Bitcoin Forum

Live games are really entertaining, is like watching TV while we pace bets. But they are not probably fair, and there are a lot of videos on youtube that show how the rolls are manipulated. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu7400hUA3A)

I know they run under a gambling license, but we don't know how rigged the machines are, even the Dice rolls for the Monopoly board could be a replay of a video and not a live roll.

That's why I start this topic, I want to know if the people of the community trust in those games.

Usually these live games are audited by a third party company, so the reliability of these games is directly related to who the auditors are, as they have a reputation to uphold, and reputation is the most valuable asset for these auditing companies.

But directly answering your question: NO, I don't trust and I don't like to bet on these games.

For me it's all about the results. If I got really drawn to these games, I'd keep playing regardless of trust that I have towards the people who run these or audit them. You can always test these by playing with small money and stick with it if it keeps going your way. From my experience most people choose the games they like and the games they have results in before they do their research about the site that runs them and all other small details. That's why lottery tickets are so popular despite very low chance to win and the government taxing the shit out of big winners.

OP they are two players in the live casino industry which is the gaming and live room providers. The game providers control the game how it should be played and the live room owners take care of the gaming environments you enjoy on screen including the croupiers. What you need to check before patronizing any live casino is the Gaming providers because they are in-charge of the outcome. If you confirm through live casino review sites that they offer Provably fair then you can stake and enjoy your views of pretty women. In some games like live Baccarat; numerous users can share one table without them knowing. The live room owners cannot manipulate results, they are there to provide the live room.

You are the only ones who could make out such impression whether its a real one or not and if you do find out that it is something interesting and doesnt mind about fairness then
this wouldnt really be bothering you but i couldnt really blame out people who do have this kind of impression for them not to be fair.If they are reputable then expect that theres
someone behind who do really trying out to cover up their shadiness for it not to be bust up and keep people believing that they are dealing with some fair game.

Well, I guess it depends on what live games I'm watching? I've never had much experience with it though, I've only joined like two or three, watched a few without joining, and that's about it. I've never really questioned most of what I experienced (probably cause I couldn't give a single damn about trying to find out whether it's rigged or not), but no, not really. It's also the main reason why I don't play them that much, it looks way too suspicious at times and you can't really do anything even if you complain about it.

A good topic for me.

However, I don't know or am aware of the "fair" side of those games. The trust might be subjective but I don't really play on those games due to the fact that I don't think they are really live. I'd rather bet on slots regardless of their respective RTPs or go all-in to sports betting which I found more interesting and my chances of winning are somehow great.

I also questioned the fairness of these games. I can't imagine that somewhere part in the world, there's really a live studio hosting these games. Even it was a part of the popular gambling site, I don't trust these games even for a purpose of entertainment.

Not just Monopoly or games similar to it but for other live casinos as well.

Live Casinos is not in my vocabulary to play with.

That was a tough question if it's about putting our trust. I rarely bet on that type of game but I do before. I even think it was fair since even it's pre-recorded or I don't know the term to call it if I bet it right, I will win. But too much for speculation now as my conclusion now is, I won't play on those games from now.

Not saying I don't trust them but not comfortable risking money at live games.

I don't put my hand into the fire for this kind of game, but I see they are really popular. In my country there are similar games of this kind, part of an important national TV channel's grade which gives lots of prizes weekly to people who purchase the tickets and sign a monthly "membership". And that is true there is no way to know for sure if the results are legit, especially because it's part of a TV show, but people really don't seem to care about it. They still put their money on this kind of thing, although we know cryptocurrency casinos are much more trustful and accurated on its results.

It really doesn't make sense why these gamblers don't adopt cryptocurrency to ensure they will be putting their money into provably fair games.

Knowing they're in operation for quite some time I think they can be somewhat trusted but on the other hand, it'd be interesting to see someone try and record these live sessions and see the actual numbers.

I enjoy playing live casino games but not these two I always prefer card games since the experience is slightly enjoyable and sometimes engaging compared to the regular card games plus they have different variants of the game.

It is true that they wouldn't last on how many years of existing if there would be some discrepancy about those live bets been made or the games that they've been running.
Its impossible that gamblers wouldnt really able to spot out if they were shady or not fair on the first place but who knows if those things are really indeed rigging those games?
No one could prove out though thats why we do only speculate out that they are doing this but we couldnt really point out fingers if there would be no solid evidence.

All types of gambling games are aggressive, sometimes you can get lucky and sometimes you can disappear that's gambling, if you talk about trust, of course for me the answer is no.

For that this is where the question arises 'what is your goal in gambling' my answer is for fun, no matter slot games, Monopoly, Roulette, Back, Sports and so on.

You are talking about a direct Monopoly game, of course the game is a bit of fun with a paid offer of x $ $ if you are lucky, whose name is a game of course there is a loss and a win, Honestly if I want to have fun in Monopoly games, I never place a lot of bets, the minimum I take, for example as below.
https://zizihub.com/3db726.jpg

One, two, three X rounds unlucky I go, if lucky I try a few times, it's my pleasure.

I am not sure if they are provably fair, as that is gambling and we know that everything can happen in the middle of the games. But if even they are not provably fair, that will not be a problem for me since I do not spend too much money to gamble. But I still prefer to play as usual but maybe I will play live games. I do not play gambling too much and do not intend to play gambling, whether playing live games or other gambling games. But that case can be our lesson to knowing how to manage our money so if they really trick their user by not provably fair, our losses are not too big.

Entertainment is to each of their own, I mean what's the point of individuality when you're not allowed to like what you want right, I do like live card games too. I think that we should look for reviews of these companies to make sure that they can be trusted, it's not everytime that we should trust the longevity of a company or a website, everyone can get worse overtime.

There's no solid evidence that they are using brakes to pick the number of their choice, but it's speculated that they are using a brake or magnet to pick the number that they want to win, the Youtube videos that you posted is not a piece of solid evidence but I don't trust this kind of game because there's no way we can guaranty that there are not using these devices unless we have one regulatory representative presence but even if there is one, there's a possibility that it can be manipulated.

I haven't tried the monopoly game but it looks same as live roulette ,can't guarantee it's fair or not because I wasn't there in ,just relying on the internet and platforms ! honestly don't believe it (in my heart) but it's a little fun if win ,even though there are many chances of losing because could be braked using a magnet or something "I'm in neutral on trust"

Not going to lie, when I initially read the title, I thought someone actually incorporated the Monopoly game into gambling, which would have definitely piqued my interest, as I quite like a game of Monopoly from time to time.

Yeah, having a gambling license or being a registered company doesn't automatically mean they're trustworthy or legitimate in how they deploy their games. The only way that's acceptable is being provably fair, and any gambling website worth their weight, will spend the extra money in implementing this, because they know they'll get extra customers from it, as well as solidify their reputation.

Any game which is online, and doesn't have a clear logic behind the house edge or fairness, should be provably fair. I'm personally not into slots, and mini games like this, as I prefer sports betting, but I would absolutely not use anything that doesn't prove that behind the scenes nothing untoward is going on.

Gambling license usually do on audit even on there live videos. Audit will surely determine if they are using a replay video since live video is there main product and watching it is the only way to audit it.  There's no point for them to rig the game since the chance of hitting huge win numbers and special games is very low versus the amount of choices player can bet. Probability wise will always be in favor to the house so why they will risk there license to operate for rigging a game that they have an advantage to the player.

I understand your approach to live casinos and your doubts. However, if you do not believe these games are fair, on what basis do you believe any other casino games are fair?
I also understand that there can always be doubts, but if a casino is licensed and is checked by external audits, the risk of cheating is extremely small.

But this manipulations could be frustrating atimes regardless if one considers this most casinos would lose clients. playing regardless of trust just keeps one going afterall gambling generally involves risk so keeping the risk minimal is just one approach to stay far from been heart broken

Risk is a fundamental thing related to gambling. Of course, it is best to try to reduce the risk as much as possible, but we simply cannot check many things and, unfortunately, we often have to rely on the opinions of others. In this case, the best source of opinion may be an external audit and I am afraid that better verification will not be found.

There's a difference between a unknown risk, and a known risk. For example, if you bet on a sports team to win a match, you know there's three different outcomes, they win, they draw or they lose. There aren't any other outcomes, and you know this as a matter of fact.

However, as you suggested blindly trusting companies because there is a element of risk to gambling, unknown risks fall into the category of not knowing whether something is legit or not. This, when it can be proven isn't acceptable. Every gambling company that could implement a provably fair system, should. End of argument, since this should be factored into their costs when opening that game. Therefore, this should be done for every new instance of a game. In fact, I think the gambling commissions should be taking a look at this, and only approving licenses if every game they offer that should, and could be provably fair. I'd say it's in their best interests to vet services for provably fair systems.

So, while you're partially correct that there's an element of risk associated with gambling, hence the definition of gambling, these two examples given aren't the same risk. One is acceptable, and the other isn't or at the very least shouldn't be.

I guess I saw the wheels turning on Freebitco.in ;D

I don't trust the game 100% because the game could manipulate. But if you just want to have fun, you can try it because that game looks like a very interesting game to play. I still prefer to play the usual gambling games and although the games can also be rigged, I don't care because I just want to have fun and don't expect too much from gambling games.

Maybe some people are really lucky to get the jackpot from that game but I don't know. It's better to play your usual game so that you can enjoy it more than thinking about how to get a lot of money from gambling games.

That's what I mean, and I would like to share another example of unacceptable risk.

Here is a video about a mistake they made and how people lose their money by a fail on their dice machine.


The users get the resolution after 20 minutes: 'The game has been canceled. Please wait for the next game.'


At that moment some users stop betting, but the next roll was another '4 Rolls' with a huge win of x152. It was a great win but that doesn't change the fact that the previous bet was canceled and a lot of people lost their profit.

Source: https://youtu.be/EQIez6Pogac?t=130

I know monopoly is well known game and i think this is where the monopoly gambling came from but I don't know about crazy time. It can be popular on some other countries but not on my place since I don't see this in my local channels. People play the game because they are popular and the issuer of the game and the casino where it runs is also trusted, that is why they do not doubt of its reputation.

I do not questions these type of games because they are simply not my taste to play but I am more into the classic games e.g dice, bj, but not their live versions. You cannot force them to adopt crypto because what if they do not know how to use it?

I have the same feelings about these games and therefore I have never played them. But logically, if these games were dishonest, then sooner or later their organizers would be caught on something (or there would be a leak of information about how everything really works) and the organizers of such games would lose their reputation. But I don't think I've heard of any such investigations or scandals.

No one yet surfaces out of dismay for losing thousands in the game. The monopoly game I use to play was is a board game, not this kind. But yes if it has auditors I guess they all could conspire players in thier favor by rigging the devices.

Hard to prove fairness, I even suspect the live cam casinos are arranging those decks of cards already before they distribute to the players. I don't buy it when there is no cheating. The house will hate the game if that is the case.

I'm also like you, I'm not so sure about the 'fair' of live games, that's why I never want to try to play in this kind of game

I am more confident and comfortable with sports betting, casino or crash games

There was no better way to explain it!  8)
Of course, this is a very big difference and in my opinion it should also be regulated top-down so that institutions which issue licenses, give them only to casinos that have provably fair games. Only in this way we would be sure that the risk is only related to our decision, and not something that cannot really be checked.

I can't watch the video currently, but without even looking I can almost guarantee they've got it written into their terms, and conditions that they aren't liable for loss of funds through unintentional bugs. That's usually the norm with reputable companies, let alone this one. I wouldn't use it, and I'd recommend others not to either.

In fact, I bet they don't even have the rights to be using the brand Monopoly.

If I have to ask you, do you believe those live casinos are really live like they are really doing it somewhere in a live studio with updated feeds?

It's different to the usual casino games like slots, roulettes, and dice that's why your question seems not relevant.

Anyways, since we have different views, what we left here is just speculating things. My stand won't change, however.

At the end of the day, it boils down to the player himself if he wants to play or not, for entertainment or for other reasons. We may never know the ultimate truth about their fairness, but if you are a player who wants to enjoy the game, you are just trusting the casino is a fair one. If you are in doubt and has hesitations, you can always opt to other games that you prefer the most.

Let's say that was pre-recorded, still, gamblers just have to place their bets. In the event they picked it right, then there's no question. I also don't think that was a dishonest part since everyone is guessing. It's just that it wasn't live which should be not a big deal as in the first place, it's still a game of luck.

However, as I mentioned, I rarely play these games so I can't share any good experiences.

It will now end up on a gambler's choice if they really love playing those games or not regardless of the concerns about live casinos.

When we've got more number of trusted gambling platforms with number of casino games and sports betting access, what's the need for risking our money on such games where the legitimacy isn't known. Atleast with the gambling platforms it is possible to check the fair functioning. With those games what the outcome is the result, and it can't be cross checked. Even the trusted platforms fail at times, so better is to avoid these kind of games.

Since trusting them is a question, we just have to trust ourselves with our choices.

It's clear that there are lots of gamblers who patronized live casinos and there are also gamblers who are not.

If we are getting good profits or our winning success rate is high playing at live casinos like on the game stated by OP, then it's nothing wrong to continue playing on those live games.

First of all, there's no concrete evidence that everything is manipulated.

I don't think that way because what if the gamblers really won by selecting the pre-result exactly. Even before, there are issues about live casinos being live but there are gamblers who are actually profiting on those. If not, we shouldn't see live casinos now at every gambling site.

Generally, it means the market here was big and there are lots of money flowing on these games.

reminds me of the online bingo in the Philippines which the numbers are air-mix drawn. it's sort of fair when it's done that way but some are still suspecting the weight of the tennis balls. which in this monopoly game are they suspecting to be unfair?

The game seems interesting and exciting since we are only waiting for the wheel to spin and give the result. Some television shows have this game and often make people who interact with the game get their heart beat faster because they expect to get the big prize or hit the jackpot. But if that is about manipulating the wheel, that will be back to a personal opinion because some people will not care about that while others believe that they are not manipulating it.

If they rigged the machine, how do we know for sure? So it is better to enjoy the game and see how good our luck and who knows, we can win some prizes. No need to think about many things that we do not know.

The games give the House an obvious advantage over the players, because they have the odds in their favor. Crazy Time Odds =
38.88% chance of stopping on 1 (21 segments) 24.07% chance of stopping on 2 (13 segments) 12.96% chance of stopping on 5 (7 segments) = Source https://casinogrounds.com/casino-games/crazy-time/

You can actually track the history of the bets here ==> https://casinoscores.com/crazy-time/ and get expected frequencies for numbers to be spun.

The old saying is... "The House always Win" and that is why they use the odds to their benefit, when they design these games.  ;) 

Exactly, This is what I believe too, Why they bother to rig the games while they always have the upper hand when we do the match for probability. They have maximum bet allowed so it means they have totally in control to the max profit that user can earn, Human error will increase overtime so the house will always win at the end if the player keeps betting due to enjoyment they can get on potential massive prize that they can get. I'm playing crazy time before and I won many times with massive multiplier but due to my greediness, I always ended up losing because I only bet on x10, x5 and the 4 special games leaving x1 and x2 empty which the usual winning number. :D

Maximum bet allowed? That means they allow any bet without limit? They are not scared because they know that they have more chance of winning than the player because the house edge is high but to some casinos they do not allow it. They have set their own max bet limit if how much a player can bet maybe because they have a lower house edge and they are scared that any player can bet a really huge amount and that can bust them if ever the player are lucky.

In any games or in any gambling, they always have an advantage over the player because that is how gambling works, no wonder why they are a booming industry.

In order to constantly (on average) win casinos do not need to cheat - mathematics works in their favor. I think it's much more profitable to do business honestly than to risk being discovered and losing all business (due to punishment and loss of reputation). By the way, the honesty of the casino can be checked not only by the honesty of video broadcasts, but also by mathematical statistics - if the casino is cheating, then the analysis will show it.

You are right, the House always wins, and that is because there is a House Edge, we can calculate that house edge for any game with the odds and the multipliers. In other words, how much does the casino win in the long run. If you are playing a dice game with a house edge of 1% and you are betting to 50% chance to win, in the long run you will win 50% of your bets, but for a 98% profit on each one, that way the house always wins.

Now, getting back to Crazy Time, wasn't easy to find the house edge, but it's between 3.92% and 5.67%, which is really high for a game. https://smartcasinoguide.com/crazy-time-casino-game/ But this doesn't mean the users never win. The variance is the biggest enemy for the house edge.

There's no really guarantee that these games are under provably fair. Theres a chance that the video you see on the screen is recorded beforehand. It's really hard to tell because nowadays, technology is at its peak and anyone can do almost everything possible with the help of technology and applications. But if someone here is interested in these kinds of games, then I suggest that you check the provider they are under to. If that provider happens to be reputable and trusted one, then you could take your shot to bet, but still do it at your own risk. If you don't want to be paranoid and be in constant doubt that you are being cheated on by the house, then just drop and let it go. Peace of mind is still of importance after all. You could still find other things that could give you the same satisfaction with live betting. If you insist, just always be on your guard and just bet what you can manage to lose without a heavy heart.

One cannot see and cannot control the live games the way a normal game night have been written in software and therefore at the end of the day I do think the question should be more focused on if you would trust the site that you are playing the game on. There are so many sites out there which have reputation on boards and therefore it's way easy to loose those things than actually go forth and do something stupid, I myself do not like playing live games because of the possible result manipulation but if there is someone who is very interested in those then they should actually choose sites which are good and reputable and not randomly playing on them anywhere.

...and good!! that they are "live" does not indicate anything that goes beyond the traditional the house always wins, here the seed is the look at the beginning and the look at the end, literally.

The fact that for example you are in a live casino does not indicate anything, there is always manipulation even in P2P, marked cards, so the decks are not changed in the required time, a dealer who sees a frequent player and how he leaves good tips , there are preferences and depending on the game this adds up, but at the end of the result an unsuspecting player only sees the initial bet and the result of it.

Crypto online games with  provably fair, have made the "most reliable" casino online from that basic perspective, to make a bet and see the result.

Anyway people keep betting, the reason, the result is what matters and they trust that because there are people who are always winning.

Crazy time and Monopoly are quite visually entertaining games and combine that "magic" of digital and live gaming, because many associated digital visual events take place; In any case, all casinos have the same live games (or not)  all that remains is to have fun and hope if "seeing" the final result supports you in winning.

It's best if you consider these as somewhat similar to a roulette board, they will be carefully engineered to mathematically give the house an advantage and probably build in a pretty solid margin of safety for the casino. Nobody can really tell what is going on behind the scenes even though the selling point is the fact it is a "live" game, that gives an illusion of safety - but as you say there are many ways that they can and most likely are rigged. There could be weights placed or activated strategically if the house is not winning and it could all be automated, even the person attending the wheel may have no idea - they are only there to act as entertainment and talk.

This is important information, I have never gambled in a game like that but I always assumed that they were kind of niche games that were not really popular, to think that there are certain countries in which they are so popular is incredible, after all monopoly is probably one of the most common board games around the world to the point a great deal of people probably have it at their homes right now, so I do not see why people are attracted to it when they can play the game at home for free.

This is the main point. Maybe some people feel that the game is rigged when they get continuous loses but they cant prove it. Even if the game is provably fair, there are still many people think that the game is rigged when they get busted. I've played CrazyTime once, tried it several rounds but I cant enjoy the game.

If you search on youtube.

There has been some technical issues on their game and exposed how the game is rigged, is being runner by motor. The issue is keep spinning never stop on anything, so is actually can be controlled.
---
Fun fact about these, even we all know they are rigged, people still play the game ~XD they want chasing season while the casino on section gives the player win ~XD.

I've never played these games so I don't fully understand the mechanics. Tell me, is the broadcast of the rotation of the wheel going to all players or is it an individual game? It seems to me that this should be for everyone, since it is unprofitable to organize a game for one gambler. And this means that the honesty of the rotation can be checked by looking at the process from different accounts.

Two thigns here.

This its completely true. The maths are facts.

But the case its the OP started the thread because asides of the maths they can be manipulated the game for a lot more return.
My response its totally yes. I think they have all the data to see and calculated in the moment if they win or lose so much money and regulated.

For the license, that its for me a joke, do you really think a country like Malta, Curacao etc. Really have people controling the license owners? Its simple they are small states and they grab the money and say yes.

Besides that if one license really control a gameprovider when they go for a research they simply show in that moment the normal game working (with the normal maths said above in the first point). And when this people gone put again his "tricks".

I know a lot of you maybe say to me "no man this cant be done" but im from a country wheres this happen, when the auditors arrives, shows the cleans one and not the real.

^ Definitely right, they had auditors but when there is no one of auditors personal it can be controlled by them of which they wanted to have a result that has a small bet. Anything that does not have able to verify the game fairness should not be trusted, a machine that can be controlled or any spinning whales that possible can be controlled should always not be trusted.
But there are some gamblers who still trust this kind of game, probably they enjoyed on the game not exactly it will work.

License is nothing mate ~XD.

Yes, Indeed even the game is being rigged people still playing. The reason is simple, because the game can be controlled they can manage how much money player losing with the total payout/days. So, they just can make the game have more lose comparing the payout they're made.

Now, the player just need to pray or get lucky moment they are playing during the section provider give the player winning with a good payout.

At least that was done in real LIVE as I believe they are syncing properly with their followers. It means they can also read the updated feeds and even respond to their viewers. It's different to live casinos where there's no interaction of the host to their followers if a live chat is there.


Yes, that's the only way if the gambler can hit that win at the same time it was drawn.

There are gamblers who seem to enjoy that game that's why it was widely being played.

When the fairness of the results become questionable the direct answer to such game should be no. But in reality players are trusting the sites which provides live room so they go for bets means they also have its place in the gambling world so it all depends on the players experience, if they are winning they won't blame anything or else they will move out of it just like any other gambling sites.

If there's solid evidence that this game can be rigged then gamblers will not trust this game and will just be here out of curiosity or just want to have fun, but so far there are none and people still enjoy this because there is an excitement in playing a live game, it's like watching two fairly even fighters and the game is very even going through the last round, there is a big excitement especially when you have a big bet.

Do you actually think the wheel are motorized? I think the wheel spins free.. but they have some kind of precision braking system that can brake the wheel to determine the outcome of the bet. (electromagnets)

I also feel the person spinning the wheel are not in control of that braking system, but rather that it is being controlled by some kind of sophisticated computer that are doing this remotely. (A number are punched in when they want a specific number to drop and then the computerized braking system, will stop on that number)  This is also not done on every bet, but rather when large bets are placed.

The Croupier does not even know about this system, because they are low paid employees and they will reveal the secrets, if they know about it.  ???

I don't trust such games either and I think that the probability of players being cheated is quite high. Of course I have no reliable proof of these words, but in my opinion it is very similar to the TV show "shopping on TV" in which people thanks to advertising and supposedly huge discounts buy cheap and unnecessary things at triple the price.

I don't know for sure because it could have been manipulated by the casino secretly and it's likely that they will give people wins so they will keep playing and in the end, they will lose.
I saw in the video that person was lucky to win some money from that game.
I just hope that the gambler can quit that game and get his money before he suffers a loss.
If he could stop in time, maybe he could enjoy his victory.

So far on the poll, people here do not trust this game

Yes   - 4 (28.6%)
No   - 10 (71.4%)
Total Voters: 14

I also voted no the house has a big chance to win the game and he can easily manipulate the game by using devices, honestly, I have not played this kind of game because the chances are in favor of the house based on a calculation I prefer playing in a game where I can check the fairness of the game.

It's hard to trust such live casinos because we don't know what's happening in the backend.
We can never tell how corrupt the people can be. May be the casinos would have paid enough to the authorities to let them manipulate the rolls.
This is why I prefer online gambling which has a provably fair system so that everyone can verify that their rolls are in fact genuine.

Motor, brake, electromagnetic what every you are calling.

In youtube already have some video, the wheels is not stopped and keep spinning. It's already one of the proof that can be easy to manipulated, and yes the person who spins the wheel does not control the outcome.

There has some other person/team behind the monitor who controls the outcome ~XD

I agree that could be people behind it that can control the wheel the person that spin the wheel cannot do that but he must make it appear that the spin and the results are natural, I trust dice or crash game that this Monopoly game, I have this feeling that everything is staged so they can make it appear natural to avoid the misconception that it's rigged.

We have also a problem between gamblers. Why? Because all the people who are gamblers and say "I only gamble for fun" so this people doesnt care if they lose or they win (i really dont think in the end they doesnt care), and made a endorsement to the casinos.

If all the people really cares about that the control made for the players itself was more more big, but between the addicts and the peoples i called before its really dificult because the wheel keep spining.

OT
And in other things man if you play for fun, a advice i give to you, STOP LIE TO YOURSELF. IF you want fun why dont play without money? Why dont play games with other peoples? why dont play serious games?.

Why all this complexity and such risk (at least a few people know about this fraud and can turn everyone in to the police) if the mathematical model of the game allows the casino to always win without any fraud? I don't believe in people's honesty, but if it's profitable to be honest, then the vast majority of people will be honest. Like the casino in this case.

- Jurisdiction
- Cost money
- You don't know about the provider.

Other reasons, but most of them are because of this issue why people don't want to report the case of manipulation games. Also, license provider who provider for the gambling is not doing anything.

They just only release the online license, take money and that's it.

Yes.
The vast mayority of frauds on the internet made worldwide are for little money (up to 2500 or 5000 usd). Why? Because a lawyer and open a real investigation cost you too much money than this. And yo dont know if can be resolve and take a lot of years for nothing.
Im not only talking about betting games. Pishing scams etc.
Like this Scam i show up to show, enjoy this video its really amazing. Look how a Hacker catch the scammers (i know its near OT but its fantastic).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUNRzYJcyr8

I think the same, the number of ways in which a game can be rigged are basically infinite so live casinos despite how attractive they could be to some people are simply too risky, people can cheat right in front of your eyes and unless they tell you it is impossible to catch them, can you imagine how easy it is to do this when you are not even present in the same room and you are only watching a video? So a game like this is not something in which I am interested at all.

I personally don't think so.

You could make the argument that they are regulated, sure, but in reality a lot of casinos which are regulated end up being rogue.

I don't trust anything that is not 100% provably fair. So even if that means a bit less entertainment, I'm willing to cop that.

For the sake of love, please point me to a game in casino that is favouring the players. I bet you cant because the RTP will always be lower than 100% theoretically. Its about time for people to realize that gambling site is a business designed to favour the site and not the players


Of course it is 'manipulated' in some ways to balance out the RTP otherwise the game might ended up to keep on paying because some of the game host could be getting pretty lucky with their spins or could be secretly trying to make the players win by trying to manipulate the wheel with their spins which is why the wheel is 'controlled' to avoid those thing to happen but as long as it stays on average of the advertised RTP of the game then it is not really a manipulation though

If take that from RTP situation. ~XD

But people thinking the wheels is naturally spinning energy without a machine or brake, well can't talk to much anymore about these. People already know is manipulated, do everyone who playing wheels game from Evoluation is legit. ;D

The only things people do is, praying they are play at the time casino give some win to player side during they're playing. ;D I also one of the stupid person, I know is manipulated but still playing the game ~XD

My highest multiplier only 100x in Pachinko Games.

We couldnt really trust it up 100% even if they would try to show about fairness or something that prove out that it isnt staged but we couldnt be sure on whats happening behind the camera

this is why i dont really blame out people on having some doubts.Is there something that we can do? Lets just embrace the reality and for those people who dont
like this way then there are lots of options that they could choose in the market.

Until now, there's no one could able to prove it out and thats the reason why they are still on business,right?

I think in most cases they manipulate the game and they will choose if who will make them win based on the players bet or that player has a special connection with them. There are live games like this before. They do that so that they wont lose or they only lose lesser than if they will run the game fairly.

Even though they are not fair, they are doing their best to make game the look like it was fair but i think some people already know their secret because they are also leaked videos on the web where you can see their tactics. Good point of the op for bringing this up, this can be a warning to other gamblers that are new to this and are on their way to try the game.

While people are trying to prove it, the casino will still profit from the players. People who try to prove it will find it difficult because the casino can hide cheating. We can just try to enjoy the game while we still want to keep playing and try to stop as soon as possible before things change drastically. Maybe we can win in one or two rounds, but there is no guarantee we will still win in the next round. So, believe it or not, it will come back to each person.

I did not understand how at least one of the points answers my question. Mathematics works the same in any jurisdiction, and if it makes a profit, then why cheat? Similarly with the remaining two points - why complicate the scheme if the casino wins anyway? This happens regardless of the value of money and whether the game provider is used or not.

I couldn't trust this game either and the scary part is, it could easily be manipulated. People are now being too skeptical and most of us know what to trust and what to avoid. I would still prefer traditional yet trusted games though there's nothing wrong in trying new games. It's just that the fairness of the game is important.

As I expected, most gamblers do not trust this kind of games and this is not surprising because the algorithm of such a wheel is impossible to check and it carries additional risks for the player. In addition, the leading that spins the wheel must be paid and the payment comes out of the players' pockets. That is why the chances that you will lose are always higher.

Getting reviews of a casino is a good way to get a basic judgement of casino but we cannot determine if it will remain the same in future.
Things are different if the casino has a long term good reputation, in that case we can have good trust on them.
But if a casino has good reviews only for the short term then it still comes under the risky category.
We have seen cases where scamsters initially build trust by giving good services and then scam their users out of nowhere.

Yes   - 5 (26.3%)
No   - 14 (73.7%)
Total Voters: 19

The number of comments is more than the votes and the current result is slightly different from yours. I voted NO, the game looks like a dummy and unserious, I wouldn't trust this kind of game with my money.



Reviews are mostly not the best approach to lean on a betting platform, I have seen people here get paid for reviews and since money may be involved, they will likely ignore the bad sides of the casino and make a positive review to attract more people, it happens by most YouTubers when they do reviews for these casinos, instead of making it looks neutral, they instead do it with hope to bring more customers.

I am pleasantly surprised by this as well, I know there are some people out there that like these kind of games, but at least in this market unlike with what happens with fiat we do not really trust the other party and instead we like to verify the results that we are given, casinos with a good reputation have gained said reputation by offering their customers the best service possible, and in this we can include a way to verify your bets, something that is not possible with live games.

This is true, some of the promotion is with fake bets, a good example of this is the user Xposed who have a deal with a casino and he always shows some crazy max wins.

In the next video, we see how he ben $438 on x1600,  the profit should be $700800 but he gets $500,438. I guess half a million is the max win.

https://youtu.be/D4ZaPDdVV2I?t=628

For me, I see this game of Monopoly and CrazyTime as the possibility of winning at slots, normally I have come across this type of game a few times, but evaluating it for months, a game project was going to launch it as an NFT game, I don't know if it was patented under the same scheme as the traditional game or not, but when we evaluate that the slots have the Provably Fair system and this one doesn't, by manipulating the seed I don't know if it could worsen the configuration to win or maybe they integrate it with a different type of system like that of traditional casinos that applied to roulette.

Even if that's the case, I think there will still be cheating, I think, but of course in a more subtle way because this kind of thing carries a greater risk, I think, compared to other gambling, even though this is live, but in some cases there is cheating there.
I did what you did because I also don't really like this game and even only tried this game a few times because I think the losses will be more than the advantages when playing there

If you think like that, then fine but don't consider it as the real thing happening in most of the cases. We are just all speculating and guessing here if those live feeds are really live. These gambling sites won't risk their reputation for that "cheating".

If you don't believe in those, a simple act of staying away is enough not to support those games.

Have fun at your preferred gambling type/s.

Ofcourse there are people who get paid to post good reviews which is exactly why we should not trust casinos which are relatively new in the short term.
We can put a little trust on those which are in the community for a long term since it is hard to pay for fake reviews on a long term.
Talking specifically about this forum, although there are campaigns for reviews about casinos there are many people who post honest reviews.
Whether it be good or bad they do post honest reviews but again the amount of such people are very low.

That was rather confusing but point is, cheating would still happen? Do you even know what auditors are lmao. They're usually the middle man in between providing fairness from the casino to the user, and them doing their jobs for these types of cases is very important. It wouldn't necessarily be the casino only that would be affected, but also the auditor that was responsible when the event happened. Wouldn't be impossible though for cheating to happen, not because it's "subtle" but rather both the auditor and the casino are in it.

Although we believe there is cheating in this game, we can't prove it easily because they will definitely cover up the cheating and still pretend that their system is fair. If that's the case, we don't have to try to play that gambling game because we have many other types of gambling games that we think are fair games so we think differently. Playing gambling really requires calm to be able to enjoy the game so if you keep thinking there is cheating in the game, you definitely won't be able to enjoy the game.

I tried these two games a few times... and I didn't win or lose anything big! But I saw some people betting crazy and winning insanely high prizes when they hit this special x2 x3 and x4 numbers... I didn't have the luck to hit that, to be honest, I didn't play it long enough probably! These kinds of games are not so interesting to me, I don't have the problems with trusting them, it's gambling, after all, we can win or lose any time, it's just that some other games are more attractive to me!

As long as it can't be proven that they are fair then we can't believe it spins and rollls like behind the scenes different from card games that can be seen in live
Some dubious things are, how the machine works and make sure it is without control provider never shows it. I have never seriously played this game only at the last balance when I'm going out of the casino.

Nothing compares to an online game where you have all the necessary tools to validate your bet and be sure that the result was fair. Obviously you will not check all the bets you place, but just by being able to do this at any time, you already have greater security, as the site does not know which bet you are going to validate, so they will be fair in all of them. .
In the case of CrazyTime and Monopoli, your only trust is in the company that is auditing the bets, you will never be able to prove the veracity of the bets yourself.

Yes, we either trust the provider or we don't! As a slot player I trust providers, why would I play them if I don't trust them!? You are right, there are provably fair games where you can check any bet with the validator, but slots, live games, poker are not games where you can do that... so you either trust the site and providers of those games and you play them, or you simply play in-house games where you have greater security! I know I play both...

Its fun to play since you watch the actual table but yeah, it can be edited or a replay but if there's an interaction between you and the other gamblers, the game might really on a live video which you can confirm but asking few things. .

Well, trusting is a big issue, this is why I only gamble on the top site and since I play not much on a live games, I'm still ok with them. Don't trust them fully, you still have not to be greedy and gamble only your extra money, this is still gambling and the house will always win.

You are absolutely right. Cryptocurrencies have made it possible for us not to use trust in third parties, but to be able to verify everything on our own. That's why most cryptocurrency users will not trust this kind of games. And since we can't check anything, the winnings we see could be cheating.

Whoever wants to play this kind of games has to understand at once that he will most probably lose all his money.

I know this and by this I don't mean to doubt the auditors on duty because of course they are neutral people but on the other hand this as I said before there are some casinos that can indeed think of a more subtle way and the possibility exists even if let's see now there are some that do have indications of cheating in the rotation maybe one example is the link that the OP gave.

I quite agree with what you say because the best choice is indeed when we are not sure why we are forced to play, we play for fun but that doesn't mean putting aside suspicion and when we are not really sure it certainly shouldn't be done.

On point. Regardless of it's really live or not, gambling is gambling. I don't even think that these games are actually live on not will increase the chance of winning. In case this was pre-recorded, which I doubt it is, the same sequence applies, a bettor will place a bet then hope they will hit that pre-recorded result.

The bottom line, it's safe to assume that everything is fair and square especially if the involved site is popular. I don't see why they should cheat in the first place as that will affect their reputation.

And just to be clear, it's the Game Provider that hosts these games, not the gambling site in general.

It's not that they don't trust those games but rather, those people do have a bad experience playing those games. They didn't realize that in whatever form of gambling, there's no such thing as easy money. The same goes on their result playing on luck-based games like dice, slots, roulettes.

If they think those games are not trusted, then better shift career at those gambling types where they can apply their skills.

Same here, I think they have their own understanding of what is Fair game concept. I don't trust and  will never play games based on nothing but some mathematical techniques. So, For me there is nothing about lucky, I don't even  know how their "mechanism works".

I definitely agree with your point.

The problem with live games is that they are prone to manipulation at some point and they are not probably fair. The developers have complete freedom to at least manipulate the odds in their favor, even if this is not likely the case. At this kind of gambling, what you are risking is the trust that you have over the online gambling website. But for the safest bet and odds, it is better to avoid or bet a minimum amount in case something happens.

If you dont care about those possible issues then go ahead and play with it because there are feelings which live games could really give out something unlike into those others thats why there are still people

who do still prefer on playing even with those trust issues if you couldnt bare it up then you  could always skip up and find out other things which you do much prefer and interest on.
We couldnt really conclude out if they arent fair since it wasnt proven out in the first place.

He may conclude out because its subjective but there will be problems when we are talking about  evidences to approve anything about this, which is of course objective.

Of course you would be needing this because pointing out fingers and accusing something which do really need out that sufficient proof so that they would really be facing up some charges but how you would do it?
You are trying out to go up against with a big business and just been said above that as long you could not really able to give out some solid proof then those things would remain as hunches and presumptions.
If you do have those kind of feelings then you could just simply ignore them out.

What makes you think that?

For example I have not played this kind of games because I think they are cheating and I do not need to have experience playing such games to understand it. And I'm sure there are a lot of people like that.

Any gambling in the long run leads to losing. And I have not only the understanding of it but quite a lot of personal experience but I still like to spend time playing poker or slots.

In such things yes you will need very solid prove to show that you have a good case against a business or any one. Making assumptions of manipulation or something really is not healthy. Before we do allege of something we don't have to assume that can give some charges against you. To assume is very dangerous until you have a prove.


This could be a good reason but don't expect that gambling games should be easy to win. We need the remainder that the owners come for business of profit like you also so no body want to just pay the other person that way. I look at gambling that way too.

Especially when you look at the various proofs that they are cheating - it becomes quite convincing in my opinion.

It might not happen much but the third party providers are definitely shady at best. There are so many clips of unnatural spins on crazy time that it drives me insane.

The physical manipulation aside, it is easy to manipulate the outcome of centralized games as well, so I would not put any trust in that either.

My trust percentage in this game is 30:70 I still give 30% confidence because sometimes this game still gives big wins but still not worth if we want to win big
because the chance to win big is low only happens at certain moments or when the players get bored with bad results then that's when the provider gives a big win, to increase the player's confidence.

There would be always a risks when you do tend to destroy the reputation of some businesses intentionally without having those solid proofs.If you have been doing this on real world then you're fucked up

when things goes against you in return because trying out to destroy someones reputation would really be needing that sufficient and solid proof but people are way too confident on doing this stuff on this

market because it is really hard for you to traced it up which it is really very common to have these kind of unsure or non verified claims.

Regardless if those games are manipulated or pre-recorded (as others say), gamblers will still play on it due to the fact that; a) they have a high winning chance playing there b) gamblers think they can ride on it c) just for entertainment and fun.

Trust is a big word. If you are playing those games at those reputable sites already, then assume that everything is fair.

That’s why you have to play on a better site, even if there’s a doubt just enjoy playing and look forward for your winnings. This is gambling after all, and the house will always win regardless of your strategy so don’t stress yourself and play the game that you love. Live games are fun to play, its just like you’re in a physical casinos that’s why many are playing those games.

Trust is indeed a big word on which as a user you would really be needing to trust up a particular platform on which you do make out some deposits and just part of self awareness and common sense you would choose up on whats the current best platform or site to have on which you do play specially with live games even though it isn't proven its provably fair but with having that current reputation that it
has then you would definitely say that you could trust this one out.

Based from the poll, gamblers here are not trusting this kind of live games. And yet, many gamblers are playing this game. So if you don't trust this game, why are you playing?  :P So yes, for me, if you have doubt about the provable fairness of the game, better choose a trustworthy casino. At least, they are tested with a lot of players and if they are running shady operations, it will be expose by users.

When you find something shady make a research and reveal it to the people. Through this thread more users who have used these kind of games now think of the past spending. It is a good work, and it is always good to move away from such platforms than spending.

We've got more number of trusted platforms with provably fair working. Even with those platforms there were bugs that doesn't work fair. Further after reporting this has been solved. So, having an error is different than the entire system being an error. With these games the entire system is an error.

With regards to live games, there's no way we can find out if it's real or not therefore even with how hard we put on research, we can't have a fair result.

More importantly, just have fun betting at those live games if it's on the reputable casinos since no way they will cheat on us as building a reputation takes years to progress.

I doubt they will cheat on us as it will result in bad reviews in return.

I am not surprised because we have motto "Don't Trust! Verify!"
How you could verify a game like this? Can you trust blindly an audit society and their work?
Personally I cannot trust and I will play just for fun (without expecting nothing back, I mean just for entertainment)

It is true that a casino with a good reputation is not going to take their chances to scam a player just to earn a few more dollars, however even in that instance I do not think I would feel comfortable playing a game like that because as it has been stated by other players there is no way to verify the results at all, and when this is the case there is no way to make sure that you are not being cheated, and in a market where people like to make this kind of verification from time to time just to have some peace of mind this is a huge flaw that cannot be tolerated.

There would be no bad news because those bets or games couldn't really be verified to be fair on the first place that's why its not surprising that we would able to make out conclusions that they are doing

fair business whether we could be sure on that or not.It isn't really been proven out but since they do have that kind of reputation and popularity then we could really tell on ourselves that they are running
on good terms.Yes, reputation couldn't be build on short term which means that they are really protecting this stuff since this is a long term business to have.

You can trust only if you can check the honesty, in this case it cannot be done, so the "do not trust" option is obvious to anyone who thinks logically. But given the reputation and other factors (lack of information about fraud), many people play it because they believe that the risk of dishonesty in this game is at an acceptable level.

I am quite sure that those that do not trust in these kind of games are not playing them either, only a small minority of people will decide to engage in a game they do not trust, this is similar to what we see with casinos in general, if a casino has a bad reputation in the forum and people know about it then the chances that they will actually play there are incredibly low, as they will not want to take such a risk when there are so many other casinos in which they can play and which are known to be trusted by the community.

I guess there is a difference between trust and willingness to play.

People are still quite willing to play these games despite knowing that it's not provably fair or whatnot, presumably because of the entertainment value.

And that is honestly fair enough. I sometimes play these games for fun too. But the problem lies with streamers promoting this game as the equivalent of provably fair and dropping thousands in a single bet which you should never do.

I agree.

Just because something is not provably fair wouldn't necessarily preclude me from playing the game for fun.

But I would certainly never put in more than say $50 in total every time I play this game. They could very easily discriminate against higher bets, whereas if the game was rigged, they are less likely to target smaller bets.

May be some prefer the fun part with some pretty small  losses. It's not even entertaining playing where another person (auditors) say it cools to use them since they have  checked them. It will come to a point when you would be mislead and regret following what the front runner was showing you.

I will choose sport virtual  games where the risk is high than follow this, it's my money and its going to be my rules and my way and let the players give me the outcome.

Its really an unfortunate question, but whether or not trusting any gambling service or website is wise can only be answered by looking at the distant and near past history. A lot of them always find legal ways to screw their trusting audience and players over. And sometimes and quite often, they even do so illegally. Having a gambling license does not make it impossible to commit crimes. And everything really should be taken with a grain or two of salt.

If I had to make a choice, I would go for Monopoly because it has a bigger name. But don't be fooled, even the biggest names screw people over while disregarding laws.

Correct.

This game is only entertaining to those who thinks gambling games are all the same, when it's not. Just like what you've said, this game is manipulated by a third party in which they are choosing small bets to win and collect the big bets by doing so, if I'm not mistaken. Once people know the true story behind such game, for sure they will never enjoy this live betting game and will always make extra effort to make a research first before betting on some games.

It's just fun to watch the outcome of these games, but no I don't trust nor plan to bet on these games. Even if someone regularly checks on the live roll's authenticity and veracity, they can be paid too, in order to rig the game. Though most auditors and verifiers of these games are reliable most of the time, you can never be sure if their participation on audits is already paid. Everything has a price. I'll stick to my casino games and sports betting, I guess.

I still prefer sports betting too because the chance of manipulation is very small. Betting is involving money and it is not encouraging if you know the outcome of your bet was manipulated, I rather to stick to the kind of games that I can go on research for myself and probably determine my decision on it. If I do a sports bet, I may also have the chance of watching it and see for myself whether the referee was partial or not.

Now that I think about it, monopoly is a registered trademark do you think they have the permission to use it ? After all I do not think the legal owners of the trademark would agree to do this, as their game is mostly for kids and young people and this could induce them to gamble, an activity which is for those that have reached adulthood, so when I think about the less incentive I have to play this game as if they can ignore the rights of the owners of the trademark then they could do the same to their players.

I agree – they are for fun, and casino is for gambling and there is no trust in Casino and gambling. It’s an easy money which comes with luck and in our culture it is a strong belief that easy come, easy go. But vigilance is the key – being a little bit extra vigilant wont hurt. I restrict myself to occasional betting on cricket matches.

Since they are a live game, I don't think the amount of your bet decides the result, but maybe the sum of all bets is part of the equation.

Each round tons of people bets on the same roll, and all of them will get the same result, that's why I don't think a single-player martingale would get rigged.

By the way, it would be interesting to know how much is at stake for the "average" rotation of the wheel. It would be useful to know both for those reasons that you said (to understand the size of a safe bet) and out of simple curiosity - it is interesting from what turnover the organization of such a game makes economic sense for the casino.