Bitcoin Forum

bitcoinmania.eu/paypal-bitcoin-integration-coming-very-soon-says-ebay-ceo-international-business-times-uk.html (http://bitcoinmania.eu/paypal-bitcoin-integration-coming-very-soon-says-ebay-ceo-international-business-times-uk.html)

No one in their right mind would use BTC to pay for anything on PayPal. The credit card chargeback protection has always been the front lines of consumer protection from seller fraud on PayPal. Buyer wins 99% of the time.

Most likely there's no way to tell how the buyer is paying. However if there was a way to require BTC payment, that would be a game changer for sure. Because PayPal's policy is not to interfere with intangible goods. Buyer is basically out of luck. Scamming will go the other way as sellers receiving PayPal payments will be secure from chargebacks.

Then there's the issue about withdrawls in BTC and having your PayPal account hacked.

Who will receive BTC payments? PayPal or the seller? It will be interesting to see how this will work at the end. Either way there's probably going to be scamming as usual.

Well thats pretty interesting I had to sign a notary form saying I wouldn't sell BTC for paypal or face permanent account closure haha.

Things change, man. Nice to see you around!  ;D

If there is a charge-back, PayPal will expect you to cover it. If you don't they freeze/close your account same as if it were fiat. Not sure what you think would be different.

Paypal already has a pretty much turn-key solution available to them if they decide to acquire Coinbase. Getting bought out is a very viable endgame for a VC-stage company, and there are business relationships in common between the two organizations already.

PayPal can't take fiat out of your checking account, unless you've approved it. So fiat is just like bitcoin in PayPal's eyes.

Nothing chages for PayPal or Buyer or Seller as far as BTC integration goes.

Buyer buys something for BTC, BTC goes to PayPal who than transfers it to $ and holds just like they hold fiat. When all requirements are met, they send $ to seller (or mybe there would be option to convert $ to BTC and send BTC to seller if he wishes).
If chargeback happens (in period while PayPal holds BTC/fiat), PayPal just returns BTC/fiat equivalent to buyer.
Only thing that changes is that, PayPal is now in control of chargeback decision. Now, credit card houses are one that decide will there be chargeback or not in most cases, not PayPal, with BTC PayPal could actualy start protecting Seller too.

now if paypal accepted bitcoin and integrated it properly to protect consumers and sellers then bitcoin will explode in my opinion. Since basically in my experience from places i shop online 95% accept paypal as payment.

paypal will be the escrow. funds wont be released until customer acknowledges delivery (leaves feedback)

it does not matter if its dollars, pounds or bitcoin. it will b locked into paypal until feedback is given




..... i HOPE

I don't understand why would paypal/ebay would integrate bitcoin ?
Paypal business model = paypal only way to pay.


farking bastards at ebay/paypal.. if you owe fee's they just deduct it.. don't ask.. simply deduct. wtf is that..
I don't know if they still do this, but years ago if you had no $$ in your bank account and paypal had no way to get the money back, you would get a debt collectors letter straight away. nice way of of conducting business.

PayPal is using MANY fiat currencies now. BTC would be just another currency. They earn money on fees for their escov service (that's what they are now and that's what they will stay with BTC). BTC is not PayPal's enemy, BTC is just another tool to earn even more money for PayPal. Those who don't see that are pretty much blind.

People do not use PayPal because they "like" them, they use it because of safety PayPal gives to Buyer. With BTC safety will stay same + it will be even larger for seller and everyone will be happy.

They can very easily integrate Bitcoin as a funding method. What can get really interesting is paying a merchant in Bitcoin after a six month hold back of the funds. ;)

The thing is, unlike fiat money, Bitcoin has the ability to build escrow services in code directly on top of the blockchain, making Paypal (and their exorbitant fees) obsolete!

PayPal using bitcoin = same extortionist fees as with fiat. Bitcoin using integrated escrow = same service without the high fees. Which do you think survives in a free market?

Hint: Blockbuster video ain't doing so great these days.

This is going to be aweeeeeeesome if it happens.
Price should go crazy high as we are all aware, well lets hope.

knowing ebay and paypal they will fuck it up somehow i fear.

i agree here, paypal sucks and I would not store my btc there BUT to get the mainstream, we need paypal (or lets say, its a big advantage!)
so this is huge news :) !

I honestly don't think will happen anytime soon. A LOT of stuff needs to be tweaked to PP's current business model in order for BTC to flow through their system.

When and why did you have to do this?   I am interested...

We're talking about BTC. There's no chargebacks. Let's get some terminology straight here. Chargeback do not equal PayPal disputes. They are different things. Chargebacks are taken care of with credit card while PayPal disputes involve only PayPal.


There is no chargeback. Like I said, that involves credit cards only. You can only open a PayPal dispute. It's pretty much seller protection. So I'd require the buyer to pay with BTC and not accept their credit card if I deem them untrustworthy. That was my entire point in the original post.

Back then I had perfected a way to require buyers to use PayPal funds to pay rather then credit card which gave me almost the same protection as BTC. I knew the system inside out and wrote the PayPal Virtual FAQ on this hence my name.



That was awhile go when BTC was a more sticky subject and PayPal had strict "anti-currency" restrictions. They felt it was a threat to them so anyone buying or selling BTC with PayPal had account closed or what happened to Maidak.

The times they are a changin.

If the first time there may be a delay of 48 hours until your Bitcoins are sent - to prevent fraud, but the second time, will withdraw instant and usually takes 1 -2 hours btc already in your wallet and can be tracked directly in Blockchain.
Withdraw - BTCIni is the easiest way that you can find to buy Bitcoins using paypal and credit card - the only drawback is the cost (lower prices for BTC & SLL) but if you want your Bitcoins directly - this is the perfect solution

I agree here, even if they wanted to implement it immediately, there is so much that they would have to do.   Not to mention all the government stuff that they would have to register and make sure they are in compliance.

I would be surprised to see paypal on board by the end of 2015 at this point.

i think they will adapt it in the begin of 2015  :D

bitcoin-time is faster than normal time  ;)

Lol, PayPal has finally given up,
but if they do integrate it, will you use PayPal?

Wooo finally

Hello,
Sorry for the noob question, but i never used paypal to sell or buy BTC, I only used paypal to get paid in Odesk:, so what is this chargeback with paypal? How can someone scam you buying your BTC with paypal?Thanks!
BR
Gondel

Omg awesome man been waiting for this for a while

I wonder if they will allow currency conversion then, i.e. buying Bitcoin with your Paypal dollars.

Call me a cynic but I can't see this happening anytime soon though I hope it does. They'll obviously be looking at how to implement it but this may take some time.

We will see how they do it; they can find a way to make it mutually profitable for everyone

PayPal will certainly incorporate all the features related to fiat into BTC. Such service is called escrow. The buyers pay BTC to merchants through PayPal.After the buyers receive the products or service and confirm the buying, the merchants get the btc payment.Paypal made decision of charge-back.

This would definitely be good news!

awesome news!!

another big company getting into btc! :o

yes i would use paypal more

Here´s a good Overview:

http://s14.directupload.net/images/140621/urq5itxh.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

My assessment in terms paypal:

The end of this year when Amazon also goes into the bitcoinboat

 ;)

if they hapen to integrate btc,surely it's good news...

Send you PayPal payment. You send BTC to buyer. Buyer does a chargeback from credit card. Your BTC got stolen. That's a simple way of putting it.

Now all those people who say that PayPal is more convenient and less complicated than Bitcoin can stfu

paypal funds often suspend,
I was not too happy with paypal, because it was 2 times my account is locked and I lost money,
so if BTC and may relate bgus paypal, but paypal should be wise again to the user, the user is often impaired by their

and most feared many scammers on paypal

Actually yeah, why doesn't anyone talk about this as a likely scenario? I hadn't even thought about it but now that you mention it I can almost guarantee the VCs have this in mind almost exactly. They know how they multiply their investments.

Well, if Paypal touches Bitcoin I have no doubt what they will end up producing is a steaming pile of crap.

I actually think this is a good thing, Bitcoin going mainstream.
No doubt that the price will go up when they launch it.

Also, Virwox will not be needed anymore. Yay!

I have actually been receiving way more paypal marketing emails than usual. Ones for their credit cards, debit cards, "pay later", etc...

Hopefully in the near future they will be blasting out emails about BTC

"soon"? Not soon enough. I think Paypal is going to have to start accepting or dealing with btc at some point, so they're wise to be looking into it now.

It's a bit pointless to have news articles without dates in my opinion

I feel like this is an old discussion.

Anyway paypal and bitcoin are essentially competing technologies/services. Bitcoin is currently smaller in size than PayPal but bitcoin has much more potential.

Bitcoin will leave paypal obsolete and we should not really care about them accepting or fighting it, because whatever PayPal will do, bitcoin will eventually render them obsolete so we don't need PayPal in the end.

Not to say that this isn't good news, but I'm a little curious as to how beneficial this really will be to Bitcoin.  Would running a Bitcoin transaction through Paypal defeat some of the advantages of the Bitcoin protocol in exchange for the convenience gained?

Celroc

How will it leave it obsolete? If bitcoin goes mainstream were still going to need payment processors. Maybe PP can just compete with bitpay etc.

Agreed. But at the same time, it will make trading Bitcoins easier and more accessible for a large part of the population. See, most of the vendors in Localbitcoins charge a 5% premium. What is wrong with Paypal, if they charge a 3% commission and make Bitcoins easier to exchange?  ;D

If PayPal doesn't have seller protection, it's going to be much higher then 3%. It's up to 30% right now I believe.

But still, I see a lot of people buying Bitcoins through Localbitcoins.com (using Paypal). They are paying crazy amount of premiums, sometimes up to 50%. And I am not sure about the 30% figure which you have quoted.....

bitcoin is a payment processor and a currency in one. When bitcoin goes mainstream we will not need payment processors and/or banks.

Al you really need is an app or something to submit the transaction to the blockchain, and the bitcoin network itself will process the transaction.

Bitcoin is designed not to need 3rd parties. 3rd parties like bitpay make it easier to access, but they are not necessary per se.

It won't happen, there are too many issues with Paypal + Bitcoin, Bitcoin alone is much better

Issues? There is no issue except of lacking legal background concerning Bitcoin (as far as PayPal is concerned). They can implement it in so many ways...like holding payment in BTC form or fiat form etc....alot of posible options (and they dont have to select only one option....they can let customer pick). Escov service with su moch PR and reputation would be good for BTC even with their crazy fees (which they would lower for BTC for sure as they would not have to work with credit card houses in those transactions). It will be up to users to use them or not.

all they need to do is use bitpay to handle the payments and change them into US dollars

Wont they be making their own version of bitpay? That's what I thought their involvement would be.

who were those people?  Sending and receiving BTC is simple and easy.  There are too much rules the users must comply with when using PayPal. Otherwise pp will block your account ,charge back the payment, or ask for high fee.

Very amateur news site, the article is not even dated.

An eBay to spend your bitcons on would actually be really nice! Can't wait to see things happen.

No need to create a new payment processing firm, when they are already in possession of one. They could just add a Payment with Bitcoin option to Paypal. They are charging 2.8% fee for fiat, and for BTC, (I hope) it will be similar to the fee charged by Bitpay (0.99%).

this is funny as hell bitcoin does more than wester union

Credits cards will far harder to come by when the next Dollar-debt-bubble bursts.

I've already had my credit card rights rescinded by Bank of Evil America, it was a Platinum Plus and I've been with that bank for 15 years, since they bought Fleet. Banks just don't give a fuck anymore, I'm apparently too risky to do business with now because I have student loan debt.

Crypto is going to fuck their whole evil system up, and that's why I love it.

paypal is like oh man they're catching up with us damn, time for plan B Collaboration!

Bitcoin credit cards, ok nvm better not give them banks any ideas

"If you can't beat em, join em!"

PayPal knows they're beaten, they didn't get rich by being naive.

yeap, bitcoin is a huge notion, and they're starting to realize that they have a big competitor waiting to give them to whoop down. Rather than fighting a meaningless battle, finding ways to survive based on mutual benefit, seems to the way.

We still don't know for sure. There has been no official announcement from Paypal regarding this matter. What John Donahoe said might be his personal opinion, and not the official position of his company.  >:(

that is so true but it is fun to speculate on the growth of crypto, well at least in my opinion

I really do not see how bitcoin and paypal are even compatible.

One method is reversible and one is not. It is really as simple as that.

Well, I guess they'll just have to innovate a tiny bit now won't they?  ::)

that my friend is why they say opposites attract lol maybe a match made in heaven  :)

Cash is irreversible and bank transfers are not but banks work with cash, they don't like it but they have to use it
Adding a irreversible payment is easier than adding a reversible payment

In case they integrate Bitcoin to their payment system, Paypal will carry a warning that the payments once made can't be cancelled or refunded. That means that there will not be any buyer protection.

Hopefully two factor authentication from physical device not connected to internet is required first, so no bad publicity for Bitcoin when paypal is exploited with weak user security

I doubt bitcoin credit cards will work, but bitcoin debit cards will and are already available. I think they'll be a pretty good idea too.

We don't need plastic cards if you can have money on your smartphone, transfer it easily to your friends or pay with your smartphone! You can always get cash from Bitcoin ATM's if you need some

bitcoin credit is a VERY bad idea for multiple reasons

first of all bitcoin and fractional reserve do not mix very well, and secondly you should NEVER get a debt in bitcoin.


Debt in fiat hardly matters, just wait a few years and you'll have to pay much less, in terms of purchasing power, debt in bitcoin may soon proof to be impossable to ever pay off.

Even unofficial announcement may increase/decrease the share price of Paypal. So, it could be a speculative...

I think paypal will act like an escrow service.

Does anyone else think that we need a "Trusted Buyer" system integrated with bitcoin and escrow? Fuck a trusted seller. Trusted sellers can command higher prices. In the case of the "Trusted Buyer", sellers can reduce prices with the expectation of reduced headaches (disputes [bitcoin escrow] - or chargebacks in the case of PayPal). I'd expect something like this on the market soon that will rival ebay (minus the "PowerSeller"). A good bitcoin seller gives an accurate description of their product and delivers as agreed. A trusted buyer releases escrow immediately if the terms are met.

I think the biggest hurdle to adoption for debit purchases (cash, bank account, bitcoin) purchases is third party trust; which unfortunately we still need to some extent. Escrow solves this. It is essentially what Paypal does and gets paid handsomely. The second hurdle is for the seller to trust that he/she will actually get the agreed upon price in a timely fashion. It's going to happen.

Things like OpenBazaar are likely the future, but running a client that manages financial transactions on a PC is not going to be in any common man's wheelhouse anytime soon. I've been in bitcoin since early 2013 and still refuse to run QT, multibit, or any other client on my desktop. Most consumers will not do this.

truested buyer / trusted seller would be excellent and top it off with trusted company like paypal should be good .... i hope lol

This is the worst thing to happen to Bitcoin to be tainted with paypal is beyond a joke. I was hoping paypal never intergrated it.

Paypal acts like an escrow service now and it almost always rules in favor of the buyer. It would be impossible for paypal to integrate bitcoin into their platform as they will always have the need to reverse transactions after the fact

Paypal is a total scam/joke and they are integrating bitcoin only because Bitcoin would put them out of business .. legacy payment systems will soon be obsolete

All paypal need to do is give the customer the option on each transaction to make it non-refundable. 

Fixed that for you.

I had talked about this before and every seller should be able to pay an additional fee of 1% to prevent all unauthorized transactions. This will solve 99% of all chargebacks. PayPal then calls up the buyer and verifies the buyer made the transaction. Seller has absolutely no responsibility for unauthorized transactions. Seller still has to deal with "not sending disputes" and "description not matches."

But the majority of scams are the unauthorized.

They somehow have to adopt Bitcoin. I just can't see how integrating it would work in their environment.

BTC is a paypal killer.
Don't see how paypal could "integrate" bitcoin into their payment system without adulterating bitcoin.


What we are witnessing are desperate attempts at survival for dying payment legacies - credit cards will be next.

One of the things that Paypal prides itself on is giving the buyer peace of mind by actively stepping in to resolve disputes.  In order to do this, or more specifically, to process a charge-back with Bitcon, I might suppose that they could take complete control over the private keys of any of the Bitcoins that are in their system.

By doing this, they can restrict how coins are sent from their system (Or, in other words, bitcoins can't come out of an account, except as specified through their system.  Remember, in this scenario, they have the private keys.  An average user can only do with the Bitcoins what the buttons Paypal gives them will allow).  Next, with that power, they could make it impossible to transfer the Bitcoins to a non-Paypal wallet.  This ensures that someone doesn't withdraw them immediately after receiving a payment in order to dodge the chargeback.  

However, I suppose one still could exchange their Bitcoins for another currency, but then Paypal still holds the Bitcoins.  All they'd need to do is chargeback the other currency from the seller, then return the bitcoins to the buyer.

This is just a hypothesis on my part.  I do not claim it to be what Paypal plans or intends to implement.  It is just a speculation on my part.

Celroc

How will it work with the significant ups and downs of the value of BTC?
If i ordered something on ebay and the price was 1 bitcoin and the value was, lets say 600$, but i decided to pay only a day after or i jast forgot to, and now the value has droped to 580$, will the seller absorb the difference?

I would imagine that the purchase on ebay would be made in terms of USD.  At the moment of purchase, the BTC equivalent would be locked in and immediate payment would be required.

Soon to be: chargebacks with bitcoin credit cards ---___---

This can't be bad in my opinion. The more eyes on bitcoin, the better. Especially when large names recognize and accept it.

ebay's policy currently has some leeway in allowing buyers some time in paying for their winning bid as they would not necessarily be at their computer when the auction is over. If ebay were to allow bitcoin payments for auctions then I agree that the auction would likely be priced in dollars, but the btc/usd price would likely be effective when payment is received. It would also be likely that payment would be made to an ebay escrow address and the buyer will need to confirm receipt of the goods prior to the coins being released to the seller

Are there any Bitcoin centered auction websites around? I tried Googling that ish, but to no avail.

http://cryptothrift.com (http://cryptothrift.com)

I would say that unauthorized scams are that way because it is simply the easiest. It requires the least amount of proof and the least amount of work. If this kind of feature were to be implemented then we would likely see other types of dispute scams.

I would also argue that paypal would likely charge more then 1% for this kind of feature. They would need to keep an audit-able log of each time they talk to someone. I would say that it would take, at minimum 5 mines for the agent to verify that they are in fact speaking to the customer and verify that the customer authorizes the transaction. I think that most paypal transactions are relatively small (<$100) so I don't think that paypal would want to be making this little on something that cannot be done with automation.

Another issue is that I believe that the FCRA (fair credit reporting act) allows people to dispute credit transactions after the fact. If a customer was to successfully dispute a transaction that could not be reversed to the seller then paypal would have to take the loss. 

Isn't BTC credit card a contradiction? It's a BTC Debit card.


You're right. It would definitely be more than 1%. I'd think of it more like Unauthorized Protection - But like you said other disputes require more work and don't have as high chance of winning. I'd say the system would be better overall.

Whole process can be automated pretty easily.
1. Email verification can be automated. Lots of scammers don't have access to PayPal email.
2. Phone verification. Text to phone. Done.
3. Security questions. The ones you need to pass when signing up for Coinbase. If they fail, seller can make decision whether to proceed.

Coinbase already does all these and I never spoke to Coinbase once on the phone.


TADA! All automated and much safer. After "authorization" is established it's actually pretty easy if they have eBay username. You can just go by feedback.

Regarding the whole unauthorized transaction situation, I think it's ridiculous the seller should ever be liable for unauthorized transactions because PayPal has all the information to do this verification not the seller. (Including IP addresses.)

I try to avoid Paypal like the black plague but regardless, it Should give the Btc price a boost.

Paypal ripped me off for over $3,000 and stop a honest money flow that I built up from $10 a day to $1,000 a day within a week. They locked my account and asked for me to explain. I sent them the biggest email I ever sent and explained from the day I got my first computer up to how I was making that money.

They sent me an automated reply just saying my account is closed for good and they held $1,900 of mine for over 6 months (then they did pay me)

But In all the payments I got that week I never had a chargeback, refund request or any problems from the buyers and when my account got locked, I had hundreds of emails of people saying "I am trying to buy but your paypal is locked...are you a scammer?"

Oh that made me so damn mad (at paypal) that I sent them a very bad email and they sent the cops to my house...to make sure I was not on my way to HQ like I said I was. That was years ago and I have moved on from that but that was a million dollar Idea that only crashed because paypal did not want to work with me...while at the same time they let facebook sell poker chips (in the hold poker game) for paypal or any game credits for paypal and thats against the paypal rules too!


FUCK PAYPAL!

I feel you.

Althought they didnt take as much as you away, they did take $180. I think I know how to get it back (A phone call to support should be good enough).

Overall, it is a positive, due to the increased visibility and acceptance.

The whole "PayPal escrow" concept mixed in with usage of Bitcoin payment should be interesting.

1 and 2 - This would not stop people from saying that their account was hacked and an attacker was able to access the email and 2FA device.

1 - If someone were to hack into someone's paypal email then they could perform a password reset on the paypal account (AFAIK), making this option moot.

2 - This would work, but how would paypal verify your identity when you change phone numbers, or if your phone were to be shutoff because of non-payment? You could potentially be shut out from your money because of this. Another issue is that this would need to be opted in by the buyer, so if the buyer does not opt in then the seller would not benefit from the feature. AFAIK paypal does not offer a way to only do business with accounts with certain security features (they would likely not do this either due to, among other things, security concerns).

2 and 3 - Paypal would have the issue of fake paypal sites that could pretend to be paypal, get your login credentials, then ask for your 2fa and/or security questions then forward you to the actual paypal site. This is what the fake blockchain.info sites do when they try to trick users into putting their identifier and password into the fake site, they actually open their wallet but the coins are transferred out shortly thereafter.

3 - You have the same issue of the buyer needing to opt in but is protecting the seller as above. Having these questions would also not resolve the issue of the fact that paypal would likely not force users to answer these security questions prior to every transaction, it would likely be only once to verify one's identity.

1, 2, and 3 - The current system generally works for paypal as the majority of paypal transactions go through without any issue. It is only with bitcoin related transactions that paypal is not good for (not "only" but it is one of the larger struggles). With a shipped good, it is easy to document that the item was actually shipped to the customer's house, and if so then even if the transaction was unauthorized, paypal could have the customer ship the goods back to the merchant to be reimbursed. It is much more difficult to prove that the customer received any kind of digital goods, and the fact that bitcoin cannot be reversed makes it even more complicated (in theory a digital license could be revoked in the event of a chargeback). 

1. Nothing's foolproof. But you'd be surprised how many "buyers" couldn't do a simple email verification when I was selling BTC on eBay.

2. Back when I was doing business on PayPal with intangible goods, I'd require all buyers to send a phone number to contact them. Scammers are usually shy to accept phone calls. I'd then match the phone number area code to make sure the address state was the same. If not, I'd start asking questions. Tricks like asking to speak to "Mr. Shoobitz" to make sure a kid's dad was aware their kid was making "authorized" purchases on PayPal.

3. PayPal might not offer the option of security questions again. But it should be an option to require it. If I had a payment system, I'd let the seller choose how much protection and charge for each one. Their security questions are crazy tough. Your first cellphone number and cars you used to own. Old addresses.

Intangible goods started way before BTC - MMORPG accounts and goods, Digital codes, digital services, website design, graphic design.

I think a good first step if PayPal uses the blockchain as proof. Then we can at least establish delivery. Right BTC address is a whole different monster. PayPal could make a great escrow for digital currency. Lots of options that I believe PayPal won't take.

$1 for email verification. $1 for phone verification. $5 for security questions. $20 or 5% for unauthorized protection whichever is higher!

With people having cell phones more and using landlines less, it is becoming more common for people to have a telephone number whose area code does not match the "local area code" to which they live.

I do agree with you that many scammers do not want to speak on the phone. I think they are afraid of being recorded making some kind of promise they do not intend on keeping.

Although these are not bad idea, I would doubt that paypal would implement any of them as they would likely somewhat irritate and inconvenience their buyers, who are really their more powerful customers.

Prior to bitcoin, merchants/sellers had little alternative to selling with paypal as paypal was really the option for instant internet purchases. Buyers on the other hand buyers can easily use credit cards to make online purchases, while it would be very difficult for many paypal merchants have too little sales for using a merchant services credit card processor to make sense.   

The sad thing is this isn't even an isolated incident. This kind of crap happens constantly.

Wow , you are selling BTC for paypal and they lock you ?

Makes sense

Paypal does not like people using it to sell digital products. AFAIK it is against their TOS to sell digital products via paypal.

This happens. Sadly.

Receiving funds in exchange for digital goods is against the paypal tos :(

I can`t wait to see Paypal integrate the bitcoin community.
I know it will happen, just a matter of time.

You are allowed to sell intangible goods on PayPal. Selling Bitcoin is also ok under eBay now.

I would never even consider using PayPal with my BTC
Good way to get hacked, account frozen, charge backed, etc

Exactly! and don't forget about the fees paypal will gladly charge you for the "convenience of their services"   :P.

I would think that ebay and paypal would just use the same method to curb scamming that they use now temporarily on new users, where the funds are not released to your account until the goods have arrived at the buyer's address through a tracked shipment or expected arrival date. I see them simply requiring a similar or a manual confirmation for all BTC transactions in perpetuity.


Also/more so I see papal allowing you to fill your paypal balance with BTC that is in turn converted to your native currency for your paypal balance. Which if so could become the easy way to convert BTC to fiat in your checking account.

I wonder if it will happen.

yeah i love it. ebay fees + paypal fees = 20 %

Is this a change to paypal TOS?

I knew that ebay was allowing bitcoin and bitcoin related products to be sold on their site, but I thought that it was still not allowed on paypal (there are even a few threads about this)

For all the hate that paypal gets, they have definitely been a game changer in making online payments easier.

And they reward them self very well for doing so.

Is there any aditional news about PP - BTC integration ?!

I'm very interested in seeing how this plays out.  This could be a real game changer for bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, and paypal.

I guess it was a kind of statement, which means "we know what BTC is and following the situation". I would not expect real changes soon.

Why would we need Paypal to use Bitcoin as a funding instrument? Isn't one of the greatest things with Bitcoin that I can just send money to other wallets without having to go through an intermediary??

Yeah, but paypal is probably going to act like escrow and they also might have an api similar to bitpay.

thats true but for the average joe and bitcoin itself would it be a huge step. personally i would never sent any BTC to the paypal suckers  :P

If paypal acts as an escrow service like they do now then it will probably be full of scammers the same way that paypal is full of scammers now

What do you mean by "full of scammers"? If paypal is an escrow service, they will release the funds to whoever has more proof.

With all the accounts that get locked for 180days and the insane refunds that happen in the buyers favor. I can not see using paypal with bitcoin being one that will benefit sellers. Many years ago I had a terrible experience with paypal/ebay where I lost over $1k. I have not used them since.

But "more proof" simply means who ever is better at documenting the situation, not necessarily who is right. In general Paypal almost always sides with the buyer, this is why it is so dangerous to sell bitcoin with paypal. 

No - scammers know how to use PayPal to their advantage.

I purchased Photoshop on eBay. Seller said legit. What arrived was on CDR with sharpie written code.
I complained to PayPal to get a refund including photo. They said "sorry, he has shipping confirmation, you can sue him but we won't refund" - within a week there were several negative feedbacks on his eBay claiming same thing, PayPal still wouldn't refund.

Then I sold software I wrote, on CD-R and made the mistake of stating it was on CD-R.

Buyer asked PayPal for refund, they refunded him. Why? because "CD-R was against their policy and my advert stated CD-R"

PayPal rules benefit the scammers who figure out how to use the the rules to their advantage. They don't benefit honest folk.
Stay away from PayPal.

I have NEVER had any good luck with paypal. I have used paypal from a buy and a seller perspective. As others have said, 99% of the time they side with the buyer, regardless of what the seller did. The biggest one I ran into was digital services. Paypal will NOT refund for poor service quality as its something that cant be measured. As an example I purchased some game hosting for an online game, the up time was advertised as 99% and it was more like 50%. I tried to get the money back, and was told I cant get a refund because it was a digital service. sigh..

The way I see it, having more merchants / escrows / merchant providers that adopt bitcoin, the better it is for the coin! No one says you will be forced to use their service, thus if you dont like paypal, then its just another option that you can choose to ignore.
I think them buying coinbase would make the most sense, as they already have the tools and integration would be a lot easier on Paypal's end; however, I want competition in the btc merchant niche, so I hope paypal does their own thing.

Furthermore, this might get Google Wallet to setup and eventually enter the game! Hopefully, Google Wallet does something before Paypal! One day, I could see Adsense paying me via bitcoin (hehe).

Yeah right. Their code still uses document.write() - fat chance on them modernizing to bitcoin.

I'd stay away from this. Paypal is evil in every way possible.

This is the problem with paypal, as they like to act as the central authority as to who wins a dispute and they use bias in their decision making that helps them get a larger market share.

problem with paypal is that they don't have any real competition for what they do.. they are also tethered to ebay, so that means they get more clout over ebay transactions.

FUCK PAYPAL!!! They closed 2 of my accounts this last week, & are holding $4500 for 180 days because I used their services to trade Bitcoin! Funny that their CEO goes on live TV and talks about how he owns Bitcoin and thinks it's great but they're still persecuting people for using PayPal for Bitcoin trades!

Yeah. And LTC will be on Gox next week

A service for business and the possibility to easily change BTC in Euro and vice versa then use the Euro to buy on sites that don't accept BTC (yet)

Submitted my stuff. Reference for the new term.

Posts: 484 (excluding this one)

Ehhh. I don't really enjoy dealing with Paypal so much. I hope it won't be such a hassle like it is now. Like their "best" customer support.

Anyone heard any updates about this? I saw that they're looking at options for one of their sub branched companies but nothing for paypal itself?

I wonder how low will Bitcoin go because of that :D

Integrating BTC with Paypal will create serious mess. Paypal likes playing with people's money, limiting them for no reason.

PayPal's a scamming company who always gives buyers what they want even if they're thieves, you're right. This has been documented many times all over the net. However, PayPal will receive the Bitcoin and if you withdrawal the Bitcoin, you'd then have a negative PayPal balance if PayPal robs you via the buyer thief's dispute. If you don't clear the negative balance, you can't make money through PayPal. Don't worry as PayPal will die off once legitimate companies dealing in Bitcoin become more prominent. Their 500 million dollar days are limited.

I dont like paypal, I do like it, but i dont. BTC is lucky no need to be paypalized, its already much easyer to use!

I can't stand paypal and the last thing bitcoin needs it paypal screwing things up.

I guess this is a good thing since if paypal accepts it, then many websites will indirectly accept BTC.  ;)

I agree. Using paypal with bitcoin (sending BTC to your PP account) is very risky as you would be subject to their oversight. Not only would you be giving up your control of your private keys, you would be potentially forced to "give back" some of your coins due to chargebacks.

I think if paypal accepted bitcoin and integrated it properly then bitcoin will explode and it will be good for bitcoin future.But i'm not pretty sure they will accept it.

Looks like paypal finally decide to one side with bitcoins after previous opposition. They now know its a massive network :)

meh

PayPal froze my account and admitted to doing so because my email was bitcoinbottom@xxxcustomdomain.com. Pissed off.

I quit the PayPal, just sticking to bitcoin.

Nice news. Its a one step forward for bitcoin popularity , and we can buy things with btc easily now.

hmmmmm i think legits :D
make easy right?

Paypal is trying to spread its business and recovering from too many unhappy customers. It was bound to happen.

I think this good news for some people

But i don't care, i won't keep my BTC on paypal
and paypal have high fee  :(

But, more service will accept BTC if paypal accept them  ;D

so far only rumours about braintree, I know ebay ceo was very bullish on btc

look forward to some official statement and braintree integration
price should go way up on that alone, whether you plan to use or not

Never thought Paypal will ever one side with Bitcoin after their initial opposition..looks like times are changing

Good thing they did :)

paypal is jst going to use it to charge the 10% fee they normally do on regular sales. its GG no RE and paypal/ebay is going to do something to fuck around on bitcoin. u watch, they will extract fees and be middle men once again and bitcoin will not overcome them because of this.

From the news I understood that bitcoin would have been adopted in these days but seems that maybe it will be implemented in the next months.

Its cool there will be more payment options available when buying things online..

Glad they accepted BTC

bitcoin will integrated paypal

That's hard to believe that paypal is Integrating Bitcoin. They were suspending accounts of users involved in BTC. Even if they do they will still be able to chargeback from your credit card/Bank accounts.

Giving more options is always nice. If Bitcoins were sent from a Paypal account to another one, it would work like now, but with a new kind of money.

I don't think that paypal ever quite charges 10% on transactions. I do agree that they will likely try to profit from accepting bitcoin, probably by continuing to change some fee for accepting bitcoin as payment, only buying it from people at a discount and probably other things that put consumers at a disadvantage.

I've never liked Paypal.
Looks like people will really keep their BTC on Paypal? I'm not giving then mine. No-no.

They could charge much less than what they charge now for fiat money, as transferring bitcoins is much cheaper and they can't be scammed when receiving a deposit, as transactions are irreversible.

How Paypal is going to implement charge-back on Bitcoin payments? Also, there will be no anonymity with Bitcoin payments in Paypal. So, I think even if Paypal integrates Bitcoin to its system, none of the current users are going to use them. May be they will gain some new users, who are finding it hard to purchase and trade in Bitcoin.

It may also be an easy way to get bitcoins if you are selling with Paypal. There's nothing bad with giving more options to customers.

I have when governments and corporations try to get bitcoin from people hands.

I would be more happy if It was "Paypal turning out to be bitcoin".These is their another game of freezing people's money under their outdated fucking terms and conditions.No way I am going back to paypal.Fuck Em

I understand your frustration with Paypal but I had good experience with them.
They refunded me money I send to SCAM site after dispute process so at least they care about their members and try to protect them but of course they are not perfect and make mistakes also.
Still, Paypal is world well known payment service, so if they accept Bitcoin, this will really help us to become mainstream, globally accepted.

Paypal is already dipshit scamming people of their money and limiting anytime. Better they stick with BTC to save some reputation.

Paypal looks like they rolled out a new interface this morning.  It looks pretty similar to the interface of Circle.com IMO.

I wonder if paypal would integrate BTC into their system without integrating it into ebay's system simultaneously?

This thread is already quite old, but yeah, I think that PayPal may get their fair share of the Bitcoin success, too! PayPal is merely a service provider and Bitcoin is the currency. What PayPal may become is some sort of escrow provider that saves the customers form being scammed or ripped of by shady merchants!

I love the idea of this happening and I'm thinking the move would be brilliant on PayPal's part!  I have know doubt that such a service would be well accepted by the community and beyond and PayPal would be thinking why haven't we done this sooner?

What the hell, everytime i see this thread up i think its a new thread and i start panicking.

LOL, apologies.  Why may I ask are you panicking when you see this thread?  Are you planning to go all in or something.  If so I totally get it.  ;)

mixed info.. Some say bitcoin related paypal transaction will get banned and now they are integratiing it.. Im confused.

I am looking forward to seeing how this implementation goes. Would be great if people could buy their Bitcoins instantly through PayPal by using credit cards or PayPal funds.

Why is it that others say that paypal will ban account with bitcoin related transaction?

Nothing is comfirmed, its all a big rumor IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF7HxLCFMeY

"We can spend Bitcoin with a tap, without a pocket..."

It looks legit.

Reddit post here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ft75q/paypal_featuring_bitcoin_in_his_app_we_can_spend/

Something tells me it isn't legit. That video is pretty disturbing. Wonder if they got hacked? Just doesn't seem right. Why would PP be advertising bitcoin right now when it seems to be a direct competitor to them?

Or a valuable weapon. Apple are apparently announcing a mobile wallet tomorrow. The mobile wallet wars have begun.

For buyers, Paypal integrating BTC would in some cases be better than purchasing directly from a merchant with BTC.  I think this is especially so for large purchases.   Despite their being some fees (for the merchant), if Paypal integrates BTC, it gives the buyer an added layer of security in case they don't receive what they purchased, or if what arrives is completely different from what they thought they were purchasing.

The way things stand right now, if you purchase something directly from another person (using BTC), you have to rely heavily on the seller's reputation, and you still have to trust the person to send you what you purchased (unless you use escrow).  If Paypal integrated BTC, then both sides of the transaction would be protected, so in essence the merchant would be paying Paypal a small escrow fee. 

As it stands right now, if escrow is used, both parties need to trust the escrow provider, and there is still the slight chance that the escrow person/company takes off with the BTC.

Then what does Apple have to do with Paypal? And does this Apple wallet deal with bitcoin or is it just some sort of mobile payment wallet?

Because the Apple wallet is the direct competitor.

Define "soon" because these news pop out almost every week but no one becomes true.

Videos like this take a lot of $ and time to make.

Do you think these were all a hack?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/paypal-bitcoin-integration-coming-very-soon-says-ebay-ceo-john-donahoe-1451477

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ebay-ceo-talks-bitcoin-paypal-will-integrate/

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000281677

People have $ and time to make hoaxes all the time. The video seems legit but the audio doesn't. They could've got the video from somewhere else and just muxed the audio over it, and those links don't really mention anything concrete for bitcoin integration either. Just seems a little weird they would do this without any plans actually announced. Doesn't seem to be anything in it for them at the moment.

Why oh why do people get panties all wet at the thought of Paypal accepting Bitcoin?

However it's implemented it won't end well, lets look at some facts:

Paypal loves chargebacks, any customer complaint of any sort and accounts get frozen and the funds within them get held for 180 days......Paypal certainly uses this to their advantage and invest that held money to profit themselves.   Paypal will have a stock pile of Bitcoin from doing the same thing, they can then influence the market with this stock pile and profit further.

Paypal certainly will not give a good BTC -> USD rate, so again they will profit further.

Back to chargebacks, how will this be implemented?  My guess it that anyone wishing to use Bitcoin will be required to have a bank account verified with that account, so any chargebacks can be taken from a bank account.  That is the only way I can see Paypal model being able to work.....which for me raises many many red flags.

We all know how most governments and banks feel about Bitcoin. If you use Paypal to pay with Bitcoins, and the government wants to know who these people are, Paypal will just roll over and spill all.  They will then know who you are, and if they decide to take a tough stance against Bitcoin in the future, innocent of any crimes or not, well, you are directly in the crosshairs.  

The banks will know from Paypal which of their customers are using Bitcoin and will close accounts at will, and if that happens, good luck opening another one.

Paypal accepting Bitcoin, for me at least, feels like an easy way for TPTB to get a hold of who is using it, for them to be victimized later at whatever whim.

I've had nothing but terrible experiences in the past with Paypal, and anyone that thinks them accepting Bitcoin is a good thing seriously needs a head examination IMO.  It will be a HUGE mess, use at your own peril.

All very true Fuserleer !

I really dont wanna give paypal anymore of my money after they done, Why will u guys go back supporting the scum that scammed most of you anyway?

You don't have to give them any money, but millions of others will continue to use them so it's still good for bitcoin in the long run, though maybe we won't need any payment processors at all in the future.


Probably similar or slightly less than what they charge now.

If the fee is the same no one will care to use BTC  ::)

I'm not sure why the new thing is considering news for Bitcoin to be bad lol.  If this is real which I can't tell otherwise how could it be considered  bad?  I wonder if any  body would tell me what they say from 47 seconds of the the video to 50 seconds?  I'm not a huge fan of the video but I like that it does subtly grab my attention and it isn't over the top in too many ways.

edit: this post was made for the other paypal thread but is still relavant here.

If they do all their BTC exchanging between two Paypal parties off chain they they could implement charge backs by putting a say 30 day delay on letting someone remove BTC from their paypal account.

Since the news of Paypal come out the price stopped to drop, now it should began to rise.

Did you read the article about Bitcointree in cointelegraph? How many more months until paypal accepts btc you think?

I can find very little info of Braintree CEO bill ready.  the a business insider article Braintree CEO: We're Going To Beat Google, Amazon, Apple And Everyone Else In Payments! From 2013
And of course, bill ready's own and brain trees websites which makes my phone go into this really annoying interface.
Seriously though, does anybody have information about bill ready ceo

It will happen. And if it will, Paypal and Bitcoin talk will be full of complaints.

Who needs paypal and their stupid fees we should create our own bitcoin fiat exchange service!

So has anyone used the app breadwallet yet?

its a good news for bitcoin if its true
bitcoin price can rise up

Didn't they already intergrate it?  I don't  use any more.

I wonder when Paypal will actually integrate it into the wallet at paypal.com.   They seem to be testing the waters in the ways that they are allowing it right now.   They aren't making it too public, like if  you were just to log into your paypal account, you wouldn't have the slightest idea that they support BTC.

Hopefully everything comes off smoothly in this integration so that they can start picking it up on a larger scale.   This will fast track us to more mainstream adoption, which we all want.

I doubt this will happen. This would cause a huge security risk as all of a sudden there would be a much greater incentive to try to hack paypal then before as you could potentially steal the bitcoin held by them. It would also effectively take away a lot of the consumer protections that PP gives buyers who use PP (and use it because of the protections)