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I never mean to raise this topic but I think I have to to know the general public opinion based on the merits source selection technique, let us see the general overview on what should be done or a modalities to follow to implement and approved merits source.

I know my rank is too low to have this discussion over here but it's too saddened to see that lot of people applied for merits source and yet no attention is being given to them especially that of Icopress I was pushed to see that even how active he has been here theymos didn't still get moved to consider him. Not only him but lot of merits application which I can't even list all here making me to be this eager to know the people's mind.

Even though he has no interest to accept more merits source at least he should raised a topic to address people who are queuing up longing to be accepted, when he showed concerned it makes it more fun and a lovable place to stay with couples with the purpose while the forum is being created. If he shows concerned then it would also help to reduce stress from people who have been longing to be approved or even those that are planning to apply will make them limit their interest since he had made it clear to people his term or condition and modalities of to approvals.

Well, I mean no harm or insult to anyone neither do I have any special interest to anyone, I am only being much moved by the pending applications and this curiosity made me to raise this concern as a matter of deliberation to justify anyone whom has applied or intending to apply to check out their criteria if they are qualify as one before applying.

Please vote wisely and give your overall opinion towards this. Again if similar topic has been raised before please share links maybe I can start over there to see what effort that has been put over there.

Thank you.

No need, the fact that the admin is silent about this, means that merit distributions from merit sources is enough regardless the other sources are inactive, and the current merit sources do their job, so adding a new one is not yet an option, maybe if there is a huge decline of merit distribution from the sources.

Do you know that if there are enough merits in circulation there wouldn't had been a time some people would have applied for their local board merits source, and if the merit is going across then no need people applying for fillippone merits review and again hugeblack who was doing review has as well close his thread for months now if I am not mistakenly. So what about those local board request for merits source does it mean they have enough merits in their local board? And don't you think is right time he demotes those who aren't active to distribute their merits to more active people?

Please make use of the voting system.. poll above.

Judging by the voting results, we all want a little anarchy.

No need to know, admin probably has statistics to see if those are necessary or not.

Users are free to apply no need to mention each one of them just because they are good poster, DT members, have good merit contribution, etc. These are not required in merit applications, depends on theymos definition of an "established" member.
Those merit giving threads are there for users for the purpose that sources don't notice them for so many reasons, one of them is having different board to stay with.

This is considerable, but most users lurks on English boards other than staying on their locals thus the reason why, (i guess), but it will be good on huge participants local forums.

That's a long time issue now, but nothing happens.

My vote is probably obvious, and im not fond of participating polls.

The current merit source stats shows that there are 109 merit source available in the forum. Last I checked there were 130. I guess the admin himself is responsible for updating that data https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=sources.

So if he finds the number of merit source declining, he just might consider adding some more to the list.. don't know his reasons for not adding currently but then I guess it might be a good one.


As for those merit threads, it's just a way for merit sources to distribute their smerit. Different Merit source has their own ways to send out their smerits. Probably they might be busy with other things so the merit thread are put on hold. To me it's a kind of long task reviewing those lengthy submissions and awarding each of them merits.

My merit thread has nothing to do with merit imbalances:
I can quickly dispose of my merit stash with my daily routine in the forum.
Merit circulation in the forum is quite good, as proven by statistics from various sources, like DdmrDdmr.

My thread is aimed at helping those who write good posts to speed up the inevitable merit collection.

The last group update was on July 05, 2021, at that time there was a demand from many members and merit sources to increase their monthly distributions and since then all changes to the merit sources list have been individual.

If I remember correctly, the changes happened twice in 2018 and 2021 so if there are enough demands it may be modified during this year.

As for how to choose, there is no voting by merit sources. I think theymos will add most of the current requests if there is a mass change.

There are merit source applications under pending for a while now and this is not because the admin wasn't aware about them, but i think he is rather waiting for a specific timing for them to be approved, such could have been if there is an urgent or crucial need for one the approval for an application, but i think there is one additional merit source Igebotz recently.

We want this: "Let Theymos decide on his own when to approve merit sources," and 90% of the voters approved it.

If there are many applications, it might take time before the merit source applications are approved. I’ve noticed that maybe all local boards should have a merit source. This is just based on my observation; for example, in the Philippine board, we had a merit source before, but it got involved in a scam, so it's no longer active. Now, there's no merit source, and the local board feels a bit sluggish. No offense to the active members, but that’s just my observation.

Maybe a suggestion would be that every local board should have a merit source, and the approval process should be expedited if there isn’t one, provided that the applicants are qualified based on Theymos’s discretion. There might be local boards with more than one merit source, so it’s a bit of a loss for us. Having one could encourage users to be more active, especially low-rank users who want to rank up.

Because the forum don't need additional merit sources at the moment.

The forum is currently lack of objective merit sources, some users tend to give merit to their local users, gangs or someone who have a relationship with them. The thing is, it's really hard to pick that kind users, no one know what they will do after being a merit sources, although theymos can just remove them from merit sources.

I understand, I am not in any way questioning you neither do I questioned anyone. As a matter of discussion, you both are really trying for distribution and I must commend on you two (hugeblack and fillippone) for their great job. Then I noticed from the poll that almost every vote still "point at when theymos decides to approve". Usually it's very touching see lots of application on the pending list without responding to them or making a kind of interaction with them to at least make them know why they aren't being approved by now.

I think the best person to answer your question is Theymos. The fact is for a very long time now Theymos hasn't really been taking merit source applications for his own reasons. Personally I think the reason he hasn't for quite some time now is because he's probably watching the merit circulation from the back door and it all seems just fine to him. Probably based on his speculation, if he added more merit sources there would be too much smerits in circulation which would alter the value of merits.

Fact is a much as everyone is hoping Theymos accepts new merit source applications, we just have to wait for Theymos to decide that it's the right time he should have his reasons why he hasn't granted many applications yet probably because of something different from my hypothesis entirely nonetheless let's be kinda patient.

IMO, there is a need based on the reasons I've mentioned above.

But if merit source applicants will fall into this description, then it might be hard for Theymos to add one.

Sorry. I can't find valuable reasons on why only DT members should or even why there should be voting in anyway reasons being that approved merit source shouldn't be a people's choice in the forum as there may possibly be members fans involving factions without undermining reputations.
However, merit source should be earned by the applicants capacity such as leadership potentials with transparencies with highily knowledged in the bitcointalk community to be able to diligently speculate the merits within its expected province accordingly without being biased such as building segregations of meriting and not meriting members based on their natural likes or dislikes. So if you ask me, all of the applicants are qualified reasons why because I like them all but of no technical factors.
So then, all scrutinization based on who's best in position by requirements should be by appointment of Theymos.

I think we can have voting, but it shouldn’t be the final say. Maybe it could be part of the criteria, but the biggest portion should still come from the admin’s decision. We can also give a certain percentage of votes to DT members since they are trusted, so their votes should carry more weight. If you look at the contributions of some forum members who put in the effort to improve the value of the forum, DT members have made a big impact. You can see their contributions if you search. But yeah, these are just suggestions. Theymos will still have the final say on how they implement the process for adding merit sources. At least we’re here to express our opinions. Just my 2 cents.

Because we have enough merit sources already. It's not a "delay of approval" kind of problem. There are just enough of us laying around. What's "enough" is, however, subjective.

Introducing a democratic system in a privately owned business is as irrational as living in a democracy where a single company has the exclusive authority to issue money, operating without oversight or regulation from elected members of Congress. Imagine the nightmare of living under such a delusional system! ::)

Probably because it's only the admins that can do it. Maybe theymos should consider allowing some other mods or trusted users the ability to make merit sources.

It's not a matter of lack of merit in circulation, but the "problem" is a lack of quality posts that deserve to be awarded with merit. Threads that have been opened are to help with easy recognition of such posts. I think LoyceV recently said that he has 3 or 4 thousand merit available, but not enough quality posts for that.

Or maybe because he thinks there are enough merits in the circulations. If theymos can update the eligible DT1 list every month, I believe he has time to check a single application a month if he wants. Members do not create merit source application threads every week or every month. He could have checked those threads if he wanted. But he may know what we don't know.

We talk from speculations while he has the actual statistics. I agree with your opinion that if he does not have enough time to check those applications, he might give rights to the global mods so they can appoint new merit sources. But I feel like he does not think that the forum needs more merit sources.

Accumulation of sMerits can be avoided if the number of merits for good posts is increased - so if someone has so much and doesn't manage to spend it, why not find 5 or 10 exceptional posts every day and reward them with 50 merits each? Anyway, that's just my opinion, without wanting to interfere with how someone disposes of their sMerits.

That's completely unnecessary, and it's not his work to do. If a user thinks there should be a topic showing pending merit source applications, they can create one, but the admin wouldn't do that because it's not a necessary thing to do.


Reduce stress? What's to be stressed about in this? It's not like the ones who have pending merit source applications are not allowed to do specific things or have anything to worry about. Even if someone's application gets rejected, there is still nothing to be worried about.


The reason why theymos is not approving applications is obvious, he doesn't feel it's necessary for now. It's not like he didn't come online or didn't notice the applications. He comes online, checks everything, he even implements changes around the forum but if he isn't approving any applications, it means he doesn't want to do that for now, and we should let him take his time and make the decisions himself instead of trying to force him to do it quickly.

Merit sources application takes time to be approved because;
1. Only on person approves it;
2. There are criteria to qualify as a merit source;
3. If such criteria are not met, theymos will not tell you that you are illegible, he'll remain mute and you'll just keep bumping the thread.
4. Theymos will need to be convinced that the system actually need addition;
5. He will also be convinced that the applicant is a right choice for the job.
These and many more prolong the process.

Maybe mods, yes. But Trusted users? I have seen one too many turn to the dark side and there is no such thing called "trust" in the online presence.

I think the strictness is necessary to prevent the abuse of merits. Definitely would not want the responsibility to get diluted from staff to common users. Even a voting system will always be biased towards more merit sources always.

That is what theymos suggested too and let me quote his exact words.
If merit sources try to exhaust merits then there would  more smerits for users to spend so there's high chances of getting merit for every deserved posts.

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Voting system will make it more biased and it's just better theymos alone decide who can be the merit source and he only knows when maybe on booze or after getting laid. :D

Well I'm getting a little convinced after much that voting maybe a considerate parameter but I'm still kind skeptical to believe despites as DT members if everyone may be able to vote on the right choice and not voting by self interest. Then it'd seem being politicized.
But on contrary the voting might be preferable if the merit source would be of the local boards because then, definitely members of the boards would be in best position to denote the merit source applicants that'd be best suited for their local board for merit source.

The way a lot of people’s are been apply merits source all this while if to that’s how they been approved once without taken some time peoples will not lack of merits anymore, honestly the way people’s are lack of merits now that’s why a lot of where demand for the merits now, it will good if theymos can considering them so that the merits can begin flow in the like before.

Because i observe something in this forum since the time those Mixer’s leaves this forums the merits is know more circulating again; because their the one managing the merits source and that’s I didn’t blame those users that are  for the merits source.

Very well there are criteria that the admin that approves merits source applications follows in approving potential merits source applications and since it just a one man Job, there is need for us to give him that benefits of dought that he has his own criteria to follow in approving such applications so for that we need to be less speculative about merits source applications and just do the our best to sports any application that we seem fit for consideration and if Admin See's any convincing point he will act on source application.

We need to allow him the time to make the right judgement and also support the decisions of the admin regardless of how long it takes for source an application to get considered.

Where can I find your thread?
I have gone through your timeline but I cannot see the particular merit thread.

The merit system has worked fine since its implementation with theymos solely determining the number of sources and their allocation. I do not think there is a need to change the system cause some users haven't been approved yet, that will just be inviting more drama and conversations about why some users were picked over others.

Being on default trust doesn't mean someone is knowledgeable on the merit distribution or needs or which users are a good fit, neither is that the responsibility of someone on DT. Opening up voting to all members cannot work either, for the above reason.

Mods will be the one group I think understand the forum well enough to make decisions based on its needs. Trusted users should be those trusted by the admin or a community vote on which users have good enough judgement to appoint merit sources.

Here is it : [Merit] Share your best posts/threads with Fillippone to be merit assessed (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5412657.0)

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I guess that's what he defined as Trusted member not the DT members cause people are not using the DT system in the way it supposed to be and it lost it's mojo ever since the new DT system implementation.

In the poll i voted for things to remain the same way they are now, and that is for Theymos to approve merit sources on his own only, i am not in support of a voting system, it will look more like an election, people will vote for their friends on the forum and users with more 'friends' will likely become merit sources.

I agree that Theymos takes a lot of time in making decisions, but sometimes doing nothing, or doing things slowly is a good thing. There are many good users waiting to be merit sources, and i believe Theymos will give his approval, but we don't know when.

Criteria for a merit source or increment of merit allocation to existing merit sources haven’t been an open ballot system. I hope it doesn’t because, this would be exploited although, I wouldn’t dispute the fact that, some inactive merit sources needs to be removed or have there allocations reduced and transferred to other merit sources that would be lacking in Smerits as well as, remove inactive merit sources and replace them with some active, versatile and reputable users to have applied. This would be the better option for me but, i really don’t get to decide.

The DT and Feedback system trusted to the community is already turning into a personal weapon against the weak, do you think theymos would entrust the same community with the only functioning system left? I'm not sure we're ready to handle such a sensitive system.

It's better the way it is.

If you go to my post timeline, that thread is quite difficult to spot.
If you fo to my merit timeline, that thread is quite easy to spot ;)

A voting system for merit source is a good idea, but the problem is that it would turn the merit source election into a popularity contest, which is not a good thing for the forum in the long run.

I know it may sound that way but any time trust is mentioned, it does not be default refer to DT. If you had read the second paragraph of my post you would have also known that's not what I'm referring to at all.

Or attract abuse by using multiple accounts, if the criteria of eligible voters is very relaxed.

I always find it funny to see and read such words as "should."
I would respond to this like: Don't tell me what I "should" do, and I won't tell you where you need to go. ;D

But seriously, today's OP lawyer is primarily concerned about himself and maybe about his alternative accounts.

Merits are actively distributed; just check the local sections. Users transfer merits to each other or themselves. Pay attention to the topic of the recent pizza giveaway. Does anyone believe that people regularly look at ready-made pizzas? It was from hunger, wasn't it?
I think everything comes into its own time. And the problem with all today's nominees for sources of merit is that they want to rate good posts. Some want to help, while others abuse. But people who receive some merits send them to their friends and do not give them for truly worthy posts.
I am sure that the admin sees this, and that is why he does not add new sources.

First of all, some merit sources are there. They are just not publicly known.

How do you know, if someone is selected or not? Not all merit sources are public. And also: becoming a merit source could also mean, that person would have less merits to distribute, not more (for example: if I would be selected, I would probably lose some merits, because of that).

In general, if you think, that more posts should be merited, then you should make a list of that, and then, those who have more merits, than they can spend, could use your list, to merit something.

Also, let's see, if you can manage to do that correctly. Here are some merits, now I will observe, how you will spend them.

Well, people probably don't have enough merits on their local boards. But honestly, I saw some local boards, and usually, there is not enough posts worth meriting, and that is one of the reasons, why I stick with the global boards. For example: it is normal to see something valuable in the global board, and get it translated, and posted locally. But seeing the other case: someone creating some great local post, and getting it translated into English, is quite rare case.

The whole point of making some merit sources private, is to prevent some abuse. So, even if after your topic, someone will be approved, then you may never know about it, if that person won't reveal it. And this is tricky, because if you won't tell anyone, then your chances of getting selected are usually higher (not all merit sources created their topics, some of them were just picked without that).

Some time ago, I decided to usually send one merit at a time, because in this way, more posts can be merited. If you distribute all of your merits quickly, then you run out of merits, and then, you have a problem, described in the topic. However, if you spend less merits at a time, then you have more merits, for more upcoming valuable posts.

Also, the act of holding merits is generally positive, because it sends a message, that "try harder, if you want to get some merits". If you distribute a lot of merits instead, then some people can get lazy, because they will think, that "who cares, I will get some merits anyway, no matter what content I will post".

I agree. I put some more, to make the sum 100, and let's see, how OP will send them. Because I am honestly curious, where are those great posts, which are worth more attention.

On one hand, Theymos might be thinking that the merit circulation in the forum is still fine for the moment, the reason much considerations are not given to the numerous merit source applications. But on the other hand, the increase in number of merit source applications with justifiable reasons, some of which include reduction in merit circulation in some local boards, is a confirmation that there is actually need to add more merit sources to the list. Anyways, it is in the hands of Theymos to consider and I hope more merit sources are added to increase the merit circulation more than we are already seeing.

Most of the MS are publicly known, and the reason is very simple - the number of merits that such members give is generally much higher than the sMerits they get outside the merits source (forum). Look at the bold members here. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4523027.0)


The easiest way to find out that someone has been selected is for him to publicly admit it in the topic he opened for this purpose of applying for the merits source. It is not something that makes sense to hide from others, especially those who have publicly expressed their support.

If I understood you correctly, you seem to think that you can lose merits (what is visible in your profile) if you give too many merits to others? This is simply not true, the number of those merits can be reduced only by the intervention of the admin in case of abuse - the only thing that can be reduced is the number of your sMerits, which are visible only to you.

Exactly. Let's assume that someone is a source, and can send 10 merits per month. If that person will run out of merits, then it will receive 10 merits, at the end of the month. But: if that person would have 20 merits, it would be set into 10, so half of that would get permanently burned.

And that's why people think, that there are no new merit sources. Because if that would be the case, then some merits would get burned. But what if that's the case?

That's not how it works.

If you want to know the way someone gives their merit, check their merit history, in this case here's the @OP's merit history. (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/3557328.html) Even someone don't have sMerit, they can report to unmerited good post thread.

Now I'm curious, what if @OP merit the posts that didn't qualify to be high quality/great posts as your standard... I mean what you guys gonna do?

This is not the first time, that such things are done. For example: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5460251.msg62569425#msg62569425

Nothing? I have more merits than I need, so I can give them away, from time to time.

I think if theymos approved you to make other merits source then it would be so nice, tho I don't know yet if you already have the ability to appoint one, looking from your status as global administrator you should have that capacity. At least 3-4 mods to be appointing sources would be so good. But from most of the replies here it shows that they are perfectly fine with theymos appointment than just voting or other person appointing mods. Apparently, I really appreciate your inputs here and I never knew my post could draw your attention.

You are right though I can't detects how quality a post should be for you or any other user but for myself I can. Just that the way at which others inspects their post and other may not seemly looks alike hence, you see more people spending more merits than others while others still drags their feets on how quality a post should be. I guess this topic isn't quality enough for most you who commented here maybe my rank isn't qualify enough that is why it's seen as none quality post is that right?

If that's the case in your assumption about theymos or admins probably thinking that the merit circulation in the forum is fine then the the many recent merit source applications from users of different local boards is  enough indication to make him realize that his aspersions are not entirely correct as he may be thinking which has maybe led to the delay from him in the ratification of new merit source to the list.  Or maybe a poll just as the Op suggest could be made for the community to vote if there is any need for additional merit source for now or not.

There are merit sources and they're distributing merit to forum users. There are forum members who are not sauces but are distributing merits to forum users too.

Do I need more merit sauces?
I don't think so and I believe that I can rank up slowly, it's not big problem.

I think if you read op correctly is directly saying why there are much pending application to be appropriate and of course if you watch there is much more pending. Isn't directly saying about ranking but for a formal statement or something likely trying to let people know the reason why they aren't making more people source and with this it's more appreciatable. And I sense from the op the major interest what triggered s/he was a result of reading up icopress application I guess.

This is indeed not cool. Theymos asked people to apply, and when I did, it took 3.5 months (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2851620.msg37645060#msg37645060) of bumping before I was made a Merit source. Nowadays applications are ignored for years, even though they follow the required format. A "yes" or "no" would be good.

If you think it's easy to find that many exceptional posts per day, please do so and post them in Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5093271.0). I've Merited 3169 users (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3078328.msg64533946#msg64533946) in 15535 transactions (data from 2 days ago), and I don't want to spend even more time "looking for good posts". If I see them, I Merit them.

I've never agreed with this post, because 50 Merit for a random Newbie with one good post seems too high to me. Even theymos himself doesn't do this. See theymos' sent Merit in the last 120 days:

But most of the merits really come from merit sources, right? If you're not a merit source but you're generous in distributing merits, you're definitely doing the right thing because you're helping the forum overall.

If it's just for you, that's fine, but if you look at the overall picture of the forum, it's clear that there’s a significant need for merits. We want this forum to grow and become stronger, which means attracting new members who are willing to contribute or become major contributors in the future. Merits are a key way to encourage more posts because, let’s face it, having more merits improves your chances of earning here on the forum.

And then the forum will suffer from merit inflation.

Now your merit received in the last 120 days is 1, I'm 23, other user let's say 100. Having more merit sources could increase the chance to receive more merit, let's say your merit 120 days become 2, but what if I received 46? and other user who was received 100 merits, now they received 200 merits?

So, having more merit sources doesn't actually improves your chances to earn more.

Sorry, but I think you missed the point. Merits should be shared among different users. Even if we doubled the merits given out, there would still be plenty for everyone who contributes. Plus, when new merit sources are added, they’re carefully reviewed, so only deserving people get approved by Theymos.

So, don’t stress about it. Good merit sources will help make the forum better by not just rewarding regulars but also focusing on newbies who deserve it.

You might have noticed that many newbies who rank up to Legendary or Hero often become less active afterward. This happens because they have enough merits and can join signature campaigns. If deserving newbies get more merits, it will bring fresh energy and new contributions to the forum.

Either the status will be or there will be no need for a merit source in the next xx period. If 'yes' to specify which boards will have priority, it would be very easy to end the matter.

That is why I would not apply for merit source status. An additional ungrateful duty.

If you see it as a duty, then you are perfectly fine not being a merit source.
The important thing is contributing to the forum. And I bet there are other ways other than being a merit source.
Writing good posts is far more difficult than meriting good posts.

Does it mean that those who are applying as one doesn't see it as duty?
I think there is no duty applying as merits source, the only thing I captured there is about source spending more time reading and writing because definitely they must come across topic to have  discussion just as we are having our conversation here, and any post that worth meriting would definitely received the merits. Therefore, I see no duty over there except the source doesn't read post before they comment and of course no merits source or a reputed member of that dignity that won't read post before commenting or giving out merits.

I'm not one of those who think that such topics should exist at all, because if you don't read the whole topic (or a good part of the topic), the post you awarded can be just a repetition of what others have already written before in that topic. I'm more in favor of a more natural approach, in other words, I don't consider surfing the forum to be any kind of waste of time - when I see a good post, I reward it with merit in the way that my sMerits allows.

My statistics in this regard are much more modest, but considering that I am not MS, I have rewarded a little less than 800 different users so far.

Some say theres enough merit sources for now. But our Local section (Philippines) needed one indeed. Maybe if possible theymos could update us whether those applications from various members are still given consideration for approval so everyone can know if were expecting more MS to be joining the list.

IMO 50 merit is too much but he was trying to say that merit sources better exhausting their merits on whatever the posts they find as meritable than instead of just wasting them and merit system isn't fair or complete system but it's the best we have got to tackle the spam and merit sources might be more knowledgeable than a random newbie but if they consider a post that may deserve merit then merting is the right way of using it instead of looking at the user's reputation/rank.

I vote for increment of merits source in this community, because if you look around the community, you will discover that few merit sources are doing their work diligently in this community which is not suppose to be in this community because the number of users is increasing daily in this community which the number of merit sources should be increasing along side with the number of new users in the community. Maybe the delay is best known to only admin alone and what he  conclude on this community is final, but if he can redress this scarcity of merits source in this community to approve some qualify merit sources, I think it will increase many users to stay in quality post in this community.

The last time I checked the post of Rikafip (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5231446.msg64482863#msg64482863), your local board was looking good with merits. I am not aware of the merit source of your local board but I do see global sources are generous with merit. Please do not negatively take my reply but some boards like mine do need a dedicated merit source or a global merit source who is willing to give some time for us. Your argument can be valid if you have the same activity that we are seeing without anyone helping or encouraging our local board members.

I think that you were looking at something else because Phillipines local board consistently has one of the lowest merit/post ratio among all local boards, and its been going on few last few years. For example, last month their merit/post ratio was only 0.13, with only Greek board having lower ratio. So yeah, they could definitely use more merit sources.

I hope the Philippines will have a new merit source. I seldom post on my local board but always check the discussions, There are a lot of conversations among our locals here that's worth merited, and the flow of conversations is very interesting, ranging from our fight to adoption and recognition to what's happening to the industry that affects our country.

Adding more merit sources really depends on Theymos since he is the one who created the merit system and the one who sees the stats, Maybe with this discussion he will have a change of mind and approve new merit sources, and that includes our local board.

IMO, it might be hard for the admin to appoint a new one and weigh if it can carry that responsibility. (not abusing the merit)

But I hope someday our beloved admin will see our struggle in the merit cycle in our local, not for now maybe in the future.
However, this is a big challenge to us or our local board (Philippines) that doesn't mean we don't have a merit source we don't have a chance to rank up.  Global merit sources are still generous and actively spreading their merits to cycle.

I have it collectively there

• Merit source observations (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5180975.0)
• Checking today, we have same total merit sources but there is small increase in monthly sourced merit, from 32990 on 1 May 2024 to 33190 on 15 September 2024.
• There is a small increase of 200 monthly sourced merit.

I have once seen a list comprising of all the merit sources so I think merits sources are not secret unless I'm wrong.

Maybe you are referring to someone with enough smerits before being made a merit source for which the smerit allocation is lower than what he has, that should be the only way the smerits will be reduced. If that be the case, you are suggesting that merit sources cannot send more than their merit allocation per month and even if they receive merits, the smerits will not add to their total sendable for the month, this I find a little confusing and need more clarifications.

Which means the big man is looking and do what's necessary and that's what the 200 increased limit implies. I have few assumptions of who got it but it will leads to a lot of speculations so I am just mentioning that he is aware of the discussion or atleast the need of change in the merit allocation but I hope he will remove the inactive users if there are any and approve some from the long pending list.

After reading the op, I read few comments and your comment caught my attention. I sincerely agree with this probably most local board lack merit source with multiple applications, if the English board doesn’t need merit source which I feel is wrong because most people are still worth the chance due to their contributions etc. I can’t tell if the admin or theymos finds it interesting adding new merit source but most local board needs a merit source as mentioned and my local board is also in need of merit source (naija local board). Creating another application for now is unnecessary, why? admins can always select old applications if necessary but the silent now is perplexing.

Apart from established users as one of the requirements, perhaps credibility is another requirement that was not mentioned. Only admins know what the specific criteria are for being designated as a new achievement source, but in the early implementation stages, some users told me that achievement sources are specifically designated and offered.

Now many local users have grown and they have become established and highly reputable users. Of course it would be good if one of them was appointed to become a new merit source so that merit circulation in the local board increases, but the admin certainly has the best reason why until now many merit source applications have been delayed. Hopefully there will be some enlightenment on this and admin will start to take some users into consideration.

There's alot to what would happen... It's a discontinue process that one thing would surely escalate into another -- just like pai which is always equal to a discontinuous sequence of numbers till &
 local board posters would build a super ald and nominate it as a source with the highest votes.... Then whatever happens afterwards would be non ya business right?  :P it goes on and on....

I'd say, Theymos doesn't really feel the need to add new merit sources IMO... or he's just gonna take actions to any request on when it's constantly posted as a reminder? Remember what happened when TP needed a name change? At some point, we lost interest and started ignoring his display name, until that miraculous eve!

Something I noticed with theymos is that he doesn't make decisions based on reputation alone, if he doesn't see the need to add more merit source he won't. Recently there has been some good merits distributions around the forum especially on the local boards.

The issue with the Philippine board is that only a few people apply to become merit sources, and even when someone does apply, it often takes a long time to get approved.

We probably need a new group of active users who can be evaluated by Theymos. Do you remember who was approved as a merit source from the Philippines? The last one I recall was cabalism13, who isn’t active anymore, and the last application I saw was from crwth, who had some issues with cabalism13 over how they handled the charity situation. Because of that, it’s likely that none of the current Philippine applications will be approved, as that incident might have caused Theymos to lose trust.

Well, merit sources cannot accumulate merits for longer, than a month. If you have 10 merits per month, then when you have more, they are reduced. Which means, that if you have hundreds of received merits, and you become a merit source, then if you don't send all of them quickly, they will vanish.

So, merits can be accumulated only by those, who are not merit sources. Because if you are a source, then you have a choice: send some merits, or lose them (after a month).

Now that the OP has received a significant amount of merit after creating this thread, we can see what posts the OP considers quality. Taking responsibility for distributing merits based on a fair view and not because of friendly relations is a very difficult decision for some.
However, we see a couple of merits that the OP owes for a post from a year ago ;D. This just proves my point about why people are so concerned about the lack of more sources of merit


And yes, I agree with you; constantly whining about merit only shows the weakness of some that they are unable to earn it themselves, and still consider the forum to be a school where grades are usually given for completing homework.

There are some great contributors on the forum who don’t necessarily get merits. Personally, I’m not chasing after a lot of merits just for my own gain. Recently, I’ve noticed that activity in our local section is dropping, which is a bit concerning.

I think one reason might be our lack of merit sources. I was wondering if we could create some informative threads in English to attract attention from merit sources outside our community. This might increase our chances of getting some merits.

Having a merit source to distribute merits could really boost activity in our local section, and possibly in others too. From what I’ve read, some locals are struggling without a merit source.

So, I’ve started this thread in hopes of sparking some interest and maybe getting some support from fellow members.

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 I (we) could share some merit-s  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5509366.msg64537209#msg64537209)

 Since we don’t have a merit source, could it be beneficial to post in English?   (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5509364.msg64537145#msg64537145)

AFAIK, merit sources too have their own sMerits that they accumulate just like everyone else by earning one merit for every 2 merits they recieved and then the source merits which are those only can't be held more than a month. Once it reaches the new cycle the source merits replenish to the allocated amount but still they will be having their earned sMerits left alone as much as they are.

But I always wondered when a merit source decide to merit a post they have a choice to pick that merit is gonna be from their source merits or sMerits or it's just always from source merits and they get to spend their sMerits only after they exhausted their source merits.

If their posts are really good, they will get merit when they report the posts in this thread [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5093271.0)

But, if they don't get merit after they posts in there, it means their posts aren't that great, no offense.

I don't think this is correct.

It sounds like you want and encourage people in your local board to meriting with each other without care about the quality posts.

And why it must be 10 or fewer merits in the last 120 days? many signature campaign ask 5-10 merits in the last 120 days in their requirement, is this just a coincidence? ::)

I think not every forum member is aware of that thread. What I’d really like is for it to feel organic, where people don’t have to actively think about earning or searching for merits, but still have the chance to receive them if we have some to spare. This way, it keeps the flow natural and encourages quality contributions without the pressure of chasing merits.


Kindly read again the full thread brother, my intention is clean and I want our local to grow.

If you don't believe in my judgment, then I completely respect that. After all, we're all just humans, and it's impossible to please everyone.


It's not just a coincidence; I really thought it through, focusing on giving merits to those with fewer merits. And honestly, it’s just one thread, so they still have plenty of ways to earn merits. I believe merits shouldn’t be held back since their purpose is to encourage more activity in the forum. Like I mentioned, it’s based on my personal judgment or that of my fellow countrymen whether to give merit to a post. Rest assured, the goal here is to "increase activity in our local board," which, if you visit, you'll notice has really few visitors now.

If you have any suggestions, feel free to share them on the thread I created. I specifically wrote it in English so that everyone could understand and contribute their opinions. Again, I respect your thoughts on this.

Bahahaha.... Lovesmay, why are you looking blue?

Heyyy ....woah! That was a joke ... gotcha!  :P

---

He's not getting a couple of merits cause he posed himself around as an op that creates quality post, I see it from a different picture; first of all, i was surprised - ain't gonna lie - to see the OP getting such credits  for a fact that has been in everyone's head... 

Makes me wonder what exactly a quality post looks like to most people around in here..... This isn't thrown at anybody specifically but, that's it.  So, I get that It's an accolade in concordance of what has been ringing in our minds already ^{[Lovesmay, you don't wanna add 10 more merits for him?  :P]}

I'm not tryna defend his ass, but I can say that OP wasn't even expecting to earn such a huge number of merits at once -- atleast not from this post.

Maybe you weren't getting what I meant on my post, I didn't created this topic in request to receive merits but when I visited this section i came across icopress application, considering the kind of person he is as a well known user over here and yet his application wasn't approved got me annoying. If it was approved then there is no day people will go bump up that topic to start discussing about him becoming approved, however I was actually shocked to the level of merits received so far from here. Why no I wouldn't be that open to waste it on useless post that doesn't count meaning to me or even helpful to me I wouldn't just merits because people are meriting that post and any post that has already gain I won't spend there again.

But wait.. is this how source behave? I feel like boss 8)
Anyway how come you didn't spare some to me, okay I give you now ::)


Apparently I don't have this idea, meaning those who are source and are not sparing it away to people get burned after the duration of months, so what is there need of not giving them out to post that worth in their local boards or English boards?

I am of the opinion that "there should be a voting system" and "Everyone should be allowed to vote"

Everyone should be allowed to vote except newbies and junior member. The reason why I am on the opinion that those low rank should not vote is because they don't have a better knowledge of the merit applicant that will do very well if they are appointed and because newbie members don't have the idea about the member they will pick, they will only pick randomly. High ranks such as member rank to legendary who have a good knowledge about the forum and have also have knowledge about the forum member will pick wisely.

If newbies are also allowed to vote, some people can cheat because it is so easy to just register a new account for the purpose of voting. Therefore, if everyone must vote, there should be some arranged criteria to be used. It's just my opinion.

Well like I said voting may be from DT members and not just from an ordinary members who does not know the sole purpose of merits source. If this restricted are set leaving on DTs or few admin and mods to do voting it would be nicer than just keeping everyone silent.

Good suggestion, they became DT members for a reason (they’re trusted), so we should trust their judgment too. A DT member being a merit source as well means we can be fairly confident (though not 100%) that merit distribution is pretty balanced. Of course, they might have favorites, but I doubt they give merits just based on that. I’m sure they still consider the quality and value of the post.

So yeah, I voted in the poll. I think a voting system would be a good idea.

DT system is kind of back scratching phenomenon so it makes anyone to be on DT2 if they like that person but it should not be used in the way. Whatever merit source is not same as DT, for someone who needs to be merit source they really needs to be trusted from the administration and ensure there won't be any abuse at all which is one of the reason theymos has been hesitant with adding merit sources and staff members if I am not wrong.

Maybe staff members or people from DT1 can only makes sense if ever we consider the voting system.

Why you trying to fix a system that isn't broken. Has there being complaints that the current system isn't functional properly. How to be chosen as a source is open to the public, you highlight 10 unmerited posts or those that haven't received enough merit and theymos reviews your report.

When there's an available slot you get offered the job. There isn't any need to start bringing voting that'll bring politics into the whole thing. Anything voting will come with biased views so let's just let it be as theymos know what he's doing.

There haven't been much new sources getting approved lately because (according to theymos) they're already lots of merit in circulation but although the circulation isn't in equilibrium still people are getting rewarded for their quality discussions so no need for any altering, my opinion.

I agree with you. According to the OP, given his position on voting, it would be necessary to add open voting (I think he was too modest to suggest this ;D) so that those who elected their preferred source of merit would then have the right to demand merit from him. It's like the presidential elections—we elected you; now, please, do it. I even see a separate list of people from his friendly company who will choose their candidate.

I'm afraid this is a falsified information! You ain't no merit source so how did you resolve on this? I don't mean to derail the thread but the warnings are barely kept in place to incentivise people to not HODL them, which would affect the general circulation if everyone decided to, but, for a fact, nothing really happens to 'em smerits.
So merit can be accumulated by anyone regardless.

This may also be a problem  :P

The system is made in a way that the frequency in distribution is solely dependent on the user's preference; choice of quality, interest, exposure, all to their own discretion. Seems like that's the reason why Theymos is even more cautious on WHO, WHAT deems their interest as "quality" and how effective they can be overtime.  Man, in some type of ways, I think I love how he delays everything without even saying a word! Cause, most people are just the usual OPPORTUNIST.

The voting system is not too bad as well. And I also support only DT members voting system because if you allow everyone to vote there will be an over population voting. And this can make the DT members to be functional and respected in the forum. And those who submitting merits application will give respect to those DT members. And there will be friendly coexistence among members. And if theymos is appointing any merits source  it should be the one that is generous and not the user that is selective.

And from the merit give out from the applicant so far, some of them doing well, merit is scarce in the forum this days probably the current merit sources are on break. There should be replacement of those that have left.

It's funny how some people think that the DT system is completely flawless and there won't be politics, partiality, and personal matters/grudges if they are given the right to vote for a specific group of people for them to have certain privileges.  :)

Just a reminder to all those who are suggesting that it is a good option to only allow DT members to vote in this matter, DT members are not a group of people who are chosen by a higher authority for their services and everything. This used to be the case before, but things changed (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.0).

So, I think we should leave such decisions to the admin, theymos, because he is the only one who we can trust 100% for thinking only for the well-being of the forum without having any personal issues or anything affecting his decisions.

I buy this point I put in bold. I remember when I was new in this forum sometime last year, the merit sources like hugeblack, The Cryptovator, Welsh and others were very much active to distribute merit to well deserving members of the forum and it was easier for those putting in their best to grow and rank up, but most of them are now not really having much time for the forum activates, I don't blame them though because we all are always looking for greener pastures and I think some of them found it outside the forum.

However, they should give up their positions as merit sources or Theymos can add more merit sources to aid them in their absence. The forum needs more merit sources and there are capable users to appoint, it's sad to know it takes this very long appointing one since some boards in the forum needs them urgently.

I voted for the "Let theymos decide."

You know the fact that one person handles managing the forum which is his priority makes a valid reason why the process takes long, and  I don't think much time is given to finding merit sources for the fact that mods are also needed or changed once in a while makes this whole process difficult to keep track of because you want to separate those that know the forum well from those that read more of other users posts who can make good merit sources.

To be honest,  to give merit value they need to be scarce and one way of doing this is to have less merit sources and not more...AFAIK making ranking up difficult is one of the reasons I think the forum keeps going too ::)

Merit are not scarce, but quality posts are scarce.

There are less merit sources in 2024 than several years ago, see Merit source observations (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5180975.0) but total monthly sourced merits are higher than in early years since Merit system kick of in 2018.

And who told you ranking up in 2024 is harder than years ago?

I think forum mostly recognized active poster and not lazy people who don't want to put efforts to contribute to the forum, again when you watch people nowadays seems that they are not putting energy to advanced the forum although I know that not everyone must have a technical knowledge or experience but at least should contribute in the area where they feels they knows more better, with this the forum will be a lovable place for everyone though it's still an admirable place but efforts is what needed to grow here.

Technically, it is, based on the fact that users before the merit system could rank up by posting garbage around the forum because all they needed was activity points which one could achieve by making posts regardless of the quality of your posts. A single word such as "Yes" or two words such as "I agree" could earn you activity points if it wasn't removed by a mod. So unless you guys are talking about the years when the merit system existed, it was easier to rank up before it.

However, that is or has been about users who don't deserve to rank up in the first place. Anyone with enough understanding about the forum and this industry will not find the merit system to be a barrier in their way of achieving higher ranks for their account. The merit system was introduced to stop account farmers, spammers, and those unworthy of ranking up to rank up.

Maybe ranking up is more complex, but I think today it is easier to figure out what bitcoin is, given the vast amount of resources, and how to behave in the forum, given as well the number of guides and threads.

As always, all is about dedication.

Speaking of guides:
Ranking up is possible! 2900 Merits earned in less than 12 months!My 11 Hints! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098333)

Hey @fillippone. Nothing major, but you pretty much messed up the quote in your post there.  :D

The text "And who told you ranking up in 2024 is harder than years ago?" was posted by @tranthidung in this post of his (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5509136.msg64690649#msg64690649) but you made it look like @Perfectbaby wrote that in his post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5509136.msg64691419#msg64691419).

As I said, nothing major, but you should probably rectify that to avoid any sort of confusion. :)

Well to me I am not complaining about ranking up and it's something that based on dedication and self developer, because anyone who is dedicated can easily grow here without the need to have any difficulty within the forum. But for sure it's always difficulty to start as starter or newbie but whenever user manage to secure the full member rank it's always easier to grow more faster than beginning as newbies or Jr.member.

Oh yeah? Icopress isn't a merit source? I didn't know that until now. I thought he had been all along. Anyway, maybe it's because I don't actually check who's a merit source and who isn't.

Theymos is intentional with what he does and also by not putting up regular appearances here. It's like a big masquerade in a traditional setting. It puts up appearance once in a blue moon by creating scarcity in order to avoid familiarity. Whenever it does appear, the expectant audience erupts in excitement.

That brings us to the whole idea to Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power. It's captured in Law 16  –Use absence to increase respect: The value of something increases with scarcity..

Never made him source, though for now i can't still tell but when I came across his merits source application i was touched seeing how reputed he could be and yet such honor wasn't granted to him. It's actually painful to see that he isn't one them.