Account wiped with $64k on Rollbit.com

[Rating Place]

[...]
And I'm glad you're talking about me being confused about resident. I wanted to brush over it when you talked about it before, but decided against it. Now that you're talking about it again... are you sure you're understand the term about "resident" here? Is it perhaps [it actually crosses my mind and I've been really curious] you mixed "resident" with "citizen"?

To make things clear, my understanding about "resident" on this specific matter, as well as what I believe applied by many [if not all] casino is not about people's nationality, it's about where their feet set place when they accessed the casino. Couple of casinos even describes nicely to me that [I don't recall the exact nation each of them gave me, but let's just throw random names and random casino here for illustration purpose] suppose a Londoners plays at Rollbit from his home, this is a violation of ToS. But when that Londoners, someone with UK citizenship, fly to Singapore or to Japan and accessed Rollbit, it's acceptable. Likewise, when a Singaporean or Japanese is on UK soil, they are not allowed to play on Rollbit despite their nationality and/or they're only staying for a short moment that the official rule of a country group them as a tourist instead of a resident.
[...]

Resident is different than citizen. It really doesn't even matter since it all occurred after play. If you are living somewhere, it doesn't make you a "resident".

Permanent residence (PR) in the UK means that you can live, work and study here indefinitely without the need to apply for a new visa. PR in the UK is also known as Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). One of the key requirements for UK PR is, in most cases, you must have continuously resided in the UK for at least 5 years. However, the specific duration required for obtaining UK PR status depends on the type of UK visa you possess. For instances, holders of the Innovator Founder Visa or the Global Talent Visa may be eligible to apply for UK PR (ILR) after just 3 years. The most common immigration routes that qualify for UK residency are as follows:

Family visa: 5 years
Work visa: 5 years
Business visa: 3 to 5 years
Long residence to ILR: 10 years

https://immigrationlawyers-london.com/uk-residency.php

Did you... even read my long text? Yeah, I know it's long and boring, perhaps can be shortened out to few paragraphs, but those entire paragraphs consist of all of crucial information. The bottomline, though, casino's [many casino, not just rollbit] term for "residency" simply refers to the place when someone accessed their platform.

It's not about duration [I've explained above, not sure if you actually read them], it's about where your feet stepped on. The instance you step on UK, you're not allowed to play. The instance a Londoner leave UK, they're allowed to play.

And if it helps [few of that "long paragraph about this" I brushed earlier, of which I've actually explained once or twice in the past], those restriction and rules is not because a casino doesn't want to do business with a country. It's not because Rollbit hates The Queen, or Biden, they simply have that rule in order to be compliant to the country's rule.

They don't have a permit to conduct business in UK and those other territory. They can't legally cater a round of BJ for a Japanese tourist who visited UK because they don't have legal body and permit to cater gambling activity in UK.

If you still insist on those residency and visa as the one that apply, then I give up. I don't think that worth my energy. I'll advise you to familiarize with threads on this board, though. Those situation with "residency" and what they're defined according to casinos [thus, indirectly, this board] has been discussed on several cases.

How would you rule as is? Rollbit has IP. OP has resident, rental agreement and bank statements saying he's a LUX resident at the time of his play.

Rollbit should geo-block instead of tricking posters.

I read your stuff but it doesn't matter. I took the resident argument from AHOY. Go with your definition of resident. The OP moved. It would have been better if you sent it for better chance of reply, but I sent this

Hey Razer,

The thread is getting fairly long on the $64k case. Is there anything that the OP can provide, per suggestions in the thread, that will help his case or is the decision final by Rollbit? Thanks

[holydarkness]

How would you rule as is? Rollbit has IP. OP has resident, rental agreement and bank statements saying he's a LUX resident at the time of his play.

that's exactly what I tried to convey and made you understand. That's what I suggested OP to submit to disprove his own statement. For the love of all holy and dark being. Let me try again,

OP made a bad decision by giving a statement that he's a UK resident. Regardless of the meaning of resident that OP gave, be it an extended stays, a short visit, one [week] night stand, he admitted to Rollbit that he's in UK. OP instantly violates Rollbit's ToS by his own statement because they'll assume OP accessed Rollbit with those two big feet of his on Canary Wharf or somewhere else. It further proven by Rollbit's detection of IP that's pinged to UK instead of LUX.

As it seems Rollbit uses this against OP, I proposed OP to disprove his own statement, that he's not staying more than what his working hours require, and commutes back to LUX when it's over [thus, the chance to actually play from UK is significantly smaller compared to if he's there for extended period like being on permanent basis]. I honestly don't know what to suggest to OP if Rollbit asked him to prove that he's truly never, not even once, played from UK, perhaps during his lunch break, and I really hope we don't have to come that way. Though I've propose it to you, suppose you have a good way for OP to prove this.

I read your stuff but it doesn't matter. I took the resident argument from AHOY. Go with your definition of resident.

Oh? What did Ahoy said about resident?

AHOYBRAUSE, my apology, it seems you're dragged into this [I assume] rather unwillingly. But do you mind to tell us what exactly the definition of residency you gave to Peeps?

And no, Peeps, it's not my opinion, it's an explanation from several casinos. It is what applies throughout casinos. I am not the one who make that rule according to myself. It's simply a "fact" of definition agreed amongst casinos.

The OP moved. It would have been better if you sent it for better chance of reply, but I sent this

Hey Razer,

The thread is getting fairly long on the $64k case. Is there anything that the OP can provide, per suggestions in the thread, that will help his case or is the decision final by Rollbit? Thanks

Cancel all the bets from the UK

Spain: 1,420 (75.85%)
United Kingdom: 442 (23.61%)
Other (mostly attributed to VPN activity): 0.54%

Great. I wished you good luck and we can hear from Razer from your side.

[Rating Place]

How would you rule as is? Rollbit has IP. OP has resident, rental agreement and bank statements saying he's a LUX resident at the time of his play.

that's exactly what I tried to convey and made you understand. That's what I suggested OP to submit to disprove his own statement. For the love of all holy and dark being. Let me try again,

OP made a bad decision by giving a statement that he's a UK resident. Regardless of the meaning of resident that OP gave, be it an extended stays, a short visit, one [week] night stand, he admitted to Rollbit that he's in UK. OP instantly violates Rollbit's ToS by his own statement because they'll assume OP accessed Rollbit with those two big feet of his on Canary Wharf or somewhere else. It further proven by Rollbit's detection of IP that's pinged to UK instead of LUX.

As it seems Rollbit uses this against OP, I proposed OP to disprove his own statement, that he's not staying more than what his working hours require, and commutes back to LUX when it's over [thus, the chance to actually play from UK is significantly smaller compared to if he's there for extended period like being on permanent basis]. I honestly don't know what to suggest to OP if Rollbit asked him to prove that he's truly never, not even once, played from UK, perhaps during his lunch break, and I really hope we don't have to come that way. Though I've propose it to you, suppose you have a good way for OP to prove this.

I read your stuff but it doesn't matter. I took the resident argument from AHOY. Go with your definition of resident.

Oh? What did Ahoy said about resident?

AHOYBRAUSE, my apology, it seems you're dragged into this [I assume] rather unwillingly. But do you mind to tell us what exactly the definition of residency you gave to Peeps?

And no, Peeps, it's not my opinion, it's an explanation from several casinos. It is what applies throughout casinos. I am not the one who make that rule according to myself. It's simply a "fact" of definition agreed amongst casinos.

The OP moved. It would have been better if you sent it for better chance of reply, but I sent this

Hey Razer,

The thread is getting fairly long on the $64k case. Is there anything that the OP can provide, per suggestions in the thread, that will help his case or is the decision final by Rollbit? Thanks

Cancel all the bets from the UK

Spain: 1,420 (75.85%)
United Kingdom: 442 (23.61%)
Other (mostly attributed to VPN activity): 0.54%

Great. I wished you good luck and we can hear from Razer from your side.

Sportsbet.io

Restricted jurisdictions are specific countries or territories that are restricted by our gaming license, and as a result, users located in or from these regions are prohibited from registering and playing on Sportsbet.io.

Stake

14.3 Persons located in or reside in

Pinnacle

and any other country which may prohibit the offering of online gambling to its residents or to any person within such country

Stake, Sportsbet and Pinnacle all use "or", meaning there is a difference. Even if I'm wrong on "resident", for the sake of argument, you are just looking for gotcha moments just like any scam book looks for one little thing to hold on too. Look for reasons to pay the player, not for reasons not to pay the player. For the 100th time, he said he was a resident after playing, not while he was playing. You're looking for another gotcha moment for the book by repeating over and over again a clip of what a poster said, ignoring that he said after playing he became a resident. Who would you rule for at this point? I noticed you are avoiding it.

How did he play from UK?

[holydarkness]

Sportsbet.io

Restricted jurisdictions are specific countries or territories that are restricted by our gaming license, and as a result, users located in or from these regions are prohibited from registering and playing on Sportsbet.io.

Stake

14.3 Persons located in or reside in

Pinnacle

and any other country which may prohibit the offering of online gambling to its residents or to any person within such country

Stake, Sportsbet and Pinnacle all use "or", meaning there is a difference. Even if I'm wrong on "resident", for the sake of argument, you are just looking for gotcha moments just like any scam book looks for one little thing to hold on too. Look for reasons to pay the player, not for reasons not to pay the player. For the 100th time, he said he was a resident after playing, not while he was playing. You're looking for another gotcha moment for the book by repeating over and over again a clip of what a poster said, ignoring that he said after playing he became a resident. Who would you rule for at this point? I noticed you are avoiding it.

How did he play from UK?

[image snip]

Oh, look at that, some casinos actually made a better detailed ToS regarding restricted territory and residency. When the case initially arised and I gave an explanation about how those residency works according to some casinos' representative, IIRC, there was some interesting discussion about how will it affect the player's financial report, tax-wise. I guess this tackles it, so kudos to SB, Stake, and Pinnacle.

Now, moving to your post, that quotes above prove that you are wrong, not just for the sake of argument, it is the fact. It's clearly written, what three of them [and other casinos, though they might not as detailed as above] consider as a resident is someone who located in or within the country. It doesn't need those earlier requirement of residency you insisted and persistently lectured me. The second someone set foot on that soil, they're considered to be located in or within that territory. I'm not here to rub it in, though, so I take that topic to rest, glad it's cleared to you.

Next... me and gotcha moment? Looking for a little thing to hold on to? What do you even mean by these? If I have to repeat, which you can prove yourself by re-reading the entire thread [this time, try to not wearing that myopic glasses of "holy always taking side of the books"] I literally tries to get OP free from this "hold". I suggested ways for him to show Rollbit that his case worth reconsidering, that he didn't breach ToS here. I suggested way for OP to convince Rollbit to pay the player. Get that "Holy always side with casino" idea from your head, and you'll start to see this thread from different perspective.

As for who will I rule for at this point and me avoiding that question? First, I'm not avoiding it. It's missed simply and purely because I don't even realize it's a question. And second, as I've also repetitively answered on way too many different occasions, I am not calling a decision/ruling. I deemed myself not wise enough to know what transpires behind each and every cases, both sides always hide something, so I prefer to questions and ask for proof until one thing became evident.

For the sake to prove it to you [and anyone who questions my side, though I honestly think it's just you] that I am not defending Rollbit or that I didn't have OP's best interest at heart ¹, here, it's what I wrote to Razer when OP gave me a go.




¹guess sharing my side of PM is allowed and won't be considered as a breach of privacy? And if I am not mistaken, the rule said sharing it for the sake of investigation is allowed? Well, since I am being investigated here...

[M1cha3lM]

How would you rule as is? Rollbit has IP. OP has resident, rental agreement and bank statements saying he's a LUX resident at the time of his play.

that's exactly what I tried to convey and made you understand. That's what I suggested OP to submit to disprove his own statement. For the love of all holy and dark being. Let me try again,

OP made a bad decision by giving a statement that he's a UK resident. Regardless of the meaning of resident that OP gave, be it an extended stays, a short visit, one [week] night stand, he admitted to Rollbit that he's in UK. OP instantly violates Rollbit's ToS by his own statement because they'll assume OP accessed Rollbit with those two big feet of his on Canary Wharf or somewhere else. It further proven by Rollbit's detection of IP that's pinged to UK instead of LUX.

As it seems Rollbit uses this against OP, I proposed OP to disprove his own statement, that he's not staying more than what his working hours require, and commutes back to LUX when it's over [thus, the chance to actually play from UK is significantly smaller compared to if he's there for extended period like being on permanent basis]. I honestly don't know what to suggest to OP if Rollbit asked him to prove that he's truly never, not even once, played from UK, perhaps during his lunch break, and I really hope we don't have to come that way. Though I've propose it to you, suppose you have a good way for OP to prove this.

I read your stuff but it doesn't matter. I took the resident argument from AHOY. Go with your definition of resident.

Oh? What did Ahoy said about resident?

AHOYBRAUSE, my apology, it seems you're dragged into this [I assume] rather unwillingly. But do you mind to tell us what exactly the definition of residency you gave to Peeps?

And no, Peeps, it's not my opinion, it's an explanation from several casinos. It is what applies throughout casinos. I am not the one who make that rule according to myself. It's simply a "fact" of definition agreed amongst casinos.

The OP moved. It would have been better if you sent it for better chance of reply, but I sent this

Hey Razer,

The thread is getting fairly long on the $64k case. Is there anything that the OP can provide, per suggestions in the thread, that will help his case or is the decision final by Rollbit? Thanks

Cancel all the bets from the UK

Spain: 1,420 (75.85%)
United Kingdom: 442 (23.61%)
Other (mostly attributed to VPN activity): 0.54%

Great. I wished you good luck and we can hear from Razer from your side.

Sportsbet.io

Restricted jurisdictions are specific countries or territories that are restricted by our gaming license, and as a result, users located in or from these regions are prohibited from registering and playing on Sportsbet.io.

Stake

14.3 Persons located in or reside in

Pinnacle

and any other country which may prohibit the offering of online gambling to its residents or to any person within such country

Stake, Sportsbet and Pinnacle all use "or", meaning there is a difference. Even if I'm wrong on "resident", for the sake of argument, you are just looking for gotcha moments just like any scam book looks for one little thing to hold on too. Look for reasons to pay the player, not for reasons not to pay the player. For the 100th time, he said he was a resident after playing, not while he was playing. You're looking for another gotcha moment for the book by repeating over and over again a clip of what a poster said, ignoring that he said after playing he became a resident. Who would you rule for at this point? I noticed you are avoiding it.

How did he play from UK?

The hard block restriction for UK users was only recently added, (around the middle of June afaik), priror to that there was a warning as follows:
"For legal reasons, this website and its services are not available in your country. If you are using a VPN, please disable it and try again" - This message would appear every time the user loaded the site, and they would have to close the notification in order to use the site.

The hard block for UK users as mentioned has only recently been put in place, likely to better direct users to the upcoming UK Rollbit site.


From my knowledge of sites, although its stated that you must reside in the allowed region, if you are using the site from a restricted region (the OP admitted to playing in from the UK) that is also a breach of the TOS as the site does not have a license to allow the user to play there.

[JollyGood]

I did not know whether Rollbit accepted the contents of the email and either way adding a screenshot of the output from his phone browser will not take time. Still, if that part of the issue has been resolved because Rollbit have accepted it, that is a good thing and the other issues can be addressed.

Part of what this incident has shown is that the terms and conditions can (rightly or otherwise) be used as and how any casino deems fit. Though not specific to this case, what seems to be the case is that if a member has used the service to deposit and withdraw from an accepted location there is no problem but on a few occasions for example while travelling to a location for a holiday or family visit to a restricted location and decided to either place a bet or withdraw, it could cause a problem but depositing funds from restricted areas would not be a problem until they use it as part of their case to withhold funds.

Add to that the issues of EU roaming IP addresses then the matter becomes more complex because casinos can apply their terms and conditions with any interpretation they want.

I am new to this thread but have read up on most of the details and do feel sympathy for you because $64,000 is a lot of money.[...]

Umm... the situation with Spanish provider is --I believe-- already cleared and it's no longer an issue. Vodavone gave an official email, explaining that even if OP accessed the internet from LUX, his IP will still show as ES.

[Petermario]

First of all, thank you all for your inputs.

To address the Wifi point, I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as even youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

Moreover, I appreciate that the documentation @holydarkness suggests would be very helpful. However, the only way for me to prove a negative (prove that I am not residing in the UK) would be for me to provide my latest utility bills showing that I am actually living at my place in LUX. I wouldnt have a way to gather the documentation you suggest, as I am not yet officially moving (it has been agreed with my boss but they havent kicked off the internal HR process) - I stated I already resided in the UK as I naively thought that this way I would be able to get away with withdrawing the funds without completing KYC.

On the IP issue with the UK, the reply will be the same as for the Spanish provider, but they are still to get back to me with a more detailed response (I will update here once they do). I have to stay that I brought up me travelling frequently to the UK to explain why I have a UK SIM, not to imply that I ever played while there (although I dont think there is any way for me to prove otherwise). As the same questions can be raised as to if I ever played from Spain (which I didnt).

Provided they have accepted the IP location part, I believe my strongest defence is proving that I actually live in LUX, providing the residence permit, my rental agreement and monthly bills, my Spanish ID and my employment contract if necessary - this will place me in LUX at all times.

[Rating Place]

How would you rule as is? Rollbit has IP. OP has resident, rental agreement and bank statements saying he's a LUX resident at the time of his play.

that's exactly what I tried to convey and made you understand. That's what I suggested OP to submit to disprove his own statement. For the love of all holy and dark being. Let me try again,

OP made a bad decision by giving a statement that he's a UK resident. Regardless of the meaning of resident that OP gave, be it an extended stays, a short visit, one [week] night stand, he admitted to Rollbit that he's in UK. OP instantly violates Rollbit's ToS by his own statement because they'll assume OP accessed Rollbit with those two big feet of his on Canary Wharf or somewhere else. It further proven by Rollbit's detection of IP that's pinged to UK instead of LUX.

As it seems Rollbit uses this against OP, I proposed OP to disprove his own statement, that he's not staying more than what his working hours require, and commutes back to LUX when it's over [thus, the chance to actually play from UK is significantly smaller compared to if he's there for extended period like being on permanent basis]. I honestly don't know what to suggest to OP if Rollbit asked him to prove that he's truly never, not even once, played from UK, perhaps during his lunch break, and I really hope we don't have to come that way. Though I've propose it to you, suppose you have a good way for OP to prove this.

I read your stuff but it doesn't matter. I took the resident argument from AHOY. Go with your definition of resident.

Oh? What did Ahoy said about resident?

AHOYBRAUSE, my apology, it seems you're dragged into this [I assume] rather unwillingly. But do you mind to tell us what exactly the definition of residency you gave to Peeps?

And no, Peeps, it's not my opinion, it's an explanation from several casinos. It is what applies throughout casinos. I am not the one who make that rule according to myself. It's simply a "fact" of definition agreed amongst casinos.

The OP moved. It would have been better if you sent it for better chance of reply, but I sent this

Hey Razer,

The thread is getting fairly long on the $64k case. Is there anything that the OP can provide, per suggestions in the thread, that will help his case or is the decision final by Rollbit? Thanks

Cancel all the bets from the UK

Spain: 1,420 (75.85%)
United Kingdom: 442 (23.61%)
Other (mostly attributed to VPN activity): 0.54%

Great. I wished you good luck and we can hear from Razer from your side.

Sportsbet.io

Restricted jurisdictions are specific countries or territories that are restricted by our gaming license, and as a result, users located in or from these regions are prohibited from registering and playing on Sportsbet.io.

Stake

14.3 Persons located in or reside in

Pinnacle

and any other country which may prohibit the offering of online gambling to its residents or to any person within such country

Stake, Sportsbet and Pinnacle all use "or", meaning there is a difference. Even if I'm wrong on "resident", for the sake of argument, you are just looking for gotcha moments just like any scam book looks for one little thing to hold on too. Look for reasons to pay the player, not for reasons not to pay the player. For the 100th time, he said he was a resident after playing, not while he was playing. You're looking for another gotcha moment for the book by repeating over and over again a clip of what a poster said, ignoring that he said after playing he became a resident. Who would you rule for at this point? I noticed you are avoiding it.

How did he play from UK?

The hard block restriction for UK users was only recently added, (around the middle of June afaik), priror to that there was a warning as follows:
"For legal reasons, this website and its services are not available in your country. If you are using a VPN, please disable it and try again" - This message would appear every time the user loaded the site, and they would have to close the notification in order to use the site.

The hard block for UK users as mentioned has only recently been put in place, likely to better direct users to the upcoming UK Rollbit site.


From my knowledge of sites, although its stated that you must reside in the allowed region, if you are using the site from a restricted region (the OP admitted to playing in from the UK) that is also a breach of the TOS as the site does not have a license to allow the user to play there.

thanks for the clarification. If the OP admits to playing from the UK, the penalty seems stiff that all winnings can be confiscated. I think it more fair to void winnings while in restricted areas. If he won all his money while in LUX and then starts playing from the UK, he should be paid winnings.

[Petermario]

Additionally Rollbit argues that

"However, that point is moot as you have admitted to living in the UK, a restricted territory. Even if you were able to produce documents that you have recently lived in Luxembourg, there is no way for you to prove that you do not currently live in the UK after admitting it to us twice."

Proving that I am still living in LUX will by consequence prove that I currently do NOT live in the UK.

[Rating Place]

Sportsbet.io

Restricted jurisdictions are specific countries or territories that are restricted by our gaming license, and as a result, users located in or from these regions are prohibited from registering and playing on Sportsbet.io.

Stake

14.3 Persons located in or reside in

Pinnacle

and any other country which may prohibit the offering of online gambling to its residents or to any person within such country

Stake, Sportsbet and Pinnacle all use "or", meaning there is a difference. Even if I'm wrong on "resident", for the sake of argument, you are just looking for gotcha moments just like any scam book looks for one little thing to hold on too. Look for reasons to pay the player, not for reasons not to pay the player. For the 100th time, he said he was a resident after playing, not while he was playing. You're looking for another gotcha moment for the book by repeating over and over again a clip of what a poster said, ignoring that he said after playing he became a resident. Who would you rule for at this point? I noticed you are avoiding it.

How did he play from UK?

[image snip]

Oh, look at that, some casinos actually made a better detailed ToS regarding restricted territory and residency. When the case initially arised and I gave an explanation about how those residency works according to some casinos' representative, IIRC, there was some interesting discussion about how will it affect the player's financial report, tax-wise. I guess this tackles it, so kudos to SB, Stake, and Pinnacle.

Now, moving to your post, that quotes above prove that you are wrong, not just for the sake of argument, it is the fact. It's clearly written, what three of them [and other casinos, though they might not as detailed as above] consider as a resident is someone who located in or within the country. It doesn't need those earlier requirement of residency you insisted and persistently lectured me. The second someone set foot on that soil, they're considered to be located in or within that territory. I'm not here to rub it in, though, so I take that topic to rest, glad it's cleared to you.

Next... me and gotcha moment? Looking for a little thing to hold on to? What do you even mean by these? If I have to repeat, which you can prove yourself by re-reading the entire thread [this time, try to not wearing that myopic glasses of "holy always taking side of the books"] I literally tries to get OP free from this "hold". I suggested ways for him to show Rollbit that his case worth reconsidering, that he didn't breach ToS here. I suggested way for OP to convince Rollbit to pay the player. Get that "Holy always side with casino" idea from your head, and you'll start to see this thread from different perspective.

As for who will I rule for at this point and me avoiding that question? First, I'm not avoiding it. It's missed simply and purely because I don't even realize it's a question. And second, as I've also repetitively answered on way too many different occasions, I am not calling a decision/ruling. I deemed myself not wise enough to know what transpires behind each and every cases, both sides always hide something, so I prefer to questions and ask for proof until one thing became evident.

For the sake to prove it to you [and anyone who questions my side, though I honestly think it's just you] that I am not defending Rollbit or that I didn't have OP's best interest at heart ¹, here, it's what I wrote to Razer when OP gave me a go.




¹guess sharing my side of PM is allowed and won't be considered as a breach of privacy? And if I am not mistaken, the rule said sharing it for the sake of investigation is allowed? Well, since I am being investigated here...

you can’t make an easy decision now with all the evidence out yet you did it with Fairlay without giving them a chance to provide evidence. Names, teams, associations are now publicly posted of the fixed matches.

The OP has rental agreement, residence and bank statements. There is nothing that can trump that. This decision can be made now. How would you rule right now if you were the arbitrator and there is nothing else to be presented?

Let’s not talk further about Fairlay. That can be done in the other thread if wanted.

[Petermario]

Please see below my draft reply for the Rollbit team, I will be addressing their points one by one in red. Do you suggest I add more content to my email?

"Thank you for getting back to us."

"Talking about this case in a forum is not part of the official complaints process, so we won't be providing replies through that medium, only here."

"Upon further investigation it would indeed appear that it is possible for a mobile data package to determine your IP based geolocation."

"However, that point is moot as you have admitted to living in the UK, a restricted territory. Even if you were able to produce documents that you have recently lived in Luxembourg, there is no way for you to prove that you do not currently live in the UK after admitting it to us twice."
I am able to provide rental agreement, utility bills, residence permit and even employment contract that will prove that I not only was living in Luxembourg at the time of opening the account, but I am still living in Luxembourg.

"Furthermore, there is no IP based evidence that would place you in Luxembourg. It is extremely likely that you would have at least one IP hit over this period of time that would connect you to Luxembourg, but we fail to locate one."

"Is there a reason why you always use mobile data, and do not connect to a Wifi network even in your own home?"
I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as even youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

"We look forward to hearing from you."

Additionally, I would like to point out that allowing me to complete an exhaustive KYC will shed light to the questions you are asking and will clarify where I was when using the Rollbit account.

[holydarkness]

OP, I'm on a very tiny screen of a mobile phone right now and it's rather inconvenient to type on this and it will probably take me around two or three hours before I can access the forum from my usual device. In case you're about to send that reply, do you mind to hold until I can make a proper post? I might have something to add that's helpful

[Petermario]

OP, I'm on a very tiny screen of a mobile phone right now and it's rather inconvenient to type on this and it will probably take me around two or three hours before I can access the forum from my usual device. In case you're about to send that reply, do you mind to hold until I can make a proper post? I might have something to add that's helpful

Sure, I can hold off until you get back

[JollyGood]

Even though you are in Luxembourg it should show a Spanish IP address, this is a very simple thing for you to do. I understand the point about unlimited data on your sim therefore you have no need to use wifi however you could have taken screenshot of what you see when you open the following website: whatismyipaddress.com

To address the Wifi point, I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as even youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

For clarity, if you are currently in Luxembourg, can you use your phone with your regular Spanish sim and open a browser without using any sort of VPN and then take a screenshot of what you see when you visit this website: https://www.whatismyip.com

According to the screenshots you provided earlier, it should be showing a Spanish IP address because of EU regulations (even though most would have thought it would be a local Luxembourg IP address) but a screenshot can settle the issue.

[Petermario]

Even though you are in Luxembourg it should show a Spanish IP address, this is a very simple thing for you to do. I understand the point about unlimited data on your sim therefore you have no need to use wifi however you could have taken screenshot of what you see when you open the following website: whatismyipaddress.com

To address the Wifi point, I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as even youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

For clarity, if you are currently in Luxembourg, can you use your phone with your regular Spanish sim and open a browser without using any sort of VPN and then take a screenshot of what you see when you visit this website: https://www.whatismyip.com

According to the screenshots you provided earlier, it should be showing a Spanish IP address because of EU regulations (even though most would have thought it would be a local Luxembourg IP address) but a screenshot can settle the issue.

Please find snip attached, I covered the IP for security - it shows I am in Spain.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/12/obf7J.jpeg

[holydarkness]

OP, my reply to you is at the last part of this post.

I did not know whether Rollbit accepted the contents of the email and either way adding a screenshot of the output from his phone browser will not take time. Still, if that part of the issue has been resolved because Rollbit have accepted it, that is a good thing and the other issues can be addressed. [...]

To be fair, they said that the point is moot since OP admitted of being a resident of UK, so whether they accept it or not is actually still unclear, but the paragraph [IMO] should be safe to be translated as a corporate language to say that they acknowledge that their previous call is unfounded and to be revoked.

thanks for the clarification. If the OP admits to playing from the UK, the penalty seems stiff that all winnings can be confiscated. I think it more fair to void winnings while in restricted areas. If he won all his money while in LUX and then starts playing from the UK, he should be paid winnings.

In case you somehow still don't get it, be it due to miscommunication, misunderstanding, or your post this far is just an attempt to prove me wrong for whatever reason, instead of doing what you claimed you always do [helping the player], that is what we [well, other people and I, not sure about you] try to do.

OP said he just made up that statement [and I'll say again, just to be clear of any confusion of my stance regarding this very particular part, not sure why OP made it and what's the outcome he expected] just to get away with KYC. He's in LUX the whole time, he's yet to be UK resident. That's what I tries to help and provide to OP, a suggestion to [dis]prove his UK residency.

And in case that above is still doesn't able to penetrate your skull, here, OP gets it, this is what we try to achieve,

[...]
Proving that I am still living in LUX will by consequence prove that I currently do NOT live in the UK.

you can’t make an easy decision now with all the evidence out yet you did it with Fairlay without giving them a chance to provide evidence. Names, teams, associations are now publicly posted of the fixed matches.

The OP has rental agreement, residence and bank statements. There is nothing that can trump that. This decision can be made now. How would you rule right now if you were the arbitrator and there is nothing else to be presented?

Let’s not talk further about Fairlay. That can be done in the other thread if wanted.

First of all, to address the "let's not talk further about Fairlay", why not? You're the one who bring Fairlay to the table, creating an impression here on this thread that I am not giving fairlay chance, and I shouldn't clarify the situation you created here? I should address your "accusation" on the other thread, while people reading your statement here might misunderstood what really happened, thanks to your statement? Yeah, very nice.

Now, Fairlay.

To say that we [or I] did not give them a chance to provide evidence is extremely misleading. They came, asking for arbitrator, the overseers suggest a panel of three mediators to maintain fairness, the player nominates two, Fairlay withdraw their request of arbitration for their own reason.

It's not the case of not giving fairlay a chance to prove themselves, they withdraw themselves before the mediation can even begin. The overseers of that thread regrets Fairlay's unilateral decision to withdraw. My last post on that thread clearly outlined the path I am planning to take, questions I prepared, suppose they go with mediation.

So, not giving a chance? Not, giving, a, chance? I can't think of any better word for your statement other than misleading [since throwing muds is apparently out of the window right now].

That said and clarified on this thread, if you have other dirty laundry to air about Fairlay, or other cases, feel free to bring it back up on the respective thread, I'll be more than happy to address you there.

Next, decision, decision. I believe I've answered that on previous post? I don't pass judgment, I don't make a ruling. Both on this thread and on Fairlay's thread, I didn't say which side I decide, with evidence or not, is right or wrong.

Here on this case, I simply help suggesting to OP to provide proof that can get him out of the situation, which... eagle-eyed overseer will easily understand that it's actually a double edged sword. If OP can provide what's asked, then there's a chance he's not guilty. If he refuses to provide, for questionable reason, then there are probably more than meet the eyes.

Sure, I can hold off until you get back

Thank you for waiting and sorry for the wall of text above, some things need to be cleared.

First of all, I would have to agree that you make a good point on post #107. Given HR letter and transfer instruction letter are out of question, if you can provide such documentation you mentioned on the post [perhaps the most important one will be the utility bill], it will very likely defeats the UK residency permit [as I'll assume you're yet to have one]. How possible is it to procure utility bill not only until 10th June [where this situation began] but to the date far beyond it, like July's bill perhaps? It'll rather more definitively shows that you're still here in LUX even after the situation.

Next, your draft, it's nicely written, and what I suggested might sound superfluous, but the idea I have in my mind is to "raise" your "bet" with Rollbit's staff who handle this case to a point he has to "check" [forgive the terms]. They probably already will reconsider to let you perform enhanced KYC with those documents you offered you'll provide, but what about raising the bet by to a point they're question their position by telling them that you're more than willing to do a video KYC at a random time [clearly should be done on LUX timezone, and at the time you'll likely to be available, so at 23:00 is clearly out of the table] at one or two hours notice?

So they don't have to give you the schedule ahead of time [this is what usually happen for a video verification, they give the date and time far ahead]. Rather, it's at one or two hours notice, of which you'll also offer to take the video call with LUX landmark being visible [perhaps a simple restaurant sign, street sign, billboard, or other thing that clearly shows you're in LUX]. I believe they'll have to agree that such feast is rather impossible if you currently resides in UK, to arrange a flight, buy a ticket, board, fly, land, and drive to a visible sign of LUX within two hours, not to mention clearing the immigration.

If I were the officer tasked to handle your case, I think I'll seriously consider your living situation in UK if you dared to provide such arrangement. The downside of this will be that you have to constantly monitor your email, waiting for their invitation, as the window is very narrow.

[Petermario]

First of all, I would have to agree that you make a good point on post #107. Given HR letter and transfer instruction letter are out of question, if you can provide such documentation you mentioned on the post [perhaps the most important one will be the utility bill], it will very likely defeats the UK residency permit [as I'll assume you're yet to have one]. How possible is it to procure utility bill not only until 10th June [where this situation began] but to the date far beyond it, like July's bill perhaps? It'll rather more definitively shows that you're still here in LUX even after the situation.

Next, your draft, it's nicely written, and what I suggested might sound superfluous, but the idea I have in my mind is to "raise" your "bet" with Rollbit's staff who handle this case to a point he has to "check" [forgive the terms]. They probably already will reconsider to let you perform enhanced KYC with those documents you offered you'll provide, but what about raising the bet by to a point they're question their position by telling them that you're more than willing to do a video KYC at a random time [clearly should be done on LUX timezone, and at the time you'll likely to be available, so at 23:00 is clearly out of the table] at one or two hours notice?

So they don't have to give you the schedule ahead of time [this is what usually happen for a video verification, they give the date and time far ahead]. Rather, it's at one or two hours notice, of which you'll also offer to take the video call with LUX landmark being visible [perhaps a simple restaurant sign, street sign, billboard, or other thing that clearly shows you're in LUX]. I believe they'll have to agree that such feast is rather impossible if you currently resides in UK, to arrange a flight, buy a ticket, board, fly, land, and drive to a visible sign of LUX within two hours, not to mention clearing the immigration.

If I were the officer tasked to handle your case, I think I'll seriously consider your living situation in UK if you dared to provide such arrangement. The downside of this will be that you have to constantly monitor your email, waiting for their invitation, as the window is very narrow.

You raise a good point here, although I also have plenty of travel plans for the summer and probably will also need to account for them, not sure how feaseable it is considering that if they call and I come back with "I am away on holiday", I probably wont get another shot.

I think providing my water/energy bill for example for the month of June (latest I have) as well as for the month of July (I could potentially provide this in a couple of weeks) will be ample proof that I am still living in my house in LUX.

I really appreciate your inputs here, I will suggest to them for now that I provide the bills for June and July (when available) to prove that I am still in LUX.

[Petermario]

Also, for transparency, this is the email I just sent to them.

Just to address your points one by one, I am able to prove that I still live and reside in Luxembourg and I can provide  rental agreement, utility bills, residence permit and even employment contract that will prove that I not only was living in Luxembourg at the time of opening the account, but I am still living in Luxembourg. I am also happy to share my utility bills for the months of June and July (when available) to prove that I am still living in Luxembourg.

The reason I do not use Wifi on my phone is that I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

Additionally, I would like to point out that allowing me to complete an exhaustive KYC will shed light to the questions you are asking and will clarify where I was when using the Rollbit account.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

Also, for transparency, this is the email I just sent to them.

Just to address your points one by one, I am able to prove that I still live and reside in Luxembourg and I can provide  rental agreement, utility bills, residence permit and even employment contract that will prove that I not only was living in Luxembourg at the time of opening the account, but I am still living in Luxembourg. I am also happy to share my utility bills for the months of June and July (when available) to prove that I am still living in Luxembourg.

The reason I do not use Wifi on my phone is that I spend a lot of time at work where the Wifi is capped (cannot access many sites such as youtube), therefore I always keep the Wifi setting off on my phone, given that I have unlimited mobile data anyways this has never been a problem for me.

Additionally, I would like to point out that allowing me to complete an exhaustive KYC will shed light to the questions you are asking and will clarify where I was when using the Rollbit account.

Very well written I think.
Also everything is basically explained good enough to at least make them hopefully look deeper into the whole thing. Refusing to see any evidence from your side would just look even more shady.
I mean what is the problem with hearing you out and look at the documents you are willing to provide, I really don't get it. They can't just judge and confiscate such a large about just because of their opinion it MIGHT be the right thing, it's ridiculous.

Hopefully they come to their senses and at least do the extended KYC, good luck for that!!

[holydarkness]

You raise a good point here, although I also have plenty of travel plans for the summer and probably will also need to account for them, not sure how feaseable it is considering that if they call and I come back with "I am away on holiday", I probably wont get another shot. [...]

I understand.

Considering this, then your email on post #118 above is the best one so far to "challenge" them, persuading them to re-try your case, as well as not placing you in a rather difficult position. Please keep us posted on their reply.