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Not much info has been given, but we know that speed is much better than S17 Pro and S17+ while power usage is close to them. However 29.5±%5 J/TH is insane!

3.25 kW for 110TH/s is going to destroy S9's.

Also, as I said it a few times on forum (and not that anyone is counting, but I was right!) they announced new miners soon after most coupons expired. There are a few coupons that should expire on February 29th, so 1st March would be a logical release date for new miners. And first batch will likely be shipped during May.

Links for reference:

Antminer S19 Pro 110TH/s (https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020200226232356122Y0FHc2rQ0657)
Antminer S19 95TH/s (https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020200226232118862HkRFpgGv06CE)
Bitmain's Tweet (https://twitter.com/Antminer_main/status/1232913641353072640)

https://i.imgur.com/WE8uliy.png (https://i.imgur.com/WE8uliy.png) https://i.imgur.com/Q6wnH46.png (https://i.imgur.com/Q6wnH46.png)

https://i.imgur.com/mf74FHu.png (https://i.imgur.com/mf74FHu.png) https://i.imgur.com/TkN8EWn.png (https://i.imgur.com/TkN8EWn.png) https://i.imgur.com/xBTpBzy.png (https://i.imgur.com/xBTpBzy.png)

So a 1 speed 3300 watt miner.
I would have liked more then one speed setting.
These will be a hard sell item with coins under 9000  and the 1/2 ing right around the corner.

I am not sure that they have specifically said that it only has one speed, and you know that "Pro" version has had more than one speed so far.

Yeah, seems a bit odd that as soon as they released (a day or two before as well) coins dropped, but I do not think this will be a hard sell. Personally, I am going to buy a few, and I hope it won't get sold out too quickly as they usually do.

Also, everything depends on price, 2000$ will probably be too low, 4000$ will probably be too high, I think it is going to be somewhere between those two targets, although I would love it to be lower than 3000$.

3000 is really high unless it ships really fast.
the over view shows one speed. really sucks to have one speed.

at todays prices it earns 15 usd and burns 80 kwatts.

at 1/2 ing it earns 7.50 and burns 80 kwatts.  five cent power it costs 4 a day.

so it earns 11 a day right now
it earns 3.50 a day at 1/2 ing

it is a risk to get a lot.

i will get one of each and look for more. down the road.

They said in a twitter post it goes as low as 23w/th.  I am assuming they have multiple modes on them, like a low power mode and such.

3000 might be high for you subjectively but imagine having a 100 TH/s for 3000 USD last year. I am just saying, I expect them to be just around that number (or even higher).

True true, I understand where your math comes from, but I do not think that price is going to stagnate as well as difficulty.

S9s are going to get turned off a lot (diff going down) and price *SHOULD* go up to accommodate miners.

It is true that it is a risk, but hasn't it always been a risk? Nothing is really much different than last halving.

I really hate the 3k watts - until I build a new warehouse, the current one cannot handle 3k watt miners without a complete rewiring. I guess I will just have to hope for getting some of the T17/S17 variants for cheap.

and to think nearly 2 years ago to date, S9's were 2300 a piece and selling like hotcakes.

I am wired that I can add a lot of these but they scare me.  I would prefer they did 2800 watts or less.

I will get them to replace  the 28 s9's I have.

The nice thing is  28 x 1100 = 31 kwatts and maybe 336 th
9 of these =  30 kwatts  and 990th

I guess we can now say that any kind of home / low power mining is done. It's a shame really, we all knew it was coming but this really proves it. More power hungry equipment with no low power stuff out there at all.

Ah well, it was fun while it lasted.

-Dave

they should have an option to buy the miners with the number of hash boards requested by the buyer - example, if it has 4 boards and runs at 110 th with 3300 watts - why not let the buyer specify 2 boards to get 55 th and use 1650 watts

I mean you could essentially buy them and do this yourself but that would get expensive to just remove half the hashboards unless you can get a second controller and a second case for relatively cheap.

the controllers will be 60 to 100

the psu around 150

the trick is getting a case.  this idea is worth some merits.

imagine that - if you could bulk order cases - hmm would old s9 cases work for two boards? maybe make use of the shells and the old psu's - take the old hash boards and use for the projects like the Terminus.r606 which uses S9 chips.

or just take the S19's apart - after all, they will most likely be two S9 shells combined right?

Hmm I have 28 s9's  If I pull the fans and the shells maybe I build a cheap easy case for a doctored s17 first

then try a doctored s19 or s19 pro.

If you put these out right away they could be a nice item to sell.

If they are 3 board units you could sell 3

1 board units

pretend a full unit is 2400

I think a 1 board unit could go for 1100 assuming you tamed the sound levels

so 3 x 1100 = 3300 -2400 = 900 but added parts are at least 450.  the killer is the psu will be over 150 shipped.

the psu is basically bespoke oem part along with the controller  the two will be close to 225 shipped to usa.

if the S9 cases work - i wonder how much it would be to just buy hashboards and controllers - without the existing case/psu - might be able to save some $ there.

at you 3 board idea (i only chose 4 to be even but you are most likely correct and it will be 3)

that would be around 37 th units at 1100 watts.  I would imagine those selling like hotcakes if the price is right. I have the idea but sadly not the capital to make it happen - hopefully someone will and make a profit from my idea lol hell, i might buy a few (maybe i can get a discount) lol.

Efficiency on pro model looks nice, but non-pro version has almost same efficiency as S17 Pro. Without more details on specs and if low power mode available, I think I may pass. Seems like possible dump of 7nm chips right before 5nm and repeat of S15. Market as "future of mining" and then release something better a few months later.

Yeah  could happen like you say so I am only getting one or two of these to start.

As for getting 100th for 3000

I got 15 s9s with psu’s for 3000. about 210th my power deal is 50-50 split.

so I mined the entire 2019 year with the equivalent of 105th and zero power cost.

I am always floating between old gear cheap price.
new gear for high price.

cheap priced gear due to  poor  power numbers is good for me
expensive priced gear due to  great power numbers is good for my host.

so i try to have some of each.

My conspiracy....

It's the same chips as a S17... Just a ton of them...

I can get a s17 down to 25w/th ad 36th/s

These are running at 35w/th (to compete with microbt)

These also weigh a few KILOS more than a S17....

What is heavy on a miner.... THE HEATSINKS!

My conspiracy's the same S17 chips just a fuckload more (like the + models) downclocked (like the + models) and a fuck load of heatsinks for each of the chips. It would explain the weight and it is VERY doable.

If this is the case I can't wait to make a firmware to push these things to the 3600W max of the psu and run them at 125+ th/s or make these things run at 25w/th and be super efficient.

and wouldnt ya know it, bitcoin was over 10k for 3 straight days and all my coupons are expired but now btc is down - i think they have enough btc and cash to swing the market to make coupons all sadly expire right before new equipment, i have had over 30 coupons expire in same situation - a few days to a week before new gear is announced/released.

Exactly my thinking!

But if I were Bitmain, I would do the same tbh...

Nah  they will have a lot of trouble selling this gear.  If coins are at 8500 no one will order.

To think they dropped btc price to kill off coupons  makes less sense than jacking up price to sell  more gear.

Unless they plan to pump BCH or BSV  to sell gear.

So this is copying the M20S idea? Just a bigger case and MOAR hashboards? Is this thing going to need two 1800w power cables? 4 140mm fans?

Well at least the firmware shouldn't be much different then, hopefully...

easy, buy btc to raise the value so that their miners now look like a good deal.

Nah  I can tell you that is not a move they would make. The $$$ lost in dropping price down to 8500 from 10500 is too much to bother.

Maybe but they can raise the price of btc - remember its in their best interest to lower btc value when selling as well - lets then get more of our btc

Agreed but at 8500 a coin the new model does not look very special.

In 65-70 days ½ ing comes and the new gear barely turns a profit.

That's a great idea as far as the buyers are concerned, but if I were Bitmain I would never attempt doing something like that unless I was having a hard time selling the gears which never seem to be the case with all the new gears they make.

The first issue I can think of is support and warranty, every item they sell = time and money to troubleshoot/replace, instead of selling 1 unit you expect them to send 2 and deal with double the issues/replacements and support tickets, the cost is also another factor. Control board, PSU, fans, case, etc. cost less when divided by 4 rather than 2 even if the PSU was smaller for the 2 boards unit, there is a base cost to everything they make, they will also need to pay more $ for the design and making different case sizes, all of that is extra trouble and extra cost, and while they can easily sell the gears as they are, they will never go out of their way and do any of that.

---

I imagine these gears to sell extremely fast, with all the noobs jumping in to buy the legendary 110TH miners without running the numbers, I am also sure they will release these prior to the halving to sell as many as they can, the halving is here and it will hit pretty hard, it will destroy many dreams and probably shut down a lot of farms, my plan is to wait for these gears to hit the market, then comes the halving, prices of older gears will be a lot cheaper, then buy all the S17 pros I can afford.

Yeah buying cheap s17 pros  sounds good.

I think I am going to trying to make 3 units from 1. s19pro   get taserz to program them to do lower watts  like 900 and do 36th

then see if there is a market for a 36th 900watt miner. for home owners.

these will not be cheap  as  3 boards need 3 cases and 3 psu's and 3 controllers.

I estimate a controller and a psu to be  250 usd .  A case may be only 50 with modding a set of s9's and adding 4 new fans

so add 300 in parts for 1 unit 600 in parts for 2 units.

so a 2400 miner add 600 = 3000 in parts for 3x 36 th 900 watt miners.  so add 200 for my profit labor and design. Then 50 to ship it maybe I could sell a model at 1250.  that would be 3750 for 3  or 2400 for the loud one.

It is a fair markup for a custom pretested design with preloaded software. I would even kick a piece of this back to kano and ck since they kind of did cgminer which bitmain robbed. calling it bminer.

most likely it is just a pipe dream on my part.

true - but my guess is that right after halving there will be newer versions.


I would do it as well but I would not want anything other than official firmware - would the original firmware not work if there is only one hash board installed?

I have zero idea what s19 pro   firmware will do.

But if I make a ⅓  miner for home mining I have to make it not that loud.

If the s19 pro has 1 speed.  I will need after market.

even at 1/2 or 1/3 it will be quieter and even then if it still as loud as an s9 - it will still sell i bet because will want the power draw that is close to a s9 in lpm but with like triple the hash power. I might end up doing one just so i can run it as 3 miners - cuz I sure as hell cannot run it as 1 miner with over 3k watts.

If the price is around 3k, it would make much more sense to use the S17s still no? You'd most likely break even and even turn a profit till the next machine comes

As to what  you  should buy next.

S17 pro with 3 speeds

s19 pro with 1 speed

I would buy an s17 pro with 3 speeds.

Basically buying s19 pro with 1 speed means you are going to need to use aftermarket firmware.

I have a mix of

s7ln      1 piece
s9       19 pieces
s9i        4
s9k       4
s15       1
s17       1
s17pro 14

t15        1
t17        2
t17e      2
t17+      1

avalon
a721     1
a1041   2
a1066   2

whatsminer
m10     2
m20     2
m21s   1

innosilcon
t2t24    1
t3t39    1
t3t50    1

and  of all that gear above  I need to run 6 units at less then top speed or they overheat and crash.

So to me  I will get:

1 s19 pro
1 s19

work with them  decide if they are okay.   If they have 1 speed they are not okay.

I will look for a low priced s17 pro with 3 speeds.

I do not use any aftermarket firmware on all of the above

except for 1 s9 it has braiins.

having a 3 speed s17 pro or s19 pro if it does that  is my choice going forward.

My 14 s17 pros are all under paypal warranty so I do not fuck with aftermarket firmware.

If anything, Bitmain will probably make some new machines right after the S19 seeing as it is probably using the same old chip (as tazers suggested) just tuned way down. After the halvening there is a high chance that we will finally see 25w/th

Could you explain how the Paypal warranty works? It's been a while since I've used them, but I thought that they were anti-crypto.

when they launched it's come in sometime 95t 93t 90t for S19

like s17+ 73t officially come. after that they sell 67t 70t.

sometime they force to change to another T what they have

He is probably referring to an extended warranty program available through their credit cards. PayPal by itself only allows you to file a claim within 180 days, but wouldn't cover a device that stopped working. You're only covered for significantly not as described or items not received.

PayPal does case by case on items that don't work.

Ie

If you ordered 100 of these and make 25 claims basically fuck you we are not helping.

But if you ordered 14 (like I did ) and make a claim for one on month five you will most likely win out.

But I am a power ebay/paypal user since 2003.  I have over 1 million dollars in buys and sells with very few claims.

So I may get better treatment then most people.

Probably only needs the exhaust fans too. Aka 2 fans not 4.

How successful have you been in filing claims with items that stopped working or broke? I've been on eBay since the 90s with 100% positive buyer/seller feedback rating. I know PayPal's standard buyer protection is not a product or service warranty and used to state so in their policies. They'll also deny a claim if you can't return the item in the same condition it was received.

I had one guy a few years ago attempt to scam me on last day of 30-day return period on a miner I sold through eBay claiming he fried a hash board. eBay sided with me because he couldn't return it in the condition received based on his own statements. I doubt there was any damage to it because he also refused to provide any photos and stopped communicating, while escalating for review.

Unless you received it DOA or damaged, I don't see how they'd ever side with you unless they ignore their own policies or you lie. Breaking after use would be manufacturer warranty (if one exists), and with Bitmain, that's pretty much non-existent for any kind of board damage.

I am afraid to do a gestimateROI for these do to the halving.

based on:
Antminer S17+ 67TH/s - $23/TH (@40W/TH); and
Antminer T17+ 55TH/s - $16.50/TH (@50W/TH)
plus shipping 21-30, Apr. 2020 and previous antminer experience of selling new gear while having pended orders at a later date makes me think...

Could mean that Antminer S19 Pro 110TH/s - should cost between $1850 to $2500 based on the TH current price.

Will probably get one not to remain behind  ;D

I am waiting but I am not looking to buy anytime soon.

Bitmain is currently working on home page of their International and Russian website and miners are disappearing and coming back from time to time (which might indicate that S19s and S19s Pro are soon going to be open for sale.

Everything on international and Russian website of Bitmain has been sold out and deleted from home page as of now.

This is how Russian website looks now (and how international one looke a few minutes before I posted this reply):

https://i.imgur.com/o2fT0am.png (https://i.imgur.com/o2fT0am.png)

you had s17 pros available ?

Sadly, nope! I would've already bought them if they were available.

They were just sitting there with other 17 generation miners. And it said on each of them "TBD" or "Price is being specified"(if you translate Russian website).

With the current exchange rate collapse, I wouldn’t feel like buying an S19 is a good idea now either. Hopefully another miner advancement such as the S19 along with the block reward halving will spur some of the larger mining farms into pouring a lot of fresh cash into Bitcoin in order to upgrade. It’s hard to envision a scenario where an early S19 purchase would be better than waiting for lower prices and a higher exchange rate.

Actually, I think it is worth buying it as soon as it comes out. Bitmain will be forced to lower the prices due to current recession and they will probably pump up those prices if BTC spikes again. However, waiting for S21(presumably) is another good option.

Personally, I would buy at least 2 S19s but I am unable since Bitcoin tanked and I have to save cash as we are currently in quarantine in our country.

Regarding the above, if they do like Innosilicon (the Inno A10 went from $2600 to $2800 and now $3000), they might just put the price slightly up due to partial people at work (or any other excuse). At least for anything new being manufactured and not the ones already made.

Also, https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/tsmc-5nm-chip-production-process-technology , the 5nm chip production line has been fully booked  ::); guess S21 will come at a high price to encourage the previous stock to be purchased?

That is not just "probably" that's for sure but with the halving around the corner, I rather buy/keep bitcoin as opposed to buying miners, the reason is simply put the halving will negatively affect the S19 and either positively affect BTC or do nothing at all.

I took a great risk of buying gears during last year's bear market, and it worked very well, I explained more in details here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5161599.0), the situation now, however, is completely different.

1- The virus and the overall condition we have.

If for some reason my city is hit by the virus and I am forced to stay home due to mandatory quarantine, it will be impossible for me to go the farm when needed, imagine having 5*S19s that cost you 15k or 3 BTC sitting 30km away, and they need a simple reset or the circuit breaker trips and you can't even go out.

Also with all the mess we have, there is a good chance that prices will dip lower

2- The halving.

I wouldn't be buying a single gear before the halving, 53 days to go assuming sales start in April, I get the gears a week later, 1 month to mine before the halving is not even close to being "Enough", and unless Bitcoin price doubles, gear prices will and MUST go down.

For the time being, my plan is simple, cash-out enough to survive, keep some fiat in case we dip any lower so that I can buy more cheap bitcoin, accumulate some bitcoin for the long term.

Yeah this is a good point  my 2ph sha-256 and 11gh L3+ are 57 miles from my house.  My host/partner is in food distribution so he can go to the warehouse every day. but  if there is a major issue  all he can do is turn gear on and off.

I am happy I don't have 10x s19 pros on order.

We have 1 s17+ it was due to ship in early march.

All the gear is paid off we can turn it off and wait for the shit to stop hitting the fan if we have to do this.

I still see BTC doing better then USD the next 2 months to 6 months.  rather then the other way around.

At the moment my ratios are

 gear heavy
 debt low
 coins low
 cash medium.

not perfect but could be worse.

I got a sneak peek on the first batch date as well as prices, May 10 to 20  for the first batch, price is $2100 for S19 and 2900 for S19 pro.

I am 99% certian my source is reliable, in fact they are so confident that they started to take pre-orders starting from today.

What do you guys think of these prices given they are post-halving.

That is not a sneak peek, but rather almost exact information. Miners are up for sale on Chinese website.
Prices are very close to what you said as well as dates (they are shipping right on halving dates).

Also, internationally, they will be selling soon but big miners can already contact them and get offers.

I will be updating OP as soon as they release prices for international sale.

I see only 1 speed for the pro thus I consider these to be shit gear.

The 17e was well over rated watts
The 17+  breaks a lot.

At 2900 for a one speed unit I won't be buying any of the gear.

Never mind 2900 price for May 30 shipping.

https://i.imgur.com/leAnBG3.png (https://i.imgur.com/leAnBG3.png)

I agree that for that price for a delivery date AFTER halving is insane. and not having options for controlling the speed is another "doh" moment.

Sadly, many will buy these, difficulty will climb and those of us who use older gear will get left behind with diminishing profits.

Though, I am glad to see this next coming diff drop. will be refreshing to see it go the other way for once.

That being said, I have sold half my T17's so hoping to sell the other half soon so I can buy 2100 non pro version. It is at least still better efficiency and looks to be 800 less than the pro version, though 15 th less as well.

Or maybe I dont sell the other T17s and just keep those going - though after halving, unless price goes up considerably they will no longer be profitable. I dont want to exit mining but its gonna be a tough field to be in unless some things change.

I always thought the pricing would land over 3000 for the S19, I guess the bad market and unexpected events have completely changed the outlook for mining sales in 2020.

It will be interesting to see how many of the S19 thst Bitman will be able to produce and put into the market place.

S19 starts feeling like another S15 dont you think?

agreed. I need there to be a miner that sticks around like the S9 did...

I felt that the S17 and M20S was the new flagships. I mean S19 is amazing, it almost feels like Bitmain and MicroBt is killing the market for themselfes a bit.

It is not always easy to interpret the Chinese and their price setting or production mentality.

I agree the S9 edition felt exactly like the iphone 4, mass produced, stable and very good engineered and marketed hardware.

Entering into the 5nm and 3nm feels so immature for the market.

Looking forward to hear the outside China price for the S19 units. It should be around 30% off, that is normal?

Yea they are on damn crack thinking $2900 lmao.  Anyone who buys this gear at that price I feel no sympathy for when you most likely get screwed.  So essentially $3000+ for something that at CURRENT market (Not even talking about after halving which would have to be double what it is now JUST TO BE THE SAME as current earnings) brings in like $2-3 a day.  You would need to really really be uneducated on essentially everything to buy at this price.

well if I had one today - at current diff/btc price i would bring in about $10.50 a day with about 4.30 for electric so just around $6 per day profit.

once the market is flooded with them - it will drop fast unless btc price climbs.

Ok seems like my source got the shipping date off by 1 day, and actual prices now are  $2928 for the pro (off by $28), and the S19 is $2184 (off by $84), or maybe that price is for bulk orders, I know bitmain does that, are you aware of when the prices were listed on the Chinese website? because last I checked there were not there.


I am not sure if that will happen, it's a Chinese culture to give the other Chinese a lead especially when supply is somehow limited, the fact that they started to take orders from Chinese miners/resllers prior to the international website makes me think they don't have enough S19/S19 pros to deliver for the first batch.


This and the fact that you can't even remotely guess the profitability by the end of May, you got the virus and the halving, those two combined make me hesitate about buying any mining gear.

Also, I have always opposed the idea of putting so many eggs in one basket, despite its efficiency I rather have 2-3 S17 pro to 1 S19 pro, if you lose a control board or a PSU, you will have a 110th sitting there for weeks doing nothing if you lose a hash board after running for a month or so, that's a $1000 loss, big rich players might not care about this, but to the average miner like myself, that makes a lot of difference.

And you think they will flood the market with them.

No way  they simply won't sell well at all.

The s17 pros on low speed do 35-36 watts a th.

these claim to do 29 watts a th with only 1 speed.

all the 1 speed s17+, s17e ,t17e, t17+  ran poorly.  Only morons will buy this gear.  It is going to sit and not sell well.

i think there will be plenty of big farms that will dump current miners and buy these up.

Nope I think plenty of big farms will fold if they have not already switched to s17 or s17pro.

If they switched to s17 or s17 pro  they are not going to buy these. But I am wrong a lot.  Maybe I will be wrong here.

we shall see.

Prices were up (and selling started) at 14:00 (GMT +8) if I remember correctly. I checked in at 16:30 (GMT +8) and they were still selling with exact prices you just listed here.

Also, I checked fifteen minutes ago and S19 Pro's were sold out while S19 were still up for sale (not 100% sure about current situation).

International shipping has not yet been disclosed nor has been price posted on their English website.

Then my post was after they released the prices on their Chinese website, but the strange thing is they knew these prices before 14:00 Beijing time, or at least this is what they told me, they also told me the international delivery for the first batch will not be 11 to 20 May but rather later around early June, if that's true, then I will lean towards thinking that some Chinese do get to sneak peek on things before even other Chinese know about them, let alone none-Chinese miners like ourselves, heck they haven't even listed the K5 miner on their international website yet.

Has it ever been established what chips are in these s19's.  Is it not possible that these are still 7nm BM1397?  Whatsminer is getting 86 th out of the 8nm?

I have a feeling that the S19 pro might be a 5nm model? and the S19 is an updated 7 nm chip. Remember that the 7nm chip has been around since the S15.

It is a bit funny situations when the manufacturers rather not speak too much about the chipsets in public.

I have a feeling that the Whatsminer people used the 10nm for the m20s and m21s models and have now done an update of the same chips, Whatsminer did state in social media that they experienced problems with the wafers and that the expected yield was far off the set-out targets, I suspect this made them move back to 10nm from the 8nm. Hence the poor power efficiency.

Bitmain is clearly ahead and leading the way, the power efficiency is a clearly a good clue/indication to what's inside the machine specs.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15219/early-tsmc-5nm-test-chip-yields-80-hvm-coming-in-h1-2020

I highly doubt that those are 5nm chips. Just look at the dimensions, it is much larger than the s17, so I believe they put larger amount of 7nm chips and run them on lower voltage (therefore the lower w/TH).

You could be right, but wasn't there a lot of problems in the 17 model with cooling also? 29.5 joules is super efficient, its gotta be a 5nm in there. The weight for the S19Pro is also slighthly lower vs the S19 model.

If its a 5nm first time, exspect a machine improvement within months, a 20 joules machine is not far of the horizons?

There was never a wide problem with S17 (any model), there was quite a few PSU problems on S17 Pro (some versions).

It could be that these (S19 models) are still 7nm, but no one knows exactly...

Also, on the other not, S19 is still for sale on Chinese website, while S19 Pro has been sold out.
And they were all limited to 10 per user there so I guess we will see the same when it goes live internationally.

I'm not sure about flooding but yea exactly $6/day NOW.  Meaning after halving $3/day not to mention how much the difficulty goes up because of this from china farms upgrading.  Then who knows what the price will be or how markets will be.  This is simply a terrible terrible buy.  It's almost laughable how bad of a buy it is.  I am waiting for a next miner release over this one, not to mention with all that's going on, expect huge delays shipping electronics from china.

 i will be mining with current gear.
 i will be turning off all s9 gear in may.
 i simply think this gear ⚙️ is worth about 1500 not 2900. and at 1500 I would only buy it if it had multiple speeds not just one.

tomorrow the diff will adjust around 14% in miners favor.

my 2ph becomes 2.28 ph without spending  a time.

I will wait this shit out.

i already sold off half my hash rate and based on the specs/prices of the S19 I am already regretting it. Guess I better keep the half I have and keep mining or sell it and just hodl the btc for now

A lot of the speed improvements are probably not shrinking chips but getting more efficiency out of the ones that they have now.
Years ago Intel and AMD were doing the same thing. Processors were getting a bit faster and a bit more efficient, not because they were getting the dies smaller or upping the voltage but because they tweaked this and that and could run them better.

Early Pentiums were a good example. Socket 8 -> slot1 -> Socket 370.
Yes the dies got smaller, but they could really ratchet up the speed as other things on the chips changed and the manufacturing process got better, not smaller.

Back in day there were a lot of arguments slot vs. socket.

-Dave

*Yes I do know there were die shrinks I said that above but once they were confident in yields they stopped the slot use.

Considering Bitmain's increasing distance between their domestic sales and international sales it's making the s19's less lucrative at the current pricing.

I will also wait this out, purchasing machines with lead time has proven to be unwise in the past.

Not a good feeling seeing the machine you have paid a huge premium for sale for 50 % less just a few months later. buying with lead time also enables the manufacturer to produce more models, its almost like a customer suicide to give them funds upfront. at least that's what happened with the Whatsminer models m20s and m21s last time around.

the S17+ 73TH for 1500 dollars seems very affordable right now compared to the S19.

Bitmain has this weird habit of passing the "keys" to the resellers at certain periods where the near future is hard to forecast, buying a good percentage of my gears off-Bitmain I always keep a close eye on the Chinese resellers market, Bitmain screws them really hards at times, I will not be surprised seeing Bitmain drop prices on the S19/S19 pro for international orders after selling enough to the local market, it happened before and it can very well happen again.

I am hoping they  hold back and don't release any new gear for USA  until  April 15.

We  are planning to shut our 28 s9's down  soon.

We would like to push them until the ½ ing.

a 14 th machine is earning 50 a month  with free power.  they drop to 25 a month once ½ ing comes
these new 110 units earn  400 a month with free power.  they drop to 200 a month once ½  ing comes.

S9 out of pocket cost = 0   and it earns 50 a month right now.

s19 pro out of pocket cost = 3800 if trump tax is applied .  and it earns 0 until May 30

Simply can't justify buying one  even from after market with gray trump tax deal lets say 3200 cost that way.

I still don't get it until may 30  my power deal is 50-50  so we net 100 a month against a 3200 cost.  I need 32 months to break even.

This gear is so over priced it is a joke.  Even with free power  you break even in 16 months.

That is calculated right now :).  If Bitcoin was high they would charge a lot more. If I remember the release of S17 was like in the 3500 and up.

Either way it is the best hardware out there, and Bitcoin will go very high this year, make no mistake about it. Sitting on a brand spanking new S19 is going to be epic when the earnings are upto 1 dollar a TH or more. :)

I ordered one in april of 2019  for under 2500.  the preorder of the s17 was around 3100.  I got the second order for 2500.

so if this is 2900 the second batch should drop.

There should be a climb in BTC price after the halving so, there should be profitability in the S19s.

https://i.imgur.com/Z8pAGlL.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/Z8pAGlL.jpg)

s19 pro is at 2920 from a reliable reseller  ships may 20

s17  is at 1054   ships now from same seller

106 th  for 2108  and a 40 day head start which is really a 70 day head start due to ½ ing

110 th for  2920  

It will be longer then a year for the s19 pro to catch the s17 53th model

What site is it? Can you PM'me please?

There is no mathematically or scientifically proven fact that bitcoin will climb after the halving, and nobody should enter the mining business with the assumption that bitcoin price will increase after the halving, if you can't survive a 50% drop in rewards without any price increase, or even worse a price drop then you shouldn't be mining.

If someone is 100% sure that price is going to the moon, they should simply buy the coin and hold it, it costs nothing to hold, easier to sell, no work is required, no risk of gears failure, house on fire and etc.

Shortly after this post we dropped from 7200 to 6900. ;D

Definitely seems like a hard sell at the moment. I’m usually all for ordering new hardware right away but this seems like a pretty clear case of waiting being the better option.

Just a little update for you guys...

Bitmain is still not shipping internationally (not sure if this stands for every country, but for Serbia, I haven't been able to order since beginning March if I remember correctly).

S19 and S19 Pro are still "Coming Soon" and have TBD prices which is not really good news...

HOWEVER, T17+ and S17+ prices have been lowered while shipping times remained same (21-30 April).

Prices without shipping are as following:
T17+: $762 (Previous price: $952)
S17+: $1320 (Previous price: $1636)

there was a miner a few weeks ago for $904 - was that the regular T17 or was it the T17+?

though at that current price for the T17+ and that it is shipping next week and is below the tariff limit is appealing to me.

That was
the t17+  it dropped from 904 to 762
the s17+  it dropped from 1630 to 1320

with shipping that 762 still comes out over $900 so they might still charge a tariff - depending on how they look at the value.

I am tempted to buy one just to see - if nothing else, it will replace the T17 40 th unit that I am raffling away

If we wait a little longer I imagine we might see a few more price drops. Some state side vendors, their prices are dropping too (possible old stock). Take a look at BlockForge as an example, but that tariff is unattractive. :o

blockforge always charges the tarriff.

sometimes bitmain does sometimes bitmain does not.

note 📝 not 100% sure the blockforge always charges the tarriff.

I thought the tariff was simple - over $800 charge - under $800 dont charge... I would think the only grey area would be if shipping is included in that calculation or just the price of the item. I have not read the tariff to know if it clarifies it or not. but it would be nice if it was very clear.

---

well bitmain finally put the prices up $2633 for the S19 pro and $1964 for the regular s19 - add in shipping and tariff and its around $3500 for pro and $2700 for regular.

Shipping in June.

I might be interested in another S17+ at that price.....  but is anything actually shipping out of China with this virus stuff?

Does anyone know what the points will be good for.  I have 43 points my guys in Clifton have 70 points Buysolar has 38 points.

It would be nice to know if they have any value.

where do you see points? Nvm I see them - says I have zero.

Says its based on orders after 10/29/19 - My last order was 10/13/2019 - so that is why I have zero.

By the time it arrives, no virus would ever survive.

This is a quote from one finding:


And we all know Bitmain products are not shipped and delivered in 72h...


Still no info sadly.

If you fear virus 🦠 do what i do now.

have ups/dhl drop it at my garage door.
bring it in
spray box leave it sit for 3 days.

walk out of garage wash my hands.

go back to package in three days.

well the pros are sold out already.

Which would mean that there is not a lot of countries that have disabled orders (like Serbia).

i wonder how many were sold, as this will lead to a diff increase, plus the people who switched from BCH BSV, which probably will switch back after BTC halves (or i hope)

based on the price it is starting to look like s17+ is a better option, that and the fact that i missed the selling  ;D.

BSV and BCH do not have a lot of hashrate. Even if everyone came to BTC, it wouldn't increase diff a lot. Also, S19/Pro are shipping in Jun, so we have almost 2 full months of mining before destroy us :D. But I think there is not a lot of S19's.

Nah, I'm not worried about the Virus. I'm still working in the public everyday. I was wondering if the shipping routes/product import supply lines have been interrupted or slowed heavily because of the virus.

 :-\


You are welcome for the hint  :D

Jokes aside, no go for me with these prices and the halving is due in less than a month



I am having some issues with these guys, honestly, they don't seem to be reliable AT ALL, looks like they are just S17 pro overclocked to their max or more of the same chips on the same hash board, I have two of these at the moment, one had an issue with the control board and I had to replace it, now the other one is having PSU issues, so in a nutshell, these have 100% failure based on my experience and luck, as for the T17+ a few people whom I know including philipma1957 reported issues with them too, so long stories short; stay away from anything (+)

The S17 Pro,  T17e, T17 are doing well so far.

Honestly, I am starting to think that I should switch to MicroBt, I don't trust Bitmain's quality anymore and I am almost certain these S19s will be even less reliable.

I'm experiencing the exact opposite.  My two S17+'s have been running flawlessly since day one. Excellent temps and fan speeds.  My one S17e has had a few hiccups here n there, dropping a board, dropping offline a few times.

buysolar is running a s17+ it is really good.

we have a t17+ in clifton farm it sucks.

i would not mind ordering an s17+

we will be turning off 28 s9s that do about 315th.

if i order an s17+ and we bring up 2 s17+ that would be 140th to replace some of the 315th we are turning off.

we will be freeing 25-28kwatts

2 s17+ are only 6 kwatts.

it is tempting.

anyone have any coupons?

i would also consider getting more T17+ i would hate to see them end up doing only two boards.

they are pretty cheap.

i wonder if i pull the dead board and run with a psu and a controller if it works.

I think you mean T71e and not S17e? Well, Luck plays a huge factor in this, we don't have enough samples yet to conclude the results, for example, I have had enough samples of S9k to be sure that they suck, certainly not enough of anything of the new models, but for 2 out of 2 S17+ I personally take it as a bad sign and I will not be ordering them again, the T17e is not my favorite either, simply due to the power it uses, my favorite by far is S17 pro then comes T17.




That's 50/50, not a very encouraging result on your end either if they list S17 pro for $1000 that might be something.  :-\

Maybe I get a t17+ it is cheap.

762 is pretty good.

the s19 and the s19,pro are back on sale.

You should really consider the shipping duration given the pandemic and its effects, local shipments that used to happen on the same day or in 3-4 days now takes a week and more to be delivered, and if things don't get much better - products coming in from China could be stuck in the way for a very long time, this indeed differs from one location to another, but make sure you call and ask.

Same here. My S17+ was running mid December @76.5TH/s and now since yesterday it is running 91.5TH/s w/o any problems.

It might be just my bad luck with S17+, or it is just a matter of different batches, again everyone is free to buy whatever they want, by the way how are the temps doing with 91th, are you using Asic.to?

Another thing I noticed with the S17+'s vs my S17e or S17pro..... the S17+'s boot up way faster than the S17e or S17pro.   

If I do a reboot, or point to a different pool, the S17+'s are back up in like 2-3 minutes, whereas the S17e and S17pro can take 7-8min

Not sure about 91TH profile, I ran it for few hours and didn't like it's usage as it was preset. I went to manual OC and did 94TH/s @3750W and max temp on middle board (but only on one temp node) was 85-87C while ambient is between 20-25C. Other hashboards were sitting between 70C and 80C.


Same here, S17+ boots as fast as Z11 but S17Pro and S17e boot same as S9 (takes hell of a lot of time).

From my perspective, you are correct. Bitmain's overall 7nm units are far from robust or reliable. I have had the best luck with Pro's but they still exhibit a 15% attrition rate on my racks. 15 out of 100 have lost boards, burnt PSU's. Out of 200 S17's we are experiencing 20-25% attrition with many lost boards and plenty of burnt PSU's. We are finding that the " High Temp Solder" on the boards is NOT performing at the temps that specs would suggest. Heat Syncs are coming loose and falling off along with failing solder connections. I believe you are wise to observe that Bitmain's QA/QC has taken a drastic turn for the worse. I am committed to avoiding ALL new Bitmain Products and focus on Micro BT. The final nail in th coffin for Bitmain was their clsing of thr CA repair center. So even warranty work incurs a very expensive shipment to China for repairs.

It's really nice to hear from someone who owns what I consider to be a good sample size, and since the attrition of 15% on the S17s pros and 20-25 on the S17s it's safe to assume the average is 20%, and honestly, I am quite sure it would have been worse if you got anything else aside from the pro version.

The one thing I would like to add which I have missed in my previous comment is the fact that it's really not just the 7nm technology that is making Bitmain's gears quality look like shit, it has to be something else, I am saying this because even the new S9 models which are built on 16nm are way far from robust when you compare them to the previous models, this has to be something with their quality control, maybe some very essential engineers left Bitmain, maybe they are desperately trying to reduce the cost, I don't know what caused them to start making shity gears like this but I know that the S19s will most likely be less robust, or at best case scenario - they will be as reliable as the S17s.

You got a good point, but at this price premium of S19s, I'd expect them to be a bit more robust and better in overall quality. But we will see in May/June how that turns out...

S19 and S19 Pro are again up for sale on international website.

Price:
S19 - $1964
S19 Pro - $2633

Delivery date:
1-31 July

yea I noticed that late last night but the tariff and the halving make those very unappealing, to me at least.

I guess that Bitmain thinks they'll get orders even though the price is high, especially in the situation after the halving.

It's crazy that they can do close to as they please with the prices and there still will be people buying hw.

They are far too highly priced.

Lets project coins at 12000   after ½ ing.

that would be 6000 now.

You don't get the gear until July 10.

if diff stays at current level and coins are 12000.

On july the unit earns 110 x 0.0904 =  just about 10 dollars a day  it burns 75-80 k-watts 2.40 at 3 cent power.

10 - 2.40 = 7.60 profit  3cent   you pay 2800 if tax is zero  368 day to break even  from July 10 which is July          13 2021
10 - 3.20 = 6.80 profit  4cent   you pay 2800 if tax is zero  411 day to break even    "     "      "     "      "  August     25 2021
10 - 4.80 = 5.20 profit  5cent   you pay 2800 if tax is zero  538 day to break even   "     "      "     "      "   December 20 2021

this is with fully flat diff and a 12,000 coin price Just don't buy the gear.

note with free power 280 days and no import tax is April 23 2021.

Bitmain released S17e for sale again, but removed S19 Pro for now and S19 Pro is back for sale at price of $2633 and shipping date of 1-31 July 2020 (everything same as before).

S19 PRO 110 TH/S is now for delivery for August. still @ $2633 per unit.

S19 95 TH/S as well, priced at $1964.

This is either a tactic to sell the S17 or they are really selling well their stock.

Knowing Bitmain for only a few years ( overall positive experience ) but also from reading from here, I personally believe this is just a tactic to sell the old gear.

If you want to buy NOW and wait till August be aware Bitmain will have sales until then ( Flash sales ) and others will order and get exact gear as yours earlier ( this mostly from personal experience.

Check the website more often as things always change. My 2 cents that no one asked for ;D


EDIT:

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=000202005141802135128Tsh82210619 - S19 PRO back on stock

Hashrate: 110TH/s

Shipping date: 1-31, Aug. 2020

$2493.00

also, anyone has one? was curious how the fans act on it, both the unit and the psu

The ssh of the S19 Pro is activated by default - does anyone have the credentials?
The previous default from the s9 (user:root, pw:admin) doesn't work.

Would be great to have ssh access to my miner or to at least be sure no one else can access my miner^^

Please try yo change your "general" password !

on all bitmain device original password is :

User : root
Pass : root
Pass ssh : admin

if you change the password to "TESTING" ssh password change , so :

User : root
pass : TESTING
pss ssh : TESTING

leave me your comment ;)

@thierry

Thanks for the fast reply. I did not change the password.
I am talking about the Antminer S19 Pro - can you confirm that root:admin should work for ssh?
I am well aware that this was the default pass for previous models, but for this model this doesn't work.
Was trying to bruteforce the pw with nmap and the famous rockyou.txt pw list - no success

Changing the password still doesn't let you ssh in. I think they might have SSH enabled but configured so only a certain account can login, not root or admin.

Also for those interested, there is no Low Power mining mode on these like the S17-Pro

Just Standard and Sleep mode.

That may change with FW updates but currently its stuck at one speed.

On the flip side the interface is prettier if not better than the old one.

How do you know that SSH is enabled on the S19 pro? What I heard is that S19 comes with no SSH, not even ssh daemon, which makes sense because it's unlikely that Bitmain will enable SSH again after all these years of disabling it by default while adding more security to prevent replacing the firmware as well as altering the miner's frequency and voltage.

If you are 100% sure that SSH is enabled, I could contact a few people to try and get you the password, please do let me know how did you reach to this conclusion:

I can confirm that it is enabled. No idea about the S19 but the S19-Pro I have definitely responds to a SSH connection asking for a login and password.

Got a physical machine in front of me. Port 22 is open and accepting ssh connections. Unfortunately I can not successfully authenticate, since I neither have the credentials nor the correct ssh key to do so.

Antminers T19, S19 and S19 Pro seem to be "back in stock" as Bitmain is currently selling ONLY them as "FUTURES ORDERS" (̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶s ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶d̶r̶o̶p̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶f̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶s̶h̶i̶p̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶B̶T̶C̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶p̶o̶n̶s̶)̶.

Not sure when they came back in stock (but I would assume it is Friday night as I usually check Bitmain website every morning) or if you can order one (as Serbia is currently DELETED from supported list I cannot order).

I've written multiple tickets to bring back Serbia to supported list but nothing has changed since March and I never got an answer why they deleted it.

I think it happened today (Saturday), do you mind quoting the part where it says they will pay you the price difference if the miner price drops? are you sure this applies to all future orders including these once?

As for the shipping restrictions, you can use some package forwarders, like Aramex, they give you a virtual address in China/Hong Kong and you can ship the miner to that address and then ask them to forward it to your country.

Anyway, I would advise against buying these gears, it says 1-31 Jan 2021, that's 3 months of uncertainty and almost no guarantee that you will get it on time given how Bitmain delivery has been recently, but of course, that is just me.

My partner ordered the s19pro today.

I may order 1 t19 pro.

They haven't said it specifically and I just assumed that based on their previous naming schemes. I have corrected my post.

What % cut do those forwarders take? And do you know of any reputable ones other than Aramex?

As far as I know, if they don't specifically mention it then you will get no refund if the price of the miner drops.

They are the only the once I know, but if you google a bit you might find others that operate from China to Serbia, as for Aramex, they charge you per weight regardless of what is inside the package, you can use their shipping calculator and simply copy the dimensions and weight of the miner you want to buy from Bitmain.

I'm thinking of buying an S19 95 or a MicroBT M30S 90.

what are your experiences with the S19 models? Are you more reliable than the S17 series?

None of us have owned s19 long enough to know.

You probably need to have someone buy it for you from a nearby country and send it to you.
Pm me I could probably help

What Phil said makes sense, but if we compare them to the 17 series then they are indeed more reliable, I remember people were reporting dead hash boards a few weeks after they received those S17 and T17s, so if you only want to know if the 19 series is better than the 17 then the short answer is YES, however, words like "more reliable and better" are subjective, the 17 series were so bad that you can compare them to any other gears and safely assume the former will lose.

Have you bought one to tell us your opinion? I'm waiting for mine to arrive soon!

my one s19pro is due  Jan 1- Jan 31 2021

I can talk about my 17 series gear.

s17pros 15 all good pushing over a year on all of them
s17s       3  2 good and  1 dead psu on the other which   I literally replaced it 20 minutes ago
t17s       3 all good

so above I am 21 all working 1 year or more with 1 replaced psu.

now I have 2 psi's on order for a freaking month and have zero spare psu's for the gear above.

t17e 2 they suck
t17+ 2 they suck   I finally was able to get every board to work using aftermarket firm ware and down clocking

1 s17+ good.

now above are 26 pieces of gear. that are all more then 1 year old they all work.  So for me the 17 series was good.  the rthen the troubled two t 17e and two t17+

I am afraid that vitamin won't deliver my power supplies for the 17's as I think the psu's will start to die now.

Would I buy used s17 pro's over new s19pro's  yes I would as long as the seller is good.
In fact I tried to buy 10 s17 pros right on this website

you can see me talks with sell here.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5274863.0

I would have purchased them all but he did not like my terms.

So personally in my small sample of s17 pros and zero sample of s19 pros.

I would prefer the s17 pros at 835 usd each over the s19 pros at 2400 usd + tax

Sorry I haven't bought any of these 19 series and most likely won't be buying any for years to come, but what I know from people who I trust and who have these 19 series as well as the 17 series miners and all of them with no exceptions vouched for the 19 series over the 17 series, since these gears are still new nobody has enough data points to compare it against S9 or M21s for an example, it's easy to compare them to the 17 series because most people weren't as lucky as phill, gears were breaking after a very short period of mining, these S19s aren't doing that (YET), when something is extremely terrible it's very easy to compare it against anything else.

My concern is that the first a few batches of the S19/T19 are good and then the newer batches will not be as good, but I am known to be "paranoid" and Bitmain became my nightmare after having lost thousands of dollars on their mining gears, so my view could be biased.

You are not paranoid. Bitmain's hardware is garbage. The S-17 series has literally destroyed miners and their businesses. They did nothing to support this garbage hardware. Now the S-19 has a solid Heat Sync on the chip side but still radiator style on back. Half fixed the engineering disaster of the S-17's. Bitmain needs to be taken down. They are greedy ruthless pigs. Stick with Micro BT. They are amazing on all fronts. Quality, efficiency and these beasts run like S-9's. Amazing units.

my micro bit has been meh.
my avalon has been meh
my innosilcion has been meh

my bitmain s17 t17 s17 pro s17+ really good.
my t17+
my t17e. so so.

we are on to next gen.
all of which worry me.

the s19 pro is a 3300 watt unit.
the microbit are 3300 watt units.

not a fan of that much power draw.

I can add a lot more gear. I have the power. I dont have confidence in the sellers.

This new gen gear locks you into specific power supplies. I dont like that.

Running 50 M30s 72 TH. 4 Months now. They run at 74TH and the Watts are lower than specs claimed. Like BM USED TO DO. Not only are they bomb proof, the FW is intuitive. If the machine senses too much heat, it will down tune itself. Then once the Temp returns to normal, it again adjusts back. Current gen Whatsminer's are unparalleled. If you're a commercial miner, you owe it to yourself to scrap Bitmain and go MicroBT current HW.

I can't vouch for M30S although I only heard good stuff about them I know that M21s is a BEAST, the only 17 series gear which I was kind of lucky with was the S17 pro, Phill was one of the few lucky guys who were not screwed by the 17 series, for most of us, it's hard to believe that anyone else could have had a good experience with the 17 series, in fact, if I didn't trust Phil I would think he is simply shilling those terrible gears, but I know he is telling the truth and I know he was just lucky and I am happy for him.

My experience with S9k, S9e, and all of the S17 series makes me hesitate to buy these new S19/S19 pro, I have always been a Bitmain fan, but when I tried MicroBT I knew bitmain was a joke, of course, with an exception of S9j, S9i, and S9.

All true my friend. I also had "better" luck with the 50TH Pro's but still pretty bad. 35% failure rates across my S17's. I only ran earlier iteration S9's and they were bomb proof for me. Less than 5% failure rate for years and even then BM stood behind them. Whole different BM now. BTW Micro BT is started and run by an ex-BM Engineer I believe.

These 10 are the warehouse owners we put them in around November 2019 some do normal some do turbo if you look closely you can see they earned 2.2btc  since we installed them last year

counting coupons these are paid off as they cost about 17,000 usd and 2.2 btc = more then 23,000 usd

https://i.imgur.com/YqRQ7GF.png (https://i.imgur.com/YqRQ7GF.png) https://i.imgur.com/k0xEGpn.png (https://i.imgur.com/k0xEGpn.png)

Phil, that proof was really unnecessary, I know you are honest and you wouldn't lie about it, perhaps I failed to explain to myself, and just so that we don't go off-topic, I sent you a PM explaining what I meant.


30% and higher failure rates are very, very, very common with the S17 series, mine is well over 40%.  :'(. the worst ones are the E and + versions, the T17 is half as bad, the S17 Pro is kind of good.

Anyway, I won't be buying any of these S19 gears, but I hope that they are robust enough and those who buy them can actually mine with them for at least a year or two before starting to see dead hashboards or toasted PSUs.

No worries internet always sound too formal it is hard to show you are laughing or not angry.

2x t17e = not good for me. rescueed the 2 units with down clocked after market
2x t17+ = not good for me. Rescued the 2 units with down clocked after market

3x t17 = good zero issues
3 s17 = 1 dead psu fixed it yesterday 2 good.
15 s17pro = all good. normal some turbo some.

So 25 units all still working 1 repair part  quite good.

actually better then anything I owned since the bitmain s-3 which were the best gear built by bitmain for uptime.

To put it in perspective. Bitmain wrote apologies for the 17 series and here I am with an almost perfect record for the gear. It is funny.  I am also grateful.

For those who are interested, bitmain just restock their miners.

https://i.imgur.com/jUQQCb3.png (https://i.imgur.com/jUQQCb3.png)

S19 pro = $3359
S19     = $2612
T19     = $2003

Shipping date, 1-31 July 2021, so you will probably get them by med august 2021 (if everything goes fine).

What's everybody's take on these prices for a gear that will get delivered after 8 months from now? ::)

Oh I just unlocked the wallet and sent them all my btc.

 Not!

On a more serious note 📝 we are still waiting on the first s19pro we ordered.

Why should we buy more?

even though I am down some hash 1.25+.5=1.75 ph vs the 2.0 we had.

 it earns more than it has in a while.

I also grabbed a lot of gpu hash and if I am picky I can get it cheap with good warranty.

I even have a return window it the gpu phase crashes I have until Jan31 to return gear.

I wont be buying any gear from bitmain for a long time.

7-8 month or more lead time? Bitmain is insane... http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/crazy-sign-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

Granted I have not bought any BM gear for several years now (s9 batch-25 is the last I bought) but even if I did still use them, no frickin' way would I buy with 8mo (or more) leadtime!
In the words of Nancy Regan - just say NO!

The lead time is so long that it probably makes more sense to buy Avalon 1246, which is in the same power efficiency area as T19.

Or MicroBT hardware, if it has reasonable lead time via some distributor.. (their own web shop shows all sold out).

I don't think the math works for me to be buying.

We have a s19 pro due in 30 days. I will post how it runs.

This era is reminding me of 2016-2017.

Everything was going up and it became easier to get gpus.

Not that I advocate gpu to shit coin to btc. But today right now I am pushed in that direction.

To me I am Always looking at:

debt
cash
coin
asics
gpus

diff
price
profit per algo.

I then juggle all of the above.

I would love to buy some bitmain gear,but  7 month lead time for gear is almost never good.


I could justify getting a unit from bitmain on the books for 2020.
For the following reasons

USA tax law allows me to have ending inventory subtracted from profits of selling gear.

I still sell a lot of gear and have been consistently do my returns to reflect my gear sales.

So ordering a s19pro from bitmain counts as ending inventory since I paid in 2020.

So it is essentially a 3500 tax deduction.

I can buy the btc from coinbase. So it is not btc out of pocket it is cash out of pocket.

It would mean a certain 1200 savings in tax for this year.

So it lower risk of buying a s19pro.

But I could also order 6x 3060ti units for Jan 15 delivery at the same cost.

 same tax break and gear is on hand in under a month vs over six months.

I mention all this due to the past 2016-2017 time frame.

I will make a decision to buy a s19pro or 6 x. 3060tis this week.

To all buying a s19 pro may be okay if you report taxes. It can make your choice easier to do.

Bitmain website just updated next available delivery dates to August.
Id love to grab one, but I don't like the idea of paying now, and waiting 8 months for delivery.
(Although I could reduce my 2020 tax liability by buying now)

I am considering getting a few.

Or some more gear before New Years eve.

it so stupid that they are pushing to August for buyers like us, yet there are companies getting deals for thousands of miners and Bitmain has no issue filling those orders.... or is that why the normal buyer has to wait so long?

even though I have purchased more than 150k in gear from them I am a nobody to them.

I have three choices wait til aug for two or three s19s
Buy some shit gear but for bitcoin  on ebay get it in under 10 days.

Or buy new gear other then asics mine and convert.

I have 300kwatts to burn and I burn only 110 of them.

I just set up Five non asics put into my friends office.

I will setup 2 non asics put them in the solar array.

and possibly use nine non asics ordered from alibaba.

I need to spend 5k on gear from now till dec 31 for tax purposes.

you can always buy and send me gear Phil lol :) j/k but yes I know what you mean. I need to spend some as well and while I can afford to, it seems a waste and pointless to do so with the calculated ROI being nothing ever on current prices and difficulty with the expectation that difficulty will increase/

I don’t like being pushed into one style of gear ⚙️ is it  an asic or non asic.

The choices are pretty stark.

sadly it is going heavily to the side of industrial mining and not just small time industrial but huge big time industrial shit.

Yeah we could swing an ant box with 15ph and we would be done with our power.

Across the street in the second smaller building we could do 200 gpus.

At that point we would be done.

Sad that 15ph for btc and 18gh for eth is going to be too small.

In a year or 2 we simply may not have any gear to buy for our 400-500 kwatts

(max numbers for us)

---

I am getting older (64 this Jan)
I am not sure I want to build out a 5 megawatt solar build (if investors help with cash).

I can still put in 5 to 6 hours of hard work per day in the mine but after that I get tired.

Covid did not help me much with that. Wife is still doing lung scans almost 12 months since she went to the hospital with it.  She is better, but not there yet.

I spent a lot of time away from mining and working to improve her health.

I may call it quits for growth in 2021 or 2022.

Everyone prefers bulk sales, no?

Riot Blockchain alone has 8000 S19pro in orders which bitmain has to deliver by April of 2021, they agreed on 2000 miner monthly, and the whole world seems to be facing chips shorage, so even if Bimain worked twice as hard, I don't think they will be able to manufacture any more gears that what they already need to send out, so after all, maybe paying for a gear that is planned to be delivered 8 months laters isn't going to be a terrible idea when it's already August 2021 and we are looking back into the past, with that being said, I will NEVER order a gear with that amount of time I have to wait.

anyone notice that bitmain is only taking USD wires for their new miners?
That sucks, paying with BTC was nice.

What has changed? strange enough, I wanted to try if I could pay with BTC so I created a dummy order, and to my surprise, I get an error message that says:


Seems like they blocked my account or something, since it's unlikely that I will ever buy from them again, it doesn't really matter.

Sorry I couldn't confirm the payment methods because that error shows up before the payment page.

I went ahead and signed in, put an s19 in my cart.  Went to proceed to check out and it said order placed, continue to payment.  Then the only option available was instructions to wire USD.  No btc payment option.  What sense does that make?  Can't pay with btc to buy product from btc mining company? I thought that was a highlight of btc.  Being able to transfer money around the world in a few minutes.

Yeah well.

At least they didn't try to make folks use BCH again...

Shipping cost for one miner was a bit mental, but yes USD transfer only

$220 USD to ship to the states was most recent. I think Bitmains UPS rate is broken again, posting about +$1.7k charge  .. .. .

Yes UPS was mental, price was ok if 2 or more ordered but something wrong with it if only ordering one.

Wonder why they stopped accepting BTC

Here is an update, since my post on Dec 18 prices have increased quite a bit

S19 pro = $3769
S19     = $2767
T19     = $2118

https://i.imgur.com/GjFt6lz.png (https://i.imgur.com/GjFt6lz.png)

And the best part is, they are SOLD OUT, it mentions that the shipping date is 1-31 August, I am sure it will be late August, maybe 1-3 days before the month ends, so these buyers will be getting their gears in September at best case scenario, if this isn't a bad deal, I don't know what is, but let's wait for 8 months and see how does this buy turn out to be.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/chip-foundries%3A-the-top-of-the-crypto-mining-food-chain-2020-12-07
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-chip-shortage-packaging-issues
and https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20210105PD205.html

Seem like convincing explanations for the longer than usual delays in shipping. Even larger buyers (https://blog.bitmain.com/en/marathon-patent-group-purchases-additional-70000-19-series-miners-from-bitmain/) are going to be waiting up to 12 months for their orders.

Well they do some mining. So they want cash to pay bills while they hold the btc from mining.

Pretty safe hedge.

@ malevolent

I am going to read the articles thanks.

First 2 were good. Third one I need to subscribe.

I wonder if we really cant get much gear for the whole year.

I actually like it if true.

And as price increases the more important is it going to be that miners don't sell too much or they will depress the price. I bet neither would TSMC be keen on accepting bitcoins in lieu of fiat for their chips.


Most of their articles are paid (and not cheap) but someone often archives them anyway.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210105101623/https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20210105PD205.html

January batch of S19-Pro is shipping

Might be some difficulty hikes coming.

Yep we got our one s19pro yesterday.

it is physically a much larger unit than the s17.

taller wider deeper.

new gui.

Yes have had one since July, not sure as to its physical dimensions as its hosted remotely, but the GUI cool.

Anyone have any guesstimates about when the s19 (non pro) January batch will ship?

Today? Tomorrow? Next 5 days?

The Jan s19pros shipped days ago no reason s19 won't ship in the next week.

---

I just picked up my two January batch S19 (non pros) yesterday and they've been hashing at 95.7 and 95.7 TH/s for the past 20 hours. The units are noticeably quieter than the T17+ that died on me last month. Otherwise, the major thing to note is that they use Bitmain's new GUI, as posted in philipma1957's s19pro review.

I don't have a watt-meter or too many sophisticated tools to perform an in depth review but I'm happy to answer any specific question, if any.

Bitmain just announced on twitter they will be opening sales at 1500 on 2/25 (GMT+8) for an S19j.   90th @ 3100w = 34.5 j/th.

No price indicated yet, or if they'll accept btc for payment.

And that's 2am tonight EST.

I suspect they collected all the imperfect chips previously set aside, not good enough for the s19 or s19pro......and threw them in a box to sell as the s19j.....to salvage income from the imperfect parts.  (Reminds me of packaging burnt potato chips or pretzel pieces and selling them as a unique product).

I will not be partaking in this model.  I just sold some coin over the weekend and bought my wife a 2019 MB GLC AMG 43.

If anyone manages to catch the price and ship date, please share.

A freaking rocket ship. Nice.

I may buy a s19j.

 I'm working the overnight shift. I'll post when I see something.

2hrs ago, they said on Twitter, a ship date of OCTOBER.
https://twitter.com/antminer_main/status/1364787555317649414?s=21

Edit to add... as of 0830 est, I never saw it go online

Did these ever come up for sale? The Bitmain webpage still shows only the sold-out August batch. I'm interested in seeing what price they are asking for a miner you won't see for 7 months. And do they require you to pay 100% upfront?


I think how they have done this in the past is at the hashboard level. Probably just too costly to try to characterize each chip individually. They test every hashboard individually at a series of different voltage/frequency settings and then combine "compatible" ones to get Pro/non-Pro, or different hashrates. For instance, the S17 and S17 pro hashboards are identical and use the exact same ASIC chip. For the S17+ hashboards I've seen they even have a label on the hashboard indicating what test level it passed at, L1 through L7. This is why aftermarket firmware can get such great results, they tune at the chip level instead of the board level.

There is always a range with these things due to process variation at the fab. Intel does the same with it's CPUs, the 2Ghz and 3Ghz models are exactly the same chip, one just hit the top of the curve and the other the bottom. So not really a quality issue, more just process drift and transistors that switch just slightly slower and/or less efficiently.

I think it's ridicculous that they even keep the web shop open because nowadays they don't have anything for sale most of the time, and when they do, the lead time is like 1/2 years.

They should just shut down the web shop.

They never went on sale. Never got listed on the website. Just the two tweets saying they would.  I was curious of what price they would be listing at.

And you are correct, board level testing seems more likely.  I just have this image in my head of some employee sweeping up reject chips from the factory floor into a dust pan and asking the boss what do do with them. And the boss says, " save them, we'll put them in the next batch and name that run something different".

Some bitmain employee named nathaniel posted about these on the bitmain telegram channel https://t.me/bitmain
apparently these are $5k a piece and they were sold over email with an MOQ for 200 units.

Looks like another batch dropping tonight... 1AM EST. The press release says to email, so looks like it will be the same as last batch that never showed up on the website.

https://blog.bitmain.com/en/the-second-batch-of-antminer-s19j-will-officially-go-on-sale-on-march-02/

https://i.imgur.com/BAMzBTf.png (https://i.imgur.com/BAMzBTf.png)

For October ffs

Hi!

I saw the blog post that indicated order by email. After satisfying their authentication requirements, has anybody actually successfully ordered their S19j?

Thanks!

Last batch had a MOQ of 200 units, so its probably only scalpers buying.

You can see all the resellers currently selling $4K miners for $10-12K

Bitmain reduced the price of Antminer devices by 20% amid the fall in the bitcoin exchange rate and criticism of mining by the Chinese authorities, and due to the fact that some Bitmain customers demanded a refund of the prepayment for the equipment. I wonder how the prices of resellers will change.

Global Suspension Announcement of Antminer Spot Sales

https://blog.bitmain.com/en/global-suspension-announcement-of-antminer-spot-sales/

Looks like a long hot summer.
With lower difficulty staying under 20t easily.

once the current drop happens to 15.9 regrowth will be very slow until the fall.

So I will earn more coins this summer.
Just not sure if the coins will stay over 30k.

I very much doubt it will stay low for very long.
Miners are being moved, not thrown away.
And since this thread is about the S19, I'm certain none of them will be thrown away for quite some time.
Even with all this happening, the BTC price is still well above last year and well above the ATH from before last year.
(also this belongs in Mining speculation)

1 speed you said? Not anymore :)

https://images2.imgbox.com/95/1e/GkCkxwX2_o.png (https://imgbox.com/GkCkxwX2)

(Screenshot taken from S19 pro running Braiins OS+)

Bitmain will release the Antminer S19XP model based on 5 nm chips from TSMC. The new generation of devices will provide a hashrate of 150 TH/s with consumption of 3225W and energy efficiency of 21.5 J/TH, the start of deliveries is expected from July to September 2022.

lol - July to September next year, someone clearly needed some marketing news.

I wonder which it is:
1) blatant marketing and nothing more
2) they'll be mining with them for a year before selling them to everyone else
3) TSMC told them to fuck off and wait til late next year before they'll do any wafers for them

So ... we guessing Oct/Nov so about a year from now? :)

It sure is a long lead time to Q3/Q4 2022..
They opened the future order sales https://mobile.twitter.com/Antminer_main/status/1458496251062730753

Bitmain has introduced a new model of a miner with a liquid cooling system Antminer S19 Pro+ Hyd as the manufacturer reports, its stated hashrate should be 198 TH/s with a consumption of 5445 Watts, the price is not called, shipment is planned for the period from May to September 2022. https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020220105112318868myo6YbOL06D3

Yikes... needs 415V 3 phase and water supply, dry-cooler, or cooling tower. Seems like the infrastructure would cost just about the same as immersion but no ability to go back to air cooling for resale.