Account wiped with $64k on Rollbit.com

[Rating Place]

snip

Well it's actually hard to help you since even we try it seems like rollbit is resisting any arguments.
They repeatedly said you "admitted to live in the UK" but when I asked you weeks ago about that you said that you never did.
Sure it should not matter for this case if you live there now when the actual gameplay was made somewhere else.

I do agree with rollbit about 1 thing though. It would appear strange if there is actually not 1 single LUX IP in your history. Maybe you are very strict about your habits and really only play with the phone provider IP but even I for example sometimes use the wifi in my gym or some hotel or whatever to check my account and claim some bonus or whatever, not necessarily for gaming.

You’re right about Rollbit resisting arguments. They are deflecting to IP.

Edit- OP has a LUX resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. That’s all that needs to be said.

[holydarkness]

The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident

[Rating Place]

The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident

I don’t think the OP has to recant anything. He said he’s currently living in the UK but wasn’t at the time of his play. All proof that Rollbit has submitted is subordinate to a resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Since the weight of the evidence is in favor of the OP, nothing else is needed. He doesn’t have to prove that he’s innocent beyond a shadow of doubt. Rollbit hasn’t proved guilt beyond doubt. If one party has to present more evidence, it would be Rollbit.

Edit- let’s pretend this is a court of law.

Prosecutor - where do you reside?
OP - In Lux and shows resident permit, rental agreement and bank statement.

Prosecutor - why don’t any of your log ins come from LUX.
OP - says what he stated here.

The excuse for IP may not be true but it’s not conclusive. IP is Rollbit’s whole argument. Rollbit needed a change in ToS to win.

[holydarkness]

The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident

I don’t think the OP has to recant anything. He said he’s currently living in the UK but wasn’t at the time of his play. All proof that Rollbit has submitted is subordinate to a resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Since the weight of the evidence is in favor of the OP, nothing else is needed. He doesn’t have to prove that he’s innocent beyond a shadow of doubt. Rollbit hasn’t proved guilt beyond doubt. If one party has to present more evidence, it would be Rollbit.

OP made a statement, that he's a resident of UK. That exact keyword. Resident.



Granted, OP explained to us that he made that statement so that they'll [TBH, up to this day, I'm not sure the correlation of them and how does such outcome expected to happen] release his fund without KYC and he's in fact still a resident of LUX and only visit London on short-time-but-frequent basis.

I don't think it will acceptable as an ommission from record on any adjudicative body without any action from OP. Which.. is what we try to achieve here.

Someone said at some point that he's a resident of UK, and at other point, he got pointed out that UK is a restricted territory, and he later said that he's actually not a resident of UK, would that word be taken for granted instead of an [involuntary] admission of guilt?

Rollbit did gave a prove of guilt, which actually became the basis of this entire discussion, OP's IP on their log shows UK and Spain. Again, granted, OP explained that it's due to his mobile data, as supported by Vodavone Spain, so we can cross the Spain situation, but it is yet to be explained by his UK provider. And even if the UK provider explained the same as Vodavone, that their data carrier will still shows UK as their IP when the user is in LUX, it doesn't close to a possibility that OP played from UK during his visits. Unless we take it at face value.

Which... We actually kinda do. We gave OP benefit of doubts and take his word for it, that he never played when he's on UK soil. No ToS being violated. That's why, we [well, I] suggested him several ways to prove his innocence against the incriminating evidence [his admission and his IP record].

Bottomline, OP made a statement that self incriminate himself, and contrary to what you believe, he need to recant this. Rollbit provides him a chance to do so. Both of this leads to my suggestion.


p.s.: One thing that worth mentioning, I find AHOYBRAUSE's question about wifi rather interesting and a valid question to be answered, but I am not venturing over it and would let ahoy pursue this matter if he deemed it fit. I rather choose to focus on a way for OP to resolve this matter.

[Rating Place]

The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident

Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence. This is a clear cut win for the OP in any court, even in civil courts.

[holydarkness]

Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?

[Rating Place]

Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?

It doesn’t matter where the play came from. Also there is a difference between where you are living and what country you are a “resident”. Living in a country for a year doesn’t make you a “resident” of the country. The OP didn’t break the ToS.

Edit- this is why I say you always start off taking the book’s side. The onus is on the book to prove guilt.

There’s a legal process to become a “resident” of a country.

[holydarkness]

Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?

It doesn’t matter where the play came from. Also there is a difference between where you are living and what country you are a “resident” from. Living in a country for a year doesn’t make you a “resident” of the country. The OP didn’t break the ToS.

How? If the play come from UK or Spain [or other restricted territory] it certainly will be considered as a breach of ToS. So, it matters where the play come from. Unless I am wrongly seeing this, so how is it not matter? Please indulge me with an easy to understand explanation.

As for the residency situation, here's a simple break down: their ToS prohibit a resident of UK to play on their platform. OP made a statement that he's a UK resident, supported by UK IP. So let me ask you again, how do you propose OP to prove that he never, not once, played from UK?

Let's make it a bit more complicated. He made a statement that he's a UK resident. Even with LUX residence permit, which shows the date of expiracy, but doesn't [obviously] tell us whether he stays until the expiration date or he has moved to other country and have another residence permit there, it opens to a possibility that he [at any point from the residency permit of LUX being issued to this day] actually have a situation as he said, that he's no longer in LUX and has become a UK semi-permanent resident.

He retracted his statement of being a UK resident and said that he commute to UK on frequent basis [if I'm not mistaken] only after it's being pointed out to him that UK is also a restricted territory. Worsen that with the fact that not even once his IP pinged to be from LUX [that whole wifi situation]. Bring this to any court, even civil court, I believe most will see it as an attempt to change a narrative to save himself from self-incrimination. Unless, he can prove that he's indeed only made up that incriminating statement for whatever reason, that it's false and that he's still commute to UK because his base is still in LUX.

They are willing [at least that's the impression I get as they're still opening a communication with OP] to listen to OP's defense, I tend to believe it's a very short window that will closes soon by the numbers of correspondencies he has with their team. So unless you can suggest OP a way to prove that he never access from within UK soil despite what his IP said, the better option will be to disprove his own statement of being UK resident, so yes, it needs to be recanted. I believe I don't need to explain that even with the UK provider giving the same explanation as Spain Vodavone, it doesn't directly disprove OP to have ever play from UK.

Pursuing the possibility to produce a supporting document that his employment transfers only become effective on certain date after 10th of June, or if he can provide them with UK residence permit [if I'm not wrong, it has date of issuance on it], we will have a small blip of hope that his previous UK residency statement/situation is not valid, since being rather full time in LUX and temporarily in UK [since he only commute instead of having a residence permit] would give a smaller chance for him to access Rollbit from UK soil compared to if he's being in UK full time.

If you have a better suggestion to help OP gets out of this situation, perhaps help him with the wifi situation as that's what asked by Rollbit's team, if not a way to prove he never play from within UK soil, I'm all ears.

[Rating Place]

Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?

It doesn’t matter where the play came from. Also there is a difference between where you are living and what country you are a “resident” from. Living in a country for a year doesn’t make you a “resident” of the country. The OP didn’t break the ToS.

How? If the play come from UK or Spain [or other restricted territory] it certainly will be considered as a breach of ToS. So, it matters where the play come from. Unless I am wrongly seeing this, so how is it not matter? Please indulge me with an easy to understand explanation.

As for the residency situation, here's a simple break down: their ToS prohibit a resident of UK to play on their platform. OP made a statement that he's a UK resident, supported by UK IP. So let me ask you again, how do you propose OP to prove that he never, not once, played from UK?

Let's make it a bit more complicated. He made a statement that he's a UK resident. Even with LUX residence permit, which shows the date of expiracy, but doesn't [obviously] tell us whether he stays until the expiration date or he has moved to other country and have another residence permit there, it opens to a possibility that he [at any point from the residency permit of LUX being issued to this day] actually have a situation as he said, that he's no longer in LUX and has become a UK semi-permanent resident.

He retracted his statement of being a UK resident and said that he commute to UK on frequent basis [if I'm not mistaken] only after it's being pointed out to him that UK is also a restricted territory. Worsen that with the fact that not even once his IP pinged to be from LUX [that whole wifi situation]. Bring this to any court, even civil court, I believe most will see it as an attempt to change a narrative to save himself from self-incrimination. Unless, he can prove that he's indeed only made up that incriminating statement for whatever reason, that it's false and that he's still commute to UK because his base is still in LUX.

They are willing [at least that's the impression I get as they're still opening a communication with OP] to listen to OP's defense, I tend to believe it's a very short window that will closes soon by the numbers of correspondencies he has with their team. So unless you can suggest OP a way to prove that he never access from within UK soil despite what his IP said, the better option will be to disprove his own statement of being UK resident, so yes, it needs to be recanted. I believe I don't need to explain that even with the UK provider giving the same explanation as Spain Vodavone, it doesn't directly disprove OP to have ever play from UK.

Pursuing the possibility to produce a supporting document that his employment transfers only become effective on certain date after 10th of June, or if he can provide them with UK residence permit [if I'm not wrong, it has date of issuance on it], we will have a small blip of hope that his previous UK residency statement/situation is not valid, since being rather full time in LUX and temporarily in UK [since he only commute instead of having a residence permit] would give a smaller chance for him to access Rollbit from UK soil compared to if he's being in UK full time.

If you have a better suggestion to help OP gets out of this situation, perhaps help him with the wifi situation as that's what asked by Rollbit's team, if not a way to prove he never play from within UK soil, I'm all ears.

It’s futile at this point. The OP misused the term “resident”,  just as you did with “slander”. I still knew the meaning of what you tried to convey and you should do the same. I’m out because no matter what I say, you aren’t changing your mind. The same goes for Rollbit. They are stealing the OP’s money.They should change their ToS.

[holydarkness]

Edit- this is why I say you always start off taking the book’s side. The onus is on the book to prove guilt.

There’s a legal process to become a “resident” of a country.

First, about your edit [we'll leave your other edit and ninja edit on this thread untouched]. How on earth this is me "taking the book's side"? I literally brainstorming a way for OP to prove his innocence. How? By all means, please tell me.

It’s futile at this point. The OP misused the term “resident”,  just as you did with “slander”. I still knew the meaning of what you tried to convey and you should do the same. I’m out because no matter what I say, you aren’t changing your mind. The same goes for Rollbit. They are stealing the OP’s money.They should change their ToS.

No, no, it's not futile, and this is not about me changing my mind. Far from it. It's about convincing Rollbit. We're trying to help OP here and he's asking for an input on some prove or suggestion for him to do to make the things go forward.

I gave some ideas to help him disprove his statement about UK residency as it is currently what Rollbit held against him, and it seems you somehow perceive them as... hmm... I'm not sure...taking the book's side? Or is it ineffective? Or is it your primal instinct to jump and argue to all of my point, without really digesting what I tried to say, due to that prejudice that I am always taking books side?

Anyway, please, for the sake of OP, give us your input.

[Rating Place]

Edit- this is why I say you always start off taking the book’s side. The onus is on the book to prove guilt.

There’s a legal process to become a “resident” of a country.

First, about your edit [we'll leave your other edit and ninja edit on this thread untouched]. How on earth this is me "taking the book's side"? I literally brainstorming a way for OP to prove his innocence. How? By all means, please tell me.

It’s futile at this point. The OP misused the term “resident”,  just as you did with “slander”. I still knew the meaning of what you tried to convey and you should do the same. I’m out because no matter what I say, you aren’t changing your mind. The same goes for Rollbit. They are stealing the OP’s money.They should change their ToS.

No, no, it's not futile, and this is not about me changing my mind. Far from it. It's about convincing Rollbit. We're trying to help OP here and he's asking for an input on some prove or suggestion for him to do to make the things go forward.

I gave some ideas to help him disprove his statement about UK residency as it is currently what Rollbit held against him, and it seems you somehow perceive them as... hmm... I'm not sure...taking the book's side? Or is it ineffective? Or is it your primal instinct to jump and argue to all of my point, without really digesting what I tried to say, due to that prejudice that I am always taking books side?

Anyway, please, for the sake of OP, give us your input.

It’s futile to try and convince Rollbit if they aren’t going to accept resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Our time is better spent to try and help others.

Edit- change of mind on regulatory means. Rollbit needs to be forced to pay and that’s the only possibility, even if the chances are slim.

[holydarkness]

It’s futile to try and convince Rollbit if they aren’t going to accept resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Our time is better spent to try and help others.

If you feel that it's a waste of time and it's better spent on others, then by all means, please do, no one is stopping you from removing yourself from this thread. I'm staying, though. Because for the third [at least the ones that I explicitly said instead of being clearly implied, or is it the fourth?] time said on this thread, this is me trying to help the community.

Because contrary to what you believe, though I've repetitively say it to a point of being redundant, I stood on neutral ground. Always do. If I'm on books' side, I'll have been leaving from many posts ago, given "it's futile to try and convince Rollbit". Why do I still need to stay? I've won, "my side" won. I've got what I come for.

Hell... to unnecessarily overemphasizing the ridiculousness of a statement that I'm taking book's side, this case opened with me notifying Razer and attempting OP to get another chance to prove himself, both onscreen that can be read by public here and "off-screen" through PM correspondencies with OP and Razer, which ultimately leads him into the email path.

That's me taking a book's side?

So, my suggestion before we part ways, in the future, if you ever bumped into me again in other thread, and you happen to question on what side I am on in every cases, remember this and know that outside of what the forum member can publicly read, I'm doing so much more and exhausting way more than much method to ensure every player submitting their complaint here are given at least a shot or two.

Those not-necessarily-dirty laundry aired, as no one stopping you from leaving, no one can also stop you from staying. Clearly. So if you happen to have made a long walk and have your head cooled off and decided to jump back in to help OP with the situation, extra pair of eyes will always help.

If the chance of you ever make any further post on this thread, be it to help the player or anything else, is infinitesimal, before you leave, to pacify my curiosity, what are the answer for all of those question, especially after my overly-self-praising statement above? Pure curiositym really. Those me being always taking the book's side and [more importantly] my suggestion for OP to reply to Rollbit?

[Rating Place]

It’s futile to try and convince Rollbit if they aren’t going to accept resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Our time is better spent to try and help others.

If you feel that it's a waste of time and it's better spent on others, then by all means, please do, no one is stopping you from removing yourself from this thread. I'm staying, though. Because for the third [at least the ones that I explicitly said instead of being clearly implied, or is it the fourth?] time said on this thread, this is me trying to help the community.

Because contrary to what you believe, though I've repetitively say it to a point of being redundant, I stood on neutral ground. Always do. If I'm on books' side, I'll have been leaving from many posts ago, given "it's futile to try and convince Rollbit". Why do I still need to stay? I've won, "my side" won. I've got what I come for.

Hell... to unnecessarily overemphasizing the ridiculousness of a statement that I'm taking book's side, this case opened with me notifying Razer and attempting OP to get another chance to prove himself, both onscreen that can be read by public here and "off-screen" through PM correspondencies with OP and Razer, which ultimately leads him into the email path.

That's me taking a book's side?

So, my suggestion before we part ways, in the future, if you ever bumped into me again in other thread, and you happen to question on what side I am on in every cases, remember this and know that outside of what the forum member can publicly read, I'm doing so much more and exhausting way more than much method to ensure every player submitting their complaint here are given at least a shot or two.

Those not-necessarily-dirty laundry aired, as no one stopping you from leaving, no one can also stop you from staying. Clearly. So if you happen to have made a long walk and have your head cooled off and decided to jump back in to help OP with the situation, extra pair of eyes will always help.

If the chance of you ever make any further post on this thread, be it to help the player or anything else, is infinitesimal, before you leave, to pacify my curiosity, what are the answer for all of those question, especially after my overly-self-praising statement above? Pure curiositym really. Those me being always taking the book's side and [more importantly] my suggestion for OP to reply to Rollbit?

You are taking the book's side by making the OP go through hell and high water with unnecessary documentation instead of questioning Razor. You have a closer relationship with Razor than I do, but this is the type of question I’d like answered.

Razor,

The player has submitted his resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. All show that the player is a resident of LUX. Rollbit's ToS allow residents of LUX to play. The ToS state nothing about where the bets were generated from making IP addresses irrelevant. Is there anything else that the poster can submit to change your position?

[AHOYBRAUSE]

You are taking the book's side by making the OP go through hell and high water with unnecessary documentation instead of questioning Razor. You have a closer relationship with Razor than I do, but this is the type of question I’d like answered.

Razor,

The player has submitted his resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. All show that the player is a resident of LUX. Rollbit's ToS allow residents of LUX to play. The ToS state nothing about where the bets were generated from making IP addresses irrelevant. Is there anything else that the poster can submit to change your position?

Nah man, I seriously doubt holydarkness is taking the casino's side. He is always very unbiased in cases like this.
The only problem here is the silence of Razor. Why is it so hard to make and extended KYC process?? OP clearly is ok with that and wants to show any proof imaginable to show his side of the story, yet rollbit doesn't even react on that.

It is ok to have doubts about OP's honesty but at least give him a fair chance to prove his point instead of make a bold statement and pretty much make a verdict without a trial. This is a lot of money we are talking about. Rollbit is a rich casino and he is just one of thousands of (mostly losing) players. Treating a player like this should be a warning to everyone considering playing there and trusting the site with their money.

[JollyGood]

I am new to this thread but have read up on most of the details and do feel sympathy for you because $64,000 is a lot of money.

When you stated there were never any issues when you deposited and withdrew around $60,000 over a two year period but on this occasion when the sum reached $64,000 it became an issue, this is something all casinos and gaming websites should look to improve. If they can block withdrawals based on their terms and conditions then surely they can block deposits on the very same terms and conditions too.

This does seem extremely harsh and unfair.

For clarity, if you are currently in Luxembourg, can you use your phone with your regular Spanish sim and open a browser without using any sort of VPN and then take a screenshot of what you see when you visit this website: https://www.whatismyip.com

According to the screenshots you provided earlier, it should be showing a Spanish IP address because of EU regulations (even though most would have thought it would be a local Luxembourg IP address) but a screenshot can settle the issue.

Hi everyone, Rollbit got back to me with the following email (see attached below), I am still drafting a response and will send a draft across here first, but I think their arguments/points in their email are deeply flawed, at least they have admitted the point on the mobile phone IP location.

1. They suggest that the due to me living in the UK currently (I still have not moved and still reside in LUX), voids the fact that I lived in LUX when using the account. This argument does not hold up, as I have been residing in LUX throughout the time of opening and using my account, therefore it is irrelevant where my current location is (again, I am still in LUX).

2. They argue that it is "extremely unlikely" that I reside and live there given there have been no IP hits. This has been explained in length, but I only used my phone to connect to Rollbit and I always use my data as they are unlimited. I believe a KYC will help them place me in LUX for the time I have been using the account (and currently).

3. They ask why wouldnt I use my Wifi even at home, and the fact is that I always use the data on my phone given I dont have restrictions on usage.

Could you please help me on some proof or suggestions I could make to them so we can move the case forward?

Thank you very much

[holydarkness]

You are taking the book's side by making the OP go through hell and high water with unnecessary documentation instead of questioning Razor. You have a closer relationship with Razor than I do, but this is the type of question I’d like answered.

That "unnecessary documentation" is a suggestion for OP since he asked for advise on what to provide to make his case moving. As Rollbit currently highlighted the issue where he made a statement of being a UK resident, best way [IMO] will be to disprove his own statement and allows him to retract that, effectively forcing Rollbit to accept that OP's statement is not true and they have to reevaluate OP's case, thus [hopefully] the enhanced KYC.

If the process of providing such documentation that allows OP to get his situation cleared requires OP to go through hell and high water, then as long as he doesn't mind, I'll be more than happy to drag him over boiling pot, shards of glasses, flaming red charcoal, and perhaps poke him with Lucifer's own pitchfork myself. Keyword: as long as he doesn't mind.

Those three points, the "unnecessary documentation" I wrote were that: suggestions for OP to get through with this situation, it's explicitly stated if you bother to read carefully. So again I ask, how do I take book's side?

I've asked you if you probably have a better way to assist OP, to disprove his own claim of UK residency and to prove that not even once he ever played within UK soil. Feel free to pitch in if you have a better idea, as it'll apparently be a fluffy, silk-soft road.

Razor,

The player has submitted his resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. All show that the player is a resident of LUX. Rollbit's ToS allow residents of LUX to play. The ToS state nothing about where the bets were generated from making IP addresses irrelevant. Is there anything else that the poster can submit to change your position?

And at this point I honestly not sure if you have a complete understanding of the situation. There is a ToS about where the bets generated from, it made IP addresses relevant.

That is the exact difficulty OP faced. He made a statement that he's a UK resident, he has UK IP on his log, it made him violated their ToS, and Rollbit held this statement against him. Unless we can disprove his own statement, that's the ongoing narrative. Nowhere, not even in civil court, such a written statement implicating self can easily be striked without strong basis, and that's what we try to do: to help OP prove that he has never accessed Rollbit from UK

Nah man, I seriously doubt holydarkness is taking the casino's side. He is always very unbiased in cases like this.
The only problem here is the silence of Razor. Why is it so hard to make and extended KYC process?? OP clearly is ok with that and wants to show any proof imaginable to show his side of the story, yet rollbit doesn't even react on that.

It is ok to have doubts about OP's honesty but at least give him a fair chance to prove his point instead of make a bold statement and pretty much make a verdict without a trial. This is a lot of money we are talking about. Rollbit is a rich casino and he is just one of thousands of (mostly losing) players. Treating a player like this should be a warning to everyone considering playing there and trusting the site with their money.

I'd like to think that... well, to be completely honest, "think" is not the right word, it's "hope", since I honestly can't predict where will this case goes. The way I understand it, Razer has handed the case to their compliance team since OP also escalated to their support channel other than this thread [it's also indicated on the last screenshot OP provided, where Rollbit state the email will be their means of communication], so he didn't have any control over the case anymore [this practice is quite common, where a higher-ups of a casino let their department made their decision, and the higher-ups won't [or even can't] turn the decision made]. I don't think Razer even following this thread anymore.

So, that above said, I'd like to hope that once we can help OP disprove his own previous statement about being UK resident, Rollbit will have nothing against him anymore and would have to allow him to do the video KYC, or whatever enhanced verification that will sort this situation out.

OP, Petermario, how likely is it to procure such documentation I previously asked? Or, if you'd like other path to pursue, can you perhaps tell us your situation with wifi? Perhaps the true situation behind it was not as "malicious" as Rollbit assumed, and perhaps sharing it here will help.

I am new to this thread but have read up on most of the details and do feel sympathy for you because $64,000 is a lot of money.

[...]

Umm... the situation with Spanish provider is --I believe-- already cleared and it's no longer an issue. Vodavone gave an official email, explaining that even if OP accessed the internet from LUX, his IP will still show as ES.

[Rating Place]

Well if you officially live in LUX and can prove it I don't see any way rollbit can get through with this.

They only deny players access if they are a resident of the banned countries.



Since you are a resident in LUX this claim made by them should have no merit.
But I already know we will see some other things in this thread later on, as it always does. Hopefully you can show them some rental agreement or job contract or whatever from where you live. Without that I have a feeling they will do everything they can to not pay. Problem always come up when people win and actually try to withdraw.
Depositing and losing is not an issue, even if you are from a banned region, we have seen that several times here.

Why you would use a Spanish provider while not living there anymore is beyond me though. It must be much more expensive than using a local one.

bump for holydarkness. I don’t see anything about IP address. And you aren’t understanding the legal meaning of the word “resident” where the OP may have meant living. Or he may have become a “resident” after playing there. If you want to help the OP, and don’t want the OP to be dragged through hell and high water, then ask Razor what would help. What you think may move the dial may be irrelevant to Rollbit.

it hard to get residency in UK?
In most cases, you will get PR once you have held your work visa for 5 years. The Skilled Worker visa is currently one of the easiest ways to get PR in the UK for non-EU nationals. There are several UK work visas that qualify for UK residency,

[holydarkness]

Well if you officially live in LUX and can prove it I don't see any way rollbit can get through with this.

They only deny players access if they are a resident of the banned countries.

[Image snip]
[...]

bump for holydarkness. I don’t see anything about IP address. And you still aren’t understanding the legal term of the word “resident” where the OP may have meant living. Or he may have become a “resident” after playing there.

If you tries to argue that "it talked about territories, not IP", then I would have to reconsider the worth of my past, present, and future conversation with you.

And I'm glad you're talking about me being confused about resident. I wanted to brush over it when you talked about it before, but decided against it. Now that you're talking about it again... are you sure you're understand the term about "resident" here? Is it perhaps [it actually crosses my mind and I've been really curious] you mixed "resident" with "citizen"?

To make things clear, my understanding about "resident" on this specific matter, as well as what I believe applied by many [if not all] casino is not about people's nationality, it's about where their feet set place when they accessed the casino. Couple of casinos even describes nicely to me that [I don't recall the exact nation each of them gave me, but let's just throw random names and random casino here for illustration purpose] suppose a Londoners plays at Rollbit from his home, this is a violation of ToS. But when that Londoners, someone with UK citizenship, fly to Singapore or to Japan and accessed Rollbit, it's acceptable. Likewise, when a Singaporean or Japanese is on UK soil, they are not allowed to play on Rollbit despite their nationality and/or they're only staying for a short moment that the official rule of a country group them as a tourist instead of a resident.

Thus, OP, a Spanish with LUX residency permit [not Lux citizenship] is allowed to play in LUX. However, the instance he returned to Spain or when he commute to UK, he is not allowed by ToS to play on Rollbit when their feet [or any limbs, really] is on that soil.

This is not just Rollbit. There are past cases about this topic on different casinos, someone with accepted nationality commute to other [restricted] country and they got banned. And if you must know how do I be certain that many casino apply this rule, it's because the first time I learned about this, I actually asked one casino's insight about residency policy for a case with competing casino. They both gave similar explanation for their own rule about territory. And then another casino, just to be sure.

I believe I've made it known on many occasions to many frequent overseer of this board. I can explain in long paragraph about this, the why they do this and all, but I don't think that'll be necessary for now [and certainly won't be necessary if what I feared above is true, that you'll insist IP is not territory]

Now, moving to OP's real situation. He "admitted" to Rollbit that he's a resident of UK, further strengthen with the IP addresses log that place him in UK. Regardless of his true living arrangement [that according to him he's still having Luxembourg as his base], both point open to an interpretation that he lived in UK, he stepped and walked on UK soil, he breathed UK's air, you name it. Again, not necessarily a citizen of UK, he simply only need to stand on UK's soil and accessed Rollbit from his device, and that's a violation of ToS.

This is what we're discussing, this is what we try to help OP to disprove, that despite his IP address said UK and he made a statement that he's a UK resident, he's actually yet to have UK as his base, he's still living in LUX, he only commuted to UK. To disprove his own "admission" of being UK resident [which instantly broke Rollbit's ToS] that I suggested those --check notes-- hell and high water documentation.

[Rating Place]

Well if you officially live in LUX and can prove it I don't see any way rollbit can get through with this.

They only deny players access if they are a resident of the banned countries.

[Image snip]
[...]

bump for holydarkness. I don’t see anything about IP address. And you still aren’t understanding the legal term of the word “resident” where the OP may have meant living. Or he may have become a “resident” after playing there.

If you tries to argue that "it talked about territories, not IP", then I would have to reconsider the worth of my past, present, and future conversation with you.

And I'm glad you're talking about me being confused about resident. I wanted to brush over it when you talked about it before, but decided against it. Now that you're talking about it again... are you sure you're understand the term about "resident" here? Is it perhaps [it actually crosses my mind and I've been really curious] you mixed "resident" with "citizen"?

To make things clear, my understanding about "resident" on this specific matter, as well as what I believe applied by many [if not all] casino is not about people's nationality, it's about where their feet set place when they accessed the casino. Couple of casinos even describes nicely to me that [I don't recall the exact nation each of them gave me, but let's just throw random names and random casino here for illustration purpose] suppose a Londoners plays at Rollbit from his home, this is a violation of ToS. But when that Londoners, someone with UK citizenship, fly to Singapore or to Japan and accessed Rollbit, it's acceptable. Likewise, when a Singaporean or Japanese is on UK soil, they are not allowed to play on Rollbit despite their nationality and/or they're only staying for a short moment that the official rule of a country group them as a tourist instead of a resident.

Thus, OP, a Spanish with LUX residency permit [not Lux citizenship] is allowed to play in LUX. However, the instance he returned to Spain or when he commute to UK, he is not allowed by ToS to play on Rollbit when their feet [or any limbs, really] is on that soil.

This is not just Rollbit. There are past cases about this topic on different casinos, someone with accepted nationality commute to other [restricted] country and they got banned. And if you must know how do I be certain that many casino apply this rule, it's because the first time I learned about this, I actually asked one casino's insight about residency policy for a case with competing casino. They both gave similar explanation for their own rule about territory. And then another casino, just to be sure.

I believe I've made it known on many occasions to many frequent overseer of this board. I can explain in long paragraph about this, the why they do this and all, but I don't think that'll be necessary for now [and certainly won't be necessary if what I feared above is true, that you'll insist IP is not territory]

Now, moving to OP's real situation. He "admitted" to Rollbit that he's a resident of UK, further strengthen with the IP addresses log that place him in UK. Regardless of his true living arrangement [that according to him he's still having Luxembourg as his base], both point open to an interpretation that he lived in UK, he stepped and walked on UK soil, he breathed UK's air, you name it. Again, not necessarily a citizen of UK, he simply only need to stand on UK's soil and accessed Rollbit from his device, and that's a violation of ToS.

This is what we're discussing, this is what we try to help OP to disprove, that despite his IP address said UK and he made a statement that he's a UK resident, he's actually yet to have UK as his base, he's still living in LUX, he only commuted to UK. To disprove his own "admission" of being UK resident [which instantly broke Rollbit's ToS] that I suggested those --check notes-- hell and high water documentation.

Resident is different than citizen. It really doesn't even matter since it all occurred after play. If you are living somewhere, it doesn't make you a "resident". You have to be in the UK at least 183 days. Even if you want to use the term living at and resident interchangeable, it doesn't matter. Let's say I'm wrong on "resident".  Your resident argument isn't good unless play was at the same time. Why don't you just ask Razor what type of information would help the OP's case?

Permanent residence (PR) in the UK means that you can live, work and study here indefinitely without the need to apply for a new visa. PR in the UK is also known as Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). One of the key requirements for UK PR is, in most cases, you must have continuously resided in the UK for at least 5 years. However, the specific duration required for obtaining UK PR status depends on the type of UK visa you possess. For instances, holders of the Innovator Founder Visa or the Global Talent Visa may be eligible to apply for UK PR (ILR) after just 3 years. The most common immigration routes that qualify for UK residency are as follows:

Family visa: 5 years
Work visa: 5 years
Business visa: 3 to 5 years
Long residence to ILR: 10 years

https://immigrationlawyers-london.com/uk-residency.php

Non-resident: If you’re a non-resident, you’ve spent fewer than 16 days in the UK (or 46 days if you haven’t been classified as a UK resident in the last 3 tax years). You’re usually only taxed on the income you earn in the UK.

https://www.expatustax.com/residential-status-uk/#:~:text=Automatic%20Residence%20Test%3A%20If%20you,re%20automatically%20considered%20a%20resident.

[holydarkness]

[...]
And I'm glad you're talking about me being confused about resident. I wanted to brush over it when you talked about it before, but decided against it. Now that you're talking about it again... are you sure you're understand the term about "resident" here? Is it perhaps [it actually crosses my mind and I've been really curious] you mixed "resident" with "citizen"?

To make things clear, my understanding about "resident" on this specific matter, as well as what I believe applied by many [if not all] casino is not about people's nationality, it's about where their feet set place when they accessed the casino. Couple of casinos even describes nicely to me that [I don't recall the exact nation each of them gave me, but let's just throw random names and random casino here for illustration purpose] suppose a Londoners plays at Rollbit from his home, this is a violation of ToS. But when that Londoners, someone with UK citizenship, fly to Singapore or to Japan and accessed Rollbit, it's acceptable. Likewise, when a Singaporean or Japanese is on UK soil, they are not allowed to play on Rollbit despite their nationality and/or they're only staying for a short moment that the official rule of a country group them as a tourist instead of a resident.
[...]

Resident is different than citizen. It really doesn't even matter since it all occurred after play. If you are living somewhere, it doesn't make you a "resident".

Permanent residence (PR) in the UK means that you can live, work and study here indefinitely without the need to apply for a new visa. PR in the UK is also known as Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). One of the key requirements for UK PR is, in most cases, you must have continuously resided in the UK for at least 5 years. However, the specific duration required for obtaining UK PR status depends on the type of UK visa you possess. For instances, holders of the Innovator Founder Visa or the Global Talent Visa may be eligible to apply for UK PR (ILR) after just 3 years. The most common immigration routes that qualify for UK residency are as follows:

Family visa: 5 years
Work visa: 5 years
Business visa: 3 to 5 years
Long residence to ILR: 10 years

https://immigrationlawyers-london.com/uk-residency.php

Did you... even read my long text? Yeah, I know it's long and boring, perhaps can be shortened out to few paragraphs, but those entire paragraphs consist of all of crucial information. The bottomline, though, casino's [many casino, not just rollbit] term for "residency" simply refers to the place when someone accessed their platform.

It's not about duration [I've explained above, not sure if you actually read them], it's about where your feet stepped on. The instance you step on UK, you're not allowed to play. The instance a Londoner leave UK, they're allowed to play.

And if it helps [few of that "long paragraph about this" I brushed earlier, of which I've actually explained once or twice in the past], those restriction and rules is not because a casino doesn't want to do business with a country. It's not because Rollbit hates The Queen, or Biden, they simply have that rule in order to be compliant to the country's rule.

They don't have a permit to conduct business in UK and those other territory. They can't legally cater a round of BJ for a Japanese tourist who visited UK because they don't have legal body and permit to cater gambling activity in UK.

If you still insist on those residency and visa as the one that apply, then I give up. I don't think that worth my energy. I'll advise you to familiarize with threads on this board, though. Those situation with "residency" and what they're defined according to casinos [thus, indirectly, this board] has been discussed on several cases.