on this topic. It doesn't.

I think you're reading something into my post that's not there.  I was saying that the increase in the hashrate temporarily increases confidence and thus perceived value.  Community members of the fledgling alt say "hey, look at all these miners coming in.  People must really love our new coins!"  I wasn't implying that if the hashrate increases by a factor of 100 then 100x the coins would be mined in perpetuity--difficulty get adjusted in order to target a certain inflation level (block rate).  

But a rapid increase in hashing power can still lead to more coins being sold: if the new hash power is in it only for the bitcoins, then a larger fraction of newly-minted coins will be traded rather than held by the original miner, thereby increasing the supply of coins for sale and applying downwards pressure on the alt coin price.  

EDIT: this is what I mean by the "moat."  When bitcoin started, most miners were actually interested in bitcoin, and thus a larger fraction of the hash power held their coins.  But now, when a new "script" coin is introduced, it draws people who are genuinely interested in the coin as well as miners searching for the most cost-effective way to earn bitcoins.  My thesis is that this dynamic tends to increase the alt coin supply "for sale" and eventually hinder price advances, creating a barrier to entry for new alt coins.  

In other words, it's difficult for new alt coins to cross the moat.  

Yes, it's possible.


Agree with this, but it's a short term trend, and it's only psychological. And this is a scenario from which people around here derive the idea (not referring to you) that price follows the hashrate. But if you look at the new alts that pop up on Cryptsy, almost all of them have the same pattern - they get pumped hard by whales just after release, noob buyers pile in to the pump, dump ensues, coin drops in value drastically. But, this "whale procedure" has nothing to do with the hashrate; it's measured only in the activity on the exchanges.


I gotcha.


True, but it doesn't mean that it's any less likely that the original, smaller amount of miners contained the same ratio of dumpers.

At any rate, just to address a point I made earlier in the thread - when Scrypt ASICs assumably hit the market in full force later this year and if Litecoin's value goes up, there will be a large contingency here pointing and saying, "Look! Price follows difficulty!"

The indicators for LTC/BTC at BTC-e are looking pretty overbought at the moment.

Nevertheless Litecoin is showing strength at the moving averages (LTC/BTC and LTC/USD). While on the contrary bitcoin (BTC/USD) is looking weak there.

I also expect LTC/BTC to appreciate in 2014. I think LTC/BTC=1.00 is possible.

What do you expect will happen, when huobi starts trading Litecoin? I would expect a short and sharp decline back to around 0.0200 for the LTC/BTC pair.

Person to permanently disregard.

As I said, the indicators for LTC/BTC and LTC/USD are looking pretty overbought ATM.

And when huobi starts litecoin trading, it would be a perfect timing for the indicators to come down.

In 2013 bitcoin appreciated 100 fold - litecoin appreciated (only) 40 fold.

For 2014 I see litecoin outperform bitcoin.

Litecoin out preformed bit in 2013 , it went up 33000%

You are right here; shouldn´t have mentioned 2013 at all. I took the data for litecoin only since it was traded at relevant exchanges (around may 2013).

But one could argue with overall price appreciation since inception (with inception meaning the coin is available at exchanges).

Bitcoin has risen from 0.06$ to 1200$ = 20,000 fold

Litecoin has risen from 0.07$ to 48$ = 685 fold


Of course I would never argue that way...

Every single new coin outperforms bitcoin. They increase from nothing to something. That's an infinite increase.

Litecoin is not a new coin, it is 2.5 years old...

but didn't Bitcoin do this, as well?

So we see that the newer a coin is the better it performs vs bitcoin. And moving on.

LTC will probably repeat history... at first the manipulative whales will hold back the rise just to raise tension, and then it will suddenly be released, creating an very fast surge upwards.
It was exactly like that during the last couple of days with 9.5-10$

just to add something here, Litecoin distribution seems more fair than Bitcoin's distribution, while more than 45% is held on addressed from 0-10000 LTC and only 34% are held from addresses with 100000-10000000 in which 2 of these addresses are owned by BTC-e and OKcoin, this means only exchanges hold 23% of people's Litecoins.

this brings us to 70% held by small holders like me.

beside the huge development and marketing going around Litecoin, the fact of the distribution compared to Bitcoin's distribution, and the fact that I dont have to worry about satoshi's coins or the stolen coins from Mtgox....  is really attracting


Source: http://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-litecoin-addresses.html

https://i.imgur.com/K5rmEGc.png

Your communist ideas of fairness is what drives every western political decision and the very reason the economy is tanking. Truck on comrade.

I don't know exactly about distribution, but the insider whales at BTC-E are kind of dumb brutes, who should learn more refined methods for market manipulation then fake 2mil.$+ buy/sell walls. Things like that make people turn away from LTC. The market will always be manipulated, but just don't be so damn obvious when you do it.

In the general idea, I agree that LTC probably has a bright future.
I'll quote myself here, what I posted couple of days ago when talking about Houbi accepting LTC.

communism ? is it the new thing of " I don't like your opinion" ? when equal chances became communism ?

 I think I am the biggest capitalist, but I have values and morals, I don't drink people's blood in order to make some profits or gain a better position, this way of Communism thing exist only in your dictionary, I would think of it as a human rights.....

You equate a more even spread of litecoin with fairness compared to bitcoin. That is communist thinking. Equal distribution of resources.

What does lead you to think this?

You can't comprehend that fair wealth distribution is an important factor for an effective economy.
Sierra Leone has one of the worst income equality for instance while Japan has one of the best. Now try to compare the economies of those 2 countries and call Japanese "communists".

The funny thing is that people like you will mostly be first to whine about fairness when someone just takes something from you by force.

don't make a fool of your self, the equal distribution comes from the fact that Litecoin's launch was announced before, people knew what is a cryptocurrency thanks to Bitcoin, they all started mining with a different equipment, so Litecoin wasn't competing with Bitcoin over the network hash power.

also now that we know Satoshi is still around with the 1 million coin he owns, yes he deserve owning them but...we don't know what will happen with them or with the mtgox coins or with the many stolen coins, I would better feel if I spread the risk between these 2 coins.

exactly, I am thankful that I am not the only one who think this way :)

I know perfectly well why the distribution looks the way it does. You are missing the point. You used the word fair about it. That's just another form of superstition. A rationalization to justify your position. That you think it is fair does not mean it will work better, comrade.

There will always be people who have more money than others. If lite somehow became bigger than bitcoin it would happen again. There would be another gox, new major heists.

If you think a more even distribution of coins is a good thing then you should focus on a coin that enforces this. Litecoin can't, and trying to promote it based on the current distribution is foolish.

The state does take money by force. In my country, ~50%. And it is taken automatically from our salaries before the money has a chance to enter our accounts.

Japan has a higher debt than most (all?) western countries in terms of percent to GDP. Google is your friend in instances like this. They are on the list of countries with economies set to collapse. Largely due to our western influence on their economy.

again, this will be my last respond to you, it is different when you don't have a chance or when the chance is taken from you than when you do have a chance and you give it up or you agree to compromise your position...two whole different stories.

I can debate this thing with you for days, but I speak of my experience and I deeply feel and mean every word I said, I am born and raised in a 3rd world country but lived 1/3 of my life in Europe, I know exactly what I am talking about, because I lived both scenarios....

Both bit and lite are based on supply and demand. It doesn't matter who owns how many coins, the ROI mechanic is the same. Further, once bitcoin becomes used as a standard currency instead of automatically being cashed out it will not decrease in value when you buy something with it and then people can stop worrying about dumps. The ups and downs are just a temporary phase while it grows, and it will reach maturity before any other coin. All lite has to its name is easier mining for small investors, but this too may just be temporary until asics for lite come out.

And I bet that you whine a lot that the state unfairly takes the money from you... people like you always do.

The problem is that you don't understand the relation between global trade and debt. Most of the developed countries are in debt to each other or to their own people. Don't get your knowledge from schizophrenic youtube videos on how everyone are in debt to IMF that is owned by evil bankers/reptile aliens. Sure the bankers are skimming profits, and sure there a lot of crooks in banking, but most of the debt is actually created between countries that have close trade relations.
I will give you apples, you will owe me for these apple.. you will in turn give me oranges and I will owe you for those oranges, with the debt constantly changing in relation to the current trade needs.

To simplify things more:
what matters the most is how the majority of the population feels that they are valued by society. When everyone feels that they are valued fairly according to their education and workload, then everyone will work more efficiently. When people are undervalued, then they lose motivation to work and get educated, just as people lose motivation to work and get educated when they are overvalued.

The main thing that went wrong with communism was central planning. Markets are just too complex for a single building full of people to regulate fairly. The Soviet economy for instance was highly abused by the top officials and the rest were too incompetent to understand supply and demand. This is the thing that created an highly inefficient economy that was constantly plagued by product deficit or oversupply.

Dat pump & dump.

I'm out of LTC again and back in fiat, but not out of BTC-E yet, because there is a good chance that there will be another and a stronger rise. Let's see what happens.

eiskalt, it's like with the bitcoin community. Talking about evil banksters and how bitcoin would bring liberty to finance. But, what everyone really wants, is for everyone to pump wealth into their coins, so they would get rich without any work or education. If bitcoin were about freedom, not greed, then the new coin supply wouldn't have been built in a way where half of the coins will come out in 5 years, and the rest for the next 120 years. The design was made like that on purpose, to build a strong starting momentum and attract people with greed. The sad thing is that the growth will slow down together with coin supply, because people aren't this stupid to pump wealth into the hands of the "early adopters". People are smart enough to build alternatives that doesn't have this pack of leeches dragging everyone else down.

Manipulator talking about how people are smart. Funny stuff.

Yeah, you REALLY believe people are smart. That's why you didn't come over here to pump LTC and the  dump it. Haha. Classic.

Yeah, you believe people are smart. Right.  :D

Well people mostly are smart. I also believe that most of the people here in this forum are smart. Their judgment is often clouded by their emotional attachment to bitcoin though. Religion can even make smart people look stupid, and the same rule mostly applies here.
But the bitcoin religion won't spread very far, because the "unfairness" factor isn't very well hidden. People with even the simplest financial knowledge can see that it's not right, that half of the coins will come out in 5 years and the rest in 120 years. It's easy to judge with common sense, that the system is built for supporting parasites. That is the simple reason why most of the population doesn't want anything to do with Bitcoin.

And of course, Litecoin is no different. It has the same moronic financial rules, but it's history and technology are slightly superior. I think that LTC will be the fun coin for the near future, that will have volatility enough to make it profitable. If you have strong emotional attachment to bitcoin, then you can hodl while the price is slowly dropping, it's everyones personal choice.

Lets not flat out lie. It's unbecoming. You don't think people are smart. You think you are smart. But not others.

No, I really don't. I haven't met many people that aren't smarter then me in some subject. People are just different kinds of smart, so it expresses differently.

@Zapffe @windjc:

thanks for quoting my post, which got deleted for whatever reason.
So can anybody tell me, why my post got deleted?

Is talking about communism a thoughtcrime nowadays? If so, it was not me who started this.


I agree, talking about evil banksters is missing the point about the cause of the social and economic problems we are facing on a global scale.

Regarding the motivation, why one decides to get involved with BTC, LTC or other cryptocurrencies, I would like to add, that it is not necessarily greed (alone), but also fear.

I also agree with your criticism about supply and distribution of coins. But even in societies where capital and values are most equally spread, there will always be a difference. The problem with distribution inequality is not categorical but rather gradual. In that sense, Litecoin seems (at least) to address this.

back on topic

https://i.imgur.com/0JpFQyL.png

Looking good.

Should be back to 20 tomorrow.

O.K. still hope for tomorrow ...

it is an interesting theory and it does feel like a ton of attacks on BTC are taking place so maybe the OP's view is unfolding before our eyes who knows. 

first ever i saw LTC market cap more than BTC market cap
interesting
should us invest to LTC too? ;D

no interest in the copy of bitcoin like litecoin, dogecoin and all that shit.
copy is never equal to the original


Real big company invest in bitcoin only and few biggest financial place come soon like GS , paulson and co ect... just wait and see .

Bitcoin is a stock not a money . We don't need lot of people use it one company like GS in bitcoin is better than 10 million new user

what is important is the total money invested not the number of people.

We're not talking about paintings by famous artists here.  It's code.

Litecoin, dogecoin, XYZcoin don't actually do anything substantially different to bitcoin.  Sure, they're slightly tweaked, maybe have a shorter confirmation time, maybe a different hashing algorithm, but it's really the same thing dressed up in different clothes with a hawker shouting 'new and improved!' next to it.  Does Litecoin solve a problem that bitcoin has?  No.  Confirmation times are far too long with both so we're still looking at a situation of requiring third parties to process transactions on our behalf.  Standing at a checkout waiting for 6 confirmations with litecoin or bitcoin is still far too long in both cases.

Design something that works like bitcoin, has the same security, but doesn't require gigawatts of power to run the system.  There's a challenge.

Litecoin is actually holding up pretty well in spite of Bitcoins drops. And that includes the Chinese exchanges where it is currently rising. Maybe people have just forgotten about it or maybe it has already found it's bottom.

stop buying LTC guise, you're decoupling it from BTC and ruining my whole trading strategy :P

Ok :-)

Litecoin predictions update:
http://bullbearanalytics.com/2015/01/18/litecoin-predictions-breakout/ (http://bullbearanalytics.com/2015/01/18/litecoin-predictions-breakout/)

Litecoin is very likely to see bet ROI then bitcoin if we starting a bull market right now.

yes, litecoin moves will be stronger in both directions = more "leverage"