Bitcoin Forum

Hi all,

This is my first post here and I am not sure where else to denounce this, Rollbit has just banned and wiped out my account with $64K on it. They argue that this is because I am in breach of their ToS, as I have logged in on an "unauthorised location".

I have been using Rollbit for a long time and I signed up in Luxembourg, the country which I live in. I am originally from Spain and use a Spanish phone data provider, which consequently shows my location as Spain. However, I have never received or been prompted a popup saying that I was connecting from a restricted location. So I want to clarify that I have never knowingly breached the terms. I also understood I was adhering to the rules, given, as I say, I was connecting from Luxembourg, where I live. Therefore it came at great surprise for me when this is all of a sudden an issue.

I must point out that I have been making deposits and withdrawals for over a year now without any issues, it was only when I won considerably when suddenly they came up with this issue, given that I was getting no pop up or prompt that logging in from Spain will result in my account being completely wiped.

All I am asking at this point is that they allow me to fully KYC if necessary, to prove that the above is true and I do in fact reside in Luxembourg (authorised location), so that they will let me withdraw my funds and move on.

I would really appreciate if anyone can provide any help on this, and if someone knows any lawyer I can contact to help me with this, as this is completely illegal.

Thank you very much

Even if you are connecting from a restricted area, I think the casino should not just freeze your account but freeze it in a way you will only be able to withdraw the amount that you deposited. But all money won would be removed and only your deposit will be given you.

You were using a VPN to connect and set the location to Spain? This is one thing that you should avoid on gambling sites. After you check the restricted areas from the ToS and your country is among, no need to use VPN.

If you are telling the truth, I hope Rollbit will be able to solve this in a way that will favour you and give you your money, including the money that you won.

This is their official account on this forum that you can send message to: Rollbitcom (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3067300)

Also we are expecting clarification from Rollbit on this thread.

just curious, when you say you registered and live in Luxembourg, do you mean that you are permanently living there or just for a couple of months or a year?

there was a similar case before posted here on the forum(not the same but similar) but I am not sure if the casino that the gambler has an issue with is also with Rollbit. anyway, if I remember correctly holydarkness(a forum member) helped the user get his issue resolved. I'll try and send him a PM regarding your case, perhaps he can help you too but there is no guarantee whether your case with Rollbit will be resolved.

would you mind posting any screenshots supporting your claims? it would really help forum members believe whether your case is legitimate or not.

if OP wants to contact their forum representative, he should contact Rollbit Razer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3261248), he is usually the one who handles issues like this on the forum.

Well if you officially live in LUX and can prove it I don't see any way rollbit can get through with this.

They only deny players access if they are a resident of the banned countries.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/11/cJfw3.png

Since you are a resident in LUX this claim made by them should have no merit.
But I already know we will see some other things in this thread later on, as it always does. Hopefully you can show them some rental agreement or job contract or whatever from where you live. Without that I have a feeling they will do everything they can to not pay. Problem always come up when people win and actually try to withdraw.
Depositing and losing is not an issue, even if you are from a banned region, we have seen that several times here.

Why you would use a Spanish provider while not living there anymore is beyond me though. It must be much more expensive than using a local one.

Exactly. If OP can also prove this - especially with this amount in dispute - a visit to a lawyer is definitely advisable ... unless of course - as is almost always the case here in Scam Accusation - there are other reasons that would justify a ban. Unfortunately, this often starts with common multi-accounting.

So if you are sure OP that there can be no other reasons why Rollbit is blocking you, I would contact Rollbit again and ask for clarification, stating that you would otherwise hand the case over to a lawyer.

Thank you for inviting me and bringing this to my attention.

---

OP, like what acroman said above, I think we need more context here. Just to clarify one thing that I don't quite sure I grasp correctly, by living in [being the resident of] LUX, were you trying to say that you're currently staying for a short time in LUX, like for a vacation or are you living in semi-permanent to a permanent status in LUX, whether it's from residency permit or a dual citizenship? Like AHOYBRAUSE's curiosity, I can't comprehend the reason of using Spanish mobile data if you've been or are planning to stay for extended period in LUX.

Let's see if I can get this one sorted out by persuading Rollbit to re-open your case and clarify this whole residency situation.

Oh, if you can drop me your rollbit's UID, either here or through PM, that might help Razer to zeroing into your issue.

Rollbit should geo block if they don’t allow customers from certain jurisdictions. Pay the OP.

Thanks for posting this here.

OP has been given a detailed response about this in 3 seperate locations today. First via our support, then via my X DMs and finally via a public response (https://x.com/Razer_Rollbit/status/1800491365488275488) to a Tweet made by OP.

OP had their deposit returned (including an extra $1,357.41) and account closed after their own admission of playing from Spain and the UK. We are prohibited from accepting players from these regions, as per the terms of our license.

OP claims to be residing in Luxembourg, but our data does not support this, nor does it negate the fact that they've been playing from restricted regions.

I ran a query that looks at every request we've had from their player account. From the 1,872 unique IP addresses, here is the breakdown:
Spain: 1,420 (75.85%)
United Kingdom: 442 (23.61%)
Other (mostly attributed to VPN activity): 0.54%

Out of all 1,872 unique addresses, not one is from Luxembourg.

Furthermore, OP would have seen a warning stating they are connecting from a restricted region upon each connection from Spain or the UK.

Hi Razer, thank you for addressing this. I am not sure if OP will reply here in time to catch you up while you're still online. In case he didn't, OP reached to me with a little bit more details about his living arrangement [he said he'll address this in details publicly later, so I think I didn't breach the private nature of PM by sharing this] and that he's been in LUX for about two years.

If it's not too much of a trouble, is it possible to allow OP to do another verification? Given he's been staying for couple of years, I believe Luxembourg will need him to have a residency permit. I think a video verification with him providing his Spain's govt. issued ID and his residency permit [and/or its equivalence] is enough to verify and to be sure that he's indeed from Spain and currently living in LUX.

---

And OP, I hope you can clarify how can your IP came out to be from UK for about one-fourth of the time.

edit- you addressed and seems you are right.

Thank you for your replies

I am originally Spanish and connect to Rollbit via my phone (with a Spanish provider), therefore, upon checking with Razor, it seems that my connections where being logged as from Spain. I did not know this at the time and I did not get any prompt that would indicate otherwise (no prompt/pop-up that indicated I was connecting from an unauthorised region).

After talking with support and Razer, they said that as I already have withdrawn more than I deposited, I should be happy with the outcome (I have been using the site for over a year now). However, this is not okay, as my winnings far exceed this and I wasnt made aware at any point that I was breaching the terms of service.

They specify on their ToS that you must not sign up if you are are resident of any of the countries listed, but they have not allowed me to show that I am a resident in Luxembourg.

Just to clarify,  I live and work in Luxembourg. But I still hold my Spanish phone as it is a family plan and given that in Europe the data is applicable throughout (I use the same plan without limitations), it is cheaper than buying a new phone line in Luxembourg.

I simply dont undestand why they wont let me KYC to prove that I am indeed a resident in LUX (live permanently here).

Thank you very much, I have tried to will message them directly as well, but they have blocked the messages from newbies.

Thank you for the clarification.

OP's statement that he uses a Spanish mobile network in Luxembourg does indeed sound very strange.
OP could of course present other documents such as a residence permit, rental contract or registration certificate to prove that he is actually in Luxembourg. However, this raises the question of whether Rollbit would even accept such documents as proof?

Can you explain to us about their findings of UK IP address? And I assume, suppose Razer agreed to allow another KYC, you're willing to do as I suggested above and are able to provide such proof? Live video call and providing Spanish govt ID and Luxembourg residency permit, and other supporting document that they deemed necessary?

I have just seen this reply. Through the time I have been on Rollbit I have made many deposits and withdrawals, and not once has the issue of my location been an issue. Recently, I managed to make some gains and wanted to withdraw them, and suddenly the account is wiped clean and deleted? $64k of my earnings are completely wiped suddenly?

I understand that your data does not support me living in Luxembourg as I explain on my initial post, I connect on the phone with my mobile data. The connections from the UK come as I work there frequently (and for work purposes I have had to purchase a UK SIM as it is required). When connecting from LUX (which I see from the data it registers as Spain given the mobile data), not ONCE did I see the prompt of being connected to a restricted region.

As for why I still use the phone family plan I had in Spain, it is way cheaper, as we get free roaming in the Schengen area (we pay the same fare throughout Europe), therefore it is a cheaper and more convenient option.

All I ask is the chance to prove that this is true, I can facilitate my contract, my rent agreement, my bank details - I just want to be able to withdraw the amount that I earned. Please let me complete a full KYC process to prove that what I say is true.

File a complaint with Ask Gamblers or ThePogg. They are two that seem to be fair.

Where has there been an "own admission of playing from Spain and the UK" ? @OP, did you ever do that? If so there is nothing that can be done here I guess.
BUT, actually the rules state players residing in the banned regions are prohibited to play. He is not residing there as he says. Also residing is not visiting. He explained the Spanish IPs.
Anyway, returning the 1400$ deposit and keeping 64k is quite an easy way out, isn't it?

By the way, why has ne never been asked for KYC or been addressed about his IP before if there are soooo many Spanish IPs???
I can tell you why, because he was depositing and losing, right? No problem using a Sanish IP to lose. You just don't like paying wins.

"OP claims to be residing in Luxembourg" , if you don't believe him then do KYC and let him prove it.

I never admitted to play from Spain and the UK, I was barely explaining why the IP ping showed Spain and the UK respectively. As you point out, the fact that my IP was showing Spain or the UK was never flagged to me and I never received a warning or pop-up for this, therefore, how was I supposed to know that my pings where in fact from the country my SIM is from and not from LUX where I was in? This could easily be settled by completing KYC, and as I stated before I am happy to provide all the documentation deemed necessary, including LUX resident permit, Spanish ID document, employment contract, rent agreement, etc.

Thank you, will also bring this up with Ask Gamblers and ThePogg, could you provide further details on this on PM by any chance? @Rating Place

Umm... one question, have you file the complaint to any of the arbitrator?

By the way, ThePogg has been rebranded to casinoreviews (https://casinoreviews.com/), and I honestly don't know whether the rebranding affect their mediation method or not, but past history told me that they're less transparent than other mediator. Not in a sense that they're worse or better than other mediator, I don't have enough reference to compare their efficiency to other arbitrators, simply just less transparent. Unless I remember things wrongly, they didn't provide a thread-like page that's open for public to read.

Umm... one question, have you file the complaint to any of the arbitrator?

By the way, ThePogg has been rebranded to casinoreviews (https://casinoreviews.com/), and I honestly don't know whether the rebranding affect their mediation method or not, but past history told me that they're less transparent than other mediator. Not in a sense that they're worse or better than other mediator, I don't have enough reference to compare their efficiency to other arbitrators, simply just less transparent. Unless I remember things wrongly, they didn't provide a thread-like page that's open for public to read.
[/quote]

I have not filed any complaint yet, not sure what the process is to be honest, but will start looking for legal counsel on my end as wiping my account and keeping my funds without letting me KYC is completely illegal from what I have read.

Whether you'd like to have an arbitrator to get into your case or try to solve it through the forum is completely up to you, but understand that once you proceed with an arbitrator, Rollbit has the full right to only answer you there and ignore other means of resolution attempt.

If you want to proceed with an arbitrator though... did your bets happen to be sportsbetting related or they're purely casino games? I ask because far as I know, Rollbit is only on CasinoGuru, and CG does not handle cases that are sport-betting related; other than that, you have to escalate to their licensor.

IMO - @Rollbit Razer needs to see your complaint and requests regarding this to make things fair. I haven't seen any responses so far other than the above - but giving you the option to defend yourself like proving you're not playing from Spain or England makes sense.

Be patient and wait - but first, have you received this one in your wallet?

It seems from communications with the Rollbit support team that I have no choice but to take legal action. Although of course my preferred option would be to resolve this amicably through the forum, as I cannot see any good reason for the Rollbit team not to KYC my account so I can withdraw the funds.

Also wanted to address Razer´s post directly.

Reading through the posts here, I have seen a couple of similar cases in which users were connecting from restricted regions and ultimately got their accounts paid out. I believe my case to be much clearer, given that I actually reside in an unrestricted region and can prove it if given the chance to complete a full KYC.

1. When logging in from LUX (using my Spanish phone data), I did not receive any indication that I was actually pinging from Spain, therefore, there was no way I could know that this was in breach of the ToS.

2. I am a LUX resident, and as such, I should be compliant with the ToS as they specify that you need to be a resident of that country. To this effect, I can provide my Spanish ID, my LUX resident permit, my rent agreement and my employment contract if necessary.

3. If using my Spanish data provider resulted in me connecting from a restricted region as you say, I should have been notified to this effect and not been allowed to make any deposits/withdrawals. I understood there was no issue given that I was in LUX, without knowing that my phone was pinging from Spain (this should have been flagged to me).

Please let me complete the KYC to prove that what I say is the truth and allow me to withdraw my funds.

Yes, i received it the day before they closed my account.

OP, to clarify one thing that I forgot to made a follow up yesterday when inquiring about UK IP address. As you explained that you have to have UK number because you work there often, did you ever play when you're in UK soil?

I dont think I ever did, I frequently left the UK SIM active accidentally when travelling back to LUX (maybe for 1-2 days at a time without noticing) - as the data is also usable without extra charge throughout Europe (although it is more expensive than the Spanish one).

If you can be sure whether you never accessed Rollbit from when you're staying in the UK during your work-related visits, that'll be very neat. UK is also one of the restricted territories for Rollbit... though I guess there is no sure way to prove that you never accessed from UK, be it from rollbit's side of from yours.

I am certain I never played on the site while in the UK, but as you say I am not sure how I could prove this.

However, don´t you think that proving that I am a LUX resident (and full time employee there) will solve the case here? I understand their argument for keeping the funds is that I knowingly was in breach of ToS, which is completely untrue.

I do think that it'll be fair if they allows for an enhanced KYC to confirm your current residency, especially as you've given your consent to undergo it. Hence my previous posts regarding the matter.

Razer was online a few days after he made his explanation, but perhaps that was for a fleeting moment and he can't address your issue yet. I'll try to reach him again after a couple of days if the silence remains.

I know that Rollbit said that they goe block but why aren't they banning VPN use?

This is a classic case of casino using tricks to confisticate fair winnings. OP does not reside in unrestricted country and he is willing to go through KYC, that alone shows OP''s honesty while casino's miles away. From what I seen so far OP did not abuse any bonus or gained any edge so;
Stop this 'Crypto Gambling Wild West Shit Show' (coined by efialtis) and pay the man his money.

Yeah right, you just registered to post here, makes perfect "sense". Didn't know we are in the shilling business now.
Why even bother making this post.

There are legitimate questions being asked before but yet the rollbit rep doesn't bother to follow up to his yet another useless reply. "refunded the deposit" -> nothing arrived. Outlandish claims -> nothing to back it back and doesn't even bother to offer KYC.
Depositing and playing was no problem with endless "banned IPs" but now that the player won something there is a problem. Shady as always, nothing new from rollbit.

Not sure why you deleted your post, but to answer your question about an attempt to circumvent KYC by having a friend to complete them, you can rest assured that casinos aren't born yesterday, they have ways to validate whether the user in front of them during the video call is indeed the player or someone else posing as them. It's proven on a past case. So, if Rollbit agrees to a video verification to settle this matter, that would be a quite insignificant issue.

I received an email from the compliance team at Rollbit and wanted to address it here, please see below the full email.

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/06/23/hNv2f.png

1. The point they make about the data roaming is untrue, as I have been investigating following my issue with Rollbit. I contacted my phone service provider and they confirm that when I use my phone data abroad (within Europe), my IP will show as Spain as they are the ones that are providing the service (I am not an expert so I am not able to explain how this works precisely.

2. I have never used a VPN to connect to the site, and it would be completely illogical for me to use one to connect from a restricted region.

3. I told the support team that I was residing in the UK as I wanted them to release my funds without having to KYC, I know it is a mistake on my part and I should have agreed to KYC straight away. I am in the process of moving to the UK for work reasons, but I am still living in Luxembourg to this date. I dont think the circumstances change nonetheless, as I was a Luxembourg resident when opening my account and throughout the whole period of using it. I then agreed to complete KYC once the support team communicated to me that they have completely wiped my account and would be keeping my $64k of winnings (I am finalising the visa process for the UK and will be moving there).

4. I have to inform myself more on the matter, but it is illegal to keep my funds on the claim that they "believe it is extremely unlikely" that I am a Luxembourg resident, when they wont even let me prove that I am.

5. I think it is completely illogical that a Casino can allow you to deposit and withdraw for 2 years without any issues (I deposited and withdrew around $60k), but once my balance turned positive, I am a danger to their Casino license? I have never been in breach of ToS and have never been made aware if I was. Rollbit claims that I should have received a pop-up notifying me that I was accessing from a restricted region, but I never received any such communication.

6. I am able to prove that throughout my time in the site I was residing in Luxembourg and that I currently still live there (although will be moving soon), and under no Terms and Conditions does it say that they reserve the right to keep your funds arbitrarily based on their opinion of something being "extremely unlikely". I believe Rollbit wants to now operate as a more reputable casino (seeking license in the UK?), but things like this bring their reputation to the ground.

7. I am not sure what my options are at this point, and would really appreciate your help/input

 

I actually also thought about this roaming situation, meaning that even the provider is in country X but since you will use a local network the IP should change to a local one, not the for example Spanish one.
But yet, I am no specialist about that ( and neither is rollbit ) so we should't come to conclusions because of that. Maybe you can get a written statement from your provider, guess that would be sufficient proof.

Since you played and won in LUX (at least you say so) the moving to London situation is irrelevant. You say your bets came from being in LUX, moving to London bans you from future action on the site, but obviously not for past.

Number 5 is the most important one. They didn't have issues playing with them having loss (as usual), just when you are in profit they suddenly discover "1,872 unique IP addresses" . Sounds legit.

So their system didn't flag your account for unrestricted access for IP from:

"Spain: 1,420 (75.85%)
United Kingdom: 442 (23.61%)"

for such a long time while you were accumulating loss after loss, but now it does. Awesome detection system. Sounds very sus to me tbh.

But wouldn't your IP show that you're in Luxembourg even if you're using a Spanish data provider? So I don't think that there's something more here than you let on. I think that you're going to need to contest this problem, contact the supports that they've got and provide the necessary evidence to make sure that you're not messing up big time on this one. $64k is no joke and it's not something that any casino should be able to wipe out that quick, that is still money after all.

You basically just repeated what I wrote before you.  ::)

@OP: Get the documentation from your internet provider. Rollbit can't just ignore that. They also can't ignore documented facts of you living in LUX.
Rules clearly state that you are not allowed if you reside in Spain or the UK, since you are registered in LUX (which you need to prove) you don't reside in the banned countries, worst case scenario you are visiting there, which is not in violation of any rules on the site.

It's also hilarious how Razer is coming here, making some bold statements without even acknowledging any possibilities ( KYC was offered and ignored by him ), just the same way this person always handles other cases. Terrible representation for a gambling site.

AHOYBRAUSE gave a very nice option to provide an evidence here: proof of correspondencies with your mobile phone provider, explaining that your IP will remains show as Spain though you accessed them from LUX.

Far as I can gather, there is a small chance that your mobile data will still show you accessing from Spain, and under "roam like at home (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/attachment/493762/Roam%20Like%20at%20Home%2025%20FAQs%20for%20consumers.pdf)" EU policy, you can [to an extent] still use your old provider and charged the same rate. However, it is more likely (https://forums.redflagdeals.com/ip-address-when-using-roam-like-home-fido-rogers-2565513/) that your IP address will show as the local area instead of keep showing Spain.

Also, roam like at home [at least as far as I interpret it] applies if you travel, i.e. you spend your time at short time across EU countries compared to the one where you originated from. If you stays for extended period in LUX, as how your narrative tell us so far, you'll be severely limited.

I was pretty sure that your IP address would be the one assigned by the local network of the country you are accessing the internet from. Based on that, I thought Rollbit was right in what they stated here (https://talkimg.com/images/2024/06/23/hNv2f.png). Since I am not an expert, of course, and neither is GPT, I still decided to ask it.

The reply below is the information I received from the following prompt:
If I use a Spanish mobile data provider but use roaming in Luxembourg, what IP address will I have? Will it be an IP of my Spanish provider or a local IP in Luxembourg?

GPT response:


Judging by this information, Rollbit is wrong unless we are talking about "Localized Roaming."
@Petermario can we see the official reply you received from your Spanish data provider? It's probably going to be in Spanish and we might need the help of a trusted Spanish Bitcointalk user to help us out.  

What remains problematic is you stating that you moved to the UK and that you reside there. It complicated an already complex case.

I think we can rely on Lens for the translation, it rarely let me down on translating screenshots that's written in other language when I try to understand the context of a case in the past, though what it gave are usually short sentences and I think I have yet to try to run it on long paragraphs.

If Lens failed to help us though, I believe I can ask one or two members who I trust and speaks Spanish to help us.

Lens should do it. I have used it in the past to translate product descriptions and recipes from packages in foreign languages. But to make things easier, @Petermario please post both the screenshot of your communication with your mobile data provider but also copy-paste the text here so we can take advantage of Google Translate as well.

Please see below screenshots of the communication with Vodafone (my phone supplier). It is in Spanish but they say that you are a sign a local IP (Spanish) when roaming data abroad. (see as well the copied text in Spanish)

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/25/hfLxv.jpeg

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/25/hf4OI.jpeg

"Hola, te atiende Mirelys, asesora de tu equipo Vodafone Empresa. Con respecto a tu consulta te informo, que cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea, se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen. Ha sido un verdadero placer atenderte a través de nuestro canal. Si tienes alguna consulta más aquí nos tienes a tu entera disposición para ayudarte. Un saludo y esperamos que pases un magnifico día"

"Cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea (UE), se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen, en este caso Española."

I also asked for an email to be sent to me to confirm this, but she said that it was not necessary (or that they ever to this). If needed, I could probably phone them up and get them to issue me an official statement?

I am afraid you need more than a screenshot of a chat to prove that. Better would be at least an email from their official support. Much better of course would a real letter, just tell them it's of high importance for you. Since you are a customer they really should do that and not just say "it was not necessary".

A chat can easily be faked and I already know rollbit would not be willing to accept a chat screenshot, trust me.

I don’t think it matters what the OP supplies at this point. No way Rollbit is shelling out $64k. The rest is just for show.

How exactly is what OP supplies doesn't matter at this point? If OP can prove --beyond reasonable doubt and all-- that he's the victim here and he did nothing wrong, either Rollbit can and should pay them or people should consider Rollbit as rather suspicious. This is how this board works: proof.

---

OP, I'll try to bring this matter once again to Razer, it'll be nice if you can provide us what AHOYBRAUSE asked. I'll ping Razer once you attach a screenshot [or a photo of that official letter] here.

I am talking to them to try to get an official communication. Will an email from them suffice do you think? In the meantime, they answered again on the matyer this morning on the chat (see below extract), I have asked them to provide the same by email.

" Hola, te atiende David, asesor de tu equipo Vodafone Empresa.
Cuando te encuentras en roaming (itinerancia) y te conectas a una red móvil con tu tarjeta SIM de la Unión Europea (UE) mientras viajas al extranjero dentro de la UE, tu dirección IP depende tanto del proveedor de origen como del proveedor de itinerancia. Sin embargo, en la mayoría de los casos dentro de la UE/EEE, el tráfico de red se encamina a través de tu proveedor de origen. A efectos de geolocalización, parecerá que estás en tu país de origen. Esto significa que, aunque estés en otro país, tu dirección IP se asignará desde tu país de origen.
Si deseas verificar la geolocalización de tu dirección IP actual, puedes utilizar herramientas en línea como “Cuál es mi IP” o “IP Location”. Simplemente ingresa tu dirección IP y podrás ver detalles como la latitud, longitud, ciudad, región y país asociados a ella.
En este canal solo le damos la información de la que disponemos, no podemos profundizar técnicamente en cómo funciona la IP en el extranjero, si quiere información más técnica puede contactar con soporte en el 22122 o en cualquier servicio especializado."

Both Lens and Google Translate confirm that what OP posted is the truth. But now we need an official confirmation in the form of a document from the Spanish data provider. You can then use that as proof that Rollbit's claim that you should have a Luxembourg IP is false. That proof is crucial to both Rollbit and an eventual mediator if the casino disagrees with the provided evidence. 

First of all Razor has to come from his high horse and actually accept that they may have made a mistake. In his previous comments here he made it look like rollbit is without a question always right and players are always scammers or people that want to take advantage of the casino.

In reality we all know that casinos very often take advantage of players and not the other way around.

I know we talked about binding arbitration but unless I missed something, there’s no binding arbitration here. $64k passed the amount where our opinion matters at all. One man’s proof isn’t the same as another’s.

Seriously, just stay out of it. You have absolutely nothing to say other than nonsense while others are trying to help OP. We give advise that could be crucial for the development of this case. Obviously you can't read and are resistant to see any possible mistake the casino is doing here.

Sure, OP might be right and/or the casino might be right, but not giving the player a chance to prove his innocence is just as stupid as some of the things you are throwing around in the scam accusation section.
I don't know why you are defending the casinos here so hard, maybe you want them to pay you for your useless "casino ratings list", where hilariously nitrobetting has a top spot. That itself says a lot about your list. Since you are absolutely no help I think you really should just mind your own business.

I don’t know what you are talking about. I’m backing the player, stated so in this thread and told him to file complaints. I have Rollbit D+ for this type of behavior and know they aren’t paying even though you are right in “resident” rule.

I called them up and they said they would be emailing me the same confirmation, in the meantime I leave another confirmation I got from another support member in the chat (he mentioned chat communication can be considered as official).

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/25/hjyev.jpeg

I've started reading from the main OP and I can say I am not surprised at all, this is not the first time that casinos have looked for pretences like this to steal people's money. It's usually the case of a double account or VPN violation, but now, it is a roaming problem. When does roaming becomes an issue, after all, it will never indicate a VPN but local access and it is never by force to use the ISP of the country you live in especially if you are used to the one you have back home or is cheaper. Can't someone travel across the globe and still register with them with a country? This is absurd and annoying, another reason why casinos should be strictly regulated. If they are truly regulated, this kind of cheating will stop as they will not dare to allow themselves to be reported for a clear case of cheating like this.

As it is, it is obvious that your contact can do nothing as she will only tell you what the management wants you to know, her hands must be tied. All you can do is start calling them out on the internet or find a lawyer in the country they run their operation from, like the headquarters. But be sure of this as many of them hide where they truly are to make the jurisdiction difficult for a lawsuit. Just keep the little evidence and conversation you have for this purpose. I believe when they see your lawyer's letter, they will do something. And if they prove stubborn, head to court and still let them pay for the legal fees. Also, weak or not, let your lawyer copy their supposed regulator. Casinos often get away with this since people do not know what to do and the governments are doing nothing about it. Even if you violate their terms and conditions, they should at least send your money to you before terminating your account.

Unless we have different understanding of binding arbitration, where it will have each of the party involved to adhere to the ruling by the arbitrator, then no, there is no binding arbitration provided by the forum or on this board. So what's the point of your previous post, again?

---

If you want to, I can ping Razer now instead of waiting for the email, but I personally think AHOYBRAUSE's suggestion about email and that Rollbit won't accept the screenshot as a compelling evidence has merit, given that the likelihood of successfully having Razer to re-visit this thread and consider my suggestion for video KYC will only work once.

Your call.

---

Then you'll surely also read that we're trying to deescalate the situation here, see if we can get it resolved without further hassle for OP, so I am not sure where this suggestion to escalate it [to the worst nightmare, if I may add] come from. Or why.

And from the current narrative, if you do read this thread carefully, then I think there is a possible scenario of misunderstanding. Rollbit can easily mistaken that OP accessed from Spain, given the compelling evidence they have if we consider it from their perspective.

Rollbit can always claim that they can't see who you are talking to, and they wouldn't be wrong. All we see are the names Toby and David. There is no proof that the person you spoke with belongs to your data provider's customer support. There is no link to a webpage visible anywhere. An official document signed and stamped by Vodafone would be much more credible.

I have called them up again today and they confirmed that they would be sending me an email confirmation (although I havent received anything yet). I would rather wait to have the email confirmation as well before going back to Razer, as it is much more solid evidence.

Finally managed to get them to issue me the same communication by email. I think this is good to ping Razer.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/27/hopso.png

Thank you for that screenshot. I attached the translated version through Google translate below. I'll try to get Razer's attention for this case, hopefully he will spare some time to revisit this thread and get your case reinvestigated with this recent evidence. To be clear, suppose they asked for it, you're willing to undergo a video verification KYC?

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/06/27/h53P5.png

This e-mail proves that Rollbit's earlier claim about the IP address always being a local one isn't correct and depends on several factors. Based on that, they can't accuse the player of playing from or residing in a banned territory. If the casino wants to confirm the information themselves, they can reach out to Vodefone Spain via the e-mail address in your screenshot or through a contact method of their choice.

Petermario, I learned that other than escalating to this forum, you also trying to get it resolved by reaching to their complaint team [or something like that]. As such, Razer can't do much, as that means of communication is now the one Rollbit is focusing themselves on.

Well let's be honest, Razor pretty much shattered the case with his reply anyway. I don't see that he has any interest to step away from his initial reply.
Also, he never even came back here, so now him claiming it's out of his hands is just another classic move we have seen before.

Of course the player goes through any means necessary when he feels that he is getting cheated and treated unfairly. Other players do the same, have a case open here as well as on askgamblers or something similar, and nobody complained about this before.

Always the same.

Yes, I can understand that when players are on a situation, they'll most likely tries and exhaust every means possible to get their case resolved. But, to address one of your point, actually there are instances when cases got escalated to arbitrator or to other channel with higher authority than this forum and the casino's representative will refrain from addressing the issue in any other channel but the one they deemed fit most. This is one of the reason why, aside from trying to deescalate the issue, I usually suggest players to see if the forum can get their situation resolved prior to having it escalated to an arbitrator.

I just sent them an email as I was referred to them by the Rollbit support team, but havent engaged with them or an arbitrator since trying to resolve it through the forum. If they are not willing to hear me out here, what do you suggest I do? I think that trying to resolve it with their compliance team is a dead end (they said for them its case closed in the email I attached), so I highly doubt they will listen to me.

I am a bit lost at this point, as it is a lot of money that they have quite literally taken from me for no good reason. I would think that they would like to keep their reputation intact as I have heard they are trying to apply to operate in the UK?

Would really appreciate your advice here.

To be blunt, I don't think there is much option for you right now. From what I understand from Razer's reply, Rollbit will reach try to resolve this and get in touch with you through that email with compliance team, so I think that's the only way you can take right now.

You can always update us with the development of your situation, I'll try to nudge Razer if you're stuck during the process.

[/quote]

To be blunt, I don't think there is much option for you right now. From what I understand from Razer's reply, Rollbit will reach try to resolve this and get in touch with you through that email with compliance team, so I think that's the only way you can take right now.

You can always update us with the development of your situation, I'll try to nudge Razer if you're stuck during the process.
[/quote]

Okay, appreciate your input. In the spirit of transparency I will document here all of the communications with their compliance team, hopefully we can move the conversation into the forum as I believe it will lead to the fairer outcome.

Please see below my draft reply to their compliance team (I shared their original email in an earlier post). Would you highlight any other points to make my case stronger?

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/29/h0k1c.png

I think you have covered most of the important issues except for one thing: your logins to your Rollbit account from a UK IP address. Razor mentioned that some of your playtime was connected with a UK IP. You explained that you were using a UK SIM card for work. I think you should provide more information about that and perhaps also get in touch with your UK data provider in a similar way like you did with Vodafone ES and ask them about IPs and data roaming. Are you able to provide proof when you purchased the UK sim card and started using it? It might also be important to prove that you never played while in the UK, and that you didn't reside there at any time while betting on Rollbit. Sadly, you lied to their support about that, and they can always consider that an infraction. However, it's not one that justifies confiscating all your winnings.

Yeah that one still has some question marks around it.
I mean he also said the he went (visited) London at some point, so that is also a possibility for the IPs. Problem is, if he played there it might not really violate the terms since the rules only say that people that reside somewhere are not allowed to play. Visiting is not residing, but who know.
Also, if he really played there and they want to blame him for that they could only confiscate the winnings he made while being there. Other winnings should not be effected in my opinion.

Last but not least, Razor said their should be a message he is not allowed to play, I just tried rollbit with a Spanish and a UK IP and there no no message, just saying.
Also, if there is just a message what would stop a player?? At stake for example, if I open it with a banned region IP it doesn't even properly open the site, just a big fat you are not allowed to play with this IP message.

As Pmalek said, I think your email is already good enough, one thing that can make it better is if you can supplement it with similar explanation from your UK provider. Regarding whether you've ever playing from UK, it'll be harder to prove, and I think they have to accept it at face value. The other alternative will be to let them void all of the winnings happened when your IP shows as UK and let you keep the ones from ES/LUX.

---

I might be wrong, but IIRC the rule to forbid users who resides in restricted country is to be compliant with the gambling regulation of that country, i.e. they forbid users from playing from UK not because they have something against UK, blacklisting UK, or something around that, it's rather because they don't have the permit [and legally compliant] to offer their service there, so they simply can't let people play on their platform from those territories.

Thus, even when someone visiting and not residing, or to put it in a more extreme, even if someone just get past the transit zone [IIRC, transit zone ara considered as a sterile area where you're technically yet to be in the country's soil] and the immigration post, they'll still be considered accessing from prohibited country.

[Disclaimer: I think... even if we access gambling platforms from the transit area of a prohibited territory, that we've not get past the immigration post, we'll still be considered as violating their term. Because eventhough we're yet to be technically on their soil, we still have already entered their jurisdiction].

If a casino is going to use jurisdiction as a reason not to pay, can losing players recoup losses if playing from banned jurisdictions? I think whatever rules are enforced should be enforced both ways instead of putting the player in a lose/lose situation. Rollbit will accept losses from banned jurisdictions, they should pay out wins.

Will winning players openly admit winning if playing from banned jurisdiction?

Never, but the player isn't putting the casino in a lose/lose situation. The casino is putting the player in a lose/lose situation. The balance of the scale is unfair.

Do you read the irony?

I can understand what you are saying but the casino is going to catch everyone that wins a substantial amount of money. The player will never be able to recoup losses. Also, the casino is stealing from innocent players caught in the net. unfortunately, this player has no chance even if innocent. Rollbit just got away with $400 in the other case, they aren't paying $64k.

If the rules say "resident", why does it matter where he played from? You answered above but we can't make the player guess as long as he abided by the ToS. There is nothing about where play comes from in the rules.

Okay thank you both, I will try to get the same sort of email from the UK phone provider. For now I sent them the email as it was, will let you know what they reply.

I wouldn't count on that explanation working. If UK is a banned territory, you shouldn't play from there, whether you reside in it or just visiting. Think about people with dual citizenship. They would essentially have free pass to cheat. If the casino tells them UK players aren't allowed, they can always say, I am not from the UK, here are my documents that confirm I am from X country.

How did you try it? Did you just visit the website or did you try to log in to your account?

Not sure why it's not working for you, but this message is what I see using a UK IP:
A few seconds later, I got redirected to https://www.rollbit.co.uk/.

A message is enough. If players decide to ignore it or circumvent it, they should face the consequences. Obviously, not being able to use the casino at all would be even better.

Don't you see how your proposal puts casinos in an always losing situation?

- I play from a restricted country, win, try to withdraw, and they pay me without noticing it.
- I play from a restricted country, win, try to withdraw, they realize I am in a banned territory and freeze my account. I then complain how they allowed me to play from a restricted country and get my deposits back.

Whatever happens, I don't lose my initial deposits and I stand to win if they don't notice me cheating. 

The other case with 400 USD, if you read them thoroughly, it's the bonus that's voided, not user's own balance. Rollbit did not go away with their player's fund on that case. True that if the OP of that thread said the whole truth, that he didn't try to tamper with his exclusion due to his addiction [I believe we're very familiar with these situation], it would be rather cruel for Rollbit to dangle a bonus of 400 USD after 30 days of grace period, and retract it on the last day. The question is, can we really take the player's story for granted?

For your second paragraph, to be blunt, I'm not sure what's the point of your [what I can only consider as] rambling. you asked a question I've explained, then acknowledged yourself that the question has been answered [thus, rather useless], then you inquire about casino shouldn't make player guess? Guess what, exactly? Whether they're accessing from restricted teritory or not? They don't have to guess, they're most likely being listed on the casino's ToS, they only need to read that. And yes, there is nothing about where play[er] comes from, it's about residency and access point and compliance to the rule within that country, not about someone's nationality. So, can you perhaps rephrase to better convey your point?

  $400 in rewards were stolen. $64k is being stolen. Which rule in the ToS was broken by the player in this thread? We shouldn’t play lawyer for books.

If we take OP's narrative here as the working story and that he tell us the whole situation, nothing. There's nothing on the ToS that OP broke. And that's what we try to resolve here. We suggested OP to have video KYC suppose that option become available, we suggested OP to reach to his Spanish provider to get a written statement about his IP, and we suggested him to do the same with his UK provider to solidify his position.

I don't think anyone play as lawyer for rollbit here. You should have understand all of that if you read the thread carefully. Which post indicated and gave you impression that someone is playing lawyer for the book?

Hi everyone, Rollbit got back to me with the following email (see attached below), I am still drafting a response and will send a draft across here first, but I think their arguments/points in their email are deeply flawed, at least they have admitted the point on the mobile phone IP location.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/09/ocnWC.png

1. They suggest that the due to me living in the UK currently (I still have not moved and still reside in LUX), voids the fact that I lived in LUX when using the account. This argument does not hold up, as I have been residing in LUX throughout the time of opening and using my account, therefore it is irrelevant where my current location is (again, I am still in LUX).

2. They argue that it is "extremely unlikely" that I reside and live there given there have been no IP hits. This has been explained in length, but I only used my phone to connect to Rollbit and I always use my data as they are unlimited. I believe a KYC will help them place me in LUX for the time I have been using the account (and currently).

3. They ask why wouldnt I use my Wifi even at home, and the fact is that I always use the data on my phone given I dont have restrictions on usage.

Could you please help me on some proof or suggestions I could make to them so we can move the case forward?

Thank you very much

The whole case comes down to your residence. Their talk about phone records and IP are just smoke and mirrors. Get as much proof as possible showing that you reside in LUX. Rollbit is not going to fold here, but this will help with arbitration elsewhere.

Well it's actually hard to help you since even we try it seems like rollbit is resisting any arguments.
They repeatedly said you "admitted to live in the UK" but when I asked you weeks ago about that you said that you never did.
Sure it should not matter for this case if you live there now when the actual gameplay was made somewhere else.

I do agree with rollbit about 1 thing though. It would appear strange if there is actually not 1 single LUX IP in your history. Maybe you are very strict about your habits and really only play with the phone provider IP but even I for example sometimes use the wifi in my gym or some hotel or whatever to check my account and claim some bonus or whatever, not necessarily for gaming.

You’re right about Rollbit resisting arguments. They are deflecting to IP.

Edit- OP has a LUX resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. That’s all that needs to be said.

The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident

I don’t think the OP has to recant anything. He said he’s currently living in the UK but wasn’t at the time of his play. All proof that Rollbit has submitted is subordinate to a resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Since the weight of the evidence is in favor of the OP, nothing else is needed. He doesn’t have to prove that he’s innocent beyond a shadow of doubt. Rollbit hasn’t proved guilt beyond doubt. If one party has to present more evidence, it would be Rollbit.

Edit- let’s pretend this is a court of law.

Prosecutor - where do you reside?
OP - In Lux and shows resident permit, rental agreement and bank statement.

Prosecutor - why don’t any of your log ins come from LUX.
OP - says what he stated here.

The excuse for IP may not be true but it’s not conclusive. IP is Rollbit’s whole argument. Rollbit needed a change in ToS to win.

OP made a statement, that he's a resident of UK. That exact keyword. Resident.

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/07/10/o4esa.jpeg

Granted, OP explained to us that he made that statement so that they'll [TBH, up to this day, I'm not sure the correlation of them and how does such outcome expected to happen] release his fund without KYC and he's in fact still a resident of LUX and only visit London on short-time-but-frequent basis.

I don't think it will acceptable as an ommission from record on any adjudicative body without any action from OP. Which.. is what we try to achieve here.

Someone said at some point that he's a resident of UK, and at other point, he got pointed out that UK is a restricted territory, and he later said that he's actually not a resident of UK, would that word be taken for granted instead of an [involuntary] admission of guilt?

Rollbit did gave a prove of guilt (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499584.msg64199748#msg64199748), which actually became the basis of this entire discussion, OP's IP on their log shows UK and Spain. Again, granted, OP explained that it's due to his mobile data, as supported by Vodavone Spain, so we can cross the Spain situation, but it is yet to be explained by his UK provider. And even if the UK provider explained the same as Vodavone, that their data carrier will still shows UK as their IP when the user is in LUX, it doesn't close to a possibility that OP played from UK during his visits. Unless we take it at face value.

Which... We actually kinda do. We gave OP benefit of doubts and take his word for it, that he never played when he's on UK soil. No ToS being violated. That's why, we [well, I] suggested him several ways to prove his innocence against the incriminating evidence [his admission and his IP record].

Bottomline, OP made a statement that self incriminate himself, and contrary to what you believe, he need to recant this. Rollbit provides him a chance to do so. Both of this leads to my suggestion.

---

p.s.: One thing that worth mentioning, I find AHOYBRAUSE's question about wifi rather interesting and a valid question to be answered, but I am not venturing over it and would let ahoy pursue this matter if he deemed it fit. I rather choose to focus on a way for OP to resolve this matter.

Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence. This is a clear cut win for the OP in any court, even in civil courts.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?

It doesn’t matter where the play came from. Also there is a difference between where you are living and what country you are a “resident”. Living in a country for a year doesn’t make you a “resident” of the country. The OP didn’t break the ToS.

Edit- this is why I say you always start off taking the book’s side. The onus is on the book to prove guilt.

There’s a legal process to become a “resident” of a country.

How? If the play come from UK or Spain [or other restricted territory] it certainly will be considered as a breach of ToS. So, it matters where the play come from. Unless I am wrongly seeing this, so how is it not matter? Please indulge me with an easy to understand explanation.

As for the residency situation, here's a simple break down: their ToS prohibit a resident of UK to play on their platform. OP made a statement that he's a UK resident, supported by UK IP. So let me ask you again, how do you propose OP to prove that he never, not once, played from UK?

Let's make it a bit more complicated. He made a statement that he's a UK resident. Even with LUX residence permit, which shows the date of expiracy, but doesn't [obviously] tell us whether he stays until the expiration date or he has moved to other country and have another residence permit there, it opens to a possibility that he [at any point from the residency permit of LUX being issued to this day] actually have a situation as he said, that he's no longer in LUX and has become a UK semi-permanent resident.

He retracted his statement of being a UK resident and said that he commute to UK on frequent basis [if I'm not mistaken] only after it's being pointed out to him that UK is also a restricted territory. Worsen that with the fact that not even once his IP pinged to be from LUX [that whole wifi situation]. Bring this to any court, even civil court, I believe most will see it as an attempt to change a narrative to save himself from self-incrimination. Unless, he can prove that he's indeed only made up that incriminating statement for whatever reason, that it's false and that he's still commute to UK because his base is still in LUX.

They are willing [at least that's the impression I get as they're still opening a communication with OP] to listen to OP's defense, I tend to believe it's a very short window that will closes soon by the numbers of correspondencies he has with their team. So unless you can suggest OP a way to prove that he never access from within UK soil despite what his IP said, the better option will be to disprove his own statement of being UK resident, so yes, it needs to be recanted. I believe I don't need to explain that even with the UK provider giving the same explanation as Spain Vodavone, it doesn't directly disprove OP to have ever play from UK.

Pursuing the possibility to produce a supporting document that his employment transfers only become effective on certain date after 10th of June, or if he can provide them with UK residence permit [if I'm not wrong, it has date of issuance on it], we will have a small blip of hope that his previous UK residency statement/situation is not valid, since being rather full time in LUX and temporarily in UK [since he only commute instead of having a residence permit] would give a smaller chance for him to access Rollbit from UK soil compared to if he's being in UK full time.

If you have a better suggestion to help OP gets out of this situation, perhaps help him with the wifi situation as that's what asked by Rollbit's team, if not a way to prove he never play from within UK soil, I'm all ears.

It’s futile at this point. The OP misused the term “resident”,  just as you did with “slander”. I still knew the meaning of what you tried to convey and you should do the same. I’m out because no matter what I say, you aren’t changing your mind. The same goes for Rollbit. They are stealing the OP’s money.They should change their ToS.

First, about your edit [we'll leave your other edit and ninja edit on this thread untouched]. How on earth this is me "taking the book's side"? I literally brainstorming a way for OP to prove his innocence. How? By all means, please tell me.


No, no, it's not futile, and this is not about me changing my mind. Far from it. It's about convincing Rollbit. We're trying to help OP here and he's asking for an input on some prove or suggestion for him to do to make the things go forward.

I gave some ideas to help him disprove his statement about UK residency as it is currently what Rollbit held against him, and it seems you somehow perceive them as... hmm... I'm not sure...taking the book's side? Or is it ineffective? Or is it your primal instinct to jump and argue to all of my point, without really digesting what I tried to say, due to that prejudice that I am always taking books side?

Anyway, please, for the sake of OP, give us your input.

It’s futile to try and convince Rollbit if they aren’t going to accept resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Our time is better spent to try and help others.

Edit- change of mind on regulatory means. Rollbit needs to be forced to pay and that’s the only possibility, even if the chances are slim.

If you feel that it's a waste of time and it's better spent on others, then by all means, please do, no one is stopping you from removing yourself from this thread. I'm staying, though. Because for the third [at least the ones that I explicitly said instead of being clearly implied, or is it the fourth?] time said on this thread, this is me trying to help the community.

Because contrary to what you believe, though I've repetitively say it to a point of being redundant, I stood on neutral ground. Always do. If I'm on books' side, I'll have been leaving from many posts ago, given "it's futile to try and convince Rollbit". Why do I still need to stay? I've won, "my side" won. I've got what I come for.

Hell... to unnecessarily overemphasizing the ridiculousness of a statement that I'm taking book's side, this case opened with me notifying Razer and attempting OP to get another chance to prove himself, both onscreen that can be read by public here and "off-screen" through PM correspondencies with OP and Razer, which ultimately leads him into the email path.

That's me taking a book's side?

So, my suggestion before we part ways, in the future, if you ever bumped into me again in other thread, and you happen to question on what side I am on in every cases, remember this and know that outside of what the forum member can publicly read, I'm doing so much more and exhausting way more than much method to ensure every player submitting their complaint here are given at least a shot or two.

Those not-necessarily-dirty laundry aired, as no one stopping you from leaving, no one can also stop you from staying. Clearly. So if you happen to have made a long walk and have your head cooled off and decided to jump back in to help OP with the situation, extra pair of eyes will always help.

If the chance of you ever make any further post on this thread, be it to help the player or anything else, is infinitesimal, before you leave, to pacify my curiosity, what are the answer for all of those question, especially after my overly-self-praising statement above? Pure curiositym really. Those me being always taking the book's side and [more importantly] my suggestion for OP to reply to Rollbit?

You are taking the book's side by making the OP go through hell and high water with unnecessary documentation instead of questioning Razor. You have a closer relationship with Razor than I do, but this is the type of question I’d like answered.

Razor,

The player has submitted his resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. All show that the player is a resident of LUX. Rollbit's ToS allow residents of LUX to play. The ToS state nothing about where the bets were generated from making IP addresses irrelevant. Is there anything else that the poster can submit to change your position?

Nah man, I seriously doubt holydarkness is taking the casino's side. He is always very unbiased in cases like this.
The only problem here is the silence of Razor. Why is it so hard to make and extended KYC process?? OP clearly is ok with that and wants to show any proof imaginable to show his side of the story, yet rollbit doesn't even react on that.

It is ok to have doubts about OP's honesty but at least give him a fair chance to prove his point instead of make a bold statement and pretty much make a verdict without a trial. This is a lot of money we are talking about. Rollbit is a rich casino and he is just one of thousands of (mostly losing) players. Treating a player like this should be a warning to everyone considering playing there and trusting the site with their money.

I am new to this thread but have read up on most of the details and do feel sympathy for you because $64,000 is a lot of money.

When you stated there were never any issues when you deposited and withdrew around $60,000 over a two year period but on this occasion when the sum reached $64,000 it became an issue, this is something all casinos and gaming websites should look to improve. If they can block withdrawals based on their terms and conditions then surely they can block deposits on the very same terms and conditions too.

This does seem extremely harsh and unfair.

For clarity, if you are currently in Luxembourg, can you use your phone with your regular Spanish sim and open a browser without using any sort of VPN and then take a screenshot of what you see when you visit this website: https://www.whatismyip.com

According to the screenshots you provided earlier, it should be showing a Spanish IP address because of EU regulations (even though most would have thought it would be a local Luxembourg IP address) but a screenshot can settle the issue.

That "unnecessary documentation" is a suggestion for OP since he asked for advise on what to provide to make his case moving. As Rollbit currently highlighted the issue where he made a statement of being a UK resident, best way [IMO] will be to disprove his own statement and allows him to retract that, effectively forcing Rollbit to accept that OP's statement is not true and they have to reevaluate OP's case, thus [hopefully] the enhanced KYC.

If the process of providing such documentation that allows OP to get his situation cleared requires OP to go through hell and high water, then as long as he doesn't mind, I'll be more than happy to drag him over boiling pot, shards of glasses, flaming red charcoal, and perhaps poke him with Lucifer's own pitchfork myself. Keyword: as long as he doesn't mind.

Those three points, the "unnecessary documentation" I wrote were that: suggestions for OP to get through with this situation, it's explicitly stated if you bother to read carefully. So again I ask, how do I take book's side?

I've asked you if you probably have a better way to assist OP, to disprove his own claim of UK residency and to prove that not even once he ever played within UK soil. Feel free to pitch in if you have a better idea, as it'll apparently be a fluffy, silk-soft road.


And at this point I honestly not sure if you have a complete understanding of the situation. There is a ToS about where the bets generated from, it made IP addresses relevant.

That is the exact difficulty OP faced. He made a statement that he's a UK resident, he has UK IP on his log, it made him violated their ToS, and Rollbit held this statement against him. Unless we can disprove his own statement, that's the ongoing narrative. Nowhere, not even in civil court, such a written statement implicating self can easily be striked without strong basis, and that's what we try to do: to help OP prove that he has never accessed Rollbit from UK

---

I'd like to think that... well, to be completely honest, "think" is not the right word, it's "hope", since I honestly can't predict where will this case goes. The way I understand it, Razer has handed the case to their compliance team since OP also escalated to their support channel other than this thread [it's also indicated on the last screenshot OP provided, where Rollbit state the email will be their means of communication], so he didn't have any control over the case anymore [this practice is quite common, where a higher-ups of a casino let their department made their decision, and the higher-ups won't [or even can't] turn the decision made]. I don't think Razer even following this thread anymore.

So, that above said, I'd like to hope that once we can help OP disprove his own previous statement about being UK resident, Rollbit will have nothing against him anymore and would have to allow him to do the video KYC, or whatever enhanced verification that will sort this situation out.

OP, Petermario, how likely is it to procure such documentation I previously asked? Or, if you'd like other path to pursue, can you perhaps tell us your situation with wifi? Perhaps the true situation behind it was not as "malicious" as Rollbit assumed, and perhaps sharing it here will help.

---

Umm... the situation with Spanish provider is --I believe-- already cleared and it's no longer an issue. Vodavone gave an official email, explaining that even if OP accessed the internet from LUX, his IP will still show as ES.

bump for holydarkness. I don’t see anything about IP address. And you aren’t understanding the legal meaning of the word “resident” where the OP may have meant living. Or he may have become a “resident” after playing there. If you want to help the OP, and don’t want the OP to be dragged through hell and high water, then ask Razor what would help. What you think may move the dial may be irrelevant to Rollbit.

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/07/11/og6xG.jpeg

If you tries to argue that "it talked about territories, not IP", then I would have to reconsider the worth of my past, present, and future conversation with you.

And I'm glad you're talking about me being confused about resident. I wanted to brush over it when you talked about it before, but decided against it. Now that you're talking about it again... are you sure you're understand the term about "resident" here? Is it perhaps [it actually crosses my mind and I've been really curious] you mixed "resident" with "citizen"?

To make things clear, my understanding about "resident" on this specific matter, as well as what I believe applied by many [if not all] casino is not about people's nationality, it's about where their feet set place when they accessed the casino. Couple of casinos even describes nicely to me that [I don't recall the exact nation each of them gave me, but let's just throw random names and random casino here for illustration purpose] suppose a Londoners plays at Rollbit from his home, this is a violation of ToS. But when that Londoners, someone with UK citizenship, fly to Singapore or to Japan and accessed Rollbit, it's acceptable. Likewise, when a Singaporean or Japanese is on UK soil, they are not allowed to play on Rollbit despite their nationality and/or they're only staying for a short moment that the official rule of a country group them as a tourist instead of a resident.

Thus, OP, a Spanish with LUX residency permit [not Lux citizenship] is allowed to play in LUX. However, the instance he returned to Spain or when he commute to UK, he is not allowed by ToS to play on Rollbit when their feet [or any limbs, really] is on that soil.

This is not just Rollbit. There are past cases about this topic on different casinos, someone with accepted nationality commute to other [restricted] country and they got banned. And if you must know how do I be certain that many casino apply this rule, it's because the first time I learned about this, I actually asked one casino's insight about residency policy for a case with competing casino. They both gave similar explanation for their own rule about territory. And then another casino, just to be sure.

I believe I've made it known on many occasions to many frequent overseer of this board. I can explain in long paragraph about this, the why they do this and all, but I don't think that'll be necessary for now [and certainly won't be necessary if what I feared above is true, that you'll insist IP is not territory]

Now, moving to OP's real situation. He "admitted" to Rollbit that he's a resident of UK, further strengthen with the IP addresses log that place him in UK. Regardless of his true living arrangement [that according to him he's still having Luxembourg as his base], both point open to an interpretation that he lived in UK, he stepped and walked on UK soil, he breathed UK's air, you name it. Again, not necessarily a citizen of UK, he simply only need to stand on UK's soil and accessed Rollbit from his device, and that's a violation of ToS.

This is what we're discussing, this is what we try to help OP to disprove, that despite his IP address said UK and he made a statement that he's a UK resident, he's actually yet to have UK as his base, he's still living in LUX, he only commuted to UK. To disprove his own "admission" of being UK resident [which instantly broke Rollbit's ToS] that I suggested those --check notes-- hell and high water documentation.

Resident is different than citizen. It really doesn't even matter since it all occurred after play. If you are living somewhere, it doesn't make you a "resident". You have to be in the UK at least 183 days. Even if you want to use the term living at and resident interchangeable, it doesn't matter. Let's say I'm wrong on "resident".  Your resident argument isn't good unless play was at the same time. Why don't you just ask Razor what type of information would help the OP's case?


https://immigrationlawyers-london.com/uk-residency.php

https://www.expatustax.com/residential-status-uk/#:~:text=Automatic%20Residence%20Test%3A%20If%20you,re%20automatically%20considered%20a%20resident.

Did you... even read my long text? Yeah, I know it's long and boring, perhaps can be shortened out to few paragraphs, but those entire paragraphs consist of all of crucial information. The bottomline, though, casino's [many casino, not just rollbit] term for "residency" simply refers to the place when someone accessed their platform.

It's not about duration [I've explained above, not sure if you actually read them], it's about where your feet stepped on. The instance you step on UK, you're not allowed to play. The instance a Londoner leave UK, they're allowed to play.

And if it helps [few of that "long paragraph about this" I brushed earlier, of which I've actually explained once or twice in the past], those restriction and rules is not because a casino doesn't want to do business with a country. It's not because Rollbit hates The Queen, or Biden, they simply have that rule in order to be compliant to the country's rule.

They don't have a permit to conduct business in UK and those other territory. They can't legally cater a round of BJ for a Japanese tourist who visited UK because they don't have legal body and permit to cater gambling activity in UK.

If you still insist on those residency and visa as the one that apply, then I give up. I don't think that worth my energy. I'll advise you to familiarize with threads on this board, though. Those situation with "residency" and what they're defined according to casinos [thus, indirectly, this board] has been discussed on several cases.

How would you rule as is? Rollbit has IP. OP has resident, rental agreement and bank statements saying he's a LUX resident at the time of his play.

Rollbit should geo-block instead of tricking posters.

I read your stuff but it doesn't matter. I took the resident argument from AHOY. Go with your definition of resident. The OP moved. It would have been better if you sent it for better chance of reply, but I sent this

that's exactly what I tried to convey and made you understand. That's what I suggested OP to submit to disprove his own statement. For the love of all holy and dark being. Let me try again,

OP made a bad decision by giving a statement that he's a UK resident. Regardless of the meaning of resident that OP gave, be it an extended stays, a short visit, one [week] night stand, he admitted to Rollbit that he's in UK. OP instantly violates Rollbit's ToS by his own statement because they'll assume OP accessed Rollbit with those two big feet of his on Canary Wharf or somewhere else. It further proven by Rollbit's detection of IP that's pinged to UK instead of LUX.

As it seems Rollbit uses this against OP, I proposed OP to disprove his own statement, that he's not staying more than what his working hours require, and commutes back to LUX when it's over [thus, the chance to actually play from UK is significantly smaller compared to if he's there for extended period like being on permanent basis]. I honestly don't know what to suggest to OP if Rollbit asked him to prove that he's truly never, not even once, played from UK, perhaps during his lunch break, and I really hope we don't have to come that way. Though I've propose it to you, suppose you have a good way for OP to prove this.


Oh? What did Ahoy said about resident?

AHOYBRAUSE, my apology, it seems you're dragged into this [I assume] rather unwillingly. But do you mind to tell us what exactly the definition of residency you gave to Peeps?

And no, Peeps, it's not my opinion, it's an explanation from several casinos. It is what applies throughout casinos. I am not the one who make that rule according to myself. It's simply a "fact" of definition agreed amongst casinos.


Great. I wished you good luck and we can hear from Razer from your side.

Sportsbet.io Stake Pinnacle
Stake, Sportsbet and Pinnacle all use "or", meaning there is a difference. Even if I'm wrong on "resident", for the sake of argument, you are just looking for gotcha moments just like any scam book looks for one little thing to hold on too. Look for reasons to pay the player, not for reasons not to pay the player. For the 100th time, he said he was a resident after playing, not while he was playing. You're looking for another gotcha moment for the book by repeating over and over again a clip of what a poster said, ignoring that he said after playing he became a resident. Who would you rule for at this point? I noticed you are avoiding it.

How did he play from UK?

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/07/11/og9rI.jpeg

Oh, look at that, some casinos actually made a better detailed ToS regarding restricted territory and residency. When the case initially arised and I gave an explanation about how those residency works according to some casinos' representative, IIRC, there was some interesting discussion about how will it affect the player's financial report, tax-wise. I guess this tackles it, so kudos to SB, Stake, and Pinnacle.

Now, moving to your post, that quotes above prove that you are wrong, not just for the sake of argument, it is the fact. It's clearly written, what three of them [and other casinos, though they might not as detailed as above] consider as a resident is someone who located in or within the country. It doesn't need those earlier requirement of residency you insisted and persistently lectured me. The second someone set foot on that soil, they're considered to be located in or within that territory. I'm not here to rub it in, though, so I take that topic to rest, glad it's cleared to you.

Next... me and gotcha moment? Looking for a little thing to hold on to? What do you even mean by these? If I have to repeat, which you can prove yourself by re-reading the entire thread [this time, try to not wearing that myopic glasses of "holy always taking side of the books"] I literally tries to get OP free from this "hold". I suggested ways for him to show Rollbit that his case worth reconsidering, that he didn't breach ToS here. I suggested way for OP to convince Rollbit to pay the player. Get that "Holy always side with casino" idea from your head, and you'll start to see this thread from different perspective.

As for who will I rule for at this point and me avoiding that question? First, I'm not avoiding it. It's missed simply and purely because I don't even realize it's a question. And second, as I've also repetitively answered on way too many different occasions, I am not calling a decision/ruling. I deemed myself not wise enough to know what transpires behind each and every cases, both sides always hide something, so I prefer to questions and ask for proof until one thing became evident.

For the sake to prove it to you [and anyone who questions my side, though I honestly think it's just you] that I am not defending Rollbit or that I didn't have OP's best interest at heart ¹, here, it's what I wrote to Razer when OP gave me a go (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499584.msg64262403#msg64262403).

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/07/12/o8Yp1.jpeg

---

¹guess sharing my side of PM is allowed and won't be considered as a breach of privacy? And if I am not mistaken, the rule said sharing it for the sake of investigation is allowed? Well, since I am being investigated here...

The hard block restriction for UK users was only recently added, (around the middle of June afaik), priror to that there was a warning as follows:
"For legal reasons, this website and its services are not available in your country. If you are using a VPN, please disable it and try again" - This message would appear every time the user loaded the site, and they would have to close the notification in order to use the site.

The hard block for UK users as mentioned has only recently been put in place, likely to better direct users to the upcoming UK Rollbit site.


From my knowledge of sites, although its stated that you must reside in the allowed region, if you are using the site from a restricted region (the OP admitted to playing in from the UK) that is also a breach of the TOS as the site does not have a license to allow the user to play there.

I did not know whether Rollbit accepted the contents of the email and either way adding a screenshot of the output from his phone browser will not take time. Still, if that part of the issue has been resolved because Rollbit have accepted it, that is a good thing and the other issues can be addressed.

Part of what this incident has shown is that the terms and conditions can (rightly or otherwise) be used as and how any casino deems fit. Though not specific to this case, what seems to be the case is that if a member has used the service to deposit and withdraw from an accepted location there is no problem but on a few occasions for example while travelling to a location for a holiday or family visit to a restricted location and decided to either place a bet or withdraw, it could cause a problem but depositing funds from restricted areas would not be a problem until they use it as part of their case to withhold funds.

Add to that the issues of EU roaming IP addresses then the matter becomes more complex because casinos can apply their terms and conditions with any interpretation they want.

First of all, thank you all for your inputs.

To address the Wifi point, I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as even youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

Moreover, I appreciate that the documentation @holydarkness suggests would be very helpful. However, the only way for me to prove a negative (prove that I am not residing in the UK) would be for me to provide my latest utility bills showing that I am actually living at my place in LUX. I wouldnt have a way to gather the documentation you suggest, as I am not yet officially moving (it has been agreed with my boss but they havent kicked off the internal HR process) - I stated I already resided in the UK as I naively thought that this way I would be able to get away with withdrawing the funds without completing KYC.

On the IP issue with the UK, the reply will be the same as for the Spanish provider, but they are still to get back to me with a more detailed response (I will update here once they do). I have to stay that I brought up me travelling frequently to the UK to explain why I have a UK SIM, not to imply that I ever played while there (although I dont think there is any way for me to prove otherwise). As the same questions can be raised as to if I ever played from Spain (which I didnt).

Provided they have accepted the IP location part, I believe my strongest defence is proving that I actually live in LUX, providing the residence permit, my rental agreement and monthly bills, my Spanish ID and my employment contract if necessary - this will place me in LUX at all times.

thanks for the clarification. If the OP admits to playing from the UK, the penalty seems stiff that all winnings can be confiscated. I think it more fair to void winnings while in restricted areas. If he won all his money while in LUX and then starts playing from the UK, he should be paid winnings.

Additionally Rollbit argues that

"However, that point is moot as you have admitted to living in the UK, a restricted territory. Even if you were able to produce documents that you have recently lived in Luxembourg, there is no way for you to prove that you do not currently live in the UK after admitting it to us twice."

Proving that I am still living in LUX will by consequence prove that I currently do NOT live in the UK.

you can’t make an easy decision now with all the evidence out yet you did it with Fairlay without giving them a chance to provide evidence. Names, teams, associations are now publicly posted of the fixed matches.

The OP has rental agreement, residence and bank statements. There is nothing that can trump that. This decision can be made now. How would you rule right now if you were the arbitrator and there is nothing else to be presented?

Let’s not talk further about Fairlay. That can be done in the other thread if wanted.

Please see below my draft reply for the Rollbit team, I will be addressing their points one by one in red. Do you suggest I add more content to my email?

"Thank you for getting back to us."

"Talking about this case in a forum is not part of the official complaints process, so we won't be providing replies through that medium, only here."

"Upon further investigation it would indeed appear that it is possible for a mobile data package to determine your IP based geolocation."

"However, that point is moot as you have admitted to living in the UK, a restricted territory. Even if you were able to produce documents that you have recently lived in Luxembourg, there is no way for you to prove that you do not currently live in the UK after admitting it to us twice."
I am able to provide rental agreement, utility bills, residence permit and even employment contract that will prove that I not only was living in Luxembourg at the time of opening the account, but I am still living in Luxembourg.

"Furthermore, there is no IP based evidence that would place you in Luxembourg. It is extremely likely that you would have at least one IP hit over this period of time that would connect you to Luxembourg, but we fail to locate one."

"Is there a reason why you always use mobile data, and do not connect to a Wifi network even in your own home?"
I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as even youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

"We look forward to hearing from you."

Additionally, I would like to point out that allowing me to complete an exhaustive KYC will shed light to the questions you are asking and will clarify where I was when using the Rollbit account.

OP, I'm on a very tiny screen of a mobile phone right now and it's rather inconvenient to type on this and it will probably take me around two or three hours before I can access the forum from my usual device. In case you're about to send that reply, do you mind to hold until I can make a proper post? I might have something to add that's helpful

Sure, I can hold off until you get back

Even though you are in Luxembourg it should show a Spanish IP address, this is a very simple thing for you to do. I understand the point about unlimited data on your sim therefore you have no need to use wifi however you could have taken screenshot of what you see when you open the following website: whatismyipaddress.com

Please find snip attached, I covered the IP for security - it shows I am in Spain.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/12/obf7J.jpeg

OP, my reply to you is at the last part of this post.

---

To be fair, they said that the point is moot since OP admitted of being a resident of UK, so whether they accept it or not is actually still unclear, but the paragraph [IMO] should be safe to be translated as a corporate language to say that they acknowledge that their previous call is unfounded and to be revoked.

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/07/12/oKXoN.png

---

In case you somehow still don't get it, be it due to miscommunication, misunderstanding, or your post this far is just an attempt to prove me wrong for whatever reason, instead of doing what you claimed you always do [helping the player], that is what we [well, other people and I, not sure about you] try to do.

OP said he just made up that statement [and I'll say again, just to be clear of any confusion of my stance regarding this very particular part, not sure why OP made it and what's the outcome he expected] just to get away with KYC. He's in LUX the whole time, he's yet to be UK resident. That's what I tries to help and provide to OP, a suggestion to [dis]prove his UK residency.

And in case that above is still doesn't able to penetrate your skull, here, OP gets it, this is what we try to achieve,



First of all, to address the "let's not talk further about Fairlay", why not? You're the one who bring Fairlay to the table, creating an impression here on this thread that I am not giving fairlay chance, and I shouldn't clarify the situation you created here? I should address your "accusation" on the other thread, while people reading your statement here might misunderstood what really happened, thanks to your statement? Yeah, very nice.

Now, Fairlay.

To say that we [or I] did not give them a chance to provide evidence is extremely misleading. They came, asking for arbitrator, the overseers suggest a panel of three mediators to maintain fairness, the player nominates two, Fairlay withdraw their request of arbitration for their own reason.

It's not the case of not giving fairlay a chance to prove themselves, they withdraw themselves before the mediation can even begin. The overseers of that thread regrets Fairlay's unilateral decision to withdraw. My last post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498092.msg64262736#msg64262736) on that thread clearly outlined the path I am planning to take, questions I prepared, suppose they go with mediation.

So, not giving a chance? Not, giving, a, chance? I can't think of any better word for your statement other than misleading [since throwing muds is apparently out of the window right now].

That said and clarified on this thread, if you have other dirty laundry to air about Fairlay, or other cases, feel free to bring it back up on the respective thread, I'll be more than happy to address you there.

Next, decision, decision. I believe I've answered that on previous post? I don't pass judgment, I don't make a ruling. Both on this thread and on Fairlay's thread, I didn't say which side I decide, with evidence or not, is right or wrong.

Here on this case, I simply help suggesting to OP to provide proof that can get him out of the situation, which... eagle-eyed overseer will easily understand that it's actually a double edged sword. If OP can provide what's asked, then there's a chance he's not guilty. If he refuses to provide, for questionable reason, then there are probably more than meet the eyes.

---

Thank you for waiting and sorry for the wall of text above, some things need to be cleared.

First of all, I would have to agree that you make a good point on post #107 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499584.msg64317500#msg64317500). Given HR letter and transfer instruction letter are out of question, if you can provide such documentation you mentioned on the post [perhaps the most important one will be the utility bill], it will very likely defeats the UK residency permit [as I'll assume you're yet to have one]. How possible is it to procure utility bill not only until 10th June [where this situation began] but to the date far beyond it, like July's bill perhaps? It'll rather more definitively shows that you're still here in LUX even after the situation.

Next, your draft, it's nicely written, and what I suggested might sound superfluous, but the idea I have in my mind is to "raise" your "bet" with Rollbit's staff who handle this case to a point he has to "check" [forgive the terms]. They probably already will reconsider to let you perform enhanced KYC with those documents you offered you'll provide, but what about raising the bet by to a point they're question their position by telling them that you're more than willing to do a video KYC at a random time [clearly should be done on LUX timezone, and at the time you'll likely to be available, so at 23:00 is clearly out of the table] at one or two hours notice?

So they don't have to give you the schedule ahead of time [this is what usually happen for a video verification, they give the date and time far ahead]. Rather, it's at one or two hours notice, of which you'll also offer to take the video call with LUX landmark being visible [perhaps a simple restaurant sign, street sign, billboard, or other thing that clearly shows you're in LUX]. I believe they'll have to agree that such feast is rather impossible if you currently resides in UK, to arrange a flight, buy a ticket, board, fly, land, and drive to a visible sign of LUX within two hours, not to mention clearing the immigration.

If I were the officer tasked to handle your case, I think I'll seriously consider your living situation in UK if you dared to provide such arrangement. The downside of this will be that you have to constantly monitor your email, waiting for their invitation, as the window is very narrow.

You raise a good point here, although I also have plenty of travel plans for the summer and probably will also need to account for them, not sure how feaseable it is considering that if they call and I come back with "I am away on holiday", I probably wont get another shot.

I think providing my water/energy bill for example for the month of June (latest I have) as well as for the month of July (I could potentially provide this in a couple of weeks) will be ample proof that I am still living in my house in LUX.

I really appreciate your inputs here, I will suggest to them for now that I provide the bills for June and July (when available) to prove that I am still in LUX.

Also, for transparency, this is the email I just sent to them.

Just to address your points one by one, I am able to prove that I still live and reside in Luxembourg and I can provide  rental agreement, utility bills, residence permit and even employment contract that will prove that I not only was living in Luxembourg at the time of opening the account, but I am still living in Luxembourg. I am also happy to share my utility bills for the months of June and July (when available) to prove that I am still living in Luxembourg.

The reason I do not use Wifi on my phone is that I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

Additionally, I would like to point out that allowing me to complete an exhaustive KYC will shed light to the questions you are asking and will clarify where I was when using the Rollbit account.

Very well written I think.
Also everything is basically explained good enough to at least make them hopefully look deeper into the whole thing. Refusing to see any evidence from your side would just look even more shady.
I mean what is the problem with hearing you out and look at the documents you are willing to provide, I really don't get it. They can't just judge and confiscate such a large about just because of their opinion it MIGHT be the right thing, it's ridiculous.

Hopefully they come to their senses and at least do the extended KYC, good luck for that!!

I understand.

Considering this, then your email on post #118 above is the best one so far to "challenge" them, persuading them to re-try your case, as well as not placing you in a rather difficult position. Please keep us posted on their reply.

this is another well written post. There is no reason for Rollbit to deny further evidence showing that the OP is innocent. If they refuse to consider, Rollbit is a must stay away book.


Quote from holydarkness

This is my last post in this thread since I've asked you to stop nitpicking my every post. I've also asked to take Fairlay to the Fairlay thread. You want to post it here. Now you are being untruthfull about Fairlay. Fairlay asked efaltis to arbitrate, he said "no". Fairlay asked me to recommend and arbiter. I recommended you since Fairlay wanted a sole arbiter so as not to post private information to the public. You didn't accept. They didn't want a 3 panel board since it stated in their email that they were looking for one arbiter. Paraphrasing, they wanted someone to apply so that they could be vetted and heard privately. You tried to force rules upon Fairlay to post publicly and a 3 man board would decide. Fairlay posted multiple times that they were looking for an arbiter to apply by email. Fairlay has all the evidence, but you decided to make a decision without any evidence. It's now all out there in public. The names, the teams and associations of the fixed matches. Some books are no longer accepting wagers from teams. I'm out.

I just got confirmation from my UK provider that my location will show in the UK when I am connecting from LUX.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/12/opH3m.png

It seems Rollbit Razer abandoned the topic after this posts he [they] thinks there are no need for anything else. Nothing better I can expect from them.

Fun fact: There are many members in the forum who are advertising Rollbit in their signature, you will see them making posts in other scam accusations but after 7 pages of comments you are not going see any posts from any of the signature campaign managers. You will also not going to see a comment from the members who joined the last UCL prediction pool because Rollbit was their sponsor.

OP, Petermario, it seems I have to derail your thread a bit. There is currently someone who apparently got butt-hurt for something that I accidentally did to him in the past, not sure what or where, but I guess he need to vent out a bit so...


Hmm... nitpicking your every post? This is awkward. Let's cross-check the fact here, shall we?

I believe it started here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499584.msg64311579#msg64311579), from page 5, perhaps from half part of page 4 where you actually began to insist on that residency and saying about someone playing as the book's lawyer, but I'll forgo that page as things were become more obvious on page 5.

I literally was not addressing your post, I replied in general upon OP's update, giving him suggestion that might help put things forward, as he asked. Of which you jump to criticize, insisting that I'm taking the book's side, probably without even trying to read and digest what I really suggested. So who exactly nitpick whose post?

And I'll add my personal opinion that it probably happened because at that point, it didn't matter much to you what I said, you're seeing red, all that matter to you at that time was to prove me wrong, as evidenced by how my repetitive attempt to clarify that what I try to do is to help OP disprove his previous statement of residency faced with a statement, "I’m out because no matter what I say, you aren’t changing your mind." and me making things difficult for him.

Prove me wrong that you're not seeing red and actually digest my post carefully, that you didn't made all of those post with sole agenda to paint me bad to the readers. What mind do you exactly wanted me to change? I'm giving OP suggestions to get things moved. You want me to change mind and start prosecuting OP, insisting that he's wrong? Wouldn't that lead to a situation where you'll say "as always, holy, you take side of the casino"?

You insisted that, according to the terms OP is not a resident or something. You claimed that you're familiar with sportsbetting, that it's your field. This whole territory situation should have been a familiar matter to you too, so it's kinda questionable how or why you insist on it. Is it because you're actually not familiar with how sportbooks terms work, or is it simply to enforce your agenda against me, to paint me black, that you're blinded?

And after all those, insisting that I [always] taking the book side and residency situation cleared, without bother to be brave enough to admit your mistake, faced with an undeniable proof through my PM to Razer, that I stay unbiased on this thread and attempting to achieve the best for every side, you once again didn't bother to own your mistake. Instead, you grasp another straw: fairlay. Which, on itself, is another lie inserted between facts in that situation.

As you wished and as I think will be better fit, I'll break things down on that thread, let it out in the public of what actually happened and what your narrative tries to spoon into peope's mind.

I won't mind people calling me names and will gracefully accept critic, input, and people pointing me out that I'm wrong [as evidenced by those "slander" you brushed], but when someone shoves wrong narrative about me? Expect me to strip those words and expose the truth behind it.

I've said my piece, in order to not derail [yet another] thread, I'll address you on PM or other thread you want to create about me if you want to, but I'll focus on OP's case on this thread... actually, I don't think you'll dare enough to address all of those points above, because it's all valid, and addressing it will directly make you admit you're wrong, which I understand that you won't make such statement. And that's fine. But answer me this: will this be what happen from this time forward? You trying to drive a narrative about me and paint me bad, breaching a topic being discussed in a thread instead of focusing on case being presented?

I need to know because if the answer is yes, then it'll be simpler to ignore you altogether, you'll be very detrimental to the development of any cases if you keep going like this, just as evidenced on this thread where you brought a [more than] rather useless points. Otherwise, air those laundry you have, and return to this board with cleared mind.

Oh, by the way, you don't need to shower people with merits to woo them into your side. They're grown ups, they've read and know better about the true nature of what you tried to do.

Well said.
Seems like Razor, as in any other accusation he replied in, doesn't deem it necessary to follow up stuff. Rollbit is always right and the customer is 100% at fault, always. Nice approach they are presenting here.
And about the signature guys, this also jumped out for me. When I represented BC and thought they handled the case wrong I also called them out and even spoke to the representative in private to find a good solution for both sides.

Even the rollbit campaign manager gave me an unpleasant feedback for calling the site out, basically feedback abuse.

I got a nice one from Hhampuz too just because I was not okay to join the UCL pool because I did not want Rollbit as the sponsor.
Many will say it's a neutral, so no hardtalk, easy to ignore. But it shows that when you protest something strongly, you will be given a feedback. When Rollbit is scamming selectively a mojor responsibility goes to Hhampuz and the signature campaign members.

Rollbit knows it better that sponsoring big events like UCL, running a long term signature campaign is always a good way to promote their site. Many of these members receive money from them so obviously they will not see the wrongs Rollbit plans to save their business. There used to be another sportbook Betnomi finally thought enough and then left the community. Let's just hope Rollbit does not follow the same path and they are not dishonest.

Womp womp, go start a club about it where you can combine your shit posts to perhaps come up with one decently, comprehensive post. It's tiring to get tagged by users like you two when you've never done anything of actual value around these parts. Just virtue signaling and word salads being forced upon other members.

Just read your post, it’s littered with personal attacks and untrue assumptions that I no longer care to address. Address the post, not the poster.

Edit- to clarify one point. When a poster must prove his innocence, that’s taking the book’s side. The book must prove guilt and they must have an airtight case. Rollbit doesn’t have solid proof and there isn’t even a claim of cheating.

For paycheck you are encouraging scammers to selectively scam and you are lecturing me what to do in the community. Go and get your shits together and plan for the next UCL [or EPL] sponsorship from Rollbit this time don't settle for lesser than $10k by the way. If the OPs claim is correct that $10K out from $64k is not a lot. Some of the forum members will gladly accept it as a form of prize. On the other hand you also have your share in the pocket.

I give you an advice [free of cost], ask Rollbit to solve the accusation in proper manners. You can not continue saving their ass like this for longer time if it starts getting worse.

You know what, I typed a couple of paragraph, vented my annoyance at your constant jabs at me on this thread, basically inquiring you to point us out to those post, amongst other things, and I realized that I'm tired. So I deleted them all.

I'm old and bored easily. I am here to get away from my IRL situation [my business deals with a lot of stress and stupid people, wanting to perform voodoo to people on hourly basis is a very gross understatement], I'm here as a form of release from those choking situation, to help the community, as the satisfaction I feel from having one case cleared, and made someone else's day better, help eases my annoyance toward the constant incompetence and stupidity people in my IRL seemingly have.

I'm not coming to the forum to derail someone's situation with kindergarten-worth of debate. I should feel ashamed for OP because I engaged on such discussion when he's in a situation that robbed his time and mental health.

Everyone else but you can see that I am here to help while still standing on neutral ground, everyone else understand that you mistook my attempt and accidentally misunderstood the "resident" term for casino [and hey, that's ok, we're all learning things here]. Perhaps some could see that you attacked me because you think I attacked the player, and you try to defend them, and that's acceptable [well... as long as people not blindly defending a side].

If you misunderstood my intent due to your bias that I'm always taking book side [which... is kinda a public secret that you perceive as such, you made it clear on many occasions and I'm ok with that] just say so, clarify it, and move on. That'll show you have far better integrity than grasping straws and slinging... a mixture of soil and water. The community will see you as better entity that way.

If you don't want to though, I'm fine with that too. Like I said, I'm done with this topic with you.

If you still have whatever grudge within you for whatever reason [honestly, I don't even have the faintest idea, you used to be fine with me] I'll suggest you to deal with it yourself, because next time we met on other thread, I am seeing you with a clean slate for the sake of the people on that threat [be it the player or the casino].

---

Hi, my apology, I should have address this matter sooner. I'm not trying to defend Razer, but as someone who [I think] had the last contact with Razer prior to his withdrawal from this thread, I should have explained it before. I've brushed it on post #96 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499584.msg64314799#msg64314799) about how the matter has been handled by compliance team and it's kinda out of his hand.

To re-summarize, since the matter got escalated to the compliance team [or whatever name they are], he let them deal with it without any of his influence. This --far as I know-- is also a practice done by other big casinos where even the higher-ups of the staff will not meddle once it came to the team's hand.

I guess I can page Razer to ask for follow ups for the case if any of you deemed that necessary, but I think what he can provide us is basically what OP can give (https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/09/ocnWC.png). I know that at a glance it sounds like he has malicious intent on this action, that it looks like a bad approach, and all. But on other occasion [perhaps this one included] it actually works in the player's favor.

I can't give much details for the concern of breaching privacy [I am somewhat understand if Razer refuses to have any PM with me from this point forward, given I "breached" two private matters in single thread], but a good example where Razer decision to step down from a case to give a better chance is on a behind the screen case where a player created an account, reached to me without having his thread, told me everything and asked me if I can reach Razer and get things sorted out.

Razer happened to be very familiar with the case as he's [IIRC] the one handling and being in communication with that player through previous channel. His decision is final. But, and for that very reason, he suggested me to suggest the player to write an email to their complaint team, where they will review it with decision that's independent from his.

So, in a way, I'd like to think that he actually gave the players a chance of having a different outcome by removing himself from a case.

While you are in Luxembourg and using your mobile data, getting that screenshot of whatismyipaddress.com to show the IP address will be an asset to you regardless of (and in addition to) the emails various telecoms have sent.

Though my opinion means nothing, Rollbit certainly could have handled this matter in a way that would have seemed more sensitive towards the dilemma the OP is facing. They must have their rules to follow but in the end they have to find a balance between their protocols and the customer/client when these situations arise.

Can you provide a link for where/when you called Rollbit out and as a result received the feedback abuse? I have known Hhampuz for many years and have never associated any sort of feedback abuse with him. He is one of just a tiny number of forum members that I would trust in real life.

Keeping that aside, if any casino or gaming website is doing the wrong thing, I am sure many members including those that wear signatures associated with them will ask questions and take a stand. Even though many Rollbit campaign participants have not been posting in this thread, the ones that did seem to have consensus that Rollbit are treating the OP unfairly.

I could be wrong but I do not think there is an automatic conspiracy by default between the websites promoted by signature participants and the wrongdoings of those websites. Having that mindset means almost every member in this forum is corrupt when the reality is to the contrary.

LOL, I don't even mention your name so you don't get offended, in other words, tagged my ass. So read your tags better before addressing me next time, thanks.
For once please make yourself useful and read this case ( you can read I assume ) and all the nonsense your oh so trustworthy casino partner is doing. And then just maybe you can take off your "I get paid by them" glasses and actually contact them to fix this case.

Why I even reply to somebody like you is already beyond me, guess I better mute you to not see this nonsense anymore. Have a nice life.

@ Jollygood: I have never dealt or anything with this clown but he gave me this feedback because in his opinion I don't have the right to openly call out rollbit for their shannanigans. They have a history of bs they did, starting with buying stolen stake.com VIP player data to send tailored bonus promotion mails to those users (I received 2 for 2 different stake account email addresses).
But whatever, I am don't with this person anyway, the way he acts in this forum, as a campaign manager, is just ridiculous.
Money over integrity.

Received a response from the Rollbit team, attached below.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/16/4uMb3.png

As expected, it seems they are holding on to the fact that I can´t prove I never moved to the UK. To clarify, I never admitted to playing from a restricted territory as they claim on their email.

I am trying to find a way to prove that I never moved and that I still live in Luxembourg, but it they wont accept my employment contract and my utility bills (including residence permit and rental agreement), I am not sure what they would deem as sufficient at this point.

I would really appreciate any ideas, I will share my draft reply to them here later today.

I was completely unaware of allegations about one casino using stolen data from another casino therefore cannot comment on it bit since you mentioned the neutral feedback you received without mentioning Hhampuz by name, I was curious to try to understand the background to the situation. In an earlier post you mentioned Hhampuz engaged in feedback abuse because you called Rollbit but you did not provide a link when I asked.

As for the money over integrity comment, I am sure you have strong feelings on this subject but how many people in the forum would disagree with your assessment? I would put the number likely very high. The way Hhampuz behaves in the forum is not as you describe, he is involved in putting thousands of USD$ in to the pockets of many forum members every week (which then contributes to making their lives more financially comfortable) therefore is a part of the economic cycle that drives this community.

Furthermore, I know of two campaigns Hhampuz unilaterally suspended because of customer/clients complaints against the companies involved (the latest being freebitcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5230893.msg64144764#msg64144764)) and not only that but also paying campaign participants from his pocket when he did not receive payment from another company.

If you had provided a link to back up your allegation of feedback abuse it would have made things clearer but you did not do it therefore nothing more can be added.

Overall, it does seem Rollbit have decided to take strong action against you and it really does seem unfair.

Even them stating you accessing their website from a restricted area even once equates to closure of account (as per their terms and conditions) seems bordering on the ridiculous because that would mean any verified/legitimate member living in a non-restricted area that frequently deposits and withdraws can have their account closed when they travel to a non-restricted area and simply login to check their account status.

Rollbit have not come out of this looking good but my contribution in this threads ends here. I have asked on more than one occasion for you to take a screenshot of your browser when you visited an IP displaying website but you are not doing it and furthermore simply ignore my posts. I hope this scam accusation gets resolved in your favour and you can withdraw your winnings.

@Jollygood, I didnt just ignore you, I provided this screenshot as you requested, and I can provide more if helpful (with screenshot of my location).

I just don't care enough to elaborate this any further because I know a certain person will start crying again when being mentioned.
And as i said, I now muted this person because I don't give 2 flying fks about what he is saying here or in any other thread.

Perhaps it's time to offer them what I proposed to you earlier? The random, two hours notice, video verification? If they insist that you're in London and there is no way you can prove you're still in LUX, such arrangement perhaps could convince them otherwise.

This case is a nightmare, impossible to prove from either side. I don't think Rollbit will be able to prove their claims, but I also don't think OP will be able to prove his (complete) innocence.

Here is why:

The casino's claim is that the player played from Spain and the UK, which are restricted territories. I am not going to go into the what is a resident, what is a citizen argument. According to my logic, if a territory is restricted, you are banned from playing there, regardless if you are a resident, citizen, or just visiting. Rollbit bases those claims on the player's IP addresses which are exclusively from the UK and Spain. Their argument is that the player was in those countries when he gambled at Rollbit.

The player has shown that is not necessarily true. His argument is that he uses Spanish and UK SIM cards that show his location to be in those countries even though he could be somewhere else. This was confirmed by his data providers. Here is where it gets complicated: Does this prove that the player is innocent and the casino is wrong? No. The player might have still visited restricted countries and played while he was there on top of playing while in Luxembourg. So, his gameplay can be a combination of both restricted and non-restricted territories or just the former or the latter.

I am not sure how much the documents proving he lives and pays bills in Luxembourg will help. They can't possibly prove that he never visited Spain and/or the UK and also gambled when he was there. Paying bills in country A doesn't mean you can't spend time in country B as well either on holiday, work, with friends, or loved ones. 

I am not sure if the following is feasible, but there might be a way to prove the locations from where he accessed his account.
That would be by proving which cell towers his phone connected to. GSM triangulation. If the player was located in Luxembourg, his phone couldn't have connected to UK and Spanish cell towers. I have no idea if the general public can obtain such information. @Petermario, you might have to get in touch with your data providers again and ask them that question. Perhaps even police and law enforcement need to be contacted. 

I am afraid you will spend so much time collecting all the other pieces of documents and Rollbit will just say, this isn't evidence that you were never in the UK and never played from there. Nothing that holydarkness has suggested to you is wrong or bad, but it may not be enough. Don't forget, Rollbit has a written statement that you said you reside in the UK, and they have UK IP addresses accessing your account. You said you weren't telling the truth about that, hoping it would help you withdraw the money from your account. Who says there aren't other instances where you also didn't tell the truth!? I am not saying you aren't (don't get me wrong), but I am saying it's a clusterfuck and a very complicated case, regardless how you look at it. 

I hope you manage to sort this out. I really do. It's a lot of money to lose, especially if everything you have said here is true.   

I always come back to if a book can’t prove guilt, then the player must be paid. It’s almost impossible to prove a negative. The OP has shown enough evidence to prove doubt.

Let me address the points that the Rollbit team raise in their email.

They double down on the fact that there is no way to prove that I currently DONT live in the UK, as they are refusing to accept any proof to this effect. However, the point is proving that throughout my use of the account, I was living in LUX (I still do) - all of the proof discussed previously (i.e. employment contract, utility bills, residence permit, Spanish ID) should suffice to prove that throughout my time at Rollbit, I was living in Luxembourg. So I understand if they don’t want to open my account back up (as they have doubts about my CURRENT living situation), but they should release my winnings as I can prove beyond any doubt that I was living in Luxembourg when using the account.

Moreover, to @Pmalek´s point, I understand that the burden of the proof lies with Rollbit, they are the ones that should be able to prove beyond any doubt that I breached their TOS. If not, what is stopping them from keeping the funds of all winning players, when they won’t accept the most fundamental proof otherwise?

Regarding @holydarkness´ proposal, I will raise it with them and see if they accept.

I will be sending here draft email of my response to their compliance team in a second.

See below draft email for the Rollbit team as well as reattaching their last email for reference.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/16/4uMb3.png

Hi Rollbit team,

I can provide ample proof that I still live in Luxembourg, being able to provide employment contract, utility bills, rental agreement, residence permit, Spanish ID, bank statement and other documentation you deem necessary. The point is that this documentation proves that I have been living in Luxembourg for the entirety of my time at Rollbit, thus confirming that I was not in breach of the TOS.

I understand if you don’t want to open my account back up given you have doubts about my CURRENT living situation (although all of the documentation I can provide should suffice to prove that, by living in Luxembourg, I can´t be living in the UK at the same time), but it should be sufficient to release my funds as I can prove beyond any doubt that I was living in Luxembourg when using the account.

Moreover, I am also willing to carry out a video KYC upon short notice, proving that I live in Luxembourg  (so you can be certain that I am still in Luxembourg), and provide all of the above documentation live (you would need to provide me sufficient time to gather all the documentation you deem necessary).

Rollbit is not changing their mind. Did you file a complaint with the licensor? The only way Rollbit will pay is by force.

Perhaps it'll be nice to also address the previous statement about being UK resident, explaining why you made that statement and "apologize" for the inconvenience it caused, that you mean no harm or to mislead the team, just a simple misunderstanding?

He already explained that saying he made no plays from the UK. The apologies should be made by Rollbit for the delay. The statement about the UK isn’t the cause of the delay. Rollbit’s implied making one bet from the UK allows them to steal $64k and they aren’t changing their mind. Rollbit hasn’t conclusively proved that plays were made from the UK. Seems the OP travels a lot and has been honest on his travels. These delays aren’t acceptable and only a few books use them. If other books can get these KYC checks done in a week or two, all books can get it done.

Its not that the KYC is taking so long, its that they are outright refusing to complete a KYC, as they know they cant argue against all of the documentation I can provide, this is the main problem.

Hello, I was scrolling around this forum and I noticed you are also having trouble with Rollbit, they also locked my account with well over $55k. Do you mind if we DM?

I think you should accept that Rollbit made their decision long ago and there isn't anything that you can supply that will change their mind. This is the first time that I've ever recommended an attorney. You need an attorney in Curacao that will work on contingency. If an attorney accepts on a contigency basis, you have a great chance to win. In a real court, Rollbit has to prove guilt.

I just sent them the email I sent here yesterday. If they still refuse to carry out a KYC, I dont think I have any other option than to do as you suggest and get a lawyer in their regulated jurisdicition. Although understandably this is the last thing I want to do as it will only draw out the process and demand a lot of from me (probably upfront costs and a lot of time).

Please feel free to pitch any other ideas if you have.

If they still refuse your request for KYC despite all of those efforts and email, I would... suggest to try to escalate them to CG or AG first before jumping straight to court room. Might safe your time and headache. They'll probably be able convince Rollbit to allow an enhanced KYC if you can present to the arbitrator those strong evidences that you're still a LUX resident.

If you have a scam accusation against Rollbit, please present your case clearly in a new thread. You can follow this scam report format (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260073.0).

That should be the last thing you do after you have exhausted all other possibilities. Before you do that, take holydarkness' advice and get in contact with Casino Guru and/or AskGamblers. If that doesn't work, check with the regulatory body of Rollbit.

Try to find a lawyer that will take your case on contingency. There’s no upfront cost but they will take a percentage of what you get paid. When lawyers take cases on contingency, they are fairly sure they will win. As far as holydarkness’ suggestion of Ask Gamblers and CG, I don’t trust either to side with you. Rollbit could fabricate something. If you lose with AG or CG, it kills your case in court. As said before, this is the first time I’ve suggested this route. Judges will side with you and your case is solid enough that a lawyer will take the case on contingency. Some rules in ToS won’t hold up in court. A few bets from the UK will not invalidate $64k winnings. The only way Rollbit pays $64k is if they are forced to pay.

Edit- just saw the post by Pmalek. A regulatory body may also work although on this case, I’d avoid AG and CG. There’s been some weird rulings by CG and you don’t want to hurt your case. If a court accepts AG or CG as an expert, your case is over.

He already has his own thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5503600.0). So far, the on-going narrative about his case is that his account being locked for investigation by third party. I assume it's their game provider, following a big win, which kinda normal procedure.

Edit: nope, was just reading the updated situation from his thread, it's about allegation of suspicious source of fund.

That's just the thing: we have no way of knowing that. All we have is our gut feeling whether or not OP is telling the truth. Only he knows if he is being honest or not. And if he is absolutely certain in his innocence, then it makes sense going down the road of a lawsuit.

@Petermario
Have you given any thought about what I said regarding GSM triangulation to try and prove the locations where you were physically when you accessed and played at Rollbit? Check with your data providers to see what they say on that subject and do some google searching.

My thinking is even if a court deemed that some plays came from the UK, only those bets would be cancelled. The others bets would stand. The way Rollbit wants to apply their ToS, if one play came from the UK, then they can take the whole $64k. AG and CR may agree that one play voids all winnings but a real court isn’t going to do that.

With your unwavering support and conviction about this I am surprised you aren't offering your services for this, considering the way you are talking about it. Your hatred for rollbit is just an added bonus!

We should stick to facts instead of personal attacks. Rollbit isn’t paying a player $64k because he may have played from a restricted country. This isn’t right and should be called out.

Edit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5481683.0 Rollbit has the most amount of cases in scam accusations the last 2 years. This is my worry.

To be fair, I think the status of the cases themselves also need to be put into consideration. My pure opinion, a casino with two dozens of accusations where twenty of them are resolved worth more trust than a casino with five or three cases where none of them are resolved. Not pointing out at any casino, I'm throwing random numbers there just to stress the importance of number of cases being resolved above the numbers of cases they have over the years.

First of all, I'll suggest you to do a quote properly next time. It's rather impressive that the quote pyramid you did actually doesn't reflect to the real post content of the user, i.e. the person didn't actually quote the other person.

Moving to address your point, what do you propose campaign managers do when a scam accusation or an issue appeared on this forum? Pausing their campaign immediately until it got resolved? I think we'll see a lot of pauses, then, since almost new scam accusations and issues with casinos, both valid and invalid, appear weekly.

Sorry about the pyramid scheme but I'm not saying that they should pause their campaign immediately. But at least they should help players on this forum solve issues. Take for instance, you'll hardly see campaign managers commenting on players' issues regarding a specific casino, and when they do, they immediately side with the casino without seeing the evidence.

Mind you, I'm not siding with either the player or the casino, but when a player presents evidence its expected for the casino to give a response.

I have seen a lot of your posts here and I like that you only act based on evidence without being biased or supporting the player or the casino.

Oh, on that case, you can rest assured that they do help, in a way or two, players to solve issues.

Not immediately, as their job-desc actually didn't require them to solve issues with player from the casinos which the campaign they manage and usually the casinos have representatives on the forum that's more capable and official to address the issues, but from time to time, when I hit a wall on trying to get a casino to address an issue, where I've exhausted many ways to notify the casino and got no result, and when I happen to know the campaign manager, I asked them to reach their contact at the casinos to notify them.

Thanks for the clear explanation. Let's hope everything gets better!

Just got another reply from the Rollbit team, they seem to not want to budge at all, as they won´t accept any proof I can provide. They don´t even accept to do the short notice video KYC as @holydarkness proposed

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/24/41vCN.png

At this point I think I am left with very few options. I though that maybe I could just send them over all the documentation through the email communication to prove that I am still living in Luxembourg (even though they have not asked for it), maybe this will persuade them.

From their email, it seems like their TOS are heavily skewed towards the website, how is it even acceptable that my winnings in Luxembourg are void and the whole account is closed down because they believe I am moving to a restricted region?, even if they understand that my winnings were from an unrestricted region like Luxembourg. I would understand if they warned you about connecting from unrestricted regions and gave you the chance to withdraw the funds given they are not regulated there - but outright closing the account and keeping all of the funds? It seems they are looking for any and every way to steal player´s funds.

I am running out of ideas, and maybe the most clear option is to contact a lawyer in Curacao to help me with the issue.

@Pmalek, I am looking into the GSM triangulation but my phone providers are yet to come back to me with any details, will let you know.

Well yes, ToS, in general, like every other ToS in our life, from washing machine warranty to your gym membership is there to mostly protect the second party [the provider] and guide the first party of what may or may not be done.

Sending them your whole documents proving that you're still in LUX might worth a shot here, since apparently we're at nothing-to-lose situation right now, perhaps also add another explanation, stressing that you previously made a wrong statement that you're a UK resident, that you never have been and yet to be one, that you're still in LUX, as on the email they seems to be under impression that you're now a UK resident.

I will reply to them attaching the following, let me know if you would include anything else: payslip for June and July, employment contract, Spanish ID, LUX residence permit, social security card, utility bills for June and July and tenancy agreement. I think this will prove beyond any doubt that I was living and still live in Luxembourg.

If this is indeed a concern with the regulator as they claim, all of the information I am providing and have provided will be sufficient for them as well in the eyes of the regulator.

Also see my draft email below, let me know if you agree or would include anything else:

Thank you for your response.

It seems like my statement might have caused some confusion. I am not residing or living in the UK (or London) and as I stated on my previous email this was a mistake on my part as I thought I would be able to withdraw the funds without completing KYC.

On this regard, please find attached the following documentation that proves that I am still a Luxembourg resident: payslip for June and July, employment contract, Spanish ID, LUX residence permit, social security card, utility bills for June and July as well as tenancy agreement. Being employed in Luxembourg, as well as proof of actually living there through utility bills, tenancy agreement, payslips and residence permit will prove beyond any doubt that not only was I living in Luxembourg throughout the use of my account, but that I still continue to live here.

Let me know if you need any further clarification, I am also happy to carry out an enhanced KYC or show you all of this documentation live.

Perhaps a bit overkill and I personally think someone doesn't need to go to such length [which I consider a rather private matter] just to prove their residency status, but what do you think about attaching your recent grocery receipt? One from a convenient store that happens to be around the corner where you live might be even better.

Thank you for your input, I have been away and have just sent the email to the Rollbit team, please see below the email I sent, I also attached a recent restaurant receipt in LUX as you suggested.

"Hi Rollbit team,

Apologies for the delayed reply, it seems like my statement might have caused some confusion. I am not residing or living in the UK (or London) and as I stated on my previous email this was a mistake on my part as I thought I would be able to withdraw the funds without completing KYC.

On this regard, I am willing to provide more than enough personal information to prove what my living condition is (going far and beyond what would be expected in a KYC process). Please find attached the following documentation that proves that I am still living and residing in Luxembourg: payslip for July, employment contract, Spanish ID, LUX residence permit, social security card, utility bills as well as tenancy agreement (and a recent restaurant receipt, the bank is also addressed to Luxembourg). Being employed in Luxembourg, as well as proof of actually living there through utility bills, tenancy agreement, payslips and residence permit will prove beyond any doubt that not only was I living in Luxembourg throughout the use of my account, but that I still continue to live here.

Let me know if you need any further clarification, I understand this is ample proof of my current (and previous) living condition. I am also happy to carry out an enhanced KYC or show you all of this documentation live."

I hope this can get resolved soon this way, as the proof I am providing is irrefutable. In case they come back with a negative reply, what could be my next steps?

Rollbit are still to reply to my email with all of the evidence and personal information in the previous post. Given they normally only took 1/2 days to reply, I am looking to explore other options to unblock my funds (I have been emailing them since June).

Do you have any recommendations?

Let me try to PM Razer and bring this to his attention, see if he can yell at someone on their legal department, if you don't mind? That's the best recommendation I have in mind right now. I am about to send him a PM about another situation, anyway. Do you mind to, perhaps, wait a little while I nudged him?

Sure, thank you

Lol! A Curaçao Gaming License holder wants to play by the book now  ;D when it comes to cashing out!
My only argument in this case is: why did they allow you to access the site from an unrestricted location? This question has not been answered sincerely by the casino in question. OP has already said many times that he had little control over his IP location and is willing to prove his residency in an authorized country. IMHO, the casino can certainly help him by cashing him out (if not for this bet legally, then through some other bonus or arrangement ;)) and closing his account. After that, they should enhance their geo-blocking system.
Common Rollbit! you know this is not fair (at least not morally), 64k might be a life changing money for him and all he is getting is frustration and feeling of helplessness, this is not good branding for sure.

It seems from recent posts here that they have recently boosted their geoblocking efforts, as I never received a pop-up that I was accessing from a restricted region when connecting in Luxembourg (with my Spanish phone provider), but it appears they have implemented this since (from screenshots I have seen in the forum).

I dont understand their sudden delay in replying to me (normally it was maximum 2 days and now it has been over a week), as the proof I have presented is completely irrefutable.

I've send Razer a PM yesterday, as promised, to see if he can ask someone on the complaint department to look and give response to your situation. Razer is yet to be online since 12th august, so perhaps a little more time will be needed, for him to be online and to notify my PM and give me insight from him of what he can or can not do.

Thank you for this, but still no reply. Do you suggest escalating this somewhere else? It seems suspicious that they take so long to reply once I provided the evidence that proves my case...

Hi, I would expect as much [no reply this far] as Razer seems to be offline. I think he was briefly online on 15th, but was unable to attend to any PM, given my inquiry about another situation is also not yet addressed.

About escalating this somewhere else... remind me again, to whom has you raised this dispute to?

It’s always a hard to believe or understand issue when your word is what needs trusting and there is a lot of money involved here. One sly move and you would have doubts stamped on everything you say which wouldn’t make the case any easier or better.

If OP is telling the truth, I would suggest he plays along with the Rollbit team as, they’ve been a reputable house on the forum for which most gamblers can attest.

Umm... I really don't mean to be rude, but... do you read the thread? All of the posts, or perhaps the last couple of pages to get a grasp of the current situation? OP is playing along with Rollbit, he corresponded with their compliance team, and currently they were silent. Of which, he asked me to try and see if I can get things back into motion.

So, again, with no intention to be rude as I currently don't think you're a spammer, what's the point of your post and/or you're trying to propose?

I have not received a reply yet...

I have not raised the dispute further either anywhere else, given that their compliance team seemed responsive, but I am reconsidering now - where would I be able to raise this?

After following up with them they have answered the following in red:

"Thank you for getting back to us.

Unfortunately, as mentioned, there is nothing that can be done to rectify the situation and to open the account.

We are considering the matter closed and will not communicate on it further."

I understand this is completely outrageous given all of the proof I have provided - where do you recommend I escalate this issue please?

Remind me again, do your bets consist of sport-betting? Rollbit is on CasinoGuru, of whom can probably help your case and retry it, but they don't mediate sport-betting related issues. It's worth a shot, though, perhaps if you tell them that your issue is about residency and not the betting themselves, they will want to mediate.

Know that the forum also adhere to their ruling. We're working side-by-side with them and honoring their final verdict. So when they come with their final words, all of us are bound by that ruling.

It is a mixture of everything, it is more a residency problem than anything else, I will look into opening up a case at CasinoGuru. Is there any other arbitration website you would use, or better to keep everything through one channel?

Umm... There are other arbitration site that as famous as CasinoGuru in facilitating dispute mediation, AskGamblers, but Rollbit is not available on AG. And there are other site that might have Rollbit, like casinoreviews [formerly ThePogg], I haven't check if they're on them, though, nor really familiar with their reputation in dispute resolution.

IIRC, there was an inquiry by other member far in the past to Rollbit to where can someone raise a dispute, and they suggest to raise it to their licensor. So, I think your option is between CG and their master licensor.

And no, it is not recommended to raise to both simultaneously. The master licensor is seen as the final path. When CG learn that you've escalate to their licensor, more likely than not, they will cease from mediating.

So it's completely your choice, either to have CG a try or to directly go to their licensor.

Thank you, I will start a dispute with CasinoGuru now, is it just raising it through their "complaints" section?

To be clear of any confusion, it should be through their "profile page (https://casino.guru/rollbit-casino-review#tab=js-tab-reputation)", clicking the "safety index explained" tab, and click the orange "submit a complaint" button as shown below:

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/09/07/BwWYD.jpeg

It'll most likely take a couple of days before the dispute can be deemed as fit for a complaint by their mediator and made available for public eyes.

Thank you very much, submitted the dispute a few days ago and it seems it is public now, I hope this can be resolved this way...

Link to the case on CG, so people here can access them easier: https://casino.guru/rollbit-casino-player-s-account-has-been-closed-without

OP, I gave it a read, I think it'll be wise to explain your situation with UK IP as well, since their system detect UK IP address on your session log. And it probably be better for them to learn it from you, before the fact unearth itself, so the mediator will see that you're trying to be as transparent as you can to get this case resolved and has nothing to hide.

Just as an update, my complaint has been deemed as "unresolved" by CasinoGuru as well, given that Rollbit refuse to budge or provide any reasonable explanation on stealing client's winnings.

I would caution anyone thinking of using the site to think twice, as they can confiscate all your winnings without further explanation.

Would also like to ask for any advice to move forward with this, is issuing a complaint directly with the regulator the only option?

Thank you for keeping us in the loop. Unfortunately, yes, I think the next path you can take right now will be to raise to their licensor. They're still under Curacaoan authority [previously they were with GC, now they're directly under GCB following the overhaul], however, GCB currently doesn't mediate dispute.

It will be a feature under CGA, the successor of GCB that'll centrally oversee all of gambling entities in Curacao, and AFAIK, the transition will happen in 2025. So unfortunately, you'll have to wait until GCB finally transformed to CGA to file a complaint.

Here is the CG's take on the case;
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/10/29/Ko0d5.jpeg

I do not understand what is stopping the casino in question from providing evidence to CG. If the nature of the case requires interpretation of certain evidence in order to establish violation of their policies, they should just provide it to CG. Here, in my humble opinion, the casino arbitrarily infers suitable conclusions while neglecting OP's point of view.
Not replying to a mediator only proves that the casino wants to hide malpractice, and it should serve as a deterrent to all future high rollers.     

So, I finally have some time to catch up with some things and gave the entire CG page a read. I have to say that yes, Rollbit acted a bit funny on this case and could have handled the matter in a more transparent way. Nonetheless, regardless of how they approached the case, as always, we're bound by the ADR's findings. Thus, I am marking this as "unresolved" as per CG's ruling.

Hopefully, OP, when CGA is fully operational, you can lodge a complaint, get things sorted out, and we can mark this as resolved. Kindly reach back to us when that situation [or any, related to any development of your case] happen.

Sorry for necromancing the thread.

OP, I am hoping that this bump reach you somehow, given your last active date was about one and a half months ago. Can you tell us whether you lodged a complaint to another governing body or perhaps escalating to court? Or were you waiting for CGA to be fully operational in hope that they'll accept dispute resolution?

Rollbit is a massive scam. They did the exact same thing to me and I've never had an account there.

They literally just don't pay winners and give you some b/s response about AML or KYC. I passed KYC level 2 as well and they gave me no reason for holding $30k which is now 60k due to the price of eth.

Did you find anything that helped you? I am not letting this go. We should all team up together and do something.