Bitcoin Forum

Satoshi's invention of a revolutionary form of money that would give people control over their funds back in 2009 (Bitcoin), turned out to be a success. While the cryptocurrency's PoW consensus is partially centralized (mostly dominated by the Chinese), it has a wide distribution of nodes all across the globe. Theoretically speaking, Bitcoin is decentralized where anyone can set up a node to support the Blockchain. With enough capital, it's possible to secure Bitcoin in our homes with sophisticated ASIC machines too.

So far, many people believe that Bitcoin is truly decentralized as "no one" controls it. But the harsh reality is that every single cryptocurrency and Blockchain network depends on the Internet to survive. It's no secret that in today's world, big companies like Google, Facebook, and even Amazon control the Internet. On the other hand, ISPs (Internet Service Providers) have a final say over what people can view or host using the Internet. This means that Internet is centralized, greatly defeating the purpose of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies of eliminating the middleman.

For Bitcoin to be truly decentralized, the Internet needs to be decentralized first. Once that's done, you could expect to achieve financial freedom that's out of the scope of oppressive governments, central banks, and large corporations alike. Until then, Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies will be subject to the risks of the Internet's centralization for years to come.

What are your thoughts? ???

Bitcoin is decentralized ! Even tho chinese miners have most of the hasing power it is not all under one single pool. Not a 51% attack. And even if all fails and bitcoin does fall to this... no problem. Bitcoin 2.0 will step in, more powerful then ever (not BSV... another one :P)

Bitcoin is not manipulated (to my knowledge). Yes, btc price can/was pumped by third parties (see USTD, and many other examples) but no one controls it. ISP will not ban IP associated with crypto nodes ... let's be realistic here. Big companies may try to centralize as much as possible, to censor, to manipulate popular opinions ... The Overton Window (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/us/politics/overton-window-democrats.html) is a great example and an interesting read imo.
There was a time when some ISP (it may still happen....donno) blocked traffic when they realized you were using torrent systems. But mostly torrents were piracy. Crypto is freedom!

It's not the "INTERNET" you have to fear. If you have a router and few meters of FTP cable you can make a local network and presto.... you have INTERNET. Not World Wide Web... mostly 3 house wide web ... but still the same concept.
I believe Satoshi's legacy is the blockchain and bitcoin was a practical example of how revolutionary it actually is.
A decentralized internet would be great. Many similar options to pick from, no monopol, net neutrality etc. would be awesome. But don't see how without theese crypto will perish !

The internet is decentralized. It is literally millions of computers all around the world, no central point of failure. Google, Amazon and Facebook do not control the internet, if that is the extent of your internet usage, I feel sorry that you are missing out on so much more. If those companies were gone tomorrow, the internet would be just fine.
Bitcoin is decentralized, with many nodes holding a copy of the blockchain, no central point of failure.

By your logic, you may as well call it centralized since it only available in one galaxy, so if you can spread to more galaxies, then it will be more decentralized lol.

Internet is centralized when a government can cut your access or limit it. It is centralized when you're paying your ISP for the ability to connect to the web.

It is centralized because somebody owns the cables. Those fiberoptics did not produce and lay themselves. Your local network at work is also centralized because someone owns the computers and someone pays the bills.

Can you elaborate? As I know, the Internet network is still largely decentralized, and thanks to tools like encryption, ToR, VPN, proxies it's impossible to control users. It's impossible to make a "turn Bitcoin off" button, so I wouldn't worry about it. There are problems with lack of competition between Internet service providers in some places, but it doesn't have any strong implications for Bitcoin.

I agree with hatshepsut93 (wow that's hard to write).
Internet is still a place largely decentralized

We have bitcoin, we have independent news sites, anyone can open a blog for free and say whatever he wants  with no censorship (mostly)... internet is so large and so vast that nobody can control it.

Internet is just a bunch of connected computers,  almost all computers in the world. That's just amazing.

However there are some services in the internet which are oligopolies (mostly due to their own merits by the way).

For example, the advertising online industry is an oligopoly controlled by Google Facebook and maybe one or more companies. But we cannot say internet is  centralized  imo

in the internet's current form, yes, the centralized infrastructure and limited number of government-controlled ISPs is problematic. hopefully p2p mesh networking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_mesh_network) will mitigate this issue, but it'll realistically take years to build out the kind of networks that could support bitcoin. consumer mesh routers have only been out for a few years.

I actually have no problem with the idea of decentralizing the internet so that we can also have a fully decentralized Bitcoin or cryptocurrency. The problem is that how can we do it successfully and with disruption? People these days are already accustomed to giants like Google, Facebook  and similar names. Getting rid of them can be impossible unless we are proposing a big revolution that can tear down these "walls" but we know it is going to happen. The problem is that these giants became successful, popular and now controlling because people allowed them to be. Facebook became the most pervasive socmed because people are patronizing it and despite many problems and setbacks that besieged the platform we see no exodus from the site. However, I don't see that much connection between decentralized cryptocurrency and centralized internet. Just because we have many big players controlling the business brought on by the internet does not mean that they can really affect cryptocurrency in major ways.

If your government cuts off your access, or your ISP turns off your connection....that does not mean the same conditions apply for every person in the world, that is a YOU problem, not an every person in the world problem.

There are millions of internet connections, many many ISPs and governments, the internet is decentralized, no one person or government can turn it all off, that will never happen.

Bitcoin is designed to be run on the internet, but can work any way that you can transmit data.

YOU can setup a satellite node and use bitcoin without internet. This is something setup precisely for people who have 'internet problems' in their country.

Bitcoin can work using virtually any method there is to transmit data, even radio waves, or infra red, but of course the web is the the best method.

Bitcoin cant be decentralized at least due to hashrate income. Internet is not a main problem

Sure ISPs can control what browsers you use and so on, still have you not heard of proxy servers?

Provide your own routes to your router?
Changing IP Address by VPN will make your Internet "decentralized" where the ISP can no longer control which type of connections you are having or from where they come from.

There are alot of ways for bypassing ISP blocks / protections against Crypto network.

So yes Internet is decentralized, it's a group of servers working together as a road (network).

Lol,a bunch of people denying a stupid statement(the internet is centralized) just to sig spam.
Calm down people,there's no need to bump stupid threads again and again,all the time. ;D

I remembered the concept I learned about the subject networking we had before. Internet is live network, no one owns the internet. With that regard, you can have access to the internet if you want to, you just need to trust and pay ISP but they don't really own a portion of the internet. Some people have just funded the transatlantic cables beneath the seabed but if we are to ask the world who owns it, no one. So why could we say internet is centralized then? Because of ISP? No. Because we are the one who could decide what ISP would we want. If they restricts and observe our browsing activity, it is just that, we let them to do so.

I have to say I don't understand what is exactly the point.
You've said that big companies like Facebook and Google control internet. Maybe that is partialy true but I wouldn't say that they control internet but users of the internet, or better to say their data.
On the other hand I don't see how this is connected with Bitcoin. When we say that is decentralized that means that it doesn't have some central authority like central banks or similar who would control it or define it so that doesn't have anything to do with internet

I think he just mixed the  meanings of decentralization and possible control of internet users by ISPs and big companies like Google or Facebook but I don't think he can prove the point about connection with Bitcoin.

I think the OP has also forgotten that the Bitcoin network is hosted by several nodes which is dominated by the Chinese and in that same manner these internet service providers spread across the world also host the internet for successful transfer of information. I don't see anything wrong with this, what do you think folks?

As far as I read , the Comments here are not the same . Some says internet is centralized while others say it isn't .

  But if I were to give my own opinion I can say that it is really decentralized  because no one's hold the internet but there are so called isp that control our Network and the site owner that control the site . Btc is also decentralized but there are those wallet that are control by devs   .

I don't believe the internet is completely centralized, for example, the government of Uganda announced he will start charging her citizens their use of the internet, a friend of mine from there vowed to start using VPN than pay any dime to the government. With this, he could still access the internet without the government knowing and he needs pay no tax on the internet too.

Internet is decentralized as much as it could be. There's no other network as decentralized as internet as almost all of them depends on it.
There are concepts of a alternative internet but that would also be no different from current internet.
Though I'd love to see a coin that could be verified using mobile networks or wlan or even Bluetooth so that people can transact offline.

As far as I know, no one owns or governs the internet. That is why a lot of people are addicted to it since there are no laws or limitations to access it unless the government is the one limiting it. Still that do not count since they do not control the internet.

I think people are putting way to much emphasis on Bitcoin itself instead of the Blockchain. Satoshi Nakamoto made the Bitcoin and Blockchain source code open source. So most likely Satoshi knew Bitcoin was flawed, hence making the project public in hope's of people contributing to where he left off. As we speak, other projects are being developed that blow Bitcoin and it's current blockchain out of the water. I don't think Bitcoin was designed to be permanent but instead it was just a proof of concept demonstrating the use of Blockchain and what could potentially be a new form of digital currency.
  Instead people took Bitcoin and Blockchain and ran with it. I doubt Bitcoin makes the long run, I see Bitcoin as the archetype and prototype for future cryptocurrencies and blockchains, being made after Bitcoins likeness and image.
Delegated proof of stake and sharding seem like a more efficient and viable choice at the moment, but eventually even these methods will be replaced by better ideas as I am sure Satoshi envisioned.

Internet being centralized or decentralized is not really a problem here. Bitcoin is decentralized on its nature but one factor affecting it is the government who is centralized. Even if bitcoin is decentralized, since the government is higher, they can still control their people who's using Bitcoin. No one is controlling Bitcoin but the government can control people, which is the user of Bitcoin.

Haven't you just comment on the same thread, wearing a paid sig? Good job on getting a paid post without actually contributing to the discussion.

There are two ways of looking at it. Saying that internet is centralized isn't completely stupid.

The Internet access is largely centralized, same as search engines and what is transmitted by media outlets. One of them publishes FUD and suddenly they all repeat it without doing research. Its an example of brainwashed centralization.
At the same time Bitcoin is decentralized and so are forums and channels that allow people to communicate and share information.

If there exist a controversy whether the internet is decentralized or centralized, there will be big confusion. From my view the way we make use of the internet will show it to be centralized or decentralized. We have darkweb that can be a way of decentralized usage. Until something can't be traced we can term internet to be decentralized.

ISPs and what has been mentioned need not be decentralized, they are only concerned with business matters, unless the government wants things that are more stringent but does not eliminate access completely, this seems excessive to me because financial freedom must also remain balanced with a system that is constantly adapting. The government will also definitely consider using bitcoin/crypto positively because they are already tired enough with inflation that will never end.

Agree with you! Basically, the internet is still decentralized, not only thanks to encryption tools but also by different vendors, no one really can control it, including global services. All the big companies can do is dominating user data and it's not an effect on Bitcoin, without any impact.

The government nor the big companies controlling the internet as you said such as google and Facebook wouldn't be shutting down the internet just to also shutdown the decentralization of BTC right?

The world are now depended to the inter connecting computers everywhere, the bank rely to internet and they can't afford to shut it a day just to deal with the decentralization of cryptocurrency, its best to just adopt as they can't do anything about it even if its centralized.

interesting , so how to make internet going decentralized ? , besides it , lets say satoshi know it, i mean internet is centralized , and he/she creating decentralized coin on centralising place and he/she seems have no worries about it , bitcoin still going alive until now and seems decentralized like the beginning, although now most exchange have a rules about KYC to buy bitcoin on their exchange.

That's not a harsh reality at all--it's been understood from the start, and it really doesn't matter all that much if bitcoin isn't an absolutely perfectly decentralized thing.  It's one thing to be dependent on the internet for it to work and quite another for the whole system to be controlled by a single entity, which bitcoin isn't.

So not a huge deal IMO.  Probably more of a concern in my mind would be China's dominance in the mining sphere, but I don't think that's even all that big a deal.

It's an interesting line of thought, but I disagree. For one, it's not like it's impossible to do Bitcoin without the Internet. There are already some projects allowing the use of satellites, for example. Secondly, Bitcoin is mainly related to the financial sector. It truly offers a system that depends on demand and supply and nothing else. In this sense, it's a free market. And Bitcoin is decentralized in terms of this price formation first of all. You're right that mining is hardly concentrated in the hands of big players, for instance, and that the Internet is not decentralized while being a medium for Bitcoin transactions. So I believe we can still say that Bitcoin is decentralized, but that it's just not fully decentralized.

@bitmover
@hatshepsut93

How the internet is decentralized if we are not our own ISP provider, running our own hardware infrastructure, with open-source software, and so on. Perhaps I could add decentralized electricity is needed too lol. If it is, why aren't we free to do whatever we want on the web?

Perhaps in the ealy days, when just a few geek where playing with it, but as of now I wouldn't say the web is decentralized. We don't own all the cable undersea and have no control over it

Bitcoin gave Mankind, or Humankind the ability to think outside of the box again, as we were all put into a slavery system or code to abide by and work in. The decentralized notion behind Bitcoin was a paradigm shift into realizing that there is far more outside of just what the governments and central banks wanted us to believe there was. We do not necessarily need the internet to be decentralized to decentralize Bitcoin, what we need is more forward thinking people and organizations both public and private to embrace the technology itself that is the greatest gift from Bitcoin, not it being only a speculative asset for people to make financial gains. We need to look at the picture as a whole here.

Bitcoin is completely decentralised and if you think internet is not decentralised then start using VPN. That will help you to overcome controlled internet. POW controlled doesnot mean that Chinese are controlling Bitcoin. Bitcoin needs it's community to survive without them the Chinese are left with nothing.

Who said that you aren't free? People are doing all sorts of illegal stuff on the Internet without ever getting caught, that's all the proof you need to know that you can do anything you want if you know how to stay hidden. 

I do not think so. Centralized on the Internet is certainly no bigger than Decentralized. That is, the government can only centralized by blocking web addresses, IP addresses, and search keywords on networks in a country. And if we use VPN, then what is blocked will be accessible. So don't worry about Centralized on the internet. Basically, Bitcoin has its own decentralized network.

LOL
So explain to me why do we need to stay hidden on the web if we are free? Shouldn't it be the opposite?  
If it was really the case we wouldn't need to hide our ass. Nope, definitely we are not free, you can't say what you want on the web without getting censored, there are rules, there are ISP rules, platforms rules, hosting rules, email providers rule and so on. you can't use the internet without being monitored (doing legal or illegal)

People thinking the internet is decentralized are truly living in their own bubble

Where I live using the Internet has no restrictions, that is, I can visit the pages I want and download any program and use it, it is true that the Internet may be centralized to some extent, however, it is a service used by millions of People for millions of purposes, therefore, it is not feasible to stop it and there are so many cryptocurrency projects and applications that pretending to control them is almost impossible.

The real challenge of decentralization is in the use of cryptocurrencies, because currently it still depends on many intermediaries, in fact the main Exchanges are centralized and there is no privacy.

First and foremost, you need to understand Satoshi's version of decentralization and financial freedom.  You should also understand that the internet is not really centralized as you may think.  Having the necessary tools, the internet is not centralized. With Bitcoin, the basic intention of Satoshi was to develop a digital money that will not require the verification of a central body in order for transactions to made. In order to avoid double spending, blockchain ledgers were created. This was meant to record transactions in encrypted cryptographic form and in order for this to be efficient, PoW consensus was necessary to ensure a stable blockchain network. 

Exactly. That's my point. If the Internet is controlled by the hands of a few (ISPs, Governments, etc), then it's considered centralized. Since Bitcoin depends on the Internet, it's not fully decentralized as we've thought it would be. Even Tor has been compromised by the FBI some time ago. The only way to achieve decentralization with Bitcoin would be to run the same via a mesh network. Satellite connections would work too, but they aren't very reliable (as far as I'm aware).

As long as the public Internet is controlled by big corporations, they could have a final say over which devices are allowed to run a node and support the Bitcoin blockchain. Imagine if worldwide governments started cracking down on Bitcoin and the entire Blockchain industry. They could easily hit the "kill switch" by forcing ISPs to ban connections to the BTC network. Something like this is being done in Russia with the aim to prevent people from accessing the public Internet. Thanks to the open source nature of Bitcoin, someone can easily come up with a solution to maintain the Blockchain ecosystem without interference (radio waves, perhaps?).




I'm aware there are tools that would provide a level of privacy to Bitcoin users at some extent. However, these same tools can be easily intercepted by the government. It's no secret that VPN & proxy providers are centralized, while the Tor network it's said to be compromised by the FBI (look on Google for more info). The best way to use Bitcoin in a completely decentralized manner would be to run our own personal networks that are "off the grid". Something like a mesh network or even a PAN (Personal Area Network) could further decentralize Bitcoin. Of course, most people still connect to the public Internet to use Bitcoin. But in the event governments decide to collaborate with ISPs to prevent devices from connecting to the BTC network, other decentralized means could be used to maintain the blockchain over time.

As most Bitcoin nodes rely on the public Internet, the risk of centralization will always be there. This is something unavoidable since there's no such thing as 100% decentralization. Sometime in the future, we might be able to interact with new kinds of network protocols that would simplify the task of interacting with the Bitcoin blockchain in a decentralized manner. All in all, I hope that Bitcoin remains decentralized for years to come.

If Tor was so broken, cybercrime wouldn't exist. If privacy was impossible, Satoshi wouldn't be able to hide his identity for all these years. I think there's plenty enough proof that strong privacy is possible in modern age, that you can hide what you are doing from the government and ISPs if you are skilled enough. This means that they wouldn't know that you are using Bitcoin and wouldn't be able to stop it.

As for mesh networks, they are local, so they can't be used for Bitcoin, we need a single network that covers the whole work, otherwise each local network will have its own version of blockchain.

As your argument says so, Bitcoin is also centralized partially in nodes located in China. Apply the same logic/analogy to internet. These partial centralization is only among ISPs, that conform to a gateway to reach other parts of the world. Without them, it would be hard to lay your own cables and build infrastructure that would interconnect all the Bitcoin nodes. And even we are partially 'centralized' because of ISPs purpose to run our network, they still provide us freedom to what we do and connect to on the internet since it is our right, and doesn't really affect the decentralization of the network.

I do not see any relation about the internet and bitcoin. And as the members here say, by buying ISPs or FTP cables, routers and switches you can create your own home network (while I was studying at the university taking information and technology) no one was afraid of Internet.

Yes, I agree with this man. Although they play a major part in providing data that doesn't mean they are the authority itself of the INTERNET. It is just that it would be very hard to drop long cable just to connect to facebook's, amazon's or whatever it is. What they control is that the stuff we can manipulate and see on their platform but not the INTERNET itself, and ISPs are just trying to control the flow (might be speed) we received in different household who subscribe in such ISPs services.

So may be there is nothing need to be worried about? Bitcoin is decentralized as it is, and internet is decentralized.

Bitcoin is the first decentralized peer-to-peer payment network that is powered by its users with no central authority or middlemen. It will never become centralized. Can you imagine that a single person/group of people/company will own all Bitcoins? No. The system was created to prevent it.

Seems impossible to me The internet was not controlled by these large company, in my opinion, yes have a lot of access to almost everything on the internet and even our data.
But they cannot totally control what we are doing on the internet just my opinion and also bitcoin is already established in this kind of system we cannot change it.

Well, everything depends on the person's point of view. I believe that the public Internet brings a certain level of centralization to Bitcoin, as ISPs have a final say over what we can access. Of course, using TOR, VPN and other privacy solutions helps at some extent with connecting to the Bitcoin blockchain in a decentralized manner. But we all know nothing is perfect. Even Bitcoin's PoW consensus is centralized as Chinese miners dominate a large portion of it. The best way to achieve full-scale decentralization with Bitcoin is to use Satellites or personal networks. It'll be quite difficult to maintain the integrity of the Blockchain by relying on mesh networks, but I'm sure someone will come up with a solution for this.

Bitcoin will continue to carry on regardless of the current conditions of the Internet. But the Internet's dominance from worldwide governments and powerful corporations gives some concerns about how Bitcoin will be able to maintain its decentralization for the foreseeable future. I hope that I'm wrong and Bitcoin would turn out to maintain itself decentralized for a very long time. We could combine different techniques/methods in order to achieve censorship-resistance like never before. Just my opinion :)

I don't agree completely,  but I don't disagree completely neither.

There are some limitations in the internet the way it is, but there is still space for a free web. There are many initiatives like firefox,  bitcoin, bitcointalk,  reddit, 4chan, BitTorrent,  and so many other interesting initiatives

If you want you can just buy a domain and do whatever you want with it.

The internet is more decentralized and more free than the rest of the world and our lives.
Just take a look at the news for example. People are saying whatever they want here in the internet,  but they can't on TV. However,  you have to say what you want in your own platform,  not on someone else's,  like Facebook.

The more you think about it, the Internet is just a bunch of websites and IP addresses. And Google/Facebook/powerful governments collectively only control a time amount of websites (the size of those websites doesn't matter here). So these companies are not actually centralizing the internet, they are only centralizing their handful of websites versus 1.5 billion websites in existence.

Or maybe by centralized internet you mean IP addresses which are way more numerous than websites. In this case you might have a cause of concern considering the companies I just mentioned own a huge percentage of IPs. But then again, none of them are participating in the bitcoin blockchain, are they?

I think that there are degrees to decentralization that people simply don't realise.

There is no absolute decentralized entity or cryptocurrency. All there is is a spectrum from being entirely centralized money supply to a more distributed, equitable system. Bitcoin is one of the most decentralized currencies in that regard that you can access at this current moment.

As you say, some infrastructure is bound to be centralized one way or another. There is no way around that.

I think there is only a misinterpretation regarding with internet. First, let us first define what is internet? In my own understanding, it is a place where data stored and shared by millions of computers and gadgets all over the world. How come it will be centralized if people can modify or change something in internet. Maybe, there is some manipulation in other social media networks but there is always so called decentralization. Therefore, bitcoin can have it also since it is connected in internet.

I just want to correct one information here, we cannot store data on the internet, internet is the network that connects computers around the wotld, data is then stored to hard drives and data servers offered by different companies. Internet is just merely the platform for connection and it is considered decentralized as no one is owning the internet where cryptocurrency is working. Thus nodes and storages are also stored in different storage in different data servers.

I agree with you. Nobody forbids being anonymous on the Internet using a variety of tools. It's just that people allow to restrict them and observe their browsing activity, and then they shout that the Internet is centralized

This is not the decentralization dude, let me explain.


Nope, it's a myth, you can't do whatever you want with a domain name (whatever country you live in) You have to obey to your domain registrar and ICANN. It's already 2 middlemen to obey and you didn't even start to host your website. Then you have to obey the web hosting AUP, and so on...

Firefox, Reddit and Bitcointalk are centralized.
Because Firefox advertises to respect privacy, which is debatable at some points, it doesn't mean the product is decentralized. Platforms like Reddit and Bitcointalk are far to be decentralized. It's not because the rules claim you can say whatever you want, which is debatable at some point again, that you're on a decentralized platform. The same goes for 4Chan, it's not because you can post anonymously that it's decentralized

Let's think about how to decentralize the Internet.In any case, the Internet will not disappear, and the fact that I am engaged in bitcoin mining is unlikely to know my provider.It is not physically possible to build a decentralized Internet.And does it even make sense?Perhaps not exactly this but clearly improving the Internet is engaged in this company :https://noia.network (https://noia.network)

That's my point. Bitcoin could be decentralized by design, but the infrastructure used for Blockchain communication worldwide is not. The public Internet, is largely controlled by governments and ISPs alike. Of course, we got Tor, i2p and other alternative networks. But these same networks depend on the main Internet in some way (their binaries, source code, and everything lives on the public Internet itself). In the event governments decide to put an end to these alternative networks, they can easily do so by restricting people from downloading these alternative network's binary files. I think that Bitcoin would do better if it was based on some sort of mesh network, or personal area network (like Bluetooth). I even heard the possibility of sending Bitcoin through radio waves.

A better term for Bitcoin is "distributed" than "decentralized" because the way it works with the current Internet infrastructure. Until the Internet becomes owned by the people (not ISPs or governments), there will always exist that single point of failure which could put the entire Bitcoin network at risk. I hope that I'm wrong and Bitcoin would turn out to become decentralized over time. Otherwise, we'll be able to experience a decay in Bitcoin's decentralization as big companies (Blockstream & ISP companies), businesses (Binance & Coinbase), and big miners (Bitmain) take the lead in the cryptocurrency's direction within the mainstream world.

Nonetheless, it seems to me that "ZeroNet" will finally be able to serve as a "decentralized gateway" to the Bitcoin blockchain. But being relatively new, it's not as popular as other networks such as Tor and i2p. This, combined with locally-owned networks everyday people could make Bitcoin truly censorship resistant as we know it. Just my thoughts ;D

This is the reason why the idea of a network inside a network was done. Some call it "deep" but its just another network, that can run on top of internet without being checked, controlled or blocked. The whole point these networks its to break from these.

Internet topology is actually decentralized, it was made so it could withstand nuclear attacks. You cannot destroy something in particular to stop it, tho the lazy way things have been running lately actually could cause major disruption, to those who weren't ready (ie. already using Tor, etc). Censor resistance is one way to view it, neither State nor private entities should be controlling you.

Something on internet could some better centralization, DNS for starters. While not strictly necessary, few people know the IP number of some basic sites, in case DNS goes haywire. So you could start replacing that by not using the "main" DNS (alternatives do exist). And so on we could go with each of the elements.

If things go really bad, Bitcoin could go "deep", and it still would work running in a network that runs safe on top of the unsafe network. This scenario is already improbable on a worldwide level, its possible in some countries. A more proper description is just running nodes and pools as tor hidden services or their equivalent in similar networks (freenode, etc). But this is a worst case scenario which seems to have already been overcome. Still, there ARE nodes running in there...

Can you use internet without Google? Yes you can. It takes discipline but you can completely get rid of Google from your life. Centralized social networks are even easier, its only the stubborn contacts that won't just use decentralized alternatives.

Well that's probably one of the little flaws or risks. Internet existed long ago before bitcoin arrived. Bitcoin is actually born through internet. For now it really just being part of the system and we cannot deny the fact that we are really under the internet era. They have established it already and there are lots of factors to consider to decentralized internet. But I think there are geniuses who can think of ways to make it happen.

I think this is something people should be a little more conscious of.

In places where BTC could be most needed people may wind up with a useless string of characters unless they find a way to leave. Governments seem to be getting bolder with this as well.

Look at Kashmir. There's been an absolute internet blackout since August, not even landlines or cable TV are open. Eritrea is extremely blackout happy too as are a few other countries.

In Africa in particular there is no alternative infrastructure. There might 1 or 2 mobile internet networks. If they get one dirty phone call from the secret police the entire country vanishes from the map.

A problem for central internet blockchain. But how to create a similar structure. Everybody gonna put a transmitter on the roof of his house? So we can have a decentralized internet. An interesting development, but not impossible.

Okay , it might seem a little reasonable but one should understand that internet yes it might make Bitcoins centralized till an extent but that is only 1-3% .
Also at the same time internet needs to be centralized , a decentralized internet won't work , we need someone to handle all the operations , all the work , all the management and all , handle accusations there is just so many , if internet was completely centralized it would have been another thing , internet itself cannot control what internet does :)

"With enough capital, it's possible to secure Bitcoin in our homes with sophisticated ASIC machines too"

If this is the case then what makes it truly revolutionary? It almost Seem like another pay wall to block people and exercise centralized control no (not intentionally)? I don't think that the internet will ever be completely decentralized, nor will the proof of work consensus algorithm be needed within the future. Proof of work is starting to look more and more like just a working proof of concept for the blockchain, demonstrating the capabilities of the Bitcoin network. it was good at the time and created a whole world wide movement, but I don't think Satoshi meant for it to last forever, why else would the code be open source, if not to be upgraded and re-written?
  instead there should be a middle-ground where decentralization and centralization meet, as not to cancel each other out, but work in harmony. Freedom without order is Anarchy, while order without freedom is Tyranny.

Let's put it in another situation like this... It's like you're saying you can't achieve freedom because there is government controlling you with laws. But in reality, you still have freedom even if there's rules and regulations. Same situation with it. You cannot say that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency can't be decentralized just because internet is centralized. I disagree with this. You use internet with crypto. Even if others can control the internet, it doesn't mean they can control cryptocurrency since they are still decentralized in nature.

The internet might be centralized but this doesn't mean that bitcoin isn't decentralized too. Bitcoins are accessible with the use of internet but the technology supporting and improving bitcoin is what makes it decentralized. Moreover, internet is divided into several "servers" to support and to offer the fastest assistance so in a sense the internet is decentralized too.

Surely there are a number of geniuses who would find some or the other war but I can actually not find any huge problem being this. as OP said, even if the Internet is Centralized it runs the Decentralized currencies commonly known as the Cryptocurrencies so it is not yet a problem.

Also, I do not think that any of the entities like the government of the ISP's might ever ruin the running and circulation of the decentralized currencies form the World Wide Web entirely as there are a number of things which could be used to keep the usage of cryptocurrencies into circulation. Internet is huge now and I do not really believe that someone might really have the access to each and every corner of internet so it might not be something to worry for us.

I agree if bitcoin was centralized I think lot of people will lose interest on it because someone can control the value of it.  Not because internet is centralized means they can also control cryptocurrency becuase it was different.  But without internet we cant access and used cryptocurrency.

Can the Internet become decentralized? This is possible but there may be a decrease in data transfer rates. Or the space is completely filled with internet satellites. This time the door of another system opens. I think this will happen. Bitcoin will also be fully independent.

Reading this, I somewhat have to believe you. But being centralized means being flicked by any of the association or the government which even gives full access to the usability of the Internet but we could see a lot of illegal things already going onto the internet today.

If the Internet was centralized than why would the governments not actually stop the use of such illegal concepts onto their so-maned Internet? We could see the use of Deep web, Tor, etc which is most harmful for the community but yet those are into existence which itself explains us that no one actually has the 100% control over the internet which actually does not make it centralized.

Point taken. So, could you consider that if we have decentralized internet the percentage of hacking incident will decrease? I mean hackers wouldn't be able to easily pass through in the system or not? Or I'm just hallucinating about this. Lol!

Sure, nothing is impossible and we have good bitcoin developers so maybe eventually they'll have to consider about being real and fully decentralized of bitcoin.

In the first place internet is really decentralized, we just have some providers or the internet service providers that help us to be connected to the internet that makes it centralized. But they seem to not provide sufficient security features at all. If you have an internet connection, most of the cases, you are making yourself vulnerable to hacking not because of centralization, but because of lacking the personal responsibility you should have to keep yourself secured.

I once read an article that sending bitcoin is possible without the internet.
what facility is used to send bitcoin without the internet is radio waves.
also possible to use satellite. if I remember the article I meant I would edit this post to put the URL link.

Good point. Where there's a will, there's a way. With many alternatives networks & protocols available today, it's possible that one could interact with the Bitcoin blockchain under the radar of ISPs, and mainstream governments alike. The Internet is just a global network of interconnected computers by different means (LAN or WLAN). The average Joe could easily setup his own Internet by connecting different computers between each other. In the public Internet, one could use a combination of VPN and Tor (or any other alternative network) to obfuscate potentially identifiable information. The tech world is constantly evolving, and now we have ways to communicate off-grid without the need to use the mainstream Internet at all. I've seen how it's possible to send/receive Bitcoin transactions over radio waves and even satellites. You can also interact with Bitcoin using mesh network antennas.

It's true that we can use the Internet without relying on mainstream companies such as Google or Facebook. But we cannot deny that avoiding these companies, would make our life much more complicated than we've ever imagined. Sometimes centralized services exist to make our life much easier. You'd have to choose between convenience/ease of use or decentralization/censorship-resistance. Most people will choose convenience over censorship-resistance as they prefer everything to be done in the least amount of time (and in an easier way) possible. But you and me, would choose the latter option as we'd get to keep control of our utmost personal and financial information. As long as there's diversity in cyber space, there's nothing to worry about. In all ends, Bitcoin can still be used in a decentralized fashion even though the Internet is somewhat centralized. Just my thoughts ;D

Governments are always looking for ways to control every system, especially financial ones, cryptocurrencies have gotten out of hand a little. I think that even using VPNs, proxy or the famous Deepweb there may be a kind of "centralization" because if a person commits a crime there are security agencies that are responsible for monitoring (FBI),
if they want to get you, they will do it anyway

I personally think that cryptocurrencies are: centralized for people with little furtive knowledge, and decentralized for those who manage well in places like deepweb. (speaking of avoiding all contact with the system) from the daily point of view they are decentralized because we know that it is managed by a network of nodes that connect blocks with mathematical codes that change hash each time it fulfills its function. a centralized cryptocurrency could be a stable-coin / fiat currency.

I agree with the author.
Bitcoin is connected to the Internet, nothing can be done about it. Of course, there are paper wallets with bitcoins, but how to check them without the Internet? They may be complete or may be empty.
And if you suddenly do not have an Internet connection, then your bitcoins become practically nothing, they exist, but you cannot spend them.

No doubt internet is a reason for creation of BITCOIN but the programming and networking of BTC is totally different,Internet is just a source for operations of Bitcoin but there is no any direct relativity to control the Bitcoin.

Bitcoin itself bank,an asset,medium of exchange at the same time,Uniqueness of Bitcoin is that still no one can control it.It is a system that can bring more revolution in the financial market.

No authority, no bank, not even internet can control Bitcoin. Internet is the biggest medium used by the Bitcoin for its working but I recently read somewhere that we will be able to make Bitcoin transactions without internet soon. As it is developing there will be time when it will not be dependent on internet anymore. People will be able to use it with Bluetooth and all other non-internet connections.

it still cannot be tested offline using technology other than the internet, security protocols will not be better, and the range of the transmitter also cannot be expanded and only applies in a limited area. I haven't read a more concrete technology other than the development of the internet in more decentralized media such as the use of blockstreams and similar technologies.

How about everyone sending internet balloons in the sky (community owned internet?) in prearranged way to revolve around the earth & send/receive data around isolated communities without internet? This could help decentralize the internet, I guess. There are probably other cheap ways to create community-owned internet that's more suitable for Bitcoin/crypto & function in a decentralized manner around the world.

That sounds like a great idea. But I wonder if people will be interested in making this happen? So far, most people don't care about centralization issues as long as they're able to "get the work done". Bitcoin works great with the current public Internet infrastructure despite leading to a certain level of centralization. For paranoic crypto enthusiasts, alternative networks seem to be the way to go. For the average Joe, the public Internet will suffice for accessing the Bitcoin blockchain.

I believe that the more we work together towards making Bitcoin decentralized, the better it'll be for its longevity within the mainstream world. Too much centralization will lead towards failure in the long run. At least, the openness in Bitcoin's design allows anyone to develop new means to communicate with it without the need to rely on the public Internet infrastructure. It's now possible to send/receive Bitcoin transactions over radio waves, satellites, mesh networks, and more. As long as it's possible to disguise IPs of Bitcoin nodes from ISPs and worldwide governments, there's nothing to worry about. Just my thoughts ;D

As far as I know, we have these offline wallets but I don't think that is that good since I don't see or hear anyone talking or using it anymore. Another thing is that we are accessing our bitcoins through our bitcoin wallets, a bitcoin wallet is our key to our bitcoin that is why we can't really do anything about it. Here's the thing though, you can still access your bitcoins even the government ban it in your country, it is not like they can stop you from accessing it.

One way or another, bitcoins can lose their independence, and cryptocurrency users do not anonymize because of the centralized Internet, but because the legalization of cryptocurrencies will enforce certain laws.  In addition, the use of the Internet to work with cryptocurrency, in particular with bitcoin, is only a connection and nothing more, since in some cases you can even use Bluetooth to complete a transaction, about which discussions are very hot today.

Of course it can. However, the internet is still decentralized, there is a VPN that you can use to overcome limitations and maintain privacy while using the internet. There are several internet protocols that try to innovate by utilizing the blockchain to create complete freedom on the internet, such as Tachyon, although it is still in a development project I think this should be appreciated because its supporters are strong. transmission acceleration can also be increased by tcp / ip reconstruction, it is effective and offers a good deal for users.

Who even cares if internet is centralized or not? we have VPN every where online right? And moreover bitcoin is not running on the internet but blockchain, internet is only required to make transaction, you only have a point if blockchain was internet

The title is a bit confusing but I get the point. For sure we all know that the bitcoin is decentralized because of the miners the mine bitcoin and process the transactions also it is not centralized because no one control bitcoin or regulates bitcoin. Thinking about bitcoin I think it is clear that it has nothing to do with the bitcoin technology we just use it to connect, either way, internet is both centralized and decentralized,, decentralized because it composed of a lot of routers that bounce information also at the same time, for example, we visit one website that only has one server that whats makes it centralized.

I am still trying to understand what you mean by the internet being centralized, if you’re referring to all these companies like Google, Facebook, and Amazon as you have said, then you’re completely wrong. And by the way, Amazon has nothing to do with controlling the internet, it’s just an online shopping platform and nothing else.

Facebook is a social media platform and they will only be focusing on that and nothing else. Google is just a search engine like Yahoo, Bing, Yandex, etc. These people don’t control the internet, they just help you reach the content you need. If it was able for them to control the internet and control Bitcoin, then the government would have started up similar platforms and their first targets would even be the dark web and not even Bitcoin, because there are lots of weird things going on there than you can imagine.

It's true that the aforementioned companies don't control the Internet in their entirety. But technically they do, since their services are indispensable within cyber space. A person cannot live nowadays without using Google, Facebook, or even Amazon. One fact is that Amazon also provides cloud services (storage, web hosting, etc), which are not limited only to e-commerce. Considering that most people don't care about using centralized services which steal their utmost sensitive information, decentralizing the whole Internet would be quite a difficult (if not impossible) task to achieve.

Bitcoin may be decentralized by design, but it still depends on the centralized public Internet for transaction broadcasting. While you could say anyone can use privacy solutions like Tor & VPN, these same solutions are not 100% anonymous. If you become the target of ISPs and the government, it'll be difficult to use Bitcoin without getting noticed. That's why we need a decentralized Internet infrastructure in order to maintain the Bitcoin blockchain as resilient as possible. After all, Bitcoin full node operators are subject to different governments' regulations.

Nonetheless, the implementation of satellites, radio waves, and even mesh networks may be the first step to further decentralized the way we access the Bitcoin blockchain. But a lot of hard work needs to be done in order to provide a perfect solution that would resist the opposition of worldwide governments and ISPs. Just my thoughts ;D

Definitely, even if the government regulating the use of bitcoin, you can actually buy your own because in my own opinion, the internet is decentralized because we are all able to access it without knowing who is moderating. Let us say that there are particular website or application can regulate you but in all, internet is decentralized.
 This is one of the answer if you want to buy bitcoin but your country regulates it. Although firewall are being used in your country but this VPN can allow you ti change your IP and location. Nothing can stop us buying bitcoin because we have experienced the greatness of this digital currency ourselves.