Bitcoin Forum

Update 4/2/2014:

After much deliberation our team has decided not to continue this project.
We'll put our support and energy in supporting and buying X11 coins as we believe this is the algorithm for 2014.

We wish Charlie, the team and the community all the best for LTC.

Best regards,

(no longer) the LTC to X11 hardfork team.


================================================================


We, a team of Litecoin supporters and developers, are not satisfied with the current development of LTC.
That's why we are working on a hardfork for Litecoin to make it ASIC resistant.

This way we like to keep it decentralized, so no large ASIC manufacturers like KnCMiner, Gridseed or Alpha-T can takeover the network when Scrypt ASICS come widely available.

To lower the footprint of LTC and retain GPU mineability, the algorithm of our choice is X11.

We would like to hear from the Litecoin community if other changes, like to the difficulty algorithm, are preferred too.

Please keep this a nice and open discussion, this topic will not be moderated as we think everyone has the right to free speech.

More to follow, so stay tuned.

The LTC X11 team.




http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/hardfork.png

Litecoin [LTC] hardfork to X11

hardfork at block: ~564,480

may be subject to change, not set in concrete




http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/vote.png

Voting topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=549592.0




http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/discussion.png

Discussion: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18122.0




http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/coblee_on_x11.png

Statement by Litecoin developer:
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0




http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/downloads.png

github: coming soon
Litecoin-QT for Windows: coming soon
Litecoin-QT for GNU/Linux: coming soon
Litecoin-QT for Mac OS X: coming soon
Litecoin for Android: coming soon
Litecoin for BlackBerry: coming soon




http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/litecoin_x11.png


http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/litecoin_change.png

Mod note: Since this is picking up outside press, I'm tagging this as unofficial to avoid confusion. -Maged

wtf? lol.. thats actually possible?? hard fork it when youre not the dev? ???

Yes it is.

copy DRK,this coin will certainly not succeed

“a hardfork for Litecoin”
What's the meaning

 very good, i like x11 algo very much .cooler than scrypt.ati-asic ..great!!!!

This has to be an early April Fool joke right?

It's not a new coin. It's the Litecoin blockchain moved to another algorithm at block 564,480.
Hence the word "hardfork".

If you succeed.. I might actually go back to mine ltc again.. lol... :)

Let us be clear, this is not a joke.

We are serious on securing the future of Litecoin.

We hope to convince the majority of the pools, exchanges, shops and most important the users to upgrade to our hardfork before block 546,480.
You will not lose coins.

People who have invested in scrypt ASICS may not support this hardfork, so we expect some resistance.

Love this  ;D

Just brilliant! and how can you not love cryptoworld?  :-* :o

No thanks.

decentralized = anti ASIC
ASIC gives the Hash to a few people only. The idea of LTC was anti ASIC.

So go for it

You are one of the authors of LTC?

So, how long before an ASIC for this fork?

We expect it will take at least 1,5-2 years before X11 ASICS will be distributed. This will give us enough room to change the algorithm again, acting with the knowledge we have at that time.
We don't claim it to be "ASIC proof" but "ASIC resistant".

fake news no proof .....

Hi, is there any Litecoin offical statement from litecoin develop group?

who is this we?

caant wait for dev to make a statement about this :D

Viva la revolution

We don't need the Litecoin developers.
We need the majority to support this to make this hardfork work.

The developer group doesn't have any power when the majority supports a hardfork.

Is this news true?

well i can see u guys really hate asic. :-\
wish u success

Do you think BTC or other coins should have a hardfork to save themself？

well possible .. but this could escalate quickly :D

Well that you certainly won't get so why waste your time?

We need support this!

You are not the majority, neither are we.
That's why we will be working on getting the support of the majority.

The blockcount of 564,480 may be too early, if needed we can postpone this to a higher blockcount.

Well, this is interesting news, if it can be done. I do think that the time is right, while scrypt asic is not yet widely spread.
Best of luck.

Damned good news for LTC!

I am all for it!

Ah, what a delicious provocation ! I love it.

Good luck getting enough people to accept the fork though. Do you really think all those people with ASICS or ordered ASICS are going to brick their investment ?

Instead, why not switch to an existing X11 coin ?

im all about x11 ;D

;D

So litecoin cloning darkcoin now?
piss off.

cooler than scrypt.ati-asic ;D agreed

what is this  , a new? ??? ???

caant wait for dev to make a statement about this Cheesy

Actually we hope to get the official developers for LTC to work together with us.
But we don't expect them to do so.

We won't need them to do this though. We need you.

So basically Hirocoin without all the extra features?

very nice

It's Litecoin using the same algorithm as DarkCoin and HiroCoin.

Litecoin used the scrypt algorithm from Tenebrix.
We see a huge growth of hashrate coming from scrypt ASICS.

We feel it's time to move LTC to another algorithm that makes it ASIC resistant and more decentralized.

Fixed for you.

I wish you luck (I'm not into LTC in any way presently) but it's going to be a struggle, most people are completely clueless. ASICs have been shipping for months and idiots are still releasing new scrypt coins... bigger idiots are buying ASICs thinking they'll make a killing - they had better make that killing in the next two months, tops...

I've been backing scrypt-n since I started mining a month ago, the writing was on the wall for scrypt then. Now mining some X11 coins too. Scrypt is history.

idiots.

and no x11 asics will come, no one is interested in investing millions in chip design for some halfbaked algo mashup.

It is actually your topic, "Scrypt mining is dead", that made us even more aware of the challenges LTC has to face in the forthcoming months.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529111

If this is true, I will support this all the way as I have no Asic scrypt miners ;D

Just like you did right? Do you see any irony in this or you have just pretty much decided to be a shameless prick around here?

WoW, It's a big idea.
A X11 algo's LTC will be ASIC resistant for a long time.
I think I will mine this.

Maybe we call it LTCX?  :D

Just do it!

Please vote:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=549592.0

So we need an successful 51% attack for the fork?

no
a 51% attack cannot change the algo.
its just a new coin with pre-initialized balances (eg premining ;)

People still think, they can beat ASICs with algorithm. Scrypt felt, Scrypt-n is next. It's just a matter of time and interest.
Why don't you hardfork to POS? Thats the only way to stop ASICs.

We need a majority of pools, exchanges and users to update their clients / daemons to the new hardfork.
The blockcount of 564,480 is not set in concrete and may be subject to changes until we have a large enough support base for the hardfork.

I think it is good to discuss this in detail and see if a significant enough portion of the community is interested.  I know I could personally get a fair share of miners to back this (fair share meaning not near enough to matter.)  At the same time companies that are invested in ASICS and people who have bought them are going to probably spend a fair deal of coin going as far as to pay off the development team not to alter it.

You say you want the developers help, but I see no mention of this on the litecoin talk forums?  There is a whole discussion about going to N-factor that has basically be let to die.

This is going to involve a great deal of community support and discussion.  You will need to be open to changing your initial ideas and finding some compromise. (Perhaps with enough discussion a compromise can be found that satisfies both GPU miners to keep it decentralized and ASIC miners to keep the network robust?  Honestly, this is going to require some time and work.)  As a result I find it foolish to declare a block to "fork" this.

I do believe if enough effort and conversation happens there can be enough improvement to the litecoins that maybe we can make this coin serious enough to be a BTC competitor; but someone is going to have to garner support and dedicate a ton of time.  And you are going to need some support from the development staff, even if you move forward without their blessing.

Either way, good to see a conversation started.  In my opinion this has a long ways to go before it will be a success.  We will see how much work you and the community are willing to put in to this.  If you are serious, you might want to kiss your life goodbye for a while :D ;)  Even if just from keeping the conversation going and promoting.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing your plans in more detail; and I strongly recommend that we look for some compromise between ASICs and decentralization if this is serious.

why litecoin, why not bitcoin?))

So it is an 51 % attack (kind of). If 51% of users take the new wallet and algo the others cant do anything about it?

just guessing: ltc still has more gpu power than asics.

51% attack cannot change the pow algo

How are you going to get it on the exchanges?

Why X11 and not something else like SHA-3 or SHA-512/Momentum/Primechain etc.?

Does "we" include any of the devs? If so,how many?

How is this fork going to maintain it's current value in the market?

I'm all for decentralization but do you have a fully-formed plan to fork (binaries,code) and more importantly,in the marketplace,what's the plan regarding exchanges and vendors? What's the map to ask the vendors to accept this?

No

Thanks for your reply.

We have thought about this.

Our group is small right now, 2 developers and 3 people (including myself) for PR and communication.

User Beeker is involved in this too and we use his account for the first weeks of communicating to the Bitcointalk community.
2 of us are well known hero members on Bitcointalk but won't yet disclose our identity until we think there's enough community support to get into the next phase of this project.

We understand the challenges ahead and we hope to get the main LTC team on our side, one they realize what LTC is facing.

To battle Bitcoin we need progressive thinking and a long-term vision for LTC.

Just my personal opinion:

I feel like this is just butthurt GPU miners being butthurt that Scrypt is slowly evolving to ASIC. I don't see the problem with it really to be honest:

- ASICs will provide a higher hashrate, thus it will improve on the security of the Litecoin system
- ASICs are cheaper then GPU's, not only in gear but also in terms of power and heat.
- LiteCoin will grow more professional by having a bigger hashrate, since it will be way less suspectable to 51% attacks. More trust from vendors etc.
- Scrypt ASICs have MANY other options to mine than just Litecoin, it is not like Bitcoin which is most of the times the most profitable to mine for SHA ASICs.

If you are really serious about your mining then start investing in the future and get an ASIC scrypt miner. It'll save you a bunch on your powerbills and thus (at the moment) make you more money. Throwing it on X11 would push the whole network to a way lower hashrate I expect, unless it's suddenly WAY more profitable to do. Also I don't expect the market to be particulary happy with this.

ASIC will get LTC away from the baby room to the adult room. ASICs make the coin stronger, not mining it with non specialized hardware. Question: Is a car produced with non-specialized hardware worth more?

I don't agree with this  guys.

When coin publish, it should be decentralized, out of anyone's control.

People will not lose coins, but the coins will be worth shit if the network forks. You are actually practicing a form of economic attack on LTC by spreading uncertainty over some kind of potential fork.

The right way to do it, is

a) to go through the official channels and ask for PoW change with a voting. If it's yes, the official coin will hardfork in a different PoW. If it's no, it's no.
or
b) to make a coin which suits you

Lol :D

But it may not be so bad. Saw some people discussing it on BTC-E (see chat archive) and Poloniex and price is going up a bit.

I do not see the point of doing that apart from throwing to the ground millions dollars of investments of ASCI companies and ASCI enthusiasts which buy them.
I think this will be very bad for LTC reputation and investors will go away.

ASCI is a natural step in a successful coin life and should be accepted. For me scrypt ASCI is innovation and innovation should not be killed.
There is already some interesting alternatives if you do not want to have an unfair mine-fight against ASCI (darkcoin, vertcoin, myriadcoin and many more) and you can always just sell them to LTC, if you are a long term LTC supporter.

May I know how can you do that?

A bunch of highschoolers.  They found a HOWTO x11.

There is literally no downside to switching to x11 algo, this would only be good for everyone's gpu's, atleast now coming summer. Wouldn't you want your gpu's to run 30 degrees colder yet still manage 3x faster speeds?

First time ive ever seen this, but still awesome! People can most certainly choose to vote with their hash power on which chain to continue.

Is there a mailing list I can join? Also, with out a substantial amount of hash to find blocks at the current difficulty how are you going to continue the chain?

We expect enough GPU miners to stay on Litecoin, the coin itself doesn't change, only the algorithm does.
We could calculate a drop in difficulty when the coin is hardforked, to anticipate the loss of hashingpower from existing scrypt ASICS but we doubt if it is needed.

A lot of GPU miners are moving over to X11 already.
Hirocoin and Darkcoin have a great future ahead.

Well the approach is different. Instead of just cloning litecoin like the many others you just try to steal the right to develop the coin. No wonder your an anonymous group.

Why not bring this to the actual Litecoin community on the LTC forums?  

without ASICs LTC will never get to the moon   >:(

There are ASICS for LTC and I don't yet see a moon.

Another option on the LTC forum was to fork LTC to Scrypt-N but it was never picked up by the developers.

X11 is even worse for litecoin then the scrypt asics.


1) its easy to "asic" it, it doesnt need alot of ram thus making the production cost of chips very low, i guess you can expect awesome speeds even with fpgas...
2) Its easy to cpu mine, makes litecoin very vulnerable to botnet attacks...
3) The only reason it uses only 60% of electricity compared to scrypt is, that the miner is totally unoptimized. The reason it uses so little electricity is simply that the cards aren't working at full power...

I really doubt you get the majority of miners to this, especially not without the ltc devs supporting that, a coin without good devs is a bad investment anyway.

PS: if something like that ever happens, it has to be a community effort including the original ltc devs and not from a bunch of anonymous guys...
Imho, the opportunity was missed todo that, it has been known that scrypt asics will hit the market for several months now, this had to be done before plenty of people preordered ASICs - but it wasnt.

don't get nervous,  asic came , bitcoin is still bitcoin . so do LTC.
i know your purpose , LOL.

Actually Hirocoin and Darkcoin both use X11.

The difference is mainly in the dynamic block reward. Hirocoin has a fixed block reward, while Darkcoin has a dynamic one. They both have some added features. Check out the Darkcoin and Hirocoin Ann :

Hirocoin : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516349.msg5981984#msg5981984
Darkcoin : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615

Start a new coin or mine darkcoin. You shouldn't hardfork litecoin just because GPU's will be less profitable from it.

I'm seeing no threat from mining companies to take over the network as there are a healthy amount of competitors in the market and the hardware is shipped to the users.

SHA256D mining (Bitcoin) on GPU also uses less power than scrypt.

Does that mean SHA mining for GPU is "unoptimized"?

The majority will decide.

who are you anyway?
who are in your team?
are you a developer? if so, have you or your team developed any coin?
you want to change, so why just copy&paste X11?
if you are really developers, so you can create a new algorithm or at least add some extra layer to X11
not just copying and pasting

sorry for saying this, but i think its not your specialty but if it is, you'll need litecointalk.org community support too, not just here

or maybe it's just April fool joke

steal the right ? it's open source :)
we could also fork bitcoin! its a free open source market.. no ?

anyway i suggest to the OP author to make your own coin..
many people (litecoin/bitcoin early adopters) spent a lot of money and probably litecoins to buy ASICs, won't be fair to hurt them

make your own coin or join a new coin with the POW algo. you like
there are a few new coins and algo. to choose from

+1

Also I think it is April's fools joke. Anyone could start topic. Perhaps I just started topic "BTC hardfork, no more ASICs, CPU only botnet proof" lol

yes but I am not trying to fork ltc and add a dodgy ass algo that botnets could easily have a field day with. you have a snow balls chance in hell to get the majority....just a few kids who have no idea and are running down the road screaming omg asics is coming  ::)

Discussiontopic on Litecointalk.org too:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18122.0

We didn't take AFD into account when we started talking about this topic.
This is not a joke, though we know we will have to proof that.
The project may take up to 6 months, or even longer.

If we feel we have enough support from the majority of the community, we will start to get more supporters onboard.

We love LTC and this development takeover is not hostile.

Gridseed is expensive, slow and uses a lot of power.
Attempting to change the Litecoin PoW is a bad idea - I'm guessing that not a lot of people will use your fork and that will mean there will be a lot of invalids between the official wallet and this wallet.

Warren is a legit programmer working with loads of individuals who are also professionals in their fields, bugs and errors will be more common in your software. By 6 months I've calculated the difficulty to be at above 52,000 (worked out with all current ASICs in the market). The Litecoin community is attempting to keep ASICs cheap and not cost $10,000 with a ROI of 2 days then after delivery of 5 months, making the ROI 18 months.

too bad was ninja launched with huge instamine, i bet my ass that the dev has million and he probably dumped a large portion already seeing how the price is dumped recently

i'm not against instamine if there is an ann and everyone can instamine, but a ninja launch with a bad launch time(was like 7am for hirocoin) plus instamine is simply a giant scam

Change to X11 ?
I don't like the litecoin .
This coin is just like the Dogecoin.
In 2014, it is a year for 2rd generation coins.
Such as , eth, emu, mcs, xcp, nxt ,nem,bts, nex, skycoin ,zerocoin....

yeah, i'm really happy to get this information, it's fair for all VGA miner.

Going for X11 will make Litecoin a popular target for botnets - right? And if you want something more power efficient, then ASICs are really the way forward.

In general, just changing algorithms for existings coins doesn't sound like a way to add stability to the crypto coins. And developing ASICs for X11 is also possible. Change algorithm next year again? No one will ever take the coins seriously if hard forks are created everytime someone is afraid that his GPU doesn't generate enough profit.

We cannot say it was really a ninja launch, there was a thread mentioning that a new coin would be launched. Just the hour of the launch wasn't mentioned.

Regarding the 7am launch time, depends which country you live in.

But this thread is for discussing the X11 for LTC, ASICS will probably make the price go up, but they'll stay in the hands of few.

If there is one hard fork to LTC, probably company's won't invest money to develop ASICs to new algo, because there would be a high probability that again a new algo would come.

After convincing so many that LTC is silver to bitcoins gold. We need to change it like it isn't good enough? Seems odd.

This is because you are total n00b. First BTC ASICs arrived in early 2013, and than huge amount in september-october of 2013. And then in november booom, BTC price explodes. If there were not BTC ASICs, today BTC price would be around 30 USD max. ASICs are next step for every major crypto.

just mine darkcoin.....its at the stage litecoin was at in late 2012 - but with better features.

Hirocoin and Darkcoin have a great future ahead.

This is a surefire way to kill the coin. Take a look at "Hirocoin" for example, a botnet is creating 600k a day and lets face it when the others catch on its going to be a bloodbath.

I support this too, but you will need alot of hashing power won't you?

This is a blantant scheme to HIJACK LTC
Changing algo is thinking from Miner's Perspective.
I don't think people who are  pure traders of LTC
will appreciate it when they found out they are having
problem sending and receiving coins because some
rookies decide to hijack the transaction processing
method from "scrypt" to "x11".

+1 Darkcoin will be so big...

Hirocoin and Darkcoin have a great future ahead.

Please, don't spread FUD.

When a majority supports this hardfork, there's no "hijacking". It's blockchain democracy.

It will probably take months to prepare everything and we will be careful.
All of us have a big stake in LTC and we won't take the risk to see it vaporize.

We are not satisfied with current development for Litecoin, it's very conservative, no decisions are made to secure it's future.
And as I said before, block 564,480 isn't set in concrete. There's a lot of work to be done.

I talked to a guy with a farm that has over 200 GPUs. He supports this. It scares him that a little guy can buy an ASIC device and blow him away in hashing power. Much investment so little hashing.

This won't take off no exchange will switch to this retarded version of Litecoin.

Just leave it alone. Change is good

What are you so scared of? Let asic take over scrypt coins then gpu farms can start supporting other coins that are more asic resistant. The value of any coin is in its community, which leads to global acceptance. Grow the community and the coin becomes more valuable

I think that they would go the way 51% will...

Is this thread really going to reach 10 pages before the

APRIL FOOLS !

post ?

THIS.

I find it very concerning that the main developers aren't behind this and may not even have had an opportunity to view this proposal, let alone comment on it. I also find it very concerning how lightly these guys are taking the idea of a hard fork. To hard fork a chain as established as Litecoin is without some chain-breaking emergency going on (i.e. Scrypt found to be completely broken), you need at least a year and a very good plan. The premise of leaving a placeholder for the new client downloads and making it seem like a block has already been chosen for the fork is misleading at best, if not outright fraudulent.

Therefore, in the interest of protecting the Bitcoin community, I have rightly flagged this thread as unofficial. You should be ashamed of having posted this.

Thank you for doing this. Going renegade is not the way to go about enacting what someone may think is "the correct change."

LTC needs to stay scrypt to support and benefit from the scrypt asics. Why can't you just be content with mining Darkcoin? There are plenty of GPU farms out there that will certainly switch to that coin once the 250Mh KnC units begin arriving.

Agree, change the coin which mines X11, I mine DRK and I`m very satisfied.

Do it!!!

To prevent confusion I have removed the blocknumber for the hardfork from the title.
As said before, the blocknumber is subject to change and not set in concrete.

A coin and blockchain is not owned by any developer and or group and if a majority of the people holding, mining, running exchanges and pools are behind a hardfork, nothing can stop it.

If there is no support by a majority to be found for a hardfork, there will be no hardfork.
As said before, we will take several months to prepare this and gain support.
We hope to get the developerteam of Litecoin behind us but they rejected changes and ideas before. Very conservative and we think they are not doing a good job for LTC.

You as a moderator on this forum, can probably see my real IP and my senior username. That should be enough to proof you're not dealing with a fraud or a rookie.

To preserve LTC for the future, it's now time to make decisions.

http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/litecoin_change.png

The logos are dope. ;D

I don't have an ASIC machine, and would be love to mine on the LTC-X11 with CPU. :)

Why would I build another GPU rig for $2200 when i can get a Script Asic miner that hashes 3 times as much with less power and costs me less than $400?

The low cost high efficiency Asic machines make it even easier for everyone to mine litecoin for much less than using GPUs. So they should help to maintain decentralization. Basically anyone get > 8 MHS for $0.04 per kHs and use a ton less electricity than GPUs.

I might even give away my GPUs just to replace them with 30 Fibonacci recursions per GPU on my mining rig. Way cheaper way to get great hashing power on one rig and at a much lower price per kHs. I just can't see how that will decrease decentralization. Everyone can do the same without buying a KNC Titan.

Why not just switch to (the original X11 coin) DarkCoin? It actually has useful other features like DGW and DarkSend

I'll be honest, this thread gave me a good laugh.

Now that was a giant waste of your time, OP.

Lets keep this on topic, those that advertise other coins in this thread get the obligatory ignore.

Good tag, but we all know this can never happen without Dev approval so it is a good discussion to have. After all As far as I know LTC was specifically intended to be ASIC proof. Or am I wrong on this?

Did this thread have been success?

X11 is stupid, only algo that is asic proof is scrypt chacha with scheduled N factor changes on a rather frequent schedule. Frequent enough to put down asic development.

Cryptocurrencies live or die by Metcalf's law - the network effect.  The value of the network increases nonlinearly with the number of users.

Litecoin is the #2 crypto by market cap and is beginning to get some merchant adoption.  If it is forcibly split into two chains, the value of both chains will likely be less than today's total.  Uncertainty will kill merchant interest. Two smaller, weaker versions of litrecoin, divided, will both fail and be surpassed by others that are more stable.

Cryptos do not exist for the miners.  Mining is a service to secure the chain.  It should be hard.  In a mature system, mining should earn low single digit % returns, otherwise the coin is no better than a bank.

No such thing as asic-proof with most common algorithms. If the schedule is known in advance, an ASIC designer can make the necessary accommodations.

If on the other hand the coin is protected by the will of the devs to hardfork to something slightly different, then any algorithm is ok. For example just as scrypt-n could change the n factor, X11 could hardfork to reverse the flow of hashing between some hash types, thus braking ASIC functionality that expects the flow to go a certain way. Or even adding another two three hashes and making it X12/X13/X14/X15 etc.

LOL you ain't doing this for Litecoin mate, not as long as i'm breathing/

So because you want to change the creation of the devs or because the peoples want, you will? it's not your creation man...

You're a fcking nazi.

Just for money.... you are ready to make anything.

Nope, a community takeover isn't bad...thing is it probably won't happen. Yacoin had one, the dev went missing and more capable people took over.

Just because it's not a fair market... Somebody, maybe who developed these Asic, is already using them... with such huge scrypt firepower they are collecting scrypt coins like nuts!.. Just some months for them to collect lot of coins witn a not fair hardware equipment... Who bought them in preorder gave the money long time ago... and they will receive asic when it will be late and the producers already squeezed out the most precious juice from scrypt coins... Good business is to have money in advance, to use now these asic and to dispatch them out with a high delay! Too easy and too unfair for me! and again... once these asic will finally be in stock they will already have a 2nd generation ready to mine for them w your money again at a higher and higher hashrate...
If the team will think it's better to change the algo then i'm for it!
Long life to the GPUs mining rigs!

You're not getting it...hard forking the coin every time is too complicated and not a good idea, imho.

Scheduled n factor changes make it pretty hard for asic developments to surface, since you'd need more and more ram each time to maintain the shaders saturated. Gpus will win each time, since you can adjust settings or get gpus with more vram and play with raw intensity and lookup gap.

Making asics and having to modify the software or making a new batch for each N factor is not economically feasible at all.

IMHO Better create your coin if you want your own algo. At the time of this means you do not have the ability to handle a coin and prefer to take the hard job of others(devs, community, minners, investors) and a stable user base, just my opinion don't hate me :)

These idiots think they can fork the litecoin change, fuck it rare possibility they will they choose x11, something that isn't even tested properly yet.

No point making Litecoin ASIC proof, the real aim is having the ASIC's diversified. I do whatever in my power i can to discourage the promotion of PRE-Orders happening, once we keep it this way it's unlikely we will have another BFLabs fiasco happening.

QFT


EDIT:
I would also like to add that if and when the Devs do this they will have PROVEN that they are willing and able to hard fork when needed and then those that would profit on creating the ASIC for the next fork will realize it is doomed to failure before release and therefor will naturally not attempt it again.

Lets just make everyone happy...What about litecoin-asic and litecoin-Scrypt  ;D

If you want to experiment, make your own coin.  There is $350 million in market value in Litecoin, and a rogue hard fork puts that value at risk.  A big part of that value is due to the stability, longevity, and widespread adoption of litecoin.  The technology is proven.  Your proposal will destroy the very factors that make Litecoin valuable as it is today.

Ok Nostradamus. I think you missed the point of this discussion.

BTW before anyone thinks otherwise, I am not part of this group and stumbled on this thread as I have been thinking ASIC is a centralization factor for some time and only one coin can afford it and that coin is already "Coined" so to speak.

I assume you voted against?

LOL, you lose. That didn't take long. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

so, there'll be 2 LTC or the older must die?

If a majority agrees on mining and trading with the updated client (with the hardfork set at block 5xx,xxx) the old chain can still be mined but will not be accepted by pools, exchanges, etc.

Hardforking is the easy part, the developers told me.
The difficult part is to get everyone behind us, on the new fork.

That's where our challenge lies ahead.

Litecoin is not owned by the current developers or anyone, it's a decentralized P2P currency and if enough people support a change, that's the change.
That's why, for example, Ghostlander was able to takeover PXC when the developers went awol; the community, pools and exchanges accepted his hardfork for the parameters he changed.

We like to call coins "decentralized" but when a group offers to bring changes to the coin, people start pointing at the LTC developers. They are not needed, just like Satoshi Nakamoto wasn't needed for the success of Bitcoin.

Some people are screaming and shouting at us for the fact that we want to bring progress to LTC. I guess they don't understand how P2P cryptocurrencies work.

The first step to getting everyone onboard is to get the Dev's to come in a thread and SAY they are onboard. Since you have spoken to them this should not be a problem rite?

I would just like to see them start a thread to discuss the matter. The community should decide on what algo to change if any not some guy that says We are gonna add x11. I'm not arguing it's not the best algo to goto as I freely admit I have not researched it and don't intend to spend my time do just that. But it does need to be vetted by those that are capable as well as vested.

I vote NO.

If you want a new algorithm then make a new coin or mine one that has what you like. Litecoin is fine as it is.

ASIC is the natural progression from GPU's just as GPU's were from CPU's.

Also, if there's a split it 'could' make both chains more vulnerable to attack.

It will likely bring into question the coins value/security.

Again, if you want something different, why mess with litecoin?

Not everyone can deal with GPU's and the problems that come with them. ASIC's (although pre orders suck) allow even more people to get involved as they are usually self contained professionally designed devices.

My 2 cents.

Good luck on this. You will hardly get any support though, and it will remain as just another fork.

2 LTC can exist, of course.

In practice this new one will not gain any traction and will probably die off soon enough.

OP, I understand what you are trying to do, but you are fighting a losing battle.

A hard fork is simply the creation of a new coin. Sure you can say, "This new coin will honor the balances of the old coin prior to block X", but its still a new coin.

There is no point in fighting technological progress, you will ultimately fail. You cannot protect anything from the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

"Technological" progress as in "pre-order funded R&D" devices that you get way after the manufacturer's done playing with them is not my idea of progress nor descentralization.
I think greed will make it hard to fight these asic beeyetches but the pre-order scam must die, people should vote with their wallets...just my opinion naturally.

You won't make any money buying asics from the greedy as fug manufacturers who only deal with pre-orders. Go gpu, AMD or Nvidia don't care as much as to not sell you gpus and mine themselves, they got better things to do.

This is not ethical, if you have a problem with Litecoin - then make another coin, don't try to steal Litecoin's userbase. Anyways, chances this project will succeed are ridiculous, you're wasting your time.

Doing this wouldn't secure LiteCoin's future. It would doom it.

ASIC doesn't mean you loose decentralization. I mine both with GPUs and with ASICs. ASICs are cheaper, faster, energy efficient. The energy efficiency means someone like myself who doesn’t own a datacenter with 1000s of AMPs of power can mine 100s of MegaHashs. If you stay with GPUs then in the future only people with lots of time, money, large scale cooling, and power can mine the coin for profit.

Again ASICs means you can mine coin for *cheaper* up front costs.
Again ASICs means you can mine coin for *less* power.
Again ASICs means you can *scale* your mining operation to larger heights without having data-center like resources.
Again ASICs means more coin, for less energy, to *more people*, faster.

ASICs should not be feared.

People do not like that they will have to spend more money after buying a lot of GPUs that may have not yet gotten a ROI. That is understandable. And there are other Coins out there that are still GPU only. So there is no need to throw in the towel. Why not look into up-in-coming coin ideas. Like SecureCoin, or FairQuark. Or some of the N-Scrypt coins.

If you make a coin that tries to replace LiteCoin but is more ASIC resistant you will just... lower.. the difficulty of ... litecoin... hrmm... GO GO GO dam those dirty ASICs for taking over LiteCoin... ALL GPU miners should just leave now! Power to the ... rrr... X11 Coin!? woot!

p.s:
Also... X11!? De-frack? You REALLY wanna name your coin after a monolithic horrible bundle of miss match code that is X11. Not to borrow from the Emacs haters but... X11 is a good OS, its just lacking a Window System. Actually that isn't even true... its horrible. All hail WayLand!

yep , leave litecoin as it is.we dont need u messing with it.i think its quite pethetic u saying u dont care weather u get litecoin dev's support or not.to me thats just fuking rude.go make your own coin.the litecoin communtiy dont want this.y fuk with something that aint broken.

Why do you mine DRK instead HIRO?
When I calc profit at current price for 30,000 khash /X11/:

DRK about 12 DRK daily = 0.01682 BTC
HIRO about 2000 HIRO daily = 0.0436 BTC

really don't understand how can someone mine DRK and be happy with so low earnings.
Fact is, that X11 consume about -50% electricity compare with scrypt, but anyway 0,016 daily is fuckin low for that speed




And I thing X11 for regular ltc is not good idea. Ltc is fine now, when the price jump up thanks to asics, more X11 alts will come. Thats good for GPUs future. There is new ltc for gpus - HIRO
And really decentralized network is no ASIC network, because no one can buy it "right now" /pre-orders, late delivery etc./ compare with GPUs, and ROI at invest $10,000 is discutable, if you'r not a manufacturer :)
Time to look at PoS coins like communitycoin, I thing big potential coin .)

So let me get this straight, it's not your coin, you weren't even around during its inception, but now all the sudden you decided that its your coin?

This is mildly entertaining.

i bet its aprosil fools joke - but preety good one ;)

Kocur. Please explain to me how pre-orders or late deliveries causes coins to become centralized.

-- For the sake of niceness... Pretty please

YES!!! aprosil fools joke!!!!  lol

No. This doesn't feel right at all and I can't see Litecoin flourishing if your plan were to succeed. What unique position do you hold that you think you have any chance to make this happen?

Awful idea.

I mean decentralized network, not coins. And because you dont have any TITAN at this time, but knc yes .)
While forgotten gpu miners r still on scrypt, other gets huge hashes for a buck. Its about it...

This is a terribly short-sighted idea. I'm betting that your rationalizing this decision because you will no longer be able to mine Litecoin directly with your GPU's. A cryptocurrency should be looked at as a way to purchase goods. It was never supposed to be your own money printing machine. Grow up.

This is 100% true. This will fail miserably. The old blockchain will have more users and more hash. I haven't really heard a good reason for switching algos besides GPU miners wanting to get the best ROI. I'm all for decentralization and the dev in this thread is correct in that if he gathers enough support then his fork can become the official "LTC" blockchain. The idea that the original devs have 100% control of the blockchain moving forward defeats the purpose of having it decentralized in the first place. ASICs are like $200... go buy one if you want to keep mining! Group buy a big one. Plenty of options other than trying to fork the chain that will just cause confusion.

Why buy asics if mining with them isn't profitable unless you're the manufacturer smart ass?

I won't bother posting anymore, people in here need to get an MRI scan.

 Woot go for it ! and why the hell the Litecoin Dev has not been working on this since the mere rumor of Asics hitting scrypt is beyond me. When i came from Bitcoin and watching that get hit by Asics and become what it is now i jumped on Supporting Litecoin and was gung ho about it and you know why? Because it was supposedly Asic Proof.

 I support you guys here with this fork but really simply think the Litecoin Dev's should have stood to their words and changed a few lines of coding making Litecoin truly asic proof. If Litecoin did this other alts would get off there ass's and follow the benchmark you guys set..


 All i know is if the community sits back once again as us gpu miners were forced out of Bitcoin now sit back and do nothing as we are kicked out of this community then that's just pathetic.

 The company that even though about making Asics for Script as nothing more then pathetic bottom feeders anyway.

 Once those Asics come there will be no saving Scrypt so im with ya 100% No asics in scrypt...GTFO!

MybadOmen

Offering 2000 LTC to OP to lock thread.

 ??? ican believe it - -！

ASIC is simply needed for the bigger picture... We need a stronger network

First I mean coins as in any coin's hashrate at the moment.

I could simply end this argument by pointing you at BitCoin and saying... its decentralized... its completely ASIC. Argument finished. But.. here is a rant if you want.

Knc isn't the only company producing Asics for scrypt. They are also only one company and there production cannot take 51% of the global hashrate for LiteCoin or DogeCoin.. or hell WorldCoin.

Also I ordered asics from GridSeed. And I have them running now. So... although i did experience unexpected delays I do not feel that is because Hashra wants to take 51% of the hashing power to rule the LTC world! MUAHAHAHAHAAH... cough cough

Lets say you only do mining with a GPU only coin. Lets get the scenario set.
1. The difficulty will always rise. (Just like BTC and LTC)
2. The price rises over time... in theory but has bumps along there way. (Just like BTC and LTC)
3. The price also doesn't rise in direct proportion to the diff. (Just like BTC and LTC)

You mine with your GPUs.
You have 12 of them.
You can space currently for 12 more. Any more and you would have to either move your setup or pay for an electrician for more AMPs and better cooling.
The diff keeps going up.
You keep adding more.
You like many other people run out of space and/or power and/or effect way to cool.
The diff keeps rising
The diff keeps rising
... rising.... rising
How does it keep rising?
Two things...
1. People keep adopting the coin and they setup there own 12+ cards.
2. There are people out there that have there own mini datacenters with 100s of cards. These people have money.. and time.
Eventually it becomes more and more unpractical to mine with your GPUs with this coin. You move on to another coin.
Eventually the mass majority of miners left on that coin are the ones with piss tons of GPUs. That is not very decentralized.

If you say... "Wait the price will go up too. So my 24 card rig would still make money right?". Will it make more money then perhaps a different coin? If you where to shift with others wouldn't that be a sign that your coin isn't stable?

But more notably. Diff DOES NOT EFFECT PRICE! Or at least not heavily. Trading amounts and adoption effect price. The more trades normally means the price will rise. BitCoin rose and fell not with its diff (although the diff has rose) the price rose with a massive adoption and interest in the coin, mostly in China. The diff and the price of wattage helps to keep the price from dropping below a certain point. And it also helps to rise the price. But it only a minor effect in comparison to say.. rumors of China changing there policy on crypocurrancy. That can cause price drops... huge ones.


Here is an analogy:
Say you want to get into the mover business. Its awesome. You can make money on the side and you can use equipment you already own and take care of. Other people catch onto the idea for some spare cash and its really exciting. You have your car to help move stuff and you get paid for it.

Well time goes by and more people want to get into it. They see it as a way to make more money. Not just on the side. So they go out and buy a truck. Trucks are much more fuel efficient. You see your car may get twice.. nearly 3 times the fuel economy. But because its a small car you have to make 10 trips. The Truck only 1 thus more efficient. And because you have to take 10 trips the guy with the Truck can get many more jobs before you even get one finished.

Before you know it its hard to find even a single job because everyone around now has Trucks. So what do you do? Do you buy a Truck or do you complain that everyone else has one?

Well of course you complain that everyone else has a Truck but you do not.

But it gets worse. You see there are lots of people out there interested in the mover business now. You are a trend starter! But they look at your car and wonder why? Its more expensive. It may have low upfront cost, but it has low long term returns. It may be a nicer starter point to test the waters so to speak. But it is not a solid long term investment.

Because of this the mover business isn't taken seriously and wide adoption isn't excepted. (This is where the analogy really breaks up... but yeah its not perfect) Without being taken seriously the system can never grow beyond a certain point. It can be a great tool to fight the man or the banking system if you are in a 3rd world country. Or Spain whose youth pretty much blame the Banks for being assholes. But thats about it.



All you have to do is look at BitCoin to see how awesome ASICs are to the little guy. Right now I can buy an ANT Miner S1 for roughly 400 bucks with shipping included! It will arrive at my doorstep before the end of the week. (I buy from BitMain directly and I always get them in roughly 3 to 4 days later). There current return in investment is about 60 days! You CANNOT do that with GPUs. A new R9 280x from newegg is not going to get you that kinda ROI with almost any coin. And if it does the longer that Coin is around the less the ROI will be for mining it. Rise in diff being faster then the rise in price.

If someone wanted to get them selves into mining I would point them in that direction. They are cheap, you can buy them and get them within days. And there ROI is quick. Oh... one more then... you dont have to learn a bunch of crazy computer stuff. No Linux.. no windows... riser cards whats that? I have to short the A1 and B17 pins on a PCI 1x slot.. i didn't even know that was hot swappable! Compile what you say? Or... can you browse the web? Good you can setup a dam Ant Miner S1 none of that other noise. Congrats you are mining. You can put easily 5+ or 10+ in your house without changing a dam thing.

ASICs empowers new comers. (Makes it easy by putting into one package)
ASICs is cheaper. (400 bucks after shipping is about the same price or only a little more then a R9 280x which doesn't give you as much)
ASICs improves centralization by giving everyone the ability to scale there mining operation. And if you are running out of power in your house using ASICs then at that point you are easily making enough money to go Colo.

GPUs where not made for mining. They where made for graphics. They demand a lot more power. It is simply better to use a device/tool for what it was meant for.  What needs to be focused on is the coin features and technology itself. Not how its "mined" or "minted".

Its a noble idea to let people use equipment they already own to help them make more money. But the truth is that most miners and any serious miners are people who are already in one way or another in the techy/nerdy field. You are not empowering the world. Just a bunch of nerdy geeky people... like myself. And that isn't going to change. The daily user of BTC/LTC/X11 shouldn't need to mine. They simply use the currency.

Again on my soap box but focus should be on things like BitCoin 2.0. Or new ideas like Poof of Stake or multi-algorithm coins. That try to help deal with some of the possible pitfalls of the current coins. BitCoin is only an idea. And the idea still needs work. That should be the focus.

And... I just wasted 30 minutes of my life... *sigh* why internet... why.

I don't think we need to change the algorithm, and just because a mining machine, we will change our algorithm, it will cause serious split ends.

asics made for ltc is showing the support for the coin
i myself bought more ltc cus of asic miners ( fpga )

if u or any one changes the algo to be gpu only again i will dump all my ltc

asics will make ltc harder to mine tus price will go up ( take that away and ) no ty

other coins will take over for the gpu users  ( gpu,s cost way more power to keep the network secure and stable )

You have some valid points but 60 day roi...really?

Fixed difficulty in your calculations or what?

thanks for your 30 mins :)

just little correction with your antminer

ANTMINER S1 Dual Blades Spec
Hash rate: 180 GH/s
Power consumption: about 360 W from the wall
.
.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

check this caclulator

there is more than 172 days and still -0,2 btc. Imagine ROI. 200 days + And during these 200+ days will diff rising and rising, so because of that I dont wanna buy any asic. Its pure pyramide game. Only real smart profit has manufacturers, other can just keep mined coins and wait for price growing. Its way too, everyone's choice

This. The only people who make any real money off ASICs are the manufacturers of them. By the time they sell them on to the public they're practically worthless.

"ASICs put power in the hands of the little guy!" LOL, there's one born every minute.

That $400 S1 Antminer will never pay for itself. Neither will the Titan when KnC have finished mining with it and flog it on to you suckers. For people in the money game it's amazing how many of you can't do simple math.

Here:
http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator/?h=180.00&p=350.00&pc=0.11&pf=1&d=5006860589.20540000&r=25.00000000&er=487.39000000&hc=460


You are most welcome! ^.^

And I just got 4 in this week. On BTCGuild they have made a little less then 1/6th of the BTC back that I spent on them already and its been 5 1/2 days so far. So.. yeah.. been mining with those things pretty well. Although power wise not so good. I also got CoinTerras. Those...are... beautiful. ^.^

congrats, but be sure that within 40 days you'll have just 25% daily income from now
calc on coinwarz sucks
did you look at calc I posted ?

I would like to see that happenning!

for ltc,  very good news.

Sounds good. LTC need as many as possible people to take part in. ASIC resistance should be necessary, otherwise, LTC will lose lots of people. This can also prevent 51% attack.

I did. However I would like to note a few things.
1. The start date needs to be -5. (Which is important)
2. I bought these before the lastest massive price drop. I bought them like 10 or 11 days ago when BTC was actually over 600 and looking like it was finally over all that MtGox crap. The bitcoinwisdom doesn't account for possible increases in price. I wont sell my coin with the current price. So change the calc to -5 adn price of 600. And you see an ROI of 63 days. ^.^

Another thing to point out is how long it will take to get back the BTC. Never minding its value. The idea is. If I am setting on some BTC waiting till its value is high so I can sell it for whatever reason. Lets say its hookers and blow. Is there something I can do to increase the amount I already have? The only to ways I know is to either one mine more. Or two do micro trading or something along those lines. I attempt to do both. It would take roughly 114 days according to bitcoinwisdom to get the amount of coin back again. But I can still keep mining. In fact before it becomes completely pointless to mine with my current rig. I am going to get roughly a whole coin out of it! ^.^ So I was setting on 3.5ish coin. 6 months from now I will have 4.5 and power costs not with standing I got a who other btc.

Is this the best way to make money.  Nah going to school, getting an education, and whoring yourself out to people is the best way to make money. But its a fun hobby!

Although its a risk of course. Will the price really rise again? I assume that it will. And I can afford it (the running cost of these miners is like 35 bucks a month)

But thanks for your updates and unlike some people on the interwebs not simply calling me a nazi fagot from the moon and i need to take my meds or something like that. :-P

I have to repost this from MaGNeT :) Imagine that you've got few titans right now:) and compare earnings, I thing ROI within few days...

anyway, its all about btc price, if is high, everyone is fine, if not every is nervous...:)

The OP is not Litecoin dev, if you want to clone, then clone. Don't try to ack like you are Litecoin dev. You cannot do anything about Litecoin. If you are not Coblee, or Warren, or Pooler, please don't BS.

I get that the diff will go up. And that at first there will be some people that have a lot more power then others.

But in the end BTC is all ASIC and it isn't centralized it is still decentralized. Which was my original question to you.

I mean I do not know what will happen in the future for BTC.

But that is my second point. *soap box* We should be focused on new features of ways to use the BTC poof of concept. There are so many new ideas. LTC was a poof of concept that Scypt can be used. Doge or rather lottoCoin or whichever came first proved that you can have a stable coin with variable block rewards. Peer and Mint proved you can have Poof-Of-Stack a.k.a built in interest. SecureCoin proved you can have multi-agorithm. Etc...

I guess my main point it the only thing diff about this coin is they want to be GPU resistant. Which.. in my opinion is fighting a loosing battle from the get go. All these new coins that come out that appear to provide pretty much nothing new to the picture except maybe a few tweaks/changes to out it gives out rewards or how many coins there be. All of which is kinda interesting. But its kinda like if someone was to make a clone of CentOS and called it... New Awesome OS and the only change they made was the background of Gnome which nobody will use anyway cuz everyone is gonna SSH into it.

Stop trolling, you aren't going to fork it and even if you tried its not going to work. You have zero support from any major exchanges or pools on this, and I can personally guarantee that no developers, Charlie/Warren/anyone else on the team is working with you.



This is a pointless thread made to spread FUD about LTC.

 +1

You don't need the pools or miners.

All you need to get to change are the Fiat exchanges.  Everyone else will be forced to follow.

Basically get BTC-E to change, and maybe the chinese exchanges, and you're set.

Everyone else will have no choice.

LET VOTE  WHO WANNA TO FUCT OP'S MOM

Feel free to do so, i'm sure there will be plenty of people that will take your coins ;)
Also what does lead you that big ASIC farm owner will not attack the blockchain with 51%+?

Would be the best thing litecoin is dying because of Asic miner and will always farther down no action is taken, the big production companies have operated ogy Their machines are destroying the currency and currently Has 80% of the asci miner digging on this one thing and also ridiculous comes to an asci 100,000 Khash and if you put a company which Has 200 asci in stock functional and enabled on excavation explain you Because we are still falling, and with this it also leads down behind the bitcoin they need to monetize

While initially sounds like great idea - it isn't.

First of all, I'm using just GPU for mining. No ASIC.

But - ASIC's is thing that will keep LTC afloat. Hardfork to X11 will just plummet it to ground.

Why? Again -ASIC's. Big bucks invest into it, and this is what will keep it's price up.
I do hope there will be decent X11 alt-coins which can keep up the price so they are profitable for regular GPU miners.
But, hardforking LTC will most likely be it's doom.

Let me correct this for you.
You are not a LTC dev, you are a "dev" who wants to meddle with LTC algo
You want to create a LTC for to introduce a new coin
You are intentionally misleading people for your own profit

OP, are you using someone else's account to post this thread?

It's just that all your previous posts on this forum are, well, considerably less verbose and littered with odd habits such as double commas, something that is *entirely* absent from your posts on this thread and topic.

TL;DR

This is a new coin, NOT Litecoin - they just take the name since they hardfork from the blockchain aka your addresses are still there but you can't sell those as "scrypt" LTC, it's an entirely different blockchain and the coin name is just missleading - better call them xLTC.

This has zero impact on the original LTC - xLTC is just another shit-coin...

Hi,

Let me get something straight. You fork the Coin but changing the algorithm will only make a new coin right? Litecoin will not change if the clients don't change to the fork right?

Although this is a good idea it doesn't sound feasible. Litecoin is a stable coin in the community and in reality you'll only be creating a new coin because I dhought that a majority of the ltc community (exchanges included) will go this way.

In reality even if the exchanges accept this coin it is more likely to be a LTCx as someone suggest than LTC itself.

Just my humble opinion.

regards,

P.

This idea won't work, and if it does, not the way you intended to.

That's true. But I'm afraid of most of users won't realise it.
They just want to do sth for the purpose of their own profit.

Here's our response: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

Lol confess, you buy an asic LOL

So here is OFFICIAL LTC announce, right? great. Keep unchanged.

I agree with Coblee, it would hurt the coin too much if this project succeeds.

Instead use another name for the coin like HiroCoin did.

RIP litecoin

+1 shorting the life out of ltc.

LOL of course Litecoin devs doesn't want the algorithm to change... because they massively invested in ASIC scrypt.

Don't listen to ASIC investors. Do the X11 algorithm change or get fucked.

+1

In all case we have enough coin, so if litecoin die it will be Ok (i sold all my litecoin yesterday for invest into other coins)

We need to delete some coins, i can understand than people who have LTC do not agree with me, but it's not my fault and your fault if a tons of coins are released.

Also the bitcointalk admin who let the "Altcoin Announcement" open, it kill the cryptocurrencies. Now you can blame the responsible.

Dude!
Hirocoin has a one minute block rate and 400 coins per block
 so 24 * 60 *400 = 576,000 max coins per day
So how can this unnamed botnet of yours generate 600k a day

Thanks for the response.

anyone ever thought that cryptos are in a huge bubble right now?

Perfectly agree with you... but lot of people have big problems... and will go on to think that asics means more hashpower for less energy, more coins with less fatigue... what to do? let them to think what they want... to spend their money and to realise after 2 months their hashpower is already shit and they didn't pay back the investment yet... not last they could use their asics as hi-tech ornament...

Ahahahah! EXACTLY!!!

Added a link to the statement of a Litecoin developer to the OP.

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

What a joke! Tech Luddites trying to stop progress... This isn't 2010 anymore, big money is coming into crypto and this project just muddies the water around a highly successful (#2) coin. Go create some crap altcoin if that is your intention.

ASIC will stratify LTC with BTC, separating it from the shit.

WIth ASIC big money is GOING AWAY from cryptos ..

KNCminer bought an old helicopter-hangar in northern Sweden (5.500 m2) to mine Bitcoins with their powerful minings-rigs. "We make three million swedish crones (466,000USD) everyday from mining Bitcoins and selling, says Sam Cole, CEO KNCminer."


They have most network and they just mine and dump and have giant profit on expense off the others..and price goes down little by little..every $ you spend buying bitcoin big part off it go in to their pockets.

QFT!

People are just ignorant or brain dead...

Exactly.

Litecoin suffers form "the law of the handicap of a head start".

Same thing killed Nokia. It made the management of Nokia afraid to make changes to their business model and products (like their OS Symbian).

We don't want LTC to become the next Nokia or Kodak.
If Bitcoin is Napster, let LTC become Torrents.

fixed it for you ;)

+1

they made ​​an investment, and they harvest the result of their investment! where's the problem?! BTC is not a communist project!

Something like this would kill the cryptoworld altogether. No-one would put any many in any coin as it could be done to any coin. Which one would be next Bitcoin, Doge?

This debunks The legend of mighty hashrate that will secure our coin (from sky falling on our heads).
Also, farms like that will invest, rape and harvest not only LTC but any other profitable coin. In communism they will be executed, but no one is going to shoot that guys. They have right to act and others to react "within the law" ;)

You are probably a troll or you don't know what you are talking about...

Clearly, it will take much much time and effort to make a hard fork with compatible blockchains, the people here are rather lazy, just want easy money, and won't spend time ont that.

And X11 is not a revolutionary algorithm but a mix of several sources adapted (blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein etc.)

I'm not supporting this.

Although I don't like the future of scrypt asics, but you can't just change the coin.
Once a coin is released with an algo it must stay with this algo. Otherwise people will lose the trust in crypto, because they fear next month a coin could be with a completely different algo which lead to different prices.

Besides that the companys also invested a lot of money & work to produce asics. So it isn't illegal, just the hard work of them. Also the people who buy those asics. They invested a lot of real money, so why shouldn't they get profited from that.

It's within everybodys discretion to invest in asics or not. Nobody forbid it.

But this idea is completely stupid and could ruin not only LTC, but hurt the whole crypto market.

Again, this is nothing more than a troll thread of folks trying to spread FUD.


As long as im involved with LTC this will never happen.



I'm also having doubts about this thread, considering that it was mentioned by the OP it is a group of folks who are senior members here. It sounds more like a few folks that dont want LTC to succeed and want to confuse people. Either that or they have put little thought into this (or its an April fools joke).

this is the same team behind some coin fork lately? THE 51% TEAM  :D, dont fall into this they already mine tons of their forked version LTC and plan this 51% attack.
if anyone has the right to do algo change, is the dev. heck they not even bother to contact the dev

Will a hard fork reset the diff starting back at 0?

http://eofdreams.com/data_images/dreams/fork/fork-08.jpg

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/03/31/litecoin-hardfork-im-gesprach/

Agreed. You can't just change an algo to support your market position. Create a new coin and let them compete.

+1!

Gute Neuigkeiten!

Terrible idea, IMO. Just as the original dev's said, ASIC's won't hurt Litecoin. Besides, as people said, mining with ASIC's is much better for everyone (less expensive hardware, more profits).

And you want to fork one of the most established altcoins in existence... That is almost impossible, people are already used to Litecoin and using daily for many things, a change will not be welcome, and will cause an unnecessary split in a growing community. We have to change pools, exchanges, merchants... That's a lot of work. And besides, if both forks would co-exist that would be one hell of a confusion.

It's not worth the hassle making a fork for this. More work then benefits. If there's enough interest (and let's just say everyone is VERY interested in Litecoin), ASIC's for another algo's would appear in a heartbeat

ASIC wont hurt LTC. Are you sure? You have a few ppl with brains building ASIC's. Of course they are mining it to make profit.
Everyone sees that but most bag holder wont risk anything to change that. They have the $ now and they dont care trading is also profitable.
The devs have a lot of LTC i guess so no interest to change that.
Cant blame them, smart guys.
Sadly i seriously doubt anything will change here. Only a new coin can make the change.
With BTC at hand who need's another high value coin, something like doge could be the future.

ASICs = more profits for the manufacturers.

People keep repeating that blatant lie, out of ignorance I guess, that asics are cheaper and more efficient and thus more profits for the miners.

Well, NO!

You can't buy an asic NOW like you can buy gpus, and with the current pre-order mafia, it makes it impossible for anyone besided the manufacturers and their inner circle to make any money with asics.

That's just fact, I'm done with this, and lost faith on 90% of the human race right now...I can't believe the foolishness/blindness of some.

+53 bazillion

I fully agree with you, but a hard fork isn't the right way to solve this problem.

We already have Bitcoin Scrypt.  Born dead currency without future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBDi0iM2kcU

To all the people wanting to hardfork LTC. You clearly do not understand the reason for LTC so I will explain it.

Litecoin was made to be ASIC resistant BECAUSE: Litecoin will not be affected by ASIC and benefit from ASIC.

Also Because Reasons.

Litecoin was made to be resistent to current SHA256 asics, only recently they started creating and selling scrypt asics. Changing coin algos will lose peoples trust in crypto currency.

+1

Agreed.

Also 90% of network run by 10% of miners will lose peoples trust in crypto currency.

We are just going to have to agree to agree that this is a not a no win-win situation.

Beeker is clearly a rookie he mentioned hardforking LTC will be like hardforking PXC.

Uh oh...beeker not only a rookie but also on drug.

PXC was thousand dollars market cap coin. LTC is a hundred million dollars market cap coin.
PXC devs went awol and it was the right thing to do.
LTC devs are doing their job you're trying to hijack their job it's not the right thing to do.

Hardforking BTC and LTC to X11 would be pretty awesome.

And it would be a great way to stick it to the mega banker elite class who invested billions in Asic hardware.

Wtf is the point of crypto if a bank can simply mine all the coins themselves, the entire point of crypto was to get away from elitist bankers, and to make it so that everyone with a home computer can participate in the creation, security and use of their currency.

Asic hardware , just means that we are moving from one slave master to another, or in this case the same slave master but in a different system.

Kind of pointless.


Best thing for crypto would be if Asics were impossible.


In my eyes, litecoin is a failure, it failed with its mission statement which was to be asic resistant, the entire purpose of the coin was Asic resistance, and the price reflects that failure today.
I don't mine LTC , and have not mined it for a while, even though its still profitable, because I just don't see it having any real future.

The strongest algo will win in the end.
All these coins are here to test which algo is the
-Fastest
-Most Secure
-Most feature packed

Litecoins standard scrypt algo is none of the above and hasn't been for some time.
New dynamic algo coins are the future
things like N-factor , scrypt-jane etc.... etc...


The entire point of all crypto, is to get away from banksters, the algo has to succeed in that by resisting hardware that bankers can buy up in droves to take over the coin.

Litecoin now stands on the 2nd place behind Bitcoin, it is very difficult to surpass Bitcoin even ASIC comes.
ASIC will make Litecoin lose more supports, and in the end only people with ASIC will mine this coin.
Look at current situation, coins such as Darkcoin, etc are taking the place of Litecoin if this problem is not solved.
Litecoin has long been following Bitcoin, and Bitcoin is kind of protecting Litecoin, because whatever problem happens will happen in Bitcoin first.
However, this time will be different.
Bitcoin do not need to be changed after ASIC comes doesn't mean Litecoin can follow it.
If Litecoin do not make a change, the 2nd place will be largely questioned.


I see people saying: "Litecoin will gain value after ASIC comes, because Bitcoin gain value".
The reason Bitcoin gain value is because it is the No.1. All altcoin prices are basically based on it.
How about Litecoin? I don't think so.

From now on, here is my standard reply to anyone who wants to change the LTC POW


http://i3.minus.com/ibvJ3Jz8PUJmd3.jpg

I concur with Coblee's statement on the litecoin forum
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0
And Warren, too.


Well said!  :)

Just mine Ultracoin with your gpus when scrypt asics take over litecoin

Ultracoin is that the coin thats supa fast

with a great community behind it

and ofc going on BTC-e in May 

We feel the 65% in the poll is a pretty convincing number for us to continue on our project.

The original developers vote against but Litecoin is not owned by them.
Litecoin is owned by the community.

The developers try to spread FUD, we expected this.
Phase 2 of project "LTC 2 X11" will start in 3 weeks from now.
We will contact pool operators of major pools and exchanges to make the transition as smooth as possible.

If pools and or exchanges won't follow us, we understand we can't finish our project. We need their support for this to succeed.
I expect they will be contacted by Coblee too, so we really need to convince them.

Thanks for your support so far!

@Beeker, please address my question from earlier in the thread about whether you are using someone else's forum account for these discussion.

You clearly are not the same person evidenced by your posting history.

So the question remains, why are you using somebody else's account?

Why x11? It can easily be ported to asic, has a low memory footprint and that's the main deterrent, vram chip cost.
Variable n factor with shorter schedules would be way better.

Thanks, we already addressed this:

Oh great. I'll have to go get some more popcorn.

I thought this display of comedy was already over. But here comes the second act.

STOP ALL THIS NON-SENSE, please read this:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

Best Regards.

Hey X11 team, would you be willing to make a post to respond to our posts? https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0
Specifically:
- Who are you and why are you hiding behind the user Beeker?
- X11 is possibly less ASIC-resistant than even Scrypt. So why X11?
- Would you just switch algorithm again when ASIC is ever built for X11?
- Are you not concerned about splintering the Litecoin userbase with this controversial change?
- How do you plan to convince the exchanges to switch to your fork when you don't have the support of the Litecoin developers, the Litecoin Association, and have no influence within the community (I'm assuming this since we don't know who you are), and have no control of litecoin.org and other litecoin websites?
- Are you willing to not use the name Litecoin/LTC so as to not cause mass confusion?

Looking forward to your reply.

And when you do reveal yourself. Please please convince us why your development team will do a better job than the current Litecoin development team moving forward. What kind of development work have you done on Bitcoin, Litecoin, or any other alts. And lastly, if your motivations are to save Litecoin, than why have you not contributed to the Litecoin codebase previously and joined our team?

That would be a great revolution.

It would be the first time that a community decide to make a change that the creator doesn't agree with.

Thats the one yes  ;D

Yep.  Might be time to cash in my Litecoins - this split in the community will only hurt the price.

And all for some perceived threat from ASICs that may never eventuate.  Sad.

On the other hand, the Darwinian in me says that if a single person (or team) can bring down a coin simply by persuading people to accept a forked version of it, then it's not robust enough to be used as a currency and therefore deserves oblivion.

This hijacking attempt will be a good test for Litecoin.

I'm still not figured out if you guys are trolling or just too dumb to see you are harming the coin.

And why not make it CPU mine only?? Litecoin, originally, wasn't ment for GPU's either.

The ONLY reason to do this is to retain GPU mineability. Yet the downsides don't weigh up for this point. Decentralization due to ASICs is nonsense, the vendors are openly selling their hardware so the hashes will go to the private person who bought them. A higher risk would be the centralised pooling of hashes, especially the auto-switch pools but this problem can't be fixed.

Retarded scammer, trying to destroy hard work of LTC developement team, and most likely LTC itself...?

just shut this topic down and move on.its just terrible what u are trying to do.and than to go say u going ahead with it if u get the community support weather litecoin devs like it or not.that just down right fuking rude and inconsiderate.if thats your attitude i wouldnt want u as a dev.

LTC is not just about mining anymore... people have invested $ into LTC, so  how will u explain to average Joe, that his 10000$ worth of LTC is lost, cause he send them to the LTC wallet that doesnt exist. Go and create your own "ASIC resistant" coin, build infrastructure around it, do whaveter you want... and leave LTC to DEV team and community behind them.

When the hardfork and the transition to the new algorithm is completed, it's still LTC but with another algorithm. Please don't spread FUD.

- dear Charlie, we will not disclose that (yet)
- show me one existing X11 ASIC?
- yes, we would. And because of that, no company would take the risk to invest in building an ASIC for X11 unless another X11 coin (HIRO / DRK) becomes the second cryptocurrency
- our main concern is we will not be able to convince an overwhelming majority to support the hardfork and that's why we will have to put much effort in it
- exchanges and pools will be dealt with, without their support there will be no hardfork. A website is not vital for the survival of a coin, you may or may not host the hardforked client on the current website, there are other ways to distribute a client
- the hardforked coin still is LTC after the hardfork, so no reason for confusion. All the coins will stay where they are, except for a client update nothing will change for anyone, except the miners use another miner and scrypt ASICS become irrelevant for LTC

You're welcome.

You never considered that people that want to ruin Litecoin completely (because of interest/investment in other coins) may vote Yes to fork Litecoin - just because they all know that such a fork will create chaos and make Litecoin become less popular?

Isn't it also likely that most of the people voting Yes never had a chance to read the offical response from the Litecoin team? I think most people that first think "oh, I don't like asic for some reason, I must vote yes here because some random guy on the Internet say so", actually would change their opinion if they read the very good arguments for not changing to X11.

In addition to all that, there are probably many people that consider this to be a joke and don't even bother to vote. After all, X11 is more ASIC friendly and Botnet friendly than Scrypt, so none of this makes much sense.

so there will be no hardfork. no more worries ;)
if all exchanges and pools switch at the same moment the confusion will only be short: but its still very unlikely to happen

Haha well said Beeker.
I like the attitude.

Fuck the ASIC investors. They are just here for the money.

Thanks for your response.
A link to the official response of the current Litecoin developers is in the OP.

Well, I'm sad to see that you are going ahead with this plan. And using the 65% vote of a tiny poll as the reason. I would have to assume this is a FUD attempt by a group that is trying to destroy Litecoin or by a misguided group that has no vision on what's good for Litecoin. Either way, the Litecoin development team will fight hard against it. Though it's a super waste of our time and resources.


Agreed. If this FUD attempt can bring down Litecoin, then Litecoin is not strong enough. And if this rogue development team can overthrow us, then we don't deserve to be running Litecoin development. This is an open decentralized currency, so time will tell.

We don't want to create confusion, that's why we are clear about what we want to do:

- create enough support by a majority involved with LTC (pools, exchanges, community)
- hardfork at current block + 3 months so there will be enough time for everyone to switch over their clients/daemons at the time the chosen block is reached

We want this to be a smooth experience for we are heavily invested in Litecoin ourselves and it would be plain stupid to shoot in our own foot.

So if someone is a BTC holder and buys 10.000 LTC, intentionally, one block prior to the fork, and sells these 10.000 LTC back one block after the fork, then he'll suddenly have both his BTCs and the LTCs on the alternate fork.

Now, if and whenever some exchange adopts xLTC, then he'll have 10.000 LTC to spend / dump in the alternate fork. Yeah, I mean, what can possibly go wrong there... hmmm...  ;D

I don't know much about hardforking and coding but this is bull.

There have been mandatory updates before that can kick you of the hardfork unless you upgrade.
It shouldn't be too hard.

I predict GPU miners will do the same as they did 12 months ago: they left BTC when ASICs took over the network.
Now ASICs are taking over the LTC network and GPU LTC miners need a new coin to mine.

Hirocoin will be the next coin to watch. It doesn't sound as "black and illegal" as Darkcoin, so there will be no problems for shops to accept it.
I predicted the same for LTC 12 months ago and people told me I was crazy. Well... Who's crazy now? ;)

proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160300.0

X11 is the algo of 2014.

Oh yes, all the people who bought GPU's were just wanting great gaming machines and to support the litecoin community with all the extra noise and heat and electricity usage. They had NO profit motivation in buying a bunch of $400 GPU's.

Actually that's a different issue because we are really talking about two different coins where the LTC-x will have as "premine" the exact situation of the LTC blockchain up to block number <to be determined>.

Normal hardforks are one fork pulling ahead and making the other obsolete by virtue of 51% hashpower on the exact same network. There will be no hashpower competition in two different algorithm networks. What will be, is two different coins where one is trying to obsolete the other, but that will, in itself, be in a very vulnerable position for an economic attack.

Non-LTC stakeholders have nothing to lose by buying a few LTCs prior to the fork, cloning them automatically to the alternate fork which will use the same blockchain, selling the LTCs they bought on the main fork, and then waiting for a few months to see if LTC-x is ever adopted in some exchange so that they can dump the heck out of it with the cloned LTCs.


I'm a DRK / X11 fan as well, and I understand the miners love towards X11. Thing is, and LTC devs have a point there, if something is GPU mineable = it is ASICable. Whether it's X11, Scrypt, Scrypt-N etc etc. It's all the same really, except the price perhaps: X11 asics can be more affordable for regular people as they will require less ram - so the "ASICs are great for the network" and "X11 is actually easier to ASIC" combined with the higher mem prices = epic win through affordable X11 ASICs, instead of expensive-only-for-the-rich scrypt/scryptN asics :P

The time involved is probably not even 1 to 2 years, but more like a few months for designing and manufacturing. But right now, yes, X11 is practically ASIC-resistant as it doesn't have any ASICs chasing it down. And with electricity prices being what they are, and heat being an issue, X11 will probably be the summer choice for north hemisphere.

As for Hirocoin vs DRK, Hirocoin is competing in the transparent market vs other altcoins.

The transparent market is a monopoly right now of 10bn market cap value where Bitcoin is the undisputed leader. Darkcoin is creating a new market and providing a new choice: Do you want your transactions and your money to be tracked, or do you want privacy?

So, just as you have one shop and everyone goes there (100% market) and then another one opens and the marketshare is shifted towards the new choice, it's the same situation with Darkcoin.

By presenting a new choice, people will now be able to choose on whether they want public or private cryptocurrencies. If even 1% of the transparent market opts for privacy, we are talking about 100 mn market cap. If 10% goes for the private market, we are talking about a billion USD.

I don't know how Hirocoin, or any other plain altcoin can have a better "this is the coin to watch" prospect than DRK. The fundamentals are very strong.

Please guys, keep this ontopic. It's not a HIC / DRK topic.

Yes, you are right: The question is really how can LTC-x coinholders be protected from the dumping that is possible from cloning LTCs of the main fork.

Let's say the fork is on 5th April 16:00 GMT.

1. On April 5, 15:00 GMT, I go on cryptsy, sell 10 BTC for 400 LTCs, send the 400 LTCs to my wallet.

2. 16:00 GMT- => Fork happens using the blockchain info up to that point.

3. On 17:00 GMT I send my 400 LTCs back to cryptsy and sell them for 10 BTCs. So I have my 10 BTCs back.

4. I now have 400 LTCs on the LTC-x fork which I'm ready to dump whenever it hits an exchange.

This is too exploitable.

No, it's not.

Your wallet and Cryptsy will be on the same hardfork at the same block, so you will end up with either 400 LTC or 10 BTC.
If Cryptsy isn't on the hardfork, then we didn't get all the big exchanges on the hardfork and there will be no hardfork.

As I said before, the hardfork is the easiest part of the project. It has been done before with other coins, changing specifications and/or algorithm.
Getting everyone over to the new algorithm is our challenge.

Yes, it's not doable really. Because it will literally require EVERYONE on board to work, otherwise it won't work. If I can buy LTC-scrypts prior to the fork and find even one exchange to sell them back after the fork, then I can have free LTCs for dumping on the LTC-x11 fork. And chances are there will be more than one exchange where I can sell back scrypt LTCs (actually chances are 95-100% of the exchanges will still operate with scrypt LTC).

The probability of every single BTC/LTC exchange to go with the LTC-x11 plan is so remote that it's not even funny. And with that probability goes away the chance to successfully do what you want to do.

This escalates from a democracy 51% percent, to a unanimous decision of 100% agreement (impossible).

No, you can't.

Ok, we'll see. I'll buy a few LTCs for dumping on the LTC-x fork and see who's right. Although what I'm mostly worried about is that not a single exchange will actually buy my cloned LTC-x's rather than not finding a single exchange to sell my scrypt LTCs.

So this will be a new coin, like HiroCoin? LitecoinX11 (LTX) for example?

Said the guy who invested into NXT coin.
Why invest into NXT if you are not here for money?

French hypocrisy, i know it because i'm french ;)

I think it will have the opposite effect, as it will prove that something like that is not doable.

It escalated from a democracy/51% situation to 100%-total-consensus-needed-to-succeed.

If even 1 exchange declines to shift, the LTC-x network will be vulnerable to an enormous dumping attack with cloned LTCs.

just create "LTCx11", at least you'd have your own coin

Agreed, as this is not from the official devs it will create confusion and divide the camps in LTC. The poll being 60/30 is still a major difference.

Why are people willing to support an idea by someone hiding behind somebody else's forum account?

They say that they are 'Hero' members which doesn't actually provide for anything of substance as, AFAIK, there are a number of different factors that go towards whether someone is granted that label and, besides which, why the fuck should we even believe that claim anyway?

If they are willing to lie about who they are, why should we then accept their claims as to their motivation being, supposedly, 'for the good of the community'? This isn't Gotham and they're not Batman.

FUD is piled up in stinking heaps all over this community on a regular basis, solely so that somebody, somewhere, can scalp somebody somewhere else and make off like a bandit. Why are so many people apparently willing to click 'you go girl' to the OP's vote when the OP isn't even willing to be honest about who they are and what's in it for them?

We complain vociferously, and rightly so, about the lying scumbag politcos and banksters, yet are willing to go face down and ass up for some anonymous shill with fancy X11 LTC icons and a big speech about how they're gonna do us this real big favour?


Shit, no wonder we're frequently considered to be a joke community of immature geeks playing at money.

How do you know ?

http://scienceofnaturalgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/why_so_serious__by_tyrite.jpg

Because if anybody wants to believe the OP is Batman, I've got a Nigerian Prince that wants to offer them an amazing scheme that will get them rich, and quick.

I m all for decentralized hashing power. What is the innovation of litecoin if not scrypt? Why people just rushed into it if not for being ASIC resistant?

But

- X11 is just another algo not famous enough to have his own ASIC. (btw my GPUs and me love X11, i will only mine it while waiting for something better)

- Hostile hardforking? I really don t think this is doable. You don t need the majority of the community to support this. You need all of it! Imagine an exchange doesnt support it. My understanding is that people who owns litecoin before the hardfork would be able to double spent it for bitcoins. Surely a good investment ;)

- People need TRUST. If we want this sytem to succeed, trust is the way. Let free market play his role. I don t know why people could think that ASIC will lead the price to rise. On the contrary, i understand very well why it should plummet.


Be smart, and sell your litecoin. Every thing is open source as you have stated. There is a lot of other good coins on the rise which implement ASIC resistant algo. And since you are confortable with switching the algo for a live coin, i will submit this idea for a new coin.

Myriad got it right. Parallelized algos are a very good security for the network. You cannot have ASICs for all algos ( by now ), and so 51% of the hashing power will be very hard to obtain. If there is a flaw in one of the algo, it s just 20% of the hashing power.
While we cannot say for sure that a specific algo is ASIC proof, we know for sure that adaptability is ASIC proof. If we can modify the POW algo when we want, surely the manufacturers will stop making them.

So someone could implement the myriad's system with the possibility to adjust the share of every algo. When you want to harkfork, it s much simpler and smoother. The part of the old algo will decrease slowly and the part for the new algo will increase slowly until it reaches the target share of hashing power. This is not diruptive and just knowing that it is possible, manufacturers will stop making ASICs.

This is just an idea. I would love coding it but i m afraid that i don t have the skills for it. Hope you have!

With either way you choose, i wish you luck. But be smart!

I like litecoin, let's hardfork it lol

Great idea to keep LTC decentralized, X11 is a good candidate. There's a lot of more power efficient algos than Scrypt and Scrypt-N only is ASIC resistant but GPU hostile. Heavy, Blake, Fugue, INK and others are also a consideration too.

You do realize this is a hostile action towards Litecoin? The official devs aren't supporting this, nor is the whole community. They are trying to take over Litecoin and potentially damage the coin by splintering the litecoin community. Maybe after a few months litecoin isn't worth a nickle due to all the confusion being created by this.

Glad someone will make centralized decisions like rule changes meant to scare people.  That inspires much confidence in the anonymous leadership.

Firstly I am surprised that coblee and wtogami even bother to post in this thread as it gives it more credibility then it deserves.

Kinda of a wasted argument here as without a doubt this half baked idea by a bunch (if there even is that many) of anon wannabe noobs aint going to happen.

Having said that I am in favor of litcoin changing its algorithm to avoid asics, hell it should of done that to avoid GPU, but again that is not going to happen......(the greater concern here is both sides of that debate revolve around fiat rather then cryptos).

The problem is POW and all it flavors, no matter what you do is gameable, one of the reason satoshi was only going to use it as a short term solution (I guess along with microtransactions, fees and hell even him that got lost along the way).

All cryptocurrencies to date have been centralised, something there is no way to avoid while the software/blockchain needs maintenance, thats just the reality of it.

If you intend to destroy something, and in the process leave people who invested $ with empty pockets, you have to stay anonymous, or you will have to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life, no?

. . .buy, sell, trade, exchange or use in any fashion that might go some way towards Litecoin actually succeeding as a currency.


Do you get where this is going yet?

Some anonymous twonk is declaring that they're gonna throw their toys from the pram and fuck about with Litecoin *any* time they choose to because it's, like, wayyy tooo mainstream man, so who in their right mind would risk exposing their business dealings to that sort of volatile risk?

Great job guys, truly inspirational.

Either come out and say who you are and present a rational, evidence based, challenge to the position held by the LTC Devs, or you're just some asshat trying to scam the community.

ASICs? The 1% will have 99%...

https://ecent.charityminingpools.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=pool

http://picadump.com/pictures/bitcoin/asic.png




http://picadump.com/pictures/bitcoin/chn.png




http://picadump.com/pictures/bitcoin/blitz.png

Here is why not:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

The one selling point of LTC (ASIC resistance) is now moot. That was my solitary personal reason for involvement in LTC a few years ago, and I'd imagine many others too. I quickly dumped once that was no longer true. Why else would I want to support a coin which offers no tangible benefit over BTC, when I'm a believer in crypto and think BTC needs total support it can get in this early days.?  why would anyone?

LTC would not have gained a following if it didn't offer a potential diversification and safe haven from the inevitable centralisation of mining suppliers. And now the future for it is even worse, LTC only serves to give fragmentation and dilution to a fragile market which is in infancy.

So the Gold rush saga can repeat itself, leaving those at the top rich and many bagholders at the bottom losing out that brought up on the ridiculous hype..
Some people missed the BTC train, no problem they thought, the LTC one will be around in an hour, we'll catch that
These guys were told there would be a moon, but they'll be bitterly dissapointed and eventually no matter how many times they try to drum up morale by posting arise chikun, hold spartans they card tower will have to collapse.

People are imagining 10x, 100x gains? Behave yourself. Do you think BTC will sit languishing at 6bil mkt cap while LTC crawls up to 3bil, to 30bil?

The big money orchestrated the recent run-ups (After they had brought in nicely) with direct insider knowledge of the future developments, knowing full well the greedy miners just LOVE to buy the latest and greatest shovels for 3 gold coins, even if it will only dig back 2. (no problem, they can sell it back on for 2 after it's outlived it's usefullness) or greater fool theory in action
And so this generates a  sort of sunk-cost fallacy which some will mistake for a functioning ecosystem, except the real infrasctuture for LTC is not in place and will be competing rather than complimenting btc

Except while small miners who have brought devices at retail prices with huge markets are very concerned with the prices, electricity costs, breaking even etc
the big mining ops can sell on dark-pools in bulk or direct to exchange, without so much huge concerns over the price, they paid off all nre and production long ago.
one obvious path is LTC > BTC, with the effects on the market pretty clear.


community is voting to change pOW scheme, yet litecoin-devs ignore markets requests. A bad sign.

Democracy on Litecointalk.org? Lock the topic when unwanted voices are heard:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.135

lol who said any of this was a democracy?


but anyways it was locked because it was a sticky thread the same discussion is still underway in the general topic section of the same forum.

good idea

No, it is a good sign that, rather than the lowest-common-denominator populist political shenanigans we currently get, whereby facts are attempted to be proven by general consensus(!), we have the notion of a meritocracy of ideas.

Basically it's this, you don't get to stir the pot by whipping the herd into a feeding frenzy around the idea you want to see implemented, solely because you want it implemented for your own reason, no, you have to actually present evidence-based reasoning that asserts a solid case for the implementation you wish to see. The OP has had his assertions successfully challenged by the original Dev, there appears to be little else in Mr Mysterious' locker on this topic.

Says the guy who demands we all listen to him while he hides underneath some other saps petticoat. Tell me again why you're entitled to deceive?

They're the same thing. Populist politics is attempt to manufacture consent by way of hot-button topics used as smoke-and-mirrors for gaining general consensus in order to achieve your own goals.

Its dishonest. A bit like the OP really. Actually, a lot like the OP, someone who is hiding behind the community's 'best interests', as well as someone else's forum account, in order to press for their own agenda under the guise of a hot-button topic being able to stir the clickerati into action.

"Ooh, yes, that sounds like something I want given the 7 seconds I have considered it, I shall vote yes with a little move of my mouse and a swift click, job done. Who did you say you were again? Oh, you didn't."

I really thought that thread was a joke, preparing a brilliant April fool prank. Obviously i was wrong.

So Op, you really want to hard fork Litecoin? be my guest, do it. One condition, don't use the word "Litecoin" in the coin naming. By the way, why choosing Litecoin? and not Bitcoin directly? lack of ambition?

In all case, if you ban the ASIC what about the Botnet?


 :-*  :P :-* :P


So it's the vendors fault not ASIC fault.

Why not Scrypt-N?

It is much more popular and will drive more massive adoption I think.

Well, guys, why so dramatic statements - can't we simply agreed with the will of 51% and go ahead for LTC good?
If people will choose to change for X11 good, if not we stay with scrypt.

I was witnessing disccussion about possible attack using time wrap by BCX and after few days of strong conversation booth parts agreed how to fix this problem - and BCX stated - that attacking AUR was never his intention.
Can we follow this way of solving conflicts?



As well I'm thinking if this attempt is possible at all - if KNC or Alpha are already deployed their ASICminers for "test" mining, obviously they will stand on ASIC-forward side. Will you find enough hashpower?

 ASICs are bad. That's the pure and simple truth (at least from my point of view). Let me explain why.
 When I say this, I am referring to the beasts which are able to pull out huge amounts of hashpower and cost almost as much as a car or a small apartment, not the things that you carry in your pocket. Almost everyone is able to afford the little ones and, honestly, they probably should get a couple instead of GPUs, because of the lower power consumption (we should all care about this issue). This is a good thing, but this is where it all ends, with the small, affordable ASICs.
 When we begin to talk about pieces of dedicated hardware that cost upwards of 2000$ / piece, the pros end and the cons come into play. Not everyone can afford such hardware, because of this, the decentralization is being fucked right in the ass. Wasn't this one of the main reasons why the bitcoin was invented?
 When the first ASICs appeared, the ones who made enough money mining bitcoins rushed to buy them, while the ones who couldn't afford them looked for something different (scrypt) to mine. Bitcoin still stands because it is THE bitcoin. IT was here first and everything that came after was build in it's image.
 Currently it makes no sense to mine Bitcoins with GPUs, regardless of how many you have. This will happen very soon with all Scrypt coins too. People with GPUs will stop mining Scrypt and will look for other algos. The value of the LTC will plummet and it will never recover, because it is, at it's best, a copy of the bitcoin, which failed to keep up to it's purpose - ASIC RESISTANCE.
 The most important thing that you all should understand is that it is not the LTC (or any other coin like it) that fails, but the algorithm itself. SCRYPT is about to die and, it will take with it every coin that keeps using it, because all of them are just copies of an original idea that fails to work as intended. And like scrypt, so will die each and every other algorithm for which dedicated hardware is created.
 If you consider that you are backing up LTC by rejecting this hardfork, you are either fucking retarded, or have a pre-ordered scrypt asic on the way. Either way, bad news for you: you are only pushing the coin further to it's death.
 I have (partially) read the official response from the LTC dev team and I have only one thing to say: Spineless cowards. Nothing great comes without risk, and you are refusing to take any. Keep this up and you will loose everything anyway.
 I'm not saying that X11 is the answer. I know to little about it from the programming point of view, to be able to say if it will or not provide an answer to the ASIC problem, but it is so much more friendly towards the hardware, and this is the main reason why I love it.
 With this being said, I hope that this fork will be successful, and I wish the best of luck in their endeavors to the people who are supporting it.

There were other topics opened, discussing the same problem.

This is your post:


You are a liar. You are A team of (?) .
Team of Litecoin developers and supporters already gave us their point of view on ASICs and hardfork, well thought through and well argumented. Anyone can and should read it here: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0


And this are your "arguments".

Noone knows who you are, what is your background, your true intentions, your programming knowledge, basicly nothing. How you, a team of supporters and developers, intend to support LTC in the future and are u up to the task  (we know current DEV team is as they proved themselfs )? You may as well be random guy who never vrote one line of code in his life.

And funny thing is, there are still idiots out there willing to support you, despite all of that. I would say good reflections of what kind of people stand behind you.

And do votes really reflect LTC (and by LTC i dont mean GPU) community opinion?

I think for majority of community its no brainer (those that are not braindead) who to support, you or current dev team.

 

Well mate, don't forget about 51% will. LTC was created as an answer for ASIC coming to BTC. Decentralized hashpower this is what we should stick to. Not to profit of ASIC companies

+1

Litecoin is nothing if ASICs start mining it. It won't see the end of this year.

Dont forget about all those people that BOUGHT LTC as investment, and dont know anything about mining, hardfork, GPUs, CPUs, ASICs, etc...

Quote from original post on LTCtalk from coblee:


What is the will of investors?

People act like LTC = GPUs. Its not.

I smell retard.

I haven't read through all the pages nor am i paticularly savvy as far as the technical workings of the different algos..  But has it been
suggested and is it possible to, instead of just forking off into x11 (or w/e algo), to go multi-algo ala myriadcoin?

Yourself, i'd say.

It doesn't matter what algo switches to as long as there are no ASICs for that algo. As I previously mentioned, ASICs will destroy Litecoin. Do not believe the retards that tell you otherwise. The have Scrypt ASICs pre-ordered and are currently shitting their pants.